Wearing a CAB without deployment patch

2015-04-13T12:01:50-04:00

I got hemmed up today because I was not wearing my deployment patch with my combat action badge I looked for a regulation stating they must be worn together but can't find anything. I've never heard of this has anyone else?

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 13 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-04-13T12:04:05-04:00

Why would put yourself in this position? If you are going to take the time to put your CAB on why not take the extra 4 seconds to put your combat patch on regardless if the reg says you have to wear both together or not?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Apr 13 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-04-13T12:13:10-04:00

There isn't a reg covering that, but wearing a badge you get for being in combat without a unit patch saying you were deployed to a combat zone does look suspicious. And with the amount of stolen valor out there today, it's not without reason.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-04-13T12:26:49-04:00

Maybe if you told someone convincingly that you were involved in the Ft. Hood shooting someone may believe you.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-04-13T12:31:10-04:00

If all you got out of it was a little hiney chewing, or a quick smoke session, I wouldn't sweat it. The deployment patch is certainly optional, but I would have called you out on it too. If there's no reg on it, it doesn't really matter, if no one else has ever done it! I hope the NCO who called you out on it bought your explanation, and didn't give you too much crap. Battalion SGM asked me why I wasn't wearing a deployment patch to our welcome home ceremony. I gave him what he accepted as a reasonable answer. He simply wanted to know why.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 12:49 PM

2015-04-13T12:49:00-04:00

It wasn't really an ass chewing he simply said that there was a regulation and I told him there wasn't then he said to re check ar 670-1.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 13 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-04-13T12:50:46-04:00

Am I the only one who see's the human in the choice of words? "Hemmed up."
Oh yea and to answer the question, just move out and draw fire. No big deal, you just looked weird to anyone who's been in the Army for a day. He was right to question you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 1:37 PM

2015-04-13T13:37:24-04:00

Like everyone said it's not technically wrong, but in addition to regulations you need to look at post policies. I know Ft. Campbell or at least 3rd BDE has a policy that you will wear your 101st deployment patch over any other unit you deployed with, if you have deployed with 101st. My SCO put out that you will wear your CAB if you earned one. It depends. It's up to command sometimes.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 13 at 2015 2:36 PM

2015-04-13T14:36:08-04:00

It is a SSI-FWTS, not a deployment patch. That is something Naval personnel will sometimes produce locally for a sea deployment. You can be deployed and not be qualified for a SSI-FWTS.

DAPAM 670-1 para 21–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service
a. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet all the following criteria outlined in AR 670–1.
b. The SSI–FWTS is worn as follows:
(1) Nonsubdued. At the option of the wearer, individuals who were members of an Army unit during one of the operations listed in AR 670–1 may wear the nonsubdued U.S. Army organizational SSI of a wartime unit that was approved by HQDA on the right sleeve of the Army green uniform coat. The insignia is worn centered, 1/2 inch below the top of the shoulder seam.
(2) Subdued. Authorized personnel may wear the subdued SSI–FWTS on the right sleeve centered both vertically and horizontally from the bottom of the pocket flap to the bottom of the pocket on the hook-and-loop-faced pad already provided on the utility uniforms or field jacket (see fig 21–133). The SSI–FWTS is not authorized for wear on organizational uniforms, except as prescribed in this paragraph.
c. Soldiers who are authorized to wear more than one SSI–FWTS have the option of choosing which SSI–FWTS they will wear. Soldiers may also elect not to wear a SSI–FWTS.

Now it says optional, however it can be a local commander's policy to wear a SSI-FWTS. It can also be a local commander's wear policy to wear badges. I would tell you that not wearing both together will invite questions and confrontations.

I was not able to find a linkage in AR 670-1, DA PAM 670-1, nor AR 600-8-22 that says a soldier must wear a SSI-FWTS and a CAB, if so awarded.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-04-13T15:24:49-04:00

I don't believe there is a reg stating you have to wear the patch. BUT, if you wear the CAB but not in conjunction with the patch, you may as well paint a giant bulls-eye right on your chest. Either put the patch on or take the CAB off. Either way, you will want to get out of that line of fire most rikky tik

Response by SGT(P) Khalid Wise made Apr 13 at 2015 3:56 PM

2015-04-13T15:56:01-04:00

As the CIB/CMB/CAB are all published as orders, I recommend a quick scan or download of the orders from your iPERMS to your mobile device. This simple step alleviated this issue for me and my subordinates when I was still in especially if like so many of us you may have had multiple SSI-FWTS during your deployment during which you earned the CAB (my Team Chief and I had both 10th MTN DIV and 513th MI BDE when we earned our CABs and PHs in Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively). Hope this helps ease or alleviate any future heartburn.

