What is the best way to lead a new soldier who is uncertain if they even want to be in the army?

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:11:34 -0400

Im aware the easy option is to kick him or her to the curb but new people usually have some uncertainty.

Response by PVT Samuel Caspers made Jun 21 at 2016 4:13 PM

PVT Samuel Caspers — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:13:42 -0400

Have you interviewed said soldier? Figure why they joined and where they want to see themselves in 5 years. Then offer two plans. One, the Army route and show where he can be in 5 years. Two, civilian route and show where he can be in 5 years

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 21 at 2016 4:14 PM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:14:04 -0400

First find out why they joined. That's always the most important step in most types of mentoring situations.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Jun 21 at 2016 4:24 PM

SGT Christopher Churilla — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:24:53 -0400

First off, I always treat an "I don't know" as a "Yes". PO1 John Miller and PVT Samuel Caspers are both correct in finding out why they joined, but I would also suggest talking to your unit Retention NCO and seeing what is available to your Soldier (re-up bonus, choice of duty station, re-class, etc), then relaying that information back to your Soldier. If that doesn't work, send them directly to your Retention NCO, selling continued time in the Army is their whole job.

Response by LTC Kathleen Maddox made Jun 21 at 2016 4:34 PM

LTC Kathleen Maddox — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:34:50 -0400

I think leading by example is the best way. Give them positive acknowledgement for an assigned task well done. Not everyone will be cut out for Army life but don't give up on a Soldier too soon.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Jun 21 at 2016 4:38 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:38:27 -0400

First you need to sit down and open up communications with the Soldier to find out why he or she is second guessing his or her commitment to the Army. There could be some kind of deeper issue that could have a bigger impact on the Soldier's health and well being. "Not wanting to be in the Army" could very well be a smoke screen for something else. As an NCO, if you suspect there could be some other issue, you should immediately bring it to the chain of command for a possible command referral to the appropriate resource. Or, there could be some other kind of personal problem that might be able to be resolved with your assistance. If that is not the case, then perhaps the Soldier is need of some old fashioned mentorship on what it means to hold true to your obligations as a member of the team, and setting goals for yourself. Negativity only reinforces negativity, so be positive and offer help and encouragement, but be firm on your expectations.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 4:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:39:07 -0400

Lead by personal example. Live the Army Values. Live the creeds of then Soldier and NCO and Drill Sergeant. Take care of them and their Families. Taking care of them also means staying proficient technically and tactically but not just in your MOS but in basic Soldier Skills, this is for your benefit and theirs since you're also their teach, coach and mentor. Be a role model to them. I take the what Jesus taught his disciple and made it my principle when it comes to treating people with respect. He said: if some one slaps you in the face give him the other one". To me that means that even if your subordinates, peers and superiors disrespect you you still show them the respect they deserve and I take that along with treat others as you would like to be treated. It takes patience but in the long run it's rewarding. I just released that I recited the Creed of the NCO. Important is also the the initial counseling and follow thru, event orientated counseling and monthly counseling. Hold them accountable to the Army standards. The moment that you don't make an correction a new standard has been made. I can go on but I'm ending it with this; leaders aren't tyrannical nor dictators. They serve their subordinates, peers and superiors alike. Leaders aren't just self inspiring but can inspire others to achieve greatness. This is a task WE leaders must master.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 5:36 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:36:26 -0400

That Soldier may be uncertain for a number of reasons. One could be negativity within the unit. If so, do your best to curb that way of thinking and influence that Soldier on the way things should work. Be a coach and mentor to that young Soldier. Share your experiences with them. Even the negative ones to show that they may not be alone in how they may be feeling. Explain how you got out of your own negative thinking or uncertainty. If they still have trouble then mentor them on their possible career choices.

Response by SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM made Jun 21 at 2016 6:36 PM

SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 18:36:23 -0400

PVT Private RallyPoint Member ,
As I am sure that my response will echo many of who have already posted. However, from my perspective with regards to your circumstance as this really is a challenging, yet sensitive issue for all leaders who posses empathy and want nothing less than the best for their Soldiers/team members. Before deciding, ensure that you do a full circle perspective before placing any type of judgement. First and foremost, if your Soldier has the definitive mindset that they are ETSing with no signs of compromise or negotiation, do not scoff at the decision. I say this because I have seen it far too many times during my 17 years where both peers and leaders will scoff at a Soldier's decision for wanting to exit military service coupled with the assumption that will not amount to anything in their next chapter; as if the military is the be all, end all. However, if the Soldier is uncertain on their decision, this is the opportunity to ground them back towards memory lane to the civilian on the street that walked into the Recruiting station looking for a change. What I mean is this: When most Soldiers join their respective military branch, it normally comes with a set of desires aimed towards personal goal achievement; albeit money for college, embark on their own independent career, provide for their family, and a wide array of other decisions. This is the time to gage the posture of that Soldier and their individual goals. This normally leads to open ended, fact finding questions such as "Why did you join the Army?" The Soldier will reply because of this reason...From there you ask, "Have you accomplished those personal goals that you set forth thus far?" Over 90% of the time, the answer is no. This serves as an opportunity for you to get them refocused on why they joined, and to use the next reenlistment opportunity as a chance to achieve those goals. After that option, then they can make a solid decision on continuing to serve or walk away. At least this will give them a peace of mind towards the next decision and ultimately prepare them for both their current career and the next chapter. Sorry for being long winded but I have seen this scenario play out too many times in which I both take to heart and have kept them to not only stay on the team and continue to provide their critical contribution factor, but to keep them honest towards their personal goals.
DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL BLANKET STRATEGY, AS SOLDIERS AND RESPONSES WILL VARY!!
Hope this helps and best of luck!

Response by Amn Allen Burks made Jun 21 at 2016 6:54 PM

Amn Allen Burks — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 18:54:20 -0400

There is no room for soldiers that don't want to be there!!! Discharge, and decide whether it's a general or dishonorable!!!

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jun 21 at 2016 9:00 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 21:00:31 -0400

Lead by example is the best way PVT Private RallyPoint Member. Over the decades I served in the Army, I encountered many who were unsure f the Army was right for them from new privates to new lieutenants. I did my best to do what I was assigned to do when I was a leader or staff officer. I recommend that you let an unsure service member know they can ask questions when appropriate.
I tried to ensure I never required any of my soldiers to do something I would not do from handling explosives to maintenance to leading from the front or point.
I also recommend the soldier talk to a professional counselor such as a chaplain.
Thanks for mentioning me SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 9:04 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 21:04:04 -0400

Gentlemen, I recognize I am not an NCO, but I do have a great amount of respect for the jobs that you do, and the jobs that the NCO's with whom I was affiliated while I served did, with the junior enlisted. Y'all made many officers, including myself, shine!

Any time I reflect on the leadership skills I gained in the military the very first thing I do is pull out the Army values card I earned in basic training and read the values and the Soldier's Code and then I try to live up to it. My last commander in the Reserves told me to carry the Army values card in my pocket. The card stays fashioned within my outdated money clip with all my other cards, licenses, student action card, etc, to this day.

On a side note, I chipped the corner of the Army values card trying to break into my room one night about two years ago after locking myself out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 9:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 21:22:37 -0400

You lead by example. You support your troops and they will respect and support you. When they become the soldier you expect them to be, you're done. It's now up to them to follow your lead, and soldier. The speed of the leader is the speed of the team.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2016 2:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 02:33:45 -0400

Most young people don't know or unsure of what they want but they joined for a reason. I didn't know for sure if I would want to stay in when I joined but here I am. My son is about to leave for basic training in a few months and lord knows he is going to need some good leadership. Just please try not to fall in line with some of the NCO's out there that don't want to be bothered by someone who may have some issues to work through. All Soldiers need training and most need guidance you are their guidance, leader and what they should want to strive to be. Be there to show them the way, never give up on them and they will return the favor. Work with your Soldiers to show them what is right don't just tell them. Hopefully you have some other great leaders standing to your left and right to do the same. Good Luck!

