What are your thoughts on an Atlanta suburb's controversial decision to deny the building of a mosque?

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:14:27 -0500

City of Kennesaw, GA, council ruled against building a mosque in a busy shopping center. Good call or violation of the 1st?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/3/mosque-proposal-rejected-by-kennesaw-georgia-city-/

My take: as much controversy as Islam has caused for centuries, they shouldn't be denied to build mosques. One can may impose limitations on it, impose criteria that will provide strong accountability for peaceful assembly, but not outright deny it.

If anything, people of Kennesaw should've been distributed ballots house to house and present it to the council, not council taking it into their own hands and voting down on the mosque.

It's now a ticking time bomb of potential state and federal intervention in my opinion.

Your turn

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Dec 6 at 2014 8:38 AM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:38:49 -0500

Purely hateful, ignorant and stereotypical behavior out of Georgia. I can't see how it isn't unconstitutional.

On one hand, we as Americans are so sick go the government doing as they please without accountability or permission from us, the people who pay taxes.
On the other hand, some of those same people who complain about the government (to include lower level governments like in this case), support this type of nonsense.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 8:52 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:52:10 -0500

Agree with SSG Justin McCoy. If this were a Baptist or a Catholic church and residents were protesting its construction, there would be an uproar. And then I agree with you, PO1 Private RallyPoint Member, I guess. Are the Muslims going to assemble in a "non-peaceable" manner? I doubt it. Same could be said for the Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, etc.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Dec 6 at 2014 9:02 AM

SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:02:11 -0500

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member There is such a difference between Muslims and radical Islam. This misunderstanding is purvasive throughout the US. Our Republic was founded based on religious freedom and while recognizin a potential for debate, do not see a valid need or reason to deny the Muslim community a place of worship.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 6 at 2014 9:17 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:17:19 -0500

The South is predominantly Christian, and my guess is the Council is as well.

That does not make it right to deny a church.

At the end of the day, I could care less what you think is the right religion. I am firm with my beliefs, that I push on nobody. In my opinion, those beliefs are correct and correctly placed. Others might, for example Muslims, think that my beliefs are misplaced. That is their prerogative.

I am fine with people's freedom of religion, so long as they peacefully believe. My problem with religion comes in when hatred, violence, beheadings etc come into play. When the people of a particular faith feel the necessity to kill anyone who is not of their same belief.

I don't care if you worship a tree.

All that being said. If it is determined that the first penny from that church/mosque/temple goes to support terrorism, it should be seized and leveled.

Church/faith is about tolerance and peace.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Dec 6 at 2014 10:23 AM

1SG Eric Rice — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 10:23:07 -0500

In my personal opinion there should not be any religious buildings, churches, or mosques in a shopping center. In this instance it does not matter what religion it is and seems to be more of a provoking gesture than a common sense assessment of religious facilities placement. If the mosque location was being proposed in a location other than a busy shopping center then I would say it is a potential violation.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 11:02 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 11:02:28 -0500

There are many factors included with a situation like this. I believe that this move is unconstitutional and if Christians were subject to this treatment they'd be in a uproar. With that being said, Islam isn't the only one faced with judgment. Certain communities constantly deny the building of certain religious establishments simply because it's a religion different from theirs. It happens on a regular. Now let's move on to terrorism and how it connects directly to Islam. Many of us are confused, jaded, uninformed of the intent of their religion. What we see is beheadings, terrorism and death. Are we wrong to see it that way? Not really. Are we being ignorant to believe each and every member of that religion has terrorist like tendencies? Ignorance doesn't even come close to explaining it.

I will say this. For a religion that proposes peace and many legitimate practices, one thing they lack is accountability. There are many members of that religion whom are destroying their image and beliefs. Why don't they stand up against the radicals? What are they doing to stop or fight it? Nothing that I can see from here. God forbid we have a stigma formed on their religion. We just made this connection out of nowhere and believe their religion to be of negative roots because we made it up. This is a very conflicting issue.

In my most honest opinion I don't want that mosque there either. Why would you want a mosque in a mall anyways? The reason is because I don't want their religion spreading more than it already has in this country. I don't want their religion to be the majority one day. I fear the day that our country adopts the culture of terrorism and psychotic tendencies even though there is a small percentage of muslims whom are radical. That percentage is enough to unsettle me. I am afraid we have already adopted certain terrorist like behavior here as we had a few beheadings and our history with terrorism in our country isn't minor. I like my freedom and enjoy not being affiliated with any religious party. I want it to remain that way. I don't want ridiculous scrutiny on what I believe, say, wear, eat or drink like in many countries that foster certain religions. I just do not want religion controlling politics, for now the conditions are tolerable when it comes to religion and politics in the U.S. The muslim culture is strong willed and the percentage of extreme punishments(the way they treat their women for example) although not huge and not from all muslims, still makes me uncomfortable. We have many other religions that are very authoritative but not so many are as extreme as certain muslims. These are my deepest concerns on this matter. I may have not articulated myself fully and may have left out other points and posed worst case scenarios but this is how I truly feel in regards to this. I digress... My feelings are just that, feelings.

There are rules we have to uphold and I still believe that denying them the right to build a mosque is unconstitutional. I can safely say they're denying them the right to practice their religion even if they claim that it's the building that they're not allowing.

