On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?

2015-01-14T04:22:00-05:00

This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 6:18 AM

2015-01-14T06:18:37-05:00

Guess I'm a little lost, why would she even wear it to go to the movies. Are you allowed to wear ACU off post to go to the movies? I'm afraid an attitude would not have gone very well with me. I agree with the others correct in private but the correction needs to be made.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Jan 14 at 2015 6:22 AM

2015-01-14T06:22:09-05:00

I have had something similar happen. Two PV2s in Rue 21 store, both in uniform, wearing their PC inside, both walking around the store with earbuds in listening to their music. I approached them both, asked if they were stationed here (Rucker), they both said "Yes". I showed them my ID. As soon as they saw the rank, and the look on my face, they fixed themselves with no further issue.

You can't just walk away from the situation. Letting substandard behavior go by, unchecked, means you just lowered the standard. You can't be afraid of what "could happen". Be concerned with what "is" happening. And fix it!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 6:44 AM

2015-01-14T06:44:36-05:00

Correct her right away. Introduce yourself as an NCO and explain the negative light that she is shinning on the Army. She probably doesn't care about that, but she should still fix herself. If she still wants to be a dirt bag, you won't be able to change that and you will only ruin your evening if there is a scene in the mall. Not to mention that causing a scene will mean that you are shinning a negative light on the Army.

Get her first name and look her up on the AKO white pages. IF you find her you can contact her Chain of Command.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:54 AM

2015-01-14T07:54:28-05:00

As a Professional Military Education Facilitator and soon to be Instructor, I would have definitely taken her aside explained who I was, and then explained her obvious disregard for the regulation covering dress and appearance. Also what it does to the public opinion when they see soldiers in uniform, whether they know of infractions or not, it's still the responsibility of the member to ensure they wear the uniform properly. With all the threats lately with ISIS targeting Military members it was also irresponsible of her to be out in public in uniform. She had total disregard for her safety and those around her attending that movie.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jan 14 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-01-14T09:09:19-05:00

I have made corrections in Wal-Mart....full uniform, with cover on. I just quietly approached the individual and reminded him that the cover was not approved to be worn indoors. I was in civilian clothes, but I think he suddenly realized that I may be someone that could do something about it and quickly removed his cover. I moved on without making it a big deal.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 14 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-01-14T09:09:33-05:00

Wow, that photo makes my skin crawl.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 9:55 AM

2015-01-14T09:55:51-05:00

I would have loved to be there! I would have wait like 5 minutes after you spoke to her and correct her. Then talk with the guy taking the tickets to tell her something, and the guy selling popcorn, and the janitor, so everybody would tell her something. but that's me SSG Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:15 AM

2015-01-14T10:15:48-05:00

Damn, I'm afraid I might've lost my shit, lol... I'm no longer Active, but for some CRAZY reason, I try to keep up with current regs from all of the branches (I like to be able to offer advice when SM's find themselves in trouble or something). I've given on the spot corrections as a Veteran and they were usually well-received. If I had gotten the eye-roll or something... Jesus. Most SM's I've been in contact with like this were respectful about it. You never know who is approaching you when they're in civilian clothes... Whoa be the Private who pops off to a Colonel...

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jan 14 at 2015 10:32 AM

2015-01-14T10:32:17-05:00

I have had similar issues and when I made the correction, my wife was astounded, almost embarrassed, but I told her that I had to make the OTSC. I would have pulled her to the side and the eye rolling and size of her friend tells me this might not have been a good event in public. Having her name and rank, this would probably be a research situation and direct intervention with her command.

The OTSC I had was in a international airport with about 3 Soldiers running around in the ASU with no jacket and no tie in a LS shirt and others with open jackets walking around the airport. I just could not allow this to continue in public. I stopped them each individually and pulled them to the side, identified myself and had them fix themselves immediately (a couple had to go retrieve parts of their uniform).

Another incident was a motorcycle with a bald rear tire showing threads. I saw the only Solder with a helmet and asked him if it was his bike, he said yes and I pulled his ID and drivers license, got the commanders name and phone and took a photo of his license plate. I gave him basically an order to replace the tire or I would contact his command, gave him my number and told him to send me a photo of the new tire on the bike, he did.

The only thing that I have not experienced to date in public is a attitude of the OTSC. Not sure how to deal with it other than snap a photo and try to find the command group and address the issue.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:42 AM

2015-01-14T10:42:31-05:00

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 14 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-01-14T11:11:43-05:00

Enforce the standard, or you have set a new one. if it's too public and will go too high-profile and can't pull aside as SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas suggested, memorize name, contact chain of command.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jan 14 at 2015 11:21 AM

2015-01-14T11:21:32-05:00

I think your actions and instincts were spot on until the SPC rolled her eyes. I cannot say I would have done anything different in the moment but I hope I would have yanked her chain as soon as she tried to get an attitude. You were doing her a favor by helping her become aware of her error(s)…not that she wasn’t but we will pretend.

In my opinion, as soon as she rolled her eyes and/or failed to remove herself from public to make corrections, you quietly and calmly take the specialist aside and direct her to return to her home or duty location. If the Specialist wants to return, she will either not be in uniform or in the correct uniform, if appropriate. Get the contact information for her unit and talk to your peer in her unit, so they are aware of what happened and can help mentor this solder so she does not make the same errors in the future. To often we think people actually know what they are supposed to do, so maybe we should give this young soldier the benefit of the doubt?

At least those posing as soldiers try to get their uniforms right?

From the fact that you posted it on RP, you knew what you should have done and you now know what to do in the future.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 11:27 AM

2015-01-14T11:27:46-05:00

I believe you HAVE to make the correction. Pull her aside, explain why she is wrong and at the very least, she will remember that moment the next time she wants to blatantly disregard regulations.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jan 14 at 2015 11:33 AM

2015-01-14T11:33:00-05:00

I am proud of you for realizing the situation may have caused a public scene more detrimental to the Army's image than the infraction of AR 670-1. A possible follow on action would have been to give the Soldier the opportunity to talk to you outside of public view, eliminating possibility of embarrassment. If the Soldier refused, you could take the information possible and contact the MP's to see if a courtesy patrol is in your area to help.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-01-14T12:00:00-05:00

I would have jumped in with both feet SSG!

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 14 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-01-14T12:04:26-05:00

Wow, hell yes! On the spot correction was totally appropriate. It really angers me that we have Servicemembers who think that is ok, let's not even mention the fact that she's at the movies in uniform...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:18 PM

2015-01-14T12:18:29-05:00

or you could have cut her hair above the collar and as you hand her hair to her say, "Now you're within regulations."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-01-14T12:22:35-05:00

What the H311 am I looking at? Willful disobedience to boot! There are those who are simply begging to be disciplined. AND then there are those that convince me that we need a lifeguard at the gene pool.

SSG Private RallyPoint Member you might have made the right decision to not make a scene, however, I definitely would have been more engaged and asked for her ID card and unit information. It is Soldiers who behave in that manner who bring dishonor to our service.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jan 14 at 2015 12:28 PM

2015-01-14T12:28:58-05:00

Such violations should never be overlooked but corrections should be made in private, if possible.

If she refused to immediately square herself away, I would request her ID card, ask her what unit she was in, and report the incident to her chain of command. If she refused to provide that info, the situation has reached another decision point. Do you simply retreat and forget about it or try to get more info about her in another way or do you escalate it? The setting and number of people around may make that decision hard, as you really do not want to create a scene. Having said that, if I was still on active duty, I would continue until the situation was rectified one way or another, scene or no scene. I guess that's just the MP in me... :-)

I had a similar situation back several years ago in Korea, where a young soldier wanted to "resist" a correction I was making at the PX (I was in civilian clothes but had identified myself). A senior NCO I knew, who had observed what was going on, walked up and told the young soldier that he had better comply because "He is your worst nightmare. He is not only an 0-6, but he is an MP 0-6. You will have a very bad day." The soldier immediately complied. :-)

I commend you for not simply ignoring it. That is never the right thing to do.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-01-14T13:03:44-05:00

I also found myself in the same situation as a junior NCO. I was on vacation in Florida and noticed an NCO that was walking around an outlet mall (where all store fronts are outside) without head gear. I approached the soldier who was straight out of basic training and introduced myself and showed my ID card so they didn't think I was just some guy. When doing this i separated myself from my family and requested the individual to remove himself from his group. I continued to inform the soldier they were representing the military at all times and should take pride when wearing the uniform and always wear it properly. I didn't do this in a demeaning manor, as I wanted to let them know they were wrong and there would always be someone nearby that knew what right looked like. I also reminded him of his army values and sent him on his way. The soldier thanked me and carried on with his activities in the correct uniform.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 14 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-01-14T13:14:38-05:00

Remember: praise publically and scold privatly. Take her to the side, possibly even excusse yourself for barging up to her, then introduce yourself and ask if she is currently on duty, then if RA or AR/NG and then suggest the correction, that is all you can do, you cannot force it or demand it, no matter how in the right you are, you will always loose in public. Then thank her for her service and go about your way. POINT: what you leave behind is what will stick with her, prople will change their ways when it is suggested and in a positive way. She may have made some remarks or rolled her eyes but later she will remember that you treated her with respect and only suggested. We as leaders need to remember that if we want lasting change, we need to lead into the future, not in the moment.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 14 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-01-14T13:16:15-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I commend you for your restraint. Civilians don't need to see us as ferocious rabid animals attacking and ripping apart smaller game. A SPC rolling her eyes at a SSG after admitting that she KNEW that she was in the wrong. Unbelieveable. In this touchy feely world with cameras roling 24/7, we have to be careful of how we are perceived, but as NCO's we have a job to do. I would politely ask to talk with he out of ear shot and I would whisper that if she didn't get back on track and square herself away that I would make it my mission in life to get to know her CSM and CO and to throw her disrespectful, unprofessional tushy out of my beloved service. There are great troops being cut left and right to accomodate her insubordination? I think not.

Response by SGM Samuel L. Jones made Jan 14 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-01-14T13:18:22-05:00

First I would have identify myself and ask her to step aside to make the on the spot correction. Also I would asked for her unit information and chain of command. This is not the first time this took place and maybe more than this going on in her unit. Just remember to stay calm and educate her of her wrong doing.

Response by SSG John Bacon made Jan 14 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-01-14T13:19:45-05:00

Really wish they would bring back Corrective Custody. SPC or PVT catches an attitude with an NCO Throw their Sorry butts into the stockade. Have them cutting the grass with scissors and a ruler.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 14 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-01-14T14:27:54-05:00

Never, ever back out of a correction unless there is the threat of violence. Now she thinks she has punked someone and gotten away with it, which technically she has. Now this SPC will be more bold in the future with her discrepancies, a major breakdown in discipline if you ask me.

Response by PO1 Chris Crawley made Jan 14 at 2015 3:59 PM

2015-01-14T15:59:18-05:00

Been there, corrected that. This is why the Navy and Marines could not wear our dungarees/cammies in public for most of my 20 years.

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Jan 14 at 2015 4:50 PM

2015-01-14T16:50:33-05:00

Correct it, get her name and unit, get her ID, then inform her command about it.... UCMJ is not restricted to base...

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Jan 14 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-01-14T17:37:04-05:00

You made the right correction in my opinion. I know folks who might escalate the situation "DI" style and draw attention from everyone standing in the crowded line. That ends up confusing civilians and hurting the overall image of the military. The only other thing you could really do is after you asked about the service branch, glance at the rank & name tag, and say "SPC Smith" what unit are you with? After that answer, you'll be able to calmly ask her to correct the issue on the side or have it elevated to her supervisor. Her choice. Commend you for taking action on this though.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jan 14 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-01-14T17:51:47-05:00

Story time:

Me and a friend both in the Army in AIT at Ft. Sam, we are out during the weekend and stop at Dick's Cafe. We get verbally abused and given paper condom hats, and then enjoyed a decent meal. Walking down the River Walk with said paper condoms on we are stopped by a retired Navy Chief, he shows us his card, I knew it was legit because I've seen my fathers. He told us it does not look well for us to walk around with the hats on. We promptly removed them and kept walking. We were not in uniform, my friend had a shirt with Army on the chest and that was about it.

That being said, if we could be corrected while in civies, by someone from another branch, she can be corrected in uniform in public. If she doesn't want to play ball and change her ways, or provide identification once you have identified yourself, assume she is stealing valor and call Local Police Officers for the offense. A warning to do so should also offer a quick turnover of identification.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jan 14 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-01-14T18:45:40-05:00

I was never in a leadership position in the service so i'm sure my opinion would be uniformed but I think i would of gotten her name and unit and went to her NCO or SNCO and dealt with it on base in an appropriate setting. I think its important that in public we do not give ammo to peoples stereotypes of the crazy military guy.

Response by SSG Daniel Deiler made Jan 14 at 2015 7:27 PM

2015-01-14T19:27:29-05:00

So has anyone figured out where this happened? Surely it wasn't Korea.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:50 PM

2015-01-14T19:50:13-05:00

There is absolutely a time and place for mentorship and correction. Show your ID, and pull her aside. If you're of equal or even lower rank, that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility in correcting. I've privately called LTs out for uniform issues, and received no backlash then or after. We all represent our Services equally. Do use tact in how you address higher ranked individuals though.

Response by SFC Richard M. made Jan 14 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-01-14T19:55:19-05:00

Post the picture on your installation facebook page. Hopefully someone from her unit will recognize her and will be able to do something about it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-01-14T19:57:05-05:00

I would have been more sneaky about it. She knew she was out of regs.
I'd have sidled up beside her. "Hey! I know you from somewhere! Are you in A Company?!" Chances are, she'd reply in the negative. Banter. Eventually, I'd have her unit and commander...with a neat picture. And THEN I'd ask her if she was aware that she was out of regs. Eye-roll documented. No scene...just a COC forward and follow-up.
SSG Private RallyPoint Member, good job on addressing it, in the first place, though. Proper COA. Hopefully, she's got some NCOs willing to nip that nonsense in the bud.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 14 at 2015 8:55 PM

2015-01-14T20:55:37-05:00

IMO you should not have backed down, but simply asked her for her unit and names of command members, she had a choice to make at that moment, to either be respectful to the branch she swore an oath to or to be like many are and be disrespectful, you didnt force her to knowingly violate policies so she has only herself to be pissed off at.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 14 at 2015 9:37 PM

2015-01-14T21:37:28-05:00

If you're going to make a correction then ask her to step aside for a moment so you can speak to her privately. Public chastising will only serve to build walls between her and senior leadership. Also civilians see this and wonder why it's acceptable for you to treat grown men and women like children.

Response by SGT Raquel Zornes made Jan 14 at 2015 9:42 PM

2015-01-14T21:42:28-05:00

I would have lost my mind... Not only would I have corrected her but I would have asked a lot of questions because she is one of the reasons females get a bad name. Not on my watch!!! Even though I am no longer in uniform... That is a "no go" at this station.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-01-14T21:46:56-05:00

If I were that jacked up I would have expected the correction and when in uniform standards are everything. I don't care if I'm running to Walmart or going to the zoo standards are standards and we need to uphold them to promote the right image. I don't understand wearing your uniform to the mall anyway. Its a duty uniform and I tend to get more comfortable as soon as I'm off duty anyway

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 9:59 PM

2015-01-14T21:59:40-05:00

I believe that when we as leaders choose to walk away and allow violations like that it creates a culture where it's allowed. I've made kids change in the airport. They know they're wrong make them do what they know is right.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:10 PM

2015-01-14T22:10:47-05:00

Honestly SSG is such a public place, it's best to avoid the scene. From here though I think you should pass this photo and the story along to the chain of command. I'm sure her 1stSgt will have a way to square her away

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-01-14T22:15:03-05:00

Make the correction on the spot. Rank has nothing to do with it. I am of the opinion that even a private may even tactfully correct a general. The Army Reg is signed off by some one more senior and is an order. How you make the correction and rather the individual is seeking to correct the action should be taken into consideration.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jan 14 at 2015 10:17 PM

2015-01-14T22:17:22-05:00

Here's how I would have continued the conversation.
"You're about to be famous! Smile!"
Take photo of her face with phone.
"Are you familiar with Rally Point?" Well I'm about to post your picture all over for all to see your great intentionally defiant example. Save that popcorn from the movie you're going to see to read the comments. I may be just a SSG, but I'm a 3 Star General member of the year BMF on Rally Point! Now take off that damn headgear and fix your hair before I have to start down voting you!"
Problem solved.
.....and where the hell is your PT belt?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 2:06 AM

2015-01-15T02:06:04-05:00

I simply approach and Say, "You are always being watched. So you need to do the right thing." Then calmly walk away. Paranoia is so effective.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 7:12 AM

2015-01-15T07:12:10-05:00

I'm sure nothing I say hasn't already been said. If it were me, I would have pulled her to the side, showed her my ID and ask to see hers, then continue to correct her. That way, if she gives you any attitude and you feel you need to exfil to avoid a situation, you have already seen her ID and can look up her full name on AKO and approach it from the top down.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 7:21 AM

2015-01-15T07:21:59-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member If you are right, you are right. All you can do is inform the individual of the violation and if they don't intend on correcting themselves, maybe you need to get a hold of their supervisor. You don't have to make a scene to correct someone, especially when they are blatantly wrong.

One of the best sergeant's we have will correct someone in a heartbeat and it is almost scary and does incur some disdain but it is only because they are wrong. Sometimes being right means you have to be unpopular. Kudos to you for speaking up!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-01-15T07:52:39-05:00

I would have identified myself as an NCO and showed her my ID card as proof and then corrected her off to the side as not to cause a huge scene. Somewhere on her jacket should be her name and if she did go postal then I could easily track her down through AKO and find her unit. It might take a little detective work but it can be done.

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Jan 15 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-01-15T07:56:58-05:00

I would of ripped her a new one once she rolled here eyes! NCOs need to enforce the standards! Sad thing his her NCOs must permit it. If they didn't she would not have been in violation! I am retired and I still will go up to a individual and fix it! I will always be an NCO. NCO lead the way!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 10:24 AM

2015-01-15T10:24:57-05:00

About a month ago I had another ALC instructor with me and we was in clothing and sales. There was a SGT walking around on her phone. He went over to her and corrected her on this. She comploied at first then 10 min later was doing it again. But this time she was on speaker phone. Well I was done doing what I needed and waited for her to pay as she was checking out, still on the phone. So when she walked out I pulled her to the side and corrected her. I even pulled my ohone out and showed her the REg as she wanted to tell me she "thought" you could do it inside a building. After some mentoring she was very clear on the Reg.

As I walk in to get back in line there was a 1LT with his sleeves tucked under. I walked up made the correction so no one could hear but him. He didn't hesitate to fix the issue.

Point is it is all of our jobs to make the corrections. Be it on post, off post(have did this too soldier walking talking on phone in mall with hands in pocket). There is always a correct way and wrong way of doing it as well. Ripping some one in the middle of Walmart isn't the best way. both of you look bad. Plus the correction don't come off the way you would like.

Response by SMSgt Ottis Stacey made Jan 15 at 2015 11:33 AM

2015-01-15T11:33:07-05:00

Completely understand your reluctance to get into an argument in public. However, I definitely would have got her name and number and ensure that I contacted Her unit. Personally I would have corrected her on the spot and have several times. It's ALL IN THE Approach Tact Goes a long way.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 12:11 PM

2015-01-15T12:11:31-05:00

Maybe she wasn't in but just wearing it to get cheap tickets. Wait, that's worse...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-01-15T12:14:46-05:00

One option that I would have gone with, was ask her to step to the side, introduce myself and show her my military ID and address her uniform violations and simply let her know that she is promoting an unhealthy perception to the public. At least, as an NCO, you did what you were supposed to do. You addressed the issue, and stepped out when you realized the situation could have become worse than it needed to be. No fault on your part.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 12:17 PM

2015-01-15T12:17:25-05:00

Tough question. I think you did the right thing by correcting her. Perhaps being more subtle and less confrontational would have yielded better results. I might have said "Excuse me, your hair is down, and your cover is on." (I have said it like this to superiors) If she refused, I might have tried to explain the importance of standards, and if she still refused, then I might have considered trying to find out who her first line supervisor was.

Response by LTC Herman Valentine made Jan 15 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-01-15T12:27:39-05:00

I would have continued with the corrective process in private and advised her that she would most likely be a NCO soon enough and that you would expect her to do the same thing if the situation ever presented itself in the future. Always end the session on a positive note...unless the individual is just a complete un-salvageable POS with a self-destructive attitude;-)

Response by PV2 David Minnicks made Jan 15 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-01-15T12:42:28-05:00

So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public? Every
Remove ourselves from the situation? Never
In my opinion by not bringing this violation to the attention of the SM you are just as bad as the SM that is wearing a uniform that doesn't meet standards and you are not fulfilling your duties.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Jan 15 at 2015 5:26 PM

2015-01-15T17:26:00-05:00

unfortunate that she thought it was ok to do it, even though it was wrong. I am hoping that this is the exception to the rule and people understand that our actions as soldiers reflect on the military. Many people only experience the military through movies and interacting with soldiers, so whatever we do that is the impression they get.

Who knows, maybe we need a class on what proper military etiquette is!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 5:26 PM

2015-01-15T17:26:20-05:00

I think that it should be done within reason and in a certain fashion. I was always told that you should come up, introduce yourself, with rank (showing ID if needed). State the problem and ask for them to fix themselves. If they do not try to gather information on their unit so you can report them to their chain and at least have the issue corrected by them.
Sometimes its also a judgment call though. I saw a young sailor walking outside without his cover on in uniform while I was in mine. I did observe though that was walking very quickly to get inside then went to get lunch (at a super market), so I just walked by him, gave him a look, he dropped his eyes and got the point across that he needed to be attentive to bring along his cover when he obviously forgot it. No words needed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-01-15T17:41:18-05:00

While I don t deliberately go out in public to look for uniform corrections, I do go out of my way to keep my SA up and constantly scanning crowds for things. Just how i am wired. If I see someone in uniform, I start to zone in on them and my attention to detail kicks in. Ok, nametapes are on right, the uniform fits, there isnt a 19 year old kid wearing a Col rank, and they have the right footwear and uniform bloused correctly. If its all in ordnung, I move out and move along. No harm, no foul. I ve corrected a Pv2 in the airport before, and I pulled him aside.

I showed him my ID and let him know who I was. I asked him what his business was, why he was in ASUs, and if he was on PCS orders (legal to travel in ASU s on PCS), or a funeral detail, and if I could see a copy of his orders. He had none, and I asked him if he had a change of clothes in his bag. I informed him that traveling in uniform is a reflection of the Army as a whole and when the situation is not required not to wear it. He said he would change, and not do it again, and his answer as to why is he hoped to score a 1st class upgrade. I told him not to do that and that its using the uniform for ill gotten gains. I told him I appreciate his honesty and that I hope he won t do it again, and to learn from it and be a positive influence on his battle buddies.

Do I think its right for soldiers to be out in public in their uniform? Not particularly but I will have to go to the store or a gas station on the way home and run errands, etc. But airport, with thousands of people, you never know who is there and why. I ve seen the SMA Chandler in the airport before and continued on my way. There are countless people out there and we all have eyes and ears, and I think its not only our duty to make the corrections, but an obligation. And lastly-if they get lippy, start digging and have fun. The units will be more than happy to deal corrective punishment.

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made Jan 15 at 2015 11:05 PM

2015-01-15T23:05:38-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member SSG you did the right thing. I would have maybe pulled her aside. But you did the right thing and didn't ingore it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 11:23 PM

2015-01-15T23:23:53-05:00

I see Soldiers out in public all the time in uniform (cammies) so what exactly is the Army policy on wearing uniforms in public?

As a Marine we are not allowed to wear them off base and if I see a Marine wearing them I WILL correct that individual. If they are with family or friends I will pull them to the side, introduce myself and I ask to see their ID, that way I get their full name so I can look them up and contact their Chain of Command if needed.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jan 16 at 2015 12:04 AM

2015-01-16T00:04:48-05:00

I witnessed a similar incident event in Guam back in my day (mid to late 70's). One of the marines from our ship was approached by a man in civilian attire. The marine had removed his blouse and t shirt to soak up some sun. He was asked what unit he was attached to and when the marine told him, the man gave him a card and told him he would expect a call from his NCO by 1100 hours the next day either to tell him that the infraction had been dealt with or to ask what was wrong. The card identified the man as a marine Lieut. (attached to the base security unit.). If he didn't receive a call he would come to the ship and find out why. It was over in moments and the man walked away. I always liked that kind of approach.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jan 16 at 2015 12:17 AM

2015-01-16T00:17:55-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, this is why I think the Army should go back to wearing the Class A or Class B dress uniform when in public places such as airports!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 16 at 2015 2:12 AM

2015-01-16T02:12:34-05:00

I wish you filmed it. If that was a Soldier, she has not pride in being a Soldier. I want her to beat her face on the asphalt. That means do push up for anyone not Army.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 16 at 2015 2:16 AM

2015-01-16T02:16:45-05:00

Maybe for entertainment, I would have embarrassed her in front of her friends since she likes to show off in uniform.

Response by Cpl Jeff Buckman made Jan 16 at 2015 2:29 AM

2015-01-16T02:29:29-05:00

I had a similar situation there was this pfc in full uniform riding a small pink skateboard to the train station, when I confronted him about it his excuse was he got a dui how else was he supposed to get around? To which I replied the fu**ing shoelace express!

Response by MSG Alan Purdie made Jan 16 at 2015 5:52 AM

2015-01-16T05:52:18-05:00

You handled this correctly so as not to great a public scene but you also need to follow up with her chain of command. When I find myself in similar situations, I first obtain their name and unit from them, then politely issue the necessary instructions to always be in the proper military uniform or change into civilian clothing. If they then display the "attitude" I just follow up with their chain of command. I live in a small town so I will see them later and usually they still have the "attitude" toward me but either are in civilian clothing or proper uniform.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-01-16T09:33:23-05:00

I would have pulled her aside and told her she is making a complete idiot of herself in public. While most civilians don't know the rules of wearing a military uniform they do have an idea of what a military member should look like. Professional and well kept. The female in the picture you posted in the question looks like crap. I also would have asked her why she thinks going out like that anywhere looks decent. She looks like the equivalent of a person wearing a pair of ratty stained sweatpants and matching t-shirt who didn't take a shower in the last couple days.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-01-16T14:57:38-05:00

I once did a correction in public. It was at a public safety day in our town, I saw a Soldier (SSG) in uniform (or not, hence the correction). She was walking around outside in public without her PC on. I was not in uniform and did not identify myself, I asker her what unit she was in and made some other small talk, then pointed out to her that she should have her hat on. She made a remark about how hot it was, she probably saw the look on my face because she said "you're right, I'll go get it". It was all done quietly, with making a public scene.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 16 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-01-16T15:26:21-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member SSG Robinson I applaud you! I at the rank of SSG would have lost my mind... as my wife watched on a few occasions. Especially if the eyes got rolled. That of course was a younger and my more homicidal side...I have since mellowed. :o) I think you did the right thing. Disengage before it escalates... That is not good for the civilian onlookers to witness as they would not understand.

Let me offer you a technique for the next instantance this occurs... and it will!

Start off with a semi smile of recognition "Hey! I'm Sergeant Wesson... aren't you in Charlie 2-25?"

Or what ever local units you have... doesn't matter just as long as you do not "appear threatening".

A dollar to a dime they will reply with their actual unit (pavlow's dog response almost).

Then you let the smile fade and politely say, "Well, I just wanted to let you know that your in violation of.... and need to correct yourself before someone else sees you like that. Thank you!" and walk away... and then watch.

Now you have their Rank, Name, and unit... if they ignore you... then you can go to their unit 1SG and report them! In my experience... the first part always has done the trick for me. However, I was prepared to go to the unit is they didn't correct themselves.

just a technique... and it still works... I used it down at Sam Houston a dozen times... and I'm retired.

Hope it helps!

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Jan 16 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-01-16T18:47:38-05:00

Should have made her lock her nasty body and fix herself or go the hell home. Why is she in uniform to go see a movie anyway? I can't stand seeing ACU's when I go out in public. Stop being lazy and change into civvies or, if you really really want recognition, wear your service uniform.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Jan 16 at 2015 7:13 PM

2015-01-16T19:13:51-05:00

I made an on the spot correction when I saw a service member in a truck stop without his uniform top. I waited til we were in an area where it was semi private, I pulled out my ID and identified myself and told him he was out of uniform and that he should correct himself. He asked for my 1SG's contact info which I gave him. He never identified himself.

I found out later that he was a 1LT from a reserve unit in the area. He told my company commander that I was yelling at him in front of a bunch of civilians and had embarrased him. That's the point he f!@#d up big time. My commander got his information and informed him that if I had made an on the spot correction then he should have fixed himself. My commander then went on to say that in the 18 or so months that he had known me he had never one time heard me raise my voice to anyone, inculding my Soldiers.
The officer that I corrected had HIS commander called about the entire deal.

So, yes, you should have made a correction on the spot, if she had copped an attituded then she deserved to get embarrassed for her actions. If she would have gotten loud, you stand your ground and let her make an ass of herself. All you needed was her name, rank and unit to make phone inquirees of local units.

There is always something you can do, and should do. Remember, you are an NCO 24/7 365, and if you can't make decisions then you need to rethink your career choice.

Response by LTC Daniel Rogne made Jan 16 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-01-16T19:20:33-05:00

Need to revisit the days before 2005 where the BDU was ruled with an iron fist. No shopping allowed back then. Only convenience stops like gas and milk runs and then go home/ work.

Response by PFC Aaron Knapp made Jan 16 at 2015 7:22 PM

2015-01-16T19:22:56-05:00

Maybe if you rrport her you can get an ARCOM lol. J/k I've corrected NG for wearing covers in door myself so I suppose it all depends on how you want to handle it. I don't understand why soldiers sre wearing uniforms out to things like movies? We always wore civilian clothing. And from you picture looks like she needed more than an on the spot correction was needed? Why wear BDU or ACUs or whatever they are called now mixed with a PT uniform?? Sll I can say is she is Ate The FRack up in my opinion.

Response by SSG Vincent Jackson made Jan 16 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-01-16T21:50:31-05:00

In light of correction, it would solely depend on the situation at hand. Although you ask her in regards, was she in a standard of military, in which her reply was a "yes", in her response with the rolling of eyes, my Indication would ask, may I see her military ID with myself pulling out mine as well. If she could not provide such, then I would just back off and look at either another case of Stolen Valor, and pathetic.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jan 17 at 2015 1:01 AM

2015-01-17T01:01:24-05:00

I would have yelled and screamed and ranted and .... Well, that is what the Chiefs in the Navy told me to do when I was in.

I remember when I was home from boot camp nobody had told us we couldn't wear our dungarees off base so I was wearing them. A sailor saw me and asked if I was just out of boot camp and I said yes. So he told me I couldn't wear that off base and told me I should go home and change into civvies or a proper uniform. Then he walked away. I was grateful for the way he handled it, quietly.

Of course since she told you she knows she is out of uniform regs I would have told her a bit more forcefully to go fix it now or I would be reporting her to her command. Of course you would have to know her command.

Now since I started working at USPACOM I have seen female sailors with their hair past their collars. I asked a Senior Chief about that and he told me that there was nothing he could do because the offender was female. Apparently now days if a male says anything to a junior female she can just yell sexual harassment and get away with it. So a female superior has to talk to the female. But there aren't enough of them to handle it.

Also what is this crap about women out at sea can have 1 stuffed toy on their bunk when they aren't in it???? WHAT??? NOTHING ON THE RACK! Those things go flying when a ship takes heavy seas or come under fire.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 5:25 AM

2015-01-17T05:25:15-05:00

This happens in all ranks... I had a MAJ who wore an ORANGE t-shirt under his ACUs with a lei, and said, "it's okay, we are supporting a community exercise by being involved". I respectfully disagreed with him, since he outranks me. However, I also referred the situation to the Battalion Commander as I felt the MAJ was setting a precedence for poor judgement / new standard of what is "acceptable" off duty. I don't care who you are, the uniform needs to be respected or removed from your person if you are not wearing it in accordance with AR 670-1

Response by MAJ Jessie Taylor made Jan 17 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-01-17T09:33:52-05:00

On post, or in a mall. Service members fall under the UCMJ. If a standard is not enforced, the standard has been changed.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Jan 17 at 2015 12:18 PM

2015-01-17T12:18:31-05:00

You exercised more self control than I would have. I would have been asking for this person's commander's name, unit number, etc. and if she failed to give it, I would do a search upon returning to work for all of this information and let her commander know of her behavior and how badly it represented his or her unit.

Response by SGT Justin Singleton made Jan 17 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-01-17T13:21:25-05:00

Think about how you would want to be corrected. I would want to be taken aside individually, but if I was taken aside while standing in line (losing my place) I would have gotten pissed. That said, her getting attitude makes things different. If you asked to take her aside and she became angry, then I would have let out the bull.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Jan 17 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-01-17T13:41:07-05:00

I would've made the correction immediately but would've done it by pulling her off to the side and out of public view/earshot.

Bluntly she looks like a soup sandwhich or a walking duffle bag. But she's obviously out on a date or spending time with a friend or spouse. There's no need to embarrass here or ruin her night. There's a tactful way to get the point across....

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-01-17T13:46:35-05:00

My concern is why do we have service members that are comfortable enough to show themselves in public that out of uniform and then are upset that someone would call them out for that.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-01-17T14:17:19-05:00

Whether it is in public or private, I personally would rather be corrected at the first possible moment something is recognized as being "out of reg" for myself.
I don't look in the mirror once I get my hair up in the morning, so I could be the pockets askew/rank twisted/spinach on teeth misfit if not for a sharp-eyed fellow soldier to correct me.
Politely.
No one wants to be "that guy" who makes the military look sloppy!

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-01-17T14:47:06-05:00

There's only so much you can do in public with shitbags sadly. Did you consider pulling her up via the Army equivalent of MOL and having a quiet word with her chain of command? Not officially mind, but "Hey SSgt, one of your joes is out of her fucking mind." Not wearing a cover or something is a spot correction, that level of fuck up's a bit more then you can deal with outside of a professional environment, never mind off base in a crowded civilian area.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Jan 17 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-01-17T15:36:42-05:00

Agreed, make the correct without making a public scene. So he approaches the Soldier, she admits that she is not in regulation. Well great, so she apparently doesn't care. What then do you do? It is kind of clear that this Soldier doesn't care and it would of just created a scene if anything else was said at that point.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 1:33 PM

2015-01-18T13:33:20-05:00

Not worth it. Obviously a POS. If you really care probably easy enough to find out who she is and report to her chain...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 1:40 PM

2015-01-18T13:40:11-05:00

As a Non-Commissioned Officer, we are supposed to uphold the Army Standard and regulations, whether on or off duty. There is no excuse for a Soldier to look that jacked up in uniform, even if it is a BA weekend. I advise all my subordinates to wear civilian attire when they are off duty, and if you are attending an event that requires the wear of a uniform, ensure that you are well within regulations.

Response by SSG Jayne Reed made Jan 18 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-01-18T13:43:47-05:00

I live in the big city, and am always seeing people walking around in bits and pieces of uniform thrown on any old way, with name and rank. It gives me the willies, like a raggedy flag flying in the rain, but we're not near any military facility, so I assume they're crazies with knives ("Veteran with PTSD attacks shoppers at mall. Film at 11"). If there were a military base nearby, I'd ask the person if they were active duty. If they said yes, I'd say "You know you're taking a huge fashion risk right there, don't you?" And then I'd wander off.

Response by PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) made Jan 18 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-01-18T13:52:26-05:00

While stationed at Bangor Submarine Base, WA, I would run across jr sailors and marines that would be out of uniform. I would usually say one or two things to them, but I had one experience where a kid told me I had no "F" ing clue what I was talking about. So I pulled out my ID and pointed out that I did. He continued to give me lip and asked for his ID. He refused and when he tried to walk away I asked what command he was with? He again refused. About a week later I saw him on base in uniform and walking with a SSGT. I walked up to the SSGT and introduced myself and asked if this was one of his Marines. He told me yes and then I explained to him what had happened off base and disrespectful he was to me. I explained to him that wasn't out to get the kid but wanted him to be aware. He thanked me and they walked away. I later saw the SSGT at the gym and he thanked me for letting him know. He told me that they had been having a lot issues with him.

Response by SSG Keith Dawson made Jan 18 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-01-18T13:52:35-05:00

To the Troop that presented this discussion...
First of all RANK has no bearing on the regulation...I have told a CSM to "please adjust his beret, and then assisted with such...because truthfully he looked "out of reg's blatantly" and truly looked badly, he later coined me for my actions.
Only the true "following the regulation" takes presendence.
Now my back background: USCG (active) NH Air Guard (Tsgt) NH ARMY Guard (SSG, ret).
Also involved in numerous HONOR GUARD positions and many deployments.
I just have to say this...if you are out and about on the civilian sector in uniform ( which unless you are on-call, you have plenty of time to change out to civi's) You should present yourself in that uniform "PROPERLY, with dignity and respect, and appropriately...It should be an Honor to wear it that way!
As for "corrections on the spot" so to speak, advise that Troop of the issue (ensuring your view is correct) and asked them politely to rectify in private, no embarrassment needed to either Troop, Yourself, or Public view of OUR ARMED FORCES.
On a side note some people don't know the true way to present themselves in public in our respective uniforms, a GREAT NCO will do this in a manner of fitting with our traditions.
This Troop could be fully involved in an imposter situation as well...
Just use your head and service and go from there, but do it professionally...
Submitted respectfully,
SSG (ret) K. "Doc" Dawson, Hooah!

Response by AN Wayne Lambert made Jan 18 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-01-18T13:57:58-05:00

Post Vietnam vet...If you are off base under orders conducting Navy business working uniforms were allowed. If you were in transit under orders/liberty civilian or dress uniform was the rule. While in uniform proper presentation of the uniform at all times. I can only imagine the dressing down one would receive for disrespecting the uniform and my unit. Certainly would have been brought before the Mast.

Response by SPC Harry Uffalussy made Jan 18 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-01-18T14:31:32-05:00

I saw two squid ensigns JG's go into Starbucks without covers: a retired Gunny set them straight in public in recruit depot terms. They left.

