Rankism. Is there such a thing in the military?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 13:10:30 -0400

Rankism-discrimination against people on the grounds of rank.

There has always been grudges held at the various levels but for what reason. Countless times a new 2LT walks into a situation where he is instantly disliked for merely showing up. How many times have we thought of a new Private as automatically going to make mistakes so you have to treat as such. Or, the CSM that everyone thinks they only care about Uniform violations and walking on the grass.

Recently we found that SMA Dan Dailey revise the tattoo policy. I, for one, didn't see that coming. I didn't think a new SMA would make such a change like that for soldiers. At times we feel that they are so far disconnected from the soldiers they may not have us in mind.

Is this something that we face. Do soldiers with a certain rank or position get grouped in the a mass assumption of others that had that rank in the past?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 1:21 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 13:21:03 -0400

If course we do, it's human nature. It's not just the military, the same thing happens in the civilian world. In the military you have to "prove" yourself before you are allowed to be part of the family.

Is it wrong? I don't know but it's been going on forever. I think the SMA did what any leader does. He evaluated the climate and saw something that needed to be addressed immediately. That happens almost every time a new leader comes in, this just happened to be at the highest level.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 2 at 2015 1:42 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 13:42:56 -0400

Of course there is. We all make assessments based on "limited data" all the time. In other words, we "profile."

When you see an NCO, you treat them like an NCO. When you see an officer, you treat them like an officer. When you see a General, you treat them like a General. Unfortunately... when you see a junior service member (non-NCO), you treat them like none of the above.

Rank generally denotes "scope of responsibility, " as well as "time in service." TIS however is much more fluid and easy to mistake. There is no way to know on first glance that the 2LT had 12 years in, making SSG before going Green to Gold. There's no way to know if the SGM has 20 or 30 years. What we do know is a LT or a SGT, or a CPT "should" be able to handle anything up to X, and if it is above X, we need to ensure we are properly equipping them for the task.

That's where we often fail. Rank doesn't denote capability, it denotes invested power.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 2 at 2015 1:52 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 13:52:00 -0400

I think the proper phrase is "Rank has it's privileges". Right or wrong, it is what it is. Sure, that 2LT is going to catch some hell and that PV1/PV2 is going to seen as the guy to mess things up. A new CSM may be seen as a jerk because he/she actually ensures standards are met and followed.

Now does that make any of it right? No but until the circle is broken it will continue to go around.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 2 at 2015 2:39 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 14:39:52 -0400

I say just go to the PX and see if you find any parking spots that say "SSG's Only." *Drops mic

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 2 at 2015 3:00 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:00:09 -0400

Is it 'rankism' or harm less hazing of the new guys and expecting more out of the old timer?

Sure I see patterns in how the soldiers in each rank tend to act but it is not discrimination in the negative meaning. We discriminate...make judgments...based on our past observations. New PVTs/2LTs are not going to have a depth of knowledge that other soldiers have, ETC. I can see patterns with nearly every group of soldiers in certain ranks and MOSs but that does not mean all in those groups act that way. You

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 3:29 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:29:32 -0400

Totally, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, this goes without saying, and it's definitely readily apparent when you look at a Reservist.

As Reservists, we come into the game with a wide variety of prior experience, education, and age. I enlisted/graduated BMT as an E-3, 30 years old, with a Master's Degree. Quite different than the typical/stereotypical Junior E troop. I am the OIC in a section of enlisted Airmen who have degrees comparable to or that exceed mine, who have work and technical experience significantly more extensive than mine in their civilian careers. We definitely can't judge someone just by their stripes in the Reserves.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Apr 2 at 2015 3:32 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:32:41 -0400

Of course there is "rankism", because there are ranks. That is the foundation that our military is built on.

Like in any profession, the "newbies" are looked upon and treated as such, whether they be Privates, Sergeants (E-5), or Second Lieutenants. The only real exceptions I see to the rule are Sergeants First Class/Platoon Sergeants (E-7), Majors and Brigadier Generals, who are technically "newbies" to their groups (i.e., Senior NCO, Field Grade Officer, and General Officer), but not actually treated as such.

The only problem I ever had with "rankism" was the common practice I observed of "E-6 and above" or "E-5 and below" groupings. I always objected to that and did not allow it in my units. My rationale was that E-5 are NCOs. I understood and allowed grouping of "E-4 and below" or "E-5 and above" or even "E-7 and above", but did not allow the E-5/E-6s to be considered anything less than an NCO in defined groups.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 3:49 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:49:41 -0400

Perfect example of this is not holding the "individual" responsible for their actions such as one not making it to an appointment or srp. So let's just mass punish everyone instead of sticking to the standards that we all hear all the time.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 2 at 2015 4:48 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 16:48:37 -0400

Let us not forget "Ranger-ism."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 4:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 16:53:18 -0400

I can't respond I have an appointment to get to... haha. But seriously all laughs aside I think that there is a kernel of truth rankism. It is just us being human, we like to group things together. Because really if I polled everybody here they probably have a personal 0-1 story, or an E-4 story, or a E-1 story or an E-9 story(still working on that one, but not really because it means they have to be around me).
Now I try to mentally rip off the rank and look at the person underneath, but when dealing with unknown soldiers and officers I generally plan for the stereotype and hope for the maverick.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 2 at 2015 5:06 PM

LTC John Shaw — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 17:06:06 -0400

Eric, Absolutely the military is full of Rank-ism by design, as Aaron has said, we profile and treat folks based on category or type of rank. Of course, this helps define and control an organization, but we need to understand these rank structures are over 200+ years old.

This rank-ism prevents us from listening and obtaining the best possible ideas and hinders our ability to implement these ideas across large organizations.

I see the responsibility of the senior ranking person to be open and listen and reinforce that when service members bring out ideas and information, it will be respected, strongly considered and where practical implemented.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Apr 2 at 2015 6:53 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:53:45 -0400

Oh yea, its called a LOOP-HOLE and every Military Branch has them.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Apr 2 at 2015 8:29 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 20:29:53 -0400

I was talking to a group of warrant officer candidates today about this same subject. ONe question I received from a Soldier who three weeks ago was a SFC and in two weeks will be a Warrant Officer One is: How do we treat new Lieutenants? My answers is just like you want to be treated. Salute them, give them the courtesy due a superior rank, and offer you experience to enrich them. Likewise, treat your senior enlisted with respect and accept their experience to enrich you. Both may eventually be in position of authority or influence over your careers at some point.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 2 at 2015 10:30 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 22:30:53 -0400

One of my Battalion Command teams just did a BN Cdr/CSM and Company Cdr/1SG for a Day with several PFCs and SPCs. They had to do all the briefings, meetings, and functions for a few days. Included Brigade Command and Staff, Training Meetings etc. Feedback was that the junior soldiers had no idea how much was going and what their leaders did, often unsolicited on their behalf. I scuffed up their Battalion over late awards, Evaluations, etc. XO worked them over on maintenance etc. I think walking a mile in someone's shoes helps build understanding. Understanding and shared experience builds Trust and breaks down barriers.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 3 at 2015 12:31 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 00:31:04 -0400

Yes, of course. It is the way of the military, or at least the Army. 2LTs are the best example.

You could add, the false assumption that 2LTs with prior service will be better, or are more better.

Only you (the individual) can minimize this based on your actions.... not your words.