Response by SGT David T. made Jun 22 at 2016 7:42 AM

SGT David T. — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 07:42:42 -0400

Uncertainty isn't a problem. As long as they do their job while they are there then it's ok to be uncertain. The best way to deal with it is to mentor and guide them. Even then they still may not want to stay in. That is ok, and there is nothing wrong with that. They just need to do their job while they are there. Now if they become uncooperative, you may have to resort to different measures. Everyone gets out at some point. It could be 2 years (if they still do that) or 30 years and everything in between. How you handle it, is dependent on who they are.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 22 at 2016 10:54 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:54:16 -0400

Well the first thing I would do is figure out why he enlisted in the Army. I've had plenty of Marines who don't realize they've given up most of their free will and get a little stir crazy when they don't get to do what they want when they want.

One thing you can do is remind him what his uniform stands for. Another thing you can do is remind him of how valuable his contribution is to the fight at hand. Some people are unable to see the big picture and only see their direct environment.

I'm from an MOS that pretty much everyone deems as pointless and worthless, but I'm the 1st one people come to when shit hits the fan. I've had to explain more than a few times the level of importance our MOS is because pilots trust us with their lives.

Or maybe he's disillusioned because he thought he'd be kicking down doors and fighting bad guys instead of sitting behind a desk. I've run into those too. Some people need to feel like their warriors again. Maybe some time on the range will relax him after he's popped off a few rounds. Or maybe recert on the gas chamber. We get issued a ton of gear and some guys just want to be able to use it.

Maybe he misses family or isn't making friends. I don't know if you guys have a Single Soldier Program. But we have a program where Marines can sign up to go on trips/concerts/amusement parks etc. Sometimes you just need to get your mind off of not being home.

There are plenty of things you can do. The only time I have ever thought of kicking someone to the curb is when they are deliberately getting into trouble just to get kicked out. Most times, people just need a reminder of what they're fighting for and what their contribution to the fight is.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jun 22 at 2016 10:28 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:28:20 -0400

Show Him everything about the army like you were shown and see how much he retains and his he motivated in what he does.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 9:13 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:13:03 -0400

If they are contemplating leaving the Army so soon into joining, they probably don't know what all the Army has to offer. Their are options to reclassify, there are schools to attend, there are identifiers for many jobs as well. I've seen to many loose motivation and hope and lean on the uncertainty of their former civilian life (when they return to it, they usually regret it). It takes a true leader to address their concerns and aid them in pursuing their goals (through the Army).

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2016 12:25 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:25:49 -0400

Always be there for them, make it easy for them to come to you when they need help. If they mess up, tell them what they did wrong and correct them. Make sure they understand there place and that they understand yours. And lat but not least always lead by example, show them that the army in reality isnt all that bad, its not perfect but its what you make of it.

Response by SPC John Lebiecki made Jun 24 at 2016 11:42 AM

SPC John Lebiecki — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:42:20 -0400

Be the leader-> have a counseling session (non-4856) and listen to what they have to say. Sometimes the solution is right there and that soldier just does not see it.

Thats the issue I see in the Army today. Many junior leaders put on stripes and let the power go to their heads. They think from "9-5."

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2016 12:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:06:44 -0400

Something I see too often which leads to soldiers wanting out is the army either not providing opportunities that should be available or administrative errors that derail career progression. I've seen a specialist miss the promotion list (who should have been an E5) by 2 day because S1 sat on the paperwork, bonuses that are years overdue, promised schools fall by the wayside due to lack of funding, ect. The army should be a very professional organization that provides soldiers every opportunity to achieve. If the organization is screwing with soldiers financially or in career progression, it's hard as a first line leader to change the perception that the army can't deliver (when honestly the soldier's frustration is warranted.) If the army wants to retain good soldiers and morale, they need to deliver on promises.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jun 24 at 2016 2:01 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:01:38 -0400

A very good question. You need to talk to him. Get yourself ready to have a professional and personal growth counciling. He is probably weighing his options. You need to remember that anything he decides is about himself and not necessarily a condemnation of your leadership skills. Talk to him about what he wanted to achieve through the Army. If he still decides to leave let him know that he still has a job to do until then and assist him with the transition process. I told my guys that whether or not they are still my soldier, they can always come to me with their problems. I still listen whenever my old soldiers need to talk to someone and I've been out for 3 years. Remember that your guys are like family and we don't stop caring because someone moves on.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2016 4:30 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:30:19 -0400

Even though I've been an NCO for a hot minute, I have had a very limited opportunity to mentor junior enlisted (my current unit is only 30 people, all S/NCOs and one officer), but in that time, I have had more than one person voice their displeasure at their career or their circumstances. One of them was me. Back in 2014, I f'ed up bad. I won't go into details, but I was one yes/no decision away from losing a stripe. My Commander saw fit not to take it that far, but boy did I still feel the pain. By that point, I'd lost all hope for my career; I had some hefty paperwork in my PIF, my clearance was threatened, and I'd lost a lot of respect from my peers, not to mention trust from my chain. My supervisor, a crusty E-6 who was a green-to-bluer (Army-to-Air Force) sat me down and had a long conversation with me. I told him straight-up that I was thinking of letting my current enlistment lapse instead of re-upping, and he kicked me in the balls with pure facts. He asked if I had enough savings for my family (my wife was pregnant at the time and unemployed). No. Did I have a job or potential job lined up on the outside? No. Did I have any money for education? Yes (my GI Bill, but it wasn't enough for what I wanted or needed). He asked a few more like this before I got the picture. And he told me, "I'm not telling you what to do. In fact, if you want out, get out. But between now and when your enlistment ends, start getting everything ready."
After that, I hit the books at work (earned the top performer rating not long after), earned some more college credit, took on a subordinate, attended a class, pulled myself out of debt, built up some savings, etc. All with the original intention of being all nice and shiny for when I got out. Turns out that crafty bastard mind-f'd me; doing all that reminded me why I joined in the first place and I was actually thinking less and less about getting out. Actually just extended my enlistment a few months ago through 2017.
My point being, sometimes you gotta get creative with these people. Always offer them the fork in the road; the military doesn't need people with no desire to perform well in it, but the choice will still be theirs to either recognize that they are not fit for service anymore, or to recognize they can improve and start shaping up. And no matter what they choose, as an NCO, it's your job to set them up for success no matter what the choice is.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jun 24 at 2016 8:09 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:09:58 -0400

Kicking people to the curb was not an option in the sixties. If I had booted everyone who didn't really want to be there I would have been the only person in my platoon. lol

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2016 10:21 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 22:21:39 -0400

Had a PFC. That wanted out so every payay he would go withdrawal all his pay, go to the co's office and sign it over to him. In order for him to get out. He was still in when I left that unit.

Response by CW4 Leonard White made Jun 25 at 2016 12:44 AM

CW4 Leonard White — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 00:44:20 -0400

My short response is to say, "well, I expect you to fulfill your obligation, until you can ETS. So, shut up, soldier on, and the day you leave, I'll shake your hand and say, 'thank you for your service.' That's better then the alternative."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 1:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 01:01:31 -0400

Many of us go through that FTA/I'm getting out phase when we first join. It's a different way of life, and some people aren't used to being 'bossed around'. In their minds, it feels like disrespect. "You ain't gone talk to me all kinda ways. I'm a grown ass man!!" People like this need to be made to understand that the military life is a structured process of rank, authority, expectations, and growth. No one taught me this. I had to learn this, and it probably took me my first 5-7 years in to figure this out.

Soldiers like this most likely just need a good 'sit down' and talking to. Odds are, they'll never get this talk. Instead, they'll just get dragged through the ringer and sent back home, with virtually no chance to do any better than what they doing before they joined. This has become our society's way of dealing with people, taking the easiest way out instead of long term problem solving.