Response by Lt Col Michael Hills made Jan 18 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-01-18T14:46:24-05:00

I always make the correction; I do it because it's my responsibility but also because it reflects on the military as a whole and I for one appreciate the respect that the civilian community on balance has for those serving in uniform and know it is earned by appearing professional so am not about to let that be lost by unprofessional appearance or conduct of a military member. I never make a big deal out of it but in no uncertain terms tell them what they need to fix and stick around until they fix it. Airman had her earbuds dangling around her neck in the post office the other day and I bluntly told her to fix it; yes she rolled her eyes a little and yes, thirty years ago I would have ripped her a new one for that but its a New Air Force so I accepted compliance. Had she made a stink I would not have escalated in public but would have taken note of her name and tracked down her Commander for a chat. Leadership is hard but it's vital so you keep doing what you're doing Staff Sergeant!

Response by PVT Dominique Stewart made Jan 18 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-01-18T15:03:49-05:00

That soldier was wrong for being in improper uniform.AR 670-1 applies on and off duty. You did the right thing. If I were there, I would have probably did the same

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-01-18T16:48:20-05:00

It is important to make on the spot corrections, but as the old saying goes "criticize in private, praise in public." My first boss in the military instilled in me, never pass a problem. If you pass the problem, you have just set a new standard. The first question I asked myself when I saw the photo was, why is she at the theater in uniform to begin with?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 6:28 PM

2015-01-18T18:28:52-05:00

The situation is tricky because of the environment we face in this day in age. For those "old corps" types, this isn't a new thing- it happened in the Vietnam era as well. The problem is that we have been at war for way, way too long and when that happens, the standards fall by the wayside and are replaced with a "field" mentality by the NCOs. In this particular situation, her NCOs have failed her miserably and now she thinks she owns the rules, and for the most part, she does in this scenario. Sure you can make a scene and put her on blast, make her stand at parade rest and the whole show, but she is just going to roll her eyes and tell you to take a hike. You can't exactly tell her to take off the uniform or take her home to change- it's just not feasible and since you aren't in uniform or her chain of command your teeth are limited to what you already said to her. All there is to do is take a pic and throw her to the wolves on JTTOTS or something similar. You told her she was in the wrong, and she did nothing to fix it- that's all there is to be said in this situation. She is a lost cause and what leaders of all ranks need to focus on is damage control at this point. Less kill, more drill is the solution- if you see a service member that is dicked up or blatantly in the wrong... It's back to basics, they won't learn anything from a tongue lashing, you have to do it with pen and paper and the red tape we all love. Identify the superior and inform him of the infractions then follow up with the OIC. Nobody has time to deal with an individual that doesn't want to play ball. It's going to be this way for the next five years if all commanders implement regular inspections and basic inventories now; if they wait to act on the issue is will only to continue to progress and dilute the ranks, because the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan still serving have the mindset of getting the job done at any cost, and in many cases one of those costs is grooming standards and uniform regulations. In country, it's not a bad thing; practicality and common sense prevails because it saves lives. Educating NCOs on how to adjust accordingly stateside however is lacking and it shows in the rank and file being produced by small unit leadership. Back to basics, gentlemen, back to basics.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Jan 18 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-01-18T19:14:08-05:00

As a Navy MAC I would constantly see male sailors out in public on base wearing earrings. I would simply say " Are you in the Navy?" When they said "Yes" I would simply say "Then get that fucking earring out of your ear." They would remove it quickly and there was no further discussion. They knew they were wrong and I didn't have to be politically correct about it. Correcting deficiencies do not have to be done in the "Cone of Silence". That's the problem, everyone has forgotten that it's the MILITARY and not corporate America. They're supposed to be warriors for God's sake not think skinned children.

Response by SSG Scott Burk made Jan 18 at 2015 11:24 PM

2015-01-18T23:24:43-05:00

I think a little "pep talk" off to the side would have been in order after properly identifying yourself. Where are all the CSM's when you need them? :-)

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 11:43 PM

2015-01-18T23:43:47-05:00

Pull them aside and correct them privately. If they give you attitude get name, rank, and duty station, and report it to their superior.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2015 6:38 AM

2015-01-19T06:38:47-05:00

This female would have been in tears after I got through with her, but she would also be within regulations and at least pretend to be proud of it

Response by SPC Larry Buck made Jan 19 at 2015 7:28 AM

2015-01-19T07:28:59-05:00

SSG Robinson my opinion you did right, but yeah remedial training involved now.. Don't disrespect the people who raised you by being somebody and let the routine slip! Forget AR's your family is top priority, don't make them look like bad teachers ,as "uniformed services" we are family! Goofy army guys and explitive jarheads , lol we are family, hate each other sometimes or just clowning around ..we are back up to the back up, we can't let our brothers and sisters slip it'd ruin our reputation for unity big brother don't like that he'll give you noogies and it's funniest when it's not you but remember what it was like as an outsider and be easy but be firm your big sister to her

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Jan 19 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-01-19T16:57:54-05:00

SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas I agree with you 100% on this one. I would have asked her to come over to the side with me. If she said no I would have showed her my ID and pointed out that I am an E7. If she did come with me at that point I would have informed her that while in her uniform she is a direct indication and rep to the military and she is showing a very bad example. If she refused to I would have asked for her ID card and took down the information and then asked her what unit and who her commander was? If she didnt do any of that I would be looking for her on every social network I could think of and figure out who she is to report her to her COC. On the spot corrections need to show that the Military is not ate up as she is showing.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Jan 19 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-01-19T17:05:41-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I just did a search of RP to see how many people with the name Ware there was. There was only two profiles that I think could be female. The others are males with pictures or names like Robert. Where where you. Your profile says South Korea but not sure if hat was where you were.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Jan 19 at 2015 5:06 PM

2015-01-19T17:06:08-05:00

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2015 8:28 PM

2015-01-19T20:28:37-05:00

Absolutely, and the fact that she rolled her and knew she was in the wrong makes it even worse. She is setting a horrible example and what's worse is that she is perpetuating an attitude of nastiness to the public.

Response by SPC Dale West made Jan 20 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-01-20T22:01:18-05:00

I See Cadets Around West Point Like That All The Time And What Is Worse Is Some Of The Active Duty Officers And Military Personnel That Are Here Do The Same Thing (Wearing Part Of The Uniform With Rank On It And Regular Civilian Attire With It). I See Now Why Cadets Do It. LACK OF EXAMPLES

Response by Cpl Felipe Morales made Jan 21 at 2015 5:42 AM

2015-01-21T05:42:39-05:00

Shitbag all the way.if you were also still in then yes anounce your rank and tell her to correct herself.if she is non compliant ask for her to give your her co's name and number

Response by SFC Keith Frain made Jan 21 at 2015 7:57 AM

2015-01-21T07:57:16-05:00

In those situations, given you were in your civilian attire, and she was wearing her military uniform (no matter how incorrectly), it's hard to say that something positive would happen...because I am guessing that the Soldier would immediately have gone on the defensive. (most likely due to her feeling that she is military...and who would correct her???)

Nonetheless, most of us at one time or another have been in this type of situation; I can only say what I have done in the past. First of all, yes...I would have/have done approached the person, introduced myself with military ID card in hand for the person to see, and asked if he/she had a moment, all the while making sure to include any parties the Soldier was with.

Usually, and I mean usually, once your position is clear (especially if your the same branch of service and a higher ranking individual) all correspondence will go smoothly and "on the spot corrections" will be done in a sorted manner.
However...If it all blows up in your face, so be it; kindly record their name, rank, and unit identifier, and bring it to the attention of their command. A Service member, (any branch) wearing a uniform has multiple identifiers, and if nothing else...you have a cell phone with a camera...as you used in your post!

Lastly, most are probably thinking that it's a little retentive to go through all of that, but you know what, so be it. For God's sake, we all know the rules, we signed the papers, and if we need to tighten someone's shot group, then do it. Kudos to you SSG!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 9:07 AM

2015-01-21T09:07:27-05:00

SSG Robinson, as a fellow NCO and SSG, I feel troubled by the ignorance, blatant disrespect and lack of pride one has for the uniform and their service. We, as leaders, should not let the infraction continue, regardless of where we are or whether we don't wish to cause a scene, regardless. I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes, I don't want to do it either, simply because of how many time I've done it. But the fact remains, that wrong is wrong. If we do not attempt to correct a deficiency or error, (of course you know what I'm about to say) then we make a new standard.

Response by SFC Jose Plascencia made Jan 21 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-01-21T12:26:48-05:00

I would have corrected her, asked her what unit she's in and asked her for her 1SG name

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 1:12 PM

2015-01-21T13:12:10-05:00

Automatically correct her. Show the your id, prove your rank and name. Get jets as well and unit. If she reports you, she'll be reporting her own ignorance.

Correct her, and move on. If she rebukes or refuses your correction then just write her up.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Jan 21 at 2015 1:54 PM

2015-01-21T13:54:33-05:00

I am looking through all the comments. Where are our SGM's when we need them? Lets here what you have to say.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jan 21 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-01-21T14:47:01-05:00

You can always correct her and if a major attitude sets in take a picture and take it back to your command. Maybe if she's identified and gets called before her NCOIC or OIC when she gets back on base she'll think twice next time.

It's really ashame that the dedication, maturity and responsibility isn't strong enough in her to want to do the right thing off base.

It's a tough call. How far are you willing to take it if your attempted correction gets really out of hand?

Response by SPC James Lawrence made Jan 21 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-01-21T15:54:40-05:00

Immediately

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-01-21T16:08:53-05:00

I would have corrected her, if she has an attitude problem then pulling her to the side in civs isnt gonna help, ida asked her who her company was and where she was stationed. However i would have done that thru small talk then corrected her, and if that fails. Call her unit up, google should be able to provide an address and a phone number to any public guard armory, how it is with the reserves may differ. That is definitely national guard spc idgaf behavior though. You obviously got her name, so if she isnt an imposter then someone somewhere will know her and rip her a new asshole for being a bag of ranky ass in public, otherwise shed be exposed and lose any and all reputation worth a grain of salt when it hits the media. However you leaving a soldier as a failure in public too could cost reputation for the entire branch and/or company over just this picture. But then again i was only a spc my self, so id bank my money on calling the nearest troop command or an armory and asking to speak to a senior nco who loves to handle post spot corrections!

But as for correction on the spot, soldiers in civs by regulation have no authority or atleast in my state when it comes to the guard.

Response by SGT Justin Ray made Jan 21 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-01-21T17:12:21-05:00

I would have shown her my ID and then insisted she fix herself....amongst other things.

Response by SGM Scott Spencer made Jan 21 at 2015 5:22 PM

2015-01-21T17:22:06-05:00

I would have corrected her and told her to put her hair up IAW AR 670-1 and explained to her that if she didn't feel like keeping in uniform standards while off duty, that she should have changed into civilian attire prior to going out.

Response by SGT William Massey made Jan 21 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-01-21T17:40:04-05:00

I would have figured out what unit she was with taken a picture of her and shown it to her 1SG.... people who disrespect the uniform should not be allowed to wear it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 5:43 PM

2015-01-21T17:43:13-05:00

Personally I would gave identified myself and my rank. Then i would have pulled her over to somewhere quiet, foubd out her unit and ger first line leaders name. and addressed it with her. If she started an attitude then there begins her downfall as it is disrespect to an NCO. With the unit info and her FLL name it would then be addressed to them to handle. But above all else the mibute she rolled her eyes get a witness. I have veen in a similiar situation and the fact I had a witbess saved me a ton of geartache wwhen the corrected soldier trued to say i was being inappropiate towards a female. So make the correctiobs vut make sure you cover your six in case it goes south.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 6:22 PM

2015-01-21T18:22:24-05:00

I would have said something. You are a NCO for a reason. Stop think of public opinion. If you are right with the regular then quote it to her (AR 670-1). BAM..... You should pull her to the side and tell her.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-01-21T18:32:08-05:00

Being a non-nco like her growing up in today's society alot has changed and people grow up differently coming from different backgrounds. But at anytime my uniform is wrong I have no problem with someone setting me straight. I like to be professional at all times in uniform and show my respect for the people who fought before me. I had an experience after a drill one weekend where I pulled up to a gas station and it was going to be quick because i was just buying tobacco so i just threw my keys in my pockets. However my lanyard was sticking out and some guy came up to me and told me to fix myself and told me who he was and everything. At first I was like really, this being the lesser of dress code regulations (for example wearing a rank that you aren't or having your name tapes in random places would be major problem) but on the other hand he was right and when I'm in uniform I should be professional and follow proper regulations. Anyways even though it would be embarrassing to be corrected in public, you're doing the right thing sgt. Hooah

Response by SPC Matthew Petri made Jan 21 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-01-21T18:40:26-05:00

I would have pulled her to the side and corrected her. If she gave me any lip, I would have took her picture and reported her to her command. Airborne Pathfinder's Lead the Way! Including putting my jump boot where the sun does not shine if need be. She would be on billy goat detail.

Response by SGT David Castoire made Jan 21 at 2015 7:03 PM

2015-01-21T19:03:56-05:00

I had a similar situation on Veterans Day last year, when I noticed a SPC in uniform with a gold watch on his left wrist, PT shirt under his tan shirt and clearly didn't shave. I corrected the young man and respectfully, the SPC took off the wristwatch and greeted me with a "Happy Veterans Day." Now a days some bare the uniform just to be recognized.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Jan 21 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-01-21T19:55:19-05:00

I would have used tech. I loath people emailing crap like this to commands but if she wasn't receptive to correction in public, keep your professional cool and let her command handle the problem. Give a heads up to your command in case it bites you in the ass they can cover your ass.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 10:27 PM

2015-01-21T22:27:11-05:00

Just made a rallypoint account because I saw this on Facebook and laughed out loud. I can't believe there is an actual discussion on some guy trying to fix some girl in the mall and a million people praising him. Everything that's wrong with the military in one paragraph besides corruption. Just leave her alone. My guys get stopped in the PX or the gas station on base all the time because we are allowed to wear modified uniforms (salomons, merrells, no patches etc) by people who can't mind their own business. I shouldn't have to explain to every person who has one more rocker (and no combat time) than me why I am wearing what I am. It's not like I woke up that morning and said "Fuck the rules, I'm going to wear whatever boots I want today." Now that girl has a black cloud over her head for the rest of the day because I'm sure you bummed her out. Just mind your own business. It's not hurting you any.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 10:56 PM

2015-01-21T22:56:18-05:00

You're a better man than I, if she rolled her eyes at me I'd have made it my mission to take down her name and give her CSM a call, after I told her that her blatant disregard for the standard and her obvious lack of respect were an embarrassment to the uniform.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 11:03 PM

2015-01-21T23:03:55-05:00

As a reserve E5, we are constantly told to tell our juniors to "unfuck themselves" and we are bombarded by training sessions about living the motto of honor, courage and commitment. ...In or out of uniform.....on or off duty. So I believe you should have corrected the spc, but in a way that didn't cause a scene. Praise in public, reprimand in private....As we were taught here anyway. Not sure how the army deals.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 11:25 PM

2015-01-21T23:25:59-05:00

You did what you were supposed to do. She will think next time about doing that I hope. Anyways today's up bringing in Army is not what it used to be.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 11:49 PM

2015-01-21T23:49:57-05:00

Should have continued to try to make the correction in my opinion.

The issue with this is that the standards are not being adhered to by the newest generation of Soldiers. While I am all for challenging things that don't make sense while I am at work, there is absolutely no reason to disregard the regulations.

Once corrected, make the correction and move out.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 11:50 PM

2015-01-21T23:50:46-05:00

There are a ton of Army regulations that people violate every day, especially those in the higher enlisted and officer ranks. They just don't give a shit. Neither does the Army. Many regulations aren't even enforced, until someone somewhere bears a grudge against someone else and tries to bust their ass for breaking an army regulation that hardly anyone knew existed. But here's a list I see plenty of self-righteous hypocrite pricks breaking:

1. Walking and talking on their cell phones.
2. Getting tattoos.
3. Getting piercings.
4. Drinking alcohol while in uniform
5. Doing drugs
6. Not having their fingernails properly manicured and trimmed.
7. Not having the bottom of their pants tucked into their boots, but "bloused" instead.
8. Smoking while in uniform.
9. Engaging in homosexual conduct (While it was still illegal, "Man-love Thursdays")
10. And perhaps the biggest one of them all: Indecent language. Yes, you are not allowed to be vulgar or use cuss words or offensive language. Go figure, because you'd never know such a regulation existed while serving in the military. AR 600-20, and UCMJ, Article 134, Paragraph 60. The penalties are also quite severe, and ironically, NEVER enforced by the military, nor punished. Guess most of the military would be kicked out if it was.

So, all you assclowns who complain about this uniform violation, next time remember that you deserve to be discharged for bad conduct on account of you breaking the indecent language regulation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:07 AM

2015-01-22T00:07:56-05:00

On the spot correction was definitely called for. As a female Sergeant, I scrutinize a uniform just in passing on post let alone having her hair down like that off post. I would have definitely pulled her to the side and helped her understand that it is even more imperative that we look professional in a civilian environment. We have an image to uphold and as a professional, needs to set an example to those Soldiers who may see her off-duty hours, as well as, the civilians/ veterans that would scrutinize her appearance because they know she knows better. No need to make a scene of course. If she had become disrespectful I would have asked for her chain of commands unit and 1SG name. Go ahead and not wear the appropriate head gear or put your hair up. Dually noted! It's not hard to find info of an individual on AKO to address standards that need to be reiterated to their Soldiers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:09 AM

2015-01-22T00:09:17-05:00

Soldiers know when they are wrong.
I just present my Identification card and tell them to fix themselves in a quiet voice without making a scene.

Yes, we must absolutely correct the Soldier as they are representing the Military and this is what the public sees and remembers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:48 AM

2015-01-22T00:48:30-05:00

It is our job to be correct 24/7 we are only 10% of our nation. So as we serve we should sit forward an example at all cost. There are many scenarios in how that could have played out. But I would have pulled her aside and made an on the spot correction. We can never miss an opportunity as leaders to make our presence felt in a positive manner.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:52 AM

2015-01-22T00:52:54-05:00

The problem is, is she was already making a scene at the mall. I know its hard to do at times especially in civilian gear and in a civilian environment, but I would have approached her like a straight Drill Sergeant. Walk right up to her and ask if she is in the Army and when she says yes continue the creating the scene she has already created. Ask her, "what the hell is wrong with you? Take your cover off and fix your hair. You are an embarrassment to everyone who wears that uniform proudly, people have died in that uniform. Fix yourself."

Not yell but have a loud and commanding voice. In my mind she would have 2 options at that point. Go ahead and do it and walk away with her head low wondering 'what was his problem...' or ignore you and everyone around would know that she is completely wrong and she would have to walk a good way before people stopped looking at her like the disease she is.

Response by SSG Anthony Hetherington made Jan 22 at 2015 12:54 AM

2015-01-22T00:54:07-05:00

Look her up on AKO and contact her unit with the details of her infraction and attitude.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 1:38 AM

2015-01-22T01:38:25-05:00

Everywhere you go you will always see people who are in mixed uniforms out of regs and bypass AR670-1 so stolen valor is a big thing now. As well. I believe the corrections should have been made but on a professional level . if you were an NCO and she was a lower enlisted she should be in accordance with what an NCO says to her.

Response by SPC Roy Baez-Gordils made Jan 22 at 2015 4:12 AM

2015-01-22T04:12:42-05:00

As a Spc. I would be that guy who would call my NCO. Tell him her what I saw and ask if he would have a word with this Spc. As a good soldier and friend I would tell her on the spot professionally in a low voice and ask for her to fix herself up and show some pride in that uniform. Your not going to represent my unit looking like a troll.

Response by SPC Edward Drain made Jan 22 at 2015 5:17 AM

2015-01-22T05:17:18-05:00

Standards affect everything in life. Every. Thing. Without standards of loyalty, spouses dishonor themselves and their families by cheating. Without standards of alertness or care, we let ourselves or others create conditions for illness or possibly even death.

Excellence is a habit -- get into it yourself, then help others.

I remember as a trainee many soldiers in our unit were doing the wrong thing so an NCO took it upon himself to remind us through PT. "When I say 'DOWN', you say 'Discipline!', when I say 'Up!' you say 'Get some!'" 40 soldiers, saying in unison, "Get some DISCIPLINE!" over and over again still makes me look back and smile.

Response by SPC Tate Smith made Jan 22 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-01-22T07:56:27-05:00

Unfortunately living here in south side Virginia the NG here thinks AR670-1 dosent apply to them. Granted I have separated but I still hold pride in my branch. When I identity myself as a former soldier and make the correction I get laughed at and walked away from. I have given the soldiers names to their 1SG and CO but apparently nothing is being done so I figure I'll give them a little longer to square away their unit then if not I'll go to their BN CSM or I may give up my disability and go back in.

Response by SGT(P) Kenneth Jones made Jan 22 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-01-22T08:06:54-05:00

I would have done on spot thats what we need as leaders to get back into doing its called tact. Attitude or not I have corrected seniir NCO's and a couole officers just the way uniform looked or how they were acting in uniform in public but I used tact. Some resented me cause I am SPC (P) but if you are afraid then when will you not be afraid to make on the spot correction. If I am jacked and I dont realize it yes correct me or if I just am tore up from the floor up correct me. By all means but use tact

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 8:53 AM

2015-01-22T08:53:53-05:00

I would have stood there till she took the hat off....and put her hair up...if she didnt comply.. i would have gotten her first name and unit....if she refused to provide that info...i would have made it my personal mission to get it...and pay a visit to her 1SG....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 8:56 AM

2015-01-22T08:56:52-05:00

Test

Response by SPC Jason Patterson made Jan 22 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-01-22T10:39:12-05:00

This is something that should be reported. There is one major difference between police officers and correctional officers, Pride. A police officer would never walk into a store in half uniform or with his shirt untucked, yet a corrections officer might. The thing that builds respect for officers is the officers have respect for themselves and as an extension the badge. As military we are supposed to mindful of how the public views us. SPC. Ware has no respect for herself, the uniform, the military, nor even the country itself. If she did she would not have been showing disrespect to a person in civilian attire while disrespecting the uniform in public as well.
This is one thing that bothers me to the core, I want what I did to mean something and the more we allow people to disrespect the uniform the more we will harbor disrespect towards the entire institution of freedom. Maybe my rant seems crazy to some who have yet to witness the disrespect and even hate of some of the public, but trust me; it's not pretty.

Response by CPL Gregory Travis made Jan 22 at 2015 12:34 PM

2015-01-22T12:34:13-05:00

When I was in the Army (1988-1995) I was always taught that you represent the Army 24/7. I would expect that this is a standard across all branches of service. SMSst Thomas has it point on. The correction(S) needed must be made at that time.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jan 22 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-01-22T16:31:15-05:00

I think a leader not making the correction because the lower ranking service member can be just as bad as the situation. While I agree you shouldn't make a scene at the mall, the SM needed to be corrected. There is always a way to get the SM corrected without making a scene.

Response by SPC Richard Cole made Jan 22 at 2015 6:14 PM

2015-01-22T18:14:30-05:00

On the spot corrections are warranted at any time.not wearing the uniform correctly is disrespectful and an e4 should know that.lock that as up and correct that trooper

Response by SSG Joseph Walker made Jan 22 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-01-22T18:52:01-05:00

Tell me what you guys think of this.

First off, I am a medically retired SSG with 10 years of service. I broke my L1 vertebrae during an airborne jump and had to have a L5-S1 fusion after it healed. I was medically retired 2 years later.

I was in a local K-Mart and saw a soldier with head gear on indoors. If I recall correctly, if it hasn't changed, there are only a couple instances where you can wear head gear indoors, one being if you are carrying a loaded firearm as an MP. I asked the soldier if he was carrying a firearm, to which he replied "no." So, I politely told him that he should not be wearing his headgear indoors. His first question was, "who are you?" I responded with my name and rank, followed by retired. He took off the headgear and said nothing more.

Was I out of line correcting this soldier even though I am retired? I feel, as a retired NCO, I should make an obvious correction, even if I am no longer active duty. I didn't make a scene and it was all very calm. So, wrong or correct on my part?

Response by SGT Jeremy Walton made Jan 22 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-01-22T19:46:11-05:00

Once a soldier, always a soldier. 24/7/365. You represent the military and should always conduct yourself as. Politely ask her to fix the problem and move on

Response by PO3 Devin Gallagher made Jan 22 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-01-22T21:22:52-05:00

I don't put up with attitude. If she hadn't given an attitude and had decided to care about what you had just said than it would have been different, but in this case I don't care if a million civilians were around you don't disrespect someone of a higher rank regardless of whether or not they are from your command and give them an attitude when you know they are right. That is unacceptable. I was always told that I should introduce myself rank and last name first before I say anything so that way they know who they are dealing with and then they can't give me any excuse as to why they gave me attitude later on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-01-22T21:27:46-05:00

ooooohhhhhhhh man.
excuse my expression SSG Dontre' Robinson but i believe that you approaching this soldier in public is the right thing to do regardless. With a good portion of these new soldiers joining the army, with my explicit opinion, -a good portion of them are not the best to look at and see "soldier" with many of these newer generation "soldiers" not taking what is learned in BASIC to heart. you decided to make a commitment to the Army for the time you are serving. Get off your ate up ass and get right.

I dont believe in public humiliation, however with her rolling her eyes at you i would have had no issues continuing to ask for her company information, and paying a visit. As with being a SPC (as i am) its a bit harder for me to pull off, but when i was able to have a conversation with that soldiers NCO, things turn out quite interesting.

The 7 army values are there for a reason -what happened to them? apparently its something to be ignored.

Response by SSG Victor Jones made Jan 22 at 2015 10:34 PM

2015-01-22T22:34:24-05:00

You luck the young gentleman didn't punch you. You could of did that different and they would of got it correctly done. I can get to there level and understand them and when they out and not correct they see me and they get themselves correct. If soldiers dont respect you they get you messed up

Response by SPC Stephen Medaris made Jan 22 at 2015 10:34 PM

2015-01-22T22:34:40-05:00

Even as a SPC, I would have ate her up. No way would I have let that fly in public.

Response by SPC William Vance made Jan 22 at 2015 10:54 PM

2015-01-22T22:54:55-05:00

I have been out of the service for many a year now but I do know that uniform regulations are set in stone. Had it been me, I would have identified myself, asked her to move away from people and informed her of the violation. If the attitude came, I would have recorded it and taken the pic you did. Then I would have returned to the nearest post and visited the MP's. At the very least they could ensure proper attire and uniform regulations are stressed at daily formations of companies, etc.

Response by CPL Benjamin Stengel Dizz-knee made Jan 22 at 2015 11:12 PM

2015-01-22T23:12:20-05:00

As a former SPC I would have jumped down her throat politely at first till she got the attitude then taken her to the side and smoked hertill all the wallsin the mall were sweating.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 4:00 AM

2015-01-23T04:00:57-05:00

I would have pulled her to the side after she said yes. Let myself be known as an NCO. Properly fix yourself and show respect to this uniform.

Response by SFC Phil Hillesheim made Jan 23 at 2015 7:03 AM

2015-01-23T07:03:49-05:00

If you get an attitude, take a picture with your phone and send it to the post Command Sergeant's Major and let the chain of command take care of it.

Response by SPC Dana Carter made Jan 23 at 2015 7:29 AM

2015-01-23T07:29:25-05:00

If you're not going to be professional at least look it!!! that UNIFORM is to be worn with pride at all times! I respect it like I respect our flag because it stands for something don't let soldiers who know better sully it!

Response by SSG Jim Husselman made Jan 23 at 2015 7:49 AM

2015-01-23T07:49:36-05:00

As leaders we have to do the hard things daily and any more the young troops think on occasion that the rules and regs only count for others and on post. But the truth is those of us who are true service members know you do the right thing even when no one is there to notice. We have to use tact but the correction should be made to maintain the proper military image/ bearing and regulations. We are part of a professional organization that many have paid the ultimate price to preserve and our young service members needs to hold that close and do the right thing. It's difficult at times to make the on the spot correction but necessary. Hooaah

Response by TSgt David Holman made Jan 23 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-01-23T08:06:47-05:00

You were absolutely right to correct her. I would have gone a bit further when she got an attitude and asked her which unit she was with, and then would have informed someone in her unit about her improper wear of the uniform and disrespect when confronted.

Response by SGT Ken Pennuto made Jan 23 at 2015 8:31 AM

2015-01-23T08:31:28-05:00

It's just a lack of respect for the craft and the uniform, IMHO. When I was active, I always wore my uniform correctly and proudly. I displayed respect to my peers and leaders appropriately at all times because I believed in what I was there for, not because it was required. It bothers me to see this kind of disrespect in the ranks. I question why she is even in to begin with. She obviously has little to no self respect much less for anything remotely important. Yes it's just a uniform...but it is also a symbol of the service, the history of the the branch, reflects all that is what we all stand together and fight for everyday. So yes it's important to do it properly and not just because someone ordered you to, because you truly believe it means more.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-01-23T08:39:56-05:00

I'm in the guard and glad I don't live near any military installations. I probably would've said something to her on her side, but rolling the eyes and I would've lost it. Some of these people today who join don't get it. I like how you handled it though, with dignity and professionalism and you didn't lose your cool.

Response by MSG D Cebo made Jan 23 at 2015 8:48 AM

2015-01-23T08:48:14-05:00

sometimes the way you approach todays Soldiers can have a confrontation specially if you a are in the Civilian sector because they fill Untouchable, the best way would be, is to say good day SPC JANE DOE you have your hair undone you need to fix it thanks...... by that time you would have see her name tape, and is She come with Attitude make your Mission as an NCO go to the Post locator or your S-1 and start your research, believe me you will find her,....then.. talk to Her 1SG with counseling form on hand and RECOMMEND a Article 15 to show her how far the NCO Corp can go!...... you can also find out if THE NCO Corp in that Company is weak!! then you slam dunk them with your CSM and here as well jejejeje good luck Troop!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 8:55 AM

2015-01-23T08:55:22-05:00

Yes, I say we make the corrections immediately. Unacceptable! I know it's all wrong and we do have to say something and fix it. By the way that is not a PT cap it is a watch cap authorized with the green fleece and is not part of the IPFU.

Response by PV2 Gregory Loupe made Jan 23 at 2015 9:26 AM

2015-01-23T09:26:21-05:00

Unless she's still in training she shouldn't have even been in uniform off post

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 11:30 AM

2015-01-23T11:30:28-05:00

I'm not an nco but even as being a lower enlisted member I would still make the on the spot correction.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-01-23T12:14:53-05:00

You didn't say anything to the guy wearing the PATRIOTS jersey? So much for standards! I'm just kidding, but I sympathize with you. I often see things like that and I try to explain it to my wife, telling her that the general public sees everything and thinks SOLDIER. They think that all Soldiers curse in public, smoke on storefront sidewalks with no headgear, and all the crazy things you see people do and I get offended because that's not ME, but the public doesn't see the good stuff Soldiers do, only the bad. I can't even say anything most of the time, because I know that I'm just going to get even more upset, and it's just not worth it.

Response by SFC Bob Laverick made Jan 23 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-01-23T12:58:04-05:00

Pull her to the side, ID yourself show her your ID if not in uniform, request her ID and notify her chain of command, including her response to your request and photo of her in line.

Response by SFC Michael Poole made Jan 23 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-01-23T13:50:10-05:00

You brought it to her attention and she had no intention in correcting it. You have the pics. I would take it to her command and let them handle it.

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Jan 23 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-01-23T14:52:05-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I had a similar experience when flying home on Christmas leave last month. The day our base went on stand down, there were dozens of sailors at the airport. Of the roughly 60+ sailors travelling in uniform, there were at least a third of them who were wearing the Naval Service Uniform, which is not authorized as a travel uniform (if I'm wrong, someone please correct me).

Regardless, there was one Sailor who was sitting across from me who was sitting directly across from me wearing NSUs with the black pullover sweater without the nametag, which I know for certain is not authorized, so I said something to him, giving him the benefit of the doubt, like, "Hey, man, you forgot your nametag."

He answered sneeringly that he didn't forget it, he didn't order it for the sweater. So I said, "Oh, gotcha. You know, the sweater isn't authorized without it." He just stared at me so I said, "Maybe you can change out of the sweater and put your peacoat on?"

At this point, he said to me, "Why don't you mind your own f-ing business?"

So that's when I pretty much dropped it, because he was obviously and conspicuously agitated, so I didn't want to make a scene. When I got home, I asked my dad what I should have done (my dad is a retired Command Master Chief). His advice to me was that I probably handled it in the best way possible; I was polite, professional, and I didn't push the envelope with the guy when he got angry. As a rule of thumb, he told me that it does nobody any good to make a public scene because most of the onlookers would be civilians who don't really know any better about military life anyway, so a scene (even though I was right) only would have embarrassed the Navy.

Long story short, I would agree that you did the right thing by not pursuing it publicly in that manner, though I'm also with you in that I won't ever forget this guy if I happen to see him around base.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-01-23T14:57:06-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member and other colleagues...I have made several corrections in public areas before and do utilize the philosophy as expressed by SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas , but I remember in Basic being taught how to do this professionally and what authorities and articles supported corrections in public - both to those who you outrank and to those who outrank you. So is this not being taught anymore in the education and training?

And just a thought ....but if the unit were to have a FB/social networking page and that photo was posted I guarantee either she would see it posted as a "bad example" and hopefully be shamed never to do it again or her COC would identify her/him. The power of the phone camera and apps may be a future tool that could be integrated to prevent public "attitude" or organizationally embarrassing "ugly confrontations." what do you all think?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-01-23T15:20:26-05:00

Unfortunately this happens a lot in the NG. I asked someone to TC me to simply move a vehicle that was in the way of a loading dock, the SPC told me no. Confused I asked again " I need you to TC me to move a VIC out the way, lets go". He replied "I'm not supply, find someone else to do it". I lost my mind, especially as he did it in front of his SPC buddies, and you know coming from Active Duty, you don't disrespect an NCO like that. Well after a very loud verbal confirmation, his Squad Leader came running up to me chewing me out, asking why am I talking to his soldier like that, and he even heard the conversation. I asked why do you allow your soldiers to talk this way to NCO's, his response was simply "he is getting out in 2 months just let it go". o_O

Response by CPL David Wads made Jan 23 at 2015 4:01 PM

2015-01-23T16:01:19-05:00

Pull her to the side talk to her

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-01-23T17:37:10-05:00

in a situation such as this, in a very public area, I would have shown her my ID asked to speak with her privately where she would have the opportunity to correct herself without public embarrassment.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 5:43 PM

2015-01-23T17:43:34-05:00

well calling the person out by name on a public forum as this is not right. we as privates and such are not to call you NCO's out on a public forum or use your name with any negative conotation and as regulation does not prevent you NCO's from doing the same i personally believe that you too should show the same respect. Now i may be wrong in your opinion or the opinion of others but as NCO's you are to lead and teach and take care of your soldiers but how better to lead than by example? i say this with all do respect and all i mean to accomplish is maybe to get a very small point across that may one day make a big impact. if you would like to talk further on the subject and maybe correct me if i am wrong for saying anything about this then please feel free to message me. Id rather be corrected than be wrong and look like a fool

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-01-23T17:54:38-05:00

Pull her aside, advise her of the violation of reg and remind her of the expectation that comes with wearing the uniform. I trust she would do the right thing after someone identifies themselves. I've been guilty of a uniform violation a time or 12 when I was an junior enlisted member. Reminders are good.

Response by CAPT Phillip B. made Jan 23 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-01-23T18:52:47-05:00

I would have introduced myself and told her to correct her uniform appearance on the spot, or show me her ID and declare her unit so I could follow up on the matter later. Probably would have let it drop at that, except that if she chose the 2nd route - persisting in her jacked-up state of appearance - I would point out that she CHOSE to appear in public off-duty in uniform.

As military personnel we have two options: Wear the uniform correctly, or don't wear the uniform. There is no gray area. As to the attitude and eye-rolling, it would do nothing more than ensure that I'd chase down her command sergeant major. Always correct violations of uniform regs in a friendly, but businesslike manner (no need to be rude) - it's not a matter of taste. Wear it right, or take it off.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-01-23T21:50:55-05:00

She prob wasnt military prob the uniform of a family member

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 23 at 2015 10:28 PM

2015-01-23T22:28:02-05:00

We all have a duty to the right things, make respectful corrections, receive corrections willingly when necessary and to say it thanks... And do what needs to be done, on or off duty, and even when we are retired. You make correction, and they don't respond positively you take their done their PII and report it to their chain of command... Bn or higher... You did the right thing.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 23 at 2015 10:36 PM

2015-01-23T22:36:47-05:00

You did the right thing. We all have a duty to make respectful and professional corrections, as well as receive them when we are wrong and say thanks; especially in public. If they respond postively and fix it that is good, if not get their PII and report it to the CofC.

Response by SGT David Emme made Jan 24 at 2015 12:43 AM

2015-01-24T00:43:09-05:00

It is always appropriate in a situation like that. Would ask her to step aside and do so privately. She represents you-represents us. The question would be is if you were on base-would you correct her? Correct any soldier on base? Your still a soldier when you leave the post.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Jan 24 at 2015 1:47 AM

2015-01-24T01:47:02-05:00

Always, but, I would have pulled her aside, and mentioned it, BF aside. If she threw an attitude, I would have pressed further.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 1:57 AM

2015-01-24T01:57:04-05:00

The way soldiers in uniform look in public reflects directly back on us as an Army. Civilians see soldiers, and they usually do not know any better. But we as leaders know that they appear unprofessional and are out of regs. It is our responsibility to correct the problem, however there is certainly no need to make a huge scene in public.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 9:20 AM

2015-01-24T09:20:49-05:00

That's what's wrong with the corps today. NCO's don't quite get it! Become aware of your military authority and defend our standards! "Backbone"!!!!!