We have ranks, a rank structure, and a chain of command for a reason.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Apr 3 at 2015 4:41 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 04:41:33 -0400

For the most part those senior enlisted and officers deserve that parking spot or whatever else little perk it is. They've been there/done that. What I DON'T agree with are people (mostly junior officers but some senior enlisted) who think that because of their rank they automatically know your job or know uniform regulations better than that First Class who's been in the Navy for 12+ years.
Case in point: when I was stationed on the USS Nimitz I started riding motorcycles. As such I went through all the safety training, wore all the PPE, and learned all the Navy and local instructions. Both Big Navy and local instructions said that I could wear my PPE from the time I parked my bike to my "immediate work area." This meant keeping my jacket and backpack on, carrying my helmet, and not wearing a cover since I wasn't in a complete uniform to begin with. Chiefs on my ship got VERY upset over riders not wearing a cover and therefore not saluting officers or saluting the flag as we came onboard/left the ship (though we were still required to face the flag and come to attention). Quoting the instructions to them was useless "I'm a Chief and I know the instructions and you're wrong!" Carrying the instruction on my person was no better "You could have forged this document!" It took involvement from our Command Master Chief himself explaining the instructions to his Chiefs.
On the other side, I don't know how many times an Ensign would try to give me advice while I was doing maintenance on a server rack, transmitter, or something like that I had been to school for and/or had years of experience on while the butter bar had only ever seen that equipment in a training environment and not in real life operation.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Apr 3 at 2015 12:22 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 12:22:32 -0400

Eric, I am so dying for your promotion and assignment as a company commander!!! I want to see you go through all the "isms" and saluting Lieutenants and parade resting NCOs. You should do your own blog here to let us know how it goes... :-)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2015 4:50 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 16:50:07 -0400

I think there's definitely some underlying attitudes. There's an attitude among some leaders that junior enlisted Soldiers wouldn't get their boots on the right feet without a SGT to make sure it happens. I think they're particularly prevalent towards junior Officers. I heard an NCO once recommend the new 2LT be hand-receipted to his PSG as a welcoming ceremony.

The problem I have with these attitudes is twofold. First, we assume too much. That new SPC may have a master's degree relevant to their job. I've also met a number of 2LTs who were prior service NCOs, some being SFCs or even 1SGs. Secondly, there's a difference between accepting inexperience and writing off their ability to contribute. Such beliefs set a low standard for those troops. If you expect poor results and regular mistakes, where is the incentive for that troop to perform their best? Obviously some will anyways, but there are plenty who will only achieve what is expected of them.

Response by SGM Eric Lobsinger made Apr 4 at 2015 1:11 AM

SGM Eric Lobsinger — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:11:23 -0400

Eric, Thanks for the thought-provoking subject. I am sure that many of us have held our own rank "prejudices" over the years. As a private, those master sergeants/first sergeants and sergeants major/command sergeants major just didn't know what it was like to be a private "today." As a sergeant, that platoon leader and commander were plainly uninformed as to what it meant to be a "leader of soldiers." Time and experience - and perhaps the ability to be willing to observe and learn, may (or may not) teach us to be a bit more open-minded at times (humor intended). As for tattoos, to be frank, I do not like them - and I do not like metal studs or earrings either. Now, before anyone gets upset, the real question is, "so what?" Look, the Army changed its standards on tattoos. I may not have liked it at the time, but we welcomed all of those men and women into our team to serve in our Army in our nation's time of need. Guess what? They were - and are - great soldiers. So how can we, as an Army, tell them that they are no longer valued members of our team? The simple answer is, we can't. They are part of us. I may not have initially agreed with the changing of the standard, but I personally appreciate the service each soldier has provided. As far as rank-ism goes, really? Is this one of the big issues facing our Army? Thank you everyone for your service.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 1:37 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:37:11 -0400

I wouldn't call it discrimination. The BDE CDR and CG have reserved parking spots because their time is extremely valuable to the Army. The CSM is automatically treated with respect because he/she demonstrated numerous times throughout various NCOES and selection boards that they are a technically and tactically proficient leader. Basically they are "grouped in a mass assumption" due to what they had to achieve to get to their position.

As for the SMA changing the tattoo policy, what's hard to believe about that? He polled and asked Soldiers from different bases what they thought of the tattoo policy and acted upon a preponderance of their views and the risk of losing valuable people due to aesthetic reasons.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Apr 4 at 2015 2:35 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 14:35:48 -0400

Of course it exists:

"WO never show up for PT" Probably, but then again most do it on their own.

"HE/SHE must be a WO because it's walking with hands in their pockets". TRUE, but so do some Commanders and Senior Enlisted.

How about the trusty "officers are smarter than enlisted because they went to college". I beg to differ. I have 2 Bachelors, and working on my Masters in History. Hell as a PFC I had a PL asked me for ideas and opinions on decisions he had to make.

Or recently, I'm in an in-processing Company waiting to ship to my actual unit, and E6 and above do not have to show up for morning accountability (a phone call will do), but E5 and below have to show up. Because of course we are not trustworthy enough to call in as the other ranks.

Or E7 and above can drive themselves to the briefings or in-processing appointments, but everyone else is too "dumb" to drive themselves. (Im 45 and traveled the world alone, so im sure I can find my way in a small post)

How about E7 and above can also call-in when signing in-out of leave while everyone else has to drive to post and do it. This one really bugs me.

etc.

.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Apr 4 at 2015 3:37 PM

PFC Zanie Young — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 15:37:45 -0400

If you look back at the days where there were SPC5s, SPC6s, and SPC7s, there was a lot of rankisms then. There was always a lot of friction between these specialists and NCOs. If you know where I'm getting at, you would know about "Rank Have its Privileges" theory. There were too much "rank pulling" between two different paygrades. As it was often said, some NCOs don't make good leaders and some specialists make fine leaders. Then there is the "Time in Grade" factor. That happens with officers, as well as the enlisted. Just because one is better qualified or more experienced or even older, does not necessarily mean one is the better soldier (or marine, sailor or airman). Just my 2 cents.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 3:37 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 15:37:52 -0400

Rank is based on merit (abeit not perfect) Race age creed etc. is not. When you promote you earn privilages its military tradition. That being said, "pulling rank" might be called "rankism" (ie talking down to someone or chewing out for something minor instead of a friendly professional correction) Pulling rank is not sound leadership.

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Apr 4 at 2015 5:51 PM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 17:51:27 -0400

Go into special operations...it's about capability and not rank. Plus, the O's come and go but the enlisted guys stay put evolving with the unit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 9:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 21:52:05 -0400

Coming from Enlisted to Officer I can say I've come across more disrespectful NCO's. Some people are so wrapped up in comparing a LT to a Private and exerting some kind of cognitive dissonance, between not wanting to deal with you but technically still having to show you an ounce of decency, that they forgot the first line of the Creed of an Non Commissioned OffIcer. Also I'm not the anal person to go around being that guy/gal who stops Soldiers to say "hey you're supposed to salute me!" (but know that Karma sleeps for no one) but where is the military bearing? Since when was it ok not to stand at parade rest for a SGT or salute a LT, when deference of rank permits, because of your personal beliefs? You're either a Non-Commissioned Officer/ Commissioned Officer or not. Where does it say "well you need a little more time in rank to receive basic customs and courtesies"?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 00:40:26 -0400

In my experience I have been subject to this. During my last deployment I was the only Soldier in my Brigade performing my MOS and Duty. My immediate Chain of Command recommend me for an MSM. My award recommendation was approved all the way up to brigade level. I was later informed that when the Brigade Commander saw my award recommendation he basically said No Sergeant deserves and MSM, and he downgraded it to an ARCOM.
A little bitter? Yep. Do I care now? Nope; I know what I accomplished during that year, so to hell with that guy. Karma got him anyway.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 6:49 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 06:49:03 -0400

This is a real issue that will never go away and it really isn't bad entirely. Just like police we absolutely have to profile. Some think profiling is bad but think on it honestly. If I grab some random private/seaman/airman chances are the service member will be white male near 19 years old and uneducated past high school. With so many similarities is it really smart to not assume there will be similar problems among them?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 8:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 08:55:21 -0400

What kind of stupid is this? You join you are nothing, you are treated as such until you prove otherwise. Stop crying because your feelings got hurt

Response by LTC Mark Maitag made Apr 5 at 2015 9:08 AM

LTC Mark Maitag — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 09:08:53 -0400

I don't call it discrimination, I call it discretion. Rank hath its privileges otherwise who would want all those headaches?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 12:05:44 -0400

Of course Rank-ism exists. Look at the award system. It is totaled FUBARed.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Apr 5 at 2015 2:29 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 14:29:39 -0400

Does that mean the more stripes you have the ranker you are?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 3:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 15:34:43 -0400

My question to you is… so?

