Student sues because of ROTC scholarship and religion denial

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:24:44 -0500

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/iknoor-singh/sikh-army-rotc_b_6147686.html

Original post was merged and deleted; looking for your feedback and input concerning suing because you dont get your way. Seems like there is more to this story then what is being reported on.

The Army Is Making Me Choose Between My Faith and My Country

I follow the Sikh faith, which requires that I keep my hair long and wear a turban and beard. The ROTC recruiters said I would not be able to enlist unless I complied with all Army grooming and uniform rules.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 3:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:30:23 -0500

You know I think this is one of those instances in which I believe, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SOMEONES RELIGION IS. As long as they don't betray me or my fellow soldiers. Let them keep their hair. What harm is it anyway?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Nov 13 at 2014 3:40 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:40:13 -0500

I would like to see the basis of the denial given that they have approved similar requests.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 13 at 2014 7:16 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:16:39 -0500

"Don't go away angry, just GO AWAY!" We all want, how does it feel? I wanted an ROTC scholarship but I wasn't an ethnic minority. I wanted a school scholarship but I wasn't an athlete, what I got were student loans. Life is making choices not about if I can't have it I'll sue so I can have everything because I'm entitled to it.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Nov 13 at 2014 7:59 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:59:46 -0500

There are waivers for this. He also has a choice to join and follow the regulations or not to join. This feels like just another person who is trying to make a stink for publicity and money.

"I wanted to join my whole life" he says. For some reason though, you were unaware of the grooming standards? I want to grow a beard, but I will have to wait until I get out. I gave up many "wants" to be in the service.

I "want" to be with my wife for our first full year of marriage. Too bad my mission is to deploy to the Middle East before that can happen. I will go proudly because I am proud of this country.

I have respect for the Sikhs and welcome their warrior lifestyle to the military, but if you want to be a whiny little shit about some regulations, then are you really the type of person we want in the military?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 8:32 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:32:35 -0500

I agree with some here to think that perhaps the ROTC program there is unaware of the waivers available, as many Sikhs currently serve. Having said that, I find it unprofessional and unfortunate that many of you would bash someone for wanting to serve this country. To our knowledge, he hasn't asked for exemptions on anything other than grooming standards. Seems fairly straightforward to me. Grooming standards are not a bonafide job requirement. Should there be standards, yes. However there is room in this military for a little latitude to allow this country to harness ALL of the diverse talent it has to offer. Simply saying no is the easy wrong choice and sells us short from having the best, most talented and diverse military anywhere. If someone is willing to complete all of the required training with said grooming standards, then why not? We already issue shaving profiles, so if the Soldier is willing to train to standard, ie gas chamber etc than why not? The elephant in the room here is that many won't publicly admit that they don't like the way it looks, or equate turbans with terrorism. And that is the REAL issue.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 13 at 2014 8:35 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:35:07 -0500

So essentially a religion with grooming standards is OK but a military with grooming standards isn't. WTF?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 8:37 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:37:43 -0500

Your original post was rightly merged and deleted. This is a tired discussion. Everyone is in their corners, unwilling to move. The fact of the matter is that exceptions are being made for appearance on religious grounds.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 8:44 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:44:44 -0500

If you cannot comply with the standards that are currently placed before you, support us from the civilian sector. Have a nice day and thank you for your support.
Suing to get your way is not only unpatriotic but is entirely self-serving and shameful.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 10:18 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:18:21 -0500

The Army is not making anyone between the Army and their faith. They choose to make that decision of their own will, no one is forced to join...it's "All Volunteer". If you have any objections to grooming standards....no problem, there is the door, no recrutier will stop you from leaving and force anyone to join.

There are waivers and the Army has had members of the Sikh Faith serve, I served with a Soldier of the Skih Faith in the late 80s in the 11th ACR in Germany. I do wonder "why" his request for waiver was not approved. I've only read what he claims it to be!

Regardless, the Army is not making him choose, it's his decision to make (unless there are other reasons his wavier was denied) of his own free will. All other Soldiers of all other faiths made their choice.

I've yet to read the other side of this story....the Army's! There is always 2 sides to every tale!

It's time the Military and society stick to some rules and regulations and stop making exceptions for so many who want to be special and different! If you want to be a part of team, join the team, follow and obey the same rules as the other members of your team.