Response by MSG Martin C. made Jan 24 at 2015 12:52 PM

2015-01-24T12:52:50-05:00

You did the right thing by removing yourself from the situation the last thing you need is a public confrontation. All you can hope is that now she knows there is eyes everywhere she may opt not to do the same again. At the end of the day individuals as such are in the military for a small period of time and move on I highly doubt she is the next Audie Murphy

Response by MSG Ernest Stukes made Jan 24 at 2015 2:21 PM

2015-01-24T14:21:24-05:00

She shoes disrespect for the uniform majorly

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 3:22 PM

2015-01-24T15:22:08-05:00

You were down at PEYON-teak theater by the looks of it. Did you get her name or unit?As a SSG you should have light into her when she coped the attitude. if you take the picture (Evidence) down to the PMO if you have her name they can look her up and give you her unit. I applaude you for being willing to make the correction but you should have followed it all the way through.

Response by SGM Jesse Davis made Jan 24 at 2015 5:07 PM

2015-01-24T17:07:12-05:00

As NCO's it is our responsibility to make those corrections regardless of how uncomfortable we may feel. Anytime you fail to correct a violation you just "set a new standard." Your authority to make corrections on other military members extend beyond the boundaries of a military installation. Military members regardless of their branch of service are required to comply with legal orders or corrections of individuals senior to them. I always pulled soldiers to the side to make corrections. A major part of leadership is being able to influence others, so initially ask the violator to make the correction because he/she is representing all Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen or Marines when they wear that uniform in public. If the individual fails to comply do not simply walk away and let it go, that's not the NCO way.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-01-24T17:39:57-05:00

As an Staff Sergeant, I would have asked her to remove her headgear politely and act accordingly. What she is doing is an embarrassment to the Army and the Military. There has got to be some military bearing.

Response by CPL Matthew Pruett made Jan 24 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-01-24T17:51:14-05:00

Personally I would have asked to walk with me and inform her I am or was military and that the standards put in place by the army are not just for uniformity but to express are pride in are country are job and what we stand for and if she failed to understand that I would call her chain of command. I have done this before and I will do it again I believe if you can't wear it right then don't wear it at all last I look class As are they only authorized in public...

Response by SPC Andrew Sutton Jr. made Jan 24 at 2015 6:44 PM

2015-01-24T18:44:25-05:00

Yes, make the correction but have her step aside. Also identify yourself to her as a fellow service member.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-01-24T19:05:05-05:00

I was once given an on the spot correction. I stopped at our local mini mart in the housing area of the base. The post had put out that it was officially a no salute/no headgear zone since it was technically inside the housing area. I had my headgear on, put some stuff in the trunk and took my headgear off and put it in the trunk, as I walked to the driver's door a MSG walking in asked me if my headgear belonged on my head or in my trunk, rather than tell him about the post regulation regarding it, I apologized, retrieved my headgear and went on my way. To me it was just easier to comply no matter who was right or not. He did it in such a way that it wasn't demeaning or rude and I was certainly not looking for an incident with someone of his rank.

Response by PO2 Jerry Brooks made Jan 24 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-01-24T19:43:34-05:00

correct response..id yourself and advise the violator of the offense. then if her attitude is belligerent ask for military id, if she refuses then she puts herself in violation of multiple UCMJ, you could turn the info. to her commanding officer....Take a stand or do not get involved.

JD

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Jan 24 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-01-24T19:48:40-05:00

Your situation was difficult and wanting to correct this person's dress code is important, but doing in private usually yields better results than confronting her in public. I realize I was not there and I am sure you did the very best in the situation. I am generally speaking and certainly not wanting to accuse you of anything other than being honorable. Just trying to help base on my experiences with similar situations. Thank you for your desire to make things better.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-01-25T09:44:45-05:00

You are a better man than me.. As soon as she told me that she knew she would out of Regs and rolled her eyes it would have been game on.. I would have asked her to fix herself and if she continued with her attitude from that point forward I would have requested her unit information and called her chain of command at that moment. I have pride in everything I do and boy does it get under my skin when I see Soldiers disrespect what we do my wearing our uniform any way they want whenever they want.

I had a Soldier walk into a 7/11 store with his boots untied, pants un-bloused, hanging half way down his ass, no top on just his tan t-shirt and his head gear was on but tilt up towards the sky. I politely asked him if he was in the Army and he replied yeah what does it matter to you... So, I had him step back outside and I expressed my concern of disrespect no just to the uniform but to everyone else that wears it along side of him. He stated to me that he didn't have time to deal with an overpaid policy police so I asked for his unit information. So happens I knew most of the members in his chain of command. So due to the fact that he was continuing to be disrespectful to me I called his 1SG and he met me at the 7/11 to retrieve his Soldier. Needless to say, I don't have an issue with on the spot corrections in public. On the spot corrections are a requirement in the military. It doesn't matter what branch, rank or surrounding area. If a Soldier is wrong they need to be corrected.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 10:40 AM

2015-01-25T10:40:43-05:00

I'm retired and wondered the same thing. I sometimes travel for business and noticed some young Marines out of uniform at the airport. I wondered if would be appropriate to correct since I was retired. I contacted the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps who not only told me to make the correction, but to also let him know. I think that answers the question. But I also agree that the best approach is to pull the person aside. Our troops are "active" 24/7/365, so yes, they should be corrected.

Response by SPC Anslem Ifill made Jan 25 at 2015 11:10 AM

2015-01-25T11:10:07-05:00

You handled it appropriately

Response by SGT Quincy Jones made Jan 25 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-01-25T11:44:55-05:00

A standard not met is a new standard set

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 2:32 PM

2015-01-25T14:32:13-05:00

As an nco by not correcting her you just set a new standard. She needed to be corrected.

Response by PFC Abu Suber made Jan 25 at 2015 3:48 PM

2015-01-25T15:48:29-05:00

I'm no longer in the army but I think people who wear their uniform in public is wrong unless they have to. I use to go home and change right after I got off duty, not because I was ashamed to be in the army but that I didn't join for recognition from anyone... But if your going to wear the uniform then respect it and as an NCO I feel it's your duty to in force the rules and regs... Remember you represent the army either on or off duty...

Response by PFC Robert Daniels made Jan 25 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-01-25T20:37:02-05:00

I suppose your next line would be asshole. Picking on people, in a line, for some tickets. Why is it that people like you, have to ruin other peoples moments. Sometimes one after another.
Do you feel better? I bet that made you feel as if your GF would have more respect for you now Bubba. I'm rolling my eyes at you now, you seem like a bonafide creep. Last thing. You keep doing what your doing, you'll really have some people calling you an idiot.

Response by SPC Mathew Carlon made Jan 26 at 2015 12:31 AM

2015-01-26T00:31:48-05:00

I would have asked her unit and spoke to her 1sgt

Response by SGT Aron Houghton made Jan 26 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-01-26T11:42:22-05:00

First of all, has it been so long since i have been in that BDU's are now the proper military dress out on the town and not your dress uniform? At any rate, as the SFC from Ft. Rucker put it, walk up, show your ID and introduce yourself, ask their name and unit and then make the correction. If nothing is done, you may contact their chain of command through the info they provided. My experience says they make the correction when their name and unit are asked for. Always lead by example!

Rangers lead the way

Response by PO3 Sean Hunter made Jan 26 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-01-26T11:58:11-05:00

Well, there's your answer right there. SHES IN THE ARMY. We all know they have lower standards. You'd never see a Marine pulling that crap...

Response by WO1 Gerard S. Driscoll made Jan 26 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-01-26T12:21:43-05:00

Should have pulled her aside, Introduced yourself, Fully Identified her/him and as I have done in the past, Make the correction and then give them the opportunity to notify their chain of command b4 I did so. Then I followed up anyway and notified the company first SGT, and Commander so THEY could handle it as well.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-01-26T12:23:33-05:00

Pull her to the side and correct her our job is not a 9-5 we are and alway will be soliders, sailor, etc. We are the eye candy for our country ppl look a us for security. Wear the uniform with honor courage and commitment, with integrity.

Response by PO3 Chase Reves made Jan 26 at 2015 12:25 PM

2015-01-26T12:25:32-05:00

whoooo fuckinngggg carrrresssss

Response by CPL Joseph Alfred made Jan 26 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-01-26T12:26:43-05:00

Sh was wrong going around looking all ate up like a soup sandwich smdh

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Jan 26 at 2015 12:36 PM

2015-01-26T12:36:40-05:00

You set the new standard when you did not make the correction. Honestly, you failed as an NCO. Not trying to be harsh, but it's the truth. You're a Soldier 24/7.

Response by CW4 Jeff Buss made Jan 26 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-01-26T12:39:31-05:00

You handled it appropriately. Maybe give her a fix it or else you'll handle it with her chain of command. If a Soldier wants to make a scene in public, break contact and follow up through other means. Post locator at personnel via your chain of command, if necessary, and you should be able to get word to her chain of command.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-01-26T12:42:19-05:00

I'm willing to bet she's not in the Army.

Response by SGT Joshua Miller made Jan 26 at 2015 12:52 PM

2015-01-26T12:52:59-05:00

ha, my 1sg would have torn her apart, gotten her unit info, then stood there as her command came and ripped her apart. Thats an NCO's job. standards and discipline....

Response by SSgt Michael O'Connell made Jan 26 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-01-26T12:54:26-05:00

Simple...
Pull her aside, correct the gross violations, and if she gives any resistance or attitude, ask to see her ID, and contact her chain of command. This type of behavior, no matter what age or rank, is unacceptable.

Response by PO2 Amado C Salinas, II made Jan 26 at 2015 1:01 PM

2015-01-26T13:01:32-05:00

I was a young PO3 in the USN. I was relaxing in a public area and removed my cover. It was a Long hot day, I had competed my daily tour and was just taking a moment for ME.

I CPO (Not in Our Squadron), approached me as I relaxed. He asked if I was stationed at Coronado, and who my Command CO/XO, and CPO were. He quickly went on to state how well I looked in my Uniform. Then asked if I had intended to purposely disrespect the Men/Women that went before me in UNIFORM, and if I didn't appreciate WHY I wore the UNIFORM, he would be glad to inform My Command, so they may instruct me in Proper protocol.

My 1st thought was to ignore his "POLITE DEMEANOR" ( we all know how a CPO can be should he be RILED), I chose instead to RESPECT the CPO for his consideration and TIME to stop and present me the OPPORTUNITY to REFLECT on my DUTIES and RESPONSIBILITIES as a Military NCO on my personal time in UNIFORM in PUBLIC. I represented ALL the MEN/WOMEN at that moment.

The Following Morning @ O6:45 Monday at COMMAND MUSTER... My name was called out by "THE COMMAND CPO". He informed me in-front of the COMMAND about my encounter with the CPO I had on Friday afternoon.

The COMMAND CPO then proceeded to inform me of WHO the CPO was ( who stopped to talk to me)... and how WELL RESPECTED the CPO was in the U.S. NAVY. ( Needless to say I was thankful for my decision to be RESPECTFUL/MINDFUL and Courteous to the CPO) ...

And in-case you were wondering....YES.. I still had KP for the WEEK. But I had the opportunity to GROW as a MAN in UNIFORM !

Response by SSG Christopher K. made Jan 26 at 2015 1:01 PM

2015-01-26T13:01:47-05:00

You try to do the right thing and step off out of ear shot.. and if they don't want to do that then you correct them right there. But always maintain a professional attitude about it Don't loose your mind on them.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-01-26T13:08:57-05:00

I cant stand seeing things like this in public it even annoys me to see it on a TV show or movie, but anyhow I think the best way to handle the situation considering you are not on duty or in uniform I would show the individual your military identification ask them if their in the military as you did and ask what unit they are from and then notify them of what they are doing wrong off to the side. If they give attitude and don't comply you use the information about her unit and notify her chain of command. PFC REDMAN

Response by LTC Omar Hamada made Jan 26 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-01-26T13:09:17-05:00

As an NCO, you must use wisdom, but I believe you do have an obligation to guide and correct those under you. In this situation, I believe you acted appropriately in calling her attention to it, yet not making a scene. Too bad you couldn't follow up with her CO.

When I was a young officer (O3), I was out of reg in an airport. An O6 politely but firmly reprimanded me. Though his reproof stung, I never forgot it, and his reprimand stuck.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-01-26T13:19:46-05:00

It seems the soldier is going to a movie. My guess is wearing the uniform to possibly get a discount. Still wrong and I say you should have made the correction.

Response by SPC Antonio Massaro made Jan 26 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-01-26T13:21:15-05:00

Times like this made me glad I had left the army. I am not an NCO, but still, that's just wrong (and a total violation of the Army Regulation - AR 670-1 - as well as the UCMJ for disrespecting an NCO). She could have worn civilian clothes and roll her eyes when he approached her and we would not know the better (unless they both are stationed within the same company, battalion, duty station where they see each other day in and day out).

I have a tendency of losing it when I see someone disgrace the uniform as such; and even more when they cop an attitude with me knowing they are in the wrong as I was trying to be nice about it.

Good thing I never done stuff like that as I take great pride when I was in the service; and I still do to this day.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:34 PM

2015-01-26T13:34:00-05:00

I ran into a situation sort of like this once. I was at the mall and there where several reservist walking around. One had on a fluffy white polo jacket. As I approached I noticed she was standing next to a SSG, so assuming he was possibly her team or squad leader I introduced myself and asked if I could have a word with him. He indulged me and I asked him about the soldier...to which he replied by basically telling me to F*** off and I had no business correcting other peoples soldiers. I at that point really had no idea what to do being that he outranked me and was allowing his soldier to completely ignore the standards.

Response by 1LT Richard C. made Jan 26 at 2015 1:42 PM

2015-01-26T13:42:20-05:00

You did what you were suppose to.. be that reminder. Then move along. No need for a scene, it was obvious that they lacked the basic discipline to do what is right.

Maybe a gentle reminder that she should go use the restroom to square away what she did have one..but then they might have pulled out the stress card or reported you for harassment.

Do you part and lead by example.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made Jan 26 at 2015 1:45 PM

2015-01-26T13:45:50-05:00

You ask for her unit and first line supervisor. Then you let her know that it does not matter if she is on or off duty, UCMJ still applies. If she wants to have an attitude, her 1st SGT can always be brought into this.

Response by SGT Robert Hausman made Jan 26 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-01-26T13:50:48-05:00

Yea as an ex Army Sgt. I would have pulled her aside, and explained to her first off......just because you may not be "working" you represent our Military....where ever you are 24-7 365. So I suggest you fix yourself, and go read the AR 670-1. I also would have found out who her NCO was and told him/her about it. and as far as rolling her eyes at me....that would have pissed me off. if she was my soldier she would be made an example....she would know the regulations really well! :)

Response by SFC David Ocasio made Jan 26 at 2015 1:51 PM

2015-01-26T13:51:38-05:00

Always. Never hesitate to correct when due. ts a new Army theses days. Roling her eyes is a form of disrespect towards any one of a higher rank. First introduce yourself ( Show them your military ID card)pull the person to the side explain and ask her what unit shes in. If she refuses to then get her information and Im sure that you can find out what unit shes in by obtaining that information. The lack of respect and discipline is overwhelming theses days.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-01-26T13:57:30-05:00

The fact that she understood that she was out of regs and didn't care reflects poorly on her own chain of command, not really on you. In my opinion, if you are an NCO you have earned the right to correct soldiers who knowingly and flagrantly violate AR 670-1. However, I think you made the proper call to not scuff her up in public, as that could have potentially reflected poorly on you and drawn negative attention to the uniform. Possibly, pulling her aside to discuss the regs and why she didn't care may have been your best best, but I don't know the entire situation, such as the amount of time your had to make the correction. All in all, you did the right thing.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-01-26T13:57:52-05:00

There is regulatory guidance on this. I had a similar situation happen recently to include a public place and attitude. I backed off once it became apparent it would create a scene.

I noted the unit patch, name and rank of the individual. I looked him up in the global using the advanced search (to narrow down rank and unit quickly). Once I had a full name, I put his name in facebook to verify it was him. Then I called his S1. After about 5 minutes I had his 1SGs email. I notified the 1SG and he emailed back that he would square away the troop. The bottom line is, the squeeze was worth the juice. The Soldier needed discipline... NCO's are required by regulation (law) to enforce standards. PERIOD.

So here is the reg: FM 7-22.7, para 2-35.

Response by SrA Andrew Morel made Jan 26 at 2015 1:59 PM

2015-01-26T13:59:21-05:00

I would like to make a response to this. I served in the AF as an SP from 90-94. There was never a doubt in a respect level from the Lowest to the highest Rank with in the CoC. However I now have a son in the Army still in school at Ft.Lee (94H). He is a bright young Soldier. I am proud of him. He told me stories out of Basic, that literally scared the shit out of me. The Army higher NCO have Zero respect for Capts. and Below. He sited many instances in front of recruits in which a DS would belittle a Company Commander after he or she left a formation or inspection. This never happened in the AF when I served. I wonder if this is a fundamental break down across the board starting at the Basic Training level. Or is the Army Standards so low that they are dragging the bottom of the barely of humanity to fill their ranks. I am not being disrespectful. But I feel an interesting point and question to this debate.

Response by SPC Matt Phillips made Jan 26 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-01-26T14:03:15-05:00

First thing that pops in my mind is why would you go to the movies in uniform? Not that i dont have pride in my uniform but, but as soon as i didn't need it on i took it off.

Response by SSG Carl Sensabaugh II made Jan 26 at 2015 2:28 PM

2015-01-26T14:28:42-05:00

After she said yes to knowing she was violating the regs, I would have identified myself and asked her to step away from the others. Then get all her information, made the correction and let her be (also notified her chain the next business day). If she refused to ID herself. I would have then just dropped it but try to find out where she is stationed and notified her chain.

Response by GySgt Thomas Beran made Jan 26 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-01-26T14:31:51-05:00

If you did not make the correction you did not deserve your rank. The regulations are their for a reason. In the Corps if I saw someone like that I always asked them for their ID. Then I would ask what unit they were in and report them to their 1st Sgt.

Response by SGT Renwick Jiles made Jan 26 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-01-26T14:34:48-05:00

If you are truly still on active duty status and or possess a valid military ID the has you name and rank on it, you should have corrected her and pointed out her mistakes and gotten the information of her NCOIC to inform him/her about their soldier's blatant disrespect of the Army reg.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-01-26T14:52:51-05:00

The saddest thing is that she knows she's out of regs in a public place, where people might look at her and think she represents the military, and doesn't care. Some people think the military is just a 9-5 job where they are sometimes inconvenienced to do things like field problems or deployments. I remember having to wrestle with the question of whether the Army is a profession or not. With continual learning, a core ethical standard, and the fact that we police our own ranks, you could say it is. When you get a service member who blatantly disregards regulations or tenets they are supposed to live by, than they are making an argument for the contrary. I hope she fixes herself, but I really don't have that much faith that she will. Sometimes people need to remember they joined the Military, and said they would abide by it's rules. The military didn't come and join me.

Response by SrA Ken Collins made Jan 26 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-01-26T14:55:05-05:00

You did the right thing by approaching her and it is good that you didn't make a scene around civilians. Maybe you could have asked her if it bothered her that she was representing the Army in a negative way.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-01-26T14:55:08-05:00

I try to keep in mind that I would not want anyone to disrespect me in front of my family and act accordingly. Sometimes it woks out well other times it doesn't.. But either way I sleep better knowing I said something.

Response by TSgt David Rigby made Jan 26 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-01-26T15:18:54-05:00

I had something similar when I was on emergency leave in my hometown, a good 70 miles from any military base, and the nearest being a Guard base. I saw an Airman walking around in Wal-Mart in his ABUs with his girl, talking on the phone, with his hand in his pocket. My wife saw the look on my face, and just said to be nice! :) I was in civilian clothes, and after I introduced myself I asked him what 36-2903 said about walking with your hands in your pockets. He said that he wasn't supposed to, but no one there knew any better so he did anyway! I asked him what his definition of integrity was, to which he replied doing what is right even when no one is looking. So I asked him, how was he demonstrating his integrity? He corrected himself and apologized. I left him by reminding him that to most people, HE was the only Air Force they would ever see!

Response by CW2 Scott Quaife made Jan 26 at 2015 3:35 PM

2015-01-26T15:35:39-05:00

SSG, as a former Warrant and enlisted NCO I can see your professionalism,especially at a private facility. However, as leaders it is a responsibility to correct them on the spot and if not threaten to involve their chain of command. Now unless it didn't phase this soldier one bit, but I hope she will have sense enough in the near future to comply with the regs. I know I have corrected both officers and enlisted alike and will do so even today because it is a reflection on the military in general. Thanks for posting. Perhaps digging in and finding out what unit Spc Ware belongs to will make her think twice of her neglectful decision.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-01-26T15:46:25-05:00

Am I the only person who's wondering why this soldier is even going to the movies in uniform in the first place?

I've been stationed at plenty of posts where they conduct IET (Benning, Jackson, Eustis) and I've never even seen AIT troops in uniform when they have an off-post pass. The only exception would be BT privates on graduation day, but they have to wear Class As.

I think the only time I went to a movie theater in uniform was during a Graf rotation, and I didn't have to leave the cantonment area for that.

Response by PO2 John Jamieson made Jan 26 at 2015 3:48 PM

2015-01-26T15:48:51-05:00

I would have asked for her ID and what command she was attached to. Then made a nice call to her command (Master Sargent) ? Any Army correct me if I'm wrong with that. In the Navy it was the Command Master Chief. And as an NCO I too would have pulled her to the side and straightened her out. If your gonna wear the uniform you better damn well wear it correctly or face the consequence's of your own stupidity.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 3:50 PM

2015-01-26T15:50:40-05:00

Wow, this forum and the pot shots being taken by those who post are truly not value added at all. Makes one not want to share an opinion (right, wrong, or otherwise).

Response by MSG Greg Murry made Jan 26 at 2015 4:05 PM

2015-01-26T16:05:56-05:00

If you were in uniform, she would have paid more attention to you but if you are in civilian clothes it's not a good idea to say much more than "square yourself away." Police officers seldom attempt to make an arrest in civilian clothes, perception is a powerful motivator.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 4:27 PM

2015-01-26T16:27:21-05:00

I would've corrected her in a calm, collective civilized manner. I also would've told her that there's no point in getting upset because I know you know better and left it like that.

Response by SGT John Inholt made Jan 26 at 2015 4:45 PM

2015-01-26T16:45:19-05:00

I feel that anytime is the correct time. First of all, if the young lady was as proud of the uniform as I was, and the soldiers I served with she would have not been wearing it incorrectly in public.
She put herself into an embarrassing situation, maybe the humiliation of being called out would prevent it from happening again. I have a similar problem here in civilian life, guys are told to button their shirts or tuck them in. Their is response is that they are not on the clock, my response is that we have a locker room, my response is "start bringing your street clothes to work and change in and out of them before you leave the building."
It's about having pride in what you do, and where you work.
I do believe as an NCO you should have absolutely called her out. Whether in private or public would have been her choice, depending on attitude.
SCOUTS OUT.

Response by TSgt Andrea Taylor made Jan 26 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-01-26T16:48:33-05:00

I agree with all of the responses. Introduce yourself ask for her unit and CO. 99% of the time just a asking those questions will persuade them to take corrective measures and will not have to take it any further.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-01-26T16:59:27-05:00

I would have done the same because I am only a spc. Myself. I would however do my and reported it to her first line leas er. As a spc I have been a team leader in combat and state side. I appreciated it when people brought it to me instead of handling themselves.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-01-26T16:59:27-05:00

I would have had to correct her. This is a negative outlook on the Army. We have standards for a reason, I tell my Soldiers all the time. No one put a gun to your head to join, so if you have an issue with the rules and regulations, then you can easily be removed from your position. Uncle Sam doesn't need that many bodies anymore.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-01-26T17:32:13-05:00

I agree with everything SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas had to say. I also feel like it's a shame that 1SGT Joe Nicholson came at the NCO so aggressively and took SMSgt response so personally. RallyPoint is a forum where we all have the right to express our opinions and no one should ever feel that they have to stop commenting on a topic they care about because someone wants to argue with them.

Response by SSG Steve Cole made Jan 26 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-01-26T17:40:11-05:00

I think all you could have done is to get her ID and unit. Then snap a picture of her in her attire with your phone and show it to her command. Since she know's she's in violation and doesn't care there's really nothing you can do about it in a public, civilian place.

Civilians will take her side because they strongly believe everyone has a right to dress as they wish. However, upon entering the Army, this little girl relinquished her right to self-expression through her wardrobe and is subject to UCMJ, which the civilians around her just won't understand. So, you'd just end up making a scene and being made to look like a complete asshole. There's simply no reason to allow yourself to appear thata way to civilians because you're better than that.

Response by Sgt David Holmes made Jan 26 at 2015 5:46 PM

2015-01-26T17:46:43-05:00

at least when I was in the Corps, it was very common that someone who was f-d up out in town or on base, would get corrected. It was not that rare to see a young Marine getting an ass chewing at the mall in Jacksonville for being bag nasty. Of course there was the small percentage of NCO's or SNCO's who were jerks going looking for excuses to go on a power trip but most of the time it was an NCO/SNCO that wanted to reinforce that you are a Marine 24/7/365 and are always accountable for your actions. Don't know if things have changed

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-01-26T17:47:31-05:00

Quietly pulling them away from any civilian travelers they have with them is the right answer. I travel TDY a lot and spend a lot of time in airports. This is one of the biggest places you see problems. Normally, the ones that are jacked up are not traveling alone. If in civilian clothes (as I am 99% of the time when traveling, I will grab a random Soldier in uniform (normally someone of peer level that I want to make the correction on), introduce myself, point out the infraction and ask him/her to go fix it. This keeps it from having to be confrontational and teaches a few lessons. 1. you never know who is watching 2. the Soldier I grab to explain what is wrong gets a lesson in on the spot corrections, and looking out for their fellow Soldier 3. It is normally less embarrassing to the Soldier when it comes from a peer who says "hey, that Chief Warrant Officer over there just pointed out X and asked me to come fix you. Non-confrontational, correction made, lesson learned. The only way I feel the need to interact personally is if I cannot find another Soldier (preferably NCO) or the Soldier blows off the correction.
It's not the way, but a way. Many times in airports, Soldiers actually don't know better, especially when it is a group that has just finished basic training and headed for AIT. Drill Sergeants don't think to teach Soldiers about not walking through the airport with your Beats headphones around your neck - that is definitely not an issue in BCT, because they don't have that stuff. Either way, most of the time, Soldiers want to do the right thing, they just need to be afforded the opportunity to be reminded of what right looks like.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 6:00 PM

2015-01-26T18:00:24-05:00

I say it's pretty much always appropriate, and I say pretty much because tact is important, especially when you are in civilians, granted rolling eyes and getting an attitude should not happen, and the above situation could have escalated rather quickly, but the SSG in the above situation did not seem to be wrong in the way nor in what he did, that Specialist was definitely wrong for getting attitude.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-01-26T18:08:37-05:00

If you are going to be in uniform there is an expectation that if you are violating army regulations than you are inviting fellow Soldiers to correct you.

Response by SPC Robert Treat made Jan 26 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-01-26T18:10:36-05:00

I'm an Army Veteran, and when I was in ('88 to '91), if troop wasn't correct, he would be standing tall before "the Man". That's how it should continue to be, try the polite respectful way BUT as soon as there is attitude, or disrespectful body language, now its time to get in that A**, and remind them of just who they are talking too....period!

Response by CPL Chris Sully made Jan 26 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-01-26T18:12:14-05:00

I would have took her out side remove both from the situation and corrected her... If she gave attitude then pulled my cat card smoked her all then stopped the army is getting soft..... I got smoked for dumb crap like that

Response by SPC John Gillaspie made Jan 26 at 2015 6:33 PM

2015-01-26T18:33:26-05:00

She not a solider cuz a true one would be in compliance

Response by PO2 Kevin Farrell made Jan 26 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-01-26T18:52:13-05:00

I think you did the right thing in making the correction. Hopefully she will think better of it before going out next time. It is up to her. I remember coming out of Penn Station in Manhattan back in 1980 in my Navy dress blues (Crackerjacks) with no cover on. I heard someone behind me yell, "Sailor, where is your cover!". I quickly reached into my pocket and got out my Dixie Cup. Never saw who called after me, but never forgot again to always where my uniform properly with pride.

Response by SPC Peter Henry made Jan 26 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-01-26T19:00:49-05:00

I would have pulled the soldier to side and corrected her, furthermore if she displayed an attitude i would have informed her that there are consequences on and off the military installation. We all have a reponsibility to conduct ourselves accordingly. Furthermore NCO’s and officer command at all times..

Response by Cpl Peter Cila made Jan 26 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-01-26T19:14:11-05:00

While there are exceptions to this rule, "only on base", is it allowed, but not off base....you should never want to be seen off base with a uniform on....

Response by TSgt Phil Textor made Jan 26 at 2015 7:22 PM

2015-01-26T19:22:31-05:00

SMS Thomas. If they get mouthy, take a pic and report it to base commander.

Response by SPC Charles Lockhart made Jan 26 at 2015 7:40 PM

2015-01-26T19:40:31-05:00

Just remember where YOU are, some places will not tolerate you causing a problem no matter how right you are.

Response by SSG James(Joe) Mockbee made Jan 26 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-01-26T19:51:09-05:00

Ask for her 1st SGT's name and unit. Tell her of her short comings and how the "civilians of this great nation appreciates her service!". Follow up with her unit's first sergeant. No real right answer...but wrong is wrong.....right

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 7:52 PM

2015-01-26T19:52:40-05:00

It is truly sad to see the Army change in the ways that it has. Soldiers back-talking and questioning NCOs, attitudes given for on the spot corrections, and many other things that show that we, as the backbone of our Army, are failing to be leaders.
When I came into the Army, I made sure of many things before going out;
1. If I was going out, I wasn't in uniform... I couldn't wait to get it off of me.
2. If I had to wear a uniform, I made sure that it was correct, because you never know who you are going to run into (I actually ran into the Garrison CSM for Fort Carson at Laguardia Airport in New York during a layover... fortunately I wasn't in uniform)
3. If someone did correct me on a deficiency, I went to parade rest, listened to them, and fixed it... no sass or attitude given... because like I stated in the second point, you don't know who you are going to run into and until they identify themselves, you don't know who they are.
I did these things for several reasons... Respect, Pride, and FEAR!!!
We had discipline because we both respected and feared our NCOs. And EVERY NCO had each other's back... NCOs did not take sides, they did not care if another NCO made a correction that they missed, and they smoked the DOG SHIT out of us when we were ate-up.
Now, it's the other way around! It seems like our Army has developed into a place where NCOs are AFRAID to do their job. They are afraid to lay down the hammer because a Joe might complain about it. There are SO many programs in effect now that "protect" the Junior Enlisted that it makes my job, as well as every other NCO, almost impossible.
These new policies do not protect anyone. This is the FUCKING ARMY!!! If someone hurts your feelings or inconveniences you, drink your cup of "Huah" and drive the fuck on...
Soldiers are smart. They will always find ways to bend the rules to meet their wants. There will always be people who abuse legitimate programs (AER, SHARP, EO) which winds up making things worse for everyone.

With all that said, I am done venting... and to answer your question, you should have asked to see her Military ID. Write her name and get her unit... Even if you do nothing with it, she will know that you are not playing around and not just hassling her. Or you could have explained to her that while she is in uniform, she is a liaison for the US Army, and that she should take pride in being in the correct uniform. When I see soldiers off-post in an incorrect uniform, my mind goes immediately to stolen valor.
The next thing that you could remind her is that as a representative of the Army, every civilian there looks at her like she is a Superhero. She needs to play the part and get in the right superhero costume or take it off and never wear it again. Go home and get right.
In case you can't tell, I'm not afraid any more. I have been through the worst the Army can do when someone falsely accuses me of something... I have worked hard to get back to where I am at now and I am better for having been through it and bouncing back. No fear left.

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 7:53 PM

2015-01-26T19:53:32-05:00

Were you in uniform too? Yes? Then pull her to the side make her fix herself. If your answer is no, then you did your part. you told her she looked like ass and went on with your business. My opinion is that if you're not in uniform then you're not really in the position to do much beyond "hey you're out of regs you should probably do something about that."

Response by CPO William Brown made Jan 26 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-01-26T19:55:31-05:00

I would have introduced myself and asked the woman if I may have a moment of her time, then I would have reminded her of the uniform regs. If she didn't like it, I would have invited her to contact me while on duty for further discussion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 7:56 PM

2015-01-26T19:56:58-05:00

I should have quite corrected her

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-01-26T19:57:43-05:00

I would have pulled her to the side and corrected. If nothing else I would have gotten her name and reported it to her chain. It's unacceptable. It's not an off duty uniform for wear anymore. The eye roll alone would have set me off.

Response by LTC Edmund Lizotte made Jan 26 at 2015 7:58 PM

2015-01-26T19:58:42-05:00

Sounds like an old situational leadership lab of the old days.

On the spot corrections are just that, on the spot. SMSgt Thomas makes a good point to correct in private and praise in public. One way to approach the situation might have been to politely pull the Soldier aside, determine her unit and to address the transgression in a very soft but firm voice. Also, let her know that you will inform her chain of command as well.

Another way to approach it might have been to find out the young soldier's unit and notify the chain of command about the situation and allow them to correct the situation. Not to say or do anything shows a lack of respect for being a leader, which will in turn lead to a break down in discipline in a unit.

One concern I have is how things have changed to think a Soldier would even think of being out of uniform like this in a public place. I am an Old Soldier, and we were "raised" in the Army not to behave in such a manner. If one did, action was quick and the consequences harsh. Regardless, respect for rank is respect for rank irrespective of one's unit of assignment.

Just my thoughts.

Response by SSG Clifton F. made Jan 26 at 2015 8:19 PM

2015-01-26T20:19:47-05:00

This is the "quality" of our troops these days. No pride or respect for self , unit, or country. This is why I got out at 15 years instead of getting corrected by the chain of command for being too old school. It also fuels my fears about future wars and the need to be ready to fight the future wars at home.

Response by SFC Ricardo Ruiz made Jan 26 at 2015 8:30 PM

2015-01-26T20:30:09-05:00

Noting with regret that "the armed forces are no longer representative of the people they serve," retired Admiral Stanley Arthur has expressed concern that "more and more, enlisted as well as officers are beginning to feel that they are special, better than the society they serve." Such tendencies, concluded Arthur, are "not healthy in an armed force serving a democracy."

Response by SSG Danny Cofield made Jan 26 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-01-26T20:37:20-05:00

No correct her no matter what up hold the standards we have been taught. Rolling your eyes don't release you from your obligations!

Response by CSM Stuart C. O'Black made Jan 26 at 2015 8:39 PM

2015-01-26T20:39:05-05:00

AR 600-20: All persons in the military service are required to strictly obey and promptly execute the legal orders of their lawful seniors. Take action consistent with Army regulation in any case where a Soldier’s conduct violates good order and military discipline.

Para 4-4: When military police are not present, the senior officer, WO, or NCO present will obtain the Soldier’s name, grade, social security number, organization, and station. The information and a statement of the circumstances will be sent to the Soldier’s commanding officer without delay.

**You can actually detain and arrest in extreme cases.

Para 4-5: Officers, WOs, NCOs, and petty officers of the Armed Forces are authorized and directed to quell all quarrels, frays, and disorders among persons subject to military law and to apprehend participants. Those exercising this authority should do so with judgment and tact. Personnel so apprehended will be returned to the jurisdiction of their respective Service as soon as practical. Confinement of females will be according to AR 190–47.

Thoughts:

We never remove ourselves from the situation. She is wrong and you have an obligation to correct. SMSgt Thomas does as I usually do - if there are family members present I pull them aside. If not I make the correction on the spot. Remember, every time you pass by an issue and don't correct and fix then you have set a new standard. You just told her she was right and reinforced her opinion.

What could be worse is if someone sees you walk by and not fix an issue as a NCO. We will go through extraordinary measures for our battles downrange and even risk our lives for one another. However, we get home it seems like some battles won't even set each other straight.

CSM OB

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-01-26T20:42:17-05:00

Immediately!!!

Response by SSG Keith Chavey made Jan 26 at 2015 8:45 PM

2015-01-26T20:45:48-05:00

Praise in public, correct in private...though that is a very unique situation..on base, it is easy to enforce uniform violations because they are in an environment that the populace is occustomed to such things..in this case I , stress the I, feel that a private descrete reminder is much more effective, as this troop seems proud of her uniform, but doesn't understand the regulation completely..she needs training more than public correction.. I live by an Air Force base that seems to set the standard locally..pick your battles..

Response by SGT John West made Jan 26 at 2015 8:56 PM

2015-01-26T20:56:43-05:00

Sadly, it's too common in today's military. My daughter in her JROTC program is more military than many of the young soldiers/airmen I see out in uniform. What saddens me is that if if's the duty day (0700 - 1700) they're normally respectful and in proper uniform. When it's after 1700, all bets are off; trousers not bloused, hats not worn, hair improper. And, in today's world, none of us know what background a young soldier has and their reaction.

Hopefully, someone in her chain will see this thread and enlighten the young Specialist. And, like SMSgt Thomas said, I would have asked to speak to her alone and corrected her tactfully. If she then becomes disrespectful, you as a senior NCO have the lawful authority to have her show you her ID and notify her BN CS.

Response by SMSgt Stephen Winner made Jan 26 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-01-26T21:13:45-05:00

Unfortunately, we cannot "jack them up" anymore. We might "offend" them, hurt their feelings, etc. The libtards in charge have allowed a steady deterioration of discipline, and common sense. We are so screwed!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-01-26T21:21:37-05:00

I would have made the correction privately.

Response by PO2 Frances Smart made Jan 26 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-01-26T21:22:12-05:00

Something I learned in military leadership school... praise in public, reprimand in private.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Jan 26 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-01-26T21:23:01-05:00

I traveled a great deal in my last position on active duty and was in the unfortunate position of seeing many such violations in airports (both while I was in uniform and while I was in civilian clothes.) I often would walk up and stick my hand out to introduce myself. Instinct would usually prevail and they would shake my hand, and I would do a two-hand shake, and state my rank, name, and position while I was holding their hand. At that point I could gauge if they KNEW that they were making a mistake (facial expression and instinctive recoil.) That would dictate my next words, but either way I would let them know that as a senior NCO I had to help them out by ensuring they knew the proper way to.... or the regulations concerning..... And if they were a senior NCO or officer I would point out that there were undoubtedly junior personnel in the airport, whether or not they were in uniform, and that we were responsible for setting the example at all times, even in transit. I would empathize with their plight if they were exhausted (especially on long flight legs) and may not have had a choice about being in uniform, but put it "so I understand how you could overlook something so minor - I wanted to let you know so you could take care of it right away before it becomes an issue." A cheerful and helpful demeanor, making sure I greeted the person and introduced myself, and maintaining my bearing usually did the trick. If they asked to see my ID I produced it. If they blew me off (only happened a couple of times in all those years) I asked what unit they were with and took a pic of their unit patch and their face, then tracked down their CSM to let them know how that Soldier responded.

