Should female Service Members be allowed to wear dresses to military balls?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 16:33:30 -0400

If female Soldiers are permitted to wear a formal dress at their unit military ball, shouldn't male Soldiers be allowed to wear a formal Tux. Or should there not be the option and require both male and female Soldiers to wear the ASU. I have seen it both ways. I don't mind female Soldiers wearing dresses, but the NCO in me says all Soldiers should be treated the same as much as possible.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2014 4:59 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 16:59:10 -0400

As long as I have the option to wear dress or uniform I am satisfied with the rule.

Yes, it would seem more appropriate to also provide the men equivalent options.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2014 6:34 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 18:34:37 -0400

I am torn on this issue too, but it is for personal reasons. My husband very much outranks me. I feel that my presence in uniform draws people to focus on that fact. I just want to be there as the spouse, not as CPT Wolfer. It was easy when I was active duty. I would show up at his TXARNG functions in a gown and just not mention my service. Now that I am in the Guard, and in the same unit, and everyone knows who I am, I cannot wear a gown because they require all military personnel to wear uniforms. I just turned in my SUTA. I will not attend at all rather than appear in uniform with my husband.

There are side events that my husband is directly invited to and I would be the +1. The other spouses will be there in their gowns and then there will be this random CPT wandering around. People would be wondering why I'm not handing out hors d'oeuvres. Still, I don't want an exception because then I would have to explain the exception and that would be worse.

It was better when we had a female BG and she always wore a gown (we actually showed up in the same gown once). Is that fair for guys? I don't know. Do guys want to pay for (or rent) a tuxedo? I want to wear a gown because I want the opportunity to get all dolled up (something I strictly believe has no place in uniform). I don't feel the same way in ASUs as I feel in a ball gown. Is that true for guys? I'm asking because it looks all the same to me (ASU/Tux).

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Jun 7 at 2014 6:49 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 18:49:54 -0400

If there is a ceremony and it is your unit ball you should be in uniform for that. Then if given the choice you can change after the ceremony. If you are going to a spouse's ball then you can go in either uniform or proper formal wear.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jun 7 at 2014 6:51 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 18:51:02 -0400

I asked CSM McCloud if we ladies could wear dresses to the last unit ball. He said no because Soldiers are Soldiers.

I replied with "well then CSM, why can't I go to Ranger School?"
*cricket*

NO! I'll wear a dress and bring a military date. He can wear the uniform.

Y'all have Ranger School, we have dresses lol. That's fair!

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 7 at 2014 9:45 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 21:45:06 -0400

SSG Jones, for me it is like this:

If you are a Male Service Member, you show up in Dress Uniform, and your female date (including spouses) should wear a formal (tasteful) dress.

If you are a Female Service Member, with Male Service Member date/husband, you have the choice of either formal (tasteful) dress or Dress Uniform.

If you are a Female Service Member, with civilian date, you should wear Dress Uniform (same as males).

We should be proud of service and take the opportunity to wear the Dress Uniform. Conversely, if a Female SM happens to be accompany a Male SM and wants the opportunity to "doll up" as they say, that Female SM should be afforded that opportunity, as they rarely occur.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jun 7 at 2014 9:45 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 21:45:29 -0400

Here's a thought: Why don't the men wear the dresses and the women wear the Tuxedos? Just an idea;-)

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 7 at 2014 10:05 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 22:05:29 -0400

It really is up to the Command. In my experience, Balls (being more informal militarily in nature) tended to require formal attire, with Dress Blues as an option. However, Dining-in and Dining-out are different and uniforms for military personnel was usually mandatory.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 1:06 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 01:06:04 -0400

I would love to go to the air force ball. Can Veterans go or is that a NO, NO?

