What do you think about the "Veterans of Foreign Wars" (VFW) one day changing their policies to include veterans with no foreign service?

Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 20:04:45 -0400

The VFW which is appropriately titled "Veterans of Foreign Wars" has been a topic of discussion for many of today's Veterans. Should they one day changing their Policies to include Veterans who do not have a Overseas or 'Foreign' Way on their DD214. This has been an issue or at least a question for a long time. Veterans who serve do so at the whim of a detailer who sends them where needed. Many Marines I served with Volunteered for Afghanistand and/or Iraq dozen of time to no avail. In many cases they were 'NEEDED' elsewhere due to their expertise in a 'non-combat' field or MOS. One in particual was a Black Belt Marine Corps Martial Arts Program 'MCMAP' Trainer and trained new Officers at the OCS academy where young Lieutenants went to train and learn their 'Combat' skills. He was never allowed to deploy due to his expertise and eventually got out of the service without a Foreign Deployment through no fault of his own but now he is 'Penalized' for not having a Deployment. He has been told to 'Go join the American Legion' but all of our freind groups are VFW...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2023 8:12 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 20:12:46 -0400

As a Vietnam Veteran, I signed up as a lifetime member of the VFW. I do not want the VFW to change their policy.

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Aug 2 at 2023 8:41 PM

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 20:41:54 -0400

You do not necessarily have to deploy or serve in a combat zone to become a Veteran of a foreign war. Many folks earned their GWOT service medal for supporting the war stateside without deploying.

Response by COL Randall C. made Aug 2 at 2023 10:17 PM

COL Randall C. — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 22:17:34 -0400

By "change their policies", I assume you mean "have Congress significantly alter the federal charter for the VFW spelled out in 36 USC Chapter 2301*", correct?

While I'm eligible to join the VFW six times over, I'm not a member, so really have no "dog in the fight". However, I respect the organization's purpose and do not see any value in changing them to become "another American Legion" because some that want to join are not allowed to because they lack the eligibility.

There are numerous reasons for and against any change to the charter, however most of the reasons for changing it to seems to benefit those primarily that want to join. The reasons for keeping the charter as it is heavily come down on the side of the organization.

Some of the top reasons I've heard about opening up eligibility are that it will have increased membership potential, be able to address non-combat veterans issues, expand the benefits and resources that the VFW gives to it's members, "you can help combat all veteran suicide" and other reasons of that type ("help all veterans with isolation", "help all vets with mental challenges", etc.), and "you aren't honoring all veterans for their sacrifice and service if you don't".

The main reasons I've heard against the expansion of the eligibility are almost all about the VFW maintaining it's identity, focus, tradition and conservation of certain resources. While the VFW's membership and focus on veterans with foreign service, the majority of their assistance and advocacy programs (VA claims, financial assistance, VA health care, etc.) are open to, or advocate for, all veterans - usually in partnership with other VSOs.

While I agree that all of the reasons for opening membership are true, that isn't the focus of the VFW. Does the VFW have services that can help all veterans facing challenging issues? Absolutely. Does ONLY the VFW have those services? No. In fact, they are literally one of dozens and dozens of organizations that can give assistance a plethora of veteran issues.

The VFW's mission is, "To foster camaraderie among United States veterans of overseas conflicts. To serve our veterans, the military and our communities. To advocate on behalf of all veterans." From an advocacy and assistance view, they are true to the last two parts of their mission. Expanding membership beyond what it is now is being untrue to their mission, loses focus and discards the history and traditions of the organization.
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* 36 USC Ch. 2301 - https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle2/partB/chapter2301&edition=prelim

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Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 2 at 2023 11:32 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 23:32:29 -0400

That is the reason there is the American Legion. They are for all Service members who have served, deployed or not. He will get the same services from them as with the VFW.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Aug 3 at 2023 1:16 AM

SPC James Neidig — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 01:16:40 -0400

When I Was In My Teens I Was A Member Of The Local VFW Drum And Bugle Corps As My Father Was A Korea War Veteran. I Have Been A Member Of The Legion For Over 30 Years And Never Thought About Going Back To The VFW.
I Do Have A Question About What Does The VFW Consider To Be A Foreign War ? I Was Deployed To Grenada For Urgent Fury Is That Considered To Be A Foreign War ?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2023 2:22 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 02:22:40 -0400

VFW membership requires certain/specific criteria. If your friend does not meet that criteria, then the American Legion is an option. Anyone that served can be in the Legion, but only those that met certain/specific criteria can be a member of the VFW. Should the VFW change their policy? No. They should not.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 3 at 2023 3:13 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 03:13:27 -0400

Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. I'm Probably More than a Little Biased on the Issue. Not the Best Reference. Lifetime Member of the VFW and Past Commanders Club of the Kansas VFW. When You have something that Makes You "Special" "Unique" You're Usually a Little Hesitant to Change things. If You Served during Wartime, Thank You, Much Appreciated and You Can Join the American Legion. You got a National Defense Ribbon, Outstanding! Now I've got Kuwait Liberation Medal and Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. Get Those and I'll be More than Happy to See You Join the VFW,

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Aug 3 at 2023 8:20 AM

1SG Russell S. — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 08:20:18 -0400

The American Legion is for all vets; the VFW is for those with a Campaign medal from a Foreign War, Pretty simple.
Now the real problem the Legion, VFW and DAV face in membership is that “clubs” are not really the thing for many younger vets. You see declining membership in the DAV, VFW and AL along with declining membership in Division Associations and declining attendance in most service organization meetings and reunions. I joined the VFW and in my experience it was a smokers club for Vietnam Vets and wives and really offered nothing I found interesting or appealing. I am a life member of DAV and continue to support them by sending “gifts…aka.$$” to them for the great work they do for vets…all vets.
I guess the VFW could change its name if Congress allows them to: “Veterans Who Went or Wanted to Go to War” then they could just hold joint meetings with The American Legion.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 3 at 2023 11:36 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 11:36:48 -0400