As LTC Paul Labrador and several others point out, one of the "red flags" in Stolen Valor is the absence of an appropriate SSI-FWTS (commonly referred to as a combat patch). The current Army Times 20 April 2015 out today has an article you should read that shows stolen valor even occurs on Active Duty as well as Reserves or National Guard (ie. CSM guilty of wearing unearned baadges on page 21). Always Out Front (even from Ft. Living room)!

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made Apr 13 at 2015 5:33 PM

2015-04-13T17:33:20-04:00

This happened to me the other day. My 1SG asked where my FWTS-SSI was (yes he used the entire term). I had given my Airborne tab to another Soldier since theirs had disappeared. Not an ass-chewing, but more of a where is it since I wear my CAB and 1SG knows I had just come back from downrange.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-04-13T17:37:59-04:00

I know guys who wear their CAB minus the combat patch for various reasons. Some are proud of the unit they served with - others are not. I also know guys (and gals) who don't wear any of their badges and some that wear the one they are the most proud of. I do believe whoever hemmed you up was probably in the wrong unless there is a local commander's policy I am not aware of in your situation.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 13 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-04-13T17:47:40-04:00

I knew a few people who could wear just about any combat patch they wanted. In the days of BDU's it was downright hilarious. Every day a different combat patch. It reminded me of Heartbreak Ridge when Gunney Highway showed up to every PT session in a new shirt.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Apr 13 at 2015 6:01 PM

2015-04-13T18:01:12-04:00

why would you bring question upon yourself? if you got a cab, then you obviously got a combat patch. Just slap it on case closed.

Response by SSG Harper Peterson made Apr 13 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-04-13T18:09:06-04:00

Again, the Army is so patch-based they argue about petty things. If you earned it wear it if you wish. If you didn't or don't want to wear it then don't.

Response by CSM Eric Olsen made Apr 13 at 2015 7:03 PM

2015-04-13T19:03:12-04:00

This discussion falls into some commander's love/hate "policy" that all soldiers (O & E) under his/her charge must wear that particular unit's combat patch if the soldier actually qualifies for it. It's certainly not regulation and not really policy letter material; however, the CDRs firepower comes with the "loyalty to unit" premise. I can't say whether I agree, but I must support any CDRs effort to build his unit's esprit de corps. This goes back to your (Wallace) debate in a matter that the CDR can add to but not take away from most regs-his enlisted will initially enforce.
Great discussion, support the command!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 13 at 2015 7:12 PM

2015-04-13T19:12:20-04:00

No such rule. Someone just had free time and likes to make corrections. It is probably a pet peeve vs a rule. The only thing you have to wear is name tag, US Army, US flag and current unit patch.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 13 at 2015 10:07 PM

2015-04-13T22:07:40-04:00

You wear a C*B without a deploy patch and thems that gots them be looking all eyes askew with arm akimbo!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 13 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-04-13T22:42:34-04:00

Put the combat patch on. Move out. Draw fire.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 10:47 PM

2015-04-13T22:47:26-04:00

I think it's a great way to get unwanted attention from a senior NCO, but at the same time the regulation doesn't say anything about having to wear one with the other. I'm sure if you carried the regulation with you at all times and were willing to pull it out and inform the correcting official you'd be good, otherwise I would just wear the patch and avoid any unnecessary confrontation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-04-13T23:01:04-04:00

That might go down as a WTHeck moment! No need for a regulation when U are wearing a CAB without a SSI-FWTS!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 4:44 PM

2015-04-14T16:44:29-04:00

I have been off of the boards here for a bit, but it seems like every time I get on I find another one of these types of posts that really make me question what folks are doing in their spare time.

No, you will not find in any regulation anything stating that you have to wear your CAB and combat patch together, because they are both awards and it has ALWAYS been the Servicemember's discretion of what items they wish to wear. Combat patches are not REQUIRED to be worn, nor are any badges.