Update: I just took a shower, which gave me time to think a little more and clear my head. I was able to better pinpoint my feelings on Muslims. It's the amount of control their religion has over their everyday life that concerns me. I am not one to be controlled; I like to forge my own path. So for Islam to control the way people dress, speak, eat, and behave is problematic for me. I will elaborate on the history a bit. Historically, other religions also had extreme control over their religions. That's in many senses (depending on how you look at it) why they were created in the first place; to teach people how to live a "better life." These religions, though, have evolved with time. Islam has not necessarily evolved that much, as it still controls many aspects of a person's daily life. I think of people I know who are extremely Catholic or Jewish. Upon first meeting them or viewing them, you wouldn't know they are super religious because the religions don't have a hold on their dress, way of speaking, or ways of interacting. The religious side, I suppose, is more isolated. However, it seems that when it comes to Islam, we can tell right away that they are Muslim, and that is for the above reasons. So it is this amount of control that bothers me more than anything else, and that's a personal thing for me and my character.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Dec 6 at 2014 3:30 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 15:30:39 -0500

We can't just build what we want where we want. Urban Planning, zoning permits, public support, there are a myriad of issues that go into the development of an area. Just because something CAN be zoned for a church (no matter what faith), doesn't mean that we wave the wand and voila. I live in Arizona and had no idea that there was such an intense Mormon presence. There are areas where there are elegant Mormon churches facing each other. I will never understand it, but I never felt like it was news worthy. Hate and fear are universal. No one religion owns the rights to extremism.

Response by SPC Richard White made Dec 6 at 2014 5:45 PM

SPC Richard White — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:45:27 -0500

Sorry to be like this but my attitude has become bitter towards Islam.I feel they are infiltrating our country and we have been fighting against them for several years now.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 7:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 19:36:19 -0500

The freedom to hold and practice religious beliefs according to your own conscience, without interference or dictation by government, is one of this country’s oldest and most cherished political rights.

In many respects the erection and operation of places of worship-churches, synagogues, mosques, temples-raise the same land-use issues as are presented with the location and operation of any place of assembly. Is there adequate parking, utility service, and sufficient access to the site? Is the structure’s scale compatible with the neighborhood? However, religious land-uses can also present some unique questions. Are religiously sponsored schools and day care facilities included within permitted “places of worship”? Even the fundamental question of what constitutes a “religion” is not without controversy.

Does the church have to comply with the city’s land-use ordinances? Well the city attorney laid out some restrictions and the group agreed to abide by them: number of paring spaces, number of worshipers, 2 year lease etc. Many land-use regulations affect the exercise of religion to some degree. Zoning districts define what uses can be located on a particular site and they may exclude houses of worship, as well as other uses sponsored by religious bodies, such as schools, day-care facilities, homeless shelters, or food banks. So does this worship center comply with the city ordinances in which it is to be located.

In Kennesaw, the practice of a religion previously known/unknown in the community wants a worship center temporarily much to the consternation of the neighbors. In these situations, the conflict between the free exercise of religion and the land-use concerns of neighbors and local governments can be intense.

Much of the litigation regarding the U.S. Constitution’s protection of religious freedom has focused on the Establishment Clause. Numerous cases have addressed such issues as whether prayer can be conducted in public schools, whether tax dollars can be spent at parochial schools, whether school facilities can be used by religious groups, whether religious displays can be erected on public property, or whether businesses can be required to close on Sundays. So will this worship center require businesses to be closed during times of certain religious observances?

Land-use regulations must be neutrally applied to all religious uses with similar land-use impacts. It is impermissible for a regulation to be targeted at minority or unpopular religious uses while exempting mainstream religious uses with similar land-use impacts. A land-use regulation must be “religiously neutral.”

Lets jump into constitutionality. The First Amendment both prohibits the establishment of a state religion and protects individuals in their free exercise of religion: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” So Georgia probably has a provision in there state constitution for freedom of religion as well. A governmental regulation that is aimed solely at preventing the exercise of a religious belief is invalid. So was the city councils decision valid? Did they have the right not to allow members of a faith group to peacefully assemble to practice their religious beliefs?

Did the council act accordingly? Was their vote based on a decision based on religion or based on something else? We don't know yet as this looks like its going to court.

I will give you an example of such a case similar to whats happening in Kennesaw:
http://digitalcommons.law.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1141&context=jpl (see page 403)

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Jan 7 at 2015 12:45 PM

MSG Mitch Dowler — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:45:19 -0500

This is a retail space they wanted to lease, not a location zoned for this type of use. Islam does support terrorism. Those who practice radical Islam murder Christians, gays and anyone they disagree with. Those who practice moderate Islam contribute money and provide other support to those who murder Christians, gays and anyone they disagree with.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 11:35 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 23:35:01 -0500

I believe if these groups were out front in condemning violence perpetrated around the world then that might set some at ease. The problem is this information about criticizing Islam if off-limits or talk about the Crusades. Very not lately. lol

Response by PO3 Jeff Lane made Jan 8 at 2015 12:45 AM

PO3 Jeff Lane — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 00:45:09 -0500

Tough one here. The more that is learned about what goes on inside these peaceful mosques the less I trust the building of new ones. Talking peace on the outside isn't the same as what is being taught on the inside. I just don't see it as a peaceful religion.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 15 at 2015 5:51 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:51:25 -0500

Complete violation of the first.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall