What are your thoughts on making on the spot corrections after service?

2015-02-03T12:35:47-05:00

For those who have left the service, but still have contact with Service Members, how do you handle uniform or other regulation violations? Do you say something and make the correction? Do you keep your mouth shut and carry on about your business?

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 3 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-02-03T12:44:13-05:00

No longer in a position of authority to do so.

However that doesn't mean we aren't in a position to advise on occasion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-02-03T13:16:23-05:00

Long long time ago, I was leaving Basic and heading towards my AIT station. At the airport, I was wearing class A uniform, but the collar became messed up as a result of me carrying a shoulder bag. A polite older man came up to me, joked around a bit, and fixed my collar. He later told one of my fellow soldiers travelling from boot camp that he is a retired CSM. You can correct, but do so subtly.

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Feb 3 at 2015 1:24 PM

2015-02-03T13:24:43-05:00

I see it as a responsibility to assist, mentoring and correction don't just go away. We are bonded by our Service and if there is an opportunity to help, by all means, do so.
Now for the flagrant Members that MUST know they are beyond the pale...

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Feb 3 at 2015 1:51 PM

2015-02-03T13:51:30-05:00

I still make on-the-spot corrections when I see something amiss, although I am probably more in the "helpful" mode than I used to be when on active duty. I have not had to do many, but every one of them were receptive and courteous.

Not sure how I would have reacted (or will react) if someone tells me to go pound sand or something. You would probably read about me in the paper... :-) I certainly would not just walk away..

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Feb 3 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-02-03T14:09:50-05:00

Gently, with tact, and only when you know your 100% in the right. Things change.

Story time: A long time ago in 1999. I was home on leave and wore service dress to church (as was "required" by my grandmother) and had a retired CMSgt come up to me before church service and literally chew me out for having the "wrong collar brass" because I had the US lapel pins without the circles on them and "those are for "Officers only" and he wanted to know who my Chief was so he could call him on Monday... I politely told him that the Air Force didn't have "officer" or "enlisted" US lapel pins and this is what I was issued in basic he proceeded to continue on to his rant that I was a dirt bag for not having the right brass and worse not knowing the difference.

Fast forward to Monday morning, I get called in to my Chief's office. He asked me if I was home that week? When I confirmed that I was, he chucked and picked up the phone. He then proceed to tell the person on the other end of the phone that indeed that there is only one set of collar brass in the Air Force for both officers and enlisted and it does not have circles are around it. That was done away with a several years before by Gen McPeak and that his Airman was completely compliant with AFI 36-2903. I was dismissed but told to wait in my office for the next 30 minutes.

About 10 minutes after I got back to my office, the phone there rang and it was the retired Chief from the weekend calling to apologize for his un-Chiefly behavior (likely at the prodding of my Chief).

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 3 at 2015 2:36 PM

2015-02-03T14:36:14-05:00

Very carefully and it usually the more common stuff. For example, I see an NCO with his collar turned up I will tell them about it. Right after the ACU came out I had a MSG come to the help desk window with her name tapes backwards and she had walked around HQ FORSCOM all day this was 2:30PM when I finally corrected her.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Feb 3 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-02-03T14:50:57-05:00

I've thought about this a bit since I retired. My opinion is that for a vet or retiree, on the spot corrections are probably inappropriate given policies change.

Moments that seem to violate standards or bring discredit to the services, however, are great conversation starters that may lead to polite mentoring. It's not a change in responsibility, just approach.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 5:00 PM

2015-02-03T17:00:26-05:00

I am still currently in the Army, but soon to get out. My opinion on correction, though, in the situation of being out of the Army is that it should still be corrected. I'm not very tactful in the way I speak, so I don't tend to correct. I've only seen a few times where the need could have been addressed, though. And even though I have read most of AR 670-1, if not all, by now, sometimes I'm not sure. In conclusion and overall - yes to correction, but be tactful and if you aren't sure if you are right, even if you are sure, bring the regulation to them. Most people have phones, and can check the internet quickly to make sure they are correcting correctly.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 5:06 PM

2015-02-03T17:06:38-05:00

I would make the correction. If you know that you are correct, use tact and make the correction for the plain and simple fact that you did serve and know what rift looks like.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 2:02 AM

2015-02-04T02:02:50-05:00

Like a Jedi, I get a tingling feeling whenever a Soldier within a mile of me is doing something they shouldn't or their uniform is out of regs - it's a CSM thing.