This conversation pops up and it's gets redundant after a while/ Every Veteran Nonprofit organization has eligibility requirements. DAV, Legion, Marine Corps League, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Paralyzed Veterans of America, AMVETS, Veterans of Vietnam War, Gold Star Wives, Air Force Sergeants Association and etc. They all have various eligibility requirements. Technically if the powers that be feel the need to change the charter they could certainly make the attempt to do so and make the argument to Congress. But before we do we should look at what we are changing and ask why. The VFW is there for those who meet the eligibility requirements. Those who served in harms way have a connection to each other and it is honestly an insult to try and move the bar to make somebody else happy who didn't serve in that capacity. It's not an insult to those who didn't but changing it wouldn't be fair to the others who did. I am a member of the Legion, DAV, VFW and Marine Corps League. Each org is unique and so are their eligibility. There are plenty of groups I can't join and I wouldn't ever expect them to change their standards just to make me happy.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Aug 3 at 2023 4:00 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 16:00:55 -0400

I joined the VFW in 1969 when I returned from Vietnam. At that time it was run by Veterans from the "real" war (WWII) with a few Korean War vets. At the post where I joined there were 3 Vietnam Vets. I hate to admit it, but the main reason we joined was where we lived, the bars were closed on Sundays and we wanted a place to watch a ball game and enjoy a few beers. I remained a member for a number of years until the started allowing non-members to come in and use the club. That soured me. Especially when we would hear all the excuses as to why they had not served.
I have not been back into a VFW for about 20 years now. Guess I don't really have much to add to the debate. IMO, if the club is not going to be exclusive, then why even have the club?

Response by SFC James Corona made Aug 6 at 2023 7:07 PM

SFC James Corona — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:07:49 -0400

I served during and at US Army Europe (Foreign Service) during Cold War and was rejected membership in 1998 after discharge. Couldn't understand why. They meant Foreign Combat Service and today with VFW dwindling membership now "opened" non foreign Combat service.
Wow. I'll stick to American Legion membership.

Response by MAJ Jay Callahalm made Aug 7 at 2023 1:03 PM

MAJ Jay Callahalm — Mon, 07 Aug 2023 13:03:44 -0400

Frankly, I think that it would defeat the purpose. The whole purpose of the VFW is to be an organization for those who actually served in a war zone somewhere other than in the USA or its territories. I recognize that non-combatants are eligible for membership so long as they served in the defined areas during the defined times. A good friend of mine served in Vietnam, but because he could type well, he spent his entire deployment as a clerical worker at Vung Tau! (For those not familiar with it, Vung Tau was the biggest R&R center in 'Nam - the one place where guys in Vietnam WANTED to be!) He never heard a shot fired in anger. But, he was "there." In today's military, we have hundreds of thousands who have served in various post-Vietnam combat zones - Panama, Grenada, the whole "War on Terror" with OIF and OEF as well as actions in named operations in other areas like Bosnia, Syria, Somalia, etc. The trick is making any veterans' organization attractive to the social-networked generations of veterans.

If some of them want an organization for those who, like myself, served in uniform DURING times of war, but never were deployed to war zones, as well as including those who did - - - we have the American Legion for that. They also are having recruiting issues as younger military members just have very little interest in joining such organizations. They don't need to water-down the VFWs requirements since there is already an organization for the kind of people that they're talking about allowing in.

Response by 1st Lt Mary James made Aug 7 at 2023 2:59 PM

1st Lt Mary James — Mon, 07 Aug 2023 14:59:11 -0400

Even though I was prepared, and would have gladly gone overseas, I was not sent. After my 4 year stint on Active Duty, I joined the Air Force Reserves. I was activated during Desert Storm and performed flightline and medevac duties. This included receiving wounded personnel and triaging them to military care facilities closer to their homes so they could receive the support they needed medically, and emotionally from family and friends. So even though I was activated during war time and provided essential care to our wounded military members, I can't be considered a member because I didn't "step" on foreign soil. Stateside services are an essential component of wartime readiness and war time care. So, not stepping on foreign soil disqualifies me. Oddly, a trend I keep noticing is the relaxation of certain policies when membership and financial support drops.

Response by MSgt Mason Manner made Aug 10 at 2023 11:33 PM

MSgt Mason Manner — Thu, 10 Aug 2023 23:33:17 -0400

Because of technology you can be a combatant w/o leaving the CONUS. THE REQUIREMENT FOR JOINING VFW IS A CAMPAIGN MEDAL.THE SPACE EXPEDIONARY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS. VFW IS HURTING FOR MEMBERS THAT'S WHY THEY PUSHED THROUGH THE KDSM

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Sep 8 at 2023 4:26 PM

Cpl Craig Howard — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:26:25 -0400

I am a member of the VFW, and have no issue with it as it stands. There are other Veteran Organizations out there for those who are not allowed to join the VFW. I really see no issue here.

Response by AB Bobby Crook made Sep 9 at 2023 5:36 PM

AB Bobby Crook — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 17:36:26 -0400

It’s all the name. Nuff said.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Sep 10 at 2023 10:01 AM

SGT Juan Robledo — Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:01:31 -0400

Many Veterans weren't directly there in War, many were in Units that were indirectly, but still played in a support roll, I'm not sure if this is what you consider never served on Foreign Soil

Response by SSgt Kelly D. made Sep 11 at 2023 12:17 AM

SSgt Kelly D. — Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:17:20 -0400

Instead of trying to change the VFW, him and his friends could all join the Legion and still be together.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Sep 11 at 2023 1:41 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 11 Sep 2023 13:41:06 -0400

If they do not qualify for VFW, they do not qualify.

