'Political Correctness' - Is this hurting or helping our military?

2014-01-23T09:38:32-05:00

Does 'political correctness' cater to a small group of individuals and/or alienate the masses?<br><br>Examples:  Same-sex marriages, religious grooming standards, etc.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 9:42 AM

2014-01-23T09:42:08-05:00

I do not think it has to. Being politically correct does not mean catering.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 12:34 PM

2014-01-23T12:34:51-05:00

I think "pandering" would be a better word than "catering". Political correctness makes us soft and, at its worst, lowers mission readiness by overemphasizing the need to avoid hurting anyone's feelings in lieu of effective training.

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 23 at 2014 8:58 PM

2014-01-23T20:58:26-05:00

Being PC is what changed many things for the military beginning during the mid-90s, it started that downward spiral from there as far as training, customs and courtesies, finance utilization and so on. If we wouldn't have been cowed down from the politicians trying to please the non-serving and focused on the mission readiness and real training instead of not hurting someone's feelings during basic or AIT, or not offending someone's religious beliefs by changing standards for them to serve. I could go on listing changes that have come about because of PC requirements for and from people that never have nor will never put the uniform on.

We have been turned into a military that is concerned about whose feelings are hurt or who we may offend rather than being allowed to do our jobs of defending the nation the way it should defended. We are the armed services, not the waiters to the privileged of Congress, big business, and the rich and famous.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 9:08 PM

2014-01-23T21:08:35-05:00

It is hurting and I think the decisions do not really come from the Pentagon but the cronies of an absurd group of anti-religious acolytes. lol

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 9:15 PM

2014-01-23T21:15:08-05:00

Same-sex marriage is more so dedicated to overall equality and assuming no special privileges are given, its not a big deal. Religious grooming, stamping out corrective training, not hurting people's feelings and the likes is just getting ridiculous. Its the military and whether people accept it or not, our business is war and personal assuagement to people has no place in that. If you can't handle it, leave. Don't demand the entire military spectrum change for you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 9:28 PM

2014-01-23T21:28:33-05:00

Political correctness starts with politics and it is the politics of this nation making our military a test tube for society. What we can be proud of is being professionals and executing the order given. Today's political correctness will be the next generations norm.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 23 at 2014 9:36 PM

2014-01-23T21:36:29-05:00

I think it's a question of perspective.

Some make the argument that "catering to a small group is bad for the overall picture, it'll hurt morale, it will hurt our readiness, we don't need to change the standard" etc...

You know what though? Those same arguments were made when it came time to integrate women. And when it came time to desegregate blacks. And still now concerning homosexuals.

If you don't do the right thing, just to placate the masses, what does it say about your values as an institution? Or as a person? Just because a notion is popular, it doesn't mean it's correct.

Response by SFC Michael Patterson made Jan 23 at 2014 10:04 PM

2014-01-23T22:04:40-05:00

I don't know if it is so much political correctness as it is pandering. If the powers that be stand against anything they are labeled a racist, homophobic, anti-(whatever religion) etc. The military has standards for a reason and we all know why they are there. Regardless of the reasons people forget that the military is not a democratic machine its more of a dictatorship. If an individual's personal beliefs/ wants out weigh their patriotism they really need to think long and hard before the join the military.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jan 23 at 2014 10:20 PM

2014-01-23T22:20:26-05:00

It's hurting us. Look at how many discussions have pitted service member against service member, female against male, Christian against atheist etc. I haven't been in a long time but I don't remember it ever being this hostile.   

Response by SGT Drue Rockwell made Jan 24 at 2014 9:15 AM

2014-01-24T09:15:59-05:00

I think being considerate of others within reason is good on a personal level. However, the level of PC or pandering is too much. When I'm more afraid of getting in trouble when joking with fellow soldiers than I am enjoying the camaraderie and such it hurts morale. Soldiers have seldom been the most politically refined individuals in the world. That is not our job. Our job is to be an effective war machine. We are too soft and discipline is lower because a soldier knows he can pull a stress card or whatever, and that he can just call eo or say I hurt his feelings and my hands get tied behind my back...

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 29 at 2014 8:26 AM

2014-06-29T08:26:42-04:00

It's hurting society as a whole. If the treatise, "You can't please all the people all the time, has merit, then why does abiding by it leave us with the PC reality that someone, somewhere, is being offended all the time because they can't be pleased? If we had to be PC all the time then you would have to please all the people all the time and that's just purely impossible.