All of those scenarios you mentioned are based off past experiences. All past experiences most people who are, or still in, have dealt with on countless occurrences. And there are rare occasions where that doesn't happen, but most likely, it's all happened to everyone. It's only a problem if it wasn't based off fact.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 5:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 17:46:01 -0400

The instances I have seen involving "Rankism" is very limited. However, I try to extend professional courtesy at all times. Everytime I receive a new Soldier, I explain to them that they will make mistakes and to embrace that as part of the growth process. I try and make a point that I would rather have a Soldier take a risk and fail than take no action at all. The same can be said for young 2LTs. I have witnessed a Smoke-man breakin in a young PL this way and it seemed to work well. I may be missing the point of this question, but it kind of seems like any instance in which someone is discounted solely based on their rank there may be a respect problem within the organization.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 7:09 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 07:09:02 -0400

Discrimination based on rank is a guarantee in the military, which I'm perfectly ok with when applied correctly. Now I don't buy the whole "Because you're just a (insert rank here), you can't do such and such." How is that person supposed to learn if you exclude them simply because of their rank. Their were times I assisted my supervisor or someone else with a task so I could learn how to do it, but did not have direct control over the task. To just brush them off because of their rank is doing nothing but setting that person up for failure when the reach a higher rank. How do you expect someone to do a certain task when they've never been shown how?

Response by SGT(P) Michael H. made Apr 6 at 2015 11:54 AM

SGT(P) Michael H. — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:54:02 -0400

I really don't care one way or the other who gets their own parking places. Do you think you're special? I just don't care any more. As for your comment on an E6 just hanging around for 20 and being mediocre, SMG Hernandez, I will say this, with all due respect as an OLD guy who has been hanging around and only made E5 and will be at 14 years when I ETS next year...SOME of us have been injured quite extensively during our time in, and have unfortunately had multiple profiles and surgeries to accompany them just so we could continue to function. To say someone who didn't make a certain rank in a certain time frame is blatantly misguided. I COULD be an E7 by now, but with all the injuries sustained downrange and on jumps, I've been on profile more than I care to admit, and I HATED every second of it. So please do not patronize us with that "mother army" BS about some of us just hanging around. It's unprofessional and just plain insulting! Rant off.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 6 at 2015 1:27 PM

SSG Richard Reilly — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 13:27:58 -0400

My answer is yes. And my example is simple. Providing an award guidance around rank. i.e., PVT-SPC (AAM), SGT-SSG & 1LT-2LT (ARCOM), SFC-1SG & CPT-LTC (MSM), etc...

Response by SSgt Robert Jason Dean made Apr 6 at 2015 1:39 PM

SSgt Robert Jason Dean — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 13:39:28 -0400

This doesn't seem so much an issue of "rankism" as it is one of stereotyping. That being said, while I do not agree with applying stereotypes to people, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason: there is a group of people who generally perform in a similar manner, or have similar likes, thus, creating the stereotype.

When it comes to the "new guy" scenario that seems to be prevalent throughout this discussion, regardless of how experienced a new team member is, there is always an amount of time where they are labeled as the "new guy", given a hard time about being new to the team, and given a bit of a pass on not knowing everything they need to know. Part of this is simply introducing a new member to an already established team and allowing time for the new member to get up to speed, as well as learning the rules, roles, and goals of the team. Once the new member is accepted by the group, this issues fall away, usually after the new member has somehow proven himself/herself in some way, perhaps something even as simple as being able to pull his/her own weight. Regardless of whether it is a military unit, or a civilian group of any kind, there is always a period of time required for adjustment after changing group components.

We could conduct a more in-depth analysis of this based upon my recent Group Behavior in Organizations class, but I'll leave that for later.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 1:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 13:45:23 -0400

Of course it exists. Stratification exists in every situation, including rank structure. I mean, it's pretty much designed as formal stratification.

It is our gift and curse as humans. We group things and associate ideals with those groups in order to make sense of the world. We then then couple that with certain attitudes which we then influence the next generation with. Sometimes this helps things, but all too often does it hurt the overall development of the society. Granted there are larger societal issues which influence the military society, but, over all, I can say that "rankism" exists and is here to stay.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Apr 6 at 2015 2:17 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:17:40 -0400

To call this "Rankism" is, imho, a symptom of the "Everyone gets a trophy" mentality. It's like the notion among millennial that there should be no hierarchies, and that everything should be run with a big group hug.

The military cannot and will not run like that, and people who think anything can get done in such a nature are highly idealistic and a bit of Pollyanna. Consider the "Occupy" movement.

What did they really accomplish, other than annoyances and getting press coverage?

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Apr 6 at 2015 2:26 PM

Cpl Peter Martuneac — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:26:44 -0400

First things first, is the new Sergeant Major of the Army really named Dan Dailey? That's awesome. But yes, rank discrimination happens all the time and there's really no getting around it. What rubs me the wrong way is when some SNCO's believe their rank is their entire persona. Example: a "mandatory fun day" for my battalion. Each company put together teams for different sports, and I was playing basketball for my company. The referee was a gunny and, stereotypically, if you even tried to dispute a call, he'd pull rank and shut you down. It's just a friendly game of basketball, but he had to make it some serious thing. Also, one of our players accidentally elbowed a Captain, and I swear to God some of those officers were about ready to NJP him for assaulting an officer.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 6 at 2015 5:56 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 17:56:30 -0400

Yes. And Rankism outside the military is much worse. Enjoy the closest thing to meritocracy while you can! In the civilian world, if you are not the King of Sparta, you're in for it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 6:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 18:30:03 -0400

Personally speaking.. E3-28yrs old... I've seen some e5s ranging from 23-26 age group that handle soldiers way better then what above ranks do... What happen to give respect and you get back the same?? (And not saying to be a soft ass/kitty) If I'm staying here at this unit for the next year+ doesn't first impression count about your leaders? In the end.. Some ranks get power hungry and think talking to anyone as the please is ok.. And as below ranked.. You have to stand there and eat it...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 7:06 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 19:06:09 -0400

I really don't have a problem with COL and above, CSM/SGM, and CW5 having reserved spots at the PX/Commissary....but that's about the extent of it for me.

Response by SFC Emerson "Zeus" Hazzard made Apr 6 at 2015 7:40 PM

SFC Emerson "Zeus" Hazzard — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 19:40:43 -0400

"Rankism" was institutionalized when the military instituted fraternization policies. When has separate but unequal ever been good policy? We can fight and die together but we cannot have a beer together? More than "rankism" the military has "placeism". Stay in your place. If you are not one of us your opinion does not count. If you are not one of us you do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. As a level II Master Resilience Trainer I submit that this artificial separation is part of the root cause of many of the military's problems such as suicide, homicide and sexual assault. You cannot treat entire groups of people like second class citizens and then expect them to share their deepest darkest secrets. I seriously doubt that the average slave had much to share with his plantation owner. The Military fraternization policy should be an affront to any leader with integrity. I have never used my grade or position to obtain pleasure, profit or personal safety. I do not need a fraternization policy protecting my subordinates from me or me from them. That artificial separation is why many catastrophic events occur right under the noses of command. If you and your subordinates do not have the integrity to share a beer or a pool together then how can you trust each other with marital problems., financial problems, PTSD or even to discuss an STD. The answer is you cannot and rankism, placeism or what ever name you want to hang on it is at the root of a myriad of issues our organization suffers from today. "and that is the world according to SFC. Hazzard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 8:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:55:20 -0400

You should see how AGR's treat M-Day Soldiers. just sayin'

Response by SFC Don Ward made Apr 6 at 2015 9:21 PM

SFC Don Ward — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:21:04 -0400

I see the tatoo policy as caving for convienience. Does anyone remember part of the reason for the original change was a command attitude that allowed a soldier to have the F-bomb tatooed visibly on his neck? And no one thought it was a bad thing? I can see more of this on the horizon

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 6 at 2015 9:53 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:53:33 -0400

Is making a 2LT salute a 1LT a form of Rankism?