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jun 8 at 2014 7:17 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:17:46 -0400

Ladies should be allowed to wear dresses unless they are in command or parallel enlisted positions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 10:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 22:58:31 -0400

At my first ball when I was an E4, I was told that E4 and below Soldiers can wear tuxs. I haven't heard anything about males wearing anything but class A's/ASUs to a ball, however I would love to wear a tux! :-)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 7:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:55:58 -0400

If the male or female is assigned to the unit holding the ball then they should be required to wear the uniform. You can't fight for equal rights and then pick and choose the ones you want to abide by.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Aug 26 at 2014 10:39 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:39:41 -0400

Ran into this many times over the years. My response has always been that, if you attend the ball/event as a soldier/member of the unit, you will wear a uniform. If you attend the ball/event as a spouse or date of a military member, you can wear civilian attire.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Aug 26 at 2014 10:56 AM

LTC Paul Heinlein — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:56:12 -0400

O.K. As a Soldier I would always wear my uniform as it is a right I have earned. I would also recommend all Soldiers (Service Members) wear their uniforms (why pay extra money when you already have the appropriate attire). Also, Balls, Dining Ins, etc. are for building comradeship, esprit de corps, and to honor our history, customs and courtesies. So again I recommend those that have earned the right to wear their uniforms.

Outside of that, the rational guy in me says....unless it is free and mandatory...if I'm paying for it and its on my time off....as long as i'm within the general guidelines for appropriate attire (i.e. Tux for male, etc)..then I'm good to go

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 10:59 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:59:10 -0400

I think the bigger concern is what is appropriate for a military ball. Too many times I have gone to a military ball and everyones all dolled up and there is one lady with her lady parts hanging out. Lady parts should be kept hidden lol. Not that a little modest cleavage is bad. But slits up to your lower parts and cleavage from mars. C'mon.

Not to mention color. Is bright ass pink appropriate for a military ball? In my opinion.. No. Keep the teenage clothing at home. Buy something made for adults.

Prime example, our military ball for ROTC we had a cadet show up with a coral dress that was made for a teenager. Saw so much boob I wanted to punch her in the face.

Also, how do we determine length? I think the word 'BALL' leans to a more ball gown... Gowns are normally long are they not?

Never ending issues.

There is always going to be that one male that doesnt want to wear his monkey suit, some female who would rather wear hers than put on a gown and then there are the goons that dont know how to dress conservatively for a military function.

Put your goods away... I dont need to see them.

Rant over.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 11:06 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:06:58 -0400

I am with you SSgt Gregory Guina. If it is a unit event and you are a unit member, male or female, you should appear for the program portion of the event in the uniform of the day as indicated in the invitation. You can always change for the social or dancing portion after the program is complete.
Funny thing about the term uniform - it means we all look the same. Hair, nails, etc should be in compliance with AR 670-1. Not just because you are in uniform, but because you are at a military event and conservative, tasteful appearance is the way to go anyway. I would tell my spouse to wear a more conservative dress as well, for the same reason. She will look fantastic no matter what her hemline is.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 11:46 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:46:38 -0400

My wife and I are both Soldiers.

Back in June, we attended the Army Birthday Ball. Both of us wore our uniform, because we were both representing the status as a Soldier.

Next month, we're going to the Army Intelligence Ball. This time, only I will be wearing the uniform, while she will be in a dress. The reason is because I am in the intelligence field, while she is not.

Since she's a 92Y (Supply Sergeant), if we ever went to a Army Logistics Ball (if there even is such a thing) she would go in uniform and I in a suit.

For us, it's a matter of who is representing Service for the occasion.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Sep 26 at 2014 10:43 PM

SGM Robin Johnson — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 22:43:33 -0400

