Off-Limit Areas/Establishments, should there be any?

2015-01-29T15:50:10-05:00

I'm stationed in a relatively small post, our Off-Limit List is about just 5 Establishments (3 of them for selling Spice Tobacco and the other 2 for Unethical business practices). What surprised me is that one of them is where I did my car inspection last summer, one of this Gas stations with an auto shop in it. As adults that can make our own decisions, should there be actual "Off-Limits" Establishments?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 4:19 PM

2015-01-29T16:19:06-05:00

The off limits list is not always the obvious places like where they sell drugs or things like that. The reason your auto shop is on the list might be that they take advantage of Soldiers or overcharge you or something, and you wouldn't know that until you actually go there and get service. In one of my previous duty stations, they placed a bar off limits because they allowed SM's to get drunk and then drive back and one of them ended up getting killed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 4:19 PM

2015-01-29T16:19:25-05:00

Probably off limits for a reason. Either some illegal goes down there or perhaps something that made the Army/Gov't look bad. Maybe too many troops got hurt there in the pocket book or went to the hospital.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 4:32 PM

2015-01-29T16:32:22-05:00

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member. Some notorious off base establishments should be off limits. I can think of a few communicable disease and injury producing dens of iniquity and vice that some of our troops used to patronize on pass and/or leave that cost us enormous amount of time and money in medical care and lost unit effectiveness. Some of these establishments participated in coercion and human / women / child trafficking. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 29 at 2015 4:42 PM

2015-01-29T16:42:49-05:00

Keep in mind the command isn't only protecting you, but they are also protecting the various units, and the Army as a whole.

As an example, let's say you are stationed in a state that has legalized Medical or Recreational Marijuana.

These are still banned at the Federal Level under the Controlled Substances Act (Sched 1). The Federal government is only "tolerating" them in specific states like CA, CO, and WA.

As a Service Member, if you were to go into an establishment that sells "contraband" it can give the "perception" that these items are condoned. They are absolutely not, as a matter of DoD policy. Therefore they are explicitly banned by local commanders, and placed on Off-Limits lists.

Yes, you are an adult, but you are also a representative, whether you are in uniform or out. Taking it off doesn't make you invisible. It just provides a medium camouflage.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 29 at 2015 11:20 PM

2015-01-29T23:20:46-05:00

Couple points
1. All installations have an Armed Forces Disciplinary Review Board that review incidents, look at causes, and sometimes place establishments off limits. There is a legal process. Establishments are given a chance to clean up their act. If they don't, on the list they go. There is a review process to take them off. I can tell you, the business/place has "earned it".
2. Businesses that habitually screw soldiers and their families make the list too, particularly bad land lords. If you are new, you don't know. Again, have to earn this title too.
3. Commanders are obligated to maintaining good order and discipline by regulation. This is one of many tools. Again, if you are new, this is a way to stay out of trouble. Can't tell you how many times I have heard I didn't know. (Marijuana Stores in Colorado)
4. Some places are placed off limits because soldiers DIED there, and they don't want that to happen to you. (Swimming holes around Clarksville TN and Oakgrove KY as examples).
5. You are an adult and thank you for rising to the occasion and acting like one. Not all soldiers are at that point. It is more than buyer beware.
As a former GC , I am a huge proponent of the off limits list. I would ask you why that Gas Station you mention is on it. It is never done lightly. We're they selling inspection stickers (ie giving them out without inspecting). Did they bilk a few joes out of lots of money for BS repairs?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 9:16 AM

2015-01-30T09:16:36-05:00

Ok, fun/not so fun fact, when I got here in the incoming briefing they talk about the Off-Limits Establishments. They mention the Exxon. I have to mention that my 1st language is spanish and near the post there is a nightclub called X lounge. So, I associated the off limit Exxon with the night club with the X on, actually there's just a X on the building. NOW I know what they meant with Exxon, lol! Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS 1LT Sandy Annala SSG Private RallyPoint Member SFC Private RallyPoint Member LTC Jason Mackay SPC Scott Mayhew PO2 William Allen Crowder SFC James Sczymanski ok, now you can laugh at my innocence.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Jan 30 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-01-30T09:27:33-05:00

I believe there should be off limits area for the service members protection both physically, and financially. Give you a hypothetical situation there are no off limits areas and Soldier goes into a bar known for illegal activities and gets killed. The first thing his family is going to say is why didn't the military protect Johnny or Sally. Off limits area are not only for the service member protection but the military as a whole.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 4 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-02-04T14:13:29-05:00

Lowest common denomenator. Just because YOU can be an adult about it, doesn't mean the bubbas in your unit can. Placing an establishment off-limits is the command looking out for your well being.

Response by SSG Kenneth Lanning made Apr 28 at 2015 12:01 PM

2015-04-28T12:01:39-04:00

There's more than 5 here on Meade; check for an updated list...we have about 8 or 9 on the list we pass around at 327th SIG.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 28 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-04-28T14:07:28-04:00

Absolutely! We want our troops to be safe and not get financially ripped off as some businesses target the military with unfair practices. Several decades ago, the town outside Ft Campbell were not treating the soldiers well, so he banned any shopping in Clarksville. They became soldier friendly after a few months.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 28 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-04-28T14:15:30-04:00

Of course there should be off limits areas. For perspective, the bulk of the military is under 25 years of age. Their brains haven’t even fully developed yet. As a consequence, their critical thinking/risk analysis thought process is still not fully mature. It’s the reason you see such poor decision making from that demographic (though of course poor decisions are not limited to them). For lack of a better word, developmentally they are still children, despite the letter of the law. Children require boundaries. To keep them out of trouble a parent must often say “NO” and enforce it. While it can be said that parenting is not the Army’s job, when you recruit children, you have to expect to have to do a bit of it until their cognitive processes fully develops..

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Apr 28 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-04-28T15:09:55-04:00

The ones around here are all either "tobacco" shops or night clubs with a high murder rate. Off limits list are good to go in my book.

Response by SSG John Erny made Apr 28 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-04-28T16:04:08-04:00

Hmmm, you mean like acapulco lake in NC near Bragg. I never jumped off the cliff into the water, really. ;-0 <---- PFC me

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-04-28T17:02:54-04:00

I think there absolutely should be off-limits areas. Areas known to harbor criminals, areas that are known to prey on young service members, or areas that are otherwise harmful to service members. As long as off-limits areas are not abused, I see the value.

You say "as adults that can make our own decisions", but I pose to you the idea that maybe folks PCSing into the area, especially first-term enlistees, are not aware of the reputation that certain clubs, areas, or businesses have in the local area.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 21 at 2017 1:47 AM

2017-10-21T01:47:00-04:00

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Sep 9 at 2022 1:59 PM

2022-09-09T13:59:10-04:00

I can recall that some of the bars on Hay Street in Fayettenam were off limits for CIC agents reporting SAEDA activities there in. I only went down there as an MP. The local police and MPs with K9s patrolled together, rough place. On weekends, several trips to Cumberland County Law Enforcement Center to pick up soldiers and bring back to Bragg for 1SGs to pick up. MP station in old post school by polo field, and it would fill up fast. LOL On post, the 82d NCO club was a hot spot and the 82d MP company always calling for help from 503rd post MPs.