...Loopholes within our Army Regulations and guidelines? Educate.

2014-04-22T18:56:50-04:00

Please enlighten us with what you've encounter in order to properly prepare and confront it. Thank you.

During my UPL course, I've notice a few loopholes within the Army's AR 600-85. I will mention one (as some will use this info for the wrong reasons), if Soldiers want to DESPERATELY leave the Army...what keeps them from doing drugs and voluntarily asking for a drug test? Knowing that they will have positive results.

Under the Limited Use Policy, if self-referred, the policy limits the characterization of discharge to "Honorable".

AR 600-85 Chap 10-12

"e. If the command is made aware of a
Soldier’s illegal drug use through the Soldier’s self-referral and admissions,
the requirement to initiate separation proceedings pursuant to the appropriate
enlisted or officer separation regulation will not apply. The unit commander
may initiate a separation action; however, the information is protected by the
Limited Use Policy."

"a. Unless waived under the circumstances listed in
paragraph 10–13d (if there’s enough Limited Use evidence of improper introduction) of
this regulation, Limited Use Policy prohibits the use by the government of
protected evidence against a Soldier in actions under the UCMJ or on the issue
of characterization of service in administrative proceedings. Additionally, the
policy limits the characterization of discharge to “Honorable” if protected
evidence is used.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Apr 22 at 2014 9:12 PM

2014-04-22T21:12:16-04:00

Fort Carson is probably going to become a real popular assignment...

Response by SFC Josh Jackson made Dec 30 at 2014 11:53 PM

2014-12-30T23:53:17-05:00

SSG Parra, what specifically is your question? Are you wondering what to do about Soldiers so desperate to get out that they deliberately pop hot? Or are you concerned with the larger issues of vaguely worded regulations, subject to interpretation?

Personally, if one of my Soldiers is hell-bent on getting out, I try to help them go. The sooner they're gone, the sooner I can focus more of my attention on the ones who want to stay in. Does that mean I'll suggest illegal ways for them to end their careers? Certainly not. but I won't try to sway or rehabilitate an adult who's mentally checked out. They want to go? Fine with me. They want to ruin their lives in the process? That's sad; Push them through ACAP and get them back to the house.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 1:41 AM

2014-12-31T01:41:23-05:00

SFC

couldn't say it better myself

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 2:17 AM

2014-12-31T02:17:09-05:00

Well going through regulation, even if they self-refer, they still must successful complete the rehabilitation program. The Commander, should advise the Soldier, that they can still be separated due to inability or refusal to participate in, cooperate in, or successfully complete the program for one of the following reasons:

a) There is lack of potential for continued Army service and rehabilitation efforts are no longer practical; or,
b) Long-term rehabilitation is necessary and you are transferred to a civilian medical facility for treatment.

Keep in mind, according to AR 635-200, initiation of separation proceedings is required for soldiers designated alcohol/drug rehabilitation failures. As for the type of discharge, it may be General Under Honorable Conditions. The Army doesn't want to waste time and money on a Soldier who doesn't really want help or a Soldier that isn't worth keeping anyway. Also if a rehab failure occurred, the Soldier gets a DD214 with an RE-3 or RE-4 code and the separation program designator (SPD) code could end up being JPC -Drug Rehabilitation Failure or JPD-Alcohol Rehabilitation Failure. The linchpin is successful completion of the rehab program and gets an honorable discharge.

Whether its post traumatic stress disorder, marriage or financial problems, or substance abuse; Soldiers seem to have trouble admitting they have a problem and seeking help for it; hell, most of us won’t even go on sick call unless we think we are dying. We are concerned about repercussions to our careers and what our leaders and our Soldiers will think of us. The Limited Use Policy was written to provide Soldiers who have a problem with drugs or alcohol a way to get help without having to worry about their careers. Soldiers can be pretty slick and they may try to fool everybody. Careful examination can determine if the Soldier is a "drug abuser" or "drug dependent".

So if Soldiers want to "play the game" thinking they'll get over, tell them about the consequences of failing rehab.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2017 10:30 AM

2017-09-06T10:30:27-04:00

Hi my name is Roy orozco and I was just wondering what are the army regulations on weapons qualification? I'm an 11bravo but was kicked out of the line because I can't zero my weapon or conduct any training exercise at night due to my very poor eye sight. I was just wondering what the regulations are for a person who can't zero and if it's allowed to use another person's weapon to qualify and not your own because you can't zero.

Response by SSG Jb King made Sep 19 at 2017 1:29 AM

2017-09-19T01:29:03-04:00

There is a reason the military will not allow anyone to simply resign, think about it our military lower enlisted rasnks would dissapear, the image a recruiter gives a recruit and the harsh reality of military life are often very different. The military knows this routinley happens in recruiting process but turn a blind eye , they just want boots filled and have learned that numbers matter and although some take those BIG steps to get out any way they can, most stay even though miserable due to peer pressure, and cohersion from command i.e. the retoric of " what are you going to do when you get out", or " you will never have all these benefits in civilian world", or even the best one " you can get 13,000 to reenlist for 4 years " in any situation the numbers speak for themselves, the vast majority leave the military after 4 years so if they were able to quit at any time like a cavillian job ? My money is on less than 20% staying over 1 year, So why blame the ones who just do what it takes to not be miserable? If it were such a great experiance and job then the military would a work at will occupation like any other, but uncle sam knows that it is not, knows it causes divorce,alcoholism,ptsd,etc etc although military is neccessary , taking better care of the military is even more neccessary i.e. better pay, better qua lity of life, shorter deployments etc etc..