Should the Army (or the other services) revise the W-1 through W-4 rank insignia to be in line with the other military services?

CW4 Keith Dolliver — Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:05:05 -0400

In 1954 the Army approved the attached Warrant Officer rank insignia as a revision from the previously authorized insignia because all the military services concurred in the design and this insignia served as the Warrant Officer insignia from 1956 through 1972 when the insignia was redesigned to the current Army Warrant Officer insignia we know today.

In 2004 the Army revised the CW5 rank insignia from the previously authorized Master Warrant Officer insignia to the current W-5 we know today due to "the increasingly joint nature of operations with the Department of Defense and the expanded use of the most senior warrant officers in joint operations". As of today the Army's W-1 through W-4 rank insignia are the only military officer insignia that is not uniform among officer insignia across the services.

Should the Army revise the W-1 through W-4 insignia to be in line with that of the other services, similar to the 1956 authorized insignia? Should the other services revise their W-1 through W-4 insignia to mirror the "dot" system that we use?

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Catalog/Heraldry.aspx?HeraldryId=15751&CategoryId=9186&grp=2&menu=Uniformed%20Services

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2014 10:33 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:33:16 -0400

I think the Army should keep its current insignia. "They" took away our Eagle Rising insignia; that was enough.

I think the Army's W-1 through W-5 insignia are simple, straightforward, and - dare I say - elegant. If the other services want to change their insignia (which I doubt), that would be fine by me. :-)

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Oct 13 at 2014 12:07 PM

SSG Ed Mikus — Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:07:18 -0400

I like them the way they are, the Army's and everyone else's, why would we make them all the same?

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Oct 19 at 2014 12:14 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 12:14:48 -0400

The insignia was revised because of the low IQ folks that we were recruiting to the all volunteer force. It was found that they could count on their fingers from 1 to 4, so that is how we have what we have today. At the same time manuals were being revised and written at the 8th grade level to address the same problem. With the increase in quality of today's Regular Army soldier, I think that we can go back to gold and silver bars with one or two dots. There was not CW5 back then, so just leave it as it is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2014 9:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 21:23:51 -0400

The Army gets it right with the KISS approach to WO rank insignia. As an Army veteran, and now working as an Army civilian contractor, I do come in contact with Army Warrant Officers, so I can immediately identify who is a WO1 or a CW3.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 1:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 13:16:54 -0500

No. The Army should be the Army and the Navy should be the Navy. Each with it's own customs, traditions, and uniforms.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Jan 3 at 2015 1:29 PM

SPC Leisel Luman — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 13:29:11 -0500

Hahahaha The idea that Army Cheif Warrant Officer should Change to get in alignment with other branches is hysterical. They are a different breed and the idea that they should change to make it easier for others ... Well they are hard wired NOT to do that. Just my humble openion.

Response by LTC Erik Spike Thiesmeyer, Sr. made Oct 24 at 2015 4:11 PM

LTC Erik Spike Thiesmeyer, Sr. — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 16:11:40 -0400

I would say the Navy and Marine Corps should adopt the Army's insignia. With the subdued ranks, it's often difficult to tell a silver insignia vs. gold. And who decided that Gold should follow Silver? Isn't Gold more valuable? In the Army, one dot is a WO1, two dots a CW2, etc. Simple. I would hate to be a CW3 and be mistaken for a lowly WO1 because of the particular shade of the camouflage pattern I was wearing.

Response by LTC John Mohor made Aug 7 at 2017 9:41 PM

LTC John Mohor — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:41:17 -0400

Actually when you really think about it of the four services that use warrant officer ranks they're all different. You forget the Navy and Coast Guard also have it on their sleeve. Sea services blue, Marines Red while Army may avoid gold and silver backgrounds it works on both berets and field gear!

