My NCO's successfully intervened in two attempted suicides. Both times the Soldiers were armed. Is the Soldiers Medal warranted?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:29:09 -0500

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 15 at 2016 8:35 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:35:52 -0500

I believe I've seen NavComs for interventions before. The Soldier's/etc Medal is a Valor Medal of a non-Combat nature, which is not quite in the same vein as an intervention. I've known one recipient of the Navy & Marine Corps Medal who was recognized for a grenade pit incident. Having weapons involved might escalate things, but I just don't know.

http://www.pendleton.marines.mil/PendletonNews/NewsArticleDisplay/tabid/5440/Article/547424/marine-receives-navy-and-marine-corps-commendation-medal.aspx

Marine receives Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal

Lt. Col. Kevin Prindiville presented the Navy and Marine CorpsCommendation medal to Lance Cpl. Anthony Kelly Oct. 29, for Kelly’s actions inthe line of duty.Kelly saved the life of an unresponsive

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Feb 15 at 2016 10:14 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:14:15 -0500

I think this is going to be a hard one to prove. Were the armed soldiers threatening the people who intervened? Did they place themselves in harms way in order save another person? Because the threat was also the victim, that is going to be tough to justify. Also, if they weren't being threatened (i.e. was the person pointing the gun at them or threatening to shoot them) then its going to be hard to prove they put themselves in imminent danger.

Response by PVT Robert Gresham made Feb 16 at 2016 6:16 AM

PVT Robert Gresham — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 06:16:29 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, a lot is going to depend on the actual circumstances. The Army differentiates between a "suicide attempt", and a "suicidal gesture". In a suicidal gesture, the person involved usually wants to get the attention of someone (often due to depression, or other causes), and can be "talked down" by reminding him that the world is not really ending just because his/her life sucks at the moment.

A suicide attempt, on the other hand, involves a person actually doing bodily harm to him/herself. Really taking action to end their life.

It is difficult to prove that the Soldier involved was really going to commit suicide without the NCOs involvement, and that it was not merely a call for help on the part of the SM. Of course, it is an NCOs job to listen, and to keep up with the well being of his Soldiers. It's just a part of pinning those stripes on.

I have only seen one award for this sort of action during my career, and it for an NCO who actually found a kid hanging in his room by a belt. The NCO performed CPR and managed to bring the Soldier back. I think that some Commanders would expect this kind of action from an NCO before recommending him/her for an award like the Soldiers Medal.

Response by 1SG Eric Espino made Feb 16 at 2016 7:17 AM

1SG Eric Espino — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:17:13 -0500

SSG Sopczak,
I agree with Robert Gresham that it's hard to determine the justification, however, if you believe you have the justifications. My recommendation would to write it up and submit it. It's understandable that Commanders may believe that it's an expectation but if you seen previous social media and Army Times a First Sergeant received a ARCOM for doing her job.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2016 9:00 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:00:52 -0500

I have seen the ARCOM given as a spot award for this type of action and I think it would be warranted in this case. The Soldier's Medal is for heroism and the like.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2016 11:41 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:41:17 -0500

SSG,
You will have an easier time justifying an Achievement, possibly a Commendation medal for the events. Proof for the bullet statements will be key. Personally, it is every soldier's responsibility to look out for their team members. It's in our Warrior Ethos. Which means exercising personal courage to stop another soldier from harming themselves is part of our required duties. I probably wouldn't write an award for these events considering it is part of our normal duties, especially in this era in the Army. A coin would be fitting.
-MSG Reeve

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 16 at 2016 12:41 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:41:38 -0500

Can you illuminate for us how he got there in time to save them?

Response by Sgt Paul McCarthy made Feb 16 at 2016 2:11 PM

Sgt Paul McCarthy — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:11:15 -0500

Unless there was an inherent danger to oneself, it doesn't merit the award. Merely saving a life doesn't warrant it. However, the act itself does merit an award of some sort. ARCOM seems appropriate.

Response by CW3 Michael Haugen made Feb 16 at 2016 2:46 PM

CW3 Michael Haugen — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:46:18 -0500

No I would not think so, nor would I have recommended such an award unless the suicidal soldier was trying to take out others in the process.