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Jun 30 at 2014 1:53 AM

2014-06-30T01:53:05-04:00

It is actually hurting the military. Yes, there are certain words that should not be said anymore due to the fact that they are not proper. With that being said, the PC police are more likely to be a small minority that tends to alienate the masses since they really do not talk about the issues but demand that you follow them instead. Which really is sad..

Response by SN Sean Willson made Jun 30 at 2014 8:22 AM

2014-06-30T08:22:05-04:00

Too many times political correctness and common consideration are confused with each other. Refraining from the use of certain derogatory terms is courtesy and common decency. Allowing a "transgendered person" to flaunt themselves publicly while representing the military is being PC. While I was in men were not allowed to wear earrings even though at the time it was socially acceptable and even considered "manly" in the civilian world. Did I whine about my rights being trampled? No. I simply removed my earring and went about my duties. I always preferred the DADT policy. I have no problem with homosexuals in the military. They can fight as well as anyone else. I don't think they should have the right to shove their lifestyle choices in anyone's face. If they want to be treated the same as anyone else then they need to do the same as everyone else, STFU and do your job.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 17 at 2014 10:31 AM

2014-09-17T10:31:26-04:00

I think the question is a bit loaded and subjective, just because "political correctness" means different things to different people..

I've known a few Soldiers over the years who would cite desegregation and womens suffrage as "that damn political correctness"..

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2014 12:38 PM

2014-11-16T12:38:03-05:00

That is a terrible thing.
Looks like he attempted an on-the-spot correction and got crushed politically due to the visibility and timing of the incident in question.

My question is, where were all of the other witnesses in the room when things started getting out of hand, shooting pictures?

I think we have all seen unseemly things at formal events where alcohol is consumed. You take care of each other, and "encourage" folks who've had a pint too many to retire for the evening. So where were they?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2014 2:15 PM

2014-11-16T14:15:40-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, I think this probably was mostly the PC police taking it way too far in response to LTC Downey's actions. He may have gone a bit far getting personally involved and physically trying to stop people from taking pictures (that's up for debate in my mind), but I agree with what I read, namely that if this had been a "traditional couple" engaging in the same behavior, little to nothing would have been done to LTC Downey. On the contrary, the couple probably would have been admonished for PDA in uniform. Welcome to the new Army, I guess.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 8:03 PM

2014-12-28T20:03:15-05:00

Extremely so!!!

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 28 at 2014 8:06 PM

2014-12-28T20:06:21-05:00

Yes because it prevents open and meaningful discussion about serious issues. We have lost the ability to engage in healthy and respectful debate because it is now against the rules to speak anything which might offend anybody. That stops any progress at resolving the most significant challenges of our society.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 28 at 2014 8:12 PM

2014-12-28T20:12:17-05:00

Oh yes. We need common sense and thick skin.

Not much more to say than that.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 8:29 PM

2014-12-28T20:29:05-05:00

I agree with you, SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member. Taken to a "logical" conclusion, political correctness could stifle all activity, because we can find something to be offended by or someone who will be offended by just about everything. I think you're right that it can have a tendency to make people weak because of a fear of offending anyone.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 28 at 2014 9:09 PM

2014-12-28T21:09:07-05:00

It can be frustrating, no doubt. And in a profession where killing people is the central purpose, perhaps we need to spend most of our time focusing on how to kill and not die, rather than worrying about offending people.

That said, in other disciplines, political correctness can be essential.
https://hbr.org/2006/09/rethinking-political-correctness

Rethinking Political Correctness

Sensitivity to race, religion, or gender is a good thing, but too often it is driven by fear. Rather than walk on eggshells, managers can learn to develop more productive, meaningful relationships at work.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 12:22 PM

2014-12-29T12:22:48-05:00

Political correctness eliminates the ability to speak truthfully in national conversations.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 2:03 PM

2014-12-29T14:03:07-05:00

I'll be honest, I'm lacking in this department and I will not change. Although I have hurt a few feelings I have never been malicious by words or action and I have been so lucky as to correct problems vs coddle them. My young warriors know that I will not hesitate to correct them in a manner that speaks of our heritage and background. Ronald Regan was a true leader and had a huge pair of stones. He was politically correct, but he wouldn't stand for any nonsense either!