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 10:16 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:16:56 -0400

i know ive seen it. as a PV2 ive heard my buddies look at PFC's like they are all assholes abusing that small difference in rank where as everyone expects SPC to know everything, even though some of them just got into the army and got their rank because of college.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 10:41 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:41:48 -0400

I had 11 years in and was an E-6 before being commissioned. My first Air Force unit was a 900 person Security Police Group. I was treated differently than most 2Lt's because I was 31 years old and most knew or assumed I was prior service. The only one that treated me like dirt was this Colonel we had as a commander but he treated all his officers like that for some reason, even his majors. I did feel sorry for the way most of the new 2Lt's were treated some of which was deserved but most wasn't deserved.

Response by SSgt Kristian Montanez made Apr 6 at 2015 10:55 PM

SSgt Kristian Montanez — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:55:19 -0400

Heck its written into the UCMJ. Its all on how you play the game.

Response by PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole made Apr 6 at 2015 11:20 PM

PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 23:20:10 -0400

I was in DEP at 17, boot camp at 18, E-1 out of boot camp. Let's just say I was on everyone's agenda all day every day. I was blessed with hell-of-a squad leader that took care of me.

Response by LCDR Rick Diaz made Apr 6 at 2015 11:43 PM

LCDR Rick Diaz — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 23:43:48 -0400

That is what rank is for...I offer five words:
Prove Yourself
Do your time

Response by Maj Philip Povolish made Apr 6 at 2015 11:57 PM

Maj Philip Povolish — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 23:57:07 -0400

Cry me a river...wahhhh, I want to park closer. Shut...up. GOs, 0-6s, CMSGTs, Quarterly winners all deserve privileges. You want respect, then go earn it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 1:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 01:34:04 -0400

I believe that it make sense when It comes to soldiers brand new to the army. Soldiers with less experience are bound to make more mistakes than those who already know their place and duty.

Response by Cpl Jeff Buckman made Apr 7 at 2015 1:39 AM

Cpl Jeff Buckman — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 01:39:14 -0400

Dear God yes there is big-time I was a LCpl for a while because my MOS was notoriously hard to rank up in I was 23 and they were treating me like I was 10 because of my rank. What really missed me off is when younger Marines in the easy MOS like radio... if you had a pulse you got a promotion, I got in a few verbal battles while remaining respectful over that one.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 2:16 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 02:16:28 -0400

I believe the term is being misapplied in this question.

Rankism is a relative new word invented in the late 90s and made into a career by Robert Fuller. It falls along the lines of classism, elitism, bullying, abuse of power, alpha/omega, condescending, patronizing, "I'm better than you -ism", etc, etc, etc.... and has little to do with "rank" as defined by the military. Rankism is a more popular invention than the failing invention of "condescendism", but it is in the same ballpark.

According to Robert Fuller: "Rankism is a collective name for the various ways power can be abused in the context of a rank difference."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-fuller/rankism-vs-the-golden-rule_b_3186821.html
Examples of rankism (some may overlap):
() Illegitimate uses of legitimate rank (e.g., a boss extorting money or sex from an employee)
() The creation or use of social hierarchies that condone degradation and exploitation (e.g., the social construct of white superiority and supremacy, the caste system)
() Damaging or degrading assertions of rank (e.g., hate crimes, sexual harassment, child abuse)
() Actions or social arrangements that violate the principle of equal dignity (e.g., racial segregation, lack of the franchise)
() Putting others down; disempowering them (name-calling or obfuscation by elites)
() Using the power inherent in rank to strengthen the hold on a senior position or otherwise advantage incumbents (e.g., office-holders exploiting the advantages of incumbency to insure retention of rank; life-time appointments that leave tenured teachers, professors, judges, and clerics virtually unaccountable.
() Self-service as contrasted with serving the avowed purpose of the organization (e.g., executives awarding themselves bonuses not on the basis of performance, but simply by virtue of their power to get away with doing so)
() Using the power of rank not to empower others, but to promote, enrich, or empower oneself (e.g., predatory lending)

Rankism vs. The Golden Rule

Many insist that man's predatory practices are undiminished and ineradicable. But an opposing trend is becoming visible. While admitting that "the arc of the moral universe is long," Martin Luther King Jr. believed that "it bends toward justice."

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 2:40 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 02:40:26 -0400

So you are asserting that the SMA is abusing his power by modifying the tatto policy?

How is the new tattoo policy is a negative form of discrimination?

I think you are confusing subject that have nothing to do with "rankism".

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 8:24 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 08:24:46 -0400

"Shut up, boot. You don't rate." Every Marine's fleet experience. Damn right there's a hierarchy.

Response by SSgt Clifton Hargus made Apr 7 at 2015 8:49 AM

SSgt Clifton Hargus — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 08:49:52 -0400

I was a CH-46E crew chief in the Marines. On the helicopter, there was a seat right by the main cabin door that was called the troop commander's seat in most helicopter diagrams. But, anyone who has ever flown on one of those helicopters knows that seat is for the crew chief. Well, I came face to face with an experience of some fresh LT coming up and saying to me, "that's my seat." I laughed and pointed back to the troop seats. He insisted again. I then poked my head into the cockpit after which my LtCol poked his head and and yelled, "Sit Down!" One of the funniest things I ever saw.

They're not all that way, but I think a lot of these junior officers think that they are hot stuff simply because they have brass on their collars.

Response by SFC Thomas Chappell made Apr 7 at 2015 10:00 AM

SFC Thomas Chappell — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:00:54 -0400

There absolutely are rankisms. It has always been this way. The difference now is we have more whiners and less disciplined Soldiers. When I started off as a dumb Private I looked at it as a chance to distinguish myself from the stereotype. 15 years later I medically retired as a SFC that was well respected by my Soldiers, peers, and senior leadership. Take the politics and other issues out of the military and remember that service members are our nations protectors and not babysitters.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 10:08 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:08:04 -0400

I think it has to do with how the NCO or officer view in their mind, like a total mind set. Like a SSG could be closed minded and be stricted about stuff, or like SMA Dailey have an open mind and listen to the needs of the lower ranked. So to me sir, it just depends on how the person itself views stuff in their mind

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Apr 7 at 2015 10:27 AM

CPO Greg Frazho — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:27:38 -0400

Sometimes, yes. As the saying goes, rank has its privileges. That's as old as warfare itself. By the same token, pigeonholing people just because of pay grade, just because of MOS, etc., is equally as archaic.

My mantra to senior NCOs is this: ALL NCOs, E-4 or E-5 and above, depending on the branch of service, need to be enforcing standards, not just the top one or two pay grades. That frees up the senior cadre to really zero in on overarching problems like retention, quality of life, fitness and, dare I say it, MORALE, instead of nickel-and-diming people to death on otherwise minor infractions.

Yeah, it sucks being the new guy. Hell, it can really suck being the guy that isn't even in the ground forces, but is there anyway. I know that gig well. But if we take the positive attitude of 'I'm here to learn, I'm here to be value-added, I'm here to do what I can', it's amazing what we can accomplish. As Colin Powell once said famously, "Perpetual optimism is its own force-multiplier."

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Apr 7 at 2015 8:01 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 20:01:11 -0400

A new and made-up concept, "rank-ism." Discrimination based on rank? What ever happened to different responsibility, authority, privileges and burdens.

We "discriminate" every day - "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another" according to the dictionary. That is good discrimination, what we are all supposed to do. To suggest that this is "bad discrimination" - e.g., unlawful, like discrimination based on race, color, creed, national origin - well, let's just say that the Supreme Court has not yet declared "lower in rank" a protected class.

Sounds pretty "entitled" to me!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 9:22 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 21:22:08 -0400

The Air Force, and I'm assuming all other branches of the military, has an Enlisted Force Structure which specifically states that E-1's - E-3's responsibilities are to learn how to military. It also dictates that the ranks above them are tasked to help them learn how to military correctly.
Don't take it personally.

Perceptions of disconnections don't make it the truth.

I'm not going to answer for the awesome parking spaces at the BX/chow hall/base gym. If you're hurt that the base commander has an awesome parking spot all the time then you don't have enough to worry about and should reevaluate your life.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 2:05 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 02:05:58 -0400

The only ranks I've ever seen discriminated against are E1-3 (including SPC) and Butter Bars as well as 1stLt....other than that I don't know what your talking about. It's it's not in the FM it didn't happen.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 9:46 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 09:46:56 -0400

All the time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 10:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:12:24 -0400

The Army is designed to function in this way, which is why we wear uniforms. It doesn't stop at rank either, it also includes badges, tabs, unit patches, and even haircuts. We are all trained from the beginning to make a five second assessment of who we are dealing with so that proper customs and courtesies can be extended.

