Should we be concerned with homeless civilians posing as veterans?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:12:59 -0400

I generally do not question the validity of a person in need, however EVERY homeless person I see can't be a vet. I've given a lot to people who have been on the corner asking for help. What first sparked my suspicion was a man that came up to me while I was pumping gas. He gave me the standard "road side bomb line" and lifted his shirt to show me his scars. I asked him why he hadn't talked to the VA before he was discharged. He then went wide-eyed, turned, and walked away.

This may be just my city, but most of the homeless men in this town wear some type of military identifying item. With two surplus stores and countless goodwill centers, I'm starting to believe being a military vet is becoming the excuse used to take advantage of those that don't know better. This could end bad for the actual veterans that need the assistance.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Sep 24 at 2014 5:36 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:36:37 -0400

I didn't vote since none really seem to fit my reaction. I live just outside of Dayton, Ohio and we have a VA Medical Center which has a Homeless Veteran Program. Being that I am a County Veterans Service Officer, I have several professional contacts there, one of whom is the Homeless program manager.
When I come across those claiming to be homeless vets, I simply offer to arrange for transportation to the VA campus and a meeting with a social worker who would be able to provide them housing and assistance. Those that are legitimate are generally extremely grateful; the others... well... not so much!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 8:48 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 20:48:11 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I personally have had similar conversations with civilians posing as ex-military personnel. Most of these grifters are wise to what's a "hot" button topic in the community and are quick to adapt their stories to hit all the right buttons for the naive do-gooders. Terribly sad state of affairs, but it happens. When someone tells me they are a veteran I spend a few minutes with them; most of them realize I'm wise to them when they are not ex-military and quietly walk away. The veterans quickly learn I will help them, but it's on them to participate fully. I also require them to be fully honest with me - anytime I discover the veteran has lied to me I let them know and also inform them that if they are caught in a lie a second time I most likely will not be available to help them in the future.

I respect every veteran and his/her journey - along with the various difficulties they may have been through. However, I am not willing to spend my time and efforts on those who opt to lie to me.

I applaud your efforts for our veterans - I would only suggest you might consider joining with a Veterans Service Organization (VSO) in your efforts. Every VSO has a singular intent to aid fellow veterans after service and might be able to help you focus your efforts and combine them with their own. There is strength in numbers!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 8:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 20:58:56 -0400

A person in need is still a person, indeed. We can adopt the policy of helping nobody, and the poor vets suffer. Or we can help whomever we can and if we can.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 24 at 2014 9:20 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:20:49 -0400

Its another form of stolen valor. I feel horrible for anyone in this country that is homeless. Some will use whatever tool is at their disposal to get what they need. Doing something like claiming one is a homeless is a probably a desperate act that impacts real homeless vets by skewing the real numbers and possibly taking benefits away from them.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 9:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:23:45 -0400

It happens here in the DC metro area as well. Maybe some of these guys were in the service or perhaps they are stealing valor. They may be claiming veteran status to get a hand out. Who knows what the truth is...

Response by SPC Brian Aranda made Sep 24 at 2014 9:27 PM

SPC Brian Aranda — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:27:30 -0400

I've had people come up and say they are starving, and anything helps because they haven't eaten in 3 days. I offer to buy them something from the place we happen to be in the parking lot for, but most times they refuse, saying they don't want to put me through that kind of effort. I don't have a problem with being charitable, but I do have a problem when they dictate what that charity entails. As for helping out the veterans, I usually go through the Social Services Veterans Programs. Those are geared towards helping homeless Vets and Vets needing any type of assistance.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 24 at 2014 9:28 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:28:58 -0400

While according to some reports around 25% of all homeless men are veterans. Unfortunately many other homeless men may have gleaned that being a vet pays and are using this to exploit the generosity of others. What ever the reasons that has lead someone to become homeless lying and deceitful practices are not positive steps regardless if they involve stolen valor. However sir I feel that homeless vets are a societal issue that needs to be addressed by the military as with so many service members now having a physical and or mental health issues.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 24 at 2014 9:28 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:28:17 -0400

Sad but it is another way to gain sympathy. When you are down and out and it works you will probably do it. Just that way of things unfortunately. There sure are plenty of Homeless Veterans here in Kansas City home of the VFW.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 26 at 2014 4:28 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 04:28:48 -0400

No. On the back of the sign they are holding, it reads "Car broke down on the way to get my mother an operation. Any help is appreciated. God Bless." I will offer to take them to the VA regional office and make an appointment to talk to a service officer. I will enjoy a nice sit down lunch with them; my treat. I will take them to the homeless veteran office at the local VA hospital and be their POC while they are in the program. I will not give them money. I am a big meanie.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Sep 26 at 2014 8:39 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:39:31 -0400

I give when I can but I am sure there are loads of people claiming to be homeless vets when they aren't

Response by SSG John Bacon made Sep 26 at 2014 12:00 PM

SSG John Bacon — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:00:05 -0400

SPC (P) Erin Mulder You are correct that a person in need is a person in need. But if that person is intentionally deceiving you to make some sort of profit from being a “veteran”, then that person regardless of their intentions is in violation of the stolen valor act. Claiming to be a wounded warrior, and playing on people’s sympathies, 1. Makes Civilians think that all vets are being treated like that. 2. Makes it harder for real Vets in need to receive assistance when everyone is claiming to be a vet and they are not. 3. Causes civilians to distrust what they are being told by really anyone (fool me once rule) and no assistance given. 4. Paints a very poor picture of after-military life for Everyone. So yes if you are in need I got it, but don’t claim to be something you are not in the process of asking for help.

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Sep 26 at 2014 1:29 PM

SPC David Shaffer — Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:29:37 -0400

I agree that no one should impersonate a vet. I also think it's a sad thing that they should have to feel the need to in order to get help. I would help them regardless just for the fact that it's not my place to judge what they have to do just to eat. It's easy for anyone to judge if they have not been in these people's shoes. If your starving I'm sure you would do what it takes to survive...

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Oct 2 at 2014 11:37 PM

Cpl Chris Rice — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:37:20 -0400

I will give to anybody regardless of what their story is, I do not believe personally that when I stand before God I will be punished for giving the poser money. Although I have to say as of late I have been a bit strapped for cash as I look for my first job after graduating, and I feel bad when I have nothing in my pocket to give.

I will say though if I get the opportunity to talk to them I will mention that they get in contact with local VA facility, and suggest they ask about the HUD VASH program. It has been doing wonders, and has helped reduce veteran homelessness by 33% over the past several years. When I worked for the local Vet Center those I referred to them never came back complaining, and I heard that they sometimes help them find housing that night. This program requires a Social Security number to verify service to begin the process.

If they are a faker they will not qualify; so that is a way that I am not helping both parties as I do not know the resources off the top of my head that are open to the general public.

Response by SSG Dennis Chase made Oct 30 at 2014 11:40 PM

SSG Dennis Chase — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 23:40:10 -0400

Although you should help all if you can. But stating an affiliate that your not to get benefits for stating so is wrong.

Response by CSM Tony Bowen made Oct 31 at 2014 12:31 AM

CSM Tony Bowen — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 00:31:16 -0400

Actually Yes, No one should impersonate a veteran; but also, you should give whether they are a Veteran or not is my take on it also. I mean if you're going to give to the homeless it shouldn't matter if they are a Veteran or not. Just give to them. I give all the time for the ones that I see have no choice. Do I always give? No! There are a lot out there asking for handouts that are quite capable of work. Being Homeless and being Helpless are two different areas that walk a fine line with me. I'll give to the Helpless but not always to the Homeless. Just last night I witnessed an Old Man digging through a garbage can and literally dumping crumbs from a bag into his mouth and than digging again for more. By the shape of him and his age I knew he was helpless so I gave him $20 and didn't even think rather he was a Veteran or not.
A Military Veteran is anyone that served in the Military no matter how long that enlistment was or there lack of. A War Veteran is someone whom served in a war in the military. A lot of people confuse the term Veteran. So when we say there are Veterans out there we aren't always talking about War Veterans. So that kid in the picture posted may have enlisted in the Services and then got out therefore a Veteran.

Response by SPC Cedar Bristol made Nov 4 at 2014 8:05 PM

SPC Cedar Bristol — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 20:05:47 -0500

Faking veteran status to gain benefits intended for actual veterans is a crime.

I doubt that any of us are in a position to help everyone with their hand out, so we have no choice but to pick and choose.

How likely is it that a someone begging on the street with fake veteran cred is genuine about anything else?

Help those who ask honestly and deserve it.

And read Burkett's book Stolen Valor and see how often homelessness among veterans has been exaggerated in the past:

http://www.amazon.com/Stolen-Valor-Vietnam-Generation-History/dp/096670360X

In the book, studies of actual Vietnam combat vets found that they have slightly less mental illness than the general population, and slightly better average income.

Sure, all kinds of people do serve, and some actually are homeless. Some have mental issues like PTSD, but they are also more likely to deal with mental issues competently.