But if they just want to "hang out" with their old service pals, last I checked (which I will admit is a LONG time ago) VFW members can invite non-members to hang out with them. Won't be able to do meetings and such, but can swap sea stories at the bar.

And even if that is no longer the case, there is nothing stopping people from hosting their own BBQ or dropping in on and old friend or even inviting the war vets to the Legion Hall - after all, VFW members are also eligible to be Legion members.

As far as the VFW dying, you have identified the symptom, but mis-diagnosed the disease. The disease is not exclusivity. It is relevance. There are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of GWOT vets who are eligible. How many have joined? I am among those who have not. And why should I? What does the VFW honestly offer me that I cannot get from going to my buddy's house (bearing in mind that my buddy is AD and the other two couple also have one AD member) for game night?

VFW has built itself a reputation of sad, bitter old men splitting their time between lamenting their lost youth and cursing the youth of today - including us young war vets from GWOT. If you want to keep the VFW alive, you need to change its reputation.

Response by LT Steven Sterry made Sep 11 at 2023 5:07 PM

LT Steven Sterry — Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:07:12 -0400

Considering the fact that we have not experienced a declared war since Vietnam, organizations like the VFW have been losing members due to attrition by death. The Vietnam Veterans of America, for example, have made the decision to close their doors forever, once the organization becomes too small to operate.

The VFW may be facing some of the same issues as the VVA. However, one also has to look at the services that these veterans' organizations provide. One of the major services is assisting veterans in filing their disability claims with the VA. And while foreign military service may be decreasing, our National Guard and military reserve activities will not. And, today, it is hard enough to get help for filing for VA disability. For that reason, alone, we should support whatever decision the VFW decides to make, and should they decide to change their membership requirements, they will still be here to help our veterans in need.

Response by A1C Jj Birchard made Sep 24 at 2023 9:47 AM

A1C Jj Birchard — Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:47:13 -0400

I fail to understand the meaning of foreign war. My dad served in the navy in WW2. He never left the States and was a member at our VFW all his life. He even kept the bar there. Was he illegible? I trained airman during the V.N. "police action" and never left our country. Can I belong? I am considered a V.N. vet by the VA. What gives?

Response by LCpl Lance Wallace made Sep 28 at 2023 11:19 AM

LCpl Lance Wallace — Thu, 28 Sep 2023 11:19:53 -0400

There are multiple Veterans Organizations that any Veteran can join. The VFW is specific for combat Veterans, but those same Veterans can also join the American Legion, American Veterans (AMVETS), Disabled American Veterans (DAV), and more, so tell "all of your friend groups" to go join those organizations also if that is the only way they can interact with this Marine.
I am not a combat Vet, but I am a Lifetime member of AMVETS and current President of my local AMVETS Riders Chapter in NC. Our Post and Chapter have combat Vets and some of them are also DAV and VFW and Legion members also. Note that the Legion also has Riders Chapters if any of you are riders. Find one and help do good things for your local Veterans that may be in need of help.

I don't know about the other organizations, but AMVETS also has Sons of AMVETS (for the husbands, sons, and grandsons of Veterans) and the Ladies Auxiliary (for the wives, daughters and granddaughters of Veterans), so you can make it a family affair.

Response by PO2 Mike Scott made Oct 5 at 2023 6:02 AM

PO2 Mike Scott — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 06:02:57 -0400

As a Legacy Life member of the VFW, I'm proud to be able to say I served in a combat role. Those that did not, those are the cards you were delt. To change the membership requirements to allow everyone in go totally against what the name stands for. After all it is the oldest veterans' organization and was founded so that war time vets had a voice. We do help ALL veterans and their families when the need arises member or not. If we (the VFW) need to change our membership rules, then let's go ahead and change the membership rules of The Order of the Purple Heart to accept ALL members with hurt feelings.

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Oct 6 at 2023 12:19 PM

PO1 William Van Syckle — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 12:19:05 -0400

Shipmates, there is No veterans organizations that are open to All service members or veterans. The VFW (life member) only take those who served in a conflict, war, with boots on the ground. AL will only take those who served during a conflict or war era. Cold War does not count. I left because of their policy of not being open to All veterans. I have brothers and sister-in-laws who served during Cold War and peace time and they cannot get into these two organization's or any other. To my knowledge, none of them has changed their policies.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Oct 7 at 2023 3:47 PM

Cpl George Matousek — Sat, 07 Oct 2023 15:47:04 -0400

That is what the American Legion is for. Semper Fi

Response by SFC Kevin Childers made Oct 8 at 2023 1:03 AM

SFC Kevin Childers — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 01:03:11 -0400

With the plethora of veteran service organizations, you can belong to more than one.
Then again with our recent experiences with deploying troops so often and so widely it's more about defining what constitutes the war part.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2023 6:19 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 06:19:04 -0400

Unfortunately membership in all organizations of this type is sagging dramatically and the influx of younger members is just not happening. In order to continue the organizational mission into the future decisions have to be made that will not sit well with current members. I don't think the leadership can be faulted for taking steps in trying to preserve the future of any organizations. Will it work? Only time will tell. When the Reserve Officers Association took in members of the Retired Enlisted Enlisted Association and merged with them it did not help at all. In fact membership numbers decreased. Tough calls! Personally I belong to the American Legion and would not qualify for membership i the VFW as it stands now. Would I join if the policy changed? Probably not. At 80+ years old I have membership in too many organizations and don't need to join any more. But then again the VFW and other such organizations are not looking for guys like me. They want and need 'young blood'!