It is the Army of One! One Army, One team, not just one person! We thank you for your consideration. Apparently, you're not what the team is looking for, or needs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 10:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:23:16 -0500

Join the National Guard! Grooming standards only apply on drill weekends!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 2:16 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:16:51 -0500

I say let them talk all the S**t they want but what it boils down to is unwillingness to keep an open mind of such topics. Im not saying im right or wrong. But at least I keep an open mind. People are ignorant of change. Isn't that one thing soldiers are suppose to do, adapt to change? You cant blame them for their religion's culture. I get it. uniformity is key however current turbans i have seen are in fact ACU pattern, get over it already!! it might not be a patrol cap. at least its not some outrageous neon green and blue turban, it's ACU!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 5:19 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:19:03 -0500

There are religions that say any killing is wrong. I wonder if a Buddhist could join the Army with the requirement that he/she not have to harm any other person. Although I respect this person's desire to serve, the Army has requirements, just like his religion. He needs to decide which requirements he wants to adhere to.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Nov 14 at 2014 12:58 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:58:27 -0500

I said it once, I'll say it again, the STANDARDS are the STANDARDS! You want to serve, adhere to the standards. I think we can all agree that you have very little freedoms while serving. You fight for the freedom of speech but you know that you can't fully exercise that right while in the uniform for whatever reasons. I'm sure there are other people in other faiths, like let's just say an Amish man who would love to serve but don't because the STANDARDS of their faith and the STANDARDS of the military do not mix well.

This guy is just trying to make something out of nothing. Those of that served have all given up something in order to serve. Sure, giving up your faith is a HUGE step and shouldn't be taken lightly but if that is what is needed to join would you do it? It's a hard call but not worth all the press with other more important things hitting the military and veteran population.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 5:24 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 17:24:24 -0500

So I did a little more digging on this issue and here is what I found:

Sikhs can cut their hair. Many younger generation Sikhs do this and wear a bracelet called a kara instead of showing religious affiliation. The hard line Sikhs will refuse to cut their hair, not wear a turban or abide by any governing laws except their own religious law.

Sikhs are allowed to carry a kirpan on school grounds, but not in a hospital, federal building or on airplanes.

Looks like some concessions can be made and others cannot.

The Army also revamped its response from the first denial stating: he could seek an exemption after he was enlisted as a cadet .

Looks like there was to the story than originally published. Thoughts?

Response by SSG Duane Tyler made Nov 15 at 2014 4:27 PM

SSG Duane Tyler — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:27:58 -0500

You chose the Army the Army didn't choose you. Uniformed volunteers.

Response by PO3 Billy Tharp made Nov 15 at 2014 4:58 PM

PO3 Billy Tharp — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:58:22 -0500

You have to choose. Ask your religious leader about it, get your answer,make a choice then follow through. Or chuck the whole idea and go to college.

Response by MSgt John McDowell made Nov 15 at 2014 7:24 PM

MSgt John McDowell — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:24:05 -0500

Show this dude videos of soldiers taking rounds in their helmet and surviving and then ask him how he plans to wear a helmet with that mop on his head.

Response by MSgt Darren VanDerwilt made Nov 16 at 2014 3:09 AM

MSgt Darren VanDerwilt — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 03:09:07 -0500

"It is the Sikh's sacred duty, without fear or anger, to defend the weak, to protect the innocent." Who wouldn't want a person with that kind of warrior spirit? The U.S. military has made provision for people in the past, consientious objectors that had gone on to recieve the Medal of Honor for acts of heroism, why not here? The grooming standards are arbitrary, women are allowed to have long hair while in the field, there goes your health an sanitation argument. Generals Robert E. Lee, Ulysses S. Grant, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, etc. had beards, would you label them as un-proffesional? Finally, look up Colonel Gopal Singh Khalsa (USA), I dare MAJ Robert Petrarca to tell him, "GO AWAY," to his face, let us know how you do!

Response by MSgt Darren VanDerwilt made Nov 16 at 2014 3:39 AM

MSgt Darren VanDerwilt — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 03:39:29 -0500

This individual has been misinformed by his ROTC recruiters. Several Sikh's served and are serving in the Army while keeping to their faith.