Response by CPL Carole Krempley made Jan 26 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-01-26T21:24:53-05:00

It's been years since I served on active duty, so I'm sorry if I am going to sound harsh; I feel that not only should you have corrected her on the spot, but truly think it was your obligation as an NCO to do so. Perhaps I would have pulled her to the side, but at the very least I would have taken her name and unit info and reported her. At the end of our exchange she would know AR 670-1. Intense corrective training is what that young lady needs. Send her my way when she separates:)

Seriously, don't be afraid to be the example for the next generation of leadership. Exhibit the behavior required to lead and hold those young soldiers accountable when needed. You will be doing them a huge favor.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-01-26T21:32:40-05:00

SSG Donte you did the right thing. The best thing to do in these situations is to attempt to get any information on the soldier prior to informing them of their mistakes so if they do not comply you can take it up their chain. I would have approached and made conversation asking how long she been in and what unit she belonged to ease her tensions. Then I would have identified myself and make the correction in hopes she would comply. If she would not then you at least have her information to contact her unit.

Response by SSG Mike Burson made Jan 26 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-01-26T21:45:18-05:00

I was that NCO who would call other soldiers out regardless of rank. It all depends on how you approached the situation and your demeanor. There were times that I got pretty heated but my point was always made.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-01-26T21:53:17-05:00

Yeah, you could've done more, but I can understand your reasoning for not doing it. Most of us have probably been in at least one situation where we thought to ourselves, "Yeah, I probably should've said something." I once saw a female wearing her rope on her Blues wrong. We were in the commissary, but was in two different lines. I didn't want to get out of my line to correct her. Thinking back, I probably should've done it.

One more question you could've asked her was, "And you're not fixing yourself because....?" Of course, you do it in a tactful, non-threatening way. The reason I say non-threatening is to show that you're making the correction based on WISDOM and not RANK.

Response by SPC Curt Dennis made Jan 26 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-01-26T22:01:21-05:00

True story: I’m going to use neutral pronouns and avoid all reference to race – as that is NOT the point, so bear with me.

I am a Department of the Army Civilian police officer, and was working on what’s considered a small installation. We received a report of a disturbance at the PX. Upon arrival I meet up with the “complainant” and the “subject” and a witness.

It would seem that the complainant was attempting to make a purchase at the PX (remember this is a small post so there are no ID checkers at the door only at the cash register.) but had forgotten their ID and was attempting to “bully” the cashier into completing the purchase. The person behind, “the subject” spoke up in an attempt to make an on the spot correction and advise the complainant that they were in the wrong in asking the cashier to violate the regulations and that it was causing a back up for other patrons. (The witness confirms this conversation.) The complainant concedes, in a huff, and walks off.

Next the complainant goes over to the dry cleaners to get insignia sewn on. Coincidently, the “subject” then also went to the dry cleaners to get BDUs out for the next week (dating the incident here). The complainant goes ballistic, insinuating that the subject was following or stalking. The complainant was loudly berating the subject of this incident, screaming – shouting – carrying on. Hopefully you get the idea. (again, this was confirmed by the SEVERAL witnesses at this point)

I meet up with the involved parties, discovered that the complainant, an E-4 wanted the subject arrested for the alleged stalking and possible assault. The “subject” an O-5 (who was also the installation force protection officer at the time, and known to me) explained to me what happened, confirmed by the witnesses (both separately and confidentially).

I then attempted to explain to the E-4 that in or out of uniform, once identified as a person subject to military regulations or the UCMJ, they are responsible to “put their game face on” and have a professional military bearing. The colonel was not trying to be a jerk, the officer was just making it fair for every one. Additionally, just because the O-5 also went into the dry cleaners (BTW then next store over) there was no stalking involved, mere coincidence. Again, before making a scene the E-4 should’ve evaluated the situation and acted with military bearing.

In the end, the E-4 walks away to retrieve the ID card; the O-5 is questioning whether or not intervention was the way to go, but was, in the end, reassured by that appreciative cashier.

MORAL of the story: In MY OPINION - make the corrections. Military bearing is the responsibility of every PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER, SAILOR, MARINE, AIRMAN and COAST GUARDSMAN. Without it we are just as the civilian communities sometimes see us: as thugs – all dressed alike ready to kill babies and napalm villages.

Response by SGT Tyler Webber made Jan 26 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-01-26T22:15:22-05:00

I'm with SFC Caro and SMSgt Thomas on this one. Make the correction. Just use tact. If the Soldier gets out of line, utilize the command structure. Get that info and go have a chat with their leadership. It is your responsibility to fulfill your obligations inherent to your role as an NCO regardless of whether it is comfortable or not. No one ever said it would be easy. But that is why you are doing it. You have what it takes. The fact that you had the intestinal fortitude to even say anything in the first place proves that you are in the right position. But nothing as a an NCO or a Soldier for that matter should ever be done half way. Thanks for your service!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 10:58 PM

2015-01-26T22:58:13-05:00

Make the correction, but don't make a scene. Best thing to do at that point is get the unit, or name and rank if they wont give it to you and find them on the global. Find them on facebook then hand them over to their chain of command. Don't go any higher up the chain unless it becomes a huge issue. Pictures like this hot mess is the last thing the Army needs right now. What location were you at?

Response by SGT Steve Schroeder made Jan 26 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-01-26T23:04:38-05:00

As an old NCO that just PROUDLY watched my son graduate Basic Training, I think that a simple reminder of AR 670-1 and the fact that everyone in uniform represents ALL in uniform, we need to hold the standard

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Jan 26 at 2015 11:54 PM

2015-01-26T23:54:20-05:00

you did well for the moment, I could of have had her move away from the group and point to her, her problems and if she couldn't understand then, I could find her while at work and then remind her that the regulation are to be follow wherever you are. After showing her my ID of course, making sure her chain of command knows what she was doing.

Response by SSgt Kacee Mercado made Jan 27 at 2015 12:01 AM

2015-01-27T00:01:15-05:00

Wtf is she doing at the movies in uniform? ??... I hate when people are just out and about doing anything in uniform!

Response by SPC Mike McCoy made Jan 27 at 2015 12:07 AM

2015-01-27T00:07:09-05:00

Get her name and unit and advise her chain of command.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Jan 27 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-01-27T00:08:19-05:00

I work at the Ft. Jackson Main exchange in SC, where I have seeing just about everything, one day a resent graduate of basic training was wearing an Infantryman rope, by the time I got to turn to find him he has disappear. Yes Sir, I was told by another retired NCO that he had to make a correction to several privates that did not salute a Coronel, for his demise the Coronel stop him and told him that he had no reason to stop those soldiers and correct them, to bad I do not know who the Coronel was, I could of have had him remembering what his job should of has being, NCO's are there to be sure this soldiers follow every regulation in the AR reg 670-1. I have being retired since 1998, and I will remember my way.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Jan 27 at 2015 12:10 AM

2015-01-27T00:10:12-05:00

You are a Soldier 24/7, as well as an NCO. You should have pulled her aside, made the correction, if she wanted to get butthurt, then jack it to the next level, her Chain of Concern, never back down, you are within regulations, as well have the backing of UCMJ....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 1:48 AM

2015-01-27T01:48:18-05:00

Ask to see her ID and get their information at a minumum, that way you can track them down and make their COC aware of the encounter. The on the spot correction has to be made though. You were worried about the possible consequences of your actions in a public setting, should have been more worried about the perception that she was giving everyone who saw her. Also, as a SSG you should never need to question whether or notto male a correction, that is what you get paid to do. So on this...my take away is, and what she knows now, is that someone got their E6 and doesn't have the backbone for the job. We all need a boot im the ass from time to time. Adjust your point of aim SSG.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 3:16 AM

2015-01-27T03:16:36-05:00

I'm just a PV2 and I wouldn't even look all out of regulation like that. It so disrespectful that people wearing the same uniform that I have, would do just an embarrassing thing like that. Also I thought we were not suppose to wear uniforms in malls. If I saw that specialist I would ask for her full name and possibly contact my PSG and see if he could contact her unit for failing to abide to Army Regulations

Response by SFC Carlos Saldana made Jan 27 at 2015 4:41 AM

2015-01-27T04:41:20-05:00

AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by Cpl Michael Mosley made Jan 27 at 2015 5:01 AM

2015-01-27T05:01:20-05:00

I believe you should have corrected her, it doesn't matter if she was going to have an attitude. She signed the Government Contract and swore the oath. If you were a Marine you would have corrected her. I was an NCO in the USMC and I corrected other Marines all the time on Uniform Regulations and when we wore civilian clothing, we have an Image to uphold and Tradition.

It seems today more and more Military personnel think they can do what they want. Remember once you sign that contract you have signed away all your rights and are now Government property.

Response by SGT B Lynch made Jan 27 at 2015 5:14 AM

2015-01-27T05:14:50-05:00

Should of stood your ground!!!!!!! That's what is wrong with our leadership today. There are all to afraid of being sued for hurting peoples feelings. We need to start standing up and gain the upper hand again.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Jan 27 at 2015 5:32 AM

2015-01-27T05:32:21-05:00

SSG Dontre' Robinson as much as it pisses me off you walking away the right thing to do. I can promise you it would have turned physical. That person wearing our uniform is a piece of shit and is not worth you getting in trouble. Maybe something you could have done was get a picture with your phone and post her sorry ass all over the net it would get attention like a rolling snowball.

I ran into something like this in a Walmart a SSG Guardsman who worked as an active Tech on a guard base was wearing his head gear talking up a girl about all his war stories and kills. I kid you not! I interrupted nicely and whispered in his ear to remove his head gear. From the there it got ugly even after showing this guy my E8 ID he still wants to sling hands. OK I just don't give dam I started walking toward the door. By the time we got outside I guess he calmed down. No harm No Foul but we did talk outside I don't think he will do that shit again. This head gear issue was a constant problem for me in my area from LTs down wear them at the wrong time or not wearing them drove me crazy. LOL

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 5:48 AM

2015-01-27T05:48:19-05:00

At least you had the professionalism to go up to her and attempt to fix the situation. Far too many Soldiers, Leaders, etc... are so introverted these days that they would rather turn the blind eye to it than make a correction which is why these violators get away with it.
If you were in the right, which you were, there isn't a thing she or her friend could have done about it. I would have given her the opportunity to move to a private location so we could discuss the infraction without publicly humiliating her. Had she chosen otherwise, well then you would have seen a Sergeant do what Sergeants are supposed to do.
We are the standard bearers and if we aren't going to fix the problems, who is? The problem is when the leaders themselves are not educated enough on the regs to make the correction and fear embarrassing themselves.
Much like the other day when I was doing PT and I had my fleece cap folded up around the bottom, as I have done for years. Some young SSG, God bless his heart was doing what he thought was the right thing, however his delivery method was wrong. He yelled " hey you, fix your F#%@ing cap". So I stopped to see to whom he was speaking and when he pointed at me and said " yeah you" and repeated his first request I felt it was my duty to mentor him.
So, since he decided to put himself out there in public such as he did I just had to correct him in public, not only for his unprofessional use of profanity but also his lack of knowledge of 670-1.
In summary, if you KNOW the reg make the correction, if you do not, LEARN IT or you are going to get embarrassed.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 6:06 AM

2015-01-27T06:06:45-05:00

I think you did great. The only thing I would suggest is to identify yourself first. I would have also just been up front and just say what was wrong instead of asking if she knew she was violating a reg. She might not have realized what was wrong and gave a smart answer because of your approach.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 27 at 2015 6:40 AM

2015-01-27T06:40:59-05:00

There hs been a lot said on this one. This is really an Army uniform regulation issue but I will give you my perspective.

The first thing the Army should do is much like the Marine Corps has done for decades. BDU's/Cammies are not to be worn off base, period. I see folks in the Army, in their utilities, out to dinner, in the mall, at the hospital and of course at the airport and just about anywhere else you can imagine. I've read some comments in this thread that say they are not supposed to do so but I can tell you I see it everywhere.

I would not have corrected her as I am not familiar enough with Army uniform regs to do so but had she been a Marine I would have done so, firmly and politely. Had she been a Marine she should not have been in utilities period, that one is easy. Had she been wearing service uniform incorrectly I would have made the correction. If she knew she was out of regulation (as the woman in the story did) and still wore it anyway I would have lost my mind.

They are called uniforms for a reason and there are regulations for a reason. Too many people have died wearing the uniform of this country to let folks wear it any way they like. An honest mistake can be corrected, willfully violating the regulation is unacceptable.

Response by SSG John Q Adams made Jan 27 at 2015 6:48 AM

2015-01-27T06:48:24-05:00

I would have done the correction right on the spot and pulled rank on her quicker then a rooster can crow...

Response by PO3 Sheri Collins made Jan 27 at 2015 6:50 AM

2015-01-27T06:50:24-05:00

What is she doing in public in uniform? When i was in the service you were only allowed to go buy the necessities like milk or diapers, not go to the movies. She's a mess! I would have asked where she belonged and who her supervisor was..

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 7:04 AM

2015-01-27T07:04:34-05:00

Good grief...type your messages in Word first then hit the abc button (spell check) your English is horrible. That goes for all of those responding as well. I and we get your point, but it doesn't look well in the eyes of others.

thru vs through
there vs their
a vs an
my girl friend and I (others come first in grammar and hopefully your girlfriend in life)
what vs once

Response by SFC MIchael Buschhardt made Jan 27 at 2015 7:25 AM

2015-01-27T07:25:52-05:00

Removing yourself from the situation was not the answer. I would and my wife would contest to this, have put her in the correct uniform. I would have also have gotten her unit and 1st Sergeants name and let him know how his soldier is representing his unit and the United States Army. Soldiers are not being held accountable.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jan 27 at 2015 7:57 AM

2015-01-27T07:57:24-05:00

Maybe it's being in the Guard now vs. the regular Army, but I see an awful lot of this sort of thing. Never from full-timers, but often from M-Day soldiers. I struggle with offering on the spot corrections when I am in civilian uniform and they are not, especially when it turns confrontational. They don't know me. I'm just some stranger that "harasses" them at the mall.

But because it's the Guard, I also am easily able to find out what unit they are in, and allow their chain of command to handle it. If there's a tactful way to correct them without causing them embarrassment, I will do that. Things to keep in mind: A) Civilians don't necessarily understand what is out of uniform and B) our reaction to things out of order in public shapes the public perception of the military as much as what is out of order. As an NCO, professionalism SHOULD include a healthy dose of tact. Don't just focus on how you feel they are poorly representing the military; focus on making them a better soldier through your interaction with them.

I see a lot of responses to this thread, "back in the old Army," but I came in at Benning over 20 years ago, and things were much the same. Whether Campbell or Fort Richardson, you'd occasionally see the private or, sadly, SPC blithely unaware that they were looking foolish in public. I may have occasionally been that guy, though I doubt it. I do recall an over-active NCO in the Air Force who wanted to check me when I came in Class As to my ex-wife's graduation at Lackland AFB. Foreign jump wings, EIB, etc., "would I find all that stuff in your records?" I didn't enjoy the scrutiny; it's precisely the kind of power trip we walk a fine line with. If I was improperly wearing the uniform, I could understand. We walk a fine line between power trip and corrective action. We must choose wisely.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 8:07 AM

2015-01-27T08:07:19-05:00

I'm happy that you didn't cause a scene because of her disrespect, it's your obligation as an leader to make corrections, she got an attitude, that's fine. My opinion is that you did the right thing by keeping your military bearing & removing yourself from the situation before it escalated. Your job was done!

Response by FN Racheal Macauley made Jan 27 at 2015 8:29 AM

2015-01-27T08:29:31-05:00

I don't see why fixing yourself for messed up hair and cover inside can be wrong. Its the spouses of officers that want to come up to military members, and correct them like they think they're experts. News flash. Pregnant girls and gimps wear tennis shoes, and we don't have to flash our chit to YOU to prove it, busy bodies.

Response by SPC Ronald Treitner made Jan 27 at 2015 9:07 AM

2015-01-27T09:07:09-05:00

in my day if you were only basically supposed to go from work to home in BDU'S anything else was an article 15, I think staying in uniform is always important and anything else is disrespectful, should have asked where she was stationed and unit nicely then backed out and called the post and complained to the unit or post commander. being she was supposedly in the U.S. Army and a spc4 she knows better and doesn't deserve the rank.

Response by A1C Maranda Curry made Jan 27 at 2015 9:10 AM

2015-01-27T09:10:59-05:00

If you out rank her you remind her of that and make her remember to think twice before she decides to walk out like that. Military is not a 9-5 job. You dont get to do whatever you want when you're not working, I know this from experience. Rolled her eyes? Name, rank, first shirts info and let her know she will be hearing from them soon.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 9:18 AM

2015-01-27T09:18:45-05:00

I think I would have corrected her. I would try to be discreet. At the eye-rolling point, I would have to breathe deep to not lose my temper. At that point, I would remind her that she represents every soldier when she is out in public and that she, in violation of uniform regs, is making every soldier look like a slob in the public's eye.
Being that I am also a woman, I would then remind her she also is representing every woman in uniform in the public eye, and that she is currently an embarrassment. Before walking away, I would say, "Well, it's your honor and integrity. Do what you want."
If she did not correct herself at that point, I might track down her unit and report her the next day...probably in my NSUs (Class Bs) or even my dress uniform. It's fun to pull that out every now and then.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 10:07 AM

2015-01-27T10:07:11-05:00

There was nothing wrong with the fact that you made the correction, but perhaps it would have went over better if you had taken her to the side. I commend you on making the correction. All too often, NCO's just don't want to get involved.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-01-27T10:25:09-05:00

You should have immediately identified yourself and pulled her aside to correct her deficiencies. You could have also asked her for her ID and called security if things got stupid. We are all subject to UCMJ on and off duty.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 10:42 AM

2015-01-27T10:42:14-05:00

You did well. Just leave her alone. She will one day get chewed up if she continues like that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-01-27T11:14:21-05:00

I would have addressed it in a similar manner; however, once this SM began to show signs of disrespect I would have attempted to pull them to the side, identify myself, and fix the situation. If the SM continued in the manner, I would take pictures, record the facts and the SMs name/rank and look in AKO to identify the SM's unit. At this point u would have a conversation with their CoC to get the SM straight.

Response by SCPO Kenneth Myers made Jan 27 at 2015 11:21 AM

2015-01-27T11:21:37-05:00

I would have introduced myself, showed her my ID and proceeded to pull her aside ask what unit she was in, inform her that she needed to correct her appearance on the spot. If she refused, I would have walked away, got a hold of her 1SGT and let him/her have at it. No use getting into a pissing contest in public.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:32 AM

2015-01-27T11:32:33-05:00

The standards are the standards for that very reason, to be enforced by leadership...without fail!
You made your move to correct the specialist & was instantly disreguarded as a NCO.
Now, It's at that point you explain to the Soldier that she don't want to make this a bigger deal that it has to be & also suggest she think about what her Command would think of this violation of AR670-1 esp. her First Sergeant because you will take this up higher, if need be!
Close with "Square Yourself Away, Soldier" & stand there with your game face on! She would've fix herself at that point, SSG Robinson...
Being a NCO means doing the dirty work, outside the wire & at home, so always remember when you see Soldiers not doing the right thing, in violation of the standards or when you spy a fake in the crowd...
Remember "No one is more professional than I".

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Jan 27 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-01-27T11:34:54-05:00

You were in the right to correct her. Pull her away and put her on the right track. Rolling eyes and knowingly breaking uniform is disrespect in two MAJOR forms. If junior SMs aren't taught to maintain self-discipline they will fail as leaders when they earn promotion.
The regs support you and so does your conscience. I would've pushed the issue right there so the "public" knows we care about our own. If she balked further, then the embarrassment was earned by her own actions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-01-27T11:39:37-05:00

I have to make some light of the situation with all of the comments....

"But I'm wearing my fleece cap, which is a part of my IPFUs which means I can wear a ponytail, right?"

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-01-27T11:44:38-05:00

The standard IS the standard....on or off duty. NO EXCUSES....get her info and give it to her CoC...I'll bet her CSM would LOVE it!!

Response by PO2 Steve Wagner made Jan 27 at 2015 11:57 AM

2015-01-27T11:57:54-05:00

2 do nothing is a dereliction of duty. Should have done exactly what you started to do but as soon as the s bag gave you attitude all attempts to assists in a off the books manner should have stopped and let the big dogs have a shot.

Response by PFC George Hilbish made Jan 27 at 2015 12:07 PM

2015-01-27T12:07:46-05:00

Flame her ass on the spot. Pull rank if you have any. It's a serious violation and her attitude warrants an article 15 especially if you advise her that you are an NCO.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-01-27T12:13:20-05:00

;

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-01-27T12:23:53-05:00

Ok so I would have identified myself as a SSG, pulled her to the side and lit her ass up! Are you kidding me right now? An NCO is afraid to correct a freaking SPC? I'm sorry man but the reason Soldiers have that attitude and do that crap is because we have soft NCO's. I don't want to create a scene so I'm just going to let this SPC disrespect me and let her make the rest of the Army look like garbage. One Soldier in public like that represents the entire Army and if some Marine, Airmen, or Sailor seen that it just reinforces the stereotype that we are dicked up. IF we as NCO's let a Soldier disrespect us they will disrespect every other NCO they see until one lays into their ass and makes them realize they are in the Army and they better act like it. I would have set an example with her for sure. But hey I'm just one SSG maybe I grew up in a different Army.

Response by TSgt Julie Miller made Jan 27 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-01-27T12:24:33-05:00

As a member of the armed forces we are all required to correct each other as needed, be it in private or in public. How we do it is always questioned. I politely corrected an officer many years ago. It was in public, on base, but I did it as discretely as possible.

Use this as a learning lesson, because the longer you stay in, the more often this and similar situations will come up. Also, before I retired in 2005, it was DOD policy that BDU's, or utility uniforms were NOT to be worn in public, aside from a quick stop at a store to pick up something or pay a bill....

Looks to me as if they are about to attend a movie.... If she is actually in the ARMY, then she would know this and would realize she is in violation of that specific Dress and Appearance regulation/rule.

I seriously doubt she is actually in the ARMY, but if she is, she needs to be addressed. Too bad you couldn't do more, but trust me.... if she is in fact active duty it will catch up with her.... and if she isn't she will get called out again.

Being a good leader is tough... it calls upon each and everyone of us to do what's right even when we feel judged.... Next time.... do it privately, ask to see ID, which all active duty should carry with them at all times... and then walk away... if you personally know the individual, again... praise in public.... chastise in private....
Good Luck

Response by Cpl Salvador Montano Jr. made Jan 27 at 2015 12:30 PM

2015-01-27T12:30:12-05:00

Should have joined the Corps. and you wouldn't have to worry about a bunch shit birds disrespecting the uniform!

Response by GySgt Richard Tingley made Jan 27 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-01-27T12:32:38-05:00

Look her up and report her to her command.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-01-27T12:33:10-05:00

We are in an age where junior troops (and some leaders) have little to no regard for regulations. I feel we as NCOs need to be more assertive in our authority so that situations like this are minimal. Not to say that its our fault but we do share some blame as well as those that feel that they are above whats written in black and white. Its our duty to correct deficiencies detrimental to the good order and discipline within the ranks. Sometimes in doing so we make a few 'enemies'. If we cant make a correction without causing a scene, just ask for their name and unit and poilitely move out. The NCO corps need to grab ahold of the reigns and do what we are charged to do simply put.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 12:36 PM

2015-01-27T12:36:16-05:00

No matter rank if you are in uniform it us your job as a soldier to represent the uniform and the U.S. Army with dignity. not look like a bag of turds that's been left in the hot sun. That SPC needs to learn quick.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Jan 27 at 2015 12:40 PM

2015-01-27T12:40:07-05:00

To the original post (not the explanation), "when is it apprpriate?". It's always appropriate, and it's for everyone ages 17 and up. If they don't comply, after you have finished the corrective training, some re-assembly may be required.

Yes, that was my humorous answer.

Response by CPO David Baldwin made Jan 27 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-01-27T12:45:05-05:00

With todays picture phones we now have a leg up on these infractions. Correct procedure is to identify yourself, identify them, then order them to leave and fix themselves. Short and simple. Every NCO near a training base has to face this daily.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-01-27T13:02:38-05:00

I understand the predicament you were facing, but the on the spot correction has to happen. That SPC is in public, wearing a uniform out of regs, but at the same time, she is representing the Army to the public. It is hard to make corrections in public, especially with someone who automatically presents an attitude. The way I have handled it in the past is to play dumb and get what unit they are in first, then identify yourself and make the on the spot corrections. Thank you for not making a scene. That shows professionalism in itself.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-01-27T13:10:02-05:00

Here's my suggestion based on experience and 26 years in the Army. You identified the issue, you engaged the Soldiers and pointed out their violations. At that point, you could have easily asked them to the side and demanded they get in uniform. Reminded them they are in public and representing all of us in uniform. What they do at that time is up to them and out of your control. You can only express expectation and exercise a little general authority. Had this been ten years ago, you could have tactfully put them in their place verbally. The problem now is that when these young Soldiers get away with uniform violations, they think it's okay and will continue to be the example.

But you did good by addressing the issue. Their NCOs have failed them.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-01-27T13:18:42-05:00

You absolutely failed in your duties as an NCO. There is a way to correct that in public off post. However her attitude is probably a reflection of her leadership allowing things like this to go on. You enabled her to disregard standards she's well aware of. Pulling her to the side and informing her of how she should look, why it's important and asking her to go to the nearest female latrine and correcting herself would be the way to go. imagine the public's opinion of a young soldier disregarding an NCO's orders.

Response by Sgt James Morse made Jan 27 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-01-27T13:28:52-05:00

The responses in this thread surprise me...

I was in the USMC in the 90's, and an NCO for the majority of that time. I ran into this, and similar situations, on a regular basis. There is-- and should be-- only one response to this kind of thing.

- Avoid a public display of chastising the junior Marine, but pul that person aside and establish who you are.
- Get the person's full name, rank, and unit.
- Instruct them to get themselves unf--ked on the spot (many times, the infraction was a violation of the civilian clothing regs)
- If it's a violation that cannot be fixed on the spot, tell that person to return home, or to their unit, and change into appropriate clothing. Tell the junior person that you will be calling the Duty NCO to ensure that the problems have been corrected, which means that they will have to check in with the Duty NCO; give them a reasonable time frame to get it done.
- Follow through.

The first couple of times that this happened, it irritated my wife-- it took time away from our leisure time together. I explained to her that if she liked being the bride to a man in Dress Blues, she had better learn to like everything that came with.

I also had more than one NCO and Platoon Sergeant tell me that I was overstepping my authority by correcting "THEIR' Marines. I would very tactfully remind them that a) they were the CORPS's Marines, and b) if they had been doing their job in the first place, there would have been no need to correct anyone.

No matter what branch you serve in, you represent your unit, your organization, and your Country. That responsibility does not end at the gate. Junior enlistees need to see their NCO's doing the right thing ALL the time. NCO's are the backbone of every service, and the necessity of setting the right example all the time falls especially hard on sergeants, corporals, petty officers, and specialists, but that's part of the job.

Response by LCpl Chris Nelson made Jan 27 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-01-27T13:41:25-05:00

I made the same mistake as a young private, and received 4 days restriction with extra duty. I harbor no ill will because of it and believe we should all be held to standards

Response by SGT Dwain Inman made Jan 27 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-01-27T13:44:07-05:00

On the spot corrections in public are appropriate. Our jobs as NCO's is to make sure the standard is maintained. When you have soldiers out like that, it reflects badly on our service. It makes people say..What kind of military do we have? These are the people who are defending this country? They know the reg and if it is not enforced then what else will they ignore?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-01-27T14:02:18-05:00

I would've corrected her and then on Monday find her chain of command and report her to them about how she was disrespectful and out of Regs.

Response by SSG Christopher Hart made Jan 27 at 2015 2:08 PM

2015-01-27T14:08:22-05:00

Young SSG let me tell you, regardless of the situation in which i find myself, do that sound familiar. As an NCO regardless of her attitude I would have pulled her to the side announced myself and corrected her right then and there. No matter where they are they are soldiers 24/7, and must abide by the AR 670-1. If she would have proceeded with an attitude then just simply get as much info as you can and try to locate her base.

Response by SGT Chris Tilton made Jan 27 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-01-27T14:16:08-05:00

These situations are always difficult especially when you have people who obviously don't give a shit. For some reason, the situations I have been in when its another male they usually fix their shit immediately but I have gotten the same attitude from some females. Not trying to say its a trend just my own experience. I also don't like making scenes in public so I just remind them, that many men and women have given their lives to this country and that uniform and her blatant disregard for it is heartbreaking. Then I usually ask, do you even remember why you joined the Army? Was it so you could act the way your acting now?

Response by SSgt Tanya O'Bannon made Jan 27 at 2015 3:04 PM

2015-01-27T15:04:30-05:00

ONCE YOU IDENTIFIED WHO YOU WERE, SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PULLED TO THE SIDE, THEN SHE SHOULD HAVE CORRECTED HERSELF. I AM A FORMER MARINE. IF A SUPERIOR APPROACHES YOU AND INFORMS YOU OF A DEFICIENCY, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT, THEY NEED TO COMPLY AND FIX IT OUR DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. SHE WILL DO THIS AGAIN BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T ANY CONSEQUENCES TO HER ACTIONS. SHE MADE THE ARMY LOOK BAD. SHAMEFUL! DO NOT BACK DOWN BECAUSE YOU FEEL SOMEONE IS GOING TO CAUSE A SCENE. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT!

Tanya Faith O'Bannon

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-01-27T15:24:09-05:00

I would have most definately gotten her name, asked where she was stationed, identified myself, make the correction and remind her that she is the image that people will relate to the Army. I wouldn't dramatize anything in public but I certainly would be calling her command post to find out who I could contact to discuss her attitude and her disrespect for the uniform.

Response by Sgt Art Garcia made Jan 27 at 2015 3:41 PM

2015-01-27T15:41:09-05:00

this is not just an army issue, it across the board. As a retired Marine in California I see many military fashion combinations, most that I attempt to correct are aware of what there doing.Once called on it leave the area or correct the issue. Basic rules to follow. 1. It is your duty and obligation to correct the individual. 2. identify yourself 3. ask for there unit 4. then treat them how you would like to be treated.4a take them off to the side, not the time or place for embarrassment. 4b. put it on them, point out the discrepancy and advise what happens next is on them 4c. Next it a little shakey you can go on your way, or if the individual attitude warrants it call there command and let them no. 5.Remember complacency is as wrong as not correcting the infraction in the first place.6. last remember they are wrong not you, period!

Response by MGySgt Rich Zahn made Jan 27 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-01-27T16:06:31-05:00

see her ID card, find out the command, call the OD.. Confirm she gave you the straight scoop, visit her SgtMaj on monday..

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-01-27T16:07:15-05:00

As an NCO, it's your duty to call attention to the situation. That being said, I think you made the right call in not making a public spectacle of either of you. You have her name, and Korea's a pretty small place, I'm sure you can look her up on global and find out her chain of command pretty easily. Give them a heads-up, and I guarantee she'll at least get a talking to.

Response by Lt Col Phil "SPOT" Taber made Jan 27 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-01-27T16:08:35-05:00

I would have gotten her name and unit, then corrected (off to the side). As soon as I was in my car, I would be calling her unit commander and/or First Sgt for a meeting with them on this discipline issue.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-01-27T16:08:41-05:00

As others have said introduce yourself first to give that person a frame of reference for what is coming next. I would then ask them to step away and have the conversation away from their family/associates to avoid embarrassment. Then correct the infraction.

Of course she knew she was not in compliance, very few people who are not incompliance do it though ignorance. Most know that they can get away with certain things based on their supervision. So those of us that are outraged by this soldier should be mad at her supervision. And those that say troops are different and not as good now in days should look to those troops supervisors, they are letting things happen everyday to erode standards.

Response by Sgt Bonnie Shaw made Jan 27 at 2015 4:18 PM

2015-01-27T16:18:37-05:00

You could have pulled her aside and asked for her ID card. Taken down her info and if you didn't even follow up to contact her CO...she would have thought twice next time.

Response by SPC David Young made Jan 27 at 2015 4:25 PM

2015-01-27T16:25:52-05:00

Yes, it is appropriate to "spot correct" a soldier who is out in public & not in proper uniform. It was done to me before and I didn't take it personally. Since she didn't take the correction as intended, you should have gotten her name & unit and reported it to her Chain of Command. Let them counsel her on the matter.

Response by SSG Lewis Fronk made Jan 27 at 2015 4:26 PM

2015-01-27T16:26:36-05:00

Not correcting the situation is a failure, meaning any service member sees something wrong they have an obligation on or off duty to politely pull them too the side and tell them!!
On another note the military has made it too easy on troops in general, I know oh 7 cases in my area where the troop severally messed up with no reprimands, or jail time etc., most were chaptered out unable too adapt too military standards, less than honorable discharge, honorable after 6 months what the hell, my foster sister was one she broke her ankle in basic, so they told her she would have too recycle again, she had the balls too jump up on the Bn. Commanders desk, grab him by the shirt collar and say she wasn't going through this shit again, when I was in that would have been the stockade!
Anyway, corrections never hurt anyone!!! god knows when I was a young private I was corrected a lot, and I thank GOD it happened it made me a better soldier!, and I also instilled into my 3 sons who serve now in the Marines, Army and Airforce.

Response by Cpl Toby Dodd made Jan 27 at 2015 4:32 PM

2015-01-27T16:32:26-05:00

Simple -
Tell the person what a sorry excuse they are for a person in uniform.
Take a pic of her face since they are probably not going to give you their name.
Find that person's SNCOIC or CO and report.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 4:46 PM

2015-01-27T16:46:54-05:00

Make the correction and if she does get a attitude find out unit her unit and show up. There is more then way way to win this fight, too many turn their heads as though it doesn't matter. All service members have a unit and I'm sure the leadership would love a visit!!!

Response by SSG James Chastain made Jan 27 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-01-27T16:48:17-05:00

Very easy. You take the Soldier to the side, explain that they are in violation. He or she cops a 'tude? You have the name on the nameplate, and the unit from the patch. Run with it. Just because you're off duty and off-post doesn't mean your responsibility as an NCO goes away.

Response by SSG Lewis Fronk made Jan 27 at 2015 4:53 PM

2015-01-27T16:53:02-05:00

Well I read all the posts on this thread, and I agree with 98% of them, I having been in combat arms for my first 8 years on a LRRP Team shit was tight ! you met all the standards period, and boy was I corrected a lot lol!! well after this 7 years as an MP and I had too deal with legs, females and a lot of administration staff, it was a world of change for me and not that easy!!! I had to learn tact and be politically correct, but I never let a violation go uncorrected,
Today I am a Training Officer (Ensign) with the Naval Sea Cadet Corp, like JROTC, same standards as the Navy same regs. and I'm a hard ass about Military bearing customs and courtesies! an we have a lot of our cadets join the service all branches, and they all come back too the unit and thank me for being tuff on them and making them meet standards it makes me proud that I can instill this in these young people!! I guess an old grunt like me can still make a difference!!!

Response by SGT Christopher Highe made Jan 27 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-01-27T16:54:51-05:00

On the spot corrections are appropriate in public regardless of the venue. It is our duty as soldiers and NCOs to correct them, off to the side, in a tactful manner. When you wear any authorized uniform in public, you are representing your branch and the military, and as such, need to adhere to regulation. It isn't making a scene, it's being a good soldier and leader.

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Jan 27 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-01-27T17:03:19-05:00

I agree a correction needs to be made. After all she/he is representing the military. I think SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas is correct. Take the troop aside and explain the infraction. If an attitude follows try and find our his/her command. Then take it to the next step.

Response by BG Edward Burley made Jan 27 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-01-27T17:11:08-05:00

This is always a challenge, but if we don't enforce standards, the public sees an unprofessinal appearance. I recently met a Soldier in a grocery store who was in ACU trousers, tan T-shirt, and boots. He was not wearing his shirt, and didn't have his headgear with him. I was in civilian clothes; I quietly approached him, identified myself (and had my ID card in hand), and asked him why he didn't have on his shirt or have his hat with him.

The Soldier very self-righteously said that he didn't need to wear it, since he was off-duty! I explained the regulations, and told him I would watch his grocery cart while he went back to his car to get the rest of his uniform. He refused, so I asked him for his ID card, unit of assignment, and supervisor.

Imagine my surprise to find out he was an Active Duty Major assigned to the Army Staff at Pentagon.

But better yet, imagine his suprise to find out that his supervisor was answering questions as to why his Major was out of uniform and disrespectful to a Brigadier General.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 5:13 PM

2015-01-27T17:13:46-05:00

Is there no policy in place prohibiting the wear of uniform off duty and off post? I understand It's not a regulation, but every installation I've been to, even an AFB, had a policy and a "strong urge" not to wear uniform unnecessarily. Unless this was a student and didn't have much of a choice in attire, I don't understand why she wouldn't just change before going to the movies. And more to the point, if you're going to wear it, do it with pride. I'm proud of your restraint, SSG. Warm fuzzies and all.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-01-27T17:41:00-05:00

I have done a on-the-spot correction of a lower enlisted before. Both of us were in uniform, and I tried to be nice at first. When said E2 decided he was going to give me lip, I just asked him for his supervisors info and let him/her take care of it.

Dummy tried to give me a fake name, but there are only so many Security Forces out here, and when you're on good terms with their upper enlisted.. well that helps a lot.