I am coming really late to this discussion but I feel quite strongly about this issue. For military heritage events (i.e. Army Birthday Ball, Regimental Ball, Dining In) a uniform for all service members is appropriate because that is the point of the Ball. However, I feel differently for more socially oriented events (i.e. Winter Ball, Spring Ball, Dining Out, various unit events which are formal dress). For these events I would make a distinction between junior enlisted and junior officers and the senior NCOs and senior officers. My rationale is that the uniforms of men are designed to be somewhat akin to what a civilian man would wear to a formal event. Especially now that the service uniform is the blue uniform, it is very similar to a tuxedo when worn with the appropriate dress accoutrements. However, the women's service uniform is designed to be somewhat akin to what a civilian...MAN...would wear to a formal event. It is a business suit and in no way resembles anything a civilian woman would wear to any formal event. So the male Soldiers are comfortable in something that resembles what their male counterparts are wearing, while the female Soldiers are wearing short skirt business suits while their female counterparts are in long evening gowns. Is that truly equal treatment? To get to the military equivalent of an approximation of the female dress for a formal event you have to purchase the dress mess uniform, which costs over $400 dollars all told. I think that three courses of action are reasonable responses. The first is to allow all Soldiers to wear civilian clothing to primarily social events. The second is to allow female Soldiers to allow civilian clothing to primarily social events after explaining the rationale above to all Soldiers so they understand it is not preferential treatment, but evening the playing field since the uniforms are designed with a more male outlook in formal attire. The third is to allow junior enlisted and junior officers to wear civilian clothing and explain the rationale as above, and explain to senior enlisted and senior officers that, fair or not, it was time to invest in their careers by buying the dress uniform if they so desired, so they could set the example in professionalism.

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Nov 28 at 2014 3:11 PM

CW2 Stephen Pate — Fri, 28 Nov 2014 15:11:05 -0500

I think that there is a place for wearing of the dress uniforms during military functions but there is no reason units can't have a formal ball (wearing civilian attire) as well. We did this when I was stationed at fort Lee and it was a huge success.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Nov 29 at 2014 11:37 AM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Sat, 29 Nov 2014 11:37:59 -0500

I think if her date is military then she should be allowed to wear a dress. If she is going by her self or her date is a civilian then she should go in uniform

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 10:47 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:47:35 -0500

This is what I've found. People that allow dresses do so to increase total ticket sales because most women don't want to wear the military uniform. So you either a) break tradition and allow the uneven playing field and have more people at the function, or b) you tell them absolutely not but then no one shows up anyhow.

That's what I've personally seen. I had one unit that initially no gowns for unit members allowed, low ticket sales. Release to allow people to wear gowns, tickets sold.

Is it fair? Nope.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Dec 1 at 2014 2:34 PM

Maj Kim Patterson — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 14:34:39 -0500

When attending MY UNIT events, I wore my mess dress uniform, crumb catcher and all. It is difficult to find a uniform that feels good for a formal event but as part of the unit, it was my responsibility to support the event and show up properly attired in military style. When attending events with my military spouse, I appeared as a spouse, dressed in a beautiful, well-fitting floor length gown, tastefully cut (read that conservatively) and felt perfectly at ease, as well as feminine, pretty, comfortable (the gown fit to my small stature and I wasn't cut in half with aforementioned crumb catcher.) So in my eyes, I dressed properly for the events but I always looked forward to wearing the comfortable gown. As a footnote, I believe that a military function is not a place to wear a skimpy piece of "dress" and 4" spike heels. Wear something that protects and supports the honor and respect earned by us, the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 9:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Dec 2014 21:11:11 -0500

Wear the uniform is my opinion. It just looks more professional.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 7:32 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 07:32:39 -0500

I have asked this question many times as there have been more females in the combat arms units.

I noticed one response/argument early on in this discussion that is now void. Ranger school amongst many other combat arms duties are being opened to females. So using that logic all females should wear their uniforms to formal events.

That being said, my belief is that if it is your unit's event you should be in your uniform regardless of your gender. But if you are going to another unit's event as a guest by all means wear an appropriate gown. (see other comments on what is appropriate)

We would never entertain the thought of allowing a male Soldier to wear a tux to a unit event. So why is it even a question when it comes to females. We are amongst a time of change where opportunities are being opened to females because some CAN do just as good as males. Regardless, we all raised our hand and volunteered to serve and we should be proud to wear our uniforms. To demand to get to wear something else because your gender and you don't like how you look in a uniform, or whatever reason you have, is completely against what the military is doing of trying to progress and even things out.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2015 12:29 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 12:29:39 -0500

I need masculism, because I want to have the same cool perks as females.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2015 1:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 13:39:32 -0500

So long as it is equal for both sides, then units should be able to make the ball. Uniforms for both genders, or optional civilians for both genders.