However in a slightly different direction, I have noticed that a lot of field grade officers do things they know are against regulation and policy because they know they won't be corrected. Most of the time the decisions they make are based on common sense. I only wonder that if they have enough rank to break policies, do they have enough rank to change policies?

Response by MSgt Steve Miller made Apr 8 at 2015 12:12 PM

MSgt Steve Miller — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:12:49 -0400

When I decided to retire I went to several seminars for outbound service members. I can remember a seminar leader telling us to treat everyone in a company from the janitor to the CEO with the same respect. Not just because it’s the right thing to do, but the janitor for the company might have been working there for the past 20 years, and maybe even be a trusted council of the CEO. Best way to look stupid is to treat others as if they are stupid, and you just might lose your job for such behavior.

Perhaps we are all guilty of grouping at one point or the other in our lives. I’m honest enough to admit guilt in this area as a young NCO. Its one of the areas that I wish I was smarter in sooner.

Do we still group without realizing it?

Are we to some extent all victims of our environment?

Are we to busy in our daily lives to act as our own Human Resources Manager?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 12:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:22:53 -0400

There absolutely is an issue. There are the enlisted that feel officers play that game and vise versa. I have seen it happen time and time again.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 1:49 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:49:04 -0400

Yes, rankism is real. I think part of it is that service members are told rank stereotypes since they get in and if they see someone match that stereotype it becomes true. I know when I went to basic and AIT most of the examples you gave were told to me. Then I actually some leaders doing it, especially the CSMs yelling about grass and uniforms. The idea that all CSMs do it was kind of burned into my brain then. I can't help but think every time a CSM is around that he is going to watch me close to see if I am doing something wrong.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Apr 8 at 2015 3:43 PM

SGT Richard H. — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 15:43:44 -0400

I think more so socially than professionally. Professionally, you are bound to have groups based on rank. Heck, you're supposed to. It's the same way outside of the Military. Ditch diggers don't go to management meetings because they don't do management functions. On the social side, the Military has (or had) things like Officer's Clubs that would never fly on the outside....can you imagine going downtown and seeing a club that is "management only"?

Response by Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 4:06 PM

Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 16:06:08 -0400

I think it does because when a CSM got caught wearing an unauthorized/unearned ranger tab he had criminal charges against where as a LTC had the same problem but was just removed from his position but kept rank and pay grade. The CSM had gotten demoted and lowered in his pay.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 4:21 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 16:21:44 -0400

I've never heard the term "rankism". But, I do know the term "do what your rank can handle".
I'd say it exists. You see it at MacDill due to the heavy concentration of officers that two major commands bring. Last time I stopped into the dental clinic in the hospital, there was a brig gen inspection while I was in the lobby, and also a maj general that came into the waiting room. The responses of the staff was far different to them than it was to me (not that I blame them). I'd guess it goes on in the GS rated spectrum as well.

It's really no different than business. I used to see Dieter Zetsche (chairman of mercedes) at work before I was in the military. The guy wouldn't allow the underlings to go in the elevator with him. He had a limousine that sat outside the entrance all day waiting for him as well.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 5:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 17:23:51 -0400

In the Army realm, I believe the ones who get it the worst, as far as assumptions go, are 2LTs. It's assumed that Privates are fairly inexperienced. But usually, when a butter bar walks in, we KNOW he has no clue what's going on, but is forced to act like he or she does.

Even though I know better, when I see a single gold bar, my brain goes, "Here we go".

Response by SFC Martin Applegate made Apr 9 at 2015 10:38 AM

SFC Martin Applegate — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:38:30 -0400

I saw it all the time in my career but what really bothered me was when I retired. I had a 20 year career in an Intelligence MOS and always maxed my PT Test, excelled in my job and did additional things like Air Assault and Drill Sergeant to stand above as much as I could. During my career I received two Meritorious Service Medals and wa s very proud of them. Both were awarded for my everyday duties over my three year tour. When I retired I expected to get a nice award after 20 years of service that was commensurate with my duty over that period and was the culmination of many years of hard work. I was put in for a Silver Star and was told because I was an enlisted person, those types of awards were not for me but saved for Officers. No other way to say it but utter bullshit. I got a third Meritorius Service Medal, yeah....

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 1:04 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:04:06 -0400

I'm reading through some of these responses, and I must say, a lot of people are quick to judge a butter bar. I love the people that see me out in ACU or God forbid ASUs and assume I'm a case of stolen valor. There are some junior officers that have extensive enlisted or NCO experience. Personally, I've been in for over 12 years, and reached SSG prior to commissioning. So I'd say I'm well versed in the role and responsibilities of an infantryman. I personally hate the stereotypes, because while they may apply to 90%, God help the poor E4 that lumps me in as 'just another ignorant officer'

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 9 at 2015 2:47 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 14:47:48 -0400

I have seen parking spots that said "spouse of a deployed service member"and I thought that was just awesome.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 9 at 2015 2:54 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 14:54:44 -0400

Rankism, as seen from our British cousins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rObSWkQA7og

Monty Python - Meaning of Life

Bitten by a...? Good old days ;-)

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 10:51 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:51:37 -0400

Of course there is....but it occurs at all ranks.....junior enlisted protect each other as much as senior enlisted do.......the only difference is the more rank you have usually means the more "help" you can give.

Now if you want to discuss the legality of this "help" that's a whole other topic.

I've seen everything from covering a shift for someone, without the boss being notified, to taking your sweet as time getting a Command Directed order for a BAC.....are they both wrong...probably....are they both illegal...maybe, but burden of proof would be tough....does it happen at all ranks and positions.....yes. It's the nature of the solider to help his fellow solider when he can.....most good soldiers will not "help" if there are UCMJ type things going on....but we all know that some do.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Apr 10 at 2015 11:50 AM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 11:50:43 -0400

I recon it's no different than a manager or senior worker in charge at a civilian job. You have good ones and are happy at work. You have an AH and working there is miserable. Same way in the military. Seems if you can get an understanding going then you reup... if not reassigned... or hit them so they avoid you after you get released or an article 15. But your right some people look like they need to be smacked back to reality.... and some people look at you like they wanna smack you for no good reason. That's why bayonet training is essential. Be ready duck block and weave at all times in or out of uniform... just don't get angry and keep smiling

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 2:02 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:02:16 -0400

I have examples, but I'm just going to say yes it happens. It would sound like I'm complaining if I went into detail on my examples. I've been treated like I'm not responsible, incompetent and an idiot, and my opinion ignored (even when the NCO next to me repeated what I said and had it accepted) based on being an A1C.

Response by SP5 Jose Achille made Apr 11 at 2015 3:16 PM

SP5 Jose Achille — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:16:36 -0400

Sergeant achille

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Apr 12 at 2015 11:21 AM

SFC Jason Porter — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:21:04 -0400

It's not discrimination! It's called being a newbie! 2Lts and new E-4s and below have to prove themselves just the way it is. But then again I am retired and old school. : )

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 12 at 2015 1:37 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:37:23 -0400

You can have assumptions, but I always treated everyone with dignity and respect. Unfortunately some folks don't believe in this approach, and some assumptions become true.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 4:19 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:19:20 -0400

Rankism happens on a daily basis. Privates are automatically thought of as less intelligent because we don't have the rank. It's not the fault of anyone in particular, I think it's a stereotype like any other. There are times though where the opinions and perspectives of lower enlisted need to be heard. When they're not, it is not the fault of the Army or anything besides the current chain of command.

Response by SGT LaRonda Coffie made Apr 13 at 2015 5:57 PM

SGT LaRonda Coffie — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:57:02 -0400

Of course, it happens all the time; as it was stated in a previous comment; it also happens in the civilian world too. I went into the Army as a 25 year old private (blank collar/fuzzy chest depending on who you ask). I constantly had to deal with the pre-conceived notion that I didn't know anything regardless of the fact that I had held several jobs prior to the Army and and also took some college classes (decided to join to reap the benefits of TA/GI bill as well as to pay down some debt because of my previous college experience).