Response by SSgt Jason Kunselman made Dec 29 at 2014 2:38 PM

2014-12-29T14:38:55-05:00

I believe the military is a "kinder, gentler" place than when I joined. It's about taking orders, and learning and earning respect. In my humble opinion, it's hard to do, when you have to worry about hurting every ones feeling, and not believing as they do.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 12:43 AM

2014-12-31T00:43:37-05:00

I border of the edge of Fringe trying to be PC...I often fail. I will fail on here. But I know we all have strong feeling, some of us are neurotic, some of us are OCD, some are ADD, and the rest of up I normal ones.....haa haa haa , there isn't anything normal about the military.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 11:04 AM

2014-12-31T11:04:47-05:00

I wouldn't use the word "dangerous," per se, but I would say it makes things a little more chaotic. Stand in a formation with a frustrated 1SG who can't speak the naked, unadulterated truth and tell me it's not slightly (verbally) chaotic...one almost has to form an entirely different set of vocabulary for when in uniform, so as not to hurt feelings or get investigated. I'm just throwing out a hypothetical example, but it is frustrating not being able to speak plainly. BLUF: I've heard many more potentially "offensive" military speeches that were impactful and remembered, than those that were watered down and laced with speech equivalent to gumdrops and unicorns.

Response by CPT Chase Sanger made Dec 31 at 2014 11:19 AM

2014-12-31T11:19:42-05:00

Things that should be said, are not. Sometimes a stern, uncensored message is needed to get the mission accomplished. Just because what is being said wouldn't make it into a PG movie doesn't mean that it isn't necessary in our profession. I am glad that there are leaders out there that realize this and do what needs to be done.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 11:24 AM

2014-12-31T11:24:59-05:00

I think there is a fine line between political correctness and common decency that a lot of people have different thresholds for. I have a very low tolerance for political correctness when I feel it interferes with combat effectiveness, such as the relatively recent push to open up jobs and potentially lower standards for females in the Army. At the same time I feel very strongly about equality when it comes to other aspects of a soldiers life such as religious tolerance and other things traditionally categorized under "equal opportunity."

No one is going to agree fully on what is and isn't dangerous because it's so difficult to pin down what is and isn't politically correct vs professional and common decency.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Dec 31 at 2014 5:23 PM

2014-12-31T17:23:39-05:00

I am a firm believer in the "not everybody gets a trophy" mindset.

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Feb 4 at 2015 10:06 AM

2015-02-04T10:06:28-05:00

Hurting. Pampering a 200-pound guard dog doesn't get the perimeter-running, fleet-footed, flesh-rending beast you need to protect your home and family. Neither does PC catering in the military. Our function is to kill, destroy, and/or detain the enemy. If we incorporate such sensitive service members into our fighting forces that words and ideas are hurting them... what chance to they have against bullets, bombs, and mines?
Thick skin, tight lips, and powerful faith in their partners and leaders is what we need to provide our military for effectiveness, not PC sensitivity training.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 10:27 AM

2015-02-04T10:27:22-05:00

hurting

Response by SrA Joshua Hagler made Feb 4 at 2015 9:00 PM

2015-02-04T21:00:53-05:00

The only time I would allow any religious grooming standards is if they were a Chaplin, other wise that, you better shave. Same-sex marriages is not a "Correctness" thing with me. Marriage in the military is hard and sometime people do it for silly reasons. I have seen those who are gay marry the opposite sex to afford being kicked out during the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" era. For me, Political Correctness is killing the VA side, our benefits that we earned, and even our senior leaders from making sound decisions.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Feb 6 at 2015 1:29 AM

2015-02-06T01:29:08-05:00

Political Correctness is a farce, people do not want to hear the truth, unless it has been sugar coated, and then it has to be what they want to hear. I also feel Stress Cards are huge waste of money and time as well, and was brought on with the onset of being Politically Correct.

