Korean War Vet vs. Korean Defense Vet

2013-11-09T00:21:57-05:00

I think that since the Korean War has never officially been declared over that everyone that has been there in the last 60 years or so; should be designated a Korean War vet and decorated accordingly as opposed to being designated & decorated as a Korean Defense Vet. What do you all think?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2013 12:57 AM

2013-11-09T00:57:13-05:00

I would say that we are not actively at war with North Korea and that the Defense status seems to be more than fair. You do receive specific benefits for serving in South Korea because of the status. You are eligible for for the VFW after having only served in Korea. You receive the KDSM and an overseas tour credit. Having known several people who have served during the Korean War when they were actively at war, I cannot even consider comparing myself in this day and age to any of them who served so bravely, certainly a different level of recognition is more than deserved.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Nov 9 at 2013 7:25 AM

2013-11-09T07:25:41-05:00

I think that there is a huge difference between being in country during war time activities, and being in country 60 years after active hostilities have for the most part ceased, regardless of the official status.

I also think that anyone so concerned with medals and badges should reassess their reasons for being in the military.

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Nov 9 at 2013 11:05 AM

2013-11-09T11:05:21-05:00

Just to clarify some things: 1. I'm a civilian been out since 2012 2. I did not intend to downplay the service and sacrifice of anyone this is just a thought that crossed my mind once or twice that I felt like sharing that is all.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Mar 25 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-03-25T13:12:31-04:00

It depends when and where you were station in Korea!!!!! For those that were there from 1992 and on, might not understand what it was like before that.

I ran combat patrols in Korea in 83 and 87. Many others have ran them naturally since 1954, not including the Guard Posts (GP) and Observation Posts (OP) that were constantly man by our Troops till 1991. The American sector was in what was know for a long time as the Western Corridor.

At Camp Greaves which is on the north side of the Imjin-gak (river) till closed in 2004. Also, the temporary bases of Kitty Hawk, Liberty Bell, and Warrior base (names varied for same locations). Were used to run combat patrols, OPs, GPs, till 1991. Even after that, they were used at times for QRF and training.

So before you judged whether Korea is a combat zone or not, need to ask the old farts like me what it was like. Back in the late 60s, there were several altercations on the DMZ with the North Koreans. In fact, since after the Korean War this time period had some of the heaviest fighting in Korea. I have older friends that were there in 1954 and on, that would tell you about making contact more then once.

To many times as Americans, we don't look at history currently to make judgements. Also, we don't use history to learn from enough.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 26 at 2014 12:26 AM

2014-03-26T00:26:38-04:00

My father is a Korean war veteran and was, coincidentally, also there in the Camp Greaves area in 1976 during the Paul Bunyon event....Although he does not discuss much about his time there (or the Vietnam war) I'd assume he would not agree with (and neither do I) that our service there is the same as his during the Korean War.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 26 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-03-26T13:12:18-04:00

I was stationed in Korea from 1980 to 1982 and speaking from experience there were things that happened that never came to light in the civilian news media. I won't elaborate on any of them except to say that I lost a very close friend due to an exchange of unfriendly fire. And as has been pointed out in other places the Korean was has never actually ended which means that the war continues and in my opinion any member of our military who serves there now or will in the future and those of us from the past deserve to wear a combat patch on our right sleeve until they get off their collective asses and finalize a complete peace treaty that both sides can agree to.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Apr 3 at 2014 4:39 PM

2014-04-03T16:39:34-04:00

Here is a link to a well written story about life on the DMZ, just one small story! The gentlemen wrote it based on his experience in the 80s. In fact my time of my 1st tour overlaps his.

But this is one story to give some others how life was like on the DMZ! Seems that some think Korea has always been a vacation.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32602

A Visit Remembered

The Korean peninsula extends from the Asian mainland into the Pacific Ocean south and east, towards Japan. It's sometimes referred to as the “Land of the Morning Calm”. However, that's a misnomer...

Response by SGT Steve Williams made Apr 19 at 2014 11:21 AM

2014-04-19T11:21:08-04:00

I disagree. Korean 'War' Vets deserve recognition above and beyond what those of us who served after the war deserve. I am very proud to be a Korean 'Defense' Veteran, '69-'71 DMZ Camps Greaves, Dodge and Young.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2014 12:31 PM

2014-04-19T12:31:19-04:00

there needs to be a distinct separation between combat veterans of the Korean War and those who stood post way after the fact. You and I don't rate to be called Korean War vets!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 8:47 PM