Last I heard, he was being made to scrub all the cruisers 3 times a week, and extra pt.

Sadly enough I think that is the minority though.

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made Jan 27 at 2015 5:52 PM

2015-01-27T17:52:30-05:00

She rolled her eyes??? ROE would stipulate "Throat Punch is a GO!" NOTHING corrects insubordination as quickly and as effectively as a throat punch. Chivalry is discriminatory. Equal Rights = Equal Throat Punch.

Response by MSgt Fred Duncan made Jan 27 at 2015 5:52 PM

2015-01-27T17:52:35-05:00

OK, as a retired USAF E-7, 1959- 1980. Two things here, one we praise in public and correct in private. She was in a public place. If no way to counsel her privately go on about your business. Two, you have no way of knowing what is going on, did she just complete a duty shift and get there without a chance to change her attire? Standards are fine but they do not always consider reality. The question was asked and answered, Yes she knew that she was in violation, and caught. A word to the wise and she will think twice before committing the same breech of discipline.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-01-27T17:58:15-05:00

There is never an "inappropriate" time for on-the-spot-corrections. I've had to make corrections in Home Depots, Walmarts, commissaries, etc. Providing a quiet comment to avoid embarrassing the violator is important. Look at it from a developmental aspect, know and understand your regulation. They may role their eyes, but they'll be the better for it.

Response by SFC Cal Brokaw made Jan 27 at 2015 5:59 PM

2015-01-27T17:59:33-05:00

Attitude or not you make the correction, Soldiers do not learn by avoiding the situation, and as a leader you have to make the correction or you are wrong for not doing it.

How would you as a lower enlisted soldier like to have a PSG that did not correct you, soldiers like that end up in boxes with long handles, because someone didn't give a shit to correct them...

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 6:07 PM

2015-01-27T18:07:18-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member you did the most important thing - you acted and made an OTSC. You did what any good NCO should have done.

Putting it on here took a lot of Personal Courage because of all the responders second guessing every move made with perfect 20/20 hindsight and plenty of time to think about it.

What has been good about this post for you, and a lot of other young Service Members, is the host of ways expressed by a bunch of us old farts of what we have done or what has worked for us in how to handle situations such as this if they should come up again, or in other words, seeing some experience passed on.

I personally agree you were in a tough spot to do much else other than what you did, given her date and yours, and everything else. Hopefully, the offending individual will be tracked down, and her CoC will be found, and we will have some resolution knowing her 1SG and CSM have enlightened her (oh how I wish I was still in and was her Brigade CSM - my devious mind is working overtime on what that eye roll got her, not to mention the cap and hair).

One other thing SSG Private RallyPoint Member if the individual is found and the situation is addressed, can you edit/update the original question/heading to let us all know? My greatest angst is this individual never standing on the carpet in front of her 1SG answering for this and getting away with it. That injustice causes me to loose sleep at night.

Response by SPC Rodney Harp made Jan 27 at 2015 6:14 PM

2015-01-27T18:14:37-05:00

As a former SPC in the Army NG, and as a current SGT. in a law enforcement agency I know enforcing uniform regulations are important, not just for image, but for discipline in the ranks. I would have introduced my self, showing ID and told her to correct her uniform. Any defiance or disrespect would have been reported in writing to her chain of command.

Response by Cpl Darrell Zazueta made Jan 27 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-01-27T18:32:56-05:00

If you are a "leader" then yes you step in. When I was a young Marine I saw a Gunnery Sargent, on leave, step up to and tell another young Marine that his military alignment was off and his back pocket un bottoned. He informed the young Marine that we are Marines 24 hours a day and if we are going to wear the uniform, wear it correctly or don't wear it at all. So yes something should have been said.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 6:38 PM

2015-01-27T18:38:02-05:00

I don't think anyone could hold your choice against you. I would generally think a quiet and polite correction should be the default - while this person sounds like they knew they were doing something incorrect, someone could just daze or have a dumb moment (I do). Once the first correction attempt has been made, if they don't comply, then I would think being more aggressive is fine - given your audience. If your truly in public, civilians are around, then it may not be worth the PR hit to make a scene, and you could just get the soldier's info to contact their leadership, but if you're on base.... I think wrecking them would be perfectly acceptable. Again, this is only after being nice about it the first time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 6:38 PM

2015-01-27T18:38:40-05:00

Hands down agree with SMSgt Thomas. This Soldier should have been pulled aside and corrected. If that didn't work after showing your ID, get the commands info. If that didn't work, take a pic and find her on AKO. I would 100% have attempted a calm discussion but have no problem embarrassing a disrespectful Soldier in public.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-01-27T18:45:28-05:00

You should have asked her what unit she was in and reported her to her CSM

Response by SPC Ken Parsons made Jan 27 at 2015 7:02 PM

2015-01-27T19:02:46-05:00

I servsd in the Army 45 years ago but I don't think the regs on this kind of behavior have changed since then. It just shows the lack of respect 95% of all young people have today for any kind of authoruty or themselves. I f any of the NCO's or Officers I served under had come across this, they would most definately taken the person aside and made them correct the situation on the spot. (Former SPC IV Mechanized Infantry)

Response by SSgt John Hutto made Jan 27 at 2015 7:12 PM

2015-01-27T19:12:09-05:00

NO, THATS WHERE YOU PULL OUT YOUR ID AND POLITELY SHOW HER YOUR RANK IF YOU ARE NOT IN UNIFORM YOURSELF. AND YES, YOU CORRECT HER, IF SHE ROLLS HER FUCKING EYES AGAIN, YOU GET KNEE DEEP IN THAT ASS AND EMBARRASS HER IN FRONT OF EVERYONE! FUCK THAT, SHE NEEDED IT. YOU DEMAND THE NAME RANK AND PHONE NUMBER TO HER SUPERVISOR AND HER FIRST SGT. AND INFORM HER YOU WILL BE MAKING A CALL TO THEM.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-01-27T19:14:12-05:00

Slap the black off that nappy haired ho bag

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 7:18 PM

2015-01-27T19:18:59-05:00

I was involved in a similar-ish situation... At Buffalo Wild Wings, there were two Officers (2LT and 1LT) having some drinks in uniform watching the game. My wife and I had been there since they arrived- they hadn't eaten anything only ordered drinks. I remarked to my wife about it, but didn't do anything... Until the 1LT drunkenly walked to the latrine, and walked into the female latrine instead of the male latrine.

At that point I knew I had to say something, so when he came back I went to the table and quietly (and professionally, I was in civvies but I am only an E6) mentioned that the Officers may want to refresh themselves with AR 670-1 and when it is permitted to drink in uniform, and that having drinks in uniform and walking into the wrong gender latrine was definitely unprofessional.

When I walked away, they called the off duty cop working security over and stated I was harassing them, so I was asked to leave the restaurant for harassing "uniformed military members".

Unfortunately, if someone doesn't care- they won't care, no matter their rank, or the rank of whomever approaches them.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-01-27T19:20:22-05:00

Did it even cross your mind that you should just leave her alone? What's the big deal?? There are many people doing way worse than that girl who is wearing her uniform "out of the regulations" yet the "leadership", at its best, goes after the minor issues to micro-manage and throw their ranks around.

Now what? you gonna tell me that what I wrote is also "out of regulation"?

But wait - Before you start bashing and insulting me for posting this comment (something very regular in the military) keep in mind that you took oath to "Defend the Constitution of the United States" which guarantees my right to speech and expression.

Thank you for your service and have a great day SSG.

Response by LCpl Michael Peters made Jan 27 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-01-27T19:21:39-05:00

You mentioned it to her once, your dealing directly to her has been done. Do you see that picture that you posted? Did you happen to get one of her face? Go to your base with those pictures, and show them to your CO. He will be madder than you are, and he will make sure that she get's a lesson in Military Regulations from her CO. And, if you are senior to her, make sure that you tack on "Disrespect to a Senior".
I am no longer on active duty, and I see these "Shit Birds" in public places more and more. I am totally disgusted by the actions of our younger soldiers, they have no respect for anyone, anything, or themselves. They need a lesson in having "PRIDE".

Response by SFC Harvey Gaskin made Jan 27 at 2015 7:22 PM

2015-01-27T19:22:33-05:00

As others have weighed in on this situation I believe the value and the morality of today’s military forces has changed; however, as a retiree we can interject and do an on the stop correction with tactic and sincerity not to loose face of the situation. Back when I was in the service we were not allowed in BDU’s out side of Garrison, Fort and/or Camp in anyone’s establishment especially stores. If you where some place you better be in Class A or B uniform and not BDU’s. I was in a situation where I did do an on the spot correction or as I put it challenge. Whomever, doing the correction must introduce themselves fully and my advice is pull out your identification not in a threatening manner but before had asked to speak to that person in private without sounding intimidating or threatening to their person. Simply, ask them to adhere to the AR 670-1 in respect of the regulation and our combat war-fighters that are gone before us. Ask them to think about their representation of the armed forces and what would their mentor say to them know. You have to get them to thinking what if someone else would have caught them what would be the consequences. If you do an on the stop correction don’t make it seem that they are degrading the uniform but remind them that its proper protocol ...Leaders Train and Re-Train, Mentor through expectations and excellences.

Well, in short the young man what attending a technical school “STAR” program in class B uniform with his head gear strap down under his belt. I asked to speak with him introduce myself and handed him my identification “Military ID” and I simply explain the situation. ALL in all he appreciate me and place his hat on his head and said HOORAH Sergeant!

Response by SSG Robert English made Jan 27 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-01-27T19:43:24-05:00

I was in a situation like this but it was by far worse. I went to a liqueur store after work to pick up a six pack. This is near Ft. Drum. I had stopped by my house first to change, it was a Friday afternoon and I had just finished a 14 hour shift. I was at the time a SGT. I walked in and at the counter was a soldier, later to find out it was a PV2. He was wearing headgear with SGT stripes, without a top. I immediately stopped and walked up to him waited till he was done with his transaction and made the on spot correction after showing him my ID. I was curious to his rank, but I left it alone. He didnt speak as though he was an NCO nore did he have any respect towards me either. He told me to F*** off. I followed him outside where him and his buddies yelled out of their car that if they see me again they were going to beat my A**. I wrote down the license plate, called up my platoon Sergeant. He called the commander and so forth. The following Monday I was pulled into my first sergeants office. I walked in with both my first sergeant and commander with another first sergeant and the three privates i had seen Friday night. My first sergeant asked me if these were the ones I had seen. I told him yes. I was given all three of them for two months. I made them strong, I made them smarter and most importantly I made them have respect. Never worry about what can happen with a soldier, it shows weakness and lack of resolve, always correct on the spot. If they show disrespect or failure to comply with regulations seek out alternative support. In this case I found who they where and what unit they were from. I also agree correct in private, your not there to humiliate.

Response by SPC Josh McCullar made Jan 27 at 2015 8:18 PM

2015-01-27T20:18:47-05:00

I corrected a 1sgt at my job last week in Oklahoma City. His Us Army And Name tag were on the wrong sides. So I corrected him on the spot.

Response by Sgt M Thompson made Jan 27 at 2015 8:19 PM

2015-01-27T20:19:28-05:00

The fact that she's doing it is a failure in the part of whoever trained her; she's not the problem. Hold her unit accountable. "Hey soldier, how are you?" "Other than the theater, what is there to do around here?" ...Continue conservation and find out her name and what unit she's in. Attempt to correct her (as you did); if she gives you attitude, give her the lawful order, contact the Duty Officer, and follow up with UCMJ charges as they apply [if needed]. If she's a reservist or N.G; just shake your head and laugh at her; tell her she looks more f****** up than a football bat. Going any further probably wont have any effect.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-01-27T20:54:28-05:00

Plain and simple, regardless of your rank or theirs, you should always make the correction in a tactful manner.

Response by PO2 Chad Ertelt made Jan 27 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-01-27T21:04:54-05:00

I work with a retired Navy Chief who worked at Great Lakes as a company commander (drill sergeant). He told me a story of a recently graduated recruit he saw out of uniform at a mall and he called him out on it. I believe if you want to be recognized in uniform, wear it right. Don't like the uniform don't wear it if your able to wear civilian cloths. Otherwise represent your branch of service as best you can.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-01-27T21:11:29-05:00

Blow her up.

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made Jan 27 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-01-27T21:29:55-05:00

Well by all means you have a right as an NCO to correct a violation. I would of asked her politely to step off to the side and identified who I am and asked her to provide me with her full name and unit and last four. As a NCO you have the right to request that she surrender her military ID also.
The I would of asked her where she was stationed and the name of her Cmdr and top shirt. The I would of informed her that since she admitted to the fact that she was out of uniform and the reason she was wearing her uniform was for personnel gain from public establishment. What AR 670-1 state reference to proper wearing of military uniform and female hair grooming policy.
The problem with today's military is the lack of STRUCTURE/LEADERSHIP/
DISCIPLINE Today's young generation hasn't a clue to what life/respect/self-respect/honor means.
Either way no matter what branch of service she was in if she was in uniform. She was under US Title 10 or 32 which stated that she was on active duty and falls under the UCMJ.

Response by PO1 Michele Cable made Jan 27 at 2015 9:34 PM

2015-01-27T21:34:14-05:00

You just gave an SPC power over an NCO when you removed yourself from the situation. If you weren't going to follow through, than you should not have said anything. You should have identified yourself after she answered yes to knowing she was in violation of Army Regs and requested her ID and the name of her 1st SGT. A scene did not need to be made and she should have been instructed to correct herself per Army Regs.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 9:36 PM

2015-01-27T21:36:35-05:00

While you are in uniform, you are held to standard. Make the correction! We are professionals, act as such!

Response by SSgt Robert Hartigan made Jan 27 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-01-27T21:41:24-05:00

I would have offered her the opportunity to excuse herself to the ladies room in order to fix her appearance. If she declined, I would have detained her. Called her First Sergeant. Informed him/her about the appearance of his/her soldier. I would inform the First Sergeant and recommend charges be filed under Article 92 and 134. Maybe this SPC is a screw up and one more strike and she is out. Maybe she is just having a bad day. Not my concern. My creed dictates, "I will exert every effort and risk any ridicule to successfully accomplish my assigned duties." An NCO's duty is to enforce standards and discipline!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 9:44 PM

2015-01-27T21:44:46-05:00

I don't know if it's even appropriate to comment here being I'm only a specialist (ARNG) promotable, but I saw a similar situation today while I was out with my girlfriend snowboarding. I saw a kid in full ACUs with no tags and no patches. I was urged from my inner army training to say something, but I bit my tongue and drove on. Should I have approached that individual?

Response by SrA Bradley Kenyon made Jan 27 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-01-27T21:46:36-05:00

I would have noted her unit and contacted her commander. That kind of disrespect for the uniform and office is unacceptable.

Response by SP5 Michael Sharp made Jan 27 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-01-27T21:46:36-05:00

You should have identified yourself and asked her who her company commander is. It would have scared the hell out of her and she would have corrected herself and most likely would never have done it again.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-01-27T21:50:42-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I would say you just need to know what battles to pick. In this case the SPC was wrong and did not care. What can you do to make someone care? The fact that some people say you can always make them must realize we cannot physically beat them into submission. I try to make corrections when I see them and make them as less embarrassing as possible. I called a SFC over to tell him that his nametapes were on the wrong side (more common than you would think). I tried to get him by himself. Unfortunately his two juniors also came over. He said he was so embarrassed and apologized. I told him it was ok and that I just wanted to help him out. He is the type of servicemember that do the on the spot corrections for. To help them out and do it respectful. In your case they do not care and do not respect the uniform. Those are the ones I wish would just take off the uniform and walk away from the service. If they do not care how they appear and represent our services they show disrespect to those who died in the uniform.

Response by SPC Alan Inthapatha made Jan 27 at 2015 10:11 PM

2015-01-27T22:11:53-05:00

as a retired service member, i am a firm believer in right is right and wrong is wrong. it is our duty to police each other up in a professional manner. it is not to criticize one another with the goal to embarrass one another but to instill the understanding that we represent more than ourselves. being back on the civilian side of the fence, you really do see that the general public doesn't look at any service member as an individual but as on organization. when we accomplish something, the accomplishment should be what shines to the public. i would of took her to the side and talked to her to correct the action. if she thinks it was that much of a hassle to be out of reg's on purpose, she could of simply went to the movies in civilian attire. there wouldn't have been any reason to skull drag her in public. at the very least after taking her aside and talking to her, if she continued to carry an attitude, it would be too easy to request her unit. if she refused, too easy to utilize a smart phone to capture. every situation is handled differently but professionalism is still professionalism.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-01-27T22:15:03-05:00

You did the right thing. Just the fact that you corrected the SPC means she may think twice. I recently followed a Marine wearing USMC PT gear out of the liquor store, stopped him politely and asked him "are we authorized to wear USMC PT gear in public." He replied "no, sir we are not." I gave him a nod and said "Semper Fidelis, Marine." I knew he immediately got it. No knife hand or Devil Dog required.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 10:55 PM

2015-01-27T22:55:46-05:00

it's too bad that we can't discipline some of these fucks like the children they are. a good ass whoopin would set some of these overly cocky idiots right.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-01-27T23:01:48-05:00

Today while volunteering, I noticed a female wearing clip-on earrings. It wasn't the clip on that got me, but the fact they were a blue "diamond" color. I pulled her to the side and asked her about the earrings. She pulled out her waiver and it said she was authorized to wear them. Now here was my conundrum. I couldn't verify that the blue was the only color they had and without digging into why she needed the earrings it wasn't my place to dig. But at one point do you also allow the medical waiver but not necessarily the choice of item? Would someone with a waiver to wear sunglasses after LASIK have the nerve to wear bright yellow ones in formation?

You did right by confronting her, but I too would have taken her to the side and had her correct it.

I've done it before and I'll do it again. ESPECIALLY when we are off base. This is when how we present ourselves is how the world perceives us.

Response by SPC Kim Starling made Jan 27 at 2015 11:05 PM

2015-01-27T23:05:19-05:00

As an MP the blatant disregard for 670-1 is annoying

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:33 PM

2015-01-27T23:33:57-05:00

Walk up, start a conversation, ask where she is stationed, get her name and unit. With all that information once you introduce yourself; name, rank, I can assure you would have received a better response. At that point you ask to speak with her on the side and make the necessary correction. Any non compliance should be quickly followed up with her command ATL include that pic.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:38 PM

2015-01-27T23:38:12-05:00

According to this story not only was she in violation of wearing the uniform correctly..... She was fully aware of it and proceeded to do so with out regard for what the uniform stands for. At that point I would have pulled rank and obtained her unit and first Sgts name. Have we become so scared of confrontation from our younger troops that we have become that weak? In the eyes of the public they expect us to uphold standards and this showed the public we don't have the backbone to so to our own people.

Response by PO2 William Pople made Jan 27 at 2015 11:53 PM

2015-01-27T23:53:02-05:00

Just ran across this and I am torn. When I was in high school I was wearing stuff bought at an A/N surplus store, no insignia or anything, and a hat left to me from my grandfather. I am not convinced any of the stuff went together by branch, season, uniform set, and I know the graphic tee was not. Yet an elderly woman was furious and yelled at me. I was on subs for 6 years and neither of the commands were very anal about uniforms unless the rare dignitary was coming around. That being said at what point is a uniform not be considered a uniform. Working uniforms can basically be bought anywhere even BDU's. From the image if not for the rate/ranks etc she would look like anyone. I guess I never put much "....." (not sure what word to use, Pride?) in the working uniform, dress uniforms on the other hand very much so.

Response by SGT Brent Feusse made Jan 27 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-01-27T23:55:25-05:00

Response by SPC Brad Jennings made Jan 28 at 2015 12:09 AM

2015-01-28T00:09:48-05:00

I've made on the spot corrections as a PFC and Specialist while stationed at Ft. Lewis. I was in a diner and a soldier comes in wearing his uniform with his BDU top off and I was like you and your friends need to put your tops back on! He said I was correct and fixed the problem. The other was a PFC running around in Walmart in uniform and house shoes or sport sandals or something...I was like WOAHHH....hold up Private! Soldier from the same BDG as my at the time father in law who was a CSM,

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jan 28 at 2015 12:20 AM

2015-01-28T00:20:13-05:00

I would have ask her the same if she was in the Army and if answered yes, I would (if I was active, not retired) I would state who I am and pull her aside. If she did not want to go privately, I would then go off on her and make her real embarrassed in front of people. (would get her full name and her unit prior to that). If retired, I would ask her to get back into AR since she is setting the wrong example to others and leave it as that.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 12:31 AM

2015-01-28T00:31:39-05:00

Personally I would have identified myself with my own ID and then tried to correct them on their behavior. If they didn't want to cooperate I probably would have asked for their command information and letting them know that if they didn't fix themselves they would be dealing with it the next time they showed up at work.

But then of course, you have the issue of getting them to cooperate in giving you the information you need to get ahold of their CoC.

Response by SFC Becky Ostwald made Jan 28 at 2015 12:35 AM

2015-01-28T00:35:59-05:00

You are a SSG. You should have made the correction. You should have pulled her aside and let her know she was wrong and contact her Command. She probably does this all the time wanting to get caught. I retired as a SFC and I would always make corrections.

Response by MAJ Alex Hernandez made Jan 28 at 2015 12:49 AM

2015-01-28T00:49:50-05:00

Yo can make an on the spot correction if you ar a n retired officer or senior nco. But you need to identify yourself as such. However, if you are assigned to the same base and are of higher rank, you still need to identify yourself and make the correction. This would indicate you are aware of the regulations and all exceptions granted by the post commander.

Response by PO1 Joseph Bourque made Jan 28 at 2015 6:29 AM

2015-01-28T06:29:12-05:00

That is the problem! PT are common dress for both Civilian's and military today with or without insignia it is hard to tell. I have people come into my store in PT's full correct uniform and ask them where the served and they say, " Oh, I'm not in the military!" Don't get any in full dress uniform!

Response by A1C Dylan Doherty made Jan 28 at 2015 8:01 AM

2015-01-28T08:01:04-05:00

she is giving a bad image either way.

Response by SGT Cort Landry made Jan 28 at 2015 8:46 AM

2015-01-28T08:46:28-05:00

Seems a lot has changed when I was in the Army. We knew better than to do something like this . It was instilled in our brains to respect the uniform and follow the guidelines set before us. Plus when there is no type of reprimand except a quick "talking to" then why would we think the Private would know any better?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 9:04 AM

2015-01-28T09:04:02-05:00

On the spot correction should always been done, as has been said, pull them aside and make the corrections. If they have a problem with this, get their name and unit and take it up the chain of command to their superiors. I have seen this more and more in the last several years as the younger soldiers are out and about. The uniform is a matter of pride and you are a walking talking display of what it is to be part of the greatest military family on the planet.

Response by Cpl Zack Hardin made Jan 28 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-01-28T10:01:32-05:00

U have to grow a pair. Iam sorry not saying marine's Are god's gift to the world. But at the same note if that were a marine female or male another marine would have not cared or waited to say anything. If she or he got a attitude well that just makes a marine want to correct u more. My answer to your question is if u care for what u wear and the sight of some one wearing that uniform in such a manner that u have to come up and say something, don't stop keep on them. Junior enlisted or not they know how to wear it and know what happens if they get caught not doing it right. Cpl Hardin united states marine corps. Have a good day.

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Jan 28 at 2015 10:08 AM

2015-01-28T10:08:17-05:00

In a foreign country, out of uniform, representing the United States. Get here name, get her unit, and get it to her 1SG. If I had a report like that of a soldier of mine there would be consequences. This was a blatant disrespect for the uniform and her affiliation with the US Army.

Response by MSgt Gayle Litton Jr. made Jan 28 at 2015 10:24 AM

2015-01-28T10:24:29-05:00

I have dealt with something similar to this and yes of course it was a traditional guardsmen. Me being active duty and yes of course they had attitude. I simply just got their name and had a nice conversation with his 1Sgt, SNCO to SNCO. Pretty sure he was corrected as his 1Sgt was livid. You have the name, call her command.

Response by PO2 Danny Bott made Jan 28 at 2015 10:29 AM

2015-01-28T10:29:55-05:00

When I was in the Navy and had to check a sailor for a uniform infraction, attitude you name it public or on base. If it was in public I would try and be discreet on base in uniform we got a understanding really quick and the bad thing was I was over CMAA so after NJP they would come to me for 45 days of re instilling of military bring. and of course Honor Courage and Commitment.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 10:30 AM

2015-01-28T10:30:33-05:00

I would've knocked her boyfriend out and then gouged her flippin eyes out for rolling them at me.

But in all seriousness you should have made the correction. Show her your ID card, introduce who you are and correct the situation. If she doesn't like it, then maybe she should've changed out of her uniform before she went to the mall. If she still gives you attitude, then either get her unit and notify her chain of command or if they refuse to do anything about it then report that unit to that state's Adjutant General (if it's a National Guard unit). Either she'll be reprimanded or that unit's commander will be reprimanded and I guarantee that if the commander get in trouble then her ass would be as well.

If you put on the uniform of a Soldier, then you will wear it with pride and within regulations.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-01-28T10:35:29-05:00

I would have made the correction pull her to the side and just let her know she is wrong and make the correction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 11:27 AM

2015-01-28T11:27:51-05:00

If an NCO has to ask "when is it appropriate to make a correction to a Soldier whether they out rank them or not", then they shouldn't be and NCO. I have embarrassed my own family to the point that they walk away from me when I spot someone who needs to to corrected. Regardless of the the offenders rank I will ask them if I can see their ID card as I am pulling mine out in order to identify myself. I then ask them if they are familar with the regulation they are in violation of if not I tell them and ask what unit they are in so that I can contact the Soldier's 1SG or CSM so that they can deal with their Soldier. I have sent several Soldiers out of a civilian movie theater as shown in this picture because they too were in uniform and it was against Ft Riley Policy to be in the theater while in ACUs.

Response by MSG Lowell Milstead made Jan 28 at 2015 11:30 AM

2015-01-28T11:30:01-05:00

SSG Robinson,
At that point I believe that she was not going to correct herself and that's the way some Soldiers are these days. Somewhere she has a leader that is allowing her to do this on a regular basis so don't beat yourself up too bad about it. The thing for you is to instill in your Soldiers that it will be tolerated in your formation and make the correction if it does. Some Soldiers believe that since they are not engaged in the "regular hours of work 0630-1630" that they off duty. Guess what!! you are never off duty!!. Continue to make those corrections.

Response by SPC Kimberly Anne made Jan 28 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-01-28T12:06:08-05:00

I would have asked her what unit she was with, , then ask to see her ID card, take a photo and give it to her chain of command ... dysfunctional idiots.

Response by SSG Clyde Koontz made Jan 28 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-01-28T12:16:12-05:00

The hair is definitely out of regs, as is the wearing of ANY headgear indoors while not under arms. I agree that an NCO should correct the soldier on her uniform. My question is about the reference to the fleece cap as a "PT cap". I've been retired for a short while, but last time I checked that headgear was authorized to be worn with the ACU uniform. Has that changed? I know some people don't like it and some commands have policies about it, but have actual Army Regulations changed so that wearing it is against regs?

Response by Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-01-28T12:24:35-05:00

Speaking on verbal corrections, ill share an experience of my own.

I was at a gas station heading toward our weekly ROTC meetings, when i noticed a Captain walking from a pump toward the store as well. I noticed he wasn't wearing his PC and our cadre always taught us to police that kind of stuff up, so i figured i would mention it. The response i received however was a simple "Shut up." Not what i had expected, and cadets typically seem to be frowned upon by most, but i dont think i was necessarily wrong in mentioning it to him?

Response by Cpl Kelly McDonald made Jan 28 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-01-28T12:47:43-05:00

Next time I would find out what unit she is with (before asking about the violation) and then call her commanding officer. Let him/her take care of the situation. Just my thoughts on the matter

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-01-28T13:03:40-05:00

Moment she would have got lip. Fry her

Response by SSG Jonathan Alban made Jan 28 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-01-28T13:46:31-05:00

If you were an NCO you should have (to keep it in the cool). 1)Identify yourself. 2)Ask the soldier for his/her ID. 3a)IF he/she provides one: Record name and SSN, take a pic of his/her uniform condition then figure out what unit she belongs to, and submit an art15 (with pic attached). 3b)If he/she doesn't provide with military ID: don't waste your time. Since he/she is not military (AR 670-1) "ARMY REGS" would apply.
or
grow some balls and do something about it!

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jan 28 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-01-28T13:49:03-05:00

Guess a throat punch would be wrong?

Response by MAJ Michel Dinesman made Jan 28 at 2015 2:04 PM

2015-01-28T14:04:46-05:00

Take out your ID Card, state the violation and the regulation, ask for her chain of command. No public confrontation is required. Speaking to a BDE CSM typically has some sort of impact.

Response by SSG Leroy Anderson Jr made Jan 28 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-01-28T14:37:36-05:00

I would have introduced myself as a SSG and then pulled her to the side and corrected her

Response by SSG Shawn Perry made Jan 28 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-01-28T15:15:44-05:00

I would have done that to her , whn I was home for holiday leave I had an E-7 call me out wothout giving me a chance to even remove my cover as soon as I walked in the store

Response by Sgt Joshua Seavey made Jan 28 at 2015 4:15 PM

2015-01-28T16:15:17-05:00

Ok so I would say that any place any time you have not only every right, but you are obligated to correct them. I think a very polite correct with escalation of force kind of thing.

So you very politely let them know they are messed up and correct themselves. If they are know skip that step. If given attitude use your best judgment, but for me I don't give a damn where you are if you give me shit while I'm correcting you I just get real mean real fast.

Hope that helps

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 4:22 PM

2015-01-28T16:22:16-05:00

I always say that we as military leaders need to have a professional influence whether in or out of uniform. Best way to deal with this incident would be to pull her to the side and professionally correct her. Any attitude she would give you would just have to swallow it up, keep your military bearing and remind her that you out rank her and that she represents the whole army when she puts that uniform on.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 4:53 PM

2015-01-28T16:53:11-05:00

I am a MSG of 32 years of service, and I have to say that I appriciate your efforts. I also realize that with the uniform changes over the years, individual pride in ones uniform has also changed as well. I could go on but I'd be preaching to the choir. Here is my advise, when correcting a soldier in today's Army, try to get the soldiers unit first. That may take some befriending at first. Once you have the soldiers unit (company and Battalion, location). Now it's just a quick phone call to their command and let them know what you observed. I would also at that time identify yourself and make the correction, if they give you additude, then inform them of your intentions of calling their command. Good Luck....

Response by PO2 Matthew Mikulskis made Jan 28 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-01-28T16:56:12-05:00

I wouldn't handed her her own ass on a silver platter. If she resisted or gave me any shit, that would of just made it worse because I would of been recording it. The reason these shit bags are allowed to persist is 100% down to people not wanting to confront them in public. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE, you must confront the person right away. Good men and women died wearing that fucking uniform

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 5:27 PM

2015-01-28T17:27:36-05:00

I don't care what the other person's rank is, if you're out of regs especially out in public eye like I WILL SAY SOMETHING. I'm not gonna pull you aside either. If you disrespect the wear of such a proud uniform that some of our brothers and sisters bled and died in you deserve the public embarrassment. If you outrank me, and you wanna get into a rank war, I'll call someone that outranks you into it. Chain of command is established for a reason. I will dress you down like an E1 for the world to see if you disrespect our uniforms or our colors. If you don't wanna take it seriously get the hell out of the military, because we damn sure dont want your scumbag arse watching our backs on deployment. If you can't pay attention to little details like proper uniform dress then I damn sure don't want you at my 6 missing important signs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 5:27 PM

2015-01-28T17:27:54-05:00

I agree first you ask if they are in and if they respond with "yes" then pull them a side and make the correction. This is where it can get interesting, if they take it and make the adjustments then that ends it. How ever if they decide to you attitude, then get there name off their CAC or uniform and roll it up the chain.

I was out this past weekend having lunch with my family and notice someone wearing a fleece and civilian clothes. Before I approached I waited to see the front, then I saw name, rank and branch. That is when I approached and made the correction after of course pulling them off to the side. How you approach them will impact how they take the correction.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-01-28T17:37:13-05:00

I agree with SMSGT, I would've definitely addressed the issue tactfully and respectfully as possible to draw less attention. The Soldier alone has a discpline issue that her direct leadership must deal with. In some instances, ask for the unit 1SG and leave it up to her COC.

Response by SSG Bert Lillie made Jan 28 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-01-28T17:42:26-05:00

wow. it is a touchy situation with a civilian companion. the companion does not know the regs. so the proper thing would be to identify yourself and ask them to step to the side. when we are out and about we represent the United States in or out of uniform and should act accordingly. the chain of command does not end on base or even in your private home. you are a soldier,airman or marine 24/7. you are required by reg to represent yourself as a professional at all times and we have a duty as Nco's to hold all personnel to the standard, even off duty or on leave. if you cannot do so then how did you get to become an nco?

Response by SGT Robert Southern made Jan 28 at 2015 6:02 PM

2015-01-28T18:02:34-05:00

As an NCO it is not only your responsibility to correct a uniform violation wherever you see, but also your obligation. She is out of uniform IN PUBLIC. If she is going to wear the uniform, it needs to be worn correctly, no matter if it's at a mall or or not. This is a situation where an NCO must find the moral courage to be an NCO and do the right thing. This person is representing the Army when in uniform and she must be reminded of such. If she gets uppity with you and speaks back to you as the superior ranking individual, then further corrections/admonitions must be administered, up and including contacting her chain of command.
This was also a teaching moment. As a SPC she may be getting close to promotion for E-5. At this point she must be made to understand she is a walking billboard for the Army. If she looks bad or sloppy, we all do. This is also not the proper attire to be wearing to a movie. When I was in, we were not allowed to wear our BDU's off post, unless going to or from post.

Response by SSG Jeff Hamilton made Jan 28 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-01-28T18:30:47-05:00

The problem is the young Soldiers these days don't have respect or discipline. They know it's not right but they do it anyway. It's the same with some of the young NCO's. Back in the late 90's it was all about sending the Soldier to the boards and getting promoted. It didn't matter if they new their job or was ready to lead. The answer was the could lean as they go. Which was fine for those that were ready for a leadership position. But a long the way the one's that were not ready slipped through also. More then one Squad Leader I had to carry because they didn't know their job. Yes I got off the subject. But a leader can't instill respect and discipline if they don't have it to begin with.

Response by PO2 James Kottinger made Jan 28 at 2015 6:51 PM

2015-01-28T18:51:46-05:00

Forget it, let her have it. You can ask her to come with you off to the side if not then we can do this right here in front of everyone. The choice is hers, but if she is going to give you a attitude then fix now along with her uniform. If she doesn't then report her butt and send her packing.....if they want to act like a punk and disgrace the uniform, then treat them like it...get in their face. Maybe they miss the boot camp treatment.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-01-28T18:57:11-05:00

Here are my thoughts about on-the spot corrections.

1: Corrections have to be made. As a leader, it's my responsibility to lead. Sometimes that means pulling SPC Longhair there off to the side and pointing out the applicable paragraphs in 670-1.
2: If I don't make them, who will? If I am not going to make the corrections, who am I expecting to do it? Perhaps the guy serving concessions should?
3: When I let a standard slip, I "create a new standard." Since neither you nor I have the authority to rewrite policy, I don't want my inaction to give someone else the false idea that they have permission to be jacked up too.
4: Junior leaders need to see other leaders making corrections. If one of my squad or team leaders watches me "turn a blind eye" to this kind of situation, what should I expect them to do in the same situation?
5: Doing the right thing isn't always comfortable...but who guaranteed me comfort? Since when do leaders have the luxury of only doing the right thing when it's comfortable?

If you put those things together, the question isn't whether or not I should say something but whether or not I should use the knife hand while saying it.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 7:10 PM

2015-01-28T19:10:53-05:00

In my 21yrs I have seen these things more than I would like to mention. Where I am stationed now it is more prevelant than I would like to say. I can't go to the mall on a weekend without seeing someone wearing their uniform improperly. I know that for some spouses it may seem embarrassing but if we as leaders do not make it a necessity to correct this behavior immediately then we are condoning it. When I was a young Sailor I was quick to point out someone else's deficiencies if they pointed out mine but I have also grown and learned from the mistakes of my past. Don't allow anyone to ever getaway with disrespecting any services uniform. I see uniformed members from all branches on a weekly basis and keep pictures and uniform requirements for all branches so that when they enter my facility and try to say they are wearing the proper uniform I can then correct them. Train your Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airman their uniform regs and make them understand how they can be an example of how to or how not to present the Armed forces. Make them proud to wear the uniform and to hold those accountable who disrespect it. (Drop the mic and step off soap box)

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 7:10 PM

2015-01-28T19:10:58-05:00

I don't think she should be wearing her duty uniform to a movie theater anyway.

Response by SSG Monique Endriss made Jan 28 at 2015 7:40 PM

2015-01-28T19:40:18-05:00

I find it a shame that you even have to pose that question. I will refrain from calling that SPC a soldier, a true soldier would not have to be told how to wear the uniform... Her attitude, both in what she said and the way she looks, is a disgrace to the uniform and others that serve. She should lose that rank until she is responsible enough to wear it. A little extra duty wouldn't hurt her!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-01-28T20:04:09-05:00

you should not back down. PERIOD. if you know the name of the solider you can find more info. TELL her don't ask to correct her self once then if she makes a big issue you tell her fine ill take it up with your chain of command. a spc of that moral barring should not be a SPC.

Response by SSgt Stevan Auldridge made Jan 28 at 2015 8:43 PM

2015-01-28T20:43:12-05:00

Pull her aside and explain the issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 8:44 PM

2015-01-28T20:44:26-05:00

I would have stood right next to her and just kept looking at her after she rolled her eyes until she decided to give me her 1SG's name, Commander and or decided to leave.

Response by SSgt Rick Glime made Jan 28 at 2015 8:51 PM

2015-01-28T20:51:59-05:00

What get's my attention and kind of "Grinds my gears" is her total lack of respect, first and foremost, for herself as a soldier. If you're going to wear the uniform in public, you need to be proud of that uniform, and you need to be proud that you wear it. So wear it right! The general public's perception of you in uniform, reflects on the military as a whole. Yes I would have pulled her to the side for a private conversation, but I would have given her "Both barrels". A block of instruction she wouldn't soon forget!

