What ever happened to being a soldier or soldiering?

2015-01-04T11:39:56-05:00

It seems that now a days we are anything but a soldier. You are a "Battle," I still not sure how that is even a thing, a Warrior, or something else that is just like the Infantry.

I have heard over and over again new terms that redefine us. I can't say the same for the other branches. A good while back you were proud to be a soldier. You were proud of soldiers. Now we are all warriors. There is the Warrior ethos. We also called another "Battle."

Soldier was an all inclusive word for everyone. Soldier is defined as : a person who is in the military : a member of an army. A warrior is a person who fights in battles and is known for having courage and skill. You can see the difference. Not everyone in the Army fights in battles. It is fine. Trust me, I love me some good cooks and an awesome supply Sergeant. I even like that UAV guy that flies that fancy toy from some conex in Arizona. But a warrior fights. Why is being called a soldier not good enough?

Some of you may not realize that the term Warrior was started by the same man that gave you the black beret. We are constantly redefining ourselves. We even changed the soldiers creed. I really didn't see what was wrong with it. Or maybe I am just too old school

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-01-04T11:44:54-05:00

I don't buy into the alarmism. I think we are still a great Army, but bad press gets more attention than good news.

Does any Soldier actually refer to himself or herself as "Warrior"? I have never heard any leader refer to his or her formation as "my Warriors," except for perhaps the CSA and SMA. Even Army advertising doesn't exclude the word "Soldier."

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Jan 4 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-01-04T11:47:20-05:00

I can often be heard telling the Troops I serve with that "I may be a SPC or a 2LT. I might be a Chaplain or a Military Police Officer... All that doesn't matter... Because I will forever be a Soldier"

(Yes, that's my arm, and that ain't no temporary tattoo...)

Response by A1C Peter Anthony made Jan 4 at 2015 11:51 AM

2015-01-04T11:51:18-05:00

Nothing wrong with old school! While something's in the military need to stay current.. Some things such as terminology of troops, traditions, need to stay in the most honorable way.. 'Old school' is Right school!!!

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Jan 4 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-01-04T11:58:24-05:00

SMH is all I can say.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jan 4 at 2015 12:01 PM

2015-01-04T12:01:20-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, we are Soldiers and the expectation is that we will continue to Soldier, nothing has changed in that aspect.

I sense some frustration in your post so I'd like to share a recent event. I was recently in a Leadership Development session when a generational comparison of leaders was made between NCOs. Those NCOs that were made in the 80's, 90's, and early to mid 2000's are more like a crock pot while newer NCOs are more like a microwave. The point being made was the speed of the promotions todays Warriors (had to include "Warrior") as compared to previous expectations.

Response by SPC Daniel Bowen made Jan 4 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-01-04T12:33:09-05:00

I agree with 1LT Scott Doyle on the over use of terms. I came into the Army in 2004 before we started changing from BDUs to the infamous ACUs. Though coming in to the new creed, I was Infantry, so the way it was written fit us perfectly. Yes it's only terms, names and titles but at the same time the title "warrior" was aimed towards grunts or any combat MOS. Though we were all a part of the same Army and I am proud to have served and meet anyone who did the same regardless of MOS, I do feel that calling anyone a "warrior" (or to some level of combat arms when they never see or purposely signed up to be anything but) simply kills the purity of choosing to be the spear, the fighting force itself. It's like saying all Marines are riflemen. Sure all military personnel can be riflemen at some point. But few become grunts or see actual combat OR choose to do that job that requires higher risk.
I think the respect for the title was lost when all soldiers were then called warriors within that creed. It took away from what the war-fighter's felt that they had earned. I will only call someone a battle buddy when I know they spent their time in hell (MOS aside) and I trust they can watch my back. Titles used to be earned, but these days they get thrown around like ARCOM's. A lot of the little things that mattered in the past do not carry the same weight anymore, and that has been a part in causing the negatives shifts the military has and will see down the road.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 4 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-01-04T12:58:51-05:00