Response by PO3 Tom Berry made Oct 8 at 2023 9:00 AM

PO3 Tom Berry — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 09:00:20 -0400

It will be 50 years next Aug 2024 when I went in and I'm so glad I never went into Combat after seeing people coming home from Vietnam being called baby killers and worse. I did six years and got out a very small time compared to my whole life. Went in at 17 young and dumb-Never even think about joining any clubs to hang out and drink and tell stories. Not my thing. Women and Men have no idea how the military was treated back in the '60s and early '70s The same people who used to spit at us are in charge now.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Oct 8 at 2023 12:34 PM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 12:34:45 -0400

Col Randall Cudworth eloquently stated all the facts related to the subject. I totally agree with everything he said and can only add some personal views!

I emphasize with service members who wanted "Foreign War" service but were not able to get the assignment. By comparison, I know guys that "wanted" the Medal of Honor but were never in a position to show their bravery... They are not eligible to join the MoH Society and I seriously doubt the rules will ever change to allow them to join.

To qualify for membership in the VFW you MUST meet the following TWO requirements:
1: Honorable Service – must have served in the Armed Forces of the United States and either received a discharge of Honorable or General (Under Honorable Conditions) or be currently serving.
2: Service in a war, campaign, or expedition on foreign soil or in hostile waters*. This can be proven by any of the following:
- An authorized campaign medal (DD214 can be used to verify)
- Receipt of Hostile Fire Pay or Imminent Danger Pay (verified by a military pay statement)
- Service in Korea for 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days.

Nobody is penalized for not having foreign war service. The lightest definition for penalize is to be put in an unfavorable position or at an unfair disadvantage. There is no unfavorable position or unfair disadvantage... They have the largest Veterans' Service Organization that will accept their membership -- The American Legion. TAL operates over 10,000 posts and, as the largest VSO, they support over 2.3 million members.

Organizations that significantly change their historical membership requirements are at risk of a reduction in members. A good example is the Boy Scouts of America. In 2019 they changed membership requirements to allow females into the organization. From 2019 to present, their membership has declined 43% . The membership requirement change is not totally responsible for the decline. However, it is a significant contributor.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Oct 8 at 2023 7:13 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:13:07 -0400

My perspective: Service organizations are losing members because of age. 600 Vietnam vets are dying daily. I see no reason to deny a service member, whether combat or noncombat, membership. We ALL worked for the good of the mission.

Response by MAJ James Oerding made Oct 8 at 2023 9:32 PM

MAJ James Oerding — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 21:32:33 -0400

IF THIS RULE IS CHANGE, THE ORGANIZATION WILL NO LONGER BE THE vfw, JUST THE W. jbOERDING

Response by PFC Lisa McDonald made Oct 8 at 2023 9:46 PM

PFC Lisa McDonald — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 21:46:16 -0400

I am in a kind of funny position. I can join the VFW as an Army of Occupation Berlin Brigade Veteran. Before the Legion opened up to all Veterans, I could join it because I served during Grenada and also Lebanon.
Go to the VA I am a peacetime Vet. If you look at that time period, a lot of in-service deaths. Just no declared war. Not serving during a declared war really limits VA benefits.

Response by SPC Pat Hacker made Oct 9 at 2023 3:02 PM

SPC Pat Hacker — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 15:02:12 -0400

The debate about the VFW's policies regarding overseas deployments on a DD214 has been ongoing, and it's a valid point of discussion. It's essential to remember that veterans serve wherever they are needed, and sometimes, their expertise in non-combat roles keeps them from having overseas deployments, which is beyond their control. Instances like the one you've mentioned, where a Marine with valuable skills was never deployed, highlight the complexity of this issue.

Ultimately, the VFW's policies may need to evolve to reflect the changing nature of military service and the contributions made by veterans who, despite not having foreign deployments, have dedicated their time and expertise to the armed forces. Inclusion and recognition should be based on a veteran's service and commitment, regardless of the specific details on their DD214. As discussions continue, it's essential to consider the unique circumstances that many veterans face during their service and how these should be acknowledged and honored within veterans' organizations like the VFW.

Response by Lt Col Steve Bonning made Oct 9 at 2023 7:27 PM

Lt Col Steve Bonning — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 19:27:16 -0400

You're kidding, right? It's called Veterans of FOREIGN WARS. As well, it's chartered by Congress for its specificity. So regardless of how you feel emotionally I doubt any name change will occur

Response by MSgt Wes Tracy made Oct 10 at 2023 9:25 PM

MSgt Wes Tracy — Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:25:31 -0400

It's a good question but a tough decision for them. Those that served in the war zones deserve to be honored and their membership in the VFW helps honor them. With the limited wars we've had though, the VFW with it's present membership rules will dwindle to where it can't survive. And let's HOPE there are no major wars that would replenish the membership. Perhaps, out of necessity, they can open the gates a little without making it an all-or-nothing decision.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2023 10:34 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:34:18 -0400

They may not have a choice. People aren't joining and to stay relevant they may need to change criteria.

Response by Sgt R Scott made Oct 11 at 2023 6:08 PM

Sgt R Scott — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 18:08:48 -0400

Simple answer, HELL NO! If the VFW changes the requirements then they have to change the name. I would call it to “Crybabies want to be included!” The problem we have today is there’s a lot of people that just can’t stand for someone to tell them anything.

Response by PO1 Doree Trent made Oct 11 at 2023 10:01 PM

PO1 Doree Trent — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 22:01:31 -0400

While I haven't really researched this thoroughly...... would one reason be that technology has changed. People are now able to participate and support the war efforts without stepping foot out of Conus.

Response by CWO4 Carter Owens made Oct 12 at 2023 9:02 AM

CWO4 Carter Owens — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 09:02:05 -0400

Because I never served Over Seas in a Combat Zone or whatever the Prerequisites are for being allowed into the VFW..... I'm ok with that. I served Thirty Years active duty "Coast Guard" and to be honest and not to piss anyone off that reads this, I'm not interested. Regardless, if exempted.

