Should the Combat Action Badge, and/or Valor Awards be awarded to Soldiers who are flagged?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 00:20:11 -0400

A Soldier is flagged for punishment phase of UCMJ action, but performs an act of valor or meets the criteria for a CAB while the unit is deployed. Should the Soldier be recommended for/receive the award? The underlying question being, should the chain of command put forth the effort to recognize the Soldier for their actions despite the Soldier's previous poor life choices?

AR600-8-2 Ch3 Para1e states a flag prohibits the following:
e. Recommendation for, and receipt of, individual awards and decorations. Exceptions to this policy are outlined in AR 600–8–22.

AR 600-8-22 para 1-17 states:
a. Personal Decorations. A medal will not be awarded or presented to any individual whose entire service subsequent to the time of the distinguished act, achievement, or service has not been honorable. The determination of "honorable" will be based on such honest and faithful service according the standards of conduct, courage, and duty required by law and customs of the service of a member of the grade to whom the standard is applied. Commanders will ensure that—
(1) Individuals on whom favorable personnel actions have been suspended neither are recommended for nor receive awards during the period of the suspension. Exceptions to the above are Soldiers who are flagged for APFT failure, in
accordance with AR 600–8–2.
(2) Other-than-honorable service subsequent to submission of the recommendation for an award is promptly reported to the awards approving authority with a recommendation for appropriate action.
b. Waiver for overweight. As an exception to subparagraph a(1), above, a Soldier who is flagged for overweight may be recommended for and presented an award based on valor, heroism, or for length of service retirement. A waiver of the overweight flag must be processed to the first general officer in the Soldier’s chain of command for approval or disapproval. A waiver for overweight is not required for award of the Purple Heart. Approval or disapproval authority is delegated to the first general officer in the chain of command. Waivers will be processed as separate and distinct actions from the award recommendation, and should be submitted and adjudicated prior to submission of the award recommendation. Approved waivers will accompany the award recommendation once submitted.
c. Badges. A badge will not be awarded to any person who, subsequent to qualification therefore, has been dismissed, dishonorably discharged, or convicted of desertion by court-martial.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 12:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 00:24:00 -0400

I know what the regulation states but I say yes a service-member should be awarded a medal if it is merited. For example, a Soldier is flagged because of something minor. The same Soldier a month later, still in punishment phase, without regard for his life rescues three children from drowning. Does that Soldier not deserve the Soldier's Medal?

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Nov 1 at 2014 10:25 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 22:25:46 -0400

In my opinion, the individual should receive what they earn. Even the regulation appears to give the situation flexibility, as AR 600-8-22 appears to say that the barring of an award only applies to "...any individual whose entire service... has not been honorable." It doesn't say just anybody who is currently flagged. There are not many service members who have had an "entire service" record be dishonorable.

In short, it doesn't seem to make sense that being flagged would prevent somebody from receiving an award they deserved. I think the bigger question is whether or not they really deserved it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 10:34 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 22:34:48 -0400

I would say that he flag would not cover any valorous acts. I think we are looking at the issue the wrong way. I would question if you would want someone who you just UCMJed to gun on your vehicle or go out on patrol.

Usually the ones that are flagged are not your best soldiers. I am not saying that they are bad soldiers but I have found that the ones that are flagged really don't adhere to the military structure. If they were they would not find themselves in that situation.

With that being said I have no doubt, after their punishment is over, they could be a productive member of the team. My former roommate was AWOL and tested positive for drugs but begged to stay in the Army. He would be reduced to E-nothing and got the max of a Field Grade Art 15. After that he would deploy and do a great job. He took control of his life and vastly improved. Unfortunately he didn't return from our deployment. I still remember the day I found out. He was not the best soldier for a while but he was Hero at the end.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2014 11:51 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 23:51:27 -0500

If they have performed a valorous act, recognize and decorate them. Sometimes regulations can be absurd. This would be an example.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 12:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 00:16:53 -0500

