What APFT standard should transgender service members be held to and why?

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:35:09 -0400

Response by SGT Laura Delgadillo made Jul 6 at 2016 4:36 PM

SGT Laura Delgadillo — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:36:30 -0400

This has already been determined by DODI 1300.28
Service members will be graded to the gender on their ERB.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 4:36 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:36:53 -0400

Had my ass kicked by pleanty of women in an APFT, have kicked the assess of pleanty of men. I don't buy into the two standard thing, I'd trust any woman I know to pull me out when the time came.

Response by SSG Patricia King made Jul 6 at 2016 4:37 PM

SSG Patricia King — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:37:47 -0400

Transgender service members will be held to standards similar to the International Olympic Committed and the NCAA. Both organizations have determined that after 12 months of sustained cross sex hormone use a persons physiology has changed to be consistent of a person at their activity level in their target gender.
That is to say, a person will have had a transfer of fat and either loss or gain of muscle mass consistent with others in their gender.
The science and medicine have been peer reviewed and anecdotally tested within the athletic community.

Response by SSG Jacey R. made Jul 6 at 2016 4:52 PM

SSG Jacey R. — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 16:52:21 -0400

As being transgender myself, and I have been on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for over 3 years. For male-to-female, with estrogen and androgen blockers strength and muscle mass decrease, as well a weight and fat distribution are some of the changes to the body. For female-to-male with testosterone, it will have the same effect as to other men. These changes are slow and happen gradually over a few years, I would be uncertain as to when a change in the standard should be.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 5:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 17:01:46 -0400

They have to win the Olympic Decathalon (either gender)

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 6 at 2016 5:47 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 17:47:47 -0400

Keep in mind that the (Army) Physical Fitness Test is SUPPOSED to be a HEALTH test. Over the years we have added lots of "incentives" to for scoring high on it, namely by tying it to Promotion (as an example).

If we are only looking at it for its designed purpose, then we use medical science for the appropriate grading criteria. As SGT Laura Delgadillo has pointed out, the Standard is already set per DoD instruction. However, Endurance and Olympic Sporting has already pointed out the underlying science and philosophy as to why.

This discussion is no different than why Males & Females have different scoring standards, as well as different ages. The Science says we should (assuming we have a "score"). The is merely a nuance of that.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 6:31 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:31:07 -0400

whichever one they want.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 6 at 2016 6:58 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:58:09 -0400

I never worried about others standards, I was only concerned about the standards that apply to me, but the were a few guys that bitched about women PT standards and how easy they consider the women standards; this guys were just bitches, bitch, bitch.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 7:18 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 19:18:34 -0400

Pre-transition...birth gender. Post transition, identifying gender. The hormones and the surgery effectively create the transition.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jul 6 at 2016 7:46 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 19:46:38 -0400

I think that the military in general would be far better off if everyone quit worrying about PT tests and getting medals for nothing and concentrated on learning how to actually do their jobs.

Response by CPL Patrick Brewbaker made Jul 6 at 2016 8:42 PM

CPL Patrick Brewbaker — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 20:42:27 -0400

Total BS. Obama is destroying the military to for his personal picadilos. Read Romans 1.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 9:44 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 09:44:14 -0400

Call me old fashioned. Penis=Man Vagina=Woman

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 12:05 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 12:05:46 -0400

It's already been answered many times over, and this is such a small problem that it will only effect a handful of people and their commands. Service members will be held to the standards consistent to their gender as listed in DEERS. That's the regulation.

Response by SSG Jason Wetenkamp made Jul 7 at 2016 12:08 PM

SSG Jason Wetenkamp — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 12:08:20 -0400

It all depends on what gender they transferred out of? In its simplest terms a male is basically a tool and means to carry and protect offspring since the dawn of man and its structure is angled and set up different from a woman. Larger muscle groups, hip and leg angles are squarer, etc. When a transgender undergoes surgery and goes male to female takes estrogen and decreases muscle mass for becoming a woman the previous capability of being truly male decreases and therefore APFT scores must be adjusted. Now female APFT scores for female changing to male need to go up slightly as the reverse happens. Estrogen is replaced by increased testosterone and the body develops increased size, shape, and muscle strength making a higher and easily passive score possible. The whole system will have to score differently as a 3rd group of service member is in our military! It's easy. Max points for push-ups is 82 for men and 62 for women, EVERY MEMBER MUST DO 72 to earn max points in the push up event! See what I did there? I averaged the high and low and made a new transgender APFT standard in 3 seconds! You don't need to rewrite any standards you just change the numbers so they fit!