Response by SSG Joseph Haggerty made Oct 12 at 2023 1:16 PM

SSG Joseph Haggerty — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:16:36 -0400

I spent two enlistments serving my country, one as a military police mos and the second as a 11b3p, but was never able to serve in a conflict or deployment. Received my second and final discharge on the day of the Panama Invasion. Was approached by a VFW group out west and told that since my separation date was the same as the invasion, I could join the local VFW. Never felt right that I could be allowed to and chose not to join. Once moved to the south, was approached again while riding with a bunch of veterans and then told I was “Not” eligible. Bottom line, I did not deploy, so VFW group is not for me. Lots of other veterans groups that due fit my service. That’s cool and I fully understand and not loosing sleep over it. Kind of like the Girl Scout vs the Boy Scouts, you have to go with the equipment and cards you were dealt!

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Oct 12 at 2023 3:54 PM

SFC R. Lee Linebarger — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:54:32 -0400

Aounds like they will become the American Legion

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Oct 12 at 2023 3:55 PM

SFC R. Lee Linebarger — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:55:55 -0400

Sounds like they are becoming the American Legion.....

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2023 5:30 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:30:35 -0400

The VFW wouldn't be the VFW if they change policies to allow memebers to not have wartime service. But honestly the VFW is useless. They haven't adapted as a whole for newer members of oif & oef era veterans. The leadership is still of those that are only about Vietnam, Korea, & the few wartime actions before the 90s.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Oct 25 at 2023 6:54 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:54:01 -0400

If the VFW wants to continue to exist, changes have to be made to accommodate the times. VFW's are closing left and right because of policies that do not fit todays soldier.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Oct 31 at 2023 9:18 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Tue, 31 Oct 2023 21:18:59 -0400

I guess it's up to them. I did not deploy to war, but I was in Germany for the end of The Cold War for 2 1/2 years. I will always be grateful to VFW Everett, WA for helping me process my claim for disability even if I can't join.

Response by MSgt Mike Griffith made Nov 3 at 2023 6:25 PM

MSgt Mike Griffith — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 18:25:00 -0400

If you ignore the membership requirements, what is the difference between The Veterans of Foreign Wars and The American Legion?

Response by PO3 Charles Hannert made Nov 20 at 2023 4:35 PM

PO3 Charles Hannert — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 16:35:46 -0500

In my opinion as long as one served during war time such as a Vietnam Era Veteran then that should do it. Most VFW posts are losing members so why not accept war era Veterans. Or perhaps just have the American Legion for all.
From a personal point of view having done search and rescue and boarding duties in the USCG 1963-1967, many if not most of us put our lives on the line every day as mother nature was trying her best to kill us. I tried to get Vietnam duty but they wouldn't send me. The Coast Guard had 8,000 people in Vietnam.
I am a life member of AMVETS, no posts anywhere near where I now live, so I rejoined the American Legion.

Response by Sgt Kevin Stiggy made Nov 25 at 2023 2:48 PM

Sgt Kevin Stiggy — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 14:48:21 -0500

The name implies vets of foreign wars. If you didn’t serve in combat you shouldn’t be allowed to join. That’s why there is an American Legion. Go join that instead

Response by CPO Stephen Canneto made Nov 26 at 2023 6:54 PM

CPO Stephen Canneto — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 18:54:47 -0500

I retired after 20 years of service, 7 deployments and stationed 2 years overseas with one of the deployments to Bosnia. I was not welcomed at either the VFW or American Legion when I approached both. Apparently, my service was not deemed worthy of their organizations. A little bitter but channeled that energy into my family and children's schools. Their loss.

Response by MSgt George Murray made Nov 26 at 2023 7:02 PM

MSgt George Murray — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 19:02:01 -0500

I was in Panama for 18 months and 2 TDY's in Vietnam, including the Saigon Pullout in April of 75. I'm a member of the American Legion and will not be renewing my membership. Why? Because of two reasons. One is the only time I hear from them is to sell me life insurance or similar. The second reason is that I requested to be transferred to my local branch. Never heard a peep out of them. We have a local VFW but they can't even keep up with their website and other events. I'm not one to spend time in clubs so I'm not worried about either one. I do believe that the VFW needs to open up to regular veterans.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Dec 7 at 2023 12:15 PM

CWO3 Robert Fong — Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:15:01 -0500

There should be no change; this is why we have the American Legion.

Response by MSG Barbara Lawson made Dec 15 at 2023 9:18 PM

MSG Barbara Lawson — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 21:18:25 -0500

My husband served in Iraq for 9 months. He, rightfully, joined the local VFW. My Reserve unit was activated in support of Desert Storm and I did not qualify to join the VFW as an active member. It was suggested that I join the Women's Auxiliary. However, that was not an acceptable suggestion as I had my own career in the Military. It was then suggested that I join the VFW as an Associate Member. Basically, I had my own access the the VFW except I could not attend Regular Meetings nor Vote. I was able to buy drinks, participate in events, buy 50/50 and other gaming tickets. I was definitely okay with that. You should check and see if that VFW has an Associate Membership option. BTW ... me application had to be voted on and approved by, I believe, the Executive Committee. IMO the VFW is for the military personnel that actually had "boots on foreign soil" and become Regular.membership. Associate membership can be the solution for the military personnel that want to associate with the VFW but don't meet the membership requirements.

Response by SPC Michael Tierney made Dec 16 at 2023 7:28 PM

SPC Michael Tierney — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:28:20 -0500

Fraternal organizations are all struggling to attract members. I am a life member of the DAV because their service was invaluable when I was discharged and seeking VA compensation for a gun shot wound. But I have never set foot in a DAV meeting place. Nor have I gone to a VFW.
All these organizations (not just veteran oriented) need to do all they can to get people in as dues paying members. Or they will go out of business.

Response by PFC Buba Carpenter made Dec 16 at 2023 7:51 PM

PFC Buba Carpenter — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:51:43 -0500

I was instructed years ago by a National Officer of the VFW. Though I served and never deployed overseas. I should join the American Legion and because my dad was a VFW member I could join the VFW Auxiliary and by doing so I would double the lobby power of my memberships. I have done so since 1980.

Response by TSgt Chuck Mankin made Dec 17 at 2023 9:27 AM

TSgt Chuck Mankin — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:27:12 -0500

I think allowing associate membership w/out voting rights into the organization isn't a horrible idea. It would help posts maintain membership and allow better numbers when engaging the politicians in DC. They could only be Associate Members w/out some sort of congressional action to change full membership requirements. Many posts already do "social members" to get more people into their bars. It's not legal according to the National By-Laws but it's still done.

Response by 1SG Rene Davis made Dec 17 at 2023 7:26 PM

1SG Rene Davis — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:26:00 -0500

The title is self explanatory with only two words: “Foreign” and “Wars.”

Response by LTC George Monsson made Dec 17 at 2023 9:03 PM

LTC George Monsson — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 21:03:18 -0500

Historically, the VFW was organized about 1900 in Denver, CO, largely for veterans of the 1st Colorado Volunteer Infantry Regiment which served in the Philippines 1898-99. It expanded nationally before WW1 for Sapnish American War vets who had served in the Philippines, Cuba, and Puerto Rico. Only later did the VFW start to admit veterans of WW1 and expanded their membership criteria to anyone who had served overseas in any conflict.

The American Legion was organized in Paris, France in 1919 for veterans of the "Great War. Different group, different criteria for membership. As private organizations they get to set their own membership requirements except for unconstitutional ones (gender, race, creed, etc.) While similar they do have somewhat different goals.

Response by TSgt Daniel Newman made Dec 18 at 2023 10:25 AM

TSgt Daniel Newman — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 10:25:51 -0500

Not really sure what they actually do for younger veterans when they get out. I joined twice never helped or did a thing for assisting me dealing with an asshole civilian employer. They may lift the restrictions when they need better turn outs for bingo or fish boils.

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Dec 18 at 2023 2:34 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 14:34:11 -0500

First, I think a "foreign deployment" is very different from a "foreign war." That said, when I was growing up most of the adult men in my town were either WWII or Korean War vets. They all belonged to one or the other and membership was so large they did a lot of community events. The American Legion Park hosted the Little League baseball diamond and the 4th of July Festival and fireworks, for example. I noticed a big decline in membership after Vietnam and we all know why. Currently the post I belong to can't attract new members. The Desert Storm/Iraq/Afghanistan vets seldom sign up, or, if they do don't come around very often. So perhaps it is this decining membership that is the problem. If so then both organizations need to improve to become more relevant to younger vets. Changing the basic membership rules will do nothing to stem the decline.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Dec 19 at 2023 10:18 AM

PO1 Don Rowan — Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:18:36 -0500

A veteran is a veteran, period. None have a say in where they're deployed.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Dec 19 at 2023 10:19 AM

PO1 Don Rowan — Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:19:43 -0500

A veteran is a veteran and has no say in where he's deployed.

Response by MSG Kenneth Bucy made Dec 19 at 2023 5:22 PM

MSG Kenneth Bucy — Tue, 19 Dec 2023 17:22:22 -0500

No. VFW should remain what it stands for.

Response by SSG Dennis Connor made Dec 20 at 2023 9:47 AM

SSG Dennis Connor — Wed, 20 Dec 2023 09:47:54 -0500

I was an in -country Dog Handler in Viet-Nam, 69-70. I had enlisted in the Army on 3 March, 1968. I got out of the military in March of 1971. I became a Police Officer in my hometown of El Paso Texas. I was having issues with the way my country was acting toward the military. I decided to join the VFW for help. I was told that I couldn't join because I had not been in a Foreign War I had been in a Police Action. Next I went to the American Legion and was given the same treatment. There was no Vietnam Veterans Association at the time. I did work my way thru the issues by talking with other officers who had also been in Viet-Nam. Till my dying day I will have nothing to do with either the VFW or American Legion

Response by PO2 Marcus Zeroe made Dec 20 at 2023 6:44 PM

PO2 Marcus Zeroe — Wed, 20 Dec 2023 18:44:56 -0500

If they did, it would be against the provisions of their Federal Charter...So whomever has been making it a "topic of discussion" needs to be told to stand down and ease up on the cheap beer.

Response by SGT Rhonda Rawson made Dec 21 at 2023 6:35 AM

SGT Rhonda Rawson — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 06:35:17 -0500

No. The Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) should NOT change its policy because “service members who served during wartime but were not deployed to foreign ground” want to become members. As someone else stated, go join the American Legion. They need new members too! If you’re able, join Disabled American Veterans (DAV) they also need new members! There 3 organizations chartered by Congress for veterans, all mentioned above. Each organization has its own specific mission but the same camaraderie. Some veterans qualify to be members of all three; others however do not. Should the Air Force change its policy to allow All interested folks in their ranks no matter their ASVAB scores and other criteria they’ve set? No, of course not. The Air Force is different entity than the marines or army or navy. But we’re all soldiers, and upon exiting the armed forces, veterans. Leave the three original organizations as they are. Look into the history of how/why each organization was created or formed. Then you will understand WHY you are or are not eligible for one or another organization.
If anything, let’s create a fourth organization specifically for veterans (of course) that is ALL INCLUSIVE. But leave the Veterans of Foreign Wars as it is. Leave the American Leagion as it is. Leave the Disabled American Veterans as it is. All three offer camaraderie, and service or assistance to other veterans. If the individual organization allows it, attend the meetings as a guest….