Response by PO3 Jonas M. made Jun 25 at 2016 6:49 AM

PO3 Jonas M. — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 06:49:02 -0400

Talk to them.... Encourage them... Speak of the benefits and the honor of serving... Find out why they joined and if that has changed.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 7:25 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 07:25:35 -0400

I think you have to ask the Soldier why he wants to get out of the Army first. Find out his or her reasons so you can best guide them; maybe they have very valid reasons ie... family issues, personal growth etc... If the reason is based on a deployment then there is a certain approach; if it's based on the recruiter lied, there is another approach. See my point? Don't make them feel that they are making this impt decision because you telling them to; give them some guidance and suggestions and let it be known to them that this is their decision, their life and you are simply stating your opinion and giving them guidance. Initially, there is a reason they joined to begin with; start with that maybe. I do know one thing; my daughter was very adamant that there was NO WAY that she was reenlisting. I told her that that is her choice; I already knew her reasons, but I also told her that she never knows where her life will be at the time her enlistment is up and to never say Never. Well guess what? She ended up reenlisting anyway due to financial reasons basically. My point is: You never know what is going to happen and just so the Soldiers have some good guidance and not forced guidance, it is ultimately their decision and there should not be any repercussions based on what that decision ends up being :)

Response by SPC Kurt Heuer made Jun 25 at 2016 10:54 AM

SPC Kurt Heuer — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:54:57 -0400

When I was a team leader back in 05, we had a private fresh outta basic that refused to soldier up. Wouldn't clean his room (to the point it would get disgusting), wouldn't shower, wore dirty uniforms, etc. I tried everything I could think of to get him to snap to, and nothing worked. Finally, he threatened to commit suicide which put him on a 72 hour suicide watch. That'll really make everyone like you when they're giving up their free time to watch you.

I ended up just asking him what the deal was, and to really be honest with me. He said he only joined because he had a fight with his wife (who was still stateside). Well, as we all know, that's a pretty dumb reason to do anything.

So, after trying to explain all the merits of being in the service, I just couldn't bring him around. We ended up having to discharge him which, wasn't all that tough to do given his disciplinary issues at that point, but I wish we had been able to make him soldier up.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 11:07 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 11:07:41 -0400

And this is surprising how? Far too many of our young Soldiers don't understand selfless service and being part of something larger than self.

Response by SPC Otis Buchanan made Jun 25 at 2016 7:16 PM

SPC Otis Buchanan — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:16:28 -0400

I have a unique perspective on this myself as I was in the same situation myself. I was a Spec 4 an wanted out due to two things that was going on at the time. First I had a wife an we were separated an she was causing me all kinds of problems, second I had an E5 that was a former squad leader an for some reason he was going to other squad members an telling things on me that wasn't true. I wanted out cause I had worked so hard to reach E-4 in less than two years. My Captain an Top both didn't want me to get out, but in my mind the damage was already done.
So long story short wish I would have stayed in 25 years later an I still miss being in to this day. If I could go back an do it over I would stay an just dealt with all that was happening.
Wish I could take this soldiers place cause I sure would if I could.
Find out what all is going on with the soldier an see if things can be worked out an if not let him/her go.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 8:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:01:23 -0400

To me, it all depends on how long they've been in. If this is a brand new soldier, fresh from the uptempo world of basic I tell them to give it time. Chances are that they're simply disillusioned with the fact that the regular army isn't what they thought it was going to be. Then I find a high speed SPC to take them under their wing, show them how to make the best of their time.

If it's a soldier who's been in for a while, I advise them that they have a few different options. There's the fast way; piss hot, get tossed out on your ass, lose benefits. There's the lazy way; coast until ETS, get out, live in parents' basement until getting into school or finding a decent job. Then there's the smart way; strive for excellence until your last day while simultaneously making arrangements for civilian life, either finding a job or applying for college. They may even decide to reenlist to better prepare for eventually getting out. I wouldn't try to convince someone who doesn't want to be in anymore to reenlist.

Response by SPC Jason Sabatino made Jun 25 at 2016 8:12 PM

SPC Jason Sabatino — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:12:34 -0400

I was only a specialist. This kid sounds like he's full of quit. If you mentor him and show him that he only has things to gain. He may turn out to be a great soldier. Also explain that his behavior is completely unacceptable. Find a high speed chaplain assistant to motivate him. Maybe someone on his level.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 8:18 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:18:57 -0400

For me as a Platoon Leader, I would counsel them in a way to getting to know them, their goals and why they want to be in the military, encourage them to have pride for what they have done to get to this point and empower that solider to strive to rise up to the ranks.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 9:12 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:12:01 -0400

As a leader, it's your job to figure out how to motivate Joe. Yes, there are those that are there just for the college money. These are the ones that you need to take to the side and have a heart to heart conversation with. Explain that they signed a contract which stated they would perform certain things in exchange for money to go to college with. If they fail to meet those performance measures not only will they not get the college money, but their life will suck and be painful. It's their choice if they want to do it the hard way or the easy way. Ultimately, it's Joe's choice if they want to step up. The hard part is with the level of entitlement that kids feel, they have a hard time understanding that they have to work for it.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Jun 25 at 2016 10:35 PM

SFC Michael Arabian — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 22:35:24 -0400

Before I retired when a service member told me they were done, that they were getting out. I would tell it's ok the military life is not for everyone, but until that day comes do us both a favor don't do anything to get in trouble and keep your options open, you never know what might happen between now and the time you EST.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 10:43 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 22:43:22 -0400

Honest communication. Find out what is going on in their head. Show a genuine desire for the well being of that SM. This is not coddling them, it's leading by example. I never asked anyone to do anything that I would not do myself. By showing the SM that you are willing to listen and are concerned for their well being you in turn will receive that SM's respect if for nothing other than just listening to them (without judging them)

Response by SGT Derrick de Beer made Jun 26 at 2016 3:38 AM

SGT Derrick de Beer — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 03:38:59 -0400

Let him go, you can't fight a war when you have a soldier who is deciding if will obey your orders or not, Hmm let me think if I will take cover under fire or stand around and wait to be shot down, compromising himself and his brothers in arms. Also leads to a total breakdown in discipline.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 5:32 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 05:32:26 -0400

I mean this is the case for most of us lower enlisted. No room to progress we are stuck. As to why less and less go to the board or put in that extra effort I've been in 3 years now and my points dropped to 686. And the rest of the time maxed out. A lot of people will argue that's obtainable but with no college and the new promotion system. This discourages a lot of us. And that's why we don't want to do it anymore. I love what I do. But I can't stay in a profession that isn't going to be able to progress my life.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 9:45 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 09:45:56 -0400

The truth is the Army is not for everyone. After truly genuine attempts to rehabilitate him or show him the benefits of military service it is ultimately up to the soldiers to decide whether or not this environment is conducive to his personal needs and wants. Forcing a soldier to stand against his will regardless of whether or not he has signed a contract it's not a good practice. This Soldier is a toxin and he will infect your platoon with his low morale and negative attitude. This will manifest itself during deployment in ways that you cannot imagine and it's nothing but a headache and you end up spending 90% of your time taking care of 10% of your soldiers. I would like for us to be able to rehabilitate soldiers that have this negative attitude but there are times that you have to cut sling load for the good of the organization and the army. I'm not an advocate for teaching soldiers to break their contractual obligations but you have to do a cost and benefit analysis and sometimes contracts have to be renegotiated in the form of the army determining that what it stands for and what the soldier wants are in congruent and both parties need to separate.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 11:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 11:24:36 -0400

From what I've seen it isn't always an issue of being in the army that's the problem. Some started with bad leadership maybe they picked the wrong mos and feel like there's no going back. If a disciplined soldier I done and doesn't plan to stay in let them out honorably with no benefits. If they shit bag all the time kick them out with other than honorable. Regardless nobody benefits from someone that doesn't want to be there.