Sign of the times that shows that too many hands are involved in the remodeling of a nations military.Also the sign of a nation struggling and may soon be the sign of a nation falling. As the generations progress forward, meaning is lost to many issues at hand by people interpreting what they want into laws and other supposedly binding contracts. Greed and do gooders have too much say any more. (DISCLAIMER) This is just my opinion and does not reflect the views or opinions of other Rally point members.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Jan 4 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-01-04T13:32:06-05:00

1LT Eric Rosa I never wanted to wear that black beret because I didn't feel it was earned. It was also miserably hot at Fort Polk to swap my soft cap with visor for a hot piece of wool I didn't think belonged on my head.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-01-04T17:32:48-05:00

I think the Army makes to many changes at the cost of consistency and/or tradition. Soldier/Warrior, the black beret fiasco, the continuous dress uniform changes to name just a few examples.

Now take the Marines, who do not have an identity problem or do not feel the need to change or reinvent themselves. They take great pride in their past and tradition and are able to instill that in their recruits who actually learn about their history, learn the Marine Corps Hymn, and are a Marine for life (no such thing as a former Marine). They have had the same dress uniform for as long as I can remember and I've had four different dress uniforms just during my service.

I am proud of my service in the Army and proud of the Army. I must also give props when due, and in this case, props to the Marine Corps.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Jan 4 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-01-04T17:42:31-05:00

Look at the timing Sir. For decades the Army preached that all Soldiers are riflemen first, like the Marines. For decades the Army was funded at a level that the Infantry could complete all the tasks that would be expected of the Infantry. By 2003 we were involved in two all out wars and assorted peace keeping and observation missions that stretched the Infantry too thin. The time finally arrived when every Soldier really had to become riflemen. There are few units in the Army, regardless of component, that have not deployed somewhere in the world to conduct what would have historically been an Infantry mission. I think it was Sec Def Rumsfeld who said something like, "When a nation goes to war, it goes with the military it has today, not the would it would like to have tomorrow."

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 9:43 PM

2015-01-04T21:43:06-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, rly?
Yo, OMG. My mom wuz born b4 then! 2 many wrds, bruh. FML.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 6:56 PM

2015-01-05T18:56:18-05:00

Pull the trigger, bad guys die. Are you close enough to get shot back at while doing it? If yes, then Warrior, if not then no. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Medics don't fire weapons per say, but they risk their lives on the field of battle hauling Coalition butts out of the proverbial fire, are they Warriors, I would say yes. Does the XRay tech or Physical therapist qualify? Probably not. If you are a "Fobbit"? As in never leaving the FOB? Then prolly not a Warrior. Again, not a bad thing. It takes all sorts to keep the Army Rolling Along, but lets not kid ourselves. If the only combat you have seen is trying to get the last copy of Call of Duty at the PX, you my friends are not a Warrior. Soldier? All Day Long! I am a helicopter crew chief, I have had to pull the trigger and take a life, I am close enough to get shot at and I get that close almost daily while deployed. I do not call myself a Warrior. Once is an event, twice is a pattern, more than that is when you get into the "Warrior Zone" (and no not the Soldeir Hangout on Fort Riley).

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 7:50 PM

2015-01-05T19:50:39-05:00

I don't think you're too old school, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, for whatever that's worth. I have been using the terms soldier and soldiering all my adult life - for the past 39 1/2 years, and I guess I'll keep using it until I fade away.

"They" can't take away Soldier or soldiering. I will soldier on until the end of my days. Not "warrior on" or "battle on," but SOLDIER ON!