Response by SGT Frank Vega made Dec 21 at 2023 11:55 AM

SGT Frank Vega — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 11:55:53 -0500

They’re many of us who deployed but weren’t included in our DD214 because they were places we weren’t supposed legally be. I deployed to Panama where we crossed into Columbia but for drug trafficking; I’m in the process of getting that changed

Response by SMSgt Craig Bondy made Dec 22 at 2023 7:05 AM

SMSgt Craig Bondy — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 07:05:12 -0500

I am not eligible to join the VFW, as I never served in an eligible location or action. Nor should I be eligible. Though I cannot join the VFW, I respect those who can and I believe that they should be a distinct and separate organization, and stay true to their charter.

Response by SPC Terry Martin made Dec 23 at 2023 3:48 AM

SPC Terry Martin — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 03:48:10 -0500

It's a Great organization and I've attended, but I wouldn't join because of what its name implies and stood for

Response by LCDR Rex Roebuck made Dec 23 at 2023 5:29 PM

LCDR Rex Roebuck — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 17:29:02 -0500

That's what the American Legion is for.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 25 at 2023 9:39 AM

1SG James Kelly — Mon, 25 Dec 2023 09:39:24 -0500

Their club, their rules.

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Dec 25 at 2023 3:01 PM

SFC R. Lee Linebarger — Mon, 25 Dec 2023 15:01:39 -0500

The VFW ought to consider merging with the Amercan Legion or AMVETS. My humble opinion.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2023 12:10 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Dec 2023 00:10:28 -0500

I don't see why they would. The organization is pretty clear on why they exist. The only reason I could see to change the policy is if we have another war fought on American soil. Then I could see dropping the foreign part, but even then it would have to be a full on war like the civil war or the war of 1812. I am a US Marine, I have never been to combat (they announced the pullout of Afghanistan when I was in boot camp) and I have no problem not being in the VFW. I am not a veteran of a foreign war. There are plenty of organizations for all veterans such as the American Legion, and there are even some like the Marine Corps Club in my area that accepts people of other branches. If you want a veteran based charity, I personally know Army soldiers that are working with Toys for Tots. With so many other organizations, I see no reason why we should change an organization for which there is a specific need.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2023 2:42 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Dec 2023 14:42:46 -0500

It is not just changing the name or policies. It is killing the VFW organization, with all its special intent, and replacing it with a new one. It is analogous to what happened to the "Boy" Scouts of America when it was no longer limited to boys. It is literally not the same organization. It is also unfortunate, because it is frequently just temporal leadership dependent, and instead of just leaving the organization as is, they follow whatever "vision" they have to be more "inclusive," or whatever is irrelevant to the original intent. Meanwhile, after the death of the original organization, other smaller organizations pop up that fulfill the original intent, as happened with the creation of smaller, local actual BOY scouting organizations.

I would probably quit the VFW if they did this just on principle, and sign up with one of any new organizations that still catered to those who served in actual war.

I have seen little to no other rationale to make such an organization-killing change than increasing numbers (selling out) and "we don't like we can't join your club" envy, not something you would really expect from hardened combat veterans.

Response by SFC Mark Wiggins made Jan 1 at 2024 11:59 AM

SFC Mark Wiggins — Mon, 01 Jan 2024 11:59:00 -0500

I've been a member of The American Legion for 30 years. Our post has about 100 members of those about 20 attend our monthly meetings. Here's the problem almost all members are Vietnam Veterans, very few Desert Storm, Iraq, Afghanistan Veterans have joined. Within 10 years there will be no one left and our post will be gone. Several posts in my state have already gone away because of lack of membership. I don't think the VFW should change the rules but I fear they are having the same problem with getting the younger Veterans to join.

Response by PO3 Eric Kerns made Jan 27 at 2024 3:55 PM

PO3 Eric Kerns — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:55:12 -0500

I think it’s a great idea to think outside the box and it would help with recruitment in these dying organizations. Not that everyone should join but those that served during a specific era of extended conflict. You could base it off eligibility of the National defense medal. That is given out during times of conflict. Also continue the campaign, expeditionary, and combat awards as well. Maybe even those that can prove hazardous duty pay as well.

Response by SFC Timothy Ross made Jan 28 at 2024 10:44 AM

SFC Timothy Ross — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 10:44:30 -0500

Then the Name Veterans of Foreign Wars would need to be retired.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 28 at 2024 7:50 PM

1SG John Millan — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 19:50:51 -0500

Bad move. It's in the title.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2024 9:21 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2024 21:21:25 -0500

I’m not a combat vet therefore not eligible. However our local VFW doesn’t seem to have much restriction on nonmembers. I’ve been invited there on ocassions and the post said it was open to the public. They often have several nights open to the public. The have different dinner specials and open the bar area to all. So, I’m not sure what purpose the local VFW even serves. I’m sure they have meetings but I never hear about what they are doing to serve veterans. Not complaining just an observation. I don’t have a problem with not being able to join. I am still a service connected disabled vet just not combat related. I joined the DAV and am satisfied with them. I say any organization can’t be a one size fits all. Just consider your options and go with what works for you.

Response by Harriet Nix made Feb 21 at 2024 11:10 PM

Harriet Nix — Wed, 21 Feb 2024 23:10:55 -0500

Any military veteran, regardless of service branch, should be offended by the notion that the VFW would even acknowledge their inclusion. If you didn't serve in foreign wars, you're not in the club. It's pretty simple.