Response by PO2 Joseph Fast made Jun 26 at 2016 11:33 AM

PO2 Joseph Fast — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 11:33:11 -0400

Well honestly I don't know how to answer this question. I can say this though. Make sure they are still doing their job. Don't push leadership stuff on them though. Not everyone is a leader. Make them work hard until they get out. But these people DO NOT need to be instructed on how to get the best eval so they can promote. It's a waste of time. Let them work hard and do good with what they do good. If they don't want in, don't push all of these random eval points on them, they obviously don't want to do it. Let them stay low rank and help people who want to stay in to advance. You will work with them a lot better if you just stop pushing the extra things people do to make rank on them. They don't want it and will despise you for it. They will like you more and work hard for you if you show them you understand how they feel but still need them to put out work for you. Someone getting out doesn't need to have 3 extra activities after the work day is over which shows leadership that you are motivated. There are plenty of hard working people who don't need to be in charge of things. You will see a loyalty you couldn't imagine once you separate "important if staying in" and "this is bull shit busy stuff that accomplishes absolutely nothing except give you a better eval". Protect those that hate the military from the later and they will be loyal. Further, I am not talking about mandatory everyone must do this. I'm talking about those tasks that are required on evals to get good marks. Why fight with someone over something that someone who wants rank will gladly do when you can have this person work hard on the actual job? Now if what I said doesn't make sense, maybe it's a difference in ratings. Intelligence is a lot of work at the computer, the actual job. If this doesn't apply to other ratings/MOS then it's not much of an answer. If it does, listen and you can save a lot of trouble with some people.

Response by PO2 Joseph Fast made Jun 26 at 2016 11:45 AM

PO2 Joseph Fast — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 11:45:00 -0400

Second comment that I felt was necessary after reading some of the comments. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to get out as long as they do their job. I had two commands absolutely berate and attack me for not wanting to re-enlist and a third command who gave me advice and mentorship for the transition to becoming a civilian again. Which command do you think I was more loyal to and willing to give up my free time for? Yes people signed a contract, that doesn't mean they owe their life to the military or even a full 20 years. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to get out.

Response by LCDR Carl Lombardo made Jun 26 at 2016 12:19 PM

LCDR Carl Lombardo — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 12:19:23 -0400

I was in for 30 years ... I had a 100% Retention Rate. I am not certain why and frankly, I did not realize it until I was asked to fill out a questionnaire at the end of my career concerning retention. I tried to treat my Sailors with respect. I never asked them to do anything I wouldn't do or had not already done. When I was still a CPO and did retention interviews, I asked what their plans were and discussed the realism of whatever they had in mind. I got a few doozies, but no one ever got out my watch.

Response by SPC Tracey Bovee made Jun 26 at 2016 12:52 PM

SPC Tracey Bovee — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 12:52:12 -0400

Regardless of whether or not his recruiter lied to him, he signed the dotted line. If he wants that college money he needs to earn it. The oath he swore to and the contract he signed shouldn't have be taken lightly and he needs to man up. I had doubts too but I knuckled down and made the best of it. Make sure he knows that when all is said and done, it will most likely be one of his greatest decisions and it will be more than worth it.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 1:20 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 13:20:31 -0400

"I don't wanna play Army anymore" is not uncertainty. they want our, push them out. Separate them from the rest of the troops, start separation paperwork on them, give them busy work to do, extra duties, drag out the separation. Make sure they get an administrative separation on their paperwork. They want out, give it too them. But show them there are consiquences.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 1:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 13:25:44 -0400

Plenty of Soldiers have told me they were done with the Army, some of it stemmed from previous poor leadership, some felt they weren't getting any career progression and some just didn't want to put up with the long hours. Each case had a story, some I was able to change their minds and they reenlisted, others, well it was just time for them to go before they become an drain on the good order and morale of the unit. Mid-career Soldiers deserve a little more consideration and understanding why they want to leave. In each case, it was important to do some problem solving. As leaders it is important that we really know our Soldiers, dig deep into underlying causes of Soldier issues. Yes it takes time, more time than we have in most cases. But we do it. We do it because its in our creed to know our Soldiers and its our job to build effective teams, to know the strengths and weakness in the ranks. Whether you are dealing with a first-termer or a mid-career Soldier. Your leadership, guidance, mentorship and professionalism will always guide a leader to do what is best for the unit and the Army. Talent management happens at all levels of leadership.

Response by CW2 Shawn Stevenson made Jun 26 at 2016 2:04 PM

CW2 Shawn Stevenson — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 14:04:11 -0400

Most soldiers have a VERY unrealistic expectation about the civilian world. Many think they can easily transition into a job making tons of cash in the federal government with the training they have received in the military. It is hard to get the point across to them that is not how it works.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Jun 26 at 2016 2:19 PM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 14:19:49 -0400

You resell the Army to that trooper!!! Tanks best job in the world.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Jun 26 at 2016 3:04 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:04:00 -0400

No different than a solider who has expressed a desire for a lifetime career. Set clear performance standards, expect positive results. Military service is not for everyone and joining to obtain promised benefits is perfectly acceptable. Your professionalism is on display. "Kicking a solider to the curb" is evidence of a leadership failure, not a leadership style.

Response by SPC James Cook made Jun 26 at 2016 3:39 PM

SPC James Cook — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:39:12 -0400

When I was a whiny young bitch, I had a spec 4 tell me "then leave, just leave." That shut me right up. Turns out I was just wanting to complain to someone, and once he made me realize that no one wanted to listen to my bitching, I became a real soldier. I am still very grateful for that smack-down. That was nearly thirty years ago.
I can't say that the kids these days are the same as they were even a generation ago. I employ kids in the 18-25 age range. The work is not military, but it is is really hot or really cold and always dirty and strenuous and at horrible hours. A lot of them don't make it a month or even a week. This is very different from how it went when I first took this job nearly a decade ago.
I see a generation that has been allowed to give up too easily on everything, so when they encounter something that actually is difficult, they are not emotionally or mentally able to deliver and succeed.
This may be what you are up against. If so, here's how the 2016 me deals with it:
- I ask them what they think about their situation.
- I remind them that the work is hard and that the physical part is the least difficult.
- I remind them that we would not have hired them if we didn't think they could do the work.
- I ask if there is something we can do to help (re-training) because I will. I'll suffer with them -- if they will commit to trying.
Most of them have no idea what is wrong, just that their situation is wrong. They have never been taxed with having to think critically about anything before. Problems have always been taken care of for them. This is true for kids from all sorts of backgrounds, not just the well-off.
The first resort method employed on me back in 1988 is your last resort in 2016, but if you have gone through some sort of process where you:
- Figure out what is wrong
- Offer a solution that will ameliorate the problem
- Be willing to work along side to make it happen
You are at a point where you can say "look, Junior, it's decision time," and realistically expect a decision.
Hopefully, they will toughen up and at least finish their enlistment. If they are still crying, get them out as fast as you can. All that expense to train them is a sunk cost and is no reason for keeping a sub-par individual on your team.

Response by CPL Walter Drumm made Jun 26 at 2016 4:55 PM

CPL Walter Drumm — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 16:55:35 -0400

My perspective might not be the most ideal example but I believe it deserves airing.
I enlisted less than a year after I lost my father. My duty assignment after OSUT was not a pleasant experience. I had a hard time fitting in, a problem made worse by a fellow OSUT class member who ingratituded himself to the "in" crowd with relative ease, and missed no opportunity to make my life miserable. I wasn't a drinker which kept me out of the most immediate Avenue to socialize or fit in. I never once was given even the most rudimentary sense that anyone cared or that my contribution was valued in any way. Top all of that off with dealing with some other personal issues predating my time in uniform that made trusting people difficult (read as impossible!) and long story short my time on active duty was brief with at the time I was discharged no chance of ever enlisting again.
Fast forward 9 years. I now had an amazing woman in my life who encouraged and pushed me to accept God into my life, confront my demons and further my education. She gave me the courage to pursue a waiver to join the National Guard. I now had the opportunity to be the sort of senior enlisted peer and eventually leader that I wished I peyote when I was on active duty. I wasn't a wishy washy pushover, but I didn't go out of my way to treat people like shit either. I led by example as best as I could and I called out people who mistreated junior enlisted simply because they thought they could for their lack of professionalism.
Was I liked by everyone? No. Did the people who served under me and to whom I reported to know where they stood with me and that I was 100% dedicated to the people who I served with? Absolutely.