Fortunately enough, I ended up with some great NCO's/officers that looked at my maturity level as well as my former background and challenged me based on that and not just my rank.

It would behoove any leader to look at the depth chart of their units and recognize the talent and experience that their soldiers have and staff accordingly.

P.S. To all the junior soldiers out there, make sure to respect the rank that a person holds, but don't allow someone to intimidate you with it either. I'm not saying to 'check up' on someone on some nonsense, but don't allow someone to make you do something unethical just because they hold a hhigher rank. If someone is trying to get you to do something wrong, tell your first line supervisor (or another person you trust) and stand your ground. If you're right, It will work out for you. I've dealt with situations in which a higher ranking person had tried to get me to do something unethical; I stood my ground, and they got in trouble, not me.

Quartermasters: in God we trust; all others must sign.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 12:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:37:56 -0400

I dont like being hot. Do you think if enough of us cry we could come to work in blue jeans and a whith T-shirt like civ do. It worked with tatts

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 1:08 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:08:09 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member from who would you get an On Spot Correction better, from a PFC or from a MSG? All he way around, who would you correct first, a PV2 or MAJ? I think there's rankism everywhere, always is going to be but, it is part of the system, if not, there wouldn't be Ranks at all, not?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 2:43 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:43:57 -0400

Yes rank comes with privileges. Just look at deployment awards. Soldiers out in the funk get arcoms while people back in Disney land aka VBC iraq Get BSMs. A senior nco or any officer makes has a ND, or sleeps with a lower enlisted gets a slap on the wrist while pvt joe gets art 15 and chapter out of the military. Ole 1sgt sanders did that lost his Dimond and was moved. So yes rank comes with privileges.

Response by TSgt Thomas Monaghan made Apr 18 at 2015 10:45 AM

TSgt Thomas Monaghan — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:45:40 -0400

Absolutely among the officers I don't think it's so prevalent in the NCO corps

Response by SFC John Perry made Apr 18 at 2015 11:38 AM

SFC John Perry — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:38:19 -0400

Yes

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 6:15 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 06:15:55 -0400

Yes of cource lol

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 7:04 PM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 19:04:49 -0400

Hell ya there is ... I see it almost everyday a bmsn can get away with almost murder but the moment a undes Sn tries it they get yell at or sent up. It's shitty but the way navy works.

Response by SGT John Little made Apr 22 at 2015 8:48 PM

SGT John Little — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:48:26 -0400

as my first supervisor told me don't worry about others above you or below you.... Take care of those below you and support the ones above. Listen and learn, teach and be taught. every thing else will follow

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 3:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:41:56 -0400

I think it goes both ways, where the higher ranks don't associate with the lowers, but neither do some of them try to meet with the highers unless it is within their section. Many years ago, the unit I was with held a Dining-Out for E-7 and above. I went, but was not happy. The first unit I was ever with, when we held a Dining-In/Out the lower enlisted were encouraged to attend. I argued that how were we supposed to show the younger how to have fun with the superiors if we exclude them from such events. Being a Reserve soldier, I never felt like I wanted my rank to intimidate my subordinates. I cultivated an atmosphere in my sections where my workers were as much my friends as they were my soldiers. Teaching and respecting soldiers from day one puts "rankism' out the window. There will be times to draw the line between friend and superior, but both have to know that the line exists.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 4:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:19:00 -0400

It's not called "rank-ism", it's just called rank... Higher rank has better privileges, pay, housing, etc... It's an incentive. If you don't like how you get treated, how much you're paid, where you live or where you have to park then spend some of that energy you are using to complain about it to go out and PT, go to the board and get yourself promoted.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 4:55 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:55:28 -0400

Sir, of course there is, as we have to approach a situation based on appearance first, in most cases. One thing I've lived by, you get a certain treatment as a Hunan being, you receive a certain level of treatment based on your insignia, the rest you have to earn based on how you execute your Mission as a Sailor (Soldier in this case).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 9:08 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 21:08:24 -0400

It's the army! Obviously people are judged based on rank, and there is nothing wrong with that. We work in a system that assumptions must be made in order to expedite process and operations, but what do aim to make all assumptions? Facts, once we get to know some one then this "Rankism" is mitigated. Is Rankism an EO or IG issue?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 9:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 21:32:28 -0400

As human beings, we make assumptions based on limited knowledge all the time. It helps us stay alive in many cases. The guy walking down the dark street at night that looks like he might be trouble that causes you to cross to the other side of the road. Sure, you discriminated against him based on an assumption, but he could have been the bad news that you thought he was.

I was a Private and then a Specialist and eventually became a Corporal (points were maxed out and no college). When I was a Private, I got treated like a Private, even though I just missed out getting into West Point out of High School, had a very high GT score, and could have easily taken the ROTC route had I chosen to. Boo Hoo that a Private got treated like they were new. Why, because Privates are new. Who cares what you knew before you joined the Army, if you're a Private you're either new or you screwed up. Mostly Privates are new. So, if 90+ percent of Privates are new guys, then it makes sense to think that they're new and treat them as such. You don't have to be disrespectful, but treating the new guy like he's new isn't a bad thing.

I eventually made it into West Point. I walked in as a two-time combat veteran with a rack of ribbons and two years of NCO experience and I became a "New Cadet" which was actually worse than being a Private. 95+ percent of New Cadets were new, so they all got treated like they were new. I clearly wasn't but I didn't boo hoo about it, I just did my job and eventually I grew out of being new.

After four more years (about 8 years time since enlisting), I graduated and became a 2LT. Once again, I got treated like I was new (since probably 85+ percent of 2LTs are new).

In all of those cases, it doesn't take long for the people you work with to realize whether you fit in below, on par, or above whatever group you're in. For those people that don't know you, does it really matter that much what they think? I have chosen not to worry about those folks because honestly an opinion someone has based on looking at your collar should mean less than the opinion someone has of you based on your proven performance (or lack thereof).

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 12:58 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 00:58:20 -0400

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way in the world that any LT should be complaining about fair treatment from NCOs or enlisted members. You are the LT, you have the position of power. If you expect to be treated like a "bro" merely because you outrank everyone in the room - you set yourself up for the disappointment. As far as anyone is concerned, a 2Lt has as much experience as a Pvt. The only advantage of a 2Lt over a Pvt (or in my case Amn) is that they have the added education. That's great and all, but I haven't met a non-prior 2Lt yet that didn't have an over-inflated ego because they have a piece of paper on their wall.

Meanwhile, the SQL cluster hasn't replicated in a 12 hours and the transaction log is full. Oh, you need me to explain what a cluster is and how the transaction log has fubar'd the entire web application in a 2-hr lecture before you'll authorize a fix (don't even get me started about how the retiree-priority civilian hire without a clue, who knocked a fully qualified former Microsoft contractor out of a job, misconfigured the SQL server not to truncate the transaction log in the first place)? Please stand aside a moment while the rest of us get work done.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 24 at 2015 8:54 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:54:11 -0400

I refuse to answer this question because it was started by a Lieutenant.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 11:26 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:26:08 -0400

Hell yea there is.... Specialist Mafia

Response by PO2 Shannon Walcott-Cluphf made Apr 24 at 2015 8:28 PM

PO2 Shannon Walcott-Cluphf — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 20:28:17 -0400

Duh, of course there is but its not something the government is interested in investigating. I would hope military of any rank would hold themselves to a higher, more intelligent level *sarcasm*

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 6:59 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 18:59:29 -0400

I believe that its the opposite, higher ranked Soldiers get away with stuff. For instance a high rank officers not doing pre jump. Also High ranking Soldiers getting off easy during court-martial either no sentencing and or just retiring. And what I see through news and Army Times Officers getting away with things when Enlisted Soldier get hammered on. Yes the military picks at new privates and LTs. But it's definitely not like it use to be with hazing and hurting them. Everyone learn that quickly.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Apr 25 at 2015 8:03 PM

SSG John Jensen — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:03:48 -0400

Nat'l Guard Bde HQs - often referred to myself as a Pvt/E6 or the designated scapegoat 'cause officers don't make mistakes, got chewed out by a Maj for his mistake, my response was straight timeline: these were my instructions, this is what I did, the Maj said "don't let it happen again!", the S-2 Maj said "my god SSG Jensen, I wish I could do that like you did", Officer privilege all over the place, drug testing for everybody and all of the officers said "we're too busy", and none of them did it. MOPP trng in the HQs and the staff says "go away we're too busy for that. and on, and on, and on

Response by SSG John Jensen made Apr 25 at 2015 8:10 PM

SSG John Jensen — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:10:01 -0400

"Oh, what a lovely War" 1960's English Musical about WWI, all of the songs were soldier songs or music hall songs, at least one of the screen writers was enlisted, the insults of the General Staff disconnect from life in the trenches, are just classic

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 9:07 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 09:07:36 -0400

A large part of this is just the way the Army works. PFCs do PFC work and get treated like PFCs. The same for 2LTs, SFCs, CSMs, and BGs. Problems usually arise when people think they know better than those above them and try to work outside the system. It's the same when leaders think they can do better work than those under them, and stop doing their job (supervising, managing, planning) to take over from trained and capable workers.