Nowadays, I usually make a very light and good natured remark that causes the Soldier to fix themselves with a smile on their face. I don't go looking for them and I have no authority to do anything else. Retirement is making me soft, but the force is still strong.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Feb 4 at 2015 8:59 AM

2015-02-04T08:59:56-05:00

So...even after you get out, you are staying current on 670-1 and local SOPs....that is scary.

Response by SSG Lisa Rendina made Feb 4 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-02-04T10:02:12-05:00

I've only made one correction since leaving the service. I was off post and a soldier was walking out of a store wearing his ACU pants, boots and tan t-shirt. I wanted to be sure that he was actually a soldier and not some idiot that shopped a surplus store, so I asked. He was an AIT student and I went a little crazy on him when he told me that he was, in fact, in the military and that his ACU top and PC were in his car.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 2:24 PM

2015-02-04T14:24:48-05:00

As a Veteran I would not make a correction unless it was something outrageous or disrespectful towards the Uniform or Military.

I know that I would not be up to date on all regulations and prefer not to correct someone without being ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE I am correct.

Good Question though SSG Lisa Rendina. The Soldiers these days are so touchy that they try to spin everything against the Leader. Very trying times for sure.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-02-04T18:53:23-05:00

My take on this is, so long as you keep up with the regs and are tactful with your delivery, make the on the spot correction. It's not about authority based upon rank; I made corrections to officers as an E-4. I feel that anyone who has worn the uniform has the right (in addition to the requisite knowledge) to do so.

Response by PO2 Seth Carron made Jun 24 at 2018 4:20 PM

2018-06-24T16:20:23-04:00

If it's a uniform regulation issue, I probably wont do much considering the constant changes that go on. But if someone's uniform looks like they slept in it then I'm gonna say something in a very blunt manner.

Response by SCPO William Akin made Jun 24 at 2018 4:55 PM

2018-06-24T16:55:14-04:00

The Navy changes uniform so often it would/is impossible to know what is correct.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 24 at 2018 6:54 PM

2018-06-24T18:54:00-04:00

I assume the person is a professional and knows how to wear their uniform and to conduct themselves in public. I approach them from the perspective of discretely pointing out the discrepancy in a way that produces the least embarrassment, and offer to render assistance if they would like some.

I've been thanked... and I've been told to "#*%@ off."

Response by SGT Randy Bordner made Jun 24 at 2018 7:29 PM

2018-06-24T19:29:25-04:00

I am ex-army and one day I was behind a Marine and his friend in dress blues; they were going to the Marine Corps Ball. I noticed a problem his belt, tapped his shoulder and suggested he check it. They were thankful I mentioned it; better coming from me than a senior NCO.

Response by SFC Robert Townsend made Jun 25 at 2018 10:02 AM

2018-06-25T10:02:44-04:00

Yes if you see something wrong and if you walk past it you endorse it. If you are in a leadership position you better know how to wear a uniform and how to handle a situation.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 25 at 2018 5:43 PM

2018-06-25T17:43:36-04:00

As an NCO, I make corrections, if they refuse to fix it- I go hunting their CoC. Old habits never go away.

Response by SPC Charlie Robinson made Jun 25 at 2018 11:05 PM

2018-06-25T23:05:44-04:00

Would not do it at all. I've been out too long, 1967.