Response by PO1 Gerald Sutton made Jun 26 at 2016 5:14 PM

PO1 Gerald Sutton — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:14:11 -0400

Had one who said the same while in the shot line waiting deployment to desert storm. He quickly got over after he got it said. Turned out to be a good troop.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jun 26 at 2016 5:16 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:16:46 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner…I guess this problem is as old as the Army itself…Back 50 years ago we had about half of the Army was conscripted, so this problem was not uncommon…If you are in a combat arms platoon and are in a deployable status there is no choice get rid of the solder as quickly as you can…This really is a life or death issue…In the unit I was in if a line Platoon Leader wanted to get rid of a soldier with this problem it was best for the soldier and the Platoon to transfer the problem soldier to HQ Co. before the members of the platoon took matters in their own hands…this was the era of the infamous blanket party in the latrine…These blanket parties really did happen and soldiers really did get hurt..The SOP for the platoon was nobody knew who did it or what happened…Myself if I had an issue with somebody I took care of it myself.

Response by CPO Albert Kennison made Jun 26 at 2016 9:11 PM

CPO Albert Kennison — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:11:18 -0400

I would hold a proper investigation about his claims, and if it is unfounded, he would be discharged immediately with no benefits. There is great warriors being RIFFED out of the Army, and to have someone that could possibly endanger lives by not wanting to be in the Army, I say get rid of him or her.

Response by SSG Robert Spear made Jun 26 at 2016 10:38 PM

SSG Robert Spear — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:38:37 -0400

It's baffling to me that so many "professionals" automatically assume that this Soldier is a shit bird. You are the reason that members want to bail. They volunteer, you treat them like shit. What a bunch of jerks.

Response by SPC Aron Obrecht made Jun 27 at 2016 1:32 AM

SPC Aron Obrecht — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:32:57 -0400

Well, I'm opening myself up here to massive counter battery. Here it goes.

I was one of these soldiers. I was on my second unit, didn't appreciate an opportunity given to me (bde PSD, laugh all you want, it was an awesome opportunity for personal development.) But I wasn't in it for personal development. My first deployment had gone by as a bullet point for some higher ups. I had a fucking awesome platoon of leadership, but it mostly ended there. However, my desire was to close with and engage the enemy in close combat. Call it brainwashing, call it what you will. My mind was set on that. But back to the second unit, coming from an honorable but not really infantry infantry unit, i was hell bent on getting to the line. BDE PSD wasn't the line.

In my mind I went back and forth between "this is the army, shut up and do what you are told" and "but I was told its my job to engage the enemy." Luckly some of best buds I ever had where there, kept me sane for awhile. Made some bad calls, it became obvious I didn't want to be there, and I was kicked even farther from the line. Thats when my fucks dried up real quick. Finally after some wheel spinning, kicking/kissing enough ass at the POG job I was in, and re-enlisting, I made it to the line.

I spent 7 months on the line in Afghanistan. Fortunately in a quiet area. had I thought ahead I would have realized that I missed out on ALL the training these guys went through. Being a Senior Spc I spent some time as a teamleader, luckily the area was mostly quiet, I shudder to think what my incompetence would have cost had my abilities been tested. Some mistakes were made (no injuries) but lost the teamleader spot and became the company shitbag within about the span of 10 minutes. Hated my life until I left for my last duty station. Here is that "almost out attitude" and where I fucked myself. Its the attitude that kept me mildly sane that last 5 months of that unit.

I get to Fort Drum, 3rd BDE. 1-32. I get assigned my platoon, and my platoon sgt. First thing he does is tell me to relax, time to talk like grown men. "You have been deployed twice, and you are still a spc. Why?" I told him about how quickly my attitude turns when I perceived disloyalty from my superiors. So he says "Give me a chance. Earn your keep, and Ill earn mine." or something to that effect it was 3.5 years ago. Month later, from a different NCO Im pretty sure I was slatted to be under for my second try at TL, that attitude came in. I had broke, it was over and I was done. For my last 6 months, my chain pretty much had me do all the senior e4 bitch details, otherwise left me alone as long as I did the bare minimum. Probably smart, I wasn't listening to anybody, it would have been a waste of time: they had to train the willing souls they had.

Now, not a day goes by I regret breaking like that. I had no real excuse, there were tons of good people and leaders in that unit. I pussed out. If I had sucked it up for another 2 months, that NCO i hated left and got replaced by a good one. The PSG did too, but the replacement was good as well. I'm not forgetting the dumb army stuff that happened while I was there, or the fact that our BC was a running joke among the battalion and not in a good way. But, unlike what all those dumb ass posters and motivational sets say, life has regrets because hindsight is 20/20.

I'm not asking for sympathy, or whatever. I fucked Up. Hard. The end. Until the day they said I was basically off the books for outprocessing I should have willingly gave it 100%. I know now that if I would have done that, I would have at least signed for 2 more years, and who knows, maybe still been in. I'm a random nobody now. I have very few brothers beside me, and rightfully so. I failed most of them. Its taken me 3 years to even sort of accept that there is no going back, there is no fixing that. Regret your own damn mistakes. Let your kid who has let his spirit brake read this: don't give up. The regret of failing the brother/sister hood is a lot worse than not shitbagging out on the governments dime for a couple months.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 6:57 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 06:57:46 -0400

Speaking from experience i thought this for a long time and its usually do to bad leadership.once i got better leaders it changed my perspective but still etsing because im not for the army

Response by 1SG Robert Wempe made Jun 27 at 2016 8:01 AM

1SG Robert Wempe — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:01:56 -0400

A lot of the time that decision isn't exactly 100% made already. That is just one of the ways this generation thinks. I had quite a few soldiers like that in my career and to be honest, they wanted to train and do what they signed up for, unfortunately field time is a scarce commodity in today's army. Team leaders and squad leaders have to engage these soldiers. Hip pocket training is becoming a lost art form that needs to be resurrected. No one wants to sit in the orderly room all day and do nothing while their leadership is absent, they want and need to train. The NCO in today's army is lazy compared to 15 years ago. I never had down time as a young Soldier, I was always training on something. Think outside the box, grab a ranger handbook or an old FM and teach them something outside their MOS that they may actually confront down the road. I hope this helps.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 8:34 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:34:46 -0400

Too easy. Prepare them for whatever they feel like doing. If they are unsure, then sit down and advise them on both sides. Show them you care. Not everybody is cut out for the military and even if they are, it's their choice and shouldn't be taken as an insult to the service. To those, who take it personal and want to strip the people of their GI Bill and such -That's cool and all, to be vindictive. I'm pretty sure as long as you paid your share, which we all did, who are you to possibly end somebody's future, just because they don't want to be in the military? Have them ride out their contract and prepare them as well as you can. If the Soldier is a shit bag, then square him away. If he can't be squared away, then take the appropriate steps.

Response by SSG Kristopher Rigdon made Jun 27 at 2016 9:50 AM

SSG Kristopher Rigdon — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:50:23 -0400

Wow so many judgments from leaders here. Shitbags. Yes, will alwase have some. But most are products of leaders. If you transfere someone to a new unit where they do better.. You need to take a good look at yourself.

Response by SSG James Beneda made Jun 27 at 2016 10:59 AM

SSG James Beneda — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:59:57 -0400

Soldiers quit because their leaders fail. And because we lie to them and to ourselves about what it takes to be a good soldier.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jun 27 at 2016 11:17 AM

1SG Patrick Sims — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:17:54 -0400

As I see it he has three options. He can be a pain in the ass, where as he may draw a General discharge, and the collage money is gone. He can desert, and the collage money is gone. Or he can do his job for the remainder of his contract, and get his collage money. There are no free lunches---make up your mind.

