Should the Army decrease the length of deployments?

2016-10-27T17:35:48-04:00

Is it time to reconsider the length of Army deployments? The Air Force, Coast Guard and Marines have 6 month deployments. Does this help family stability and longevity. Should the reserves or National Guard have shorter deployments then active duty? What are the benefits of shorter or longer deployments?

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 27 at 2016 5:41 PM

2016-10-27T17:41:11-04:00

decrease the length means increase the frequency

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Oct 27 at 2016 5:41 PM

2016-10-27T17:41:14-04:00

Did you ever hear the truism that we didn't have 10 years of experience fighting in Vietnam -- what we had was 1 year's experience repeated 10 times.

It's hard to establish credibility with locals when they know you'll be gone soon.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Oct 27 at 2016 5:43 PM

2016-10-27T17:43:34-04:00

This is really misleading, a normal deployment on a MEU is 6-7 months. However when we deployed in support of OEF, the routine was more like 9 months Ditto for OEF. Sometimes over a year or more as it really depended on your Unit. The Air Force in OEF was doing 90 days deployments to Kuwait which in my opinion is a colossal waste of funding. At least for Okinawa its now 2 years for single Marines vice the earlier 13 months. Semper Fi

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 27 at 2016 5:51 PM

2016-10-27T17:51:19-04:00

This is going to sound rude, but leave as is. Nowhere in your A, B, or C bag is your family. They are in your heart, and won't mean a lot to 1200 other men and women who also have loved ones. You shorten the cycle, the Army will find a way to take that time away from home. At least with 12months conventional forces, you can count on the suck starts, when the suck will end, and how much of the suck will be there once you chase Jodi out.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 5:52 PM

2016-10-27T17:52:48-04:00

Keep it as it is with 9-12 months on station.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Oct 27 at 2016 5:57 PM

2016-10-27T17:57:39-04:00

I was stationed at Okinawa, right out of boot camp. It was for 12 months, it went by pretty fast.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 6:09 PM

2016-10-27T18:09:46-04:00

This is misleading, as you can not compare any of those branches together. The reason is Marines and Navy go out on deployment, for 6-8 Months then return home for training, and workups for next deployment, 12 month home port then back out 6-8 month's. The other issue is Equipment certifications, AirForce and Navy have some more complex systems that have to be re certified after so much use, not like MRAPS or Tanks. Army units are not always deploying on a regular bases, if not at war like Marines, Navy, and Airforce. The other thing is when Marines deploy like OEF/OIF it is 9-10 months, not 6. The 6-8 month deployment and 12 back then out is slandered for Navy and Marine Corps with or without a war, the Army does not deploy all the time like the other branches. If we were not a war the Army would hardly ever deploy, like the other branches.

So remember the same Marine unit on that 6 month deployment MUE, only gets 12 months home then back out for 6-8 months and repeat cycle, this is why we get a Sea Service or Deployment ribbon were as you receive overseas, that is why yours is a 12 month deployment, you are on a year overseas duty station, that is why your DD214's are different form Marines and Navy. I would have given anything to do 1 year out then 2 or 3 years back like Army does, but we don't, and we are lucky they changed to 6-8 out and 12 back it use to be 6 out 6 back then repeat, but that is what the Navy and Marine Mission is to be forward presence, the Army does not have that same mission per-say.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 27 at 2016 6:23 PM

2016-10-27T18:23:44-04:00

they need to cut them down to ( months unless a specific soldier wishes to stay longer and work with incoming Unit...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 6:24 PM

2016-10-27T18:24:15-04:00

I don't think that Guard deployments should be shorter than AD. By the time that a soldier takes that time off from civilian life, and a unit gets trained up at MOB station, it just doesn't make sense to shorten that deployment, and thus increase the number of required deployments.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 27 at 2016 6:24 PM

2016-10-27T18:24:38-04:00

The Marines don't really have 6 month deployments, even in peace time. We have 24 month "cycles" with 12 up, 12 down, where 6 are "high" and 6 are "low." The preceding 6 months to those are shifts from one to the other. As an example, prior to a MEU (SOC), there is normally a RIMPAC or other SOC qualifier event, as well as a CAX for Conventional Warfare Qualification.

But our deployments are also based on our resources. You have 3 MEUs on the West & East Coast (each) rotating with their respective ARG and BLTs. A 18-24 month schedule works out almost perfectly. If we had 4 MEUs, it would be shorter. If it was 2, it would be longer.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 8:04 PM

2016-10-27T20:04:35-04:00

Army mobilizations were dropped to 9 months a few years ago for fiscal reasons (don't believe the hype about family stability). This was done to eliminate the costs associated with mid-tour leave. Additionally, it was hoped that retention would be better (especially in the Guard & Reserve where job stability was impacted by frequent long deployments). The challenge with reducing the MOB timeline to 6 months is that by the time you subtract out the left seat/right seat, you aren't there very long doing your actual job. More frequent rotations (due to shorter tours) also increases logistics costs and we still don't have a solid plan to get all of our equipment back (the plan to have it all back by DEC 2013 was impossible and new vehicles were cut up and sold to locals as scrap as an alternative to leaving it behind). Our airframes are rapidly reaching the end of their life cycle with the increased demand due to the GWOT and we don't have the money to replace them.
I'd love to have had 6 month deployments, but it's not the responsible choice for the Army.