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made Jun 26 at 2018 8:21 PM

2018-06-26T20:21:09-04:00

Parking lots like Walmart or Publix's military going to their cars without a hat on drives me insane. I just tell them that I would appreciate it if you put you're cover on. Most of the time they snap it on their head not knowing who or what I am.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 3:36 PM

2018-07-19T15:36:23-04:00

Knowing that I’ve been there and done that, just with tact and courtesy, even though I’m not “out”. Tend to not tell them who I am, just smile, tap the area (cover, rank, collar, etc), and mention the correction. Only had one person look at me funny, I was in civvies, traveling in the airport on orders, and there was a navy Midshipman 2nd class in summer whites that didn’t look quite right. Looked it up, and his shoulder boards were on the wrong side (the anchor’s tail goes aft). Whispered it to him, and told him that I too had been corrected back in my days as a MIDN, and not so nicely. But, funny look, and “are you sure?” Funny thing, about that time another MIDN 2/c came up, and hers were on correctly. So, tactfully, nicely, respectfully, just as it’s been done for me when I was jacked up.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jul 29 at 2019 1:10 AM

2019-07-29T01:10:29-04:00

I never had to do it after I'd gotten out, though I did have to do it twice when I was in, once at USAF OTS, I'd been walking with my family for when I'd finished, another OT walking with with a friend had sunglasses on, despite the Commandant expressly forbidding them, I had to give him a demerit...the other time, I was getting mail at the enlisted barracks where I was assigned, we in the BOQ had to go over there for our mail...there was a younger airman with an open fatigue shirt and an open beer can, yelling across the parking lot with two more senior NCOs...I just stopped and stared...and stared...and stared...finally, one of the two more senior NCOs said to close the shirt, quiet down, and lose the beer can, that was the only time I ever had to do that for real, after OTS...then, another day, I'd been with the base commander for a day...needless to say, I was really careful to be absolutely immaculate, the base had a program for new Lts to do that, I was told to go by the O-3 I was under then...the base commander, and O-6, and I, had parked his staff car, I'd been in the front seat with him, going to a briefing for the O-9 of the installation, he got out just as a younger airman walked out of the Hq bldg with his uniform askew, the O-6 base commander called out, "Young man", walked over, the younger airman obv saluted, the Col corrected him, I couldn't hear what was said, I kept my yap shut, obv...that was the only other time I had to see anything like that...once at OTS, the Commandant, an O-6, would drive around in his staff car with the eagle plate, thank God I'd seen him one day passing me, I whipped one off, he whipped one back...then, another time, the O-9 where I'd been assigned passed me in his 3-star plate staff car, I saw him, thank God, and did the same, he whipped one back, those are the only times that sort of stuff ever happened to me, though not after I'd gotten out, as I'd said....

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 29 at 2019 9:23 AM

2019-07-29T09:23:36-04:00

I retired in '93 - There are a lot of changes. I do however find a lot of posers out there. Some of them served but their war stories I heard before (surely not) from other vets. It's like the 2LT in the wall locker that was thrown out the third floor window at you-name-it. I heard that in Korea when all we had were Quonset Huts. Hmmm...

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jul 29 at 2019 9:24 AM

2019-07-29T09:24:11-04:00

If I see a person and they are totally RAG BAG I just laugh and walk away, don't get me wrong it is not easy to do. On some Occasions the individual will ask what I am laughing about but for the most part the are lost and no one has tried to fix them so far be it from me to get involved to much changes.
No if I see some thing like a patch upside down or missing one strip or something I will mention it other wise again to many things have changed.
Stolen Valor on the other hand I go Bat S!@# crazy.

Response by CPL Todd Murray made Jul 29 at 2019 10:26 AM

2019-07-29T10:26:30-04:00

I have been out for about 8 years now. But I am a civilian contractor now and work around soldiers alot. I have corrected a few but always with tact or just in a friendly manner, they almost always say "Thanks sir" and correct themselves. Only once did I get cursed out, but a CSM in civilians behind me followed it up and locked him up.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 29 at 2019 12:23 PM

2019-07-29T12:23:43-04:00

I say something, after all they are representing our Nation and the Service. I say, you know in my day that was nor authorized, are you sure you are in regulation?