NCOES - Check the box?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:06:37 -0400

I just completed a one month long resident ALC course. I was not satisfied with this course at all. I am hoping that other MOSs are having different experiences and are actually taking something from the course. Has NCOES become a "check the box" requirement? Are Soldiers benefiting from attending these courses? Are there any leadership skills being brought back to units?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 8:43 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:43:23 -0400

My wife recently returned from an NCOES (I'll be honest- I'm not sure which one; She's a SSG). Apparently there was a lot of opinion by people at the course that it was a "Check The Box" course, and was basically a waste of time.

I asked her to describe what she learned from the class, and after a few minutes of thought she was able to rattle off a list of little things -- all of them minor, but also all useful. She was also able to point out quite a few things that she already knew, but that others didn't. I got the impression that the course was an attempt to baseline; it's intended to make sure that everyone meets a minimum.

I've seen that tendency with a lot of military courses, both enlisted and officer. The mandatory ones are gates, designed to only let through those who "meet" the standard. There will be some who struggle, some who learn, and some who know everything going in. Your mileage may vary for any particular course, but if you try to remember what the Army's trying to do it makes sense.

So stop thinking of "check the box" as a bad thing. It's a chance to excel, and you just might learn something new!

Response by MSG Cassandra Wilds made Aug 7 at 2014 8:53 PM

MSG Cassandra Wilds — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:53:33 -0400

I am a retired MSG (retired in 2013). I would have to agree with you that none of the NCOES courses I attended prepared me to step into the shoes of becoming an NCO or for that matter a Senior Noncommissioned Officer. For me, it was something you had to do in order to get promoted. I hope the Army will focus more on leadership than what was taught when I went (thumbing through textbooks and tabbing the pages with the answers). I was just having a conversation with a retired 1SG and he said the same thing. An NCO, unless he/she has a really good mentor, is just thrown into supervisory positions and leadership positions. That's not fair to the Soldier.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 10:24 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 22:24:13 -0400

I believe it might be different for each MOS. Also, what you generally put into it is what you will get put of it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 12:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 00:41:03 -0400

Much of Army training is "check the box". In my opinion by the time a NCO attends NCOES they SHOULD be performing the actions they are in school learning. The NCOES should be used as a reenforcement tool. I am currently in SLC (graduating in 7 day) and most of what I am learning I have been doing before attending SLC. However, I have made contacts that I would not have made had I not attended SLC.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 2:17 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 02:17:48 -0400

I like the spin that MAJ Private RallyPoint Member put on it. If you view NCOES as a baseline, a validation if you will, then things begin to make more sense. For me, PLDC (WLC) did teach/enhance my tactical skills as it relates to being a squad leader. But how to be a leader, that came from my mentors back in the unit. ALC taught me some of the details of my MOS that I didn't know before, but there was a lot I already knew (hence why I was the DHG). I was surprised to see how much some of my classmates didn't know, but our class was mostly supportive of each other and we educated each other. Most of us wanted to see everyone grow and learn. Our instructor was awesome, but she also explained the course was designed to follow TRADOC's POI very strictly so they were not allowed to modify it on the fly. It took time to submit requests to change the POI, then it has to be vetted, tested and approved. The process can take 2-3 yrs for a simple change. This causes stagnation in teaching methods while the real-world force is already practicing the changes. But ultimately, I'll never forget the network of people I met in NCOES, my true battle buddies!

Response by CSM Gerald Turpin made Feb 9 at 2015 12:34 PM

CSM Gerald Turpin — Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:34:47 -0500

Going to an NCOES or OES course is a requirement. Learning from them is a choice. Take advantage of every opportunity to improve your knowledge. Apply yourself and see what you can do for the Military. Then sit back and reap the rewards. Military "Life is Good!"