Response by SPC(P) Samantha Moore made Jan 11 at 2015 10:53 PM

SPC(P) Samantha Moore — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 22:53:11 -0500

As much as I would prefer to wear a ball gown at times, it is only fair that the service member wears the service uniform. The last unit that I was in did not make it mandatory, however they also allowed for males to wear tuxedos, to be fair.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 8:56 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 08:56:29 -0500

Isn't there a skirt or dress option for the service/dress uniform? To me that sets the precedent that dresses are perfectly acceptable, assuming that command allows for formal civilian wear.

Response by SFC Royce Williams made Jan 13 at 2015 11:43 AM

SFC Royce Williams — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:43:30 -0500

No. If you are at your ball you should wear your uniform. However, if you are at another ball as a guest to another Soldier you should wear witch ever you want, whether it be uniform, gown, or tux.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 13 at 2015 1:09 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:09:14 -0500

Whatever happened to the Mess Uniform? There were male and female versions, and the latter included a long skirt. (Actually, I thought that the waistcoat was more flattering to women than to men.)

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jan 13 at 2015 3:57 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:57:23 -0500

I have seen it both ways and frankly I don't mind it either way. usually it is a "THEY" discussion and decision and either way it never makes everyone happy. I have had commands that have made events all civilian in the reverse case to avoid the issue, not so formal, but the formal is okay also.

The one thing I that did surprise me through all the issue, was the huge amount of tattoo's that Soldiers discovered during the social event due to the wear of the sometimes backless dress. It was always a topic of discussion for weeks AFTER the formal.

These days, most Soldiers avoid the formal with all the political correctness going on in my humble opinion. The ways of old where there was a very interesting GROG built for inebriation, performing deck landings, being crazy and letting off steam are gone it seems. The Esprit de Corps is usually individually tailored to the unit or post and participation driven on morale in the organization.

This morale is the issue with the dress and female Soldiers. Most youthful ones wish to dress it out, however it seems with rank and length of service others turn toward the professional side of wearing the uniform. I am sure if the dress uniform was more complimentary for ball wear, then more would wish to wear it.

I have other thoughts on it, but must remain PC to keep hate mail to minimum.

My .02

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 6:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 18:59:24 -0500

All soldiers should wear the military uniform to their units ball. A duel militaryIindividual attendingttheother spouses ball should be allowed to wear either the aappropriate military uniform or appropriate civilian attire as they are attending as a spouse and not a member of the unit

Response by PO1 Chris Crawley made Jan 13 at 2015 7:07 PM

PO1 Chris Crawley — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:07:46 -0500

I was on the Navy Ball Committee at one base for 2 years, and attended at 2 other bases.
Our norm was that female servicemembers arrived in dress uniform, and once the formal ceremonies were completed, we had a couple of rooms in the hotel set aside as changing rooms, so they could reappear in formal gowns if they so desired.

Response by PO2 Katie Benson made Jan 13 at 2015 7:41 PM

PO2 Katie Benson — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:41:21 -0500

I am so proud of my uniform and I absolutely love wearing it! But; gosh I wish I could wear a beautiful dress to military balls! It's very hard for me to feel pretty and like a woman in my uniform.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 7:53 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:53:11 -0500

It's a military ball. Why where anything else but the Asus to a military ball? You have all the time to do that at non military functions or when you become a civilian.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 8:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:14:13 -0500

Where what you want to. Know that you will be judged for it in a million different ways no matter what you choose.

Enjoy yourself and know that when you get drunk on the town afterwards you will not be in front of the man explaining how you embarrassed the army.

"You should see the other guy!"

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:13 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 00:13:54 -0500

No more double standards. If you are a soldier then you need to adhere to the same rules as all soldiers. If the function calls for ASU's then that is what is worn. Gender is immaterial. Soldiers wear uniforms. It's not about convenience, it's a sign of solidarity and camaraderie.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 12:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:14:17 -0500

I think they should be able to.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:32 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 19:32:21 -0500

"Allowed" doesn't equal "appropriate". A military member attending a unit event should wear the appropriate uniform.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 9:06 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 21:06:15 -0500

There's a guide to everything folks. See DA PAM 600-60 Table 8-1 for all you need to know. It absolutely blows my mind in the 7 months since this topic has been asked that no one bothered to look for the reg.