Response by CPO Charles Patterson made Jan 28 at 2015 9:00 PM

2015-01-28T21:00:27-05:00

I believe the correct action was not to cause a scene and bring discredit to the Army but I think that the name could have been reported and give the command an opportunity to provide further training.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-01-28T21:13:52-05:00

What I've not heard mentioned is that according to the most recent 670-1 the soldier was in major violation just by being in ACU's to see a movie. The wear of battle dress has been curtailed in public I would suggest keeping up with the changes in the Regs. and ensure the Soldiers have been made aware.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jan 28 at 2015 9:18 PM

2015-01-28T21:18:49-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Great post, It takes character and intestine fortitude to make the hard right over the easy wrong call, by having pride for the uniform and enforcing the regulation instead of letting it go. Shows a lot of leadership by doing what's right in the absence of orders. I say hoooha.

Response by PFC James Massey made Jan 28 at 2015 9:37 PM

2015-01-28T21:37:40-05:00

If she was wearing official rank/insignia/branch identification, then perhaps a correction would be necessary. However, at what point are we realistically concerned about army regs...and at what point are we becoming anally retentive butter bars? You know? Nowhere near a military installation...a huge number of military surplus stores across the country that sell military uniforms, etc...the general public doesn't necessarily see someone in a "uniform" as a person of the armed forces. Chances are, she wasn't truly enlisted. There are a lot of stolen valor cases out there these days.

Response by SSgt Heather Capra made Jan 28 at 2015 10:16 PM

2015-01-28T22:16:48-05:00

It is always appropriate to make on the spot corrections -especially if you are an NCO. Kindly but firmly instruct (her) to square up. If it is blatant disregard be sure to let word get to (her) chain of command that she was out of regs in public and let them address the issue further. No need to make a crazy scene but you shouldn't show fear before a subordinate, especially in public. Do what you swore to do.

Response by Capt Michael Brown made Jan 28 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-01-28T22:23:13-05:00

Condoning a behavior is as bad as endorsing it. You did right by addressing the problem. Going to the next level by contacting the command was merited by the 'eye roll'. My teenagers don't get by with it either. I approached a young Marine in the airport last year with his Alpha blouse unbuttoned. I asked to speak with him without even identifying myself. When I pointed out the fact of him being out of uniform, he apologised and immediately buttoned up. Everyone makes mistakes on occasion, but disrespect will always push the next button on me.

Response by SPC Michael Leslie made Jan 28 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-01-28T22:23:19-05:00

Make the correction on the spot, it only takes a second to save a life. It may be yours .

Response by SSgt Kelly Walston made Jan 28 at 2015 10:56 PM

2015-01-28T22:56:47-05:00

I agree with SMSgt Gerald A. Thomas. We all know how small this world can be. Would love to be there when she runs into you again with you both in uniform, and she remembers you.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-01-28T23:08:05-05:00

Can I just say, that it's sadly nice to hear that it's not just my service that has such attitudes. I don't understand it, it's not like anybody does not realize uniforms are part of the contract upon joining.
That said, leadership means the responsibility of confronting issues, no matter how uncomfortable. By shooting for or achieving an advancement, you have to understand that your accepting that responsibility, not just a pay raise. That's WHY you get a raise in pay.
And as a person who is quite bothered by disrespect of uniforms, it's incredibly disheartening to feel like I'm the only one who cares at a unit. By you speaking up, you may have an annoyed SPC, (who needs to see some strong leadership), but you also make the job easier for all down the line. This SPC feels she can behave this way because she's been been allowed to behave this way through observer inaction. What other regs are being ignored because of such disrespect?

Response by SP6 John Harris made Jan 28 at 2015 11:19 PM

2015-01-28T23:19:19-05:00

I would of shone my retired ID card and corrected her.

Response by CPO William Zaczek made Jan 28 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-01-28T23:21:21-05:00

Making a bad decision worse by "pulling rank" on someone who clearly does not understand the regulations would just make the senior out to be the bad guy. Get the name and their divsion or work group and take it to her Senior NCO. This may cause the SNCO to aks you some questions but I would take that chance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 11:25 PM

2015-01-28T23:25:52-05:00

To be honest, I would have tried to get as much info about her as possible (name, unit patch, something) and do a little digging to get to this Soldiers leadership. Oh you want to have an attitude, lets see how your Brigade CSM feels about having a shitbird in their ranks.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-01-28T23:55:27-05:00

How about the other services just ban the wear of the utility uniform like the Marine Corps does? Utilities have always been considered working uniforms anyways, is it really that hard to go home after work and change. If you want to show your support for your service then go home and put on one of the Dress or Service uniforms that are authorized for liberty!

Response by LCpl Roy Stevens made Jan 29 at 2015 12:03 AM

2015-01-29T00:03:03-05:00

If it were me and I saw a shitbird in public, I would have identified myself by rank and chewed her a new one then reported her to her Commanding Officer for an NJP on her stupid ass.

Response by PO1 Danny Wright made Jan 29 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-01-29T00:08:52-05:00

So it was ok to violate her privacy by taking a picture of her in public and posting it to a public forum. Personally I think you're a douchebag for asking for help on this matter. Either you have the stones to pull her aside and correct her or just let it go. We can all see why you are career military and wouldn't be able to cut it at a real job. What a sorry person.

Response by PO3 David Gann made Jan 29 at 2015 12:10 AM

2015-01-29T00:10:20-05:00

I would at least got her unit contact and addressed it with them do to the lack of respect and being rude

Response by Sgt Michael Selbach made Jan 29 at 2015 1:17 AM

2015-01-29T01:17:42-05:00

I once asked a Sgt about what he was wearing outside of Camp Pendelton... I asked out of anyone's ear shot. He asked me my rank ...at the time I was an Lance corporal . he punched me in the face and said don't ever ask anyone above you to justify what they are doing. I was chastised. The next year I met a corporal that was assigned under me... it was the same guy from before... and now I was the guy above him he said "you look familiar" I said so you watch a lot of pron do ya?

Response by SFC Rick Giltner made Jan 29 at 2015 2:11 AM

2015-01-29T02:11:20-05:00

I am disgusted by this photo and would have addressed this issue immediately, with no problem. This Soldier is fully aware of AR 670-1 reference her hair and has chose to be defiant. She is one of those Soldiers that are on their way out the door, more than likely. But, alot of the time it falls back on the first line leader not enforcing the regulation or setting the example. Just as I watched a LTC and a CW4 in Homestead Fl get out of their truck walk across a parking lot wearing no headgear and stand at an outside eatery ordering food and acting as though they were untouchable. They proceeded to sit next to me as I was waiting for my food. I asked the LTC if the Army wore headgear anymore. His reply was "are you serious or joking". I responded " I am serious Sir and don't you think as a leader you need to be setting the example for other Soldiers". His response was " I do sometimes". I literally almost lost my mind at that moment. Neither of them ever did go get their headgear, but as they started to walk away I stated to them " way to set the standards Sir". So leaders, set the example for Soldiers to follow.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 2:38 AM

2015-01-29T02:38:50-05:00

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 5:54 AM

2015-01-29T05:54:52-05:00

I believe you were justified in addressing her; however, if she was actually in the Army and she rolled her eyes at you, that to me says that she does not give a rats a** about her appearance as a soldier. You could have pressed the issue if you really wanted to, but you were likely going to get a nasty attitude regardless.

Response by SGT KellyAnn Piergiorgi made Jan 29 at 2015 5:55 AM

2015-01-29T05:55:53-05:00

I, being retired, would've made an on the spot correction. Especially when she rolled her eyes at me. I would have kindly took her aside and made her make that correction. Then I would've got her NCO's name and unit .

Response by GySgt Joy Parrish made Jan 29 at 2015 6:05 AM

2015-01-29T06:05:54-05:00

AR670-1 does not have an expiration time and date as far as I know. Long time military veteran and retiree but I ain't been gone that long. I have made these on the spot corrections before and always with tact and consideration for the person and the loved ones they may be with at the time (EVEN before Iphones). I always approached them with proper etiquette and pulled them to the side when speaking with them. I never had someone roll their eyes at me, maybe after I left but I stayed til they fixed themselves. I am proud of everyone who serves and puts on the uniform, but always make sure it's done correctly. Too many fakes out there now.

Response by 1SG Chuck Schnepfe made Jan 29 at 2015 6:53 AM

2015-01-29T06:53:20-05:00

You should have reported the incident to the G-1 and gotten one of those mad ARCOMs for yourself.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 6:55 AM

2015-01-29T06:55:37-05:00

i do have a question concerning this topic. if you are a lower enlisted do you still have the authority to correct an NCO who is all screwed up?

Response by PFC Murrell Sawyer made Jan 29 at 2015 7:20 AM

2015-01-29T07:20:42-05:00

i would have corrected it then and there 99% of the time the second you tell them your rank their attitudes change.....just the fact that she rolled her eyes about it is sad though.

Response by MSG George Tremblay made Jan 29 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-01-29T07:52:14-05:00

I made on the spot correction all the time. I walked up to the person with my ID out and ask for theirs. I f they said anything negative I ask for their commander's name. If you love the uniform then as an NCO you must defend it. Unwanted heat comes with the leadership role.

Response by SGT Jonathan Wronski made Jan 29 at 2015 8:08 AM

2015-01-29T08:08:49-05:00

The correct answer is anytime is appropriate for on the spot corrections. What the new generation of Soldiers needs to understand is that whenever they are wearing something, or saying something, that associates them with the U.S. Armed Forces, they are an Ambassador for whatever branch they are serving in. Their failure to adhere to the standards is setting a poor example for whatever group of people they happen to be around. We are supposed to be professionals, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines 24-7, not just when we are in uniform. Any actions taken by individuals associating themselves with the U.S. Armed Forces are taken not as actions of an individual, but that of the entire Military community.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 8:45 AM

2015-01-29T08:45:37-05:00

Soldiers should avoid doing things in public in their duty uniforms. The potential for being the target of an on-the-spot correction serves as a reasonable and adequate motivator to change when possible. Every single thing we do in that uniform makes our actions more than our own, so going to a movie becomes official business. As such, it is subject to all of the obligations inherent thereto. In fairness though, it might also be noted that the obligations of the NCO may not continue when the authority is not worn on the same uniform. We NCO's know that we are never free of our obligation to maintain order, discipline, and the respectable presentation of our uniform, and as such, if she does not want to be hassled, she should bring a change of clothes. If she is on duty, she is out of uniform and in dereliction. If she is off duty she needs to change.

Response by SSgt David Love made Jan 29 at 2015 9:47 AM

2015-01-29T09:47:03-05:00

If you're not in her chain of command or unit I'd think you didn't have enough to do. Most people have no clue and in some cases it's rather nice to blend in a bit more.

Response by MSG Danny Stanley made Jan 29 at 2015 10:49 AM

2015-01-29T10:49:44-05:00

I have had this issue several times in the past. Fortunately for the offender, my ex-wife pulled me back and insisted I didn't "harass" the offender. Last Sunday I was at BWI when I saw a group of Airmen returning from deployment. They had been drinking and a couple of them were punchy and rolling around on the floor acting like fools. I was not in uniform, so I pulled out my ID card and pulled one of them aside and told him he better get his Airmen under control. I hated to do it, I know we've all been deployed and I understand the celebratory mood, but (as I explained to the Airman) there is a time and place for everything.

I believe in your case you probably should have followed through. Once you start the correction, might as well finish it. No sense "half-assing" it. She saw you walk away midway through the correction, and took it as a victory on her part. Now she thinks she can get away with more.

Response by Capt Andrew Cosgrove made Jan 29 at 2015 10:54 AM

2015-01-29T10:54:22-05:00

Many years ago, I was visiting my Brother in CT. There is no Marine Corps facility other than recruiters within several hundred miles. We were at a local mall, and my brother pointed out a LCpl walking into a store that had his service alphas on. Well that would be generous.

He had taken his Alpha Coat off, unbuttoned the collar of the shirt, loosened the tie, and rolled up the sleeves. It was obvious that he was home on leave after just finishing recruit training. I walked up to him in my civvies, and said: "Hey there Marine! How long you been home?" He was with a girl so I figured it was a girlfriend and I didn't want to embarass him.

He responded with some pride in his voice "Hello sir, I've been home for a few days now." I gave him my ID which showed my rank and that I was on active duty. His face kind of blanched at this point. His only experience with Captains thus far I am sure, was not of the positive kind.

I said to him very jovially and kindly "Marine, if you are proud of that uniform, please go into the men's room and correct yourself. I don't want sloppy Marines representing our corps."

He looked at me, blinked once, said "Aye, aye sir!" and told his girlfriend "Honey I need to go to the bathroom."

There was another time that I was brand new 2ndLt and I was part of the Air Group Staff. I had to attend these meetings every morning with the Colonel and the other members of his staff. I happened to be the Fiscal Officer (which is a Capt Billet but I was what was available). Anyway, the Colonel was in the outer office getting himself a cup of coffee when I noticed that the one of sizing tabs on the back of his utility blouse was unbuttoned.

I walked up to him and said quietly: "Excuse me sir. Your blouse tab is unbuttoned."

He looked at me with this very calm look like what I had done was create balance in the world. "Thank you Lieutenant." He quickly buttoned it.

That Friday we had an Officer's call at the Club for some Military PME presentation. Afterwards the Colonel made a beeline to me at the bar. I was with several other Lt's and Capt's. The Colonel shoved a mug of beer in my hand and said loudly enough for every other officer in the room to hear:

"A toast! To 2ndLT Cosgrove who had enough balls to correct a Colonel, enough intelligence to do it tactfully, and an Esprit De Corps that will serve him well. Thank you Lt for correcting my uniform the other day. Gentlemen may you all have enough pride in your corps to be willing to correct a senior officer tactfully when needed."

That one incident taught me that when you are right, you should never fear what needs to be done, so long as you do it tactfully. That Colonel was a leader of Marines who I will always remember.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 11:29 AM

2015-01-29T11:29:13-05:00

So let me get this straight. You, as a Staff Sergeant, backed down from a SPC while making a correction just because she was throwing attitude your way? You should probably sit down and rethink exactly what your profession, as an NCO, really means to you. And we, as a collective service, wonder why the ranks are running around without any sense of self discipline and or fear of being corrected.
On that note, I would have jumped not only jumped all over that SPC with the attitude, I would have kindly escorted her out of the movie theater. Then the next day, I would have made a visit to her unit and had a talk with not only her company commander but her Sergeant Major.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Jan 29 at 2015 11:46 AM

2015-01-29T11:46:34-05:00

I would have punked her.....I would pray that a pvt would challenge me in public hahahahahaha I relish in that giggles

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 12:05 PM

2015-01-29T12:05:12-05:00

I have found that 90 percent of the time if you are direct and respecful, troops actually thank you for correcting them.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jan 29 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-01-29T12:27:33-05:00

A few years ago I .(retired Marine..not an ex)...was passing through Atlanta Airport... On one of the big moving sidewalks going the 10 miles or whatever it was to the next concourse ... saw off in the distance a young Marine going the other way. He was in his green Alpha dress uniform... carrying a duffle bag. As we approached each other going in opposite directions and about 25 yards apart I saw that he was a bit disheveled. His coat was unbuttoned and his coat belt undone and hanging loose. His tie was loosend and top shirt button was undone. I thought.. he might be just off one of those long, boring flights, just back from overseas, maybe heading home for the first time in months.. anxious to see family and friends and not thinking about uniforms and regs.. I sympathaized for about a second..then in my best and loudest Marine voice I belted out " You better square yourself away, Marine!". He didn't hesitate to look around to see where it came from.... he knew it was directed at him.. he dropped everything and in less than 15 seconds he was buttoned up and all of a sudden just another Marine in uniform. People around me just smiled.. the people around him stared at him like 'WTF just happened.".. He'll be more careful in the future.

Response by SFC Lewis Johnson made Jan 29 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-01-29T12:42:28-05:00

I identify your self as an NCO/Sr. NCO ask for their ID CARD and unit information. Take their pictures, facial view and see if ID Card data Center can do a Facial Recog. Time permitting, follow them and get the Post Decal number from the vehicle. Provost can provide unit info. Just suggestions.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-01-29T12:44:51-05:00

I would tell her she looks like a bag of Dicks, I mean; sub sandwich sounds more political correct, and she probably reply: I'm in the ARMY for the paycheck.. you can't make me do it..

Response by SSG Heriberto Velazquez made Jan 29 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-01-29T12:44:53-05:00

I'm retired and I get on young troops still. I'll correct them in a nice way. I know I have no authority over them but it will make them aware they are being watched.

Response by 1stLt Joe Swatzell made Jan 29 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-01-29T12:45:48-05:00

That is a tough spot. Her civilian male acquaintance would very likely have fed her attitude, because since she obviously doesn't care, why should he?
The best thing may be to get her name and unit and let them deal with it....but follow up to see that SOMETHING was done.
She is being paid 24/7, and accruing leave 24/7....she needs to be worthy 24/7.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 1:04 PM

2015-01-29T13:04:11-05:00

I wear the Uniform in Pride, because of the men and women that died in all the previous wars give me the right to defend my Country, Constitution, Flag, and Oath while wearing it. To Dishonor them and me by not complying is a violation Of the Military Code of Conduct. I would have asked her to step outside and formally discussed my rank, her appearance and her disrespect for all others that Share that Uniform and I would have put her on Report to the Military authorities, if she did not comply. Self Respect has to be foremost while wearing the Uniform of the United States Military. Appearance counts on how people think of us. SFC Daniel T. Marthers Retired.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 1:38 PM

2015-01-29T13:38:28-05:00

I think you handled it correctly.

Response by Cpl William Warren made Jan 29 at 2015 2:01 PM

2015-01-29T14:01:07-05:00

1) you should have asked what her mos was.
2) who she was stationed with/ what her unit is.
3) report her to her command.

It does not matter if she is a higher rank. She was out of regs and she should know better.

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 2:04 PM

2015-01-29T14:04:02-05:00

Technically (depending on local rules and regulations as stated) This is all covered by UCMJ Articles 91 and 92. You identify yourself by name and rank (show your I.D. if need be) and go from there. I know at several installations throughout the U.S. it is a CO order to produce your military I.D. if asked.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 2:14 PM

2015-01-29T14:14:42-05:00

My opinion is that we should be proud to wear the uniform. This is what we were taught in boot camp, so I think it is only right to wear it right. She should respect the person who politely tells her to correct herself because she does not know your rank. I am sure that those watching would understand that the military is not a place for slackers. Honor, courage, commitment.

Response by MAJ Travis Pendleton made Jan 29 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-01-29T14:42:56-05:00

Are you still in? Did you ID yourself? That usually makes the recipient display a little less attitude. That said, I think it's good to police ourselves even if we aren't active anymore, I've done it before for soldiers loudly using profane language on a commercial airline (I was off active). If you are on some kind of duty status (active/guard/reserve) I would hope you wouldn't have walked away because of an eye roll. The first line of defense in slipping standards is the NCO corps, if you let it slide, who is going to pick up the slack?

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Jan 29 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-01-29T14:56:03-05:00

SSG,

I feel for you, That is just one of the many reasons the Marine Corps have the Policy of a Marine out in town wearing a Camouflage Utility uniform and not on their way to or from the base (i.e. on leave or liberty) is unauthorized, And back in my day and now if you look out of regs in your Civilian wear you will get straightened out by fellow Marines. To me as a Marine, No offence the wearing of Utility's out in town looked sloppy and unprofessional. And if said Marine did not un-Fuck him or herself right then, they would be Reported to the Chain of Command. Seems Silly or weird to non Marines but it is all about image and Marines are Anal about the Image we give.

Response by PO1 Rodney Bracey made Jan 29 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-01-29T15:01:24-05:00

It's appropriate to make the correction right then and there but tactfully and as respectfully as possible.

I came across a sub Sailor sitting at a Starbucks with his GF while in his working uniform. Not the new NWUs but the older light blue shirt with dark trousers (2004). Prior to any working uniform being allowed for wear off base. This particular Starbucks was about 8 miles away from the sub base at Pearl Harbor.

Being in my Dress Whites I approached the Sailor, identified myself and stated that his uniform wasn't authorized to be worn at off base establishments like Starbucks. I guess he was trying to impress the girl sitting with him as he expressed that I couldn't tell him what to do. So being that the name of his Boat was on his ballcap, I simply stated being that I'm on my way back to PH, I'll be sure to stop by and speak with the COB about the situation.

The Sailor and his GF quickly left but still stopped by the boat to speak with the COB about what happened. The COB said he would take care of it.

About a week later, that Sailor came into my office at MARFORPAC and apologized for the incident.

It's ok to make a scene provided you control the scene, IMO.

Response by PO3 Dj Tessier made Jan 29 at 2015 3:31 PM

2015-01-29T15:31:24-05:00

I would have asked her for her ID and gotten her name of her chain of command. then followed up with them on Monday morning.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-01-29T16:11:08-05:00

First I would have introduced myself with my military rank and then would have asked for her Commander's information. I would have then informed the commander and let that person handle it from there. She's a complete disgrace to the uniform.

Response by SPC Kurtis Paine made Jan 29 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-01-29T16:11:44-05:00

Somebody needs to give you some "on the spot correction" on your wording and grammar. I think maybe you should stay in your lane, brother. It's not your job to police soldiers on their off time. Especially when it's something as trivial as wearing a cover in a mall.

Response by SPC Hardy DeLay made Jan 29 at 2015 4:37 PM

2015-01-29T16:37:24-05:00

I would have said something to her about getting herself unjacked. I lost my dream to continue to serve and would give up a limb to have the honor to wear the uniform again. My Son just stated JROTC. AFTER I gave him a copy of an IET training manual, reminding him the reason he never met his grandfather because he was KIA, and reminded him that many others have given everything so he could wear that uniform. He came in all proud of wearing his uniform but it was all jacked-up. I just about lost it but kept my cool and reminded him again of the pride he should have in those garments and what they represent. Once I showed him what to correct he looked like a great soldier. So yes, step up and step in.
HD

Response by SPC Jarell Moody made Jan 29 at 2015 4:43 PM

2015-01-29T16:43:15-05:00

Well ssg. I give it to you for for restraining yourself because that would not have been me. As soon as she rolled her eyes it was disrespectful, distasteful and in my eyes unbecoming of a soldier. And not saying that you were embarrassed but that's what she was trying to do and I honestly would have made her feel embarrassed rite in front of her civilian friend. That's just me I guess tho. At the end of it all im out not by choice but by Iraq and I still make on the spot corrections I d not care who they or their rank if they are out of uniform and I see it it makes the entire army/military look bad. And no one will get my boots or flag spit on because they feel like being in the wrong.

Response by 1SG Joseph Kelly made Jan 29 at 2015 5:00 PM

2015-01-29T17:00:28-05:00

As an NCO you are always on duty. You always make a correction. If you recieve attuide, after identifying your self, you are always within reg to pull that soldier to the side and further "correct" the situtation.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-01-29T17:37:09-05:00

This is one of those "Situational Communication" situations. I think you did the right thing by identifying the issue but after she responded negatively, the appropriate thing for you to do is to introduce yourself (name and rank) Hopefully she changes her tune and squares her self away. If the attitude continues then you crush her on the spot and when the police show up you explain the entirety of the situation her chain of command will undoubtedly be notified.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 5:46 PM

2015-01-29T17:46:50-05:00

The answer is that it is appropriate to correct it every time you see it, whenever you see it, however you see it, for the simple fact that you see it. That being said, how the correction is made is what is going to have the lasting impact on that Soldier. The idea that it should be left alone is not something I agree with at all.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 6:28 PM

2015-01-29T18:28:10-05:00

When I am out in public and see young soldiers in uniform I automatically do a quick head to toe scan. It comes from my time as a drill sergeant. When I see something out of place I get this look on my face. My wife knows it instantly and usually asks if I really have to. She already knows the answer. I will always attempt to approach the individual in a calm quiet manner and get their attention. If they are on the move then they have a great chance of getting away because I am not going to yell across the area and I am not going to chase them down. I know I can't catch all the fish but I am responsible for the ones I get a hook into. If I can approach them, then I quietly let them know of the on the spot correction. I usually do not get any back talk or resistance to correcting the problem because I didn't embarrass them or cause them to lose face. Those that do show resistance get asked to step to the side away from their peers. They usually get more agreeable when they are not having to impress someone. I give them a much longer explanation of who I am, how they are wrong, why they are wrong, what needs to be done to fix it and what possible courses of action can be taken should they refuse to correct the issue or continue the unprofessional conduct. Rarely have I had to take a Soldiers name down and contact his unit for professional development. I usually get accurate information from them because I explain that all I need is the name off their ID and I can get the rest of the information from installation operations.
It is not always the easy path and my wife has started to request compensation for the lost of her time but I believe it is easily worth the costs to ensure Soldiers learn that they are Soldiers all of the time.

Response by SSG Don Waggoner made Jan 29 at 2015 6:34 PM

2015-01-29T18:34:54-05:00

I guess minor infractions don't and didn't bother me too much. I kind of took people having to make minor corrections in non-duty situations as being on power trips. I don't think you should abuse the uniform, blouse open, cap askew, flip-flops instead of boots, or denigrating the uniform and service by being drunk in public, getting in fights, or committing crimes. But, ear buds, hair down, not 100% shaven, hands in pockets, etc. in non-duty situations and non-military locales, not a problem for me. I don't think civilians notice it or care. My main thing is they show up for duty, properly presented, and perform as I ask, in garrison, the field, and combat. There are a lot of new rules retirees don't know about and I don't think just because you're a vet gives you the right to correct a presently serving soldier. Anyway, I see pictures and situations everyday where soldiers, both senior and junior are not the way I was taught to be and got chewed out for not being. It's tough enough being in the military. Some relaxation is needed. I say, lighten up. Correct serious infractions, ignore the others.

Response by SFC Michael Patterson made Jan 29 at 2015 6:42 PM

2015-01-29T18:42:19-05:00

I would have probably lost my mind once she rolled her eyes. My only advise is don't feel that you do not have any authority to do your job and remember there is just only so much you can legally do without getting yourself in trouble (i.e. wall to wall counseling). She clearly thinks that you can't do anything to her however she needs dose of reality. The guy she was with is probably her NCO based on the fact you're at CP Humphreys in S. Korea.

Response by 1SG William Svoboda made Jan 29 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-01-29T19:19:39-05:00

I think, no I know the correct answer is to 1st introduce myself and do an on the spot correction without intimidating her or causing a scene. By the picture it seems she is waiting to enter the movie so time plays a role here. Lets not forget the army values here and before anyone states or restates concern for pissing her off or her civilian friend interfering, Personal Courage is on the list. If she appears this way in public then the question is what other area of the army values does she piss on? What does the way she carry herself say about her leadership?

Response by SSG Anthony Richmond made Jan 29 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-01-29T19:34:50-05:00

as NCO's you have a responsibility to teach the younger "SM's", just cause you dont like the rules , maybe you shouldn't be a "NCO"., now get your F-ing hand out of your pockets.

Response by SFC Glenn Cornett made Jan 29 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-01-29T19:43:11-05:00

You should have asked the individual to come and stand aside after showing your ID card. We have regulations and an appearance to maintain while out in public and in uniform. The post this individual is assigned to should have a memo to the lowest unit, stating, If and when an individual in any of the branches is allowed to wear the uniform off post, most will state directly to their off-post residence, only stopping if in need of fuel. In regards to this so-called NCO, SSG Robert Quayle, who needs to have his CSM seriously question how this individual made SSG in the first place. He is a reflection of what a great NCO Corps has been reduced to with the current administration, I am old school SSG Quayle, I also have four combat tours to Iraq, two to Afghanistan. I see your hands in your pocket and you make the remarks you stated, be prepared for a medical board. I stand for what the NCO Corps was and I was never relieved of that oath.

Response by SFC Patrick Quichocho made Jan 29 at 2015 8:23 PM

2015-01-29T20:23:48-05:00

All great responses below!! The key word here is Tact!! Whenever in an civilian type of environment use discretion and tact. Soldiers are soldiers 24/7/365 remember they also represent who you are and being an NCO let no soldier disrespect the uniform. She had 3 strikes I would've jumped her shit, For one she should not be shopping in uniform, 2 wearing out of regulation and 3 rolling her eyes!! She obviously has a piss poor leadership which she directly reflects. Just remember these young soldiers need guidance. Hell I had plenty of guidance as a troop!!! made me a better soldier!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 8:29 PM

2015-01-29T20:29:32-05:00

Your an NCO, on or off duty so correcting her would have been the right thing to do. You as an NCO are held accountable at all times, remember the NCO creed and let it guide you.
I would have had no problem pulling SPC Ware aside and making that correction, she was in public in uniform and she is representing US, and that is a big message!

Response by SGT Shea McCuen made Jan 29 at 2015 8:31 PM

2015-01-29T20:31:26-05:00

As an NCO that is now out of the Army, I feel like I spend the majority of my weekends making on the spot corrections to all of the national guard kids when they are in town. I don't care if its a major or minor violation, the correction needs to be made. I do try to be friendly when making initial contact and I usually end up matching my attitude with theirs, which tends to spiral out of control because they think I'm just some dumb civilian try to mess with them. I have found the people that have the hardest time being corrected by me are the lower enlisted while the senior enlisted and officers tend to be more thankful for my corrections.

Response by SGT Tim Hoeflich made Jan 29 at 2015 8:40 PM

2015-01-29T20:40:14-05:00

I received an on the spot correction from a CSM when I was a basic trainee home on Christmas exodus. This was 1982 and I was 6 weeks into basic. My father was in a cav unit in '62-'63. He had a gold ascot that he wore when on guard duty and for parades. I was handed this when I was very young and decided to wear it when I took my sister to the mall, right before Christmas. I put this on under my dress green shirt instead of the tie. I was all impressed with myself until I bumped into this CSM in dress green uniform who was with his wife. This man was of course a Vietnam vet and likely Korea too. Mucho fruit salad on his rack. How he handled the matter of my uniform flaw was pure NCO genius. He greeted me and introduced his wife. I introduced my sister. He asked about my BT experience and my advanced training. His wife sensed something and struck up a conversation with my sister, and it was then that he asked about the ascot. He congratulated me on pride in my father's service, asking where and what unit. Then he kindly pointed out that it was not proper uniform, and encouraged me not to do it again. We rejoined the ladies conversation and exchanged Christmas wishes. That was that. My Dad hooted when he heard about it. Class act that CSM was. That experience made me feel part of a larger family.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 8:59 PM

2015-01-29T20:59:08-05:00

My personal opinion is that uniform regs need to be enforced at all times especially out in town. We have a responsibility to honor the respect and traditions of the uniform for any American that ever wore one in service. That being said, tact is key. The way I approach someone on base differs from the way I approach them in town. I am far more discreet when off base as people seem to jump on the defensive much quicker once they've left the gates. As far as whether they are active, guard, or reserve, I don't care. We are all charged with the same accountability to the regs.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-01-29T21:04:24-05:00

Yes you should Identify yourself and give her direction on how to correct herself, she is still representing the army

Response by SGT Todd Cathey made Jan 29 at 2015 9:20 PM

2015-01-29T21:20:33-05:00

Take this jack ass aside and make the necessary correction, too many better than the SPC died wearing that uniform. How dare you dis-respect that

Response by Cpl Mike Bischoff made Jan 29 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-01-29T21:32:41-05:00

It's always appropriate to square someone who is UNSAT. I do it all the time when any branch member comes to my place of business. I introduce myself as a former Marine and proceed to "lock them on" the correct manner of attire and how to present themselves.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-01-29T21:41:44-05:00

Young soldier never be afraid to make an on the spot correction! You could even change your tone and ask what unit the soldier is in, to at least advise his/her chain of command. When any soldier or leader walks past a violation of military standards, they have just created a new standard for all to follow.
It is called an "ethical dilemma ", and it presents you with challenge of whether or not to choose the harder right, over the easier wrong. Choose the easier right, and you will never be wrong. Victory starts with you! Army Strong!
CSM Brooks

Response by SSG Loran Osborne made Jan 29 at 2015 10:50 PM

2015-01-29T22:50:14-05:00

Remember, both you and she are representatives, Ambassadors if you will, of the US Army in public. Her uniform violation should result in a quiet on the spot correction, perhaps in an area slightly separated from her company and yours ("May I speak with you over here for a moment?"). In the event that she still desired to make a scene, I would have noted her name and rank in full view of her, and then walked away, apologizing to the GF for the embarrassment, and then used the anecdote to educate my Soldiers. I would keep her name in case she makes any groundless claims against you to her COC, who clearly would not have the whole story until you weighed in when they asked around.

SSG Loran Osborne, USA (Ret.)

Response by SFC Ian Lumgair made Jan 29 at 2015 11:03 PM

2015-01-29T23:03:39-05:00

This is not going to be popular but here goes. What effort has that troop up to this point in her career to prove she has earned the right to be part of a proud service that requires self discipline, willingness to change, pride in self, unit, service, and country. What over-whelming need does that troop, have to show, not only does her uniform and behavior reflect who she is but, who she serves with directly, I.E. her peers. Has she gone through a trial that changes her physically intellectually and spiritually for the rest of her life.Can she truly consider that up to the point where he she it stepped of the bus a Camp OMFG and was treated to (x) no of weeks where he she did not know if she was going to make it. when she made and graduated she knew that for the rest of her life she can look at that moment and say I have truly accomplished what I previously thought impossible. Is she head a shoulders above her civilian peers in formal and informal training. does her position mean something? The fact is it does not as much as it should. Service is a privilege not an entitlement I agree get her unit information call Provost Marshall make sure her CSM knows and understands the nature and scope of how she violated regulation. But THAT IS A BANDAID fix the problem. Fix who and how you indoctrinated and train these troops and you will only have this kind of stupid problem on a rare occasion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 11:52 PM

2015-01-29T23:52:50-05:00

I would first pull her aside and then make the correction.

Response by SSG Fritz Miller made Jan 30 at 2015 12:17 AM

2015-01-30T00:17:20-05:00

The Soldier was in the wrong and she was to be corrected NCO's lose the battle because we are 2nd guessing our selves on general authority and you have general authority on and off duty. Attitude or no attitude do not allow this type of behavior to go on it gives the uniform a bad look. Pull her to the side make your corrections and move on with your trip in the mall.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 4:23 AM

2015-01-30T04:23:40-05:00

Whenever I see anyone in public doing something not in regulation or making a correction, if I am not in uniform I pull out my ID card and identify myself. I then quietly let them know what I see is wrong and if they know that whatever the infraction is is wrong. I then have them fix themselves and if they start to give me an attitude that is when I start asking the questions on what unit, first sergeant, etc.... That generally gets them to drop the attitude real quick. Most of the time if you are polite and use tact the Soldiers correct themselves.

Response by PFC Joseph Britnell made Jan 30 at 2015 4:29 AM

2015-01-30T04:29:21-05:00

What if a PFC sees an NCO breaking regs should the PFC correct the NCO and face their attitude or go quietly about their business? Because I have gotten in trouble for correcting a SGT when I was stationed at Fort Leavenworth. I am not agreeing with what the soldier done I would have even corrected her as well ( I still do that when I see military people out of regs, Seen a recruiter the other day out of regs). But I see in all the responses that all the higher ups have the I am better than you attitude. Yes the rank demands respect I get that but also treating a person with respect will get you some too. I had a hard time while I was in I did everything I was told to do but yet always got in trouble for something, I was over weight by Army standards but yet I could max out PT test but yet still had to do extra PT after shift. It is sad when certain soldiers are treated differently.... I was treated differently but that is another topic to be discussed and I would like your feedback on it when I do post because I would like to get see how higher ups would handle it and did what was done to me. I need to get it out there because it has been eating me up since it happened to me in 2001

Response by SPC Erik Atkinson made Jan 30 at 2015 6:40 AM

2015-01-30T06:40:18-05:00

I agree with the fact that you stepped away from a situation that could escalated out of control quickly. I also agree with the fact that an on the spot correction needed to be made, however in that case I would have, like others have commented, pulled her to the side once she answered yes and made myself known and handle it "within house". One reason for this suggestion would be the boyfriend could have misinterpreted what you were trying to do and could have attacked you as a means of protecting her. Most civilians are unaware of the standards that we, as members of the all volunteer, PROFESSIONAL Army have to abide by. I am glad and thankful every day for the those values that were instilled in me to care about my appearance in and out of uniform.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 8:18 AM

2015-01-30T08:18:46-05:00

That's when you pull out your ID card, ask her to step aside somewhere off to the side. Tell her who you are and ask to see her ID card. Get her full name, unit and command info. Tell her she has the choice to: A) fix herself now, B) remove all name, rank, and Army tapes, or C) you will be contacting her command. If she doesn't want to give up the info you can always see if it's on AKO and/or use a base locator service. As NCO's, if we don't make these corrections our young soldiers cannot grow and represent as they should.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 8:35 AM

2015-01-30T08:35:43-05:00

Although I am good and retired I still believe in good order and discipline. Not too long ago I was at a mall in Richmond and saw a few troopers ambling about with PC on, hands in pockets, and iPhone ear buds in. I pulled the senior ranking of the group aside (a SPC) and showed him my ID card and asked himself and his peers in line. He was weighing whether or not to give me attitude but when I quoted the current 670-1 and let him know I had no problem driving to Ft Lee and talking to his C of C he quickly got everyone straight.

The point is that if you don't enforce good order and discipline (on or off post and on or off duty) then you are enabling and condoning the behavior. The Army gets a bad rap for a lot of things - the least we can do as NCOs and Officers is ensure that our Soldiers are doing the right thing whether anyone is looking or not.

Response by PO2 Jon Cardoza made Jan 30 at 2015 8:40 AM

2015-01-30T08:40:37-05:00

I started reading some of the main responses above; the general consensus is that you should have hemmed her up....my response to that statistic:

ROGER THAT!

Ladies and Gentlemen...the uniforms we wear (or wore in my case) are to be worn with Honor! That means the appropriate haircuts and applicable uniform attire to fit the specific uniform code for the applicable branch of which the wearer resides.

