On the spot corrections

2013-12-18T05:53:25-05:00

To what extent should a Warrant Officer be making on the spot corrections? By that I mean at what point does the disconnect of "NCO business occur". Too often I hear the phrase "that's NCO business Chief" but I have an inability to simply walk past a deficiency, honestly believing in the cliche' that "if you walk past a violation of standard, you just created a new one". Perhaps it is just this station, but it feels like a daily battle here, I am not able to go to the shoppette or the gym without running into a soldier who doesn't have the slightest clue what the 600-5 is much less what's contained inside of it. I'm not on a power trip by any means, I would much rather the NCOs square away their soldiers, but again, at what point is the disconnect between general policing and "NCO business"? I have a lot of non prior enlisted aviators in my unit who don't understand the struggle and choose to just ignore deficiencies. Honestly, am I outside of my lane by policing up as I see it. For example, just today as I entered the shoppette, I spoke to a SSG who was smoking right next to the door, I politely asked him if he knew he was within 50ft of the entrance/exit of a building, he told me "I see everyone else doing it all the time". Is it just a Korea-ism I've failed to grasp?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 5:57 AM

2013-12-18T05:57:43-05:00

CW2 McCollum, You are never wrong in making a correction.  Any NCO who tells you otherwise is wrong....people seem to forget that there's this little thing called "General Military Authority" and making an on the spot correction is everyone's responsibility. If you inform a soldier of a correction that needs to be made, you've done exactly what you're supposed to.  Now if you were to stray over into the corrective action side of it, I could see an NCO telling you it was his business as the direct supervisor of said soldier. Keep up the fight for standards Chief, there's an abundance of leaders in the Army who don't care to do so.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 6:02 AM

2013-12-18T06:02:47-05:00

Regardless of rank, if a deficiency is observed it should be corrected. I have witnessed it and done it both up a down the chain. The soldiers, sailors and airman we are leading these days are very smart however bootcamp is much easier than when we went through it. They come to us lacking the discipline should be instilled early in their training. Bottom line, if it is observed and you know it is wrong you are charged with making it right, and do not tolerate any type of disrespect when trying to correct the deficiency.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 18 at 2013 6:49 AM

2013-12-18T06:49:35-05:00

Everyone has the responsibility to address wrong doing, regardless of rank. To me, this is Soldier Business, not NCO business. Our ranks do not make us right or wrong, our actions do. If I need corrected, whether it's by a Warrant, A general, or a Private, it's not my place to be angry or offended at the corrector, instead the only feeling I SHOULD have is shame that I needed correcting in the first place...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 7:18 AM

2013-12-18T07:18:55-05:00

I agree with all the previous statements. If we are all not making the corrections we are all part of the problem. I hate to be the one to do this though chief, but what is 600-5? It isn't an Army regulation?

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Dec 18 at 2013 7:41 AM

2013-12-18T07:41:29-05:00

Lax enforcement leads to a lax Army.  NOT ON MY WATCH!

Response by CW2 Kameron Read made Dec 24 at 2013 8:15 AM

2013-12-24T08:15:05-05:00

Being the most junior WO in the army I am learning how to deal with this myself. I've asked my senior WO what to do in these situations. She explained to me that as warrant officers we need to be approachable by all ranks, as advisors and technical experts, that is most important. It doesn't mean that you can't correct a policy violation, you just need to approach the Soldier as an advisor/mentor. Personally I will find the nearest NCO and explain the issue for him/her to correct. If there isn't an NCO around to enforce standards then I will address the Soldier in a tactful manner that encourages compliance. Most Soldiers respond to a helpful approach more so than being yelled at or degraded. I think overall that Soldier will respect you more for treating them as a professional.

Response by SSG Zachery Mitchell made Feb 28 at 2014 8:31 PM

2014-02-28T20:31:55-05:00

CW2 McCollum,

Nothing wrong at all with a Warrant Officer making on the spot corrections. If someone is jacked up and need to be fixed then all leaders should say something. The concerning part to me is that you had to correct a SSG for smoking right outside the door of the shoppette and they used the excuse "I see everyone else doing it all the time." That is an excuse I'd expect from a PVT.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 6:05 PM

2014-03-04T18:05:21-05:00

CW2 McCollum,

You are still a soldier so you are just as responsible for correcting soldiers as anyone else would be, enforcing the standards is not rank discriminate, now that being said NCO's these days are to worried about being buddy, buddy with their soldiers and can not seperate friendship and professionalism. This to me is the biggest reason for NCO's turning a blind eye to correcting soldiers when necessary. If it's NCO business, then the NCO needs to do his damn job. Chief do what you're doing, you are not wrong and if the NCO doesn't do his duties and resposibilities then grab him up and light a fire under his tail. I