"Chapter 8
Guide to Proper Dress 8–1. Proper dress for a military or social function The guidance shown at table 8–1 is for Army personnel to use in choosing the proper dress while attending a military
or social function. The occasions listed are those for which a guest would normally receive a written invitation. For correct uniform composition, accessories, insignia, and accouterments, see AR 670–1. Table 8–2 provides guidance on the dress codes normally used today."

Additionally, the manual starts with

"1. Army customs The exchange of courtesy visits is one of the Army’s oldest and most established traditions. This is one way soldiers can make social contacts among themselves. These visits, known as official and social calls, are essential to mutual understanding, respect, confidence, and teamwork. The size and complexity of today’s Army may hinder the exchange of courtesy visits. You should follow established customs of the Service whenever possible. Additional sources of information regarding visits, introductions, protocol, and etiquette are listed in appendix A.
–
2. General rules
Policies for making official and social calls differ widely in the various commands and organizations. Such calls are not made as extensively as in past years. Ask the adjutant, the commander’s aide, or the agency executive officer about the commander’s wishes."

So in other words, it is literally up to your command team for a yea or nay.
The more you know.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jan 18 at 2015 7:41 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 07:41:09 -0500

As I read down this feed, I see fair brought up time after time. We are soldiers, Life is not fair, we do what is right because it is right. Not to be fair or unfair.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 7:59 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 07:59:54 -0500

For my money I think if it's your event, you wear your uniform. If you are dual military or your date is military then they can choose civis or uniform. I
Don't think I should be in a gown at an event my unit is having unless no one is. It's seems very silly to me that I be allowed to wear a gown just because I'm a woman.

Response by SPC Christopher McClaskey made Jan 18 at 2015 8:08 AM

SPC Christopher McClaskey — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 08:08:47 -0500

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 9:58 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 21:58:22 -0400

I don't mind at all if females wear dresses to Military balls. I don't believe there is a need for guys to wear anything other than there dress uniform. We look sharp.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 1:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:07:10 -0400

I AGREE WE ALL SHOULD BE EQUAL. ARE FEMALE SOLDIERS NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A SET OF DRESS BLUES? THIS IS THE REASON I HAVE ONLY BEEN TO ONE MILITARY BALL IN 14 YEARS, IF THEY GET TO WEAR GOWNS I SHOULD BE ABLE TO WEAR A TUX

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Nov 25 at 2015 2:34 PM

CW3 Jim Norris — Wed, 25 Nov 2015 14:34:15 -0500

Now, here you have arrived at the biggest lie ever perpetrated on people - Males and Females are the same......nope. Dress Blues was for all of history the 'tuxedo' of the Army. So you do away with the Dress Green Class A uniform and now the only dress uniform you have is Dress Blues.....so how do you make an event special? You can get a dinner jacket to go with your blues and so can the women....if it's a Military Ball, then service members are in uniform.....all service members are in uniform. If the women want to dress for the prom, it's not a Military Ball, it's a dinner/dance.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 25 at 2015 3:26 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 25 Nov 2015 15:26:16 -0500

Personally I'm OK with letting women decide what they would like to wear. However discretion for the guys is a good idea - I could see some ass hat showing up in nothing but a jockstrap and a viking helmet.

Response by SSG Jane Doe made Feb 27 at 2016 1:05 AM

SSG Jane Doe — Sat, 27 Feb 2016 01:05:39 -0500

I think all military personnel should wear dress uniforms to military balls. Just my personal opinion but female soldiers can wear a skirt with their dress uniform. I agree with you it's part of being a soldier.

Response by SFC James Welch made May 4 at 2021 7:17 PM

SFC James Welch — Tue, 04 May 2021 19:17:36 -0400

If you are going to a Formal Military event you wear the Dress uniform for your gender. This is supposed to be a time of celebration of Military life. You left the Civilian life back home. Unless you are ugly you will look great in Mess Uniform!