Please, I am not advocating that anyone spend their nights reading AR 670-1, but if you are going to CHEW SOMEONE OUT, at least have seen it in writing first...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 9:17 PM

2015-04-14T21:17:44-04:00

I can see where it would raise some eyebrows, but this is small potatoes if you ask me. It's a pet peeve of mine when senior leaders make up requirements that aren't a part of our regulations. Furthermore, if a Commander has the time to worry about whether or not his troops are wearing the "right" SSI-FWTS I would suggest they're neglecting other aspects of their job.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made Apr 15 at 2015 7:47 AM

2015-04-15T07:47:39-04:00

I have been authorized to wear several SSI-FWTS and have always chosen my 82nd patch from Grenada. I ran across this same issue many years ago when I was wearing my first CIB without the patch. That was even before the below ALTRAC message. There is nothing in the regulations that state a Combat Skill Badge "Must" be worn with the SSI-FWTS identifier. Please correct me if I am wrong, it will not be the first time.

ALARACT 030/2005 para 7 (E) - SOLDIERS AUTHORIZED TO WEAR MORE THAN ONE SSI-FWTS MAY CHOOSE WHICH SSI-FWTS TO WEAR. SOLDIERS ALSO MAY ELECT NOT TO WEAR THE SSI-FWTS.

Response by MSG Antwine Marshall made Apr 15 at 2015 9:15 AM

2015-04-15T09:15:16-04:00

As an Inspector General NCO, I love seeing these type of spirited debates. It's an eye-opener to see the many viewpoints that different Soldiers and their commands may hold on topics like the one currently being discussed. It's amazing how often regulatory guidance is ignored and replaced with personal feelings and pet peeves. I appreciate the different points of view. It helps me to better understand these issues when they are brought to me and better understand Leader's mindsets. Very interesting post.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Apr 16 at 2015 2:48 PM

2015-04-16T14:48:12-04:00

I can't say I'm proud of the Brigade my company spent most of our deployments attached to, so I'd avoid that one. Pretty sure most of the company felt the same way.

However, we did fall under the 16th MP for that last bit of the deployment, and that's the one most of us wore after.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Apr 16 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-04-16T14:51:34-04:00

I served with an NCO who had to be ordered to wear his CIB. He had reasons for not wearing it that were completely understandable. Personally, I think he should have been allowed to not wear his CIB but our commander disagreed.

I can understand why someone would be suspicious of a CAB and no unit patch though. How do you have one without the other? I'd expect more of that until you slap on a unit patch or remove the CAB.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-04-16T14:55:28-04:00

It isn't required -- as you know. SSI–FWTS (combat patch) are optional. Would it raise an eyebrow, possibly. However, a simple question would alleviate it (who did you deploy with?). During my last rotation with a Reserve Battalion I know quite a few people who don't wear their patch. For those that received a CAB -- they'd probably put more weight/meaning on the CAB than the unit itself.

As for being questioned about SSI–FWTS -- I always enjoy wearing my "special snowflake" patch from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF-FWD). Definitely have gotten quite a few questions about that, and even told to take it off once (even after showing the exception to policy signed by the G1).

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Apr 16 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-04-16T15:36:11-04:00

AR 670-1 Is not the only guidance on the wear and appearance of the military uniform. Your Battalion Commander also has limited authority on deciding this.

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Apr 16 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-04-16T16:08:16-04:00

Army Regulation 670-1 states: 10. SOLDIERS AUTHORIZED TO WEAR MORE THAN ONE SSI-FWTS MAY CHOOSE WHICH SSI-FWTS
THEY WEAR. SOLDIERS MAY ALSO ELECT NOT TO WEAR THE SSI-FWTS. As it says in the regulation; 'May' and not 'Must.' I wore my CMB while in service, but at times didn't wore my combat patch because of the same based on this regulation.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 6:01 PM

2015-04-16T18:01:54-04:00

Not according to AR 670-1

If you do it you are basically saying "I'm showing off that I understand the regulations and want to piss of SNCOs."

