Should Leaders at all levels take PT tests with their subordinates?

MSG Martin C. — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 11:46:18 -0400

Many times I have wonder how some command teams were even in command just by their fitness level. When I was a PSG in a HQ company the running joke was that the 1SG and I were the only NCOs in the BN that had to be at parade rest for their Soldiers since 90% of the units outranked us. Should there be a transparency at all levels?

Response by MAJ Steve Sheridan made Apr 24 at 2014 12:28 PM

MAJ Steve Sheridan — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:28:39 -0400

Yes, I think so.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 24 at 2014 1:52 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:52:10 -0400

Everyone is a soldier first, why can't you do the soldiering skills (shooting, PT, etc) together?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 1:56 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:56:41 -0400

Yes, of course! It is called a shared hardship, and it shows the Soldiers that you adhere to the Army standard.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 2:07 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:07:46 -0400

I've never had a 1SG or Co take their PT test with us when I've been at the company level, the CSM or XO always gives them theirs. For a brief period I worked at a BN where the CSM and LTC took their PT tests with us. It wasn't so much the transparency factor that we all liked but the joy of besting the LTC and trying to come close to the CSM.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 2:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:41:11 -0400

Why not? Leaders, Lead! and they have to do it from the front.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 2:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:42:53 -0400

I'll be taking mine with the M-Day soldiers next month. Lead by example.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 2:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:52:59 -0400

Yes, leaders should lead by example. It also teaches junior Soldiers that leaders are not afraid to do the same as them.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 2:59 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:59:54 -0400

This is an easy yes, esprit de corps, team building. Granted, some units are so big that APFTs need to be scheduled in a coordinated fashion

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 3:16 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 15:16:36 -0400

All I know is that I took the APFT this morning, and just about everyone there outranked me. Two O-6's included. (Felt good finishing a full minute ahead of everyone else on the run).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2014 4:40 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:40:34 -0400

I see it all the time here at Ft. Shafter, the BDE CDR and everyone under him shows up to PT 5 days a week. I'll be honest at first I wanted to PT on my own but it's pretty motivating to be taking an APFT and have one of your Soldiers cheering you on.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Apr 24 at 2014 6:23 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 18:23:03 -0400

You want credibility, you will! You set the example....good or bad, you still set the example!

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Apr 24 at 2014 7:48 PM

SFC Christopher Perry — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 19:48:05 -0400

There is no need to go into a long drawn out explanation on this one... YES!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2014 11:41 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:41:19 -0400

I personally have not seen where the leadership did not take the APFT with their Soldiers. In my last APFT two weeks ago the entire CMD Team for the BDE HQ were out there.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2014 2:13 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:13:11 -0400

Personally, it gave me extra motivation to improve when the 53 yr old BC beat me on my run my last pt test. It gives Soldiers inspiration to see their leaders giving their best along side of them.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 5:58 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 05:58:50 -0400

Short answer, ABSOLUTELY. Leaders, regardless of what level they are at, need to be held to the same standard. During my last APFT I was graded by a SSG from my B. Co. My CDR took the APFT with me. STOMP THAT ASS, Sky Soldiers.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Apr 26 at 2014 9:42 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 09:42:55 -0400

I have and always will take my PT test with the troops. And I will die on the run rather than fail, but that is just how I feel. Some (not all) of my troops will run faster than I can, do more push ups and sit ups than I can, but they will not see me fail.

I take that stance, because I care, because the standards existed when I joined and last time I checked-they were still there. And how in the world can I counsel a troop on failure, if I fail myself? Just the way I am wired.

And I think that for all of my troops, it is motivating to see an old man out there with them, working hard. I think that if I simply came out and told them I had passed, I would lose credibility.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Apr 26 at 2014 10:16 AM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 10:16:22 -0400

Based on your location and unit I can see where your coming from. I assume this has not been the case for your entire career. But in my experience leaders at all levels take the APFT with the company and do PT daily with their Soldiers.

Response by 1SG David Niles made Apr 26 at 2014 11:37 AM

1SG David Niles — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 11:37:47 -0400

absolutely, in my younger days in the military, (80's) you never seen it, in my later years, always, no secrets, did not pass tape, everyone new it, did not pass apft, everyone new it. If you kicked ass, and shown you were there to lead, everyone new it. Maybe that is why it is the way it is today. We saw when we were young soldiers that the command was not leading from the front, so when we got there, we decided that we would always lead from the front. Matter of fact it was one of the reasons I decided to retire, I could not keep up with the younger ones.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 12:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 12:33:58 -0400

We take our company PT tests together. Everyone can see how everyone else is doing. We also have the option of going out for company PT tests that we're not scheduled for (since not EVERY Soldier is on the same 6 month test rotation) and performing events alongside our Soldiers if we so choose. We generally have 3 to 4 Company APFTs in a 6 month period, but leaders are never "shielded" from Soldiers seeing them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 12:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 12:41:08 -0400

I do not see why not!...From the very beginning we are told APFT is an 'individual' affair. This means one has to pull all the motivation one needs to make it through successfully. I have taken so many APFT tests with my commander, Xo, 1SG and platoon sergeants and squad leaders. It does not change anything because we are graded by the same standard...age group, weight/height and sex. It is only fair to mind one's business and pass it. The platoon sergeant who failed his APFT should motivate himself and get it over with rather than cutting corners. That is another issue! He should be dealt with JUST like any other soldier!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 2:33 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 14:33:51 -0400

Doesn't that already happen? I can't remember at PT test were my Soldiers weren't there.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 26 at 2014 5:46 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 17:46:41 -0400

In DC I thought PT was a great way to Build Team Cohesion and had a blast with the Friendly Banter we had. Had an 0-5 Cdr that he and I would bust each others chops the whole time on the run. I'm sure trying to keep up with the 0-2 and O-3 Fresh Out of College Ladies kept me in better shape.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Apr 26 at 2014 6:47 PM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 18:47:55 -0400

Yes

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2014 10:14 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:14:09 -0400

I think this is a wonderful idea. When I was in charge of a fitness rehab program for military members who had failed their tests, the supervisors had to be there. To take it a step further, to have them testing together embodies teamwork and the wingman concept.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 19 at 2014 6:22 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:22:44 -0400

I remember at COMSPAWARSYSCOM PTing with various components of our Staff. Past 620 Project Officer Ex-Fighter Jock LCDR loved PTing with us. He could have with the Crystal City Crowd but he preferred hanging with us. "Petty Officer Nagel if I catch you I'm going to Kick Your Ass" "Commander if you ever do Catch Me I'll let you Kick My Ass" we always had fun. Had 3 of us that were 5 and 10K runners in the DC Competitions 2 Female LTJGs and Myself.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 9:38 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:38:11 -0400

Absolutely. And I would not have it any other way.
Soldiers need to see their leaders do the same things they do, or the Specialist mafia will undermine you. Don't give them the opportunity and lead by example.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 7:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 07:16:42 -0500

I am an AIT PLT SGT and we take all our APFT's with our Soldiers. Gives them something to aspire to beat as there only a few that can outscore us on our APFTs. Builds that trust relationship that we are out there doing the same thing they are doing and the standards don't bend just because we have been here forever and are SNCO's. Lead from the Front is what we are suppose to do. Now if someone didn't want to take their PT test with their Soldiers ...what are they hiding? a low score? A failing score? If you are embarrased about your score...do something about it and get off your A$$ and work for that 300.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Aug 10 at 2017 10:41 AM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:41:12 -0400

ABSOLUTELY!!!-This backdoor BS even in the Guard or Reserves is for the birds!!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 11:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:14:06 -0400

Yes, otherwise it looks like they are privileged.