Response by CMSgt Lloyd French made Feb 16 at 2016 2:48 PM

CMSgt Lloyd French — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:48:58 -0500

Wayne Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
With that said, I recommend you submit the write-ups citing the "voluntary risk of life" by the NCO intervening and evidence of mortal danger of the suicidal person. If all else fails, perhaps the approving authority will "downgrade" the award to a commendation (or achievement) medal which would still recognize and reward the heroic act. In my career, I was involved in three life-saving acts--two of which involved entering burning structures (I'm not a cop or fireman). No Airman's Medal was awarded...only two commendation medals and one achievement medal.

Response by Sgt Ronnie Mack made Feb 16 at 2016 4:14 PM

Sgt Ronnie Mack — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:14:38 -0500

Not sure of the whole story, but if your NCO saved a suicidile person(s) twice. Then my cover comes off to them!

Response by SFC Raymond Thibault made Feb 17 at 2016 3:57 AM

SFC Raymond Thibault — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 03:57:36 -0500

Hell Yes They are Heros and saved a Life.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2016 10:16 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:16:39 -0500

In order to meet the criteria for the Soldier's Medal, the danger needs to be to the Soldiers who intervened, not the suicidal Soldier(s). That will need to be borne out by witnesses. I think a case can be made, if the circumstances support it.

What draws my attention is that you have had not one, but two attempts involving armed Soldiers? That screams out that there is a problem in your unit. I would be taking a very hard inventory, if I were there.

Response by SSG Jesse Cheadle made Feb 17 at 2016 3:01 PM

SSG Jesse Cheadle — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 15:01:40 -0500

I agree with 1SG Healy. I would first focus my attention on the morale and welfare of the Soldiers. I would assume, I know, that a command climate or sensing session has taken place. I would hope that the issue has visibility from the top. That would have had quick CCIR's sent to the top in the units I had been assigned to.

So far as the Soldiers Medal, in order to have this viewed appropriately and not to take away from the issues, submission for review and approval will be a timing issue. Once the smoke has cleared and the knee jerk reactions have subsided, I would raise the issue of commendation for the intervening NCO (s). Lastly, all circumstances surrounding these two incidents will be brought to light upon a successful investigation and searching for facts won't be hard. I hope that makes sense.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Feb 17 at 2016 5:07 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 17:07:07 -0500

Hell yes, now you have to ask him if he is interested in receiving and ARCOM, because given the sensitive nature the NCO might refuse and also some CO are also reluctant given privacy issues and the need to maintain this an act of the heart. Be cautious of your NCO needs too.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2016 5:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 17:37:39 -0500

Read AR 600-8-22...

Response by COL Ted Mc made Feb 18 at 2016 3:22 PM

COL Ted Mc — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:22:56 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member - Staff; Tough call. It would really depend on the specifics of the situation and the intervention.

On the other hand, you owe both of the NCOs a beer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 1:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 13:15:45 -0500

no...that's what you're supposed to do as an nco...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 1:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 13:22:19 -0500

No. That's what any good NCO should do.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2017 9:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 21:39:41 -0400

I received a Soldiers Medal as a young SPC in 1996 for pulling out some young men out of the water after their vehicle went into a river. Anyone would have done it. I didn't think it was heroic, I just was the first on the scene. I just happened to have over 50+ witness who saw it from the river bank and bridge and wrote statements that went up with the packet.

Later on in my career I was actually embarrassed to talk about it because I felt it was no big deal. I got a lot of attention at Class-A inspections and at later ASU inspections. I actually didn't want to talk about it because I felt it wasn't that impressive. I never discussed it and I was always introverted when it came to my own personal accomplishments during my entire career.

I even staggered my ribbon rack to "hide" it underneath the lapel of my Class-A & ASU jacket!

I am not trying to diminish the award or anyone who ever earned it. Please understand that.

I just retired and this may sound selfish but I did get a 10% increase in my retirement pay for being awarded the SM. That was very nice.

I remember a very respectful senior NCO tell me early in my career that you can put all your awards in an empty coffee can and trade them for a cup a coffee when you retire. Let's just say I can have free coffee for life now.