Should the Army "hire" some of its officers externally

SFC Nikhil Kumra — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:55:55 -0500

why can't a mid- senior level HR manager be commissioned in as a major, and go through a special ocs? or high police officer go through a program making them a field grade MP officer? Could a CEO who is physically fit and willing to serve be trained to be a general? If the army pulled from external civilian organizations, could they perhaps drive more desired change and create a more efficient force?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Feb 2 at 2015 9:26 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:26:13 -0500

Short answer, they do. But only for special skills. I have seen someone directly commissioned as high as an O6.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 9:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:30:56 -0500

Someone who served as a corporate executive is probably unfamiliar with military culture. I think of the executives in our company. These execs are used to working with corporate people. Put these guys in charge of an Army BN, where they have to deal with NJPs, DUIs, AWOLs, etc, and these same execs will get eaten alive quickly.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 9:34 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:34:14 -0500

Hell no! Hire? They are weak. They wouldn't sign up when their country was at war and needed them. So they think we need them now.

Response by SFC Royce Williams made Feb 2 at 2015 9:51 PM

SFC Royce Williams — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:51:05 -0500

No way! The military is to civilianized as it is. They run housing, work in the DFACS, working as DOD Police at the gates. If anything we need to get rid of the civilians not hire more.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Feb 2 at 2015 10:22 PM

SFC A.M. Drake — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 22:22:49 -0500

We already have a similar program, it's called AMEDD where we can bring certain healthcare providers in from 2LT-COL. All without basic training. Now the reason you cannot bring someone is a 0-7 and higher right off the streets is because federal law says you can't plus each one is approved/recommended the service chiefs to the President

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:49 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 22:49:18 -0500

Intriguing idea but I think the cultures are too different for a seamless transition. I think it would also present immense leadership challenges. Besides the gov civilian force has already pulled in highly qualified external candidates but they won't allow them to come in any higher then GS 12 which I think is a good policy.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Feb 3 at 2015 7:36 AM

CMC Robert Young — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 07:36:06 -0500

The Coast Guard already does, but only for very specific and very limited duty (Physician's Assistant, Legal, etc). I've been around a number of these officers, and while I understand the logic, it is definitely not the way to go. Many are very capable at their chosen profession, but culturally unable to adjust to military life. They often lack bearing and command presence, and most unfortunately frequently lack the "service before self" mindset that is the hallmark of good leaders.

Everybody sees crap on cracker and then simply associate it with the officer corps. That's bad for everybody. Officers are then guilty by association with somebody who doesn't meet all of the proper military standards. SNCO/NCOs in their chain of command are forced to pick up the offending direct commission officer's slack, and finally junior enlisted are subjected to a "leader" who doesn't necessarily exhibit the high quality leadership typically seen by most officers who the products of very structured professional development programs.

Like I said; I understand the logic of "hiring" professionals for some specific jobs, but we do ourselves a disservice when we do. Maybe another way to go about this is to just find good people who want to be "insert your professional specialty here" and then have the military train them. Just a thought.

Response by CPT Kyle Butters made Feb 3 at 2015 9:23 AM

CPT Kyle Butters — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 09:23:42 -0500

I thinks it's an intriguing conversation to have. I don't know if it would work and it would take some digging into federal law to see if it would even be allowable. I would want these people to be volunteers and not "recruited" but I don't know how realistic that would be. The problem with bringing them in at the General Officer level comes down to credibility with lower commanders. Since GOs are appointed by Congress and confirmed by the President it may be challenging to get through confirmation but it might be easier legally than commissioning them say as an 06. All of this supposed that I am not referring to medical or JAG Officers since they are commisioned differently already.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 10:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:21:06 -0500

The Army already does this. Many of your specialty skilled jobs are from people that were hired straight off the street. I've seen a 0-3come right off the street and didn't know how to salute or even know how to wear the uniform. This particular guy came right from the civilian sector and was commissioned right there and came straight to the clinic. After teaching him everything about the Army he later went to OBC ( Ifficer Basic Course).

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 3 at 2015 10:38 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:38:55 -0500

We do this with the GS & SES services, as opposed to the Officer ranks.

This lets us "capture" civilian expertise, without the negatives of culture shock.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 3 at 2015 10:53 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:53:54 -0500

We already do with certain branches. Medical, JAG and Chaplain are the best examples of this. You are essentially hiring them for their special skills. The problem you are going to run into with doing this for Competative Category officers (ie non special branches) is that there is a certain amount of institutional military knowledge that you must have to successfully operate at certain ranks. A Captain has to not only know how to be a leader, but also know how to employ his company to support the operational plan of his higher commander. You can't simply buy that knowledge, training and experience from the civilian world.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Feb 3 at 2015 11:38 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 11:38:59 -0500

- Good question and idea that might work in a few select branches and MOSs (IE health care like docs, nurses, dentists; lawyers, etc) but I do not believe this would be a FAS (feasible, suitable, acceptable, distinguishable, complete) course of action for the Army as a hole.
- The Army has 120 MOSs of which about 20 or so are various officer MOS. Let's face it, what civilian would be able to come in at the MAJ level or above and be able to perform as an IN, AR, FA, or EN officer while having no clue about any of the history, protocols, systems, organizations, processes, procedures, etc? In a situation like WWII where the Army expanded from about 400K to about 8M you take what you can get but in a 2015 situation where we are drawing down the Army, why would we accept that kind of risk?
- Concur that an officer pulled from an external civilian organization MIGHT drive more desired change and create a more efficient force but this assumes that the current officers and leaders we have can not or will not do this? I doubt this is correct otherwise the Fortune 500 companies would not be targeting exiting junior military officers to join there ranks.
- Finally, if the Army truly is a profession and our leaders truly are professionals, how can an external person jump in and perform as a professional? That is like saying a person can jump into any profession (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc) at a 10 year point or after and perform. I for one would not use a person such as this.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Oct 19 at 2019 12:48 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:48:07 -0400

Only Med, JAG, and Chap and keep it like it is but Direct Appointment Program could be expanded. As a former DA HR Guy and Mustang I support the Direct Appointment program without all of the Politics.