Response by MSG John Wirts made Aug 23 at 2014 2:12 PM

2014-08-23T14:12:27-04:00

I totally agree with the following response, on-the-spot corrections are just on the spot by the person encountering or witnessing the violation. If an officer allows an enlisted solder to pass by with out salute, or greeting, if encumbered or would be a safety issue. It falls on the officer to correct,, if I as an NCO were to witness and the officer did not correct, I would correct the enlisted member unless he outranked me. If he did I would report the incident to the solder's commander. The same with the officer, I might ask for permission to speak, advise him/her of the violation. If they agreed to correct their action, done, if not report it to their senior officer.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 2:26 PM

2014-08-23T14:26:12-04:00

Different branch of course, but here's my take:

If I were correcting a deficiency of someone else's subordinate, I would inform them of the deficiency, and instruct them to inform their supervisor of the correction. This way, I can ensure the deficiency is brought to the member's attention, and I can also make their supervisor aware of it in case if happens again in the future.

If the supervisor were to take issue with it, they can feel free to speak to me about it. Walking by something that needs correcting only leads to more problems down the road.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 3:11 PM

2014-08-23T15:11:09-04:00

Chief...by the time you found that issue, it is highly likely that a number of NCO's had seen it and done nothing about it. I'm the only LTC in my Squadron footprint, but for some GD reason, I am picking up trash all the time. How many enlisted and NCO's have walked that ground before me?? FAIL. By the time you got there, it BECAME officer business, because multiple NCO's decided they didn't want to make it NCO business. Anyone who is offended and tells you that it's NCO business needs to have a good skull-dragging. "No SGT...it used to be NCO business. Now it's officer business...and you're going to get some too." Grr. I should have been a CSM.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Jan 29 at 2015 7:24 PM

2015-01-29T19:24:19-05:00

CW2,

You are an Officer, you lead the way! Doing on the spot Corrections as the other Officers and Senor Staff NCO and Staff NCO's I see Commented have told you comes with the Job and is an ongoing Battle for you. Remember This Sir you are there to do a Job and a big part of that job is to make sure Every Solder, Marine, Seaman, and Airmen you see is in Regulation specs. no matter if they be Active duty or Reserve. You are not there to be liked Sir you are there to Take Charge. Respect does not come from being nice and letting things go in these cases, Respect comes from you setting the Pace, Ensuring your Solders are fallowing the Regulations they signed the contract to fallow, and Discipline and Correct any solders that are out of Regs. and as you can See I was a what we call a non-rate (Terminal Lance Corporal ). This is the Second Discussion involving Korea Duty Station... Gentlemen you are the leaders "LEAD" if you are Consistent in your Enforcement of Military Regulations That is where you will start to earn the respect of those under you. To You Active and Veteran Service Members Here THANK YOU for your Service. and God Bless- Semper Fi

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-04-06T17:41:49-04:00

Chief,

Anything you see you can and (in my opinion) should correct. That correction can be through junior leaders, to junior leaders, or even (especially?) to seniors.

If we want the Army to be better, we need to be comfortable giving and receiving corrections.

As a former NCO, I'm still looking for the reg of "NCO lane" or "Officer Business"; it doesn't exist. I understand we divide our work with trust, but if a correction needs to be made, and I am there, I'll make it. I hope other Soldiers will do the same.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Apr 6 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-04-06T19:34:49-04:00

I'm with you CW3 Private RallyPoint Member , but I don't have enough time during the day to address every instance of Pilots walking while they use their phones, or standing and talking with their hands in their pockets.
Don't get me started with the chew I've had to clean off the floor of my Apaches.

I just like having a roof over my head too much so I try to make my corrections to Officers and WOs as few and far between as possible sir

GMA is where it's at though.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-04-06T19:42:00-04:00

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member My question would be "why wouldn't a Warrant Officer make corrections?" Making on the spot corrections is not NCO business, it's leader business. As soon as you walk past a deficiency and allow that to occur, you (not you specifically) have not lowered the standard to that level.

One of the problems with today Army is people don't want to take the time and hold ourselves accountable. We would rather just walk on by and pretend it didn't happen.

Another issue I have seen is we have grown our junior leaders WAY TO FAST over the past decade or so....mostly due to the sustained conflict. We need to slow down and teach our junior leaders what right looks like, and that includes making on the spot corrections. Junior leaders, in my eyes are the CPL to SSG, WO1 to CW2, and 2LT to CPT. But, maybe that is just me!