Coming back and reading through the responses, the consensus is that a flag should not keep a Soldier from being recognized for significant achievements while deployed (CAB, Valor awards).
There were excellent points mentioned throughout.
The Regulation seems to leave a tiny loophole when stating "...any individual whose entire service... has not been honorable." (MAJ Weiss makes the point that there are few Soldiers, if any, who have performed less than honorably for their entire service period.)
A Soldier can learn and grow from their mistakes and should not be denied recognition based on a singular mistakes. This was echoed by pretty much everyone.
So let's say the Soldier in question is a successful rehab. What can be done to encourage the Soldier to continue on the right path? This brings me to time limitations on awards.
AR 600–8–22 states:
1–14. Time limitation
a. Except for the provisions of Section 1130, Title 10, United States Code (10 USC 1130), outlined below and paragraph 1–15 (Lost recommendations), each recommendation for an award of a military decoration must be entered administratively into military channels within 2 years of the act, achievement, or service to be honored. Submission into military channels is defined as “signed by the initiating official and endorsed by a higher official in the chain of
command.” However, pursuant to 10 USC 1130, a Member of Congress can request consideration of a proposal for the award or presentation of decoration (or the upgrading of a decoration), either for an individual or unit, that is not otherwise authorized to be presented or awarded due to limitations established by law or policy. Based upon such review, the Secretary of the Army will make a determination as to the merits of approving the award or presentation of the decoration and other determinations necessary to comply with congressional reporting under 10 USC 1130.
Should the award be submitted once the flag is lifted? What if the Soldier is chaptered out of the military? Not only does the Soldier not receive the CAB, Valor award, or EOT award for deployment, but they also are not receiving their ETS award because they are flagged. Thoughts?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 6:54 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 06:54:36 -0500

If its for a valorous act or if they were attacked by the enemy which would qualify them for the CAB / CIB, then they absolutely should be recognized and awarded it. If they were good enough to continue performing their duties in combat, they should be recognized for it.

Response by MSG D Cebo made Dec 16 at 2014 9:47 AM

MSG D Cebo — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:47:09 -0500

HAVE YOU READ THE REG, Please read it and that will answer your troubles

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 9:56 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:56:44 -0500

I guess I would question the judgement of a commander who places a Soldier in the punishment phase in a situation where valor might occur. I for one wouldn't want that guy far from the flagpole at all, much less with a loaded weapon.
However, if an event were to occur, I think you consider it. The "honorable service" provision can be interpreted by the commander, but I feel that it should be applied to those who desert, run away, sleep on duty while a sentry, or otherwise dishonor themselves in the face of the enemy. Infractions that occur away from the action would need to be looked at, but if it were up to me, I wouldn't dismiss a recommendation for a valor award out of hand.

Response by SSG Mannix Brooks made Dec 17 at 2014 4:45 PM

SSG Mannix Brooks — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 16:45:55 -0500

All bets are off (as in waivers) when someone is in a war-zone because the need always trumps whatever restrictions were imposed on that individual as in they were good enough to go. Are you going to tell me a flagged soldier who draws enemy fire and gets shot while on patrol or in a guard tower doesn't get a CAB or worse Purple because flag means all awards? If that criteria is used what if the flagged soldier saves a troops life that is not flagged, would that make that person less than the flagged person and therefore that individual be divested of any future medals while in the combat zone as in flagged? The answer no because it would be silly which is the same as the unwritten rule that some medals are only awarded to individuals of certain ranks.

Response by SGT Gregory Reilly made Sep 5 at 2015 12:10 AM

SGT Gregory Reilly — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 00:10:18 -0400

I know the regs, but that's bullshit. They should be decorated. If flagging means so much then don't send them to war. If you're going to send them to potentially die for their country then decorate them. Kind of a double edge sword isn't it. You're saying they're good enough to die for their country but not good enough for their country to decorate them for surviving. I went through this when I first went back into the reserves. Three of us had outstanding AT's. They were going to give us letters of accomadation instead of medals because of my flag. I fought with the 1st Sergeant to award my troops medals and through my letter in the trash. This topic really upsets me especially in war time. I'm done before I really say something stupid.

Response by PFC Scott Touchette made Feb 16 at 2016 7:05 PM

PFC Scott Touchette — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 19:05:48 -0500

Regardless, if the individual deserves, earned, the badge/award, that that person should receive this honor. Sometimes the rules are meant to be followed, yet in this case, they need to be amended.