Response by MSG Dan Foster made Feb 6 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-02-06T10:01:29-05:00

SGM Quick, anyone serving in todays "P-C" environment faces challenges I didn't have to face during my 20+ years of service. Policy changes, on and off the battlefield, have added additional stress to "the masses". That stress is doubled for Officers and Senior Enlisted. In 1966 when I arrived for Basic Training we all had our hair cut the same way, we all wore fatigues,black boots and we were all screamed at and disciplined the same way. We were all equal in the eyes of the military and each other. It worked and built a foundation for our military service. I don't see how that is possible in the current environment when we have to cater to small groups for a number of reasons. Because 'politician correctness' requires catering to small groups the masses are alienated, some more than others. The effect is for a different discussion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-03-10T19:35:03-04:00

"Political Correctness" in itself helps the military, in theory, but the overuse of complication of terminology or exaggerated passiveness towards a popular issue creates a social vacuum. In turn, this keeps those who can truly assist others in a social issue from presenting their opinion properly for fear of running into a "political incorrectness". It hinders meaningful communication most of the time, but overall its intention is to create a safer, more mature environment. It is all case-by-case.

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Mar 12 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-03-12T18:05:31-04:00

It hurts us. It's hard to say or do anything anymore without offending someone. They couldn't push it to the civilian sector because of the 1st amendment; so they pushed that crap on us. We're the softer and gentler military. We're suppose to make everything fair and keep our mouth shut if we don't agree with things instead of just telling it like it is. We all bring death to our enemies in some form or fashion, we really don't have time for kinder, gentler, and politically correct. It's not supposed to be fair, we're suppose to have standards; and all were doing is catering to minorities, ultimately compromising the highest standards. Are we not supposed to be second to none? What happens if our enemies eventually progress on resources? Do you think they will care about offending any of their people who are also supposed to be trained to bring death to their enemies? No, they will be training hardened warriors, not pissants who cry when they hear someone say something they believe is offensive.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-03-12T18:57:27-04:00

At the risk of offending just about everyone in this thread, has anyone scrolled down the list of posts and looked at the demographics of the people commenting up to this point?

And the down votes SFC Michael Hasbun just took for a measured and well thought out response should give pause.
SN Sean Willson DADT was a shameful part of our military's history in my opinion. Service members who were gay were not just prohibited from speaking their personal truth to anyone, but their lives were more harshly restricted than the typical service member. The list of off limits clubs in 2003 San Antonio listed every single "alternative" lifestyle club and bar in the city and reminded us that it was grounds for UCMJ action to include discharge/separation. Not a problem for your average straight soldier, but if you're a Morrissey fan, you probably won't make his concert.
PC has its use but it can be taken to far. Right-leaning members can say Obama not using the term "Islamic extremists" is taking PC to far. Left leaving members can point at Bush changing "global warming" to climate change.
When PC is used to hide the problem, then it is a problem.
And in the end this is what civilian oversight is. We agreed to serve. this is the framework set up by the founders. The military doesn't have to like it. It just has to do it.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Mar 20 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-03-20T16:12:17-04:00

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Mar 20 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-03-20T18:30:36-04:00

Political correctness, it's all about ways to shut-up those who disagree with whatever the minority is saying!

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 4:22 PM

2015-09-30T16:22:59-04:00

Concur Cpl Clinton Britt

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 30 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-09-30T16:30:19-04:00

You can't just attack someone who poses no threat to you.. that's ROE 101.. While I get the emotions behind it, he was clearly in the wrong. He wasn't defending anyone, he was just assaulting someone after the fact. He heard rumors from personnel on another FOB (he didn't actually witness anything), confronted the guy with no evidence, didn't like his attitude, and proceeded to assault him (this is all in his public statement). If he really doesn't see the problem, then he really shouldn't be wearing stripes, much less a uniform.. I know this will be unpopular, but he was clearly in the wrong.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-09-30T16:54:52-04:00

This guy needs a medal, not a discharge.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2016 10:31 AM

2016-08-26T10:31:29-04:00

It does both. Our focus in the military is war fighting and ensuring our readiness to do so. We are often distracted by the political correctness issues that occur and the push to ignore reality in order to feed the false narratives out there.

Case in point, if we KNOW that making a change will result in greater causalities, compromise potential mission success, we logically wouldn't do it. But for PC reasons we make the accommodation

However, some PC stuff is important because too often we allow personal business to become the subject for professional scrutiny. When it comes to Race, Gender, Sexual preference, aren't things that should have any impact on our mission or professional handling for the care and well being of our troops, and the success of our missions.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Aug 26 at 2016 2:51 PM

2016-08-26T14:51:36-04:00

It's bad. Call someone sir and get called to the carpet because it wants to be called mam. WTF