2014-04-24T20:47:11-04:00

As with all things its a matter of where and when (like all long conflicts). Tell the guys that were there in 68 and 69 on the DMZ it wasn't a war (they will just laugh at you). Keep in mind the KDSM was finally created for a reason as well as the modification and expansion of the CIB criteria in Korea after 1954 through 1991 at least. Both the laws that created these awards are full of clear evidence that post 1954 duty is grossly misunderstood (for example over 40,000 cease fire violations and 1,200+ deaths in country since 1954). It's a can of worms and unless you have been there is best left alone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2014 7:26 AM

2014-04-25T07:26:25-04:00

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!
Going to. Korea for a year and surviving a Soju experience and evading juicy girls in no equates to the same turmoil our brethren went through.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Apr 25 at 2014 7:50 AM

2014-04-25T07:50:13-04:00

Gentlemen, there is a distinction of Korean War and Korean Defense! But also understand, for those that lack there history, the hostilities have never stopped on the DMZ. Men have been WIA and KIA since the Armistice was signed!

If you did not serve on the DMZ any time before 1991, I don't expect you to know what it was like, but it wasn't no cake walk by far! But many of you are making assumptions, based on current duties especially if you served in Seoul or TDC since 1991. Where the living conditions and standards are well advance then they were years back.

1983 was my first tour at Yong Ju Gol, just a mile off the DMZ. Our barracks then were q-huts with no latrines, nearest latrine was 50 feet away. Made it far in the lovely harsh winters at 0200. We had diesel heat, no A/C, no phones, no PCs, 1 freaking AFN channel to watch, no VCRS/DVRs,no Playstations, no Class 6, curfews were in place. Once we crossed Freedom Bridge, conditions were worst!

2009 my sons first tour in OEF as a damn grunt, he had a cell phone, PC, Xbox, internet! And he was running with the ANA......

And I still haven't gotten to what it was like to run combat patrols!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2014 7:55 AM

2014-04-25T07:55:58-04:00

Sorry young PFC Minchey, but I'm pretty sure most of us didn't join to get medals, we did it for the honor of serving. If you wanted medals you may have chosen to join in a career field that takes you to combat and volunteer for assignment to a deploying division.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 25 at 2014 10:42 AM

2014-04-25T10:42:38-04:00

Not just no, but HECK NO. I was not at "war" during my time in Korea. I had a bed, a tv, 3 hot meals, time to travel around and whatever else I wanted to do. That is nothing compared to the keys freezing their butts off on the same hills that I walked in the shadow of. I'm good with having the Korean Defense Service Medal. Leave it at that.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Apr 25 at 2014 11:42 AM

2014-04-25T11:42:13-04:00

Just so you know the Korean DMZ was an eligible zone for the Combat Infantry Badge from 1969 - 1994 if one happened to see action on their combat patrols or at an OP

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2014 12:08 PM

2014-04-25T12:08:37-04:00

Too answer the orginal question, I say no to be called a Korean War Vet. My first tour was on Camp Greaves from 95-96 and doing that time frame things were alot different then.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Apr 27 at 2014 9:25 AM

2014-04-27T09:25:30-04:00

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/dmz/p_dmz_dangerous_unpredictable.htm

Korean War Educator: Topics - DMZ: Dangerous and Unpredictable

Korean War Educator is a joint effort of civilians and veterans who are determined to establish and maintain a medium in which the general public can learn more about the Korean War.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Apr 27 at 2014 9:28 AM

2014-04-27T09:28:38-04:00

http://www.amazon.com/The-Fence-Walker-William-Holinger/dp/ [login to see]

The Fence-Walker: William Holinger: 9780887060243: Amazon.com: Books

The Fence-Walker [William Holinger] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Military Novel on the DMZ in Korea.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Apr 27 at 2014 2:16 PM

2014-04-27T14:16:03-04:00

http://24thida.com/stories_by_members/harman_life_as_a_peacekeeper_korea.html

Life As A Peacekeeper In Korea, by Joseph L. Harman, DMZ, Riots, Camp Casey, Camp Howze, Always...

This is the official website of the 24th Infantry Division Association. It contains information about the 24th infantry Divison's wartime activities, copies of selected Taro Leaf publications, our Reunions, its officers, TAPS information, many first hand stories by our members of their actions in the Korean War, WWII World War Two, Desert Storm, and many other types of information.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 11:19 PM

2014-05-02T23:19:54-04:00

Since there is no conflict happening (as of right now), you cannot declare yourself a Korean War Vet, you are simply a Korean Defense Vet. I have never been stationed there ( scheduled to go there in Mar 2015), but from the stories and other information from folks who have been stationed there after the war was over, has stated that it wasnt a easy assignment

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made May 13 at 2014 10:26 PM

2014-05-13T22:26:26-04:00

http://www.pinterest.com/brkeaster/ijmin-scout/

Ijmin Scout

Imjin Scout is a distinct 2ID soldier of the US Army. They conducted combat patrols inside the Korean DMZ between 1954 and 1999. There have been over 40,479 combat actions inside the DMZ. These incidents include patrol ambushes, attacks on UN guard posts, artillery and mortar barrages and barracks bombings. At least 1,239 U.S. personnel have been killed, 87 captured, tortured, and held prisoners with more than 2,300 Republic of Korea soldiers...