Response by CMSgt Paul Palko made Feb 22 at 2024 7:19 AM

CMSgt Paul Palko — Thu, 22 Feb 2024 07:19:32 -0500

Given declining membership and interest, dont like it but it may be inevitable. Having said that, most posts live by their "Home Associations", aka bars...and social members, versus active - the vets, usually keep the place profitable.

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Feb 25 at 2024 8:16 AM

SPC Vonnie Jones — Sun, 25 Feb 2024 08:16:33 -0500

My thought is inclusion is fine, however everyone just can't join everything. We all raised our right hand and pledge to defend even if it meant losing our life. I think the eligibility rules should stay the same, if it doesn't then it won't be VFW.

Response by CPL Roger Dancy made Feb 25 at 2024 12:20 PM

CPL Roger Dancy — Sun, 25 Feb 2024 12:20:03 -0500

There is a reason thar it is called VFW. Those who served in foreign wars only.

Response by Sgt Charles Riley made Feb 25 at 2024 8:11 PM

Sgt Charles Riley — Sun, 25 Feb 2024 20:11:59 -0500

I happen to be a member of both the VFW and the American Legion and I always preferred the VFW because I could relate to their members. Anyone basically can be a member of the American Legion with their Sons of the American Legion units. So, basically nearly anyone can qualify to be a member. I keep up my Legion memberships on a yearly basis but became a Life Member of the VFW years ago because to me it's for veterans who have served in a war zone. I just feel more comfortable with those that have risked their lives to serve their country and survived, LOL

Response by MSgt Janice Trojan made Feb 25 at 2024 11:10 PM

MSgt Janice Trojan — Sun, 25 Feb 2024 23:10:40 -0500

Agree with SMSGT Dawson why they have an American Legion. Their are men in the VFW Auxillary, if you want it that bad. VFW is Veteran of Foreign Wars! They have a tremendous membership. I am also a Legion member but they are greedy. My island needs both posts, So we can be one. Separate but one.

Response by SPC David C. made Mar 22 at 2024 9:33 PM

SPC David C. — Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:33:32 -0400

I know it happens, but I REALLY struggle with the concept that someone was in a military combat arms MOS from 2002 to 2022 and didn't deploy. I went in the 1st time, EAS'ed after my 1st contract, and after 9/11, went back in again. Both times I deliberately selected an MOS that prioritized combat training and deployments. I wasn't disappointed. If service members choose an MOS that doesn't prioritize combat because they want a different skill set, that's fine. Good on them. They don't however, get to complain, after 20 years of continuous warfare, that they "missed out" and don't feel like part of the club. There are MOS lat moves, SOF opportunities, and getting out of one branch of the military to go into another just to name a few opportunities to have seen combat. It's a matter of priorities. Long story short, no, I don't think the rules should be changed. The standard is the standard and shouldn't be changed because someone doesn't feel included.

Response by SFC John Kraft made Mar 27 at 2024 1:03 PM

SFC John Kraft — Wed, 27 Mar 2024 13:03:04 -0400

NO.

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Apr 7 at 2024 8:37 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:37:42 -0400

That is why the VFW is failing and will eventually be dead.

Response by PO3 Rob Laity made Apr 9 at 2024 4:14 AM

PO3 Rob Laity — Tue, 09 Apr 2024 04:14:51 -0400

If one did not serve in a foreign war the VFW should NOT provide for them to be members. PERIOD! Otherwise they are all NOT "Veterans of Foreign Wars".

Response by SFC Larry Triplett made Apr 13 at 2024 4:46 PM

SFC Larry Triplett — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 16:46:37 -0400

In a way I can see letting Soldiers with no deployment join, the VFW is dieing. The old Soldiers are dieing out and the younger Soldiers don't care about joining the VFW. I did not join my home town VFW because I didn't like the way they were being conducted and the good old boy routine that was going on. But that is my opinion on the matter at hand.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2024 7:31 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 19:31:41 -0400

That policy became outdated 23 years ago, on Sept 11...when a foreign war came to US soil.

Response by SP5 Dean Moore made Apr 14 at 2024 6:20 PM

SP5 Dean Moore — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 18:20:03 -0400

They served their country regardless of their duty station. I served in Germany , I enlisted as RA unassigned. I could have gone to Nam, but they sent me to Germany. That's about all I can say without causing an argument on here.

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Apr 15 at 2024 7:02 PM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:02:36 -0400

I joined the American legion while stationed At Fort Campbell. We had no choice of being deployed or not. I could have joined the VFW as both my farther and grandfather both served overseas. Gramps in France WW1, and my farther in Korea. Both were drafted. I enlisted. To be honest I could care less as long as they serve the needs of Vets I'm for them.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Apr 21 at 2024 6:56 PM

SPC William Szkromiuk — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 18:56:12 -0400

This is getting confusing.
"Overseas or 'Foreign' Way on their DD214"
I have "overseas" duty on my DD-214. I am not eligible for the VFW. I was a bit late for combat in Germany. And I would not claim eligibility.
"Deployment" ?
When I served. 65-68. We had: Going overseas. Stateside duty. Or going to Vietnam. No deployment. Today. If I said I was deployed during my service. Some would think I served in Combat. Negative.
I had a grade school classmate that was shot and killed on the Korean DMZ. Is he eligible for the VFW.? Posthumously, of course, if there is such a thing.
And finally. With all due respect to the Major. The question is not phrased properly.
"to include veterans with no foreign service?"
Should read:
"to include veterans with no combat zone service?"

Response by PO3 Edward Riddle made Apr 21 at 2024 10:28 PM

PO3 Edward Riddle — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 22:28:29 -0400

That's the dumbest question I've heard all year. This must be from the "everybody gets a trophy" generation asking that question.