Jumpmaster or Pathfinder?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:50:01 -0400

Perspective from those elite few who have been to both the Jumpmaster and Pathfinder Courses, honestly which did you find required more focus? More difficult?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 7:12 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:12:50 -0400

Well, seems there are no takers on this one. Are there no Jumpmaster Pathfinders out there?

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Sep 13 at 2015 10:45 AM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:45:16 -0400

Jumpmaster was more difficult for me...I thought Pathfinder was a breeze but I'm pretty good at math so I didn't stress like some of the others when it came to those types of written tests. Both fun schools though...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 10:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:48:09 -0400

Only been to Pathfinder. They did have a JM class going on at same time. JM looked pretty painful.

Now if you want a comparison between Pathfinder and Master Gunner School...lol

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 10:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:55:03 -0400

For me, they both had their challenges. Overall i think pathfinder was harder due to the "force fed with a fire hose." 8 hours of classroom instruction followed by 3 days of practical and application. I went through the first pilot course for what they are teaching now. 2 weeks on the classroom and a week in the field. Jumpmaster was easy since doing the 1NANAS already. JMPI went easy for me "fast is slow, smooth is fast."
However to fully utilize the pathfinder skill you need to be both.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 11:16 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:16:21 -0400

Pathfinder. Without question. Someone asked me the other day: if I had to recertify either Pathfinder or Ranger school, which would I choose. I would do Ranger school a 100 times over before walking back into Pathfinder. That school sucked.

But I went in 2005 and it has changed significantly in recent years. Where I spend days/nights in Olsen Hall, writing out CARP charts trying to memorize everything, I am told they provide the reference now. And you're allowed to have a calculator.

Heck, I had to walk uphill, in the snow, just to get to class.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 11:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:29:11 -0400

As one who not only passed both courses, but later taught them, I feel they are equally tough. Pathfinder harder academic wise, jumpmaster harder physically (the sequence, being the biggest part of course).

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Sep 13 at 2015 1:52 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:52:01 -0400

While I am not a Jumpmaster, Pathfinder was the toughest course that I ever completed in my almost 25 years in the Army.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 2:09 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:09:39 -0400

They are both equally challenging. I had more self induced stress during JM school than from Pathfinder.

Pathfinder is more of a mental challenge as there is no physical stress. Also the hands on tests were in my opinion a piece of cake.

JM was both mental and Physical as there are both written and hands on test. All very difficult and stressful.

Now if you could imagine a course that combined both Pafthfinder and JM school with added stress, equipment, and tougher mathematical problems. Plus a challenging actions in the A/C practical exam; you would have Military Freefall Jump Master School!

That was a Challenge and a half!

RLTW!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 2:14 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:17 -0400

So, in my opinion, Jumpmaster is harder, but only because there is so much more variability. Most people fail JMPI, and that is where test conditions can vary to an astounding amount. I remember a 5'0 soldier having to JMPI a private that was 6'5. That's undoubtedly going to add time. There were plenty of people that I would trust JMPI'ing me today that failed out of my course due to luck.

Pathfinder was difficult, but I found it much easier having gone through JM first. Honestly, there is a huge selection bias. As someone in grad school (for math), doing the problems were much easier for me than for individuals who had not touched math since HS, etc.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Sep 13 at 2015 2:43 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:43:25 -0400

Jumpmaster! Why? Not because academics or painful circle rotations - those who have been know what I'm talking about- but because as a JM you are responsible of multiple lives.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Sep 13 at 2015 4:55 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:55:52 -0400

Jumpmaster hands down. 50% washout rate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 10:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:56:02 -0400

Well... Remember that one time I failed DZ's? Yes.

I think JM was MUCH easier.