Response by PFC Eric Minchey made Jun 18 at 2014 11:13 AM

2014-06-18T11:13:33-04:00

For Everybody on this thread that says the War in Korea is over: http://news.yahoo.com/war-never-ends-between-koreas-001106834.html

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 26 at 2014 12:10 PM

2014-06-26T12:10:05-04:00

That's how the VFW sees it.....HOWEVER, my tours in Korea are nothing compared to the guys who actually had to beat back the North Koreans and Chinese. I may have been prepared to fight for every square inch of the penninsula, but those guys actually DID. Really no comparison.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 26 at 2014 12:31 PM

2014-06-26T12:31:44-04:00

My scariest time in Korea was literally at the end of my 1st tour. I was supposed to fly home on 9/11. Obviously that didn't happen. What did happen was the entire USFK went on lockdown and alert. MP set up TCPs at every gate, even the ones in Yongsan, and were in full battle rattle with live ammo. Hell even the KNP courtesy guards (the kids doing their mandatory service that they had stationed outside gates to keep protesters from harrassing soldiers) had traded in their body length billy clubs for body armor and M16 rifles.....WITH AMMO! We weren't sure if Kim Jong Il was going to try anything or not, but we were prepared...

Response by SSG James Doherty made Sep 11 at 2014 9:31 PM

2014-09-11T21:31:46-04:00

No. I can bring my family to Korea, I would never even contemplate bringing them to Afghanistan. This is why War vets are War vets and Defense vets are Defense vets.

Defense Vet and proud.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-10-01T12:51:52-04:00

I served in Korea in the late 90's while in I was in the Army. In retrospect it was a tougher duty station than being stateside but not horrible. I remember getting the Army overseas ribbon at the time which seemed to be appropriate for a short tour overseas. Now service over in Korea warrants the award of the KDSM? I'm not sure that is warranted or necessary for service in the ROK. To me it isn't even worth updating my DD214 to obtain. In no way does this warrant a medal in my book. In fact compared to the sacrifices Korean war vets faced a one year unaccompanied tour complete with barracks with 3 hots and cot is nothing.

Response by LCDR Kent Meyer made Oct 1 at 2014 1:14 PM

2014-10-01T13:14:12-04:00

Having served in the ROK and twice in Iraq the two AOs are not the same. Iraq is a wartime mentality and ROK is defensive operations, with it's own unique flavors, but the threat of hostilities is absent from most in Korea.

So No to modern day troops calling them Korean War vets, but the duty in many positions has high op-tempo and can have significant risk of harm.

Background, boots on ground all locations, and provided missile defense warning in country for ROK. nothing like seeing a real threat emerge with most people unaware.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 4:23 PM

2014-11-09T16:23:58-05:00

With a Ceasefire being in effect and no active war being fought, I say no. Hence the designation of a new ribbon. It makes sense. Kind of like the GWOT-E, GWOT-S, and after that Iraq Campaign.

Response by SFC David Jaxon made Oct 28 at 2015 9:49 PM

2015-10-28T21:49:51-04:00

I feel that the Infantry DMV vets should get more then a KDSM. Heck everone gets that over there. I would atlease like to see us DMZ vets that pulled the pattrols and maned the guard post and froze our buns off get a DMZ pin to put in the middle of the KDSM ribbon like the cluster is..

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 18 at 2015 8:57 PM

2015-12-18T20:57:18-05:00

Umm no. I have been to Korea a few times for short exercises ( not even enough to qualify for the Korean Defense Medal). With the exception of rare isolated instances there has not been anything that is close to what The Veterans of the actual War went through. You have a medal for Service already, don't water down the service of the actual combat Vets by giving everyone the medal they earned.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Dec 19 at 2015 11:25 AM

2015-12-19T11:25:11-05:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKX-mdvT7Jg

The 2nd Forgotten Korean War "Incidents" 1954 to 1991

“Incident” is another word for combat action on the DMZ. Our orders were to keep North Korea at bay without escalating these incidents into a larger war. The...

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 21 at 2015 11:15 AM

2015-12-21T11:15:39-05:00

Shrug, the V.F.W. now allows us to join if we served in Korea. I still have not joined .
We did get an attaboy ribbon though. Still have not applied for it.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Jan 19 at 2016 6:28 AM

2016-01-19T06:28:48-05:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKy4GR0eXXk

The 2nd Korean War (Incidents) - 50s/60s

Various articles and pictures from incidents that happen in Korea 50s and 60s, mainly up on the DMZ! Many who never served in Korea believe the War was over,...

