Law Enforcement vs Military: Effectiveness in Riot Control

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:37:41 -0400

Protests can quickly turn violent. Riots are becoming more and more common as a means to counter perceived injustices at the hands of law enforcement. Law Enforcement was found lacking in the LA riots. They expanded most of resources at an unsustainable rate. The National Guard would eventually be called in to control the situation. Currently we are seeing the National Guard being mobilized in mass in response to the riots in Baltimore. How this this play out?

Are soldiers more able to handle such a chaotic situation? Do soldiers have a better understanding of the implications in the use of force? Or do civilians only focus their aggression on law enforcement?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 28 at 2015 7:13 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 19:13:57 -0400

I would say the answer is "it depends." It all depends on the situation, the resources available (police) and who is better trained in that area to handle riots.

Riot control is part of law enforcement, which we (they) all need to be ready to execute. Military Police units train on this. National Guard units even more so, as their mission on most days can be to reinforce local law enforcement. What I am at a loss for, is why in Ferguson, and then in Baltimore, these units were on site in advance. I would say the best the solution is mobilize the guard early and have them ready.

Riot control involves cordon off areas, stopping and dispersing the protesters, and apprehending all those who violate laws.

I also know there is a huge concern over looking heavy handed when dealing with rioters, when heavy handedness by police, or alleged heavy handedness, police tread lightly in order to prevent making the situation worse.

In that regard, the National Guard (if properly trained and equipped) might be the best first line of defense against rioters...

Certainly no easy solutions here.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Apr 28 at 2015 7:42 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 19:42:17 -0400

1LT Eric Rosa, years ago an Airborne Soldier told of a tour with the British Army -and going somewhere with them. He managed a ride w/ the Brits to a riot in some 3rd world country. The Brits formed into riot formation and went down the street to the problem area. The lead troublemaker was identified to the designated sniper. One round, troublemaker down, rioters fled the scene!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 28 at 2015 8:09 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:09:13 -0400

Escalation of force won't work. Overwhelming shows of force will.

The issue we have now is that police are trained to "escalate up" to the appropriate level of force, which unfortunately will create a "death spiral" situation until we need to call in the National Guard.

That is Overwhelming Force. Rioters when encountering Overwhelming Force will stop dead in their tracks.

Unfortunately, when you go from Civilian Protesters (even Rioters) to Military Riot Control, you run into a Public Affairs nightmare. The perception is just not a good one. Sure, it may have been "necessary" but all the photos show is a Tactical Force standing there in "our Neighborhoods keeping the People down."

So.. of course the National Guard is more capable of handling the situation... but just because they are more capable, doesn't mean they are better suited to do it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 8:45 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:45:33 -0400

Don't you think this undermines their authority and kids look at this shit? Might be the wrong idea to post this.

Response by SSG Jackie Todd made Apr 29 at 2015 8:36 AM

SSG Jackie Todd — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:36:46 -0400

I am a National Guard Soldier and a Deputy Sheriff. Civilians involved in a riot do not just focus on the police. Any agent of the government becomes a target. For example the Los Angeles riots fire fighters responding to calls were shot at. The National Guard responds to assist civil authorities not to take control. Military formations just add to the number of boots on ground because the cops are outnumbered from the start and in a riot numbers count. I do believe the mere sight of heavily armored military responding to civil unrest brings the oh shit factor to the law breakers. The ons just having their fun that are not so committed to the cause go home. The committed ones my continue their futile resistance but the battle is already one when the majority of the group retreats.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 8:54 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:54:04 -0400

Most, if not all, police departments get minimal training when it comes to riot control. Here's what we did:
Alright guys, these are the helmets you will wear. Notice they have face shields on them. That's so you don't get anything on your face. You'll also be carrying these plastic shields.
Now our positions will be "x". We will wait until the Major or Chief tells us to move it. Remember to hold your shields up. We will make sure to get them to you before you go out.

We didn't go over group movement or anything. Even basic group movement would've been beneficial. We simply projected an air of weakness & ineptitude that those we were trying to 'control' recognized instantly & fed off of.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 29 at 2015 9:51 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:51:45 -0400

National Guard for riot control?
What could possibly go wrong?

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 3 at 2016 5:27 AM

SFC George Smith — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 05:27:20 -0400

I remember In Basic training we all went thru 1 day of "Civil Disturbance Training" the National Guard and Reserve personnel went 6 hours additional training on 4 consecutive weekends ... just for the basics in the 70's before they even got to their units and now they actually have Civil disturbance Training ... (or did when i retired) , where they send entire units during both Drill weekends and annual Training (Summer Camps)... Most National Guard Units were quite proficient in "Riot Control"