Police brutality: justified or unjustified?

Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 20:46:38 -0400

Police brutality is all over the news these days. It seems that police dont know when it is weapons free and when it is not. Is it the lack of training they have? Or is it that they are too trigger happy? Should federal officers prob police departments to see if they are training the police correctly?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 9:58 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:58:19 -0400

Training? Is there anyone who truly thinks that there is any officer out there that thinks it is okay to shoot a fleeing unarmed suspect in the back 8 times?

This was not a result of training or lack thereof.

Why did it happen? We may never know. This I do know. I have seen many post as if they know. That too is a part of the problem.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 9:09 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:09:53 -0400

I do not think it is a lack of training. I think it is an over abundance of people behind a camera and a keyboard who want to act like the SME in everything they see. I have no clue the amount of time or effort is put into the training of police officers. But as a Soldier who has spent lots of time scheduling and attending training in the military I can assume it is alot. Yet we still have people make bad calls, mistakes, wrong calls, calls they thought were right and truned out wrong or even the right call that some outsider with no information said was the wrong call. You ask if federal officers should check the departments for correct training. What makes those federal officers the ones to do that? Who says they are trained correctly? We as citizens need to stop sticking our noses into every single situation that we see or hear about on the internet. Everyone can have an opinion. Doesn't mean your opinion means squat. There is some SME out there handling it; let them handle it.

Response by SGT John Wesley made Apr 11 at 2015 7:02 PM

SGT John Wesley — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 19:02:33 -0400

I'm glad that the introduction of cellphone cameras are bringing these crimes out into the public.

I'm not anti-police, far from it. I think those who feel they are above the law should be punished, and that local police agencies should be fixing this issue thru training and a zero tolerance policy. Too many of these may have been shoved under the rug and now it's an epidemic and the public is beginning to feel it's endemic of law enforcement as a whole, which is far from the truth, but news media has put it out there on a 24 hour spin.

They need to do some serious PR and some serious house cleaning. It's their job to protect and serve their communities and hopefully, they'll weed out the bad apples and restore their image.

Do not forget that the uniformed service had issues in the 70's and we came through it with a better military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 11:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 11:28:19 -0400

Just yesterday, there was a demonstration in Olympia, Washington for a police officer who shot two suspects of shoplifting.

Strike 1: The police officer claims the two had beat him with a skateboard.
Strike 2: They stole alcohol from a grocery store.
Strike 3: They resisted/ran.

We are demonizing our police force to the point where they will have absolutely no ability to enforce the law. All these people are saying "Disarm the Police." As soon as that happens, we will have ZERO ability to keep the streets safe. Yes, we are all saying that they are not safe now because the police are shooting people willy nilly. Best way to not be shot/beat by police: do not break the law. Crazy concept, right?

One corrupt cop does not mean all cops are corrupt. That is like saying every NCO is a dirt bag because there was one dirt bag NCO at your last unit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 7:21 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:21:39 -0400

Police are trained to fire depending on serveral circumstances. It's generally one or two officers and one perpetrator. Engaging in a melee situation with the numbers being one on one or two on one is out of the question. You run the risk of the perp gaining control of one of the officer's service weapons, which would be lethal for the officer. The next logical choice is to use the taser. Tasers aren't the solve-all that everyone makes them out to be. Especially if the person is hopped up on something. Which leaves the officer with his service weapon. If the officer feels that his life is in danger, he/she has no other choice than to use lethal force. Think about it this way, you and a 5 foot ten officer, who weighs about 170 pounds and barely made it through the PD's academy are making your rounds, and you're called to a situation where there is a single male, who weighs 230 lbs and obviously goes to the gym a LOT more than you do, and also appears to by hopped up on what ever his drug of choice is. What are you going to do? You and your partner sure as shit aren't going to be able to contend with him in any form of melee. The taser is going to be relatively ineffective, and now the guy is walking towards you, paying no heed to your orders to stay where he is. What are you going to do? How about another situation. You and your partner are called to a car, which is stopped alongside the highway, no lights are running at all. You've been called there because there are reports of someone taking shots at passing cars, and you're relatively sure that they've been coming from said vehicle. The safety of civilians traveling in the area is at risk. You and your partner are at risk. Obviously someone is trying to kill people, maybe even trying to draw out Police Officers specifically to kill. What are you going to do? You know what you would be doing if you were down range in Afghanistan? You'd be confirming that the target in question is hostile, and then requesting fire support from the safety of your hilariously armored MRAP. Police don't have that kind of protection on their side. The only thing they have is their ability to judge a situation and act. And if they don't make the right decision, they might end up not making it back to their families. Watch a few videos of police officers dash cameras capturing them being killed, while doing simple traffic stops. With no warning what so ever, you can see them being gunned down. No indication that it was going to happen.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Nov 1 at 2015 6:06 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:06:38 -0500

Police "brutality", in any form, is never ever justified...
Either LEO's are acting in accordance with the law AND their training, or they are not; and if it requires a court to determine this for every incident they have, then there is an issue...