Response by SSG Eric Eck made Apr 16 at 2015 6:22 PM

2015-04-16T18:22:38-04:00

f. Soldiers authorized to wear more than one SSI–FWTS may choose which SSI–FWTS they wear. Soldiers also
may elect not to wear the SSI–FWTS. Pg. 327, AR 670-1.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 7:05 AM

2015-04-17T07:05:19-04:00

It is not in the regulation, however "Left Must Equal Right." How can you have a CAB if you don't have a deployment patch?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 12:52 PM

2015-04-17T12:52:32-04:00

There is nothing in the reg that states you have to wear your combat patch with your cab but it does have a clause in it that says the Aproving Authority for your unit can add stipulations to the minimum requirements. My recomendation to you is to talk with your command and find out what the policy is on your post for the wear of the CAB.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 11:30 PM

2015-04-17T23:30:22-04:00

I'm a marine. And that would be like seeing someone with a combat action badge and not a deployment ribbon. 99% unlikely to happen soooo wear the shit you rate or have it taken away. Ik the army likes wearing a lot of patches like the Girl Scouts so hey own that shit lmao( that was a friendly jest so if you get butt hert go fuck yourself).

Response by SPC Matt Johnson made Apr 18 at 2015 2:23 AM

2015-04-18T02:23:58-04:00

I got my 82nd Airborne(Airborne Alcoholics) combat patch and 2 others. 82nd is only one I wore because it was the one I was most proud of even though I was never awarded anything. I was a fuel guy in an infantry unit. Anyone that wasn't infantry didn't get awards. You got coins and handshakes if you where non-infantry no matter how many missions you went on. Plus they didn't have a the CAB when I was with them. I didn't get one till my 3rd deployment when I was with the 1st Cav. got my golden spurs as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 4:39 AM

2015-04-18T04:39:44-04:00

I would probably question it if I saw it but I wouldn't make a big deal about it. Wearing your combat patch is your choice and not having it on is not wrong. Some people get offended by that and I personally feel that if you've earned the combat patch then you should proudly wear it. Don't let it get to you too much and I'm sure someone is making a suggestion to make it mandatory to wear one if you've earned it but until then it's completely your choice.

Response by SSG Nick Tramontano made Apr 18 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-04-18T15:46:36-04:00

You have everything else, why can't you just put the patch on ! I have 3 different combat patches I can wear and I don't have a fancy 'Hand Grenade Badge' (CAB) due to someone screwing up the paperwork. Anyway, Is it you cant afford the patch or you're just being a 'Richard Cranium' ??

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-04-18T22:18:21-04:00

Since you earned your CAB in combat, you should be wearing your combat patch....just my opinion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 10:22 PM

2015-04-18T22:22:40-04:00

I agree that you opened yourself up to scrutiny, but I wouldn't have chewed you out, personally. I would have inquired as to what the deal was. But EOF in mind, simply asking the question usually suffices.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 10:24 PM

2015-04-18T22:24:04-04:00

Per 670-1 both Pam & AR, you don't have to wear either, or both.

Response by SSG(P) Timme Jones made Apr 19 at 2015 1:42 AM

2015-04-19T01:42:14-04:00

I usually do not wear any of my badges or deployment patch, due to the fact that I know what I have accomplished and I do not need to impress anyone

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 2:33 PM

2015-04-19T14:33:41-04:00

I don't even wear my CAB. The purpose behind the award is lost. I know and my soldiers now what I have been through, I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Response by CPL Bryan Claeys made Apr 22 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-04-22T12:56:00-04:00

In my personal opinion I'd say they go hand in hand. Wear both your combat patch and CAB or don't wear either. You may not be proud of your combat unit but be proud for your own personal service and for your brothers and sisters in arms from your combat unit that didn't have a chance to wear their deployment patch because they didn't come home.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 21 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-05-21T14:34:41-04:00

Slap the damn patch on. The Army ain't Burger King - you can't have it your own way. If not expect a counseling statement.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 28 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-05-28T16:40:28-04:00

There isn't.

Response by SSG Demetrius Davis made May 30 at 2015 3:59 PM

2015-05-30T15:59:21-04:00

You will not find anything stating they must be worn together. If you are authorize to wear one, or many, SSI-FWTS you have the option of wearing which ever you choose or none at all. Unfortunately there are those in command who think they have the power to tell you which one to wear while under their command. What's even more unfortunate is there some leaders are too weak to challenge a policy that is not ligit.