If you're the oldest most experienced PFC/2LT, don't buck the system. Be a leader among your peers, be your leaders' "trusted agent" that can make things happen. Don't ask for exceptions to the rules that apply to your rank because you're older or more educated.

Lastly, a learning point. The SMA didn't change the tattoo policy. He can recommend changes to policies and regulations but the signatures the make those changes are Chief of Staff and Sec. Army. It may seem like semantics, but it's the perfect example of what I'm talking about above; the senior leaders stay in their lane and fill their roles. We should do the same.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 2:17 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:17:09 -0400

Sure it happens, but I never thought of it as a big deal. I'm supposed to have the view of concrete right in front of my face and do all the crap details. I do them all to the best of my ability and with whatever tools I have at my disposal, and I don't complain about it either because that's military life. There's no hard feelings behind any of it. Soldiers at my grade complain about this too much.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 3:22 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 03:22:15 -0400

In one word...yes.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Jan 7 at 2016 5:21 PM

1LT Aaron Barr — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:21:21 -0500

Of course they do. 'You can't spell 'lost' without LT' was one of my personal favorites. That said, it's not like there's no truth to these. After all, I never got lost as a 2LT and am the exception that proves the rule.

Response by SPC Stacey Lowell made Jan 7 at 2016 5:57 PM

SPC Stacey Lowell — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:57:20 -0500

Back in the Post Vietnam era of the Army, especially in the 1980s, Rankism was prevalent back in the day. I for one being a lowly E-3/E-4 in Berlin, really didn't mind so much as long as I was doing my job and having a good, professional attitude. As long as I knew I was trying not to be a jackass and an arrogant SOB just because I wore Class A's and BDU's. However, I was PCS's to Fort Polk, Louisiana and then to Panama or Operation Just Cause, which was fine. It was a 96 hour combat operation and we were back at the S-3 Shop at Battalion HQ at Fort Polk in no time. I ran into an SSG just fresh off of recruiter status jack me up side the wall in the office from which I worked and verbally and sexually assault me. I broke his jaw in two places and then I found my self in four point restraints at Baynes-Jones ACH. 6 months later, I was medically discharged from the service and the SSG was sent to work at Brigade PAC Center. It was the end of my career; I had a really bad case of PTSD for sometime to the pointg that I could not hold a job for any length of time. It is a pity because I felt that I had been doing a good job in the service and I had never been busted for any violations. There are people in the service who no doubt feel entitled to power and position once they attain a degree of leadership responsibilities and then the forget who they are and take it out on folks with a lesser rank then they have. By and large, though, I have worked with some of the finest people to ever wear the uniform and have been treated extremely well. Sometimes there are just borrn assholes in every crowd.

Response by PO2 Chad Ertelt made Jan 7 at 2016 11:03 PM

PO2 Chad Ertelt — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:03:51 -0500

In the Navy Chiefs often get separated in the enlisted level, but all I can say is RHIP. If you are enlisted you get the easy going, the people who have served longer, done the job for more than a year or two do know more than your dumbass. If you are hot shit, you will get there, until then shut up and listen.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 11:40 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:40:36 -0500

I always find it interesting that we often treat privates and some specialists like children despite the fact that almost all of them are adults legally (except the few who do split option in HS).

Response by SFC Martin Applegate made Jan 14 at 2016 11:44 AM

SFC Martin Applegate — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 11:44:06 -0500

I was an SFC when I retired in 2001. I had performed well in my career and always maxed the PT Test and met every requirement for my MOS, Air Assault School, PLDC, BNCOC, ANCOC, Drill Sergeant School and advanced MOS Specific courses. I worked hard and had two Defense Meritorious Achievement Medals as a Drill Sergeant and Security interviewer at a MEPS but when it came time for my Retirement Award after 20 years of service, my supervisors put me in for a Legion of Merit. It was downgraded to a Defense Meritorious Achievement Medal like the two I already had for three year tours and i was told only Major and above can get Legion of Merit awards. Now you tell me is that Rank ism or what?

Response by Sgt Scott McCleland made Apr 30 at 2018 5:08 PM

Sgt Scott McCleland — Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:08:05 -0400

This is a set up question, when people have earned the experience then the respect shows..while at TECH school at Chanute, my friend was a E-3 because of college, i was an E2 because prior Army Guard....one day he was given command of the sqn to march back to our barrack, up until then he had only marched about 20 people, this day was more like 160 plus....since he outraked me, he asked me if i could do it..."if i felt good about it ,because he sure didnt", i said yes took command and marched the Sqn back, we also ran into the base CO, i ordered eyes left saluted all while making a left turn then a right turn during the process...it was because of experience and self confidence the ARMY gave me...by the way the General called the SQN with high praise on the way we sounded and looked, the CADRE were impressed, thats how you earn the respect of the higher ups...STOP CRYING ABOUT STUPID STUFF AND DEFEND OUR COUNTRY!

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Apr 30 at 2018 5:30 PM

PFC Elijah Rose — Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:30:04 -0400

There's certainly rank based favortism in IET. And many people think of anyone below them as a fool and anyone above them as a jerk. But the real sourse of rankism is that typically if there is a he-said-he-said situation the person with the higher rank will be believed. Although one must also account for social rank, as in where one stands among peers. Which basically means that popularity allows for special privileges, and notoriety equals non-judicial persecution.

In short, everyone must be a bully to survive in a army of bullies.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Apr 30 at 2018 5:57 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:57:27 -0400

Whenever someone brings up rankism, the word "snowflake" runs through my head.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made May 1 at 2018 3:27 PM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Tue, 01 May 2018 15:27:06 -0400

I think the reason we have certain ranks/grades grouped is due to past history. However i do remember when i was young Soldier thinking that i would be able to change things wheni got up the rank ladder. However i found out very fast that the more rank means more responsibility and more work. When you get to certain possition you do deserve certain perks, but to get to that position one must pay ones dues. In other words you work hard in order to succeed in anything that you do in life. The US military is no different.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2018 2:42 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 May 2018 14:42:47 -0400

And that's when you know it's time to hang it up..wow.

Response by CPL Brandon Kling made Jan 15 at 2019 10:40 AM

CPL Brandon Kling — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:40:23 -0500

I think there are rank stereotypes that most members of the military are expecting to face. Hell, I've been guilty of expecting a new Private to not know his ass from his elbow, or the incoming Sergeant Major to be a prick, and been proven wrong. It took me a bit, but I finally got over that kind prejudice, and waited to see what the new (insert rank) was like.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2019 12:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:41:38 -0500

Of course there will always be rankisms. Thats been the way it is since the dawn of time. Its just a matter of who it is.
Ive seen Specialists think there Gods gift to ththe infantry and always pulled the "I did my time" when something was to be done. That being said ive seen SSG busting there ass with Joe's when something needed to be done. It all comes down to who it is.

Personally my philosophy is to treat everyone the same ragardless of rank. I treat the 1st Sgt the same as the brand new Private. Everyone deserves respect until they lose it. Ive been called a "joe hugger" since I don't participate in childish stuff when a new guy comes in and they make him do dumb stuff. Now they are able to come to me when they got problems.