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 1 at 2015 6:41 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:41:46 -0500

I've all ready been called one of those citizens. When the video came out about the Cop in Florida who took out his gun and shot and killed a man. And the department came down on him like a hammer and he is up on murder charges. First Michael Brown, the thug tried to take the officers gun. It went off . He started to run and turned around and charged the officer. He never had his hands up and he was not on his knees. Second in New Tork the Govenor has a task force to go after people selling single cigarets. He was loosing tax revenue. The one in Baltimore we may never know how it happend. Because of what the AG and mayor did. It's okay for you to but down the town. It only money. Last the girl who was disrupting the class and continued even after she was asked to stop. Deserves what she got. If she had gotten he you no what out of the chair she would not have fallen over. And what about the people who came there to learn had to sit through the disruption. And know Hillary has emplacement black lives matter. And has made disparaging remarks about the police force. Not to mention that Blacks get longer sentences because of there color. What is happening now we're cops are looking the other way and staying in there cars. These people don't know what real police brutality is.

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Dec 1 at 2015 5:28 PM

SPC Andrew Griffin — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:28:21 -0500

Unjustified! Real Simple! Period!

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Jul 10 at 2016 12:46 AM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 00:46:35 -0400

Brutality is never justified. Police use of force is often justified. Brutality is the equivalent of excessive force and cannot be justified. Deadly force is the ultimate level of force. It is rarely used given the number of citizen contacts that officers have over time. Deadly force is not necessarily excessive but is based on the totality of circumstances in an individual situation.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2017 8:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:55:48 -0500

What The News Calls "Police Brutality" and what is really "Police Brutality" are 2 very different things.....It is easy for non police persons and news personalities (They are not reporters) See the article I posted in RP

https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/understanding-police-use-of-force-right-vs-reasonable?urlhash=2217404

Understanding police use of force: Right vs. reasonable | RallyPoint

Interesting article especially for non LEOs

Response by TSgt Thomas Monaghan made Jan 5 at 2017 8:15 PM

TSgt Thomas Monaghan — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 20:15:47 -0500

As a corrections Officer for over 15 years where every second I work is recorded. I have never personally a inmate upset me enough for me to dross the line. I think all law enforcement are more like me we do the right thing when everybody is looking or when nobody is looking( sound familiar). IN all areas of Law Enforcement and the Military you have people who are just bad human beings and there is nothing we can do about it.I believe one bad/stupid persons actions should not reflect on everyone else, all Military and Law Enforcement should be grouped togaher just because 1 idiot crosses the line.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2017 4:34 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 May 2017 16:34:21 -0400

Your "question" is a non-starter. Brutality is a no-go. BUT, you cannot watch a few seconds of cellphone video and come to any sort of conclusion that answers the myriad of questions about the events that precede the taped "brutality." I've been there, several times. You watch it on TV and, like hundreds of thousands in this country, become an instant expert with a crystal ball. Real police work does not come with those luxuries. Never has, and never will. In re, I will hold any judgement on this matter until it is fully investigated by appropriate authorities.

Response by CPL LaForest Gray made Jun 22 at 2021 11:49 AM

CPL LaForest Gray — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 11:49:36 -0400

*WATCH*

https://youtu.be/3-zN7A9Wo_M

*{Eventually it’ll sink-in}*

1.) A look at the Casual Killing Act of 1669 that made it legal to kill a slave at will :

1669
Virginia passes an act regarding the casual killing of slaves: "If any slave resist his master (or other by his master’s order correcting him) and by the extremity of the correction should chance to die, that his death shall not be accompted felony."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/face2faceafrica.com/article/a-look-at-the-casual-killing-act-of-1669-that-made-it-legal-to-kill-a-slave-at-will/amp

2.) Slave Patrols: An Early Form of American Policing

July 10, 2019 | Authored by Chelsea Hansen

“I [patroller’s name], do swear, that I will as searcher for guns, swords, and other weapons among the slaves in my district, faithfully, and as privately as I can, discharge the trust reposed in me as the law directs, to the best of my power. So help me, God.”
-Slave Patroller’s Oath, North Carolina, 1828.

Source : The National Law Enforcement Museum

https://lawenforcementmuseum.org/2019/07/10/slave-patrols-an-early-form-of-american-policing/

“The National Law Enforcement Museum is dedicated to telling the story of American law enforcement by providing visitors a “walk in the shoes” experience. The Museum is working to expand and enrich the relationship shared by law enforcement and the community through educational journeys, immersive exhibitions, and insightful programs.”
_________________________________ •

“Although the Supreme Court has addressed the circumstances in which police are justified in using deadly force, the Court has not considered the obligation of police officers to render aid to those whom they have shot or injured.”

https://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/92251/1/OSJCL_V18N1_391.pdf

*let that sink in*

*** Disclaimer : This a repost from myself, because people are tooooo comfortable with the status quo. ***

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