Response by CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. made Aug 13 at 2017 4:25 PM

CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:25:11 -0400

We did once, in fact. In January 1973 I submitted my Warrant Packet and bought a set of WO1 bars. I went before my selection board with those bars in my pocket for luck. Between then and my appointment date the Army changed from the Gold and Silver Bars to the Silver and Black Bars. I still have my old style WO1 bars in my jewelry box. Was Pinned with the "spot" bars.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2017 8:42 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 20:42:44 -0400

The Air Force has simplest warrant officer ranks...

If enlisted stripes and ranks don't match and the Navy & Coast Guard ranks don't line up and even overlap rank names with other pay grades then why do warrant insignias need to match?

Response by SSG Damon Alexander made Aug 21 at 2017 1:03 PM

SSG Damon Alexander — Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:03:53 -0400

Yeah but dont ever call a freshly appointed WO1 as Spot...they truly hate that...lol

Response by CW3 Ron Gelinas made Jan 21 at 2018 11:50 PM

CW3 Ron Gelinas — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 23:50:56 -0500

Yes, but only if and when the Army reverts to the Pinks and Greens. Still in use when ai enlisted 1957!

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 22 at 2018 12:08 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 00:08:40 -0500

I never had any problem with ID of the Warrant Officer Insignia before, Navy, Coast Guard and Air Force had blue, Marines red and Army has had brown and even black in the portion that wasn't silver or gold. If they were silver You knew the person was a CWO, (W3 or W4) if gold a WO (W1) or CWO (W-2). It wasn't complicated at all I did work for a CWO (W4) in the USAF when they still had Warrant Officers in the USAF. I didn't see any good reason for any service to change the rank insignia from they they had been. With more and more Multi service operations why confuse it with different rank insignia any more than it already is ! I'm also of the opinion Officer and Warrant Office insignia should be returned to the collar where all services used to display it and it won't be covered by gear Your wearing while in combat uniforms. The Army is the only service that did that with Officer and warrant Officer rank insignia. Also what was wrong with having Your corp insignia of the left collar and rank on the right as it used to be for decades ? If it isn't broken why try to change it for the sake of change ?

Doesn't count exactly I guess as in the USAF I was always enlisted but had been a NCO, WO and CWO, then an Officer in Civil Air Patrol, the USAF Auxiliary. The rank insignia was still the same as in the USAF

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made May 6 at 2018 6:27 PM

CW3 Clayton C. — Sun, 06 May 2018 18:27:38 -0400

Is there really a problem here? I don’t think it really matters. Personally, I’d rather not exchange all of my current rank for a new flavor of anything. Unless, of course, it includes bringing back the Eagle Rising.

Response by SSgt David Marks made May 19 at 2018 2:58 AM

SSgt David Marks — Sat, 19 May 2018 02:58:55 -0400

The USAF did away with Warrent Officers years ago. But I do believe that the Army and Marine Corps should have standardized rank insignia. I don't know if the Navy has Warrent Officers.

Response by SSgt Julius Bob Midgett made May 30 at 2019 2:08 PM

SSgt Julius Bob Midgett — Thu, 30 May 2019 14:08:54 -0400

I think the Marine Wo should wear the bursting bomb on one collar and be called Gunner unless they are pilots or air wing

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2021 4:39 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 04:39:37 -0500

I've only meet a Navy CW3 once and I had to ask if he was a WO1 or CW3 because it wasn't clear embroidered on fatigues. It is odd that Warrant ranks are not universal across the services but I'd say that the Army version is better embroidered and that the other services should emulate the Army.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jan 18 at 2021 8:33 AM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 08:33:01 -0500

The rank insignia is the culmination of the Army after MacNamara's morons. In no particular order, PM Magazine lowered to 6th grade level and turned into a comic book, FMs and TMs written at 6th grade level, etc. It was discovered that the morons could not grasp a gold bar with one or two dots nor a silver bar. So to make it where they could understand, all bars were silver and those that could count to 4 could count the dots and know the warrant grade. The other services kept their standards up and did not have this problem.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2021 6:46 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 18:46:34 -0400

At times I say yes...but you can't tell the difference between W1 and W4 in subdued rank. This is why the Army Changed it. Look at a W4 navy subdued...its tough to tell.