Response by Cpl Rick Stalder made May 17 at 2016 10:56 AM

Cpl Rick Stalder — Tue, 17 May 2016 10:56:59 -0400

As Marines we are held to a higher standard are we not? Is that not why we joined? That aside, we work as a team and I will be the first to admit that I've pulled my share of dumb ass moves. If the Corps sees enough in you to keep you and you meet/exceed the requirements for your award - then you've earned it and should be awarded it.

Ex: if you die in combat saving your squad - do you earn an honorable discharge? A medal? do you get it because you died? no. You earned it. Pay for you mistake and move on. Redeem yourself and be the Marine you were meant to be.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Feb 3 at 2017 11:53 AM

SrA James Cannon — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 11:53:48 -0500

I think they should be eligible for the award.

Response by SGT Jack Stevens made Oct 23 at 2017 9:34 PM

SGT Jack Stevens — Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:34:19 -0400

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are flagged, doesn't that make a soldier undeployable? To many times units do this not comprehending who they are hurting. And should be held accountable for their misuse of flagging of soldiers.

Response by SSG Steve Latta made Apr 21 at 2018 6:49 PM

SSG Steve Latta — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 18:49:55 -0400

If you put your ass on the line for others then you deserve the recognition and not punished twice for an infraction stateside. What you do in combat shows more of the soldier then the civilian.

Response by SFC Raymond Morales made May 10 at 2018 11:11 PM

SFC Raymond Morales — Thu, 10 May 2018 23:11:26 -0400

For those troops that have earned honor through action they should be recognized accordingly

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made May 11 at 2018 2:13 AM

CSM Patrick Durr — Fri, 11 May 2018 02:13:58 -0400

Since you mention the CAB specifically...it's not a medal. Medal or awards should be withheld while a Soldier is flagged. The CAB is awarded for Combat Action and is generally mass awarded/presented. "Awards" are given based on recommendations by others...the CAB needs no recommendation. The Soldiers Actions themselves, qualifies him/her.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 11 at 2018 11:38 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 11 May 2018 11:38:02 -0400

I don't understand- you spelled it out with the regs. Flagged- No award- It is not the unit who screwed up and got flagged, but the SM. Sometimes bad choices will follow you for the rest of your life- you just have to learn to live with them.

Response by SSG Bob Allendorf made May 15 at 2018 11:24 PM

SSG Bob Allendorf — Tue, 15 May 2018 23:24:13 -0400

Apples and oranges. If the individual does a valorous act he deserves the award regardless of prior bad acts.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2019 1:40 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 13:40:12 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member depends on what the flag is and what the chain of command feels outweighs the other. If you are in country and piss hot but also save another Soldiers life which outweighs the other....obviously a bit easier to make a decision if the Soldier commits murder after returning fire while under contact than other situations.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 12 at 2021 5:14 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 12 May 2021 17:14:49 -0400

ABSOLUTELY! Look at it this way, if a Soldier who is flagged for height and weight or APFT does something heroic, deserving of an award for valor, then MAYBE height and weight/APFT don't matter as much as we pretend they do? After all, the argument for physical fitness is to enable us to be able to do the heroic things that Soldier just demonstrated they are capable of doing.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2021 7:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 May 2021 19:52:48 -0400

AR 600-8-22, 1-17 Character of Service
(b) Exceptions. As an exception to paragraph 1–17a(1), Soldiers who are flagged for overweight or Army Physical Fitness Test failure may be recommended for and presented an award based on valor and heroism. Additionally, Soldiers who are flagged for overweight or Army Physical Fitness Test failure may be posthumously recommended for and presented an award, decoration, or a badge when assigned to a unit engaged in combat against hostile forces and the Soldier dies as a result of injuries sustained during combat.

(c) Waiver for overweight and Army Physical Fitness Test failure flags. A waiver of the overweight or Army Physical Fitness Test flag must be processed for length of service retirement awards to the first general officer in the Soldier’s chain of command with award approval or disapproval authority. All waivers will be processed as separate and distinct actions from the award recommendation and should be submitted and adjudicated prior to submission of the award recommendation. The approved waiver will accompany the award recommendation once submitted.

(d) Purple Heart. The PH is an entitlement and differs from all other awards and does not require an exception or waiver for presentation

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2022 12:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:27:36 -0400

Yes, but unfortunately regulation for favorable actions forbids it. Probably something the Army should take a solid look at, especially combat action specific awards.