Response by MAJ Michele Bretz made Nov 3 at 2017 2:55 PM

2017-11-03T14:55:02-04:00

The Korean War Veterans Association is trying to increase its membership since the average age now is around 84 and we are losing the combat veterans each day. Because under their charter, we are eligible to join (post-combat), I wonder how we can do this? I feel this is important because so much has happened since the Armistice and we are continuing to lose veterans to this day. Did you realize we lost 932 members per month during the combat period and we were only there 3 years!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 11:23 PM

2017-11-03T23:23:39-04:00

Disagree.
Adamantly.

Response by SSG Donald H "Don" Bates made Dec 14 at 2017 2:51 PM

2017-12-14T14:51:42-05:00

I get a bit upset that the Korean War is "The Forgotten War". I respect vets of all the preceding and following wars and conflicts but Korea has been left out. The Korean War Project by Hal Barker on Facebook does a great job.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 14 at 2017 5:26 PM

2017-12-14T17:26:33-05:00

There are many Korean war vets that would disagree with you.

Response by CPL Norman Ballard made Jan 8 at 2018 2:40 PM

2018-01-08T14:40:43-05:00

I enlisted in july 1955 in the Army Security agency ended may 1958 served in the fareeast, Korean Okanawa,Japan. Do I qualfy for Korean War vet

Response by SPC Jim Forest made Feb 9 at 2018 7:08 PM

2018-02-09T19:08:12-05:00

i was at camp liberty bell for 11 months in1983 1964 radar site 4 hell yes i agree

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Feb 9 at 2018 7:18 PM

2018-02-09T19:18:26-05:00

I was in Korea for 26 months (i keep saying 27 months but I looked at my DD214 and counted again) in 1968-1970. The term "post-armistice" Korea was tossed about.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 9 at 2018 9:16 PM

2018-02-09T21:16:45-05:00

I did three consecutive tours on the DMZ. Two in Vietnam. Not sure. The DMZ could flare up at any time and there are plenty of opportunities to get shot. I know people who were so far into Cam Ranh Bay they couldn't see the gate. not sure

Response by LTC John Griscom made Feb 10 at 2018 9:32 PM

2018-02-10T21:32:01-05:00

Technically, it hasn't been a war since the truce was signed, although there are still incidents with the North Koreans.
I was stationed 20 miles south of the DMZ in 1966 provided support to the South Korean police who were looking for for infiltrators headed to Seoul.
Made an error in judgment when I let my KATUSA 1SG go to the Joint Security Area with us. Thought he was going to attack the North Korean guards.

Response by CPL Eugene Cody made Jan 24 at 2019 12:43 AM

2019-01-24T00:43:11-05:00

i agree. i served during the korean war overseas with the first cav div 8th regiment in Japan for 18 months. we wre trained to be combat ready in case we had to return to
korea. shouldnt i be classified as a korean war vet?

Response by CPL Eugene Cody made Jan 24 at 2019 12:49 AM

2019-01-24T00:49:26-05:00

i agree eugene cody

Response by CPL Eugene Cody made Apr 2 at 2019 9:21 AM

2019-04-02T09:21:52-04:00

i agree

Response by SGT Walter Ingram made Jul 28 at 2020 11:42 PM

2020-07-28T23:42:33-04:00

Korea War Veterans are individuals who served during the Korean war. Their medals indicate service during a active war period when no ceasefire was imposed. (Examples: World War I&II, Vietnam, Desert Storm etc.) Korea Defense Veterans are individuals who served during a active ceasefire but engagements with enemy combatants continued. It also clarifies during the ceasefire servicemembers maintain a abnormally high degree of readiness. Hostilities (violations of the ceasefire) cause lives to American service members and their allies. (Examples of defense detachments: Germany (West Berlin), Berlin, Kosovo Defense etc.) The Korea Service Medal is considered a campaign medal. Under the law Congress issued a Campaign Medal called Korea Defense Service Medal. One's issued for the war, and the other is for the defense during the ceasefire agreement. Both medals give its wearer protective status and 5 points veteran's preference. The treaty was suppose to be completed 30 days after the ceasefire was signed in 1953. Korea War Veterans (Assoc.) were instrumental in passing the Korea Defense Service Medal. Other veteran associations were also involved in pushing for this bill's signing. The KDSM attest to the fact the war is only under a ceasefire. By merging the medals the messaging would be lost. The right message is sent with the current structure of these two medals.

Up until 2008, Korea tours were limited to 12 month tours:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/04/washington/04gates.html#:~:text=His%20endorsement%20adds%20momentum%20to%20a%20policy%20shift,because%20South%20Korea%20is%20considered%20a%20combat%20zone.

I served from 1990-1991!

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