The balance between "minding your own business" and making "spot corrections".

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 03:53:21 -0400

I see every day where some soldiers (all different ranks) like to go around and make "spot corrections". For example, a group of soldiers is filling sand bags and the NCOIC allowed the workers to take their tops off. Then someone on their way to Starbucks diverts their course to go over and tell them that they need to "stay in uniform" and then resumes their course to Starbucks. And then there's the famous "Hey you should be wearing your PT belt if you are going to run on the street during the hours of darkness" even though the post policy was just changed allowing soldiers to NOT have to wear their PT belt when running in civies.

At what point do we get past the point of saying "Hooah! Thank you for correcting me!" and politely tell the annoying "corrector" to go find a mission somewhere and mind their own business? There are corrections in accordance with a regulation and/or a policy and then there are subjective opinions that certain people force on us under the illusion of their authority based on their rank. Just because we outrank someone and think we have good idea doesn't mean that we should have the audacity/arrogance to go and order them to do something unless we have a document backing it up. I personally have enough to do getting my own mission accomplished. Unless it involves life/limb/eyesight, I'm staying in my lane and wish others would do the same. Uphold the standards, but stick to written standards, not arbitrary ones out of "AR 600-my opinion" enforced by "PC Rangers".

Response by SGT William B. made Mar 25 at 2014 4:10 AM

SGT William B. — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 04:10:25 -0400

Sir,

This is extremely prevalent on Bagram right now. I got chewed out for wearing a fleece cap (we've had 20-30 degree weather sporadically for a few months now) by a SFC that purposely blocked my path just to tell me that it was too warm to be wearing a fleece cap and gloves. I later found out that the camp policy is that it's to be worn during cold weather, with no stipulation of what exact temperature is considered "cold."

Stupid little things like this irk me. It really does seem like some folks just run out of things to work on, and need to make those OER/NCOER bullets like "Enforced AR 670-1 TO THE LETTER 24/7". It's silliness.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 9 at 2015 1:49 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 13:49:06 -0500

Sir, I really like your "life/limb/eyesight" statement. May I add "good order and discipline also?" The reason that I say is because, for one, you are absolutely right. There are those out there who have the "letter of the law" foremost in their mind and they have blinders on to mitigating and extenuating circumstances like your example of a detail with a NCO in charge. We are ingrained with the "don't walk past a deficiency or you just made a new standard" belief, but there are those times where we witness something that may irk us, but it is being handled by another...using another COA. Let it go. Or, if it bothers you that much, make a note and talk to the person in charge of those folks behind the scenes, or with their supervisor. There are times where the best COA is not to pull over, roll down the window, utter a "you guys are all screwed up, fix yourselves," and drive away. Just take a minute and think about things before you act.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Jan 14 at 2015 10:06 AM

MAJ Jim Steven — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:06:59 -0500

Interesting question and I wish it had gotten more input from the community.

What makes spot corrections complicated for things such as 670-1 is that sometimes the people making the correction arent as informed as they would like to think they are.

For example, I was once told we absolutely could not fly in uniform (based off of a policy memo from a previous time and location)...get on the plane, there are soldiers in uniform. So, can we fly in uniform or can we not (rhetorical question).

The fleece cap is another great example. One person's unit may not be authorized to wear it, while another person's unit is. I was staioned in the midwest, it was cold. We went TDY to Fort Bragg where it was maybe 45 degrees, we joked that it was warm, very warm, yet the gate guards were wearing fleece caps. So, it can also be a matter of perspective.

Unless it is just a grotesque violation that you know would not fly anywhere, I just mind my own business. They guidance and policy letters put out in your formation may not have been put out in mine...

Response by COL Sharon Leary made Jan 15 at 2015 5:08 PM

COL Sharon Leary — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:08:56 -0500

All the comments above make me remember the "death of common sense." We have failed to teach our Soldiers the ART of leadership. There just might NOT be a check list of everything, so a lot of the on the spot corrections are METT-TC. I have done the drive by, from my car and my bicycle in a very BOOMING voice and continued to march. I have STOPPED turned around and corrected Soldiers of all ranks, mainly in Baghdad, where NOT wearing your eye pro, or snapping your throat guard on you IBA would cost you in term of serious injury. If you take 2 seconds before making the correction to access the situation, i.e. obvious work detail or life limb or eye site makes the way you make the corrective action decision. I have also been corrected by a Senior NCO, I failed to take by blue tooth device out of my ear, she quietly came up to me and just said ma'am you still have you blue tooth in your ear... that was all that was needed.. :-) and it take "moral courage" to correct a senior than it does to just let it go... I appreciated the NCO's correction and professionalism

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:33 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:33:54 -0500

There's a fine line between hard and stupid. That being said, at least where I currently work, there is an amazing number of NCOs who don't realize that their authority does not trump Army Regulation. I've actually butted heads many times with SFCs about trivial things such as shaving while off duty or on leave for male Soldiers - which is not specifically covered in regulation but is up to the Commanding Officer to hammer out the definition of "professional appearance" in a policy letter.

I think it comes down to picking your battles. If you are going to enforce the book, you better make sure that you are living by the book 100% of the time. Soldier's will notice the hypocrite and you'll watch your ability to influence soldiers outside of pure obligation diminish.

It's funny you bring up the ACU top because that is always my favorite one to argue in favor of Soldiers for. Yes, in AR 670-1 there is no where (at least that I can find) that says boots, acu pants, and tan t-shirt is a valid uniform. However, when it's 100+ degrees @ 80% humidity and you're conducting manual labor, you're failing as a leader if you aren't attempting heat mitigation.

Just approach these situations with logic. Examine what is going on before reacting and jumping in head first and making an ass out of yourself. It's near impossible to argue with someone who made the logical decision after weighing all the options because you aren't going to be able to effectively rebut their decision making process. In the end you just look like an ineffective leader who care more about his/her authority than the well being and moral of Soldiers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 10:56 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:56:26 -0500

I spent six years in the Marine Corps, 89-95 and have been in the Army since 2006. Although I had such a lengthy break in service I still think like a Marine at times. One of the discussions that has caused such heartache with me, and still does, is uniform standards. It seems to me that there is one Army uniform standard AR 670-1 and that is it, no questions asked. Every time I PCS, I get one of those little books from the post explaining the uniform standards. It seems to me that I should wear my PT belt the same way no matter where I'm stationed don't you think? The only exceptions should be at posts where there is extreme weather, such as Alaska, Wisconsin, or even New York. And what I mean as exceptions is the wearing of the PT cap, for example. But then again, as COL Sharon Leary, mentioned, we shouldn't let common sense die. Bottom line, stop the nonsense, and follow and enforce the Regulation as written and we wouldn't even be having these discussions. I welcome feedback and any and all mentorship.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 2:00 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:00:02 -0400

I agree sir. I think it comes down to the common sense approach.

On mission one time we made a stop to allow our pax to eat chow. Because my Soldiers were in full kit, I allowed then to downgrade when at the truck during our stop, only inside the truck or working on the truck they could remove their armor and headgear to cool off. Only at the truck.

Someone did a drive by correction on them for it without understanding the duration.

Standards are standards, yes. But there is also common sense to take care of the Soldier. Little things like downgrading in the motor pool are important to Soldier welfare and morale.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 2:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:04:59 -0400

I feel you should know updated post policy as well as AR670-1 and check yourself before you go up to someone and tell them the correction.