I know there have been a lot of changes as to what uniforms can be worn out in town, whether out to dinner or to see a movie with a friend or loved one, but the changes in uniform do not change how we wear it or how we present ourselves when representing the branch of service we are in or the MILITARY in general.

My conversation with her would have been strictly in NCO fashion to ensure she was informed of her mistake, aware of my disapproval as an NCO and understanding of how uncouth her appearance was:

"...First off N.U.B. (None Useful Body) I want you to be aware that this is going to be a CHECK VALVE (One Way) conversation regarding your FUBAR (F*d Up Beyond All Recognition/Repair) appearance. You look like a SOUP SANDWICH (sloppy mess). I am not sure if you GUNDECKED (Half A$$ed) your SEABAG/RUCKSACK (Initial uniforms given in boot camp that all Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen should keep complete with the proper quantities of specified items) but the SUMMER CREASES (Some creases are here, some creases are there) you have makes it look like you pulled this uniform out of a dirty hamper that was sitting in the back of your closet for a year. Your current appearance and the fact you have apparently decided to say "F" the military, by mixing and matching your PT gear with your ACU's is beyond reproach..."

I would then turn to the immediately surrounding personnel (as you were in a mall, I am sure the Veteran to Civilian count was 6 out of every 10) and informed them of the BLUE FALCON (Someone who is out for themselves) that seemed to think that a military uniform could be mixed, matched and worn however the heck she deemed fit. I would ask would ask all Veterans to make a show of hands to better show this BAG NASTY (disgusting unappealing bag of food....similar to Soup Sandwich) the amount of personnel that have "gone before you to defend with Honor, Courage, Commitment and Integrity" and let her know that she essentially was flipping all of them the BIRD.

Congrats SPC (absolutely ZERO) WARE (withal). you have successfully screwed up my morning.

Response by SPC Joseph F Dolloff made Jan 30 at 2015 8:45 AM

2015-01-30T08:45:03-05:00

I would have asked her to the side, for a moment, and given her the chance to do an on the spot correction. As an NCO, you giving her corrective discipline, would have been a lawful order, providing that you had properly identified yourself. I also would have ascertained her unit, and CO's name, and passed the info on, to the proper chain of command. There is just no excuse! I've been out for 31 years, and still find myself correcting soldiers, in public places. My other pet peeve........the wrongful display of the US flag. (But that's another topic! :)

Response by SGT Ray Montoya made Jan 30 at 2015 10:41 AM

2015-01-30T10:41:58-05:00

I am sorry but the new soldiers now days don't have the respect and the honor that we had in the early 80's. The reason is the way society has changed. The soldiers are babied compared to what we went through. If it wasn't for the liberal social community our soldiers would not have the problems that they have. Do not get me wrong I am proud of my brothers and sisters that serve but I am not proud of what they get away with.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 11:15 AM

2015-01-30T11:15:09-05:00

You should have identified yourself and asked her to follow you about 10 feet away. If she said no, you could then be a little more forceful in direcing her to 1) fix herself, 2) get her 1SG's name an number, and 3) inform her that her "attitude" is getting in the way of her becoming an NCO one day. Of course, you can do all of the above while retaining your military bearing and professionalism.

Response by SPC Chris Taylor made Jan 30 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-01-30T11:42:58-05:00

Tough question, but shows a total lack of military bearing on her part.

Response by SPC(P) Craig Kupras made Jan 30 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-01-30T12:26:20-05:00

I would have asked her why she was in uniform, followed by, "If you're going to wear it in public, then wear it correctly."

Response by CW3 David Covey made Jan 30 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-01-30T13:03:53-05:00

Back in the day..lol Ft Hood used to have Courtesy Patrols in the Killeen mall. Then in Korea we used to have what we called leadership walks, through the ville. Part of the duty included conducting on the spot corrections, and to prevent soldiers from acting ignorant. So yes corrective action was warranted..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-01-30T13:15:09-05:00

NCO's have general military authority, a leader is a leader 24 hours a day, seven days a week, not when its convenient. The correction would be required especially in public because a Soldier is also a Soldier 24 hours a day 7 days a week. NCO's are also the keepers of the standards, and if we allow a lower standard (such as not enforcing AR 670-1) then we have just allowed a new lower standard. There is of course the importance of using tact in such a situation. Calling out the Soldier in front of this forum is a weak thing to do. Nor does it really accomplish the original intent, all it does is show this forum that the poster of this message is indecisive, and also jumps the chain. I'm sure the specialist has a supervisor, the poster should have identified the supervisor and let the supervisor take corrective action on their subordinate. Especially if the SPC disrespected the NCO poster (which is a UCMJ violation, disrespecting an NCO).

Response by SPC Christopher Vaughn made Jan 30 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-01-30T14:20:16-05:00

I had a guy pull me to the side inside a Publix due to wearing my Field Jacket, now I was not in uniform, and I'm a vet. He wanted to really make a big deal out of my combat patch (3rd Id) and the proceeded to give me the 21 questions about my service and when did i serve and what bases and Fobs.

First thing i asked him "Have you ever been deployed?" He said no, I turned and walked away.

There's a time and place to correct, but make sure your right first.

Thats just the way I see it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-01-30T16:31:23-05:00

Were it me regardless of if she was gonna have an attitude or not I would have made her correct it and scene at the mall be damned because as an NCO you lead the way and as a SPC she is on her way up the ranks as well, so if a senior NCO can't address the issue and make a correction so she would know better, then when she gets into that position she would have done the exact same thing you did, absolutely nothing to put that soldier back on track.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-01-30T17:03:13-05:00

As NCO's we have to hold ourselves to a high standard, so it is very important for us to make our subordinates uphold that standard as well. If we don't, we are as guilty as they are for not making them adhere to the standard. In your situation, I would've asked to speak to her in private for a minute. I would have politely walked up to that Soldier and asked her if she was actually a Soldier. I even probably would have thanked her for her service. Also, I would have asked her what unit she belonged too. Once she would have given me the Unit that she is assigned too. I would have identified myself by showing her my Military ID (If I wasn't in uniform). I then would have insisted (in a kind manner) that she make the necessary corrections to her uniform as well as to her hair. If she would have given me attitude, I would have reminded her that giving attitude is a form of disrespect and can be punishable by UMCJ. I also would've have reminded her I know what Unit she is in, and will be informing her Chain of Command if she didn't make the corrections right then.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-01-30T17:56:31-05:00

This is a tough one.

I would suggest that after identifying the person as a soldier and validating it via having them present I.D. take down their information and report it to their chain of command, snap a few photos as evidence.

If you're near the base (which it sounds like this was) then have the S.M. call their chain of command on the spot to self report and depart to correct the situation.

And because some service members can be a little shady, if they appear to cooperate and leave, maybe find a nice bench somewhere to sit and people watch and see if they're still meandering about the mall afterwards.

Response by Sgt Harlin Seritt made Jan 30 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-01-30T18:08:14-05:00

Not sure about the Army but if you're in the Marine Corps it's kind of expected. If it's someone of the same rank or higher I wouldn't have said anything but if I'm a Sergeant and see E-4s and below not wearing the uniform properly or acting disorderly (within reason), you're compelled to say something with tact (of course). It would take a lot for me to have read the riot act to them even back then.

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Jan 30 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-01-30T19:20:25-05:00

Should have absolutely made the correction. She's representing the uniform. First question I would have asked her is why is she in uniform? Was she still on duty? If she's Reserve of NG once they sign out during the weekend drill (aka Battle Assembly), they're done - meaning uniform comes off.

Response by CPL David Riopelle Spencer made Jan 30 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-01-30T19:46:40-05:00

I would have asked for he ID, made a mental note of her/their names and then made them do pushups till they couldn't do more. What has happened to the Army? Afraid of hurting feelings? Maybe its the Infantryman in me but enough is enough. Do it right or get out.

Response by SGT Stuart Myers made Jan 30 at 2015 8:33 PM

2015-01-30T20:33:28-05:00

I came across a situation in a casino of all places. First question always is are you in the service? Do you have ID to prove it? Who is your 1st SGT? Then I make the correction in a calm, firm, manner. You either wear it right or not at all! Our enemy is looking for the weak lambs to take advantage of them.

Response by SPC Thomas Ramsay made Jan 30 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-01-30T21:24:55-05:00

There is one thing I have learned about lower enlisted soldiers in the Army of today... If they don't care, nothing you do short of an article or chapter will make them care. It doesn't matter how you explain it, how you handle yourself during your correction, what you say or where you say it. If they know they are jacked up and do not care, I guarantee you that their complacency is a far more powerful influence on their actions and reactions than anything you could do or say. I for one and happy that the dirtbags in the Army of today aren't scared to show they are dirtbags anymore. Because I'd rather a snake on my cutting board than a snake in the grass any day of the week.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-01-30T21:27:55-05:00

I'm going to tell you, I would have lost my mind! I am a stickler AR 670-1 and I make no exceptions or excuses. I wouldn't have made a scene, however when she rolled her eyes I would've pulled out my CAC so she could see just who she was rolling her eyes at. Maybe she thought he was just another SPC trying to check her. I've had to do that with a PVT and a SPC once. I chewed the SPC out for not correcting the PVT and letting him walk around in public with no headgear, hands in is pocket. Just all out of reg, and to top it off, the SPC was going along with the behavior, walking and texting on his cell phone. I was like I need to say something about this now! I cannot let this behavior go and I'm an NCO! We have to reel them back in and tighten them up. Yes, we have a "kinder, gentler Army" but the basic principles and personal discipline requirements remain the same. Integrity means doing what's right even when no one is looking! Hooaah!

Response by COL Tom Lewis made Jan 30 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-01-30T21:48:31-05:00

Identify yourself, make the correction, and stand with her until the corrective action is complete.

Response by SSgt Jay Dee made Jan 30 at 2015 10:06 PM

2015-01-30T22:06:14-05:00

This is why you shouldn't be allowed to wear fatigues in public in the first place. Also, it's absurd that she had the nerve to "roll her eyes". I just would have gotten her information and reported it to whoever is in charge of her. Chances are they wouldn't do anything anyway because if they held her accountable in the first place, she probably wouldn't have been all around garbage in the first place. Anyway, make the correction on the spot, get her information (ask for her ID), in not corrected, report to her command. I believe you have to hold people accountable, up and down, or else the institution will continue to get worse and worse.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 10:59 PM

2015-01-30T22:59:29-05:00

I ran into this situation this week on base. I have a waiver for no head gear due to stitches in my scalp. I was confronted by just about everyone on base, at one point I just heals up my waiver and didn't respond.

Response by CWO3 Steve Stillwell made Jan 30 at 2015 11:05 PM

2015-01-30T23:05:14-05:00

If you have to think about how to answer this question, turn in your uniform. PC does not apply and should not influence action in the military. In public or in private, you engage, correct, retrain, or direct the misinformed on how to present themselves in public. Social media is great. Take multiple pics from all sides on your phone before your encounter. If attitude ensues, turn the pics over to the local command. I have little time to deal with eye roles and hair flips. I have a movie to enjoy.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 11:06 PM

2015-01-30T23:06:48-05:00

Response by SFC Edward Sneed made Jan 30 at 2015 11:23 PM

2015-01-30T23:23:46-05:00

As an NCO, it is your responsibility to correct soldiers who are in violation of Military Regulations. Get her to the side, get her name, let her know what's going on, have her make the necessary corrections or inform her that she will be reported to her First Sergeant or Company Commander. You outrank her, so she has no attitude to acquire in this matter.

Response by MSgt Robert Carter made Jan 31 at 2015 12:12 AM

2015-01-31T00:12:34-05:00

Always!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 12:38 AM

2015-01-31T00:38:30-05:00

It is absolutely appropriate to make on-the-spot corrections in public, depending on how it is handled. Screaming in a soldier's face and smoking them out in a random store, not so much. Pulling them aside and telling them to fix themselves before you contact their chain of command, totally ok.

In fact, not doing so is tacitly condoning behavior that can tarnish the image of the military if the soldier is looking like a bag of smashed ass out in public.

Two caveats. One, you should talk to the person first to find out what is going on. For example, a person wearing sneakers with ACUs might be an idiot mixing his ACUs with civvies, or he might be on a no-boot profile. If someone was wearing their "field attire" and was just picking up some coffee for those guys, that might be more acceptable than someone wearing the same attire to go grocery shopping and hang out at the mall. A clothing item that you don't recognize might actually be unit issue gear or even something brand new to the Army system that hasn't filtered down to everyone yet (I remember a lot of headaches with the silkies and fleeces when REF first started handing them out).

Two, make sure you know the regs. This may seem obvious, but I have been "corrected" by people who didn't know what they were talking about and I was actually in the right.

Response by SFC Benjamin Varlese made Jan 31 at 2015 4:44 AM

2015-01-31T04:44:38-05:00

Little stuff like boots and belts I often overlook or laugh about, but there's some stuff like wearing tops or pants to Walmart or a popular night club (had a guy in full ACUs come to my door one night) that I lose my mind and get borderline Dexter about. You want to flaunt that you're in the military, there's about 50 sites tha will sell you a t-shirt that is not out of regs

Response by SGM William Bush JR made Jan 31 at 2015 10:29 AM

2015-01-31T10:29:21-05:00

I AM NOW RETIRED FROM THE ARMY. BUT IN MY TIME I WOULD HAVE COMPLETELY LOST MY MIND. I WOULD HAVE CORRECTED THAT SOLDIER ON THE SPOT AND I WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED UP ON HER WITH HER CHAIN OF COMMAND.

Response by PO3 Richard Paye made Jan 31 at 2015 10:53 AM

2015-01-31T10:53:03-05:00

And the reason why they keep doing it??????? Cause they know no one will do anything about it and they keep getting away with it, thats why. You should have put her in her spot right at that moment period. she excepted the rules when she signed up then she dam well can follow them.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 11:00 AM

2015-01-31T11:00:23-05:00

We are soldiers 24/7/365! On the spot corrections are appropriate anytime, everywhere in public. This is about respect to your fellow service members and the country we represent. The key to success is about ensuring that the corrections are done with respect to the individual being corrected, and using the utmost discretion and common sense.

Response by Cpl Matthew Gilbert made Jan 31 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-01-31T13:26:04-05:00

I am a former Marine as well as Army Reservist, I was Corporal in both branches and when i went from active duty Marine to the Army i noticed a slew of differences that i could not get over....Marines are taught at boot camp to take pride in everything we do, some take this as being arrogant or cocky but its who we are, we take pride in everything though including our uniforms and our heritage. The professionalism we are taught shows through no matter where we are or what we are wearing. The military uniforms are not for wear around to goof of with, they are military issued work clothes designed for specific purposes whether that be combat or professional dress attire. My opinion is the only branch currently still keeping that intact are the Marines....we are not allowed to wear uniforms outside of work unless it is specific dress uniforms as our combat uniforms are not designed to be worn for that. The dress uniforms are designed to give the best appearance on the outside and show professionalism. I personally feel that people such as SPC Ware should be looked at the same as acts of stolen valor because of the damage they do to the military's professional appearance. I still have some of my Cammies from both branches....and even now i will not put them on for anything unless i have a good shave and haircut and i have the proper tags of of them out of respect to the uniform and the branch. The military as a whole needs to get past the "softer" side.....we are not civilians and should not be relaxed like them. It sickens me to see anyone out not following their guidelines because to be honest even if you approach them and they refuse to give you their real command or just tell you to screw off there is really nothing you can do to make that happen. Uniforms should not be worn in public for this reason the acts of the few damage the reputation of the many and i personally get outraged when some "boot" takes away from my beloved branch....maybe thats why i felt i didnt quite fit for the Army but i feel that is the best mindset to have "Pride in everything we do".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-01-31T14:46:18-05:00

I would have identified myself as an NCO, pulled her to the side and told her to fix herself. If she's going to wear her uniform in public then it should be worn right. If she gave me an attitude then I would have asked where she was stationed, taken down her name and description and reported her to my chain of command back on base. Not sure how the process would get back to her chain of command but I wouldn't have let it go like that.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-01-31T14:55:39-05:00

I think you did well by not making a scene. I wouldve explain the professionalism that we are required to maintain at all times. Their is a reason we proudly wear the uniform and its not for attention. Just leaving her with that thought may have changed her mindset (maybe). We dont need people who dont care about our heritage or care to understand the "whole" picture. Good job though for saying something, most people wouldn't.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-01-31T15:26:40-05:00

In my opinion the order you ask matters the most I wouldve approach in a happy manner as if I was unaware and said:

Me:Hey are you in the army?
Them:yes
Me:O ok what unit are you in?
Them: whatever unit
Me:O ok are they near (name a place you know is wrong so they correct it)
Them: no its at (insert here)
Me: im sorry i forgot to get your name im (give only first name so they dont expect a rank) and you are?
Them: im (whoever the hell)
Me:so do i call you specialist (what ever name)?
AT THIS POINT I NOTIFY THEM THEY ARE OUT OF REGULATION BECAUSE THEY HAVE GVEN THE INFORMATION YOU NEED SUSPECTING THAT THEY WOLD BE CONFRONTED

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-01-31T17:51:15-05:00

Make the correction anyways. show her my mil id & get her name & unit, then call her readiness nco up & tell them the situation & request corrective action be taken.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jan 31 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-01-31T19:05:07-05:00

Make sure that you are right first. Being a dirtbag to a dirtbag is not appropriate behavior. Set the example for others to follow. Lead the way for corrective behavior in a positive manner. Help them on their journey.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 7:23 PM

2015-01-31T19:23:16-05:00

As a fellow troop, NCO or not, you exercised your general military autority. Whether or not that soldier did her part to respect that she was wrong is out of your control. Many SMs tend to believe that if you are not in their COC, that they don't have to listen to another, or that if they are off base or after hours, rules only minimally apply. You can only do your part. To be a great leader, you must first learn to follow. I can assure you that SPC Ware will be a SPC or below for many years to come. Good job removing yourself from a lose/lose situation.

****Although, pulling her to the side may have put her defenses at ease.

Response by CPT Erik Eriksen made Jan 31 at 2015 7:59 PM

2015-01-31T19:59:50-05:00

One of the first rules of leadership is never to give an order unless you are capable of and willing to enforce it.

There are many ways this could have been handled and each of us, as leaders, might handle it slightly differently. Being in the limelight of a public place might require a bit more tact than most of us feel was deserved. In the end, however, if you let something pass that should be addressed, then you should feel guilty of just setting a lower standard.

Personally, I would have pulled her aside and talked to her nicely. If she was disrespectful, I would have proven, regardless of the difficulties, that I never, ever, lose a battle of wills.

Response by SPC Arthur OHaver made Jan 31 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-01-31T22:19:33-05:00

That's fairly far out line, not like 1 boot came un-bloused... Doesn't mean she needs anything past sidelined and corrected, but this is pretty much asking for it....

Response by MSgt Michael Gaddis made Feb 1 at 2015 12:15 AM

2015-02-01T00:15:08-05:00

If she were truly a SPC...she shouldn't need to be corrected! She should have known...therefor a quiet, but firm counseling session on the spot. If she disobeyed a direct order from you...an NCO...I would have reminded her about a couple of UCMJ items called Article 91 & 92!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 1:13 AM

2015-02-01T01:13:03-05:00

Start by saying I'm Sgt _____\ I need a word with you for a second please show her you ID and say when you are in uniform you represent the entire US armed forces, the nations finest you must always represent your self in a military manor even if you think no one is watching. There are veterans all around you all the time that wore that uniform before you and they would never disrespect there uniform. 2) regulation aren't suggestions they are standards that must be adhired to. 3) when off duty she shouldn't have been wearing her uniform to a movie theater in the first place. 4) I would have asked for her unit and found out her 1sg emailed the photo of the soldier and described the attitude given also.
NCO Backbone!!! Enforce the standard!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-02-01T07:56:16-05:00

I think that's the problem with leaders today. First, you are a soldier 24/7, but never more so then when wearing your uniform in public. Especially state side. Any soldier should understand that, any it is your responsibility as a leader to ensure that happens. The simple discipline to wear a uniform properly when in public, as a representation of your unit and the military, is not a hard thing to accomplish, especially in this case. Second, correcting a soldier does not have to be an embarrassing ordeal for anyone. A simple you need to fix yourself will usually work. If it doesnt, the you ask for their 1SG. There are plenty of ways to get the job done, but doing nothing because you are afraid of a little confrontation is probably worse than her being out of uniform at the movies.

Response by SFC D Brown made Feb 1 at 2015 8:15 AM

2015-02-01T08:15:14-05:00

Can't correct stupid ! And when she rolled her eyes you knew you were in an uphill battle because she has never had a real NCO jump in her 4th point of contact!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-02-01T09:57:41-05:00

Old NCO of mine had a favorite saying. "If you fail to make an on the spot correction, you just created a new standard"

Response by CWO4 Rob Wallace made Feb 1 at 2015 10:12 AM

2015-02-01T10:12:28-05:00

Look, I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone on this entirely too long of a thread on how a nasty soldier does whatever she wants..... well here it goes. If a career service member has to take to the internet to seek advice on how to properly uphold military traditions then maybe that individual need not wear the uniform any longer. We as leaders can blame the X-Box generation all day long for the disrespect and do what I want attitude but we have been entrusted to take control of the situation and mold leaders of the future, regardless of the environment. It is obvious to me that this young SPC has had weak leadership and has been allowed to think that she can get away with it. So, maybe this thread should more about the lack of intestinal fortitude to handle a subordinate rather than the female soldier.

Response by SSG Paul Lanciault made Feb 1 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-02-01T10:59:01-05:00

We assume she is in the military because she is wearing part of a uniform and said she was. She may have been, and is now trying to scam some discounted movie tickets. She may be a problem at her unit if she is in the military. Demand an ID and unit, in a calm manner. If she is in the military its a problem her unit can deal with long term. She may not be able to fix this problem on the spot. If she is not in the military, she won't be scamming tickets today. If your going to intervene, be prepared to follow through. Otherwise just enjoy your night off that was your plan when you wanted to get away from the base.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 11:35 AM

2015-02-01T11:35:52-05:00

Right then and there I wouldn't make a scene but I would walk up behind her and talk like we have a normal convo

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 12:25 PM

2015-02-01T12:25:41-05:00

I think on the spot corrections would be great. I recently returned from war-x where I helped trained NG and reserves. While I was training them my SSGT and I tried to correct a Soldier that had their PC on inside a building and the soldier completely blew both of us off. We spent 3 weeks training them and by the 3rd day, we were ready to come back home.

Response by SFC Dominic Asberry made Feb 1 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-02-01T12:58:39-05:00

Should probably find out her name and rank and unit and correct her and inform her chain of command. Especially if she refused to correct the situation

Response by GySgt Bryan A. McGown "Gunny" made Feb 1 at 2015 2:05 PM

2015-02-01T14:05:14-05:00

Shame on you for not exercising your professional authority to enforce both the UCMJ, and your Army regulations. It is your OBLIGATION as an NCO to enforce order and discipline among your ranks. Would you have preferred an officer or any other competent military person to correct this individual? If you answered yes, please see your 1stSgt and request a voluntary demotion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-02-01T14:40:37-05:00

You definitely make the correction because she in violation of AR 670-1 and she is going to the movies in a duty uniform. The appropriate thing is to pull her aside let here know she is violation and if she get an attitude at least get her name and unit or here picture. The go through the chain of command to ensure she gets punished under UCMJ. This is the lack of military discipline that NCO's are being blamed for.

Response by Amn Erik Jacobsen made Feb 1 at 2015 3:31 PM

2015-02-01T15:31:22-05:00

I once saw an Army Sargent pumping gas in his BDUs without a hat a year or two after 9/11 and I asked were is cover was. He started to move in on me like I just had picked a fight. It just goes to show you that there are former military around all over the place.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-02-01T16:21:03-05:00

SSG Robinson,
I might disagree with how you handled the situation, but you knowing that you could have handled the situation different is why I love wearing the uniform. With that being said I have been in your situation before. The best situation I can recall came when I was an NCO. I made an on the spot correction while I was out of uniform and identified myself as an NCO and the Soldier rolled his eyes and laughed. I handed him my ID card and said I want you to make sure you understand who your talking to(all said in a calm voice and for anyone who knows me it was very difficult to do). Soldier was with some friends and not sure if they were Army or not and was trying to save face. I said if your so big and bad what is your name and let me see your ID card if you don't give it to me I am calling post staff duty and I will physically hold you in place and have you placed in confinement for dis obeying an order. (Soldier had no idea I was pulling all of that out of my A**)Soldier showed me the ID card and he was an E4. I went home typed him in AKO contacted the unit 1SG explained the situation and she asked me if I wouldn't mind coming by the unit. With all of that being said the Soldier was reprimanded for his actions. I tell you all of this to tell you to stay engaged! You may have to remove yourself from the situation but there are still other ways to make corrections even if they are not done on the spot. When that Soldier saw me monday afternoon next to his 1SG the look of panic was priceless. Get the name and follow up with the unit, use AKO use social media. I am not saying be an internet stalker, but find out who they belong too is not hard.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Feb 1 at 2015 8:15 PM

2015-02-01T20:15:34-05:00

Public orientation should be of reservation. Sometimes in our daily lives we get busy, letting our guard down, or forgetting who we really are in the public's eye. Each generation of SM's will have their own challenges.

I remember in the 70s, my neighborhood's public orientation toward SMs, vis-a-vis, was quite different than in other parts of the US. I grew up and was raised in the East Bay, Northern California. People did their own thing and wore what ever suits them, even SMs. Why? Long hair was in and one could spot a GI a mile away...Additionally, that demographic area was and will always be predominate working class, violent, and culturally diverse.

Fast forward to this situation...the person of interest may have a good reason why she is wearing and sporting this attire. If you are really interested, make your introduction face to face and use tact and respect, and if she is responsive...listen to her story...or watch her body language...she could be carrying a concealed weapon. Hands...watch the hands.

Remember, in public, you are in her space and she is protected by civil law if you get it wrong, you can be arrested for stalking, sexual harassment and possible charges of groping her can be added to the legal exchange. Law suits and litigations are very real and career changers. My advice, if you are not in a position of public authority, be cautious of your behavior. Not everyone in public will side with your actions in word and/or deed.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:01 PM

2015-02-01T21:01:09-05:00

I'd love to see any junior Marine roll their eyes at an NCO and live to tell about it. Public or not

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 11:30 PM

2015-02-01T23:30:16-05:00

I'm not convinced she's wrong. (Except for her word on the matter)

She's not on duty, therefore she's allowed faddish hairstyles.

She's wearing part (not all) of her pt uniform... Specifically the fleece cap is called out as authorized for civilian wear.

The only remote violation interpretation I can find is that her hair should not alter the wear of headgear, but again, it's being worn in civilian style.

Anyone care to actually discuss this?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 12:01 AM

2015-02-02T00:01:51-05:00

I would have stood there as she put her hair up and removed the cap. I for one don't like being out in uniform but on an off chance that in still in it and need to pick up something or meet with someone AR 670-1 applies because I'm in uniform duty or no duty. I would have asked her to kindly get unfucked and rethink her chose of attire outside of normal duty.

Response by Cpl J Jones made Feb 2 at 2015 12:51 AM

2015-02-02T00:51:20-05:00

All I can say is WOW. For the young SPC out of reg shame on yourself. You know better and should have enough pride in your uniform and branch of service not to disrespect it. To the NCO...... I can't believe you didn't have enough back bone to correct the violation on the spot. That is what is wrong with our new generation military men and women. You can't and won't hold eachother accountable for your/their actions. Reach down.... Grab ahold.... Let me hang.... And develope some intestinal fortitude.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 4:47 AM

2015-02-02T04:47:16-05:00

I may have a lower rank than anyone around but my personal and professional opinion is that if you are in uniform you must be in regulation. No matter where you are or when it is, you are in uniform. Have the decency to be in regulation. Also her having an attitude after just admiring she knew she was out of regulation? That just sounds like a lack of respect in her superiors and the uniform she is wearing.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-02-02T08:30:33-05:00

I was a SPC when i was in the army. Then and now if i see some one in uniform i talk to them if they are off post. specially if they are out of regs. I feel and have always been taught that it is your job as military to correct them now matter ware they are. Also no matter what rank you or they are.

Response by SPC Doug Waller made Feb 2 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-02-02T10:39:22-05:00

Former medic, out on medical discharge. But had hoped to re-enlist as Chaplain Asst.
It used to be we knew what we were fighting for, or at least the ideology. Many if not most today "volunteer" for the benefits. Which is not "bad", unless they refuse to let go of self when needed. Yet the reality is that 2 Timothy 3:3-5 is a reality can affect all, and does affect all, yet not all understand. An increasing "love" of self, has no real heart of cohesiveness, except for how self is profited. We've seen a decrease of hostility toward the uniform as lessons were learned since Nam. I'm not that old, but I too, remember when the Uniform was only to be worn, in full, by active duty or on special events. Time and place, I think there is a better understanding by civilians. But as it is tough to discipline our own children in public, getting too "hard" may not the best PR either. Get unit, etc., if possible pics, then let the Chain of command deal with the problem. Some folk are more amenable and a simple reminder will suffice. But this gal obviously is not one.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-02-02T12:33:48-05:00

Wow...just wow

Response by Cpl Bobby Casabianca made Feb 2 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-02-02T19:19:13-05:00

Absolutely make the correction just do it tactfully on the side

Response by MSgt Fred Duncan made Feb 2 at 2015 7:39 PM

2015-02-02T19:39:30-05:00

I'M going to go out on a limb here so please bear with me. Standards are clear and regs are meant to be obeyed all the time by all the people. Duty, loyalty, integrity, responsibility are all on the line all of the time. We should lean this when we take the oath. Some of the responses I read here are nothing short of bullying, have nothing to do with raising awareness, teaching discipline, or raising esprit de corps.
If you are a leader you are not god nor should you act like King Kong. You do not need to make the offender comply just teach them politely and compassionately.
Your goal is to get them to be willing members of the team. Nobody wants to be corrected and dressed down in public or embarrassed by some loud mouth pretender to the throne.
That person may well shape up and want to reenlist because you were kind and she knew that she was wrong.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-02-02T20:42:14-05:00

You should have gotten where she works so you could notify her command followed up with the photo

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-02-02T23:08:44-05:00

Regardless of rank if you see fellow service members out right ignoring regulation it is your responsibility to correct the infraction. I would have introduced myself as an NCO if I was met with such disrespect followed by asking the individual for their full name and unit and follow up with their supervision.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 11:19 PM

2015-02-02T23:19:28-05:00

Regardless of rank if you see someone out of regulation you should correct the infraction, that includes those individuals that outrank you (showing the respect their rank requires of course). In the event I encountered that kind of disrespect I would then introduce myself as an NCO and proceeded to get the individual full name and unit information and follow up with the individuals supervision.

Response by PO2 Chris P. made Feb 3 at 2015 3:34 AM

2015-02-03T03:34:57-05:00

I would at least do some checking around and report her. If you leave these things go it trickles up and down hill

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 5:47 AM

2015-02-03T05:47:04-05:00

the sad part is, the army is getting more and more like this every day. her chain of command is probably to soft or don't push the standards like they should. her being a SPC she should know already what the consequences of her doing this is. witch probably means her chain will do little to nothing about this if reported.... This thought sickens me and soldiers like this anger me greatly... I were my uniform with pride when out in public, because I represent something greater than myself... and soldiers like this makes all of us look bad...

Response by Cpl David Beck made Feb 3 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-02-03T09:33:59-05:00

I agree with you SSG Robinsons with your assessment. As a older Marine Veteran I see the younger generation lack of respect on all avenues but a lot of this comes from there parents and she never respected the uniform in first place before she became a soldier and reflection of the uniform. To me it does not matter what you wear you have to understand what you stand for Army, Marines, etc.. it does not matter which service but the character of the body that inside it.

Response by Sgt Donald Stone made Feb 3 at 2015 1:11 PM

2015-02-03T13:11:38-05:00

I have spent the better part of my morning reading the comments and opinions to this issue. I feel this soldier has a problem with self respect and therefore little respect for military tradition and authority. As retired trauma nurse, I've seen my share of "attitude", and I have to wonder about this person's circumstance prior to military life. When I became a Marine during the Viet Nam era, you enlisted or you were drafted. Today it is voluntary, however, some are service members due to judicial ultimatums. I once, and in some cases still do, believe this can change someone who is misguided or influenced by untoward circumstances, but not in all cases. For a few, this only compounds that person's attitude and the military becomes the cause of their frustration and anger. It therefore becomes the problem and challenge of those responsible for guidance and leadership to try and instill not only respect for tradition but respect for self as well. Perhaps this doesn't answer SSG (Verify To See)'s question, but this soldier might benefit from some psychological counseling. Who knows, she could become a model soldier!! Semper Fi

Response by PO3 Nathan Barr made Feb 3 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-02-03T14:23:01-05:00

I think it's important that we continue to instill a sense of pride and accomplishment to the junior members in the military. It is an honor to be able to wear that (or any) uniform in public, and it should be treated as such. I would have made a point to correct her in private, just as SMSgt Thomas suggests. I also, however, would have made a point to notify her chain of command so that they are aware of her lack of adherence to regulations as well as her insubordinate behavior.

Response by PO3 Jeff Lane made Feb 3 at 2015 2:26 PM

2015-02-03T14:26:02-05:00

Disrespect for the uniform is disrespect for everyone that serves or has served. Personally I would have tried to find her unit and send it up the chain of command. Im guessing she was just trying to get in for free.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-02-03T15:01:10-05:00

Call her out. This soldier is in a very public location, wearing the same uniform that I wear. You damn well better believe I'll call her out on the spot.

Response by SPC Nathanial Frecks made Feb 3 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-02-03T22:18:30-05:00

You should have just told her that she is the face of the military and as such, she needs to hold herself to the proper standards that go with wearing the military uniform.

Response by SSgt Laurie Sayles made Feb 3 at 2015 10:35 PM

2015-02-03T22:35:41-05:00

In the Corps it is a given ... you must address this behavior.

Response by SSG Bill M made Feb 4 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-02-04T00:08:45-05:00

As NCOs, it is our job to make on the spot corrections at all times, regardless of rank or location. I have corrected CSMs in garrison, soldiers standing in line at subway, and even national guardsman who work at Walmart. My wife never seems to understand why it pisses me off so much, but she has learned to deal with it. Continue the good fight. We are the backbone of the army and all it stands for.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 10:38 AM

2015-02-04T10:38:23-05:00

On the spot corrections! I believe that whenever we wear the Uniform we must conuct ourselves accordingly and our bearing should be maintained at all times. This person should have been informed of her AR violation and then asked who her commanding officer was. If she persisted in her bad attitude then I would have taken a pic of her, put it on Stolen Valor and eventually someone would have identified her. Once identified, then she could be handled for acting like a turd, instead of a soldier.

Response by MAJ Charles Mitchell made Feb 4 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-02-04T11:54:00-05:00

Yes - leadership is situational but is always there! An "On the Spot" correction was warranted!

Response by SFC Richard Gorroden made Feb 4 at 2015 1:42 PM

2015-02-04T13:42:36-05:00

You did the right thing for addressing the issue. As being and old school soldier, once she rolled her eyes I would have have told her something's in her ear. Explained to her and moved on.

Response by SPC John Fredenburg made Feb 4 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-02-04T15:57:21-05:00

if you feel that making the correction on the spot is problematic especially after the given attitude she displayed, use your photo. Go up and ask her for her "Alert roster" And her 1SG's or Commanders name. If she refuses she is violation of standing orders for all US Soldiers to submit that data when asked.(accept under POW circumstances) And then take the photo and send it to her CoC. I have had the issue of walking a soldier who was in violation of AR 670-1. to CSM at Ft Hood(3rd corp). You are honor bound to correct the infraction. If she dislikes it tough! She doesn't deserve to wear it.

Response by SFC Paul Schwindeller made Feb 8 at 2015 7:37 PM

2015-02-08T19:37:11-05:00

AS an NCO you have the duty to make on the spot corrections. I think I would have tried to get her in a more private situation find out what unit she was assigned to when first started to show attitude and then contact the unit First Seargent

Response by SGT William Howell made Feb 11 at 2015 11:24 AM

2015-02-11T11:24:55-05:00

I heard a funny story just like that. The CSM of the KY National Guard was in civilian clothes out with his wife eating at a fast food joint and a SPC rolled up with black boots and ACUs. (It was the transition time from BDUs to ACUs). The CSM walked up to her and told her that was not authorized to be worn together. She did the old eye rolling and she asked him who he was. He said it did not matter who he was he was just making a correction. She started getting loud he just walked away. The next day he had somebody track down this SPC and he made a visit to the command. The SPC got busted and the 1SG got a mouth full.

So the story goes as I heard it from Joe.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-02-11T11:43:37-05:00

That depends on how far you want to take it. Just remember that it is up to her chain of command to do anything about her behavior (any significant action to cause an impact to her career anyway).

Initial action should be saying something like "Thank you for your service." Then say something along the line "My so and so family member was serving in this branch of service..." Then ask the typical questions like what unit, what rank, and so on to know who she really is. By now, she shouldn't have any reason to provide any false information. Would you?

You can figure out the rest on what to do. You can ask her to show you her ID. But what if she isn't going to? Are you prepared to make a scene in a public place because of this? So on and so on.

Act accordingly.

Response by 1SG Todd Sullivan made Feb 18 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-02-18T16:08:52-05:00

Anytime is appropriate, of course the audience should be minimized if at all possible. Standards are standards, if people want to complain oh I am Mational Guard and don't get treated the same (just an example) then they should meet or exceed the standards just like the rest of the Soldiers, NCO's, and Officers do. Just saying.

Response by SPC Tom Maddox made Feb 18 at 2015 8:39 PM

2015-02-18T20:39:29-05:00

I would think that uniform regulations should be corrected especially when off base, unfortunately the days of old school correction are gone. It seems some of today's military personnel have such a low standard for themselves. They know there is only so much that will happen to them and are willing to disrespect themselves and the uniform. Corrections should always be attempted in my opinion by a higher ranking member

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2015 10:41 PM

2015-02-20T22:41:28-05:00

You have every right to correct. Being both lower enlisted and Army Guard, I know it's common knowledge that she shouldn't be jacked up (especially not in front of civilians) and shouldn't even be at the theater in uniform since she is not currently called for inactive duty military service.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2015 1:30 PM

2015-02-21T13:30:56-05:00

Let her know professionally in public, don't be an A-hole!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 3:12 PM

2015-03-01T15:12:23-05:00

All. Of. The. Time.

