Traitor and treason. Why do you think we are so afraid to use these terms and apply them to situations that clearly apply?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:36:52 -0500

Are we so afraid of offending someone that we will allow traitorous and treasonous acts, even to the point of our own demise?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 7:39 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:39:39 -0500

I am not looking to create a bomb-throwing dialogue. I want this to be a professional but a thoughtful discussion.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 17 at 2015 7:42 PM

MSgt Michelle Mondia — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:21 -0500

I think we're afraid because these offensive are punishable by death (by firing squad at that)...and in today's politicical climate anyone can be set up using social media and gossip. It would be the Red Scare all over again. You think we're ready for the new McCarthyism? Besides, were all being spied on as it is, no worries.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 17 at 2015 7:46 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:46:08 -0500

I think people are just afraid to call a spade a spade. The media in my opinion is one of the worse in spinning certain situations. For example, some media outlets made Snowden sound like a hero and a whistleblower when in fact he was a traitor and committed treason.

Response by SFC Francisco Roman made Feb 17 at 2015 7:52 PM

SFC Francisco Roman — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:52:27 -0500

In my opinion, I believe that some of our peers are afraid be caused at times 6 out of 10 will find you guilty even when they know that you are not. Who am I to say.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 8:01 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:38 -0500

Do they clearly apply? Treason, in the US has a very specific definition--the only offense defined by the Constitution.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Not only is it very narrow, but the burden of proof is elevated.

Response by PV2 Violet Case made Feb 17 at 2015 8:05 PM

PV2 Violet Case — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:05:43 -0500

I am not afraid to speak out. I always said even to my kids if a person does a crime they should do the time and one day they asked me when they were really little" what if it was the President that did a crime?" I said well my belief stays the same do the crime do the time. Not saying the President has but that was what they asked when they were little and that was over 20 yrs ago. But being a traitor to ones own country is just wrong and should be dealt with appropriately.
I love my country even tho it contaminated me at Fort McClellan what more could happen to me already dying from that. But my flag remains flying and will and no one will tell me to take it down. And no one will tell me I can't say the word Christmas. Because it has the word Christ and may offend someone. But we all fought for our rights and freedoms and my freedom of religion allows me that right.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 17 at 2015 9:02 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:02:35 -0500

Because the terms don't clearly apply.

I'd love to say they do, but they don't.

The Constitution is VERY clear on what Treason is. Article 3, Section 3:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."

1) Make war against the US.
2) Adhering to their (US) enemies
3) Giving them (US enemies) Aid & Comfort

Since the writing of the Constitution we have had less than 40 Federal Prosecutions on Treason. 40. What we have had, was acts that were "similar" to treason, like Espionage, or Sedition, in far greater numbers.

Take the Bradley Manning case. He was tried and ACQUITTED for "Aiding the Enemy." We can call him a traitor all we want, but our Justice System found him Not Guilty of that specific charge.

Our Framers set the Bar HIGH when it came when it came to Treason. They witnessed the abused of English Common Law, and built in Protections so that our Citizenry wouldn't fall victim to the same. Our first few amendments were additional Protections to stop potential government abuses. They knew how quickly they things could go wrong. They had lived it first hand.

Now, here's the question. Who among us is making war with the US? I haven't haven't found anyone that truly meets that definition as of yet. That leaves the second two clauses. That requires a defined "enemy," which unfortunately we do not have. I'd love to say we do, but we cannot use a "boogeyman" like terrorism, as the "enemy" for the purposes of Art 3 Section 3. That would be disingenuous on so many levels.

So if we have no one among us making war, and no true enemy, how can we have treason?

Edit: Duplicate word.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 10:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:09:12 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member This may or may not answer your question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0

George Carlin Shell Shock

this is my tribute to George Carlin. the teacher teaches. i do not own this video.