Do you even pathfinder bro?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 6:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 18:54:24 -0400

I'd do Jumpmaster first. Get an introduction to CARP. Besides, being a JM is a huge responsibility that I believe you would excel at. Then onto Pathfinder. The graduate course of both JM and Air Assault.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 8:35 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:35:35 -0400

I went to Pathfinder School in 1997. It required more studying than undergraduate college courses. It was the amount of information that came at you in such a short period of time that made it difficult for me.
I went to the Jumpmaster Course in 2002 and I breexed through the course with one exception... JMPI. That was super difficult because of the time standard and limited amount of time to learn the correct sequence... And since I went to the Ft Bragg course (MTT) in Alaska, JMPI was last. Talk about pressure!!
In retrospect both courses are not easy. However the first one you attend would probably be the harder because there is information common to both courses. Make sense?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 9:11 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:11:10 -0400

My experience, Pathfinder was more difficult. I went to Jumpmaster after pfdr so I think the study habits I learned in pfdr help make jm school a bit easier to handle

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 9:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:40:28 -0400

While I personally have been to neither, I have spoken with a few of my NCOs who have been to both, and they said for them, Pathfinder required more focus and attention.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Sep 24 at 2015 10:30 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Thu, 24 Sep 2015 10:30:49 -0400

I taught Pathfinder School from 98-2000 at Benning. Also a JM from 93. Pathfinder was a lot more mentally demanding, but I think I have knuckle damage from rotating one jumper to the right during jumpmaster school!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 3:44 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 03:44:22 -0400

It depends how what type of person you are. If your a hands on type of person, then Jumpmaster school will be easier. On the opposite end, if you're a classroom style person, Pathfinder will be easier.

Response by SFC David Pratt made Jun 10 at 2016 12:53 AM

SFC David Pratt — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 00:53:07 -0400

I'm a 5WF7...... Both schools had their challenges, but I would say JM school was more difficult because of the stress you put on yourself with JMPI. The written tests at PF school were tougher. JM did have the oral Pre a Jump exam spitting out 7 pages of shit verbatim: but, by the time you get to JM school you should have had that memorized to get through pre-JM. Both schools were great and the instructors (Bragg for JM and Benning for PF) were professional subject matter experts. JM, hands down is a far greater responsibility. Remember, a JM who is not PF qualified can pull DZSO duties on a CARP drop, but a PF who is not JM qualified can not pull dzso duties with exiting paratroopers on carp, virs, etc...: only equipment.

Response by SGM Robert King made Jun 13 at 2016 12:37 PM

SGM Robert King — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 12:37:08 -0400

JM school was a tough school, and my study group was great we worked well together since we were all from the same SF Battalion. It was stressful like it should be. I found the Pathfinder school to be even harder because of the massive amounts of information thrown at me plus I didn't have any experience at all in sling loading anything.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2017 9:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 09:59:48 -0500

JM will come down to JMPI and Pathfinder is academically difficult across the board...I would give the edge to PFDR but not by much!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Nov 8 at 2017 10:42 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 10:42:29 -0500

My experience is limited to observing Jumpmasters in training and those instructing them. The Jumpmasters appeared to be required to understand the Army parachute(s), ballistics, geometry, physics, and weather as they relate to the science and art of getting paratroopers out of an aircraft and onto the ground safely at a prescribed location. Most of the Jumpmasters I met were E-6 or above soldiers of better-than-average motivation and discipline. Most were effective communicators and worked well with aircrew members.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2018 8:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 20:21:38 -0500

Never been ether, but I do know, Those Jump Masters always got us out of the aircraft, and those Pathfinders always got us on the DZ, even in the trees sometimes. Oh, not in Panama, just a tall Cane field. By the way, I had to get out of the 12foot tall cane area to take the picture.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 14 at 2018 10:07 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:07:59 -0500

For me- JM- 3 weeks to learn exact nomenclature, procedure, etc. Much of pathfinder allowed guides, etc and had picked up much during Air Assaults.

Response by SFC Michael Watkins, MPA/EM, CHPP, CJE made Mar 8 at 2018 2:07 AM

SFC Michael Watkins, MPA/EM, CHPP, CJE — Thu, 08 Mar 2018 02:07:18 -0500

I found that both required extreme attention to detail to complete the courses, but I find that being a Jumpmaster is more accelerating on a personal note. I though was able to perform more duties being a Pathfinder and was in the field a lot more.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2019 1:05 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 01:05:29 -0400

JM was harder, at least for me. I got pneumonia the first time and passed out in the circle, woke up in the hospital. The 2nd time time and sequence got me. I took me 3 tries to get through.
PF had it's own challenges and I found the hardest part to be inspection