Regardless of status, if you are in Uniform, you represent the United States Army. There's no excuse for it. You want to play games at home and look a fool, fine. But in public, you're a visual ambassador to your Unit and the Army.

But what do I know, I'm just a Veteran.

Response by SGM Eric Lobsinger made Mar 14 at 2015 11:31 PM

2015-03-14T23:31:14-04:00

SSG Robinson, this is not a new problem. Unfortunately, it is an embarrassing issue when happening in a public venue such as this. The photo is shocking - also unfortunately. The bottom line is that you are obligated to make an on-the-spot correction. The recommended approach, of course, is to ask the soldier to step to the side and talk one-on-one so as to not unnecessarily embarrass her, yourself, or your Army. A recommendation would be to get her name and unit. At that point, you can address the issue at a later time by "looking the solider up" using today's technology. The cool thing about having a rank and a name on the green Army cold weather outerwear is that it provides a basic starting point for searches. Keep in mind that it is absolutely immaterial as to whether the Soldier is a Specialist, a Master Sergeant, a Major, or male or female, etc. The person is a Solder and deserves your attention.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 7:33 AM

2015-03-15T07:33:57-04:00

1. Use of tact is always a good idea.
2. Treat people with dignity and respect, despite their cognitive shortfalls.
3. Correcting shortfalls and deficiencies is an implied task for all leaders.
4. Refer to #1.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 6:39 AM

2015-03-20T06:39:43-04:00

Crazy! I would've told her she needed to fix her self. Tactfully that is... I would have noted her name and unit...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 7:48 AM

2015-03-20T07:48:25-04:00

So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation?

You make the on the spot correction. If the individual gives you attitude, is belligerent about fixing themselves, you use what information you can to find the persons unit, first line leader, 1SG, CSM, etc., and make them aware of the individuals actions. At this point in time, with technology being what it is, it shouldn't be too hard to get that information.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Mar 25 at 2015 10:03 PM

2015-03-25T22:03:10-04:00

SSG, you should not have removed yourself. She acknowledged that she was in violation of AR 670-1. She then violated Article 89 (been retired since 2006, not sure if that is the correct number) Disrespect to senior enlisted or Officer. In this case Enlisted. I would get her name and unit. If she failed to provide that information, make note of her unit patch (if wearing one) and her name on uniform.

I had a situation similar to this, but not at a movie theater.

Response by CPL Jesse Vasconcelos made Mar 25 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-03-25T22:15:03-04:00

I've always hated this. Doing it with professionalism and dignity any tme would be right. But to make (regardless of rank) your fellow service member feel like shit in front of everyone is just a d*ck move. It accomplishes nothing but have every notice your own faults of lack of being a respectful human.

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Mar 31 at 2015 3:50 PM

2015-03-31T15:50:25-04:00

I would ask them to have a word in private and take them aside out of earshot of anyone else. I did this on four different occasions without a problem. I admit though that being a Special Forces officer probably had something to do with their immediate compliance.

Response by SGT Corey Franks made Apr 1 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-04-01T14:43:23-04:00

As soon as you see it is when its appropriate. Don't let SMs lose their bearing, someone has to square them away

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 6:36 PM

2015-04-05T18:36:31-04:00

Just a reminder: "No one is more professional than I, I am a Noncommissioned Officer a leader of soldiers"

You lead troops in combat, you goddamn do what is right, where ever it may be happening. Take them aside, identify yourself, have her identify herself, take names and tell her you are going to follow up to their chain of command, and square her away.

Response by CPT Bob Moore made Apr 7 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-04-07T14:29:02-04:00

I agree with several posts on here. I usually start with the question of "Are you in the service? Really, what unit?" That gets the uncomfortable part of finding out who to report to (if needed) out of the way before any confrontation starts. After that, I identify myself as another service member and make the on the spot correction. I was an NCO for quite a while, then got a commission. I've done the same thing either way.

I also use the tactic that they represent the military to all of the civilians in the area and that usually helps them understand why they need to make corrections. I avoid the "ugly" confrontation in public. If they have been honest about their unit, and they usually are, I can let their chain of command deal with that if necessary.

On the flip side, I have also stopped service members that are clearly acting appropriately and doing things that reflect positively on the military to give a little positive feedback as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-04-07T14:42:52-04:00

I had a very similar situation this past week in a mall in Phoenix. Man wearing ACUs with the wind breaker (the one without patches on the arms), IR tab was hanging out, sun glasses hanging from the front of the uniform and completely unshaven. I asked him about his service, he was wearing SSG rank and caught attitude with me when I called him out for being out of regs. When violent threats were made I walked away. There is no need for someone getting hurt, however, it angered me so badly that I couldn't just shake it. I do wish there was more that could be done to correct these issues.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 12:48 PM

2015-04-12T12:48:40-04:00

Of course pull her to the side and ask why is she wearing the uniform like that. She might be stolen valor??? Laugh out Loud

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 2:26 PM

2015-04-29T14:26:49-04:00

This was recent?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-04-29T14:35:36-04:00

On the spot corrections are always appropriate and that is our responsibility to make them as leaders. What is not appropriate is making a scene when doing them or degrading or belittling them in the process. If given attitude it is not necessary to get in a dispute especially if not on a military installation. What I have done though is written down the Soldiers name and taken a picture of there unit patch and contacted the unit and make them aware of the issue. Walking away is okay when the environment does not support the confrontation but what is not ok is for getting about it and not trying to follow up on it. I applaud you for making this correction and remember we cannot fix everything but we must continue to try.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 2:38 PM

2015-04-29T14:38:20-04:00

Where was this?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-04-29T19:48:56-04:00

@SSG Dontre' Robinson
Although some on RP may only see me as a PFC, it is your duty as a soldier and an NCO to set the example for others to follow. Remember, no one is more professional than I. Now I do not mean that you should hound on another soldier in front of everyone but simply bring the soldier to the side and correct them from there. Just the other day I corrected a E-5 at the mall for having his hands in his pockets and playing on his phone while walking in uniform. This being said it was much later in the night and I belive the NCO should have changed going to the mall. But I confronted the NCO with respect and insisted that he correct himself for he must set the example for other soldiers and civilians nearby. Although I wasn't given an attitude, he corrected himself and nodded his head. Professionalism is important and although some civilians may not know what right looks like in the military world, that does not mean that it is okay to be unprofessional while other soldiers aren't around. I applaud you for keeping a level head SSG but walking away from that SPC was a no go.

Response by SPC Suzanne Hernandez made May 15 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-05-15T21:24:46-04:00

On the spot corrections in public, when is it appropriate? Always.
(I was only a SPC, out now 3 years, but the asnwer is still the same:always!)
As a PFC, I once told a LTC her name tape was on upside down, she thanked me.

Response by SPC Charles Slininger made May 19 at 2015 11:21 AM

2015-05-19T11:21:21-04:00

I have a case that I would like some clarification & opinions on. I just went to the local gas station and when I went to the register the cashier was in ACU's. The rank the individual was wearing was PFC however there were no visible unit patches. I was very much tempted to lay into the private as to why he would wear a military uniform while he was working a separate job, however I restrained myself as I'm not sure if it was a military service week for the company or not also since I have been retired from service for 6 years. Regardless, I was left rather irritated that a soldier is wearing ACU's while working a different job.

So my questions are:

1. Am I right to be irritated and should I have corrected the soldier on the spot?
2. Should on the spot corrections be addressed from former military to current enlisted soldiers?

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 21 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-05-21T14:58:23-04:00

Yes, you IMHO opinion of had her cough up her CAC card and identified herself. If she wanted to play dumb - cellphone pic and AKO. Theres two kinds of military authority - command relationship and general. Even out on the town, USAR/NG/AD you got it. Glad you said SOMETHING to her. What a slug.

Response by Capt Vickie Adams made May 21 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-05-21T15:00:37-04:00

When I was on active duty we were taught that it is your responsibility to correct someone. And think about this, if another service member was watching you NOT make corrections YOU could be the one in trouble. When I was first commissioned I hated making public corrections until someone told me that.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-05-21T15:15:16-04:00

Wow. That's pretty bold of that SPC. I think that corrections are necessary no matter the siutation, but the way in which we approach them should be particular to that situation. Just me being me, I would have shown her my ID card (if I were in civilian) clothes) and have her fix herself ASAP. If she refused to comply, I would have been at personnel so quick the next day it would make her unauthorized ponytail spin. You did the right thing by not making a scene, but if she would have known you were a NCO she may have corrected herself.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-05-21T17:12:08-04:00

You have name, rank and a location. All that's need more is a quick search for the local unit and a call to her 1st Sgt. I would.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-05-21T17:12:15-04:00

You have name, rank and location. From there it's a matter of a quick search for the local unit and the 1st Sgt. I would.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-05-21T17:19:08-04:00

IF you took the time to confront her, why not explain the importance of her being in the proper uniform in public?

I mean, you took the time and you backed down. That will make her more bold and she will continue her behavior.

Response by SPC Cory Vankirk made May 21 at 2015 5:43 PM

2015-05-21T17:43:57-04:00

You should have corrected her there making a scene and then there is being polite but at the same time upholding the standard

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 21 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-05-21T18:40:29-04:00

You did the right thing, likely the boyfriend would have assaulted you or worse, wait for you outside and shoot you .

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 6:42 PM

2015-05-27T18:42:43-04:00

Introduce yourself and then pull her aside for the correction. If you still got the same response from her I would contact her CoC with the photo and her disrespectful attitude. If NCOs don't correct this behavior then one day this SPC will be a SSG and how do you think her standards will make the military a better place. If this was after 1900 (I think) then she should not have even been in ACUs. I hope you contacted her unit; just viewing that photo makes me want to take the photo and get in touch with her unit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-06-01T11:42:31-04:00

Absolutely NOT acceptable. ALL sevicemembers are not only taught, but are expected to UPHOLD ALL regulations regarding the uniform at all times when clothed in the same. AS an NCO, should you have made her fix herself? Definitely. Show her your CAC card, and state your name and rank. If she refuses to correct her infaction on the spot accordingly, she is violating a directive from a noncommissioned officer. At that point, you get name, rank and unit, track her little butt down, and report her blantant disregard for regulation, and disrespect to a noncommissioned officer to her Chain of Command. is it harsh? Maybe, but is it also your responsibility, as a leader of troops? Certainly. and given that she rolled her eyes at you, some on the spot corrective training probably wouldnt hurt. Sometimes you have to be an asshole to make a good leader.

Sorry for the language. That type of thing gets me pretty heated.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 12 at 2015 7:54 AM

2015-06-12T07:54:59-04:00

Example: One time when I was a young E4 I was walking through O'Hare on my way home for leave in civilian clothes. I saw a young Sailor in Dress Blues, rank E-2, sporting 3 or 4 ribbons. At the time the National Defense Service medal was being awarded for Desert Storm era service (same reason I was awarded my first NDSM). Knowing that Great Lakes Recruit Training Center was close by, I asked the Sailor how long he had been in. "I just graduated Boot Camp Sir..." was his answer. I then politely showed him my ID card and introduced myself as Petty Officer Miller and kindly explained to him that he should remove the unauthorized ribbons post haste and even suggested that he go into the men's restroom we happened to be standing next to.

He in turn replied "Yes Petty Officer" and fixed himself.

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Jun 12 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-06-12T13:08:05-04:00

On the spot correction is warranted anytime anywhere. That young Specialist knows that she is to maintain proper military bearing and professionalism at all times, especially while representing the United States Military in a public place.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jun 22 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-06-22T15:24:52-04:00

I was not going to make a comment about this thread, but after reading a fairly significant amount of the comments on this subject here, I could stand it no longer.

Is there anyone that has made a comment related to the military members not knowing the proper dress, believe that an individual in the pay grade of E-4 does not know the proper appearance for their branch of service?

For those of you that are in the Top Three group, no matter what your service or current affiliation, do you not teach or learn in the respective NCO courses about General Military Authority?

Even disregarding Stolen Valor laws, wearing of a US military uniform IS against the law; just because it is not enforced or enforced improperly still does not mean that it is not against the law. I would suggest that you read 10 USC 771 and 772 and the respective regulations in regards to your branch of service.

And for those of you that have made the young SSG (E-6) appear to have conducted himself in an unbecoming manner, I would suggest that you reread the original statement or read it if you have not already done so. I believe that the young SSG deported himself quite well and extracted himself from a situation in a professional manner, when he did not know what to do. He then presented his conundrum to his peers and colleagues in this forum, and a number of you have stated that he could have done a better job; this was not a failure on his part, it was a failure of the leadership that this young soldier has had over the years that he has been in the service. For those of you that know the proper way of handling this situation, have you taught or are you actively teaching your subordinates Leadership in regards to situations like this, if not, you need to take a step back and reevaluate your statements.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 3:50 PM

2015-06-22T15:50:25-04:00

In the context of your situation, i would attempt to talk to the person in private (ie using a soft voice so only the person could hear). If the person became belligerent, then he/she would turn it into something public.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-06-22T15:57:06-04:00

As a SNCO, it is part of our duties to point out uniform violations. Sometimes, it is an honest mistake - you are in a hurry and forget or don't notice that something didn't get put back in the right place after a trip to the cleaners. Once, I had to tell a General that he had strings hanging from his uniform. You have to point out the error in a respectful way - as the way you would want someone to do for you.

In this case, you knew she wasn't going to take the advise as a good thing - rolling your eyes at a senior ranking member of any service - I would have ask what unit she was assigned to and the name of her supervisor and commander. Then I would have reported it to the unit for action. However, if anyone is told that there is something wrong with my uniform, I would thank them for pointing it out and quickly correct it. That is Pride in Service - that just being there for the benifits.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 4:02 PM

2015-06-22T16:02:22-04:00

One thing I was thinking about was when lower enlisted run into officers and NCO's that are clearly jacked up. There has been a few times where I've tried to correct and I end up getting chewed out. I didn't even make a scene about it I just subtly asked them to make the correction.

Response by SSgt Scott Schwerman made Jun 24 at 2015 10:51 PM

2015-06-24T22:51:33-04:00

I personally would have gone all the way. Us as service members should hold ourselves to that higher standard, especially since our country looks at/to us in a much higher aspect. So if a civilian (vet or not) just happens to know even a remote idea about military regulations about appearance, uniform, etc. and sees someone blatantly disregarding those regulations may have a negative impact on the way that person now thinks of how our military is handled or what not. I might be taking it way to far, but as a Marine, we are expected to hold one another to that high standard.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 2 at 2015 12:53 AM

2015-08-02T00:53:27-04:00

When they are so ate up you can't let it slide and when they are embarrassing the military.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-08-02T13:28:51-04:00

Best bet would be to pull her to the side and make her fix herself we are soldiers 24/7 and if you think the public is not watching you are wrong this is one of my pet peeves one soldier can make us all look bad. If she refuses and gets attitude find out what unit she is with and report her to her chain of command and hopefully they will fix her.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 8:07 PM

2015-08-08T20:07:39-04:00

Personally, I think the regulation should be updated to state that you are not allowed to wear your uniform in public unless on military duty. The marines have done it for years and never had a problem with it.

Response by Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 12:37 PM

2015-08-27T12:37:56-04:00

What is the general opinion on soldiers/ex-soldiers who wear their PT shorts/Shirt out and about. Should ALL regulation corrections be made on the spot or is it more lax when it comes to wearing part of the PT uniform while out and about?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 1:05 PM

2015-08-27T13:05:46-04:00

She looks like she was cold. If she worked for me then I would have told her to put on a hat and a jacket - whether it matched the uniform or not.
Soldiers are people too.

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Aug 27 at 2015 8:16 PM

2015-08-27T20:16:55-04:00

She was wrong and she knew it. You did the right thing. I would have approached her and asked to talk privately. I would have let her know she was wrong. I would have gotten her Unit, NCO, 1SG, and commander. I would contact her CoC especially if she got an attitude. No yelling or silly stuff at the movie theater. Good way to get arrested. I have seen it happen.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 27 at 2015 9:14 PM

2015-08-27T21:14:19-04:00

If me i'll write down her name and unit, if she being nice and understand her mistake i'll let it go if she have an attitude, i'll go head and write her info and talk to her unit chain of command.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 6:03 PM

2015-08-28T18:03:39-04:00

it doesnt matter what situation it is unless there is a more pressing matter at hand, but people in the millitary should know better.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-09-03T19:51:14-04:00

Yea that person (I would say Soldier but based on appearance I am not sure) and get a stern on the spot correction. One of the tings I have passed down to my NCOs to tell their enlisted is that everyday something will be wrong with my uniform; only the enlisted are allowed to correct it. They are finally getting into the habit of saying something like CSM your tab is upside down or whatever the correction is. My goal is for them to have the confidence to walk up and professionally make an on the spot correction to anyone regardless of rank. If we can't instill the discipline and confidence into our Soldiers for something minor like that what will happen when they see something that is really important and wrong.

Response by SGT(P) Crystal Marie France made Sep 5 at 2015 8:41 PM

2015-09-05T20:41:02-04:00

Gettum SGT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am usually professional but I would have lit her up!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2015 10:53 PM

2015-09-05T22:53:45-04:00

As an NCO you have the responsibility to make an on the spot correction ANY time you see one. These soldiers represent the greatest Army on earth, so they need to represent it accordingly. These soldiers can roll their eyes or say whatever but they must adhere to regulations. Hooah!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 4:39 PM

2015-09-22T16:39:54-04:00

SSG Dontre' Robinson,
I understand your dilemma, but I will tell you that I have done exactly that. I normally show the Soldier my CAC and then ask them to join me at a location not in front of everyone else and explain to him/or her that they are out of uniform and need to correct themselves before rejoining the crowd/event. Depending on their demeanor determines if I engage them further or walk away after.
Note: if what they are doing is not within good order and discipline is one thing, but if they are doing something that falls within lane of hurting others or themselves, then I react more forcefully. Such as when someone is talking on a cell phone (not hands free and driving). My SGM when I was deployed last always said when he would reference me that I enforced the standard whether you were a Colonel or a Private and that goes for in the mall or on post (just remember to use tact).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-11-27T16:54:30-05:00

Yeah do it but do it professionally! Not to humiliate!

Response by SGT Dan Lawrence made Dec 1 at 2015 9:46 AM

2015-12-01T09:46:00-05:00

If it was me in the situation I would of showed her my CAC card and told her to fox herself. I.E. remove the pt cap and fix her hair and if she responded with attitude. I would of gotten her name rank company commanders name, or first sgt.'s name and reported it.

Response by SPC Stephen Riddle made Dec 13 at 2015 11:22 PM

2015-12-13T23:22:47-05:00

I have been medically retired for about 7 years now and sometimes I just want to wear my uniform. However I won't wear my uniform unless I have shaved and have an appropriate hair cut. And I only wear it around the house on those days. With that said I think it would have been worth any possible scene caused (if a scene could not be avoided) to correct the issue and if she refused to bring it up to her NCO's. I respect everyone who has served and is currently serving and I won't disrespect the uniform that I wore proudly while I was serving by violating the regs. I may be going a bit overboard but wearing the uniform incorrectly (intentional or not) doesn't help the professional image that a soldier should be displaying.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2016 3:54 PM

2016-04-17T15:54:04-04:00

I answered this question a while ago but now that I'm stationed at Lackland I see the just graduated BMT airmen, often doing things they know they shouldn't. It's given me an interesting perspective. I fully believe now as I did then that corrections need to be made. From talking with a lot of the new airmen I gathered two things. They weren't thinking and they didn't realize their appearance reflected on the military.

Most of the time their scare sh*tless I'll contact their MTI.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 2:49 PM

2016-04-21T14:49:24-04:00

Why did you completely remove yourself from the situation correct her on the spot if not tell that SPC to take off the uniform or correct herself and I would do it in public with my "Knife" hand!!!!'

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made May 1 at 2017 6:00 PM

2017-05-01T18:00:12-04:00

Praise in public, criticize or counsel in private! Nothing more embarrassing than to be called out for a uniform infraction. Not saying on the spot corrections aren't a valuable tool

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Jul 19 at 2017 9:23 AM

2017-07-19T09:23:03-04:00

The few times I did, my intro was, "Better you hear it from me (your chaplain) than your 1SG."

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2017 11:33 AM

2017-07-23T11:33:45-04:00

I personally can't understand it. I for one can't wait to get out of uniform when the day is over. I'm honored to wear it but wearing it longer than I have to is not something I'm about. Being in uniform in public is just screaming "thank me for my service" and wearing it incorrectly is just...stupid.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Jul 23 at 2017 11:40 AM

2017-07-23T11:40:06-04:00

A CW3 and I were on our way to Milwaukee to meet up with the civilian contingency of our task force to "escort" them to Iraq. The chief and I flew out of Augusta to Atlanta and we were both in uniform. While in Atlanta, we observed a young NCO in ACUs wearing his Stetson in the air terminal. I went up to him and asked him if he was on leave from Iraq and heading home. He told me he was and I welcomed him home. I then reminded him he was indoors and should not be wearing headgear and the Stetson was not authorized for wear with the uniform unless at a unit function where it is permitted by the commander. I told him I understood his pride in being in Cav, but as an NCO he must also follow regulations. He thanked me and apologized and removed his Stetson. $20 says that once he arrived at his destination, he put it back on his head.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 23 at 2017 11:43 AM

2017-07-23T11:43:42-04:00

This is why we weren't allowed off base in anything less tha C dress, no utilities allowed thru the gates. Off post guys had to change. Back in the day of course no idea what the Usmc regs are now,

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Jul 23 at 2017 12:25 PM

2017-07-23T12:25:14-04:00

On the spot corrective action is definitely required. Just be polite and calm. If they get nasty get unit information and simply contact their unit.

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Jul 23 at 2017 1:10 PM

2017-07-23T13:10:35-04:00

As a former NCO, I have made many on the spot corrections. I do not resort to loud voices. Did you show her your CAC card? If needed, I would have removed her from her location out of earshot, but had my significant other videoing everything from initial approach to conclusion. I would have notified her CoC and her NCO Chain. If it had gotten heated, I probably would have disengaged myself also. It is hard to say since I wasn't there. It is pretty sad that soldiers do this. You don't see Marines doing this BS.

Response by MSgt Terry Mahan made Jul 23 at 2017 1:48 PM

2017-07-23T13:48:44-04:00

I would have called her to side, idemtified myself and gotten her name and unit. I would have had her squate herself away. If she did comply nother further would occure. If she developed an ttitude I woulf have informed her a report would be submitted to her unit. Young enlizted do dumb thing,that is normal and expected. How the respond when caught is another issue. I did stupid stuff to, when brought to my attention, I fixed it and learned from it.
MSgt USAF Retired

Response by MAJ Deanna Sinclair-Parker made Jul 23 at 2017 2:49 PM

2017-07-23T14:49:04-04:00

As a field grade officer, I can not just walk away, even retired. I would ask them to come aside with me. To speak with them about their appearance , etc.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Jul 23 at 2017 3:14 PM

2017-07-23T15:14:14-04:00

What you should have done was ask her to step off to one side, away from her companion, before correcting her. That way you didn't embarrass her in front of them.

Response by SGT Sunny Lalingua made Jul 23 at 2017 4:06 PM

2017-07-23T16:06:57-04:00

stop her, ID her, ID yourself, explain the reason for your interruption of her day, Request name of Company, 1SG, CO. Inform troop you will contact said command regarding your concern and suggest troop initiates corrective action immediately. Follow Through. Depending on how you handle the situation, i.e., professionally, she should be thanking you and promising to get an appointment to the eye doctor for that problem she seems to be having. ALWAYS STOP AND CORRECT BUT BE PROFESSIONAL.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2017 4:12 PM

2017-07-23T16:12:00-04:00

Always appropriate

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jul 23 at 2017 4:35 PM

2017-07-23T16:35:33-04:00

I'm not sure about the whole specialist ranking system, but you're a Staff Sergeant E6? I can't think of one Staff Sergeant of Marines that would have let that go. Not one that I ever served with. Not one.

Response by Sgt Wayne Ariss made Jul 23 at 2017 7:58 PM

2017-07-23T19:58:16-04:00

I always remember an impromptu inspection our squadron CMSgt hit us with when I was overseas. He went through the ranks, noted our discrepancies, explained what needed to be done to rectify them, and then he walked to the front of the formation, faced us, and said something I have never forgotten. He tolerantly reminded us of our obligation to adhere to AFR 35-10 (the Air Force uniform dress code), and then he said, "Gentlemen, if you're going to wear that uniform, then wear it *RIGHT*. There are a hell of a lot of damned fine people who have *DIED* so you *COULD* wear that uniform." I don't know how that comment affected any of the other guys, but it hit me like a ton of bricks. I never forgot that comment, and even though I hadn't been found in any uniform discrepancy that day, I made sure for the remainder of my time in the AF that my uniform was always where it was supposed to be. I got an APR at one point stating that "my adherence to 35-10 was noteworthy, and set an example well above many of my peers". :) I don't know how good an example I was, but I do thank you for what you said during that inspection, Chief.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Jul 23 at 2017 8:34 PM

2017-07-23T20:34:57-04:00

In my experience, I have always known female soldiers giving “attitude” to male soldiers all the time. So, I won’t be accused of Sexual Harassment, I’ve always gotten a female soldier, usually an NCO to correct the problem. For whatever reason, I’ve always had a difficult time supervising female soldiers. Being in a public situation, SHE knew she could get away with it. You were smart to get away from that situation.

Response by Lt Col Paul Maxwell made Jul 23 at 2017 8:44 PM

2017-07-23T20:44:14-04:00

Given that you were out for an evening yourself, I think you handled an annoying situation
Quite adequately. She was out of Reg, and although she probably thought 'no big deal, no one will notice' you proved to her that indeed it matters and people DO notice. You then elected not to make a huge scene out of it, and that is acceptable, IMHO.
In the bigger picture, she will either learn from this and clean up her act, or no doubt continue to be marginal performer, with repeated stupid moves and eventually system will purge her to CIV status.

Response by SGT The Tech Guru made Jul 23 at 2017 10:17 PM

2017-07-23T22:17:41-04:00

I have quite the opposite issue here, the lower enlisted is wearing their shit right... the upper levels on the other hand could care less as a retiree... I find myself wanting to smash the big yellow birds.

Response by 1LT Tom Wilson made Jul 24 at 2017 8:22 AM

2017-07-24T08:22:06-04:00

I am under the impression that you were not in uniform, yourself, so you had to break cover, so to speak, to counsel this person in a stand-down status. You brought the problem to the attention of the person. If it was a more flagrant violation of military regulations than just adjusting a gig line, so to speak, then asserting your authority is essential.

I think you did it about right.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jul 24 at 2017 8:46 AM

2017-07-24T08:46:52-04:00

Good move Staff Sergeant, You didn't to get into with her while she was with her male counterparts, why get your ass handed to yourself trying to be hero in front of your wife over something dumb bro. What goes around comes around I say.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Jul 24 at 2017 10:44 AM

2017-07-24T10:44:31-04:00

Once she confirmed she was a soldier, ask her unit, and then you could have simply, and quietly mentioned she is obligated to follow regulations, 24/7, in/out of uniform, on/off post. If she refused to acknowledge and correct, copped an attitude, or made a public spectacle of herself, then you could've taken her name, rank and unit and reported her to her chain of command. Sometimes you have to make an example, you don't have to get animated or overly excited to make corrections.

Response by SPC John Chambers made Jul 27 at 2017 6:50 PM

2017-07-27T18:50:19-04:00

I was in a similar situation when I found an Air Force E1 wandering around the mall with his cover on. Normally I would have said whatever and moved on but this kid was a good 300 feet from any exit. I calmly confronted him about it because I didn't want one of the Air Force Recruiters catching him. Anyway he started getting pissed at me ( I wasn't in uniform) and a WW2 veteran came to the Aide of the young Airman. When he found out I was in the Army the WW2 vet saluted me and told me to get back to chewing the Airman's ass. It was a unique experience for all of us I think.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2017 4:20 PM

2017-11-14T16:20:34-05:00

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. I agree the SM should have been tactfully corrected- however- I can fully understand the reluctance to do so. I can only speak for the army, but Soldiers are very aware of resources available to them, and some Soldiers have no qualms about abusing those resources to push back against authority. We have discussed this topic in LPDs, and a surprising number of leaders hesitate making corrections for fear of an IG, EO, or SHARP compliant.

I have personally had complaints filed against me for enforcing the standards, and have seen it happen to others. It is not a pleasant process to experience, but I can rest easy knowing I did the right thing. My concern is that too many people see leaders getting raked over the coals for upholding those standards and begin to wonder if it is worth the hassle to make those corrections.

Bottom line: as service members and leaders we need to chose the hard right over the easy wrong, that's why we are professionals. We also need to ensure we are absolutely in the right and correct when we make those corrections and enforce the standards. Enforce the standard and be prepared to back it up.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 25 at 2018 8:12 PM

2018-01-25T20:12:55-05:00

A good NCO- anytime something is wrong, in a polite- well mannered way.

Response by CW2 Jo Alistair made Jan 26 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-01-26T21:59:49-05:00

The battle was lost as soon as you told her it was ok for her to knowingly act in violation of Army Regulations. If you are going to bring up the topic you must follow it to conclusion of her either conforming to regulations or having her face corrective encouragement.

Response by SGT Walter Lester made Jun 28 at 2018 12:24 PM

2018-06-28T12:24:25-04:00

SSG Robinson, You should have called her aside and corrected her on the spot. It's lessons learned that makes the soldier strong, if she knows that she can get by with doing what she wants in public in uniform she will do it again. Maybe in combat too. Your mistake.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2018 1:18 PM

2018-06-28T13:18:36-04:00

I wonder if we’ve gotten a valid opinion yet on this post from 3 years ago! Cmon RallyPoint!!!

Response by CPT David Geasland made Jun 28 at 2018 1:38 PM

2018-06-28T13:38:39-04:00

Flint: "He was wearing a battle of the Bulge ribbon."
Cramden: "There is no Battle of the Bulge ribbon!"
Flint: "Precisely, this man is an imposter!"

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jul 26 at 2018 9:54 AM

2018-07-26T09:54:01-04:00

She knew better.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jul 26 at 2018 9:54 AM

2018-07-26T09:54:46-04:00

She was just pushing the limits.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2019 12:22 AM

2019-07-28T00:22:16-04:00

You were correct to make an on spot correction however today’s soldiers unfortunately have a totally different attitude as opposed to when I was a private so it’s difficult to implement regulations

Response by SFC William Ewing made Jul 28 at 2019 8:19 AM

2019-07-28T08:19:04-04:00

Back in the eighties,
One of our NCOs out of Ft Harrison made a on the spot correction in Covington Ky
The local police cited the NCO for harassing the person. Charges were dropped by station chief.
Anti Vietnam, soldier were still in the air.

Police report said the person being corrected looked in fear for his life.

Response by SSG Paul Wilson made Jul 28 at 2019 1:30 PM

2019-07-28T13:30:06-04:00

As a retired vet and a NCO you as to speak her in private. You then ID yourself full name and rank. You explain the violation the as for her full name, rank and unit she is assigned to. You then report it to your chain of command.

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made Jul 28 at 2019 1:34 PM

2019-07-28T13:34:09-04:00

As an NCO it is your duty and responsibility to correct all soldiers that are in violation of any and all Army regulations. You should have shown her your ID card pulled her to the side and made your on the spot correction. Because you did not do that you are in violation nd derelict of duty and conduct unbecoming. You can not blame young soldiers for violating anything if you yourself are and lact the tact and sense of duty. You are soldiers act like it.

Response by CSM George Gattone made Jul 28 at 2019 2:54 PM

2019-07-28T14:54:52-04:00

Hell I’ve been retired 5 years and I would’ve corrected that young SPC!

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Jul 28 at 2019 3:36 PM

2019-07-28T15:36:02-04:00

Illiterate asshole.

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Jul 28 at 2019 4:46 PM

2019-07-28T16:46:56-04:00

Try to correct if that doesn’t work ask for her unit information and military id as an NCO she cannot refuse notify her command with a pic of her she is in public and that is a blatant violation of reg the second she admitted she knew all niceties should have been shelved

Response by SGT Mike Mann made Jul 28 at 2019 5:23 PM

2019-07-28T17:23:45-04:00

I was in the regular army from 1986-1990. I was kicked out for alcohol rehab failure. I quit drinking in 1996 and in 2005 they raised the age limit to get in so I went to see a recruiter went through the meps but they said there wasn’t anything they could do because of the RE3 on my 214 and told me to try the national guard and I got in and deployed to Iraq within 6 months. I mentioned Army Regulations to my 1SG and he told me “Army Regulations are just a guide!”

Response by SSG Lon Watson made Jul 28 at 2019 7:24 PM

2019-07-28T19:24:58-04:00

In a situation like this I would be concerned you might get jumped by her “civilian male acquaintance” especially if she’s home on leave in her old neighborhood. Better to play it safe.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Jul 28 at 2019 7:38 PM

2019-07-28T19:38:02-04:00

I have a hard time understanding this mainly because off duty I couldn’t get into my civies fast enough! By my second year I still had one pair of my old basic issue boots that I wore if I was going to work on my car or explore an outdoor park, and that’s as far as I went with pieces of uniform in public except for the few times during lunch or immediately after formation I had to pick something up off post, in that case it was full uniform and I either went back to work or back to the barracks and changed after that errand. I wore parts of my BDU uniform minus rank insignia after I discharged while doing chores around home

Response by CPL Shayne Sanchez made Jul 28 at 2019 8:08 PM

2019-07-28T20:08:31-04:00

I now work for a nation wide travel center. I was a 88M and still drive today. Every now and again a Reserve or Guard unit will come thru to fuel their vehicles on their way to or out of NTC Ft. Irwin. I have been out for many years and was a NCO. I will still correct these troops as they mull around the travel center grabbing pogie bait. I don't go out of my way or single anyone out. Some of these folks are walking around looking like a duffle bags.

Response by SSG David Stafne made Jul 28 at 2019 9:23 PM

2019-07-28T21:23:46-04:00

You don’t check your Standards at the Front Gate; as an NCO you are Duty Bound to enforce the Standards both on and off Post. Now, how you enforce those Standards Off Post depends on how that Soldier responds. Being Off Post I would go with the subtle approach but going all out Drill Sargent is still an option.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 1:24 AM

2019-07-29T01:24:31-04:00

I would have yelled out “WHAT THE F—K!” Across the mall! And proceeded to either smoke the sh— out of her or beat the sh— out of her, either way I’m getting my sh—! JK.....after a good amount of time on AD and recently joining the Guard, I’ve learned they really don’t care. One day I watched a senior NCO walking around the armory several times, with no head gear, no top on, talking on the cell phone. My immediate thought was “what have I done?” No standards.

Response by PO2 Tony Divito made Jul 29 at 2019 8:17 AM

2019-07-29T08:17:42-04:00

While on Liberty I couldn’t wait to get into civvies. The only exception was in Australia. Where half of my uniform was missing and soiled by the time I went back in the ship. The Chief at the quarter deck knew we had a good time. Didn’t give us crap as long as we made it back.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 9:13 AM

2019-07-29T09:13:36-04:00

I definitely would have said something. Regardless of duty status, a Soldier is tepresentative if their branch of service and of the country as a whole. Looking cute is not a goal of regulations. By not correcting the flagrant violation you inadvertently set a new standard for her. If you know you are right, make the correction.

Response by SPC Arthur Vasquez made Jul 29 at 2019 9:59 AM

2019-07-29T09:59:40-04:00

Makes no matter what race she was she should have been corrected. Rules and regulations are not for convenience.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2019 11:54 PM

2019-09-02T23:54:09-04:00

I would’ve just gotten some information and made a few phone calls on Monday. I’d let her supervisor handle it.

Response by SPC July Macias made May 23 at 2020 7:15 PM

2020-05-23T19:15:23-04:00

She's part of a larger demographic. Thousands of people are sliding through Basic and AIT because of retention requirements by the DA. I think this is where the Marines and Air Force are better than the Army. Because they're small, and aren't fixated on sheer volume of personnel. Their focus is on quality of workers. This is just my hypothesis, so feel free to debate me if I'm wrong.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2020 8:08 PM

2020-12-10T20:08:13-05:00

As long as you are calm and professional, explain the deficiencies and why its important to look professional in uniform.

Response by MSG Jacqueline Case made May 24 at 2021 5:33 PM

2021-05-24T17:33:34-04:00

Who knows what’s regulation with this new army anyway!

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made May 24 at 2021 7:10 PM

2021-05-24T19:10:05-04:00

I would start by introducing myself; name, rank, unit. See if member will respond in kind, and make note of information (name, rank, unit). Ask to speak in private; you can note that it is about the uniform. If okay, then speak your peace and move on with a nice farewell. If member is not certain about "speaking in private" then gently note uniform violations.

Note everything. If you get lip, don't let it bother you. Contact unit and advise of member (name, rank, after confirming Unit) uniform issues. If member seemed amenable to corrections thereof, say that, too. Stick to the facts.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made May 25 at 2021 1:20 AM

2021-05-25T01:20:10-04:00

I agree with G. A. Ask to speak with her alone. Ask to see her ID. Get her name. Continue about your business. You can let someone else handle the situation Monday. You have identified the issue.

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Jul 16 at 2022 3:21 PM

2022-07-16T15:21:26-04:00

Excellent post and I'm glad that You brought up this question. This has happened a lot in the past and will continue to occur. I believe that any excellent NCO should address that issue withat particular SM. Because most of the time that SM thinks it's okay to be seen out in public dressed like that. Ironically, there's always an NCO out there watching. I don't think it's wrong as an NCO to adress the issue. If You're going to wear the uniform in public, just make sure that You wear it the right way as to not make Yourself look bad and bring discredit to Your unit and the Army as well.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2022 6:39 PM

2022-09-22T18:39:40-04:00

Pull them to the side and address the issue. Not make a scene.