SMA pushes for black socks, headphones with PT uniform. Your thoughts?

SGM Steve Wettstein — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:37:27 -0400

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/06/29/dan-dailey-pushes-black-socks-headphones-pt/29290285/

I don't have a dog in this hunt anymore. I am just curious what you all think.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 9:52 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:52:58 -0400

At least the black socks would make it look more uniform...

Response by CSM David Heidke made Jun 29 at 2015 10:25 AM

CSM David Heidke — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:25:30 -0400

Black was a bad idea in the first place. But it may keep the CSMs favorite industry in business, road guard vests and reflective belts.

So where are we supposed to find black athletic socks?! Is that another thing we will only be able to find at Military Clothing Sales stores? Hell, I can't even get the whole PT uniform there!?

I think the headphone thing is OK, but then again with an all black uniform...

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 29 at 2015 10:28 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:28:44 -0400

Black socks at PT are just wrong.

Response by CPT Aaron Bengtson made Jun 29 at 2015 10:32 AM

CPT Aaron Bengtson — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:32:30 -0400

Not that I truly care anymore since I'm out. But when I was in, my last unit allowed headphones in the unit gym, and my previous duty station of Fort Bliss, the post command (at the time, not sure about now) allowed for headphones in the gym. I think having a top-down decision on this is good. I also agree with the SSG that headphones during the run on the PT test would help people tremendously instead of wondering, "How far have I gone, and how far do I have let?"

As far as the black socks, not so much. White socks are easy to find anywhere. Black socks are usually made of a different material (usually thicker or thinner, too) because of their typical usage in more dressy clothing, and black socks of the same material just aren't as easy to find. And the Army would be the only branch to wear black socks with the PT uniform. The Army needs to stop changing uniforms when something works. The new PTs, yes, from what my friends tell me, it's much more comfortable. Scorpion uniform, a definite need to replace the cruddy ACUs. But socks? Really? That's a change for the sake of change, and I don't think it'd look good anyway, especially since most people's shoes are white or a light grey anyway.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Jun 29 at 2015 10:34 AM

MAJ Jim Steven — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:34:57 -0400

What is the Army's obsession with the color, black???
Seriously, we worry about cars being able to see us AND heat injuries...and someone comes up with a black uniform, and maybe black socks???

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 29 at 2015 10:35 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:35:25 -0400

While a lot of changes have been made by SMA Dailey since he took office, and he seems to actually be listening to what the Soldiers have to say, unlike IMO SMA Chandler, most of this is "fluff". Until the Army gets back to the business at hand and allows it's young NCOs to train their Soldiers, like we did before GWOT, all of this is "...putting lipstick on a pig." For my son's sake and that of the younger generation of Soldier, I do hope that the Army is done with changing uniforms which place a financial burden on them no matter how you slice it and they can get back to the business at hand.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jun 29 at 2015 10:46 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:46:21 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein I think the APFT or PT uniform should always be a light color for the summer months and heat. Just my opinion. If they want to have headphones then let them use those on the days the soldiers are doing their own work outs on their own. When in formations and running together as a team (or) conducting an APFT I don't think they should be allowed. When a group is running in formation let's back to the old days of sounding off and getting some cadences going. I'm curious to see what our Marine brothers and sisters think of these changes? What changes have they made? Maybe I'm just too old fashion. At the end of the day it's up to the SMA who is currently setting the tone. We've seen a lot of changes that I don't agree with - like the Beret - is that back again? I think the Beret symbolized a special group of Green Berets, Airborne, and Rangers! Again, just an opinion. Some will agree and disagree.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jun 29 at 2015 11:05 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:05:53 -0400

Well, I don't understand the black sock thing. Everyone says that they can't wear the green issue wool socks. Well they haven't been wool since the mid to late 90's. All they are is green over the calf tube socks. Makes no since. They are 100 percent cotton! same as the black just different color.
As far as the head phones. I like that Idea. would love to be able to run with the head phones in or at least just one as to be aware of my surroundings anyway.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jun 29 at 2015 11:14 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:14:53 -0400

I don't remember the survey, but did they think about just changing the materials and keeping the same style instead of changing everything?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:00 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:00:49 -0400

The color doesn't matter; most units I've been in had black unit PT shirts already. I'm glad the new uniform is made out of improved materials with an improved fit. I've already got black PT socks for when I work out in civilian gear. I'll wear what I'm told to, couldn't care less.

Response by CPL S Gibbs made Jun 29 at 2015 12:11 PM

CPL S Gibbs — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:11:20 -0400

Who cares what you wear really? Maybe something to consider with weather relation. You are so sweaty anyway, shouldn't be an issue except for weather relation and health.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:37 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:37:15 -0400

I don't have a problem with making black socks optional, but I don't want to be forced to get them.
Headphones at gyms makes sense, since you can wear them in civvies.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 29 at 2015 1:43 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 13:43:04 -0400

If there's no color required for running shoes, it shouldn't matter for socks. The use of headphones should also be permitted. AS LONG AS YOU WEAR YOUR PT BELT.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 29 at 2015 2:46 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:46:51 -0400

AR385-10 prohibits Soldiers (and encourages family members) not to wear headphones while in public road ways. Commanders have the discretion to designate closed routes where headphones could be used. I am in favor under those circumstances. Anything to reduce the suck and encourage people to get after it, especially inside on ellipticals, stationary bikes, and treadmills.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jun 29 at 2015 3:44 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 15:44:18 -0400

Unbelievable all I can say is have at it, I served 25 years and 3 days. I know when I wear black socks my feet stink-sweat profusely!