Response by CPT Michael Moffeit made Jun 27 at 2016 11:31 AM

CPT Michael Moffeit — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:31:54 -0400

Well I see both sides. On one hand you can fall on the old mentality of 'you don't want to be here, then I don't want you here's and help this Soldier return to civilian life. On the other, you kind of owe it to your unit and this Soldier to see what's going on and do your best to correct him, especially seeing as though this particular Soldier is relatively new to the Army. I think you have to take each case individually, but in the end they signed a contract, and unless you are over strength in your unit (which if you're in the Active Army I highly doubt) then you can still use this Soldier.

Response by SPC Shane Drum made Jun 27 at 2016 11:50 AM

SPC Shane Drum — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:50:30 -0400

I did Army basic in1988 it was not as hard as Marine Core basic in the end a little suffering builds character I am glad I completed it.

Response by PO2 Nathan Hughes made Jun 27 at 2016 11:59 AM

PO2 Nathan Hughes — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:59:59 -0400

Many good answers here already so i have just one point. Sometimes a person joins the military with certain goels, but ends up in a rate that doesnt meet those goels. They are too new to the military to know what other rates might better suit them, much less how to cross rate to a better mos.
As we know, recruiters get incentives for fulfilling certain rates, so I imagine that is what causes this.

Response by GySgt James Murphy made Jun 27 at 2016 12:12 PM

GySgt James Murphy — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:12:48 -0400

Most soldiers find out the army is not what they thought it was after being in a short time. They commonly use the excuse "my recruiter lied". The fact is it's almost impossible to describe the military to a potential recruit. The truth is most young soldiers are too immature to see the BIG picture and that is 3 yrs goes by fast and the benefits far out weigh. Job trng, travel, VA benefits. Not to mention educational and the fact you served your country something you can be proud of and tell your grandkids. After all you don't want to live the rest of your life telling lies for which many do. So having said this, suck it up and deal with it, it's only 3 yrs of the rest of your life. Trust me you will be glad you did.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 12:47 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:47:30 -0400

A leader should tell the soldier you have signed a commitment to the military. You made a commitment and need to fulfill it. The best and easiest way to leave is to follow orders and complete your enlistment. Anything else you lose veterans benefits and cause personal burden upon themselves and their unit.

Response by SPC Dan McGuigan made Jun 27 at 2016 12:52 PM

SPC Dan McGuigan — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:52:40 -0400

Ok. Having spent my first two years in Baumholder Germany with a Sgt that didn't like me I felt like I wanted chartered out. I wasn't a quitter I just never felt I was needed so why stay. I succeeded by knowing I committed and no one person was able to make me a quitter. My second half of enlistment was spent at Ft Hood where value was rebuilt by positive reinforcement and rank. I felt like I was a key member of my team. When I went to ets I had a ssg treat me like crap but my immediate leader told me I would succeed and to move on cause a life as a soldier was not my calling. In business today where there is large amounts of turn over I have always succeeded in keeping employees not by promises or carrots but by instilling their individual values and helping them fertilize their own experience where they are at instead of the other side of the fence. Anytime you have an employee, in this case a soldier, you can usually find a cause and try to cure it. Must if the time an issue is not what it seems to be. I owe my success to the four years active duty Army I did. It put me in a path to a life of success as it does for many.

Response by SFC Scott Wallace made Jun 27 at 2016 12:54 PM

SFC Scott Wallace — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:54:54 -0400

Please note this is written from the perspective of "new" being brand new fresh off the bus new.

As a retired SFC with a lot of trail time, I had to deal with this question over and over again. By day two or three you get the knock on your office door. Q: "DS? can I speak with you?" A: "Where's your battle buddy?" (IET soldier runs off to get "battle buddy" and returns} Knock again Q: "DS?" A: "Yes?", "I think I made a mistake joining the Army". And now is when a Drill Sergeant earns his/her pay. No yelling or screaming but a guided counseling session to find out what is really bothering this young person. They all have reasons for joining. 9 times out 10 the session ends with the SM agreeing to give it a few more days and we never talk again. That leaves those with real problems that we (new soldier and their DS} have to solve together, you demonstrate that we are a team from day one and for many, it's something new in their lives. The idea that the Army is your family, there to help you .

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Jun 27 at 2016 1:05 PM

SFC Olivero Rodriguez — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:05:22 -0400

be sure that if he does not want to be in, he will not get the money either.

Response by PO1 Tharin Young made Jun 27 at 2016 1:10 PM

PO1 Tharin Young — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:10:11 -0400

I have seen this a few times, and most recently with a friend of my son who was expecting busers remorse.
My first reaction is always to ask why. It is very possible that there is the perception of a failure on the part of their respective branch that can be quickly and easily resolved and correct the situation.
If this is not the case, I echo what my company commander told me in boot camp. That is, if they get an entry-level separation it will affect the rest of their life. Not only will they lose any benefits they may have earned, they will not be employable by any company that deals with the government, and they will be barred from ever re entering the military. The easiest way through is to fulfill the contract.
Of course, some just want out and can't be reasoned with, and that's a shame, but you can save all of them.

Response by SCPO Derek Lindsay made Jun 27 at 2016 1:38 PM

SCPO Derek Lindsay — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:38:21 -0400

They need to be reminded that they made a binding agreement and a commitment. They are going to be held accountable for their actions or inactions. Pair them up with somebody who went through that same hesitancy and decided to stay.

Response by MSG Carlos Guerrero made Jun 27 at 2016 1:45 PM

MSG Carlos Guerrero — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:45:23 -0400

Soldiers change their minds frequently. Although they may be committed to ETSing, circumstances change and they may decide to reenlist at the last minute. As an NCO it is your responsibility to help the soldier grow. Focus on the mission and ensure they are well trained. Help prepare them for their Army career and at the same time provide the necessary skill for them to be successful when they depart the Army.
As leaders we need to know what drives our Soldiers. Find out what they have vested interests in and help them accomplish their goals. I would let the Soldier know that they will be pushed to perform at a high level. Compete in boards and competitions. You will push them to meet the requirements for promotion. You cannot treat them any differently then you would treat your high speed, committed to the Army, soldiers. If they depart they will be grateful for the leadership and mentorship you provided. In the end, they may stay due to your leadership and will appreciate you pushing them to succeed.

Response by SPC Gemy D'Adamo made Jun 27 at 2016 2:00 PM

SPC Gemy D'Adamo — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:00:58 -0400

You made a commitment quit being a fucking pussy and suck it up

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 2:06 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:06:15 -0400

There are always choices. In this instance the soldier has a choice to "army" or do extra "army" after regular duty hours. The soldier's choice. No one made the soldier enlist.

Response by SGT Michael Hatten made Jun 27 at 2016 2:08 PM

SGT Michael Hatten — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:08:29 -0400

Advising them of the reality and severity of the situation-its too late. Tighten up now, "You're not the only one who thought we would just play call of duty and paintball for training everyday, ir whatever you pictured in your seemingly endless filling of paperwork signing up for the Army." They can go to work, or suffer the repercussions of the UCMJ.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 2:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:17:33 -0400

SGT York.....if you do not like to read, watch the movie. Wow! I am just amazed this question is posted by a SPC. Judging by your question, it appears that you will be an amazing leader. You already started the right way. Okay, the question at hand. I have not read each and every post. I do apologized if I repeat what everyone else said. Did you or anyone else has asked the Soldier why he/she is acting or thinking a certain way? When I was a 1SG, we had a person transferred to my unit because their unit wanted this SGT kicked out of the Army. My CSM said, no, let's try something. Mind you, the person was transferred to an entirely different CMD for "rehabilitation" for a period of six months. The person was missing formation, showing up late, etc. CSM gave me the heads up. I spoke to the CDR and my orderly room NCOIC, we put the SGT under the SSG. I even spoke to one the PLT SGTs about the transfer. Long story short. the SSG (orderly room NCOIC), provided mentorship to the SGT. They went on ruck marches around post after duty hours and talked. The SFC (PLT SGT) found out the SGT liked to take walks on trails around the area by themselves. What was really common and obvious, the SGT was ALWAYS alone. SFC joined the SGT on walks during the weekends, and more talking. There were issues with the family back home, like any typical family. My kids will see the SGT and I always had them stopped to talk to the SGT. Without failing, SGT would light up, even gave my 9 yr old books to read. Every time they see the SGT, they stop to chat about the books.You will see the SGT at the food court with a book and ALWAYS alone. I would talk to the SGT from time to time and ask how they were doing and their family. We had no issues from the SGT. SGT never missed formation or disrespectful. SGT is extremely shy and keeps to themselves. As pointed out already. I even tried to keep the SGT passed the six months mark. I left the unit before the six months mark. A year after I left the unit, I passed by the original unit. Guess who's picture I saw on the wall as NCO of the quarter. I stopped, and commented on it to their current SFC. The SFC added, they are a SSG now. This was some one that wanted out of the Army, back to the States to their family, and was about to get kicked out of the Army. For all you know, this Soldier just needs someone to talk to. This Soldier needs a good mentor. They come in all types and rank, judging by your question. For all you know, they are depressed. Once you get to the bottom of the issue, things might get better. If all and all fails, failure to adapt. Hope this help!

