Tough question. When a Commander goes down for inappropriate conduct, should all of their UCMJ action be reviewed?

SSG Robert Burns — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:04:45 -0500

For example, our last Post Commander at Ft. Jackson was recently busted and relieved for an inappropriate relationship and other things.  He was also known for his zero tolerance policy for the exact same thing.  He actually made a speech about it the day before he was busted.<div>Can you say that his punishments were fair and impartial or even just?  I am sure that some people were guilty, but this eliminates a Commanders credibility and integrity.</div><div>Should these people punished under him be retried so to speak?</div>

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Dec 12 at 2013 6:07 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:07:12 -0500

That depends

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Dec 12 at 2013 6:13 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:13:48 -0500

That I have to leave to someone in the JAG department, since this is beyond my scope to answer properly.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 12 at 2013 6:35 PM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:35:11 -0500

I would say no, there is a formal complaint mechanism already in place ART 138 (only have 90 days to submit) Beyond that you would need to use the appeals process and argue your case in court.  Assuming your talking about Roberts did he make himself convening authority over certain offenses? 

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 12 at 2013 6:36 PM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:36:32 -0500

Should have points deducted for badge hunting, without giving a somewhat legit answer (lol).

Response by SFC Josh Watson made Dec 12 at 2013 7:03 PM

SFC Josh Watson — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:03:20 -0500

Isn't that what they do with Police Officers and Judges? I
don't think a review should be out of the question, since some of his or her
decisions on punishments directed toward subordinates may have been out of
retribution for some sort of whistle blowing. There would have to be a
determination made on whether or not the punishments issued were during the
time of alleged misconduct. I think it would be a good idea. When a Soldier
messes up, isn't it the first line supervisor (an NCO) who gets the scrutiny
and fingers pointed at them? So why would
a commander's decisions at the time of the misconduct not be reviewed?

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 12 at 2013 7:07 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:07:30 -0500

Another example is the last hospital Commander at Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson. He was escorted out by law enforcement after over 30 complaints surfaced. Someone with that many problems I don't believe can be trusted in making decisions that affect peoples lives and careers.

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 12 at 2013 8:22 PM

SFC James Baber — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:22:05 -0500

It would depend on what he/she may have affected with their decisions in reference to life altering, if not then I agree with the Major on the regular timeline appeals process.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Dec 12 at 2013 11:15 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:15:11 -0500

For the sake of punishment, anyone who feels I need to get points taken off, give me a thumbs down here or you can thumbs down me in all my comments I posted here, But I have to help SSG Burns rank up in points so he can get a good rating.

Let the punishment start......

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2013 11:44 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:44:15 -0500

on another note, the whole Roberts thing actually happened not too long after I was at BCT at Ft. Jackson and had actually met him (he and my father used to work together) and received a challenge coin from him. Was totally shocked when I heard not too much later he had been relieved.

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 11 at 2014 11:20 PM

SFC James Baber — Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:20:59 -0500

I think this is a good thread for those we are trying to get to join can see the substance of some things we discuss between us as current and former military, soft spoken as well as informational and mentoring types of postings.

We also have fun at times while remaining professional.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2015 5:33 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:33:18 -0400

The problem and argument then is.... Do you have to take away the rank from all those that were promoted under his hand?? What about all the awards handed out with his signature? What about all the evaluations (good or bad) that he had part in? Do we go back in history and scratch all that because his "credibility and integrity were eliminated"?

In no way do I support what he may have done, but things at that level are filled with red tape and Bureaucracy to the point of no return. What if all UCMJ was redacted and some of those Soldiers were found guilty of more than they were charged with initially or heavier punishments were handed out??

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Mar 31 at 2015 5:49 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:49:15 -0400

This is where watching all those episodes of Law & Order should pay off. What would Jack McCoy do (WWJMD?) I'd review at least a few of the similiar cases he passed judgement on, but I have no idea if that is even an option in the JAG world. WWJMD?

Response by SPC Angel Guma made May 13 at 2015 7:01 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Wed, 13 May 2015 19:01:33 -0400

I would say yes since at that point, the integrity violation would cast doubt on prior UCMJ actions. But, if those prior UCMJ actions still had good cause, probably nothing would come of it. I suppose what would really determine it would be what this 'inappropriate conduct' is. And, I would also say, even then, let the evidence and system work itself out in the case of the commander. These days, if you even look at someone funny, you can get something slapped on you, and that's not always right.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 7:15 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 19:15:10 -0400

I would say no, extremely hypocritical but not worthy of initiating a review in my mind.

IF anything I would like to see if he was more lenient on those who committed similar misconduct compared to other Post Commanders.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made May 13 at 2015 10:53 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Wed, 13 May 2015 22:53:53 -0400

Team!

I'm going to say negative. Punishments/Actions should stand.

Let me explain... While it's been a few years... like 11... since my last time with the CO and UCMJ action... I'm still familiar with the process. We need to consider/remember that a lawyer from the SJA reviews all actions. This is a thorough process and usually fairly straight forward.

We also need to consider that if I, was found guilty of "X" and sentence passed, the CG in this case was a reviewer (I can't remember the actual title anymore) and he/she has a set course of actions he/she may take. Just because they are not of good moral character (neither was I in this case) the judgement/finding on my case should not be altered due "the authority" being morally deficit also.

Example: I go out and get a DUI... I get a Field Grade.... the Battalion Commander gets a DUI... he gets a RFC and a GOMA... and possibly a Field Grade (just for argument and example). He getting a DUI in no way affects him giving me an ART 15 for my DUI.

Hope that made a little sense.

my 2 cents

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2015 1:39 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:39:18 -0400

I think it would depend upon WHY the Commander goes down and the period of time that they use to charge the Commander.

I have heard of a case where a kid was BCD'd from the USMC but almost everything about his case smelled bad. Fast forward a few months and his former CO AND Top (or whatever their equivalent is, lol) got the axe for misconduct. He used this info to appeal his case and, because of the timeframe they were charged for, got his discharge upgraded to Honorable.

Response by SFC Kim Armstrong made Mar 28 at 2017 5:14 PM

SFC Kim Armstrong — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 17:14:20 -0400

The actions of adverse actions depends on the severity and the level of escalation of the offense. If a Soldier wishes to have those actions questioned.The use of IG,or Congesstionals should be utilized.