What ever happened to the art of mentorship?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:31:15 -0500

I was speaking to one of my young Sergeants this evening about leadership and he said to me that during this current deployment (I'm in Iraq) is when he learned how to be a leader. He has been a SGT now for about two years and he was saying that he never really understood what leadership was until our little "mentorship" session in the motorpool in Kuwait where I kind of went all Drill Sergeant on him when he came to tell me about two SPCs leaving the motorpool before the work was done instead of challenging them and putting them back to work. Now one thing he said to me that resonated with me is that prior to him pinning on those hard stripes that he was never mentored for leadership while coming up through the ranks. Now since my days as a young Private all the way until the present I have received some form of leadership mentoring and I take the time to mentor all of my Hooahs. When we promote people to the rank of SGT and even the rank of CPL we are saying that they are ready to lead troops. We promote these kids and say "go take care of Joe", but don't stop to think whether or not we've properly mentored these young Warriors to be Warrior-Leaders. Whatever happen to the days of the true NCOPD? I'm not talking about these powerpoint classes on how to fill out a leave form or anything of te sort. I mean real NCOPD where Sr NCOs take Jr NCOs for an afternoon and really show them how to lead and take care of Soldiers. I remember my predecessors taking me and showing me resources and giving me tools so I can take care of Soldiers. Sure there was the occasional class on filling out a DA 638, but now that seems to be the standard. The new Sarge doesn't know that when Joe or Jane is having a financial problem to get them to finance or take them to ACS for a budgeting class or anything of the like, and they always have to wait for the Senior to appear in order to help the Soldier. Meanwhile, Joe's problem is getting bigger. We need to bring back the art of mentorship so that our young leaders will have the same tools as us old dogs, that way they can take care of their Soldiers better and lead them right,

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 11:53 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:53:57 -0500

I agree SFC. When I transitioned to the Guard from the Marine Corps 6 minths ago, i found myself mentoring NCO's about not only leadership but regulations, mentoring, counselings, and even basic Army knowlege. It was sad but i notice these guys, no matter how many deployments they been on just dont get it. We have turds teaching future turds and it's unacceptable. We need great leaders like yourself to get rough and straighten things out. I had a new PFC who didnt even know he was suppose to have an Army Service Ribbon...how in the heck does that happen?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 9:11 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 21:11:33 -0500

Mentorship has declined. Now instead of real NCOPDs people are more worried about 500 hours of SHARP, EO, EEO and whatever else they come up with.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 12:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Dec 2014 12:51:50 -0500

So how do we get mentorship back into the groove? A few days after I got promoted I asked a SFC "how do I use my rocker?" I don't know what his response was, I don't even know I was expecting to hear, but what I did get wasn't the least bit helpful or inspiring. Some of us were fortunate enough catch the end of and come up in the "old Army" and are therefore able to recognize the difference. If I were about to become an E5 then I would obviously use my experiences interacting with my squad leader(s) however I'm not an E5. I am trying to take the 1SG's job and I only have a clue of what the regulation expects of me... what do I do?

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 18 at 2015 12:55 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 12:55:17 -0400

I agree with everything you said SFC Herring

But, the only thing I can say and it isn't totally optimistic, is that should the NCOs and Officers want to reintroduce mentorship, the current generation of leaders (that's E-5 and above) can't do it from dry powerpoint meditations. No more check the box the either when it comes to 'mentoring'. And the evaluation system needs some oversight or accountability. If you go to other threads on RP, you will find boat loads of stories of junior enlisted that have gotten canned for lucking into the wrong units with toxic leadership. These aren't isolated incidents. The previous 10 - 20 years of the Army's promotion and evaluation system allowed too many spot-light Rangers to make rank and now they use their 'leadership' to shit can up and coming soldiers that they fear will make them look bad.

The worst performers survive by lying their way into positions so that they can mark as 'poor performers' other people that otherwise would come to the realization that leadership can be better.

How exactly military goes about cleaning up house is a tricky issue. Some of the most toxic sort honestly believe they are fulfilling God's Mission by acting the way they do, and feel that their way 'toughens' up people below them to the rigors of war and deployments. Analyzing how they are coming to these decisions might be called for too. As others have pointed out, holding young soldiers to high standards is not toxic leadership, its just being hard. I also fear that NCOs who do understand being hard but fair when holding soldiers to high standards will also get shit-canned in the future's Toxic Leadership witch hunts. Finding a way to identify NCOs and Officers who do in fact just hold soldiers to high standards vs the sort of knuckle draggers that use their positions to make their junior enlisted suffer for no reason will be difficult.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 18 at 2015 1:19 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:19:24 -0500

You are absolutely right. Schools cover leadership but not the real leadership. Perhaps we should espouse how 2LTs should be raised. If the system works well NCOs in the platoon teach the 2LT on the merits of leadership. I told all my NCOs to take care of the troops, and added Senior NCOs will monitor and mentor junior NCOS. I put special emphasis on the E-5s as they were where the rubber met the road with the soldiers. Be safe an take care of the troops.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 18 at 2015 1:26 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:26:42 -0500

Dig deep and Be the N.C.O. Leadership is not a popularity contest and not something to post on social media. Just what the hell is wrong with you guys?
If soldiers act out, do not be afraid to counsel them or recommend U.C.M.J. action.

Mentorship...SMDH

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 1:37 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:37:14 -0500

SFC Herring, as a former NCO (who saw very slow promotions) and an officer that experienced RAPID promotions (which have now slowed), I think a large part of the problem is us putting people into a position, or promoting them to a rank before they are ready to do it.

I believe the good news is that promotion rates are generally slowing (hard to write that as "good news") and it will allow everyone more time to develop, and more self development. What we (all of us) MUST do is place an emphasis on REAL mentorship...filing 4856's or having a battle book is great, but its only part of the toolkit...spending time with our team to learn what each individual does well, and does poorly allows us to develop each Soldier to the maximum.

Its good to see a question like this, and the amount of responses following it...that means that WE care.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 3:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:02:54 -0500

Back in my day, NCO's knew how to mentor and motivate their soldiers. There was no talking back from subordinates, only listen and comply. I think that a large part of what has caused the decline in mentorship is that it takes real effort by tje NCO to be an effective mentor. Sadly, most of the generation that are NCO's now kinda soft, and lack the backbone we did. Remember, I said most. LOL

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 18 at 2015 3:55 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:55:37 -0500

Sorry, but i think the buck sergeant is full of shit. Just doesn't seem plausible. He never bothered to read vignettes on leadership, pickup an FM or TM? Read an autobiography on one of the many Leaders, thus trying to emulate their style of leadership. Is the whole concept lost on the kid? What about Warrior Leader's Course???

I think he is full of shit. You either have the drive to want to be a leader and seek out all the information you can or you are a turd. He sounds like a turd that skated through. How did he even pass a promotion board? Even if you studied off the Army Study Guide site- you would know the answer for questions such as a Soldier having financial trouble/what to do. It's not called mentor-ship, it's called being a leader. It's also called being proactive as a Sergeant.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 18 at 2015 5:06 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:06:15 -0500

Mentorship, hell we used to call that LEAD BY EXAMPLE