Response by 1SG Patrick Burke made Oct 27 at 2016 8:21 PM

2016-10-27T20:21:08-04:00

The Army would find a way to screw up a short deployment for Active Duty. A unit would do X amount of months on trainup, deploy for 6 months, reintegrate, and go right back to a train up for the next deployment. Depending on timelines, a shorter deployment length would mean more deployments and could affect PCS, Schooling, etc. I feel a trainup, 12 month deployment, reintegration, and ample time between deployments for PCS or schooling.

Response by SGT William Howell made Oct 27 at 2016 9:09 PM

2016-10-27T21:09:05-04:00

So I am going to be the asshole here. Active duty should do what is needed. Guard and Reserve should be a stop gap. I have a chapped ass over my deployment in '04 to Iraq. I spent 4 months training to go to Iraq. None of that counted for my "year" deployment. They took all of our weekend drills for a year and AT and counted that as Guard time. Then my unit ends up at Ft. Steward to train of another 45 days and that time don't count because it is 365 days boots on the ground. So before I ever step into a combat zone I have almost 6 months where I have seen my family for 3 days, I did not received leave that I should have accrued, and my fellow employees have to pick up at my job while I was gone.

Now I get to Iraq. Now my 365 starts. Oh did I mention that I got stop lossed at 3 months into the deployment. So at 365 guess what? We are too important to leave the AO. I finally leave Iraq at 419 days in a combat zone. I saw 3 active duty units deploy and leave out of my AO. People that get paid to be full time soldiers. When we get back to the States I have to spend another 3 weeks demobilizing after I return. Then a month later guess who has to go to AT because I am stop lossed still?

I was treated like a whore for over 2 years, while active duty units came and went. I am not sure of the answer to how long a deployment should be. I am sure that a Guard or Reserve should never be longer that 6 months from the word go.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Oct 27 at 2016 9:16 PM

2016-10-27T21:16:30-04:00

Not sure. What is the length of deployment in today's Army. Back in the day, 1960's and 70's (Vietnam) Tour was 13 months for most part with an R & R of up to 4 weeks during that time. I stayed over for 27 months and I was ok with that. I looked forward to R&R trips and to Bob Hope Shows. In fact when I learned a few years ago that rotations were 6 months I was really surprised. Then I have a good buddy who is a O-3 and was due for retirement. Just as soon as he submitted his retirement papers the Army offered him O-4 if he would extend and take a tour in Iraq. He declined with 22 years, he worked his way through the enlisted ranks until he finished college. Anyway, after he refused the Army's generous offer they denied his request for retirement unless he resigned his commission, which he did not want to do. Well, the good ole Army extended him for 18 months with NO advancement in rank and put him in the sand box for 15 months after 3 months of prep training. (He was changed from medical support MOS to Psy Ops!) Anyway, he is home and well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 11:38 PM

2016-10-27T23:38:03-04:00

I know with National Guard it's supposed to be 1 year deployed, 4-5 years home. During the home years it's Drill, AT, and occasional ADOS or if something weird happens you get activated by the State then it's back to the 1 year.

Funny thing about the Army is it never is as it's supposed to be.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 12:01 AM

2016-10-28T00:01:56-04:00

No.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 2:16 AM

2016-10-28T02:16:05-04:00

No.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 3:01 AM

2016-10-28T03:01:49-04:00

Great write-up.

During my time in the Air Force Security Forces, I would do 6 months away then 6 months home. I actually had one time where I was in Iraq and was relieved by an individual who I relieved just 6 months prior. So while the deployments may be shorter, there is no short supply of continuity on the Air Force front.

What the AD side should possibly be doing is having more continuity like the Army Reserves Civil Affairs have. Each unit is responsible for a different country and or countries. This provides that continuity that we should be requiring for deployments. Also ensures that "We will be back".