Response by PFC Jeff Patterson made Jun 27 at 2016 2:27 PM

PFC Jeff Patterson — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:27:08 -0400

Everyone has uncertainty, especially an impressionable new private fresh out of ait, more than likely he was not told the truth from the beginning by his recruiter explain this is not just a job but a life choice, and make the best of your.enlistment so you don't look back in 20 years and say that you wish you would do it over

Response by PO1 Rick Alent made Jun 27 at 2016 2:34 PM

PO1 Rick Alent — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:34:43 -0400

here's my story about why I joined the military. before high school even started I had already had my mind made up that I wanted to join the Navy and be a S.E.A.L. I did all the research I could, I knew how long the trading would be and what would happen if I got severely sick or injured during BUD/s and that I needed a source rating first and to pass the PT test just to get into the program. in high school, I joined the schools NJROTC program and in my senior year I walked up to the Navy recruiter and started talking to him. a few days later I was taking my ASVAB and 2 days before Christmas I was sworn into the delayed entry program. during boot camp at NTC SD, I passed the BUD/s pt test and after boot camp I was on my way to GM "A" school at Great Lakes (you don't send a SoCal boy to a place like that in the winter). before school everyday I was doing the divefarer PT on the recruit side of Great Lakes to keep us in shape for what ever dive school we were going to, whether it was dive school, EOD, or BUD/s. due to the freezing temperatures and often at times sub zero with wind chill, I ended up suffering a major double ear infection from running in freezing rain after pool days and perforated my ear drum. that injury disqualified me from any dive program offered for as long as I remained in the Navy. As my dreams of me a S.E.A.L. disappeared I wanted nothing more then to get out of the Navy and go back to my boring, dull life until the 1st class S.E.A.L. and CPO that ran the divefarer pt pulled me aside to talk. they told me that just because I could no longer go into the program I wanted didn't mean I couldn't continue to better myself by participating in the morning pt, trying to get orders to a S.E.A.L. Team support unit or to an actual team, to an SBU, EOD, or dive unit. because of the rate I choose, I didn't have to be stuck on a ship for my whole career, whether it 4years or 20. after that talk, it helped to change my mind set and to start focusing on the positive. out of my 20yrs on active duty, 14 1/2 were spent working with EOD, SPECWAR, and Expeditionary units.

Response by SSG Michael Hale made Jun 27 at 2016 3:09 PM

SSG Michael Hale — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:09:13 -0400

Speak to them as their leader, find out what was their main reason for coming into the military. Also, find out why they are feeling the way they do. Get them some counseling. And most of all let them know that you care for them

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 3:31 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:31:18 -0400

Interesting conversation. So when I was a young jarhead, we used to say U Signed the MFing Contract (USMC). So where's the commitment from these troops to live up to the contract they signed. I guess the USMC response is too direct. I liked one of the earlier responses where the troop was given the command response of fine, we'll send you packing. Isn't the Army downsizing? Cut him loose. Save the energy for the true hard chargers .... Maybe I HAVE gotten too "old corps."

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Jun 27 at 2016 3:31 PM

SMSgt William Hassiepen — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:31:40 -0400

I would assign them to every crap job there was.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 3:33 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:33:21 -0400

Oh yeah, and with no benefits.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 3:59 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:59:06 -0400

I always tell my soldiers, do what is right for you and your family. Take some time and think about it and its consequences and make an appropriate action based off of the solution. All an NCO can do is guide their soldiers for a perminant life decision. If a soldier doesn't want to stay in they can get out. Options are there for him/her, but whatever they choose I will hold them to it. My job is to guide and lead soldiers by example. If they want out let em out.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 4:07 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:07:28 -0400

Hold them accountable. I cannot imagine how unpatriotic it is to say, "I do not want to serve anymore." It blows my mind. I started with having a Green Card, I earned my right to become a citizen of this nation, now I serve the very country that gave me opportunity. How spoiled can you be? How selfish? Be the forcing factor for these folks who think it is ok to be recognize as one of us and not perform accordingly. Ingrate... selfish...people who does not deserve the very freedom they have. The decision was clear and now they want to rescind their own request to join. I will be the forcing factor. Do not let them be satisfied with minimums. The only way out other than fulfilling your very own VOLUNTARY obligation is through chapter, crime, or valid injury.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 4:11 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:11:15 -0400

Sit down with him and find out needs and motivators and show him how he can accomplish his needs. If he does not play ball there is always jobs available at the recycling center as well as human waste disposal Haha.

Response by SPC Paul Missick made Jun 27 at 2016 4:56 PM

SPC Paul Missick — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:56:27 -0400

some of this is a result of poor leadership. I had a Team Leader who could not get more creative than to mass punish us when one guy messed up. One guy who had been really excited to join and serve, had his spirit crushed because he was getting punished when he did nothing wrong. He deeply regretted joining only because he lost morale because of Toxic leadership. He did his time and got out. He is a good man and was a good soldier, toxic leaders and degrading our military.

Response by CPO Mike Castro made Jun 27 at 2016 5:17 PM

CPO Mike Castro — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:17:56 -0400

I was a Navy Boatswain Mate for 25 years. In that time I've met one person who wanted to be a Boatswain Mate at the recruiter's office, What you do is what used to be called Leadership

Response by SSG W D Thompson made Jun 27 at 2016 5:20 PM

SSG W D Thompson — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:20:50 -0400

As a leader, you must determine whether or not if he will become a good soldier with proper training. If so, then do your job.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 5:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:30:26 -0400

Show him the value of his work, or better yet explain the benefits. Why we even asking this? Who really has this kinda trouble?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 5:40 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:40:26 -0400

The military isn't for everyone - honestly, For soldiers who aren't happy serving. My suggestion take 30 days - on a calendar, if you are happy what you are doing put a smiley face, if you are not, put a frowny face - add them up - if more happy faces stay, if more frowny faces, get out when you can. Don't ignore being unhappy. If you asked most people who continued to serve until retirement it's because they were happy serving.

Response by Zach Boiko made Jun 27 at 2016 6:59 PM

Zach Boiko — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 18:59:33 -0400

I'm no leader, I was one who didn't make the cut, but one thing I learned from my drill sgts was that giving up was not an option. They reassured me all 9 and a half weeks that they would never give up on me and it was mutual. I didn't make the cut but I didn't give up because the support I had was great.

Reassure him that he's done a great job thus far and that you would like to see him continue to do a good job I'm his next units as well.

Struggles are temporary, your brothers and sisters are forever.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Jun 27 at 2016 7:09 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:09:00 -0400

I have seen some that it is best to remove them, others just need a reason to stay. The college is an incentive, whether or not they are willing to do what is required to earn it is up to them. My thinking was I signed up, therefore I needed to honor my end of the enlistment agreement. Looking back, the recruiter did his job, yeah, he sugar coated some, but there are a lot of angles that he could talk about, but you have to go through yourself before totally understanding it

Response by SSG Roger Shattuck made Jun 27 at 2016 7:15 PM

SSG Roger Shattuck — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:15:23 -0400

At the end of the day, you signed a contract. The Army by and large holds up it's end of the bargain. It doesn't always work out like in the movies. There are times it will suck and we did pick our MOS's. I think if someone wants to "quit" they should be allowed to. Just pay back all the money they paid you. And no VA benefits.