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Jan 6 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-01-06T12:33:54-05:00

The term Warrior has also made its way into the Air Force Airman's Creed "I am and American Airman, I am a Warrior..." While in a sense it is a broadly accurate use of the word "Warrior" (Marrian-Webster) I believe there is a difference between a Warrior and a War Fighter

Response by SPC Daniel Edwards made Jan 6 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-01-06T22:15:32-05:00

All the creeds and all the words we use on a regular basis (HOOAH, battle buddy, etc.) are just that: words. They have been used so much that their true meanings have been lost to time. I may have been in for only 6 years, but I have paid attention to how people use these words. I have always believed in living EVERY word of NCO and Soldier creeds and make them my way of life. Unfortunately, when one says it, they think it is an annoying phrase or bunch of words that are pointless. IT'S POINTLESS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE!! This military has become a fend-for-yourself military. Nobody seems to care about anything but getting paid to get drunk. They don't care about the true meanings of the words that are supposed to make up our way of life.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-06-19T18:05:34-04:00

Your description of 'soldier' is why the term 'warrior' has arisen. The idea that a supply sergeant's primary duty is NOT to kill is a relatively recent idea. It used to be that there were no cooks in armies, just soldiers who cooked because they were hungry or women and families that followed the army as it marched and cooked for them. People have this idea that you can be a soldier and not need to be ready to close with and destroy the enemy. Considering the reduction of 'lines' in combat (think UW, insurgency, etc), that is not true. People of any MOS need to be spending time mentally preparing to shoot or stab the enemy.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-06-30T20:58:27-04:00

A soldier stop being a soldier, when he became "an army of one"

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jun 30 at 2015 11:50 PM

2015-06-30T23:50:52-04:00

1LT Eric Rosa, My query is what happened to NCO Schools, (ANOC, SNOC)? Now there are "Leader" Schools. Is NCO a bad word? Is this all chargeable to the "Beret" choosing C of Staff?

Response by COL Ted Mc made Jul 1 at 2015 2:18 AM

2015-07-01T02:18:11-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member - Lieutenant; A "Warrior" is also someone who has next to no "unit discipline" and who fights for personal glory.

"Soldiers" are a team, "Warriors" are individuals.

Ten "Soldiers" can beat twenty "Warriors" 999 times out of 1,000.

Ten "Warriors" will cause 999 times more discipline problems that twenty soldiers.

Believe me, you DO NOT want to try and command a bunch of "Warriors" (and you aren't likely to be able to "command" them in any event).

Response by SSG Mark Drew made Jul 8 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-07-08T14:03:55-04:00

Soldiering was good when I was a young teenager and in better shape, but as I grew older and could care less of the Army games and just wanted to build, fix or repair things and felt less like rucking 12 miles for no apparent reason when we had a perfectly fine 2 1/2T or 5 T truck parked in the Motor Pool! Ranges are fun and enjoyed playing sports on Tuesday. SGT's Time on Thursday, we just put up a butcher board in front of the Bay where we were performing services or welding something in the welding shop. Sometimes we would go out with the Wrecker and perform some mock up recovery "For Training Purposes". To me that is Soldiering.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jul 8 at 2015 11:50 PM

2015-07-08T23:50:56-04:00

It's very simple, CPT Private RallyPoint Member. The leadership of today's Army has so thoroughly internalized the recruiting propaganda that they rewrote the Soldier's Creed from a vow into a declaration.

The old creed talks of doing all you can, of not disgracing yourself, of stopping your comrades from disgracing the uniform. The only absolute is that you are a soldier.

The new creed declares that you (and all soldiers) are disciplined and fit and ready to destroy the enemy -- never mind that a soldier might be none of those things for a variety of reasons. It also declares that you will never quit and never leave a fallen comrade behind -- but history teaches us that everybody has a point at which mental and physical fatigue force you to quit, and is also full of examples where the dead had to be left behind or the living would never have been able to fight their way out.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 9 at 2015 12:02 AM

2015-07-09T00:02:46-04:00

I think as an all volunteer force, our military needs to be both warriors and soldiers. The two are not exclusive of the other. The best warriors are also soldiers and the best soldier need to be warriors too. The Spartans were not only great soldiers or warriors, they were both.

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Dec 18 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-12-18T19:05:02-05:00

I came in in 2003, and quickly watched the Army I wanted to be a part of turn into something I wanted no part of. Once the pajama party started, I could not wait to get out, and didn't.