Is the most recent fraternization policy hindering camaraderie within units?

SGT(P) Daniel McBride — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 10:03:35 -0500

When I was lower enlisted, me and most of my platoon to include NCOs within the company used to hang out, bbq, party...etc on the weekend. We never had issues separations work from fun. In my personal opinion, built up trust and respect between us. It created more of a family level closeness and we operated amazingly in garrison as well as during deployment.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 13 at 2015 11:06 AM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:06:29 -0500

No, I actually got questioned because I frequently sat with a particular lower enlisted Soldier. The Soldier that they didn't want me sitting with, ultimately became my Soldier. You aren't allowed to even sit at the same table with lower enlisted without someone (namely other NCOs) getting sand in their.....

I can certainly see the importance of the fraternization policies, but who determines it? In my case, the NCO ( my other team leader) was angry that I sat with his Soldier.

Still don't give two craps, you are expected to die (if it comes to that) with these people, who says you can't dine and joke with them!!!

And I sat with a LTC, when he asked me to, a table full of Officers. It could have been argued that it was fraternization; most people are not going to challenge a Battalion Commander....this is all because he wanted me to go to West Point. Which in retrospect I should have, but I was going to the promotion board that same day or week. hindsight 20/20...

I've smoke hookah (flavored tobacco) with Officers, it isn't that big of a deal to me. I mean believe me, i've literally washed the blood of all ranks from my hands..In the end we are just people, and we all bleed the same color....

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Dec 13 at 2015 11:22 AM

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:22:46 -0500

No. Once I am through with this uniform, the connections I've made through the years will always be there for me, mentors or those that I've helped mentor. I know the boundaries of relationships, and would never jeopardize the professionalism of the United States Army. Professionalism is the key to minimizing incidents that affect mission readiness. Professionalism is the driving force that is generally missing in most issues regarding misconduct.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 11:49 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:49:33 -0500

Fraternization occurs when only specific cliques are involved and special favors for those that participate. Group outings are fine if everyone is included.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 12:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 12:04:08 -0500

Understand that the policy is designed to head off future conflicts of interest or the appearance of it. I fully support NCOs and enlisted interacting in a manner that boast esprit de corp and unit cohesion. On the flip side of the coin, a squad leader shouldn't be hanging out with junior enlisted "buddy" in the barracks playing call of duty. All soldiers should be treated equally and considered equal. If Officers, NCOs, and Junior Enlisted should be permitted to be at a BBQ, but the invitation has to be all inclusive. You cant invite one without another. Also it is important to remember that customs and courtesies apply in and out of uniform. Thats why this has become such an issue. Just because you take the uniform off after duty hours, does not permit an E4 to address an E5 by first name for example.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 3:02 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 15:02:25 -0500

When it became a problem (when I pinned SGT) I served as the designated driver. I personally never had any issues when serving as a DD, I can see where there could have been and such an arrangement might be like putting gas on a fire for some Joes/Janes.
Now as an OIC, we play at the bowling alley during lunch or have a BBQ (extended lunch) at work.