Response by SGT James Jacobson made Jun 27 at 2016 7:39 PM

SGT James Jacobson — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:39:43 -0400

Sounds to me like there may be a leadership issue, maybe from a squad leader, section sergeant, platoon sergeant, etc…soldiers don’t quit the service after their first term of enlistment because of great leadership.
So, for me, this is a great opportunity for the leader to become a better coach. Leaders who have become effective coaches are members of a select group who can call coaching a habit. These leaders add value to their unit because they motivate soldiers and boost engagement; they leverage soldier’s strengths and close skill gaps; they enhance team performance; they improve peer collaboration and relationships. In so doing, they optimize the performance of their soldiers and the unit at large in a sustainable fashion.
Get the soldier involved by first learning and understanding the question behind the question…what are they really saying. Examples: Are they saying “I want to quit soldiering because I don’t want to play soldier anymore?” Or are they saying “I want to quit soldiering because I see favoritism, and my squad leader rides me harder than another soldier for the same mistakes?”
Look, soldiers have reasonable expectations – treat me fairly, provide me with a leader who I trust and respect, and give me an opportunity to be a significant contributor on the team. Soldiers join, and will re-up if we honor these expectations. Leaders play a significant role in inspiring and cultivating collaborative work environments that enable achievement of those expectations. They do so by:
• Prompting their ideation by asking questions
• Helping them see change as an opportunity, not a risk
• And by Recognizing their hard work and contributions
Work with soldiers on their development, but it’s more than just showing them how to do something, and expecting results. You have to have them come with an action plan on how they are going to improve, and then you as their leader can help them by working with them, removing barriers, and strengthening their weaknesses
By making them accountable, and by working in collaboration versus the alternative will produce higher reenlistments/retention and better performing soldiers.

Response by PO2 Kevin Strafalace made Jun 27 at 2016 8:01 PM

PO2 Kevin Strafalace — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:01:46 -0400

I used many different leadership techniques over the years as I learned myself. The easy solution is to threaten this soldier with an OTH discharge, losing benefits, etc to force them to work or to transfer or punish them if they don't get onboard. This was the option I took far to often as a young leader as I'm sure most other NCOs have done early on. But over the years I found that this method doesn't always have the desired effect. Sure it's good for soldiers/sailors who are late, have unsat uniforms, and other smaller things.
But this is a larger issue and you will never shape your people into productive members of your team with threats. I have found it's best to have a 1 on 1 sit down. Invite them to speak openly and honestly and actually hear what they have to say with no rush to judgement. Maybe the have legitimate reasons they feel they need out. I got divorced and became a single dad. Eventually I chose to leave to fulfill my fatherly obligations. If they have such an issue work with them to find a solution. Use the chain of command for help if need be. I found that junior people will feel better about military life just by having a COC that cares and will help them. Show them all their options and help them decide the best path. If possible I challenged them to honor their obligation and I'd do everything in my power to help along the way. But most importantly make sure you keep that promise. Show them their COC does care. Thats what a good leader should do in my opinion. And after all that if they still want to leave, them go to your COC and make it happen knowing you did everything you could.
To often often in my service I saw senior personnel who just barked orders and saw their subordinates as nothing more than worthless employees who hadn't earned their place yet. All superiors should apply the knowledge obtained in their various leadership courses and use it to help those beneath them. Its our job to mold those who will eventually replace us. And I'm glad you are reaching out for help on how to properly deal with this. At least 1 young soldier is going to be a good leader throughout his career

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 8:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:14:41 -0400

Well i guess you make him strong. Every shit detail there is and make some up. New generation. The Army is easy do what your told lead from the front or the front leaning position.

Response by SFC Bayardo Reyes made Jun 27 at 2016 8:34 PM

SFC Bayardo Reyes — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:34:30 -0400

Not bashing, just asking.
What was done during the counseling sessions? was there goals set-up and follow-up conducted? weighted options explained? career guidance? how well do you know the Soldier? Just a few basic questions that came to mind. Don't have to be written counseling's either, could of been just simple talk as to ensure Soldiers well being. We are failing as Noncommissioned officers by not knowing anything about our subordinates outside of work area. Specially with those Soldiers who are married. Only because he/she lives in housing/off post, doesn't mean you can announce a visit just to check on things (living conditions) and family well being. Conduct a 530 in the morning barracks check on a Monday morning (Barracks check, living condition check, ensures he/she is alive, ensures they make it to formation, etc). How many of the Jr NCOs can say they do those things? if you do, you have been mentored right. "I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own"
My suggestion, get to know what "the plan" is if ETSing and also provide guidance on a plan on how to make a career in the Army. The rest will just fall in. If we don't know what really is the issue, we cant fix it... So ask.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 8:43 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:43:23 -0400

Good, it makes doing cutbacks easier

Response by SPC Jeffrey Frusha made Jun 27 at 2016 10:32 PM

SPC Jeffrey Frusha — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:32:52 -0400

Find out what's really at the root of the problem. Set rank and time aside and just talk and see if the EM is salvageable. I had maybe 5 NCOs that had any sort of faith in me, as well as a few Officers. My DS, a SGT in my first line-company, that Company 1SG and the CSM at my final unit. Had PSGs that took personal issues out on me, etc. When the E-5 board punted me for a temp profile technicality, I got instant short-timers' disease. I had the papers at home and all I had to do was sign one set, and I had less than 90 days left to DEROS and ETS on terminal leave of almost 3 months. Out of spite, I still did my job as well as anyone ever had, but damned if I was going to take any flack. Went in a PFC, got screwed around and made SP4 on my own, then got the Hell out. My CSM understood all too well and nobody had a shot at my back.

Response by SPC Patrick Chandler made Jun 27 at 2016 11:56 PM

SPC Patrick Chandler — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 23:56:41 -0400

In my own personal case, I had got injured in Iraq on my first tour. The doctor assigned the battalion assumed I was lying because he couldn't find anything wrong. Meanwhile I'm requiring my (now ex) wife to help me get dressed, get up and down stairs, and require my battles to help me walk around the motor pool. All of this lead me to the conclusion that the Army didn't care. If the Army doesn't care, I don't care. I still pulled my own weight as best I could through another deployment, but when it came time to reup, I said no.

Had the Army, specifically that doctor, made an effort beyond assuming I was malingering, I would probably still be in. Leaders, don't assume soldiers who say they're injured are lying. I've since meant dozens of soldiers with the same problem. This is costing the Army experienced manpower at a time where it can ill afford to loose it. There are many reasons for not reenlisting, it's important to address all of them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 12:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:56:36 -0400

As a Drill Sergeant I deal with this all the time. Usually it's due to some sort of home issue or leadership issue. Look at what he has been doing the past few weeks. If it has been mundane tasks and crappy details then he has obviously came to the conclusion that the Army has its down side. I have had leadership that has made me want to quit. Some Soldiers are very big in family and that's an issue that usually heals with time. At the end of the day he signed a contract and is being paid. If he is being paid then he is expected to work. If he disobeys or shows patterns of misconduct then that is a different story. I wake up at 0400 every morning not wanting to play Army anymore. I scrape my ass out of bed and get to work. I love my job, but there have been days I would have quit if I could. Talk to him like a man and tell him you understand. Let him know that at the end of the day he is still employed and will be expected to pull his weight. If he wants college have him fill out the tuition assistance and drive him to the Ed center. Enroll him! Show him you care about his success. Exhaust your resources before you ucmj him.

Response by CPL Anthony Jones made Jun 28 at 2016 7:40 AM

CPL Anthony Jones — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 07:40:22 -0400

It's the leaders faