Posted on Feb 1, 2017
SM traveling TDY, alternate airport is $700 cheaper, unit is ordering SM to not use the alternate. Is this government fraud/waste/abuse?
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Seriously don't like this new question format. I have to post the question then add the details. Anyways, I haven't been given a reason/justification for why the unit is ordering the SM to not use the alternate airport, but it doesn't seem right to me. Additionally, they are refusing to authorize a rental car. I haven't found a regulation on reasonable walking distance, but the lodging is 2 miles from the place of duty, given the below freezing conditions in addition to snow, I don't see how anyone responsible leader would ask a soldier to do this multiple times a day when they are not acclimatized to the weather or that level of physical exertion in addition to PT. Thoughts?
TDY
Defense Travel System (DTS)
Travel
Fraud
Waste
Edited 7 y ago
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 6
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I don't know the answer to your questions. But your best arguments are found here:
http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/travelreg.cfm
http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/travelreg.cfm
The Joint Travel Regulations (JTR) are applicable to uniformed members of the seven uniformed services ( i.e., Uniformed Members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps , Coast Guard, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps, and Public Health Service Commissioned Corps), DoD civilian employees and others traveling at DoD expense. For DoD civilian employees, the JTR’s authority is primarily derived from U.S.C....
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SGT Kristin Wiley big thing for the travel on post is there a internal bus system? I know that is where they got some people. The airport part is ridiculous. I know that sometimes the flights in DTS they want you to pick one as the government as already gotten seats and it would be a waste if they did not use them vs. the open market. I do not claim to be an expert of how much that is and if it is cheaper than the $700, but as a DTS approver in the past we reviewed and if proven it was cheaper we have a limited budget so we went with the cheaper one and paid for the difference in mileage for the traveler, especially if parking was cheaper too.
Back to the internal post see if you can get the bus schedule (if there is one) for the post and get a friend the first day of class to see if they have a rental to hitch a ride everyday. I have been there and it can be rough.
Back to the internal post see if you can get the bus schedule (if there is one) for the post and get a friend the first day of class to see if they have a rental to hitch a ride everyday. I have been there and it can be rough.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
I just confirmed there is a paid shuttle service that soldiers will be expected to pay out of pocket for if they elect to use it. For the flights, there was no government fare on either location and the travel is being organized by individual and not as a group. I don't even know how many soldiers will be going from the unit. The only thing I can think of is that there is a shuttle service at the other airport, but I don't feel like that's a $700 expense.
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LTC (Join to see)
SGT Kristin Wiley - Craziness. Keep receipt for shuttle that is claimable on voucher.
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I believe there is definitely a case to be made about a cheaper route. As for the rental car, I suspect them to be SOL. I have bought pedal bikes, found buses...search local classifieds, craigslist, etc. Perhaps, if there are several in the same boat, they poor their own funds and rent a car.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
SGM Erik Marquez Roger. It's unclear whether the post has a shuttle system, I would have to call and find out. Obviously, the DFAC walk in itself s acceptable. There just seems to be a lack of general concern for the soldiers. No risk or cost assessment has been done. There may have soldiers traveling that have cold weather injuries, profile limitations, etc. As far as I've been told, it was the DTS reviewing official at the BDE level that is forcing the issue that soldiers walk. The unit at the BN level was trying to get a rental car authorized.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGT Kristin Wiley -
Check ATTRS for that school..many times there are notes on the ATTRS listing that say "Rental car should be authorized due to xyz" Or "On post shuttle is to be used for inter post transportation needs, rental car is not authorized" Or the like.
Next, the BN can only ask, they do not control the use of TDY funding... But neither does the BDE really.
Bottom line the BDE reviewer is likely just some person in the S3 shop, not an actually commander of leader.. They follow the guidance of the DTS authorizer, the JTR, the DIV DTS folks and the BDE XO or S3 most likely, as best they understand.
The DTS end user is often left holding the bag to do the research, and with the justification for anything the reviewer is not allowing.
My DTS reviewer (a hugely professional and smart SSG) and I at the DIV G3 level dealt with this crap every day...
the onus is on the DTS user and their leadership to support the case for authorizing something that is allowable under the JTR..Two vastly different things...Allowable and Authorized.
The key is cost, not comfort or convenience. Your justification needs to focus on cost ...that is what will get the attention of the BDE XO or S3 that will green light or not the request.
I know, BS, when the BDE will authorize a rental car without batting an eyelash for the BDE S-3 ops sergeant when he goes TDY to do a site survey or the S-1 LT when she is sent to observe a subordinate units operations....and the lowly SGT sent to NET at a distant post, with no local support is left to figure it out on their own when they get to Fort BFE.
Better units do it better, less better units make the DTS user struggle..just the way it is.
Check ATTRS for that school..many times there are notes on the ATTRS listing that say "Rental car should be authorized due to xyz" Or "On post shuttle is to be used for inter post transportation needs, rental car is not authorized" Or the like.
Next, the BN can only ask, they do not control the use of TDY funding... But neither does the BDE really.
Bottom line the BDE reviewer is likely just some person in the S3 shop, not an actually commander of leader.. They follow the guidance of the DTS authorizer, the JTR, the DIV DTS folks and the BDE XO or S3 most likely, as best they understand.
The DTS end user is often left holding the bag to do the research, and with the justification for anything the reviewer is not allowing.
My DTS reviewer (a hugely professional and smart SSG) and I at the DIV G3 level dealt with this crap every day...
the onus is on the DTS user and their leadership to support the case for authorizing something that is allowable under the JTR..Two vastly different things...Allowable and Authorized.
The key is cost, not comfort or convenience. Your justification needs to focus on cost ...that is what will get the attention of the BDE XO or S3 that will green light or not the request.
I know, BS, when the BDE will authorize a rental car without batting an eyelash for the BDE S-3 ops sergeant when he goes TDY to do a site survey or the S-1 LT when she is sent to observe a subordinate units operations....and the lowly SGT sent to NET at a distant post, with no local support is left to figure it out on their own when they get to Fort BFE.
Better units do it better, less better units make the DTS user struggle..just the way it is.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
SGM Erik Marquez The school has given out guidance that if the unit will approval a rental car that is the best option. Not required, but strongly recommended. For the cost, I presented an option that saves them $700 per soldier through using an alternate airport, more than enough to pay for a shared rental car. I've been told it is non-negotiable to pursue this option and I've pressed for a reason, but none has been given to me. The whole situation doesn't make sense. I was just told that their is a paid shuttle service, and soldiers can either elect to pay for it out of pocket or walk the 2 miles each way in the snow.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGT Kristin Wiley - The chosen Airport and off set of a rental car fee is a non starter.
They will not be considered so forget that line of thought.
Sounds like it is time to get a commander involved....if the unit 1SG and commander are on board with options other than walking in the snow...then let them take the issue to the BDE.
Again, that was a common thing for me to deal with..the Bde DTS clerk or the BDE S3, XO would call and ask If..what..how...
At the least, use of the post shuttle cost should be reimbursable.. if the BDE reviewer is refusing that , then it is a commanders issue.. The BDE reviewer is doing so on their own position or that of the BDE (higher) commanders ruling. That is what needs to be figured out.
If the BDE CDR is making the decision to not reimburse post shuttle costs for a SM in TDY status.. You have but two choices ..Suck it up, or appeal to a higher commander..both have pitfalls.
They will not be considered so forget that line of thought.
Sounds like it is time to get a commander involved....if the unit 1SG and commander are on board with options other than walking in the snow...then let them take the issue to the BDE.
Again, that was a common thing for me to deal with..the Bde DTS clerk or the BDE S3, XO would call and ask If..what..how...
At the least, use of the post shuttle cost should be reimbursable.. if the BDE reviewer is refusing that , then it is a commanders issue.. The BDE reviewer is doing so on their own position or that of the BDE (higher) commanders ruling. That is what needs to be figured out.
If the BDE CDR is making the decision to not reimburse post shuttle costs for a SM in TDY status.. You have but two choices ..Suck it up, or appeal to a higher commander..both have pitfalls.
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