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made Jun 29 at 2015 8:10 PM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:10:47 -0400

So you will be seeing some troops wearing bright red beats headsets, very professional

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 1:58 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 13:58:09 -0400

So while it is nice to see that he is trying to ease the suck a bit I think he needs to let other issues be high profile and let these just be icing on the cake.
Since he doesn't do PRT for his personal training regimen, is he going do address what he sees is wrong with it?
Are we going to have a new APFT anytime soon and in what form will it take?
Most of all, how to enforce the top driven mandates he sets. We all know there will be more than one or two commanders/CSMs that will take exception to his decision to have a period of mix and match with uniforms. There will also be those who are butt hurt about letting a Joe/Jane listen to music while walking on the treadmill.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 8:00 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:00:37 -0400

The fact that this is an issue on the SMA's agenda strikes me as sad, given the fact that we have a shrinking force, a shrinking budget, and a growing number of security issues throughout the world. We have a ridiculous number of SHARP issues, serious concerns about the quality of leadership across the force, discussions about major changes to benefits for Soldiers and families, and a renewed focus on direct action fights that is going to require major retraining throughout every formation in the Army, AND YET we care about the color of socks people wear during PT? Yes, it's nice that Soldiers will be able to wear headphones at the gym - but why is this not a garrison commander issue that gets resolved with five minutes of memo-typing?

I appreciate that SMA Dailey is working to reduce the everyday suck and put a check on some of the rampant stupidity, but this isn't an issue worthy of his attention when there is so much else of concern in the Army.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2015 12:31 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jul 2015 00:31:41 -0400

SMA Dailey said it best if it isn't hurting anything why not? For those who are complaining about the SMA not focusing on larger issues such as pay and troop strength you need to do your homework. When was the last time a NCO gave an order or created a standard or policy?....never. Officers make these decisions and it is our job to enforce them. In the case of pay and man power that is a congressional decision that the joint chiefs only influence.
In my humble opinion I believe that the SMA is doing a good thing by attacking the things he can effect such morale. One of the previous articles was just talking about morale being at rock bottom again in the Army. Like it or not young Soldiers morale is effected by thing such as tattoos, headphones in the gym, and yes even socks. I met SMA Chandler three different times and not once did he ask what the Soldiers thought he did however deny a NCO of the year a coin because she had a small broken heart tattoo behind her right ear because he didn't see her as a professional. Think she cared about her pay or retirement options that day? Bottom line all we can do at our level is to provide the troops we are charged with leading the best training, care, and influence we can. Spend more time worrying about what you can directly impact rather than what you cant.

Response by SGM Jeff Bullard made Jul 4 at 2015 10:33 PM

SGM Jeff Bullard — Sat, 04 Jul 2015 22:33:23 -0400

I have no issue with black socks, I think it'll look better than Soldiers walking around in dingy, dirty socks. IT goes with the rest of the new PT uniform. I really have no issue with wearing headphones while in the gym or on a closed track while conducting individual workouts. Music gets people motivated and helps time go by when you're running, lifting weights, etc.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2015 10:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jul 2015 22:47:59 -0400

It should be made clear that the SMA is talking about headphone use only WHILE IN GYM FACILITES. Although I would love to be able to wear mine while taking APFT..I like having music to keep my focus and set a pace. Having said that, I know many who run the test with their phones for a timer...no reason why they can't play music through the device speakers.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 1:19 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 01:19:32 -0400

Well as for black socks, I read it as possibly allowing it (i.e. White or black). So really not that big a deal or change, just an option.

IRT Headphones. I read "not a chance".

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Nov 6 at 2015 2:13 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0500

Took less than 5 months

It's official, black socks with PT's! | RallyPoint

It's official, black socks are now authorized with PT's.http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/11/06/army-approves-black-socks-pt-uniforms/75169688/

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 4:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:11:21 -0500

Headphones in the gym? Really? Hmmmm.....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 9:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:21:59 -0500

I dont really care about black socks, I mean Great for those who really wanted them. It will look a heck of alot better than dirty white socks. I havent paid to much attention but most black socks I see for sale have logos. I dont even know why the wearing of headphones in the gym should be a discussion. In reality, who gets to use the gym during PT hours anyways? When I was deployed it wasnt a problem, why is it now?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 10:55 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:55:17 -0500

I wish SMA or whoever is in charge of the uniform panel would let go of the "no logo" policy. Any quality sock (regardless of black or white) usually has a logo on it - but we're not authorize to wear it. Meanwhile, I've seen every shade of running shoe and their crazy logos.