Response by SFC Bruce Pettengill made Jul 1 at 2016 1:54 PM

2016-07-01T13:54:25-04:00

There is no requirement for wear of the deployment patch and orders are not created to authorize it. Soldiers are also not required to wear one, and if they can wear more than one then Soldiers can alternate from one to another, but they cannot wear more than one at a time. AR 670-1

Congrats on your CAB

Response by SFC Henry C Davis made Mar 24 at 2018 4:14 PM

2018-03-24T16:14:42-04:00

I am retired.Retired March 1 1982 Army
They can’t find my DD214 can anyone help me?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 4:39 PM

2018-03-24T16:39:02-04:00

It Just keeps away unwanted attention

Response by SPC Patrick Fox made Mar 25 at 2018 1:43 AM

2018-03-25T01:43:15-04:00

What is a "deployment patch"?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 25 at 2018 12:00 PM

2018-03-25T12:00:21-04:00

So you are in essence saying that the Badge is great, but you are ashamed of serving in the unit that enabled the badge? Think, if I saw you on the street without both, you would likely have been be in my office making an explanation. It screams of possible stolen valor, or impersonation.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Mar 25 at 2018 6:25 PM

2018-03-25T18:25:01-04:00

Likely a unit guidance. Both units I was apart of verbally discouraged wearing a CIB without wearing a right sleeve patch. I know several people I deployed with who disagree with the guidance and don't wear either a CIB or right sleeve patch as a result.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 25 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-03-25T18:49:20-04:00

Did the more senior person who hemmed you up have neither? Sometimes those personnel get kinda salty.

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Mar 25 at 2018 8:02 PM

2018-03-25T20:02:26-04:00

You are not required to wear your former wartime service shoulder sleeve insignia FWTS/SSI commonly called combat patch or deployment patch assuming you're authorized to wear one to begin with. Most people choose to wear theirs some choose not to, technically the only identifying marks that you are required to wear on your uniform or your name tape US Army tape rank current unit patch and the US flag , however as many have already stated if you are wearing a CAB and don't have your combat patch on it is going to raise a question whether or not you're a px Ranger. And don't have your combat patch on it is going to raise a question whether or not you are a PX Ranger.
If and when the Army chooses to change the regulation when it comes to your particular issue then it'll be clear, until then using a little bit of Common Sense that would have Ward you getting hemmed up as you stated goes a long way. Now I'm not saying that the individual who corrected you did it in the right way or maybe they did but if somebody is doing on the spot correction and especially if they are ranked you you can just calmly explain yourself and make the correction necessary. In my humble personal opinion if you're not going to wear one the one where the other.

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Aug 23 at 2018 2:57 PM

2018-08-23T14:57:00-04:00

Wow SGT Wallace, it call comment cents therefore AR670-1 can explain it clearly but I am confused when a NCO ask shut questions wow!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2019 4:39 PM

2019-04-16T16:39:12-04:00

Regulation actually states that you may NOT be required to wear a combat patch, period. So they can question how you earned it, but all you gotta do is say you just don't wear your combat patch, although you are authorized one. I processed a few recommendations for CAB and nowhere in the paperwork I filled out do I recall it asking if the Soldiers had been authorized a combat patch. Hell, you can technically earn a CAB without meeting the time in country requirements for a combat patch. To earn a CAB, you only need ONE major incident, so someone could fly in for a special event, come under fire that qualifies, then depart after it is all over! I doubt it's ever actually happened, but it's possible!

Response by CPT William Jones made Jul 14 at 2019 8:12 PM

2019-07-14T20:12:18-04:00

Wearing one without the other your choice. I was in when subdued patches came out for RVN service and started spreading everywhere. My BN CO. A Ltc (tank and branch were worn on collar points then) wore branch subdued and rank as colored( silver leaf) regs didn’t specify only subdued or colored. If regs don’t specify you get to chose. If they don’t say you can’t do something you can do it at least once

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Sep 8 at 2019 6:33 PM

2019-09-08T18:33:12-04:00

I’m not aware of any such requirement.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Aug 30 at 2020 3:48 PM

2020-08-30T15:48:53-04:00

No such reg, don't have to wear combat patch

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 4 at 2021 2:50 PM

2021-01-04T14:50:33-05:00

Wearing a "combat patch" means you were assighned to a certian geographic area during a certain period of time Wearing a combat action badgeyou enguaged with the enemy in some sort of described manner and you could have sustained some sort of injury. Other words in a certain area everyone get to wear a shoulder patch but similar to the CIB only a few get the CAB and it is not MOS restricted.