NCOERS/OERs

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:27:39 -0400

How many of you have seen Officers and NCOs PCS without their evaluation. This goes back to Counseling. If Counseling is done correctly then writing his/her evaluation should not be a problem. What do you think.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 2:48 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:48:53 -0400

Evaluations are not due to HRC until 90 days after the thru date of the report. Report thru dates are sometimes the day the Soldier leaves the unit; sometimes the thru date is the date of report to the new unit; sometimes the thru date is something else. If we want folks to PCS with their evaluations, then we need to change the regulation to make the reports due to HRC by the day the Soldier departs the previous post. But the reason the reports aren't due to HRC until 90 days after the thru date is so that they can be written AFTER the rating period so as to take into account all performance during the rating period. The current system completely subverts this process, with many units (and all the units I've served in) making reports due to the senior rater 30 or 60 or 90 days before the thru date. Thus, I don't believe that actually writing the evaluation is the issue; the issue is the process and the 90 days given by regulation to have the signed evaluation back to HRC.

I do agree, though, that if counseling is done correctly that writing an evaluation is simple. But how many units really do counseling at all? I'd assess that at the small unit level (say, company and below), unit leaders have a vested interest in conducted counselling correctly. That vested interest is that senior leaders make counselling a priority for these small units (and, most of the time, an inspectable item). But I'd also assess that, say, above the company level, counseling simply just isn't done, or if it is, at least isn't done correctly. Example: I've been a major since December 2009. That's 4.5 years. I've been counselled once (an initial counseling from a new rater); and even that was not done correctly. In my last operational unit as a captain and a company commander, it was expected that my unit would conduct counselling (and we tried our best), but I was never counselled by my senior rater and was counselled only about 3 times by my rater (initial counseling, OERs). I'd have to go back and look at what the regulation requires for counseling for periodic counseling for officers, but I'm guessing its more than once a year.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 3:15 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 03:15:41 -0400

1SG,

I think you are 100% correct if the SM rater keep up their end of the deal by doing the DA 2166-8-1 each quarter the NCOER writs its self (at least makes it a lot easier). When a SM PCS’s I think getting their NCOER is a lot harder because most units will just forget all about if the SM is gone.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 6:45 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 06:45:14 -0400

It's not always counseling. Sometimes commands simply don't care.

For example, my all-time crappiest eval was 10 months after it was due, and I had to bug my rater and senior the entire time -- to include calling them repeatedly after they later deployed to AFG -- to even get the rating done. Despite being "left-justified" on the check boxes, it was a rambling and incoherent mess that completely ignored the suggested language I wrote to try and make it easier for them (and that said the exact same thing but in a not stupid way). It was them intentionally sticking it to me for having the nerve to expect my rating done in a timely manner. (Caveat: this was a USAR rating, and Reserve Officers are notorious for not being good at evals. I've had to train myself on doing it right, because my "mentors" didn't. Even for the Reserve, though, the incompetence of this one was stunning.)

Second example: My wife's first NCOER, where they simply put it off for months until I coached her on writing her own and submitting it to them for signature. That was finally enough to get action, but then when an admin error got it kicked back they weren't even aware for months (because they never checked). Then, when re-submitting, they tried to change the rating chain, which got it rejected again. I helped my wife "hack" the form to correct the original error, then she submitted it through the new unit, and I showed her how she could track it herself online.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 7:36 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 07:36:49 -0400

I ensured that none of my NCOs left the company without an NCOER. As a First Sergeant, I required that the support form was included along with the NCOER. Not only is it the responsibility of the rater to counsel his/her NCO, it is also the personal responsibility of the rated NCO to ensure he/she is being properly counseled by the first line supervisor. Great question 1SG Garner.

Response by SFC Scott Carroll made Aug 11 at 2014 10:28 AM

SFC Scott Carroll — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 10:28:43 -0400

1SG, I know when I was doing NCOERs for my squad leader the biggest problem we had was when the BN S-1 would send it back for changes multipul time. It was like they didn't read the whole thing and as soon as they found something they thought need to be change they would send it back. Changes get made and re-submitted they would send it back to correct something else. Now we had to send a printed copy and one on a flash drive. If it was something as simple as a period, why couldn't they just put it in? But this would cause NCOERs to not be completed and ready for SM signiture prior to PCSing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 2:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:12:45 -0400

I've had to PCS before without my NCOER. I didn't like it one bit. You're right if the Officer/PSG are doing their jobs with the counseling, or even half way paying attention to what their troops are doing the evaluation pretty much writes itself.