Leadership when did it become self service ?

SFC(P) Israel Arroyo — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 19:21:45 -0400

When did it become ok for my fellow NCOs to hold top performing soldiers back from military schools? What would be the recommendation to fix this? Both of us are SFC but he is the acting 1SG.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 7:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 19:28:40 -0400

I know at least where I came from, it was people worrying about qualifying them in something, then losing them to some HQ to fill a slot.

Response by SGT Brandon Bergeron made Sep 8 at 2015 7:30 PM

SGT Brandon Bergeron — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 19:30:52 -0400

Should ask him why is he holding those soldiers back and excelling in there careers for bettering themselves.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 7:37 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 19:37:07 -0400

I'm not tracking that it is currently okay to hold back top-performing Soldiers from schools. But I imagine, since you posted this, that you're experiencing just that.

Without understanding the context of your grievance, I would always recommend talking with the individual and trying to understand their point of view. If that doesn't work, utilize the next higher echelon to fix something.

If you have an issue with your 1SG, same rank or not, talk to them. Most problems can be solved through meaningful dialogue. If you still feel slighted, talk to your CSM.

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Sep 8 at 2015 8:01 PM

SMSgt Tony Barnes — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:01:13 -0400

True leadership never did.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 8:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:05:43 -0400

When The Creed of The Non-commissioned Officer became something to memorize and regurgitate for Boards... And not a CREED, Charge and Responsability!

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Sep 8 at 2015 8:06 PM

MAJ Jim Steven — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:06:34 -0400

this is why I believe we should be able to question orders and directives (understand there is always time, etc).
if the why isn't obvious, you should be able to explain in about 2 sentences or less.
if its, "because I said so" or, "Im in charge" then you are a failure.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 8 at 2015 9:04 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 21:04:04 -0400

That's the culture the Army is breeding. When you create a "Hunger Games" style system where everyone has to have a better ERB than the guy next to him or risk going home, you're going to breed cut throat'ness.... It's not smart to help prop your peers up when that little push you gave them may be the thing that promotes them while you get shown the door. It's a battle of who looks better on paper now. May the odds be ever in your favor...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 9:38 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 21:38:59 -0400

The first thing I would ask you is to look at is the term "TOP Performing Soldiers" as that is a realitive term.

What may seem like a top performer to one really may not be to another or to the Army for that matter. Second think of talent management... The right person for the right task/job at the right time.

As a PSG your job is to manage your Soldiers and develope them with the mission being held first. Like most things in the Army, Soldiers may perceive schools as entitlements. Counsel them IOT change their perception. Motivate them to work for what they want from the Army.

Ask your 1SG what you need to do in order to get your Soldiers into schools and why these schools are beneficial to the unit.

Show your 1SG that you are here to help him solve problems and not around to create more. You should also encourage your Soldiers to attend Ranger school and NCOES! The Army is sending a clear message about those courses importance. (Think
STEP)

I am sure there are other sides to this story. Regardless use this as a lesson and grow from it. Your 1SG maybe drinking from the fire house at this point.

Last don't sell yourself short by pulling yourself from an operational PSG position so quickly. As a newly promoted SFC you should work to achieve 24 mos of consecutive and successful PSG time.

RLTW!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 11:34 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 23:34:33 -0400

I'm from the outside looking in, but I was always taught that you never deny a training opportunity ever. Sending someone to a PME school or a tech school should be an opportunity that the entire unit can benefit from. Relying on the same select individuals to get the job done only restricts everyone else from knowing how to execute that task, and that is more detrimental to the unit than letting the best go away for a while. Schools should be considered an investment, not a burden to put off to the side.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 12:50 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 00:50:39 -0400

Happens alot usually when they dont like the soldier or have a personall vendetta against him, OR hes a top performer and go to guy and without him everything would crumble. Or in the case of some leaders are worried that the soldier wont pass/too close to failing like saying under 300 APFT score and he wants a Ranger school slot. CYA!!! One instance happened to me twice when I wanted to switch battalions and actually do my MOS. The response was emotional as if I were insulting then.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 9 at 2015 12:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 12:47:31 -0400

Talk to them about the importance of schools. Get it on paper and tell the NCOs to justify their actions pertaining to high achieving soldiers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 12:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 12:48:19 -0400

SFC Arroyo,

I think that as subordinate, peer or leader situations like these call for a direct interaction between the individual committing the "wrong-doing" and the individual noticing it. Let's be honest one persons perspective may not be that of another. He/she may not even realize the wrong that they are committing. However, be mindful of the fact the also hold a duty position over you and he's "earned" that respect. So, of course be tactful as I'm sure that you are already tracking. I hope this helps and I would like to know how it turned out if you chose to use my approach.

Response by SSG William Teague made Sep 10 at 2015 6:44 PM

SSG William Teague — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:44:19 -0400

Well warrior I know that old school doesn't work anymore but If your fellow NCO has any character and integrity, he would be open to some feedback without getting his hackles up. For God's sake, we NCO's are the true grit and backbone of the Armed Forces, but this is a fellow Senior NCO. You should be able to have these conversations privately with no harm, no foul Good luck!