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 5:46 AM

2016-10-28T05:46:34-04:00

I had a 20 month deployment and a 10 month, both different experiences , I is crazy to have anything less then 10-12 months. Waste of time and money anything less

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 9:53 AM

2016-10-28T09:53:32-04:00

You can't just have a specific number to a deployment since they all are different based on mission capability, hostility, etc. Some missions only take 4 months when others take 8. Being in the Navy, we have our deployments that stretch into the 10 month period when usually it should be in the 6 months. If it were easy enough, 6-8 Max would be my line.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 5:01 PM

2016-10-28T17:01:49-04:00

I don't think so. That would just make for more multiple deployments. Too hard on the soldier and his family.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2016 5:59 PM

2016-10-28T17:59:13-04:00

I feel that 9 months should be a minimum with 15 being the longest. You could also have augments from other units fill in if it starts to seem like you are going to need more troops.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Oct 29 at 2016 10:05 AM

2016-10-29T10:05:14-04:00

This is a "it depends" question. I think it depends on the region, the end state, and the forces available. Longer unit based deployments are better for unit cohesive and capability,. But, they also have lasting and harmful impacts on families, and a Soldier's desire to stay in. I believe for sustained combat operations (now), 9 months make sense for the Army. I think the guard and reserve should be capped at 9 months total mobilization time. No easy answer here. Also remember, deployment means very different things for each branch, and even each job. Being in Qatar is the same as being in Sadar City.

I have been on deployments of 30ish (Grenada/Panama), 60ish, 90ish, 179 days, 12 months, 15 months, and the deployment length all depended on the era and the conflict. As an example, 179 days in Bosnia and Kosovo seemed like forever... Until 911. Before the Surge in Iraq, the Army was at 12 months, which seemed right, but the guard and reserves were 12 months BOG, which did not include the mob-station time; they were actually more like 15-18 months. The latter (guard/reserves) was simply ludicrous. The guard/reserves changed in 06-08, so that mob time as 12 months total, and so their BOG was more appropriate. Before the surge, the Marines were 9 months, Navy 6, and Air Force seemed run 30, 60, of 90; this depended on whether it was a unit or WIAS. SOF was also doing 30, 60, or 90; unit flags stayed, but the sub elements rotated in and out.

In 05-06, we had run out of Active Duty Military Police units and Engineer units, and our units were literally replacing each other every 12 months, until we brought full strength the Reserves and Guard to bear. 75-80% of these forces (nearly all support branches) are in the guard the and reserves. We also added the ILO (In Lieu Of) units, wherein we trained 1000s of units to do other missions we were short on. This luck of units had a lot to do with increasing deployment times... We had a capability gap - unit/personnel shortage.

During the Surge the Army went to 15 months, which was just plain crazy. After the surge the Army dropped to 9 months as the new normal, which is probably the best solution.

Finally, after 911, I believe we settled on 12 months, then because of all the historical issues the Army dealt with during Vietnam. While I was not there, all of my readings and research lead me to believe 6 months, and non unit rotations, did not work well.

No easy answer here. It all depends.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Oct 29 at 2016 1:29 PM

2016-10-29T13:29:28-04:00

Three to four month deployments is one significant attraction of SOF.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2016 8:34 PM

2016-11-01T20:34:41-04:00

I think this should depend on your units mision. I am support and 1year away sucks but is tolerable because for the most part I live and work on a FOB. Tours for folks that go out on patrol or pn mission need much shorter tours to retain a bit of sanity,

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Nov 3 at 2016 9:32 PM

2016-11-03T21:32:04-04:00

There is no easy answer to this. By keeping rotations at a year or less, we may have extended our operations because with every RIP/TOA, new commanders had to build relationships with all the local leaders. This hurt consistency in our efforts as every commander would do things differently and in some cases stop what the previous unit did. I also think that the constant rotation of units in and out make it feel less like it is an Army at war vs. it is now our turn.

Response by SSG Alfonso Pagan made Jan 18 at 2017 1:50 PM

2017-01-18T13:50:37-05:00

Before OIF the deployments for the Army were 6 months. With OEF going on and then added OIF the Army was stretching thin and went to 12 months. Now were are back to pre-OIF since 2011, I think it's long overdue that we need to go back to the 6 months rotation to parts of the world that we are just there to show of force only.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Oct 17 at 2017 10:32 PM

2017-10-17T22:32:10-04:00

I would say there is a lot of questions in there. First I think the Guard should not be called up before Active units of the same type of unit. I still scratch my head when I see a NG unit get called up when there is an active unit sitting there who hasn't deployed. Second, length of tour, as it takes the Army months to do anything for a deployment you have to get something out of that, or you will be calling up units all the time. As for the other services, Most of the Army never floats on a boat, or has to fly missions all over. So there is that. Lastly, our force structure is such that it is so damn expensive to send units over, you may as well leave them for a while.

Response by COL William Oseles made Oct 17 at 2017 11:57 PM

2017-10-17T23:57:32-04:00

Short tours can be extremely detremental in that by the time the unit learns the people and the area they are leaving.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 23 at 2018 6:14 PM

2018-07-23T18:14:22-04:00

Look at it this way- 30 days to acclimate, 30-60 days to learn the terrain and people, 30-60 days to learn how/like to use to kill you, adjust to the higher command- Then it takes you 30-60 days to start to shut down and brief the incoming groups advance party. So you have spent 7 months and just when were you going to do your assigned job?
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Response by SPC John Decker made Mar 9 at 2019 6:35 PM

2019-03-09T18:35:56-05:00

I would say either 6 or 9 months. Then, at least that long of stateside down time before redeployment.