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Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 7:09 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 19:09:49 -0500

There are a lot of people out there that are posing as veterans and yes it is wrong. We do need to take care of all but or veterans are in true need. They can not be forgotten.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 8:07 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:07:21 -0500

If they have a DD-214, I think it would not be a problem but there are benefits that are meant for --- veterans ---;

I meet too many Vietnam and Vietnam-era veterans in real need. Now I cannot attest to if they have criminal charges or some other issue and still, we need any veteran in the streets.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 26 at 2014 11:52 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:52:09 -0500

My father-in-law always gave "a little something" to every panhandler who approached him. I didn't say anything, but I always felt that he was most likely wasting his money on someone who would probably buy booze with it. However, after my father-in-law died, I found myself taking up his habit, at least when I could. I don't know why.

Sadly, the economy has deteriorated significantly over the past decade (regardless of what politicians may want you to believe) and the need has grown exponentially. Southern California (where I live) is the nation's capital for the homeless, veterans and otherwise, drawn by the moderate climate I suppose.

Likewise, the economy has undermined my capacity for generosity. Charity, after all, begins at home. Indeed, American is no longer the most generous of nations in the world. The government has robbed from the rich to give to the poor and individual charitable giving is dropping. And, inasmuch as the government is an inefficient funnel for charitable giving, the dollars that they take from us arrive at the hands of the needy as mere cents.

Fortunately, although retirement has vastly decreased my disposable income, it has greatly increased my disposable time, and I can be more generous with that. I trust that patients I visit at the VA hospital are veterans, but those on the streets with their hands out most likely don't have DD214s in their pockets even if they are veterans.

Response by MSgt Bj Jones made Dec 6 at 2014 12:21 AM

MSgt Bj Jones — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 00:21:30 -0500

Civilians posing as homeless veterans make the situation for truly homeless veterans bad. How many folks have seen panhandlers collect money, then get into a high priced vehicle and drive off? Germany has it right: Homelessness is illegal, and panhandlers have to declare their earnings for tax purposes. When a civilian poses as a Veteran and begs for money, it causes doubts about the real Veterans who are truly homeless and in need. Those civilians should be called out and charged with false identity, stolen valor, etc.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 8 at 2015 7:47 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:47:20 -0500

Being a homeless vet for a while I have always seen red when I come across a fake vet be they homeless or not, but it makes matter worse if they are on the street panning for money and giving actual vets a bad name. Many homeless that arent vets are just to damn lazy to work or have found that its easier to milk the system as homeless. Seattle has one of the biggest infestations of homeless and as I was leaving the city had 22000 in the down town area alone and were starting to crack down on all the benefits these yahoo's received to discourage the droves of new ones who arrive every spring.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Jan 8 at 2015 10:11 PM

SPC Leisel Luman — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:11:45 -0500

HUDVASH is a housing voucher program the VA has updated. They pay a certain amount to the landlord. The VA realized that some need a stable home to get clean, sober, compliant with treatment, stay out of jail and get employed. It's hard to get employed if you don't have a address, drivers license, birth certificate or telephone etc... Under the new guidelines many who were previously excluded are now eligible. I googled the training PowerPoint presentation and found all the regional contacts. Here homeless vets can go to the county vet office and get a bus voucher to the VA. There is a homeless outreach coordinator they help them obtain the documents needed to participate. As far as civilians disgracing the uniform to panhandle for money that is
Stolen Valor and some park their fancy car down the block. Not every veteran is fortunate enough to have a home or family to go to and "couch Surf" or live in cars. If HUDVASH is out of vouchers for your area you can work with HUDVASH in another area where vouchers are available. I don't judge how they got that way.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2015 10:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 10:01:34 -0500

In my experience, I find that we all have been in a hard situation, some more than others. I chose to give to those who do not ask for anything but are attempting to make their way, however i do not chose to provide for those who are deliberately standing on the side of the road or in front of a military installation asking for some sort of funds.
I have helped those who were seeking help but not seeking a crutch or an excuse for why they needed help, but i have given my time provided or directed them to a shelter or a place of need. I believe that we all in certain situations need that extra nudge to get us back on our feet. I do not believe that begging for that temporary fix, warrens that nudge.
with that being said and recovering from digressing - I have seen some vets asking for help, however i have oft thought it was odd to find a vet asking for money. You normally can see those who are just begging for money, or you can see those who actually need the help, but when i see someone who clearly shows he has no form or military experience, running into the surplus store to buy some ACU pants or jacket and scuff it up to help his "story" i find a huge issue with that.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 29 at 2015 5:00 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:00:26 -0400

I think if we accidentally get a homeless person a home, we will all be okay BUT I think we should make sure they are not rewarded for lying about their veteran status.