Rank shouldnt have discrimination. But it does happen and I can see why. It just depends on the person

Response by SSgt Gerald Davis Jr made Jan 16 at 2019 1:14 PM

SSgt Gerald Davis Jr — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 13:14:02 -0500

RHIP

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 16 at 2019 2:27 PM

CPT William Jones — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:27:02 -0500

Once again some people forget no NCO in the military makes policy. It requires an officers signature on document. However lots of items of policy start with enlisted people of all grades. The higher the grade the more influence he has. E8 and E9 have lots of influence but do not make policy.

Response by SFC Johnny Hodges made Jan 16 at 2019 2:34 PM

SFC Johnny Hodges — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:34:51 -0500

I would just tell the Lt to sit in his chair and I would get him promoted. They always thanked me.

Response by MAJ J Scott made Jan 16 at 2019 7:12 PM

MAJ J Scott — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:12:06 -0500

Of course there is rankism: everything from details, to awards, punishments, etc. How many times have we read about GOs getting busted for misconduct, and still retire with full pay/beneficts. If an E-7 did the same thing: reduction to E-1 with bad conduct discharge.

Response by LCpl Richard Brennan made Jan 16 at 2019 11:10 PM

LCpl Richard Brennan — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:10:02 -0500

Rank Has It’s Priveleges.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 8:52 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 08:52:45 -0500

And of course it's an LT asking this. As a general rule when a cherry officer or private shows up to a unit, we assume you're a moron because you are. Like 98/100. I was. Hands down Private Putnam was an idiot. Now when SSG Putnam shows up he's expected (and able) to grab the ball and run with it. So yes as you progress, rank does have it's privileges like being able to sign a memo instead of 1sg making you layout your TA50. Now when we get into designated parking spots at the PX... That's another story

Response by PO1 Raymond Sauter made Jan 17 at 2019 10:14 AM

PO1 Raymond Sauter — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:14:57 -0500

RHIP - Rank Has Its Privileges

Juniors like to quip this pithy little phrase but they neglect to recognize the responsibility that goes with the higher ranks like when he or she dismisses their subordinates and they have to go back to their desk for hours more of paper work that has been stacking up!

Or that they probably got a far more severe ass-chewing from higher up in the chain-of-command for your screw-up than what was actually meted out to you! I understood this first-hand when I put on first class and was immediately placed in charge as LPO of a training department over instructors and students! All the crap I had to deal with and I’m sure the LCPO was probably laughing his ass off (in a supportive, empathetic way of course)!

Senior officers and enlisted need to remember they were once a buck private/seaman recruit or “brown bar” and should help their subordinates to understand they will advance in rank over time and will become all too familiar with the responsibility that goes with their rank!

I think that reserved parking spot at the commissary hardly compensates for the added burden of responsibility!

Response by SGT Nathan Vitartas made Jan 17 at 2019 10:48 AM

SGT Nathan Vitartas — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:48:55 -0500

Rank has its previliges. I enjoyed being an NCO. Don't like something get promoted and change it. This article is written by a cry baby LT I bet he made the mistake of coming and trying to butt into NCO business demanding respect from people with more deployment time than his time in service. I bet his time is miserable because his NCOs aren't taking care of him. NCOs will make or break a officer.

Response by MAJ Michael Hoevelman made Jan 17 at 2019 11:15 AM

MAJ Michael Hoevelman — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:15:47 -0500

RHIP

Response by PO1 Michael Bruner made Jan 17 at 2019 12:09 PM

PO1 Michael Bruner — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 12:09:20 -0500

I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit to either rolling my eyes or snickering whenever a baby-faced ensign or 2nd lieutenant tried to make a suggestion or tried forcing their will on you by going off.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 17 at 2019 1:45 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:45:21 -0500

Yes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 7:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:51:22 -0500

Yes it does happen,like it or not. But stop with the ism to everything.

Response by 1SG Frank Walker made Jan 17 at 2019 8:48 PM

1SG Frank Walker — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 20:48:34 -0500

Way too many parking spots reserved by rank and not enough handicap parking at Macdill AFB commissary and BX. Enough said.

Response by MSgt Joseph Holness made Mar 16 at 2020 12:36 AM

MSgt Joseph Holness — Mon, 16 Mar 2020 00:36:38 -0400

It's also Real Prevalent in the VA system as well, regardless of their "Being Rank-Blind" claims.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Mar 30 at 2020 12:57 PM

1SG Ernest Stull — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:57:53 -0400

Yes their is a stereotype for young lieutenants that seem to think that you the PSG's are not trustworthy or they let them run the whole show and never learn anything. That is just my opinion. The platoon leader and the PSG's should be glued at the hip.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Sep 18 at 2020 2:39 PM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:39:58 -0400

Once as an interim Band CO (I had the rank of 1SG), we were going to play the National Anthem for a hockey game. Me and my senior NCOs were trying to figure out how to get the band on the ice without killing ourselves. I had a young lady just came back from BCT/AIT and her 1st drill with our band asked my if she could make a suggestion. I asked her, OK, what's your idea? She had the solution, I laughed because here was this brand new Soldier coming up with how to solve the problem when 4 of us, didn't see it. My response was, OK everyone you heard the lady, this is what we're doing! It worked very well too!! Some times a fresh set of eyes can see through problems more clearly.

Response by SGT Jay Holland made Nov 7 at 2020 7:54 AM

SGT Jay Holland — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 07:54:13 -0500

Of course there is a double standard with ranks. Many of the deployments I went on the award you were given was based on your rank. I was recommended for the Bronze Star and had it downgraded because I was only an E-5, even though I was doing the job of an E-6.

Response by SSG Frank J. made Apr 27 at 2021 12:57 PM

SSG Frank J. — Tue, 27 Apr 2021 12:57:04 -0400

Rankism becomes a real problem when it bleeds over to spouses. My wife (who has a Masters Degree) was snubbed by a 1SG's wife while assisting the CSM's wife with a project (I was a SPC at the time) Becaus of MY rank, the 1SG's wife went balistic. That didn't change when the CSM's wife spokie with her so my wife was "asked" to stop volunteering for the CSM's wife.

Response by SPC David Roberts made Aug 23 at 2021 7:39 PM

SPC David Roberts — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:39:00 -0400

While in service:
I never met a butterbar didn't need a clue unless he/she was prior service.
The only interactions I had with CSMs involved uniform or grass walking violations.
I was fairly useless as a PVT.

Response by SPC Theodore Reavis made Aug 25 at 2021 2:22 PM

SPC Theodore Reavis — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:22:27 -0400

I was in the Va Army National Guard and I the 1st Sgt didn't like you ur not getting promoted I pose to been had mine E-4 rank and they kept it hidden from me. I join the ROTC program and they was heated when I found out I can transfer training and still get paid I had to get out the service cause I spent 10 yrs and still a E-4 and the white soldiers was making E-5 before me and been there less we go to the field for training it's even worse the black soldiers are on the front line and kept the white soldiers in the back so yes its rankism in the service

Response by MSG James Brown made Jul 6 at 2023 9:59 PM

MSG James Brown — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 21:59:07 -0400

Let me enlighten y’all on something, all the things you do in the military is only good for the military these days because I was a 1sgt and I lived the life of both sides Active duty and Reserve and bust my ass to gain all ranks, yes I was the one that didn’t believe in rank had privilege because higher ranks did slot of mess but it just got covered up. I didn’t believe in having my own parking space because I’m a human just like anyone else. Yelp also I was the 1sgt that invited yelling ass CSM outside since they had so much to say what somebody didn’t do instead of saying “ thank you” for making things happen. My way of treating soldiers like people cause me to retire from the FBI over 32 years with honors and the military with honors cause you can treat people bad if you want but these days will come across their path again so people don’t let rank ruin your character or be a butt hole. I saw my 1sgt got shot in the chest at Ft Drum NY when I was a E4 only because he was yelling at this E5. What a sight to see. Every since that day my 1sgt said, “ soldier treat people the way you want yo be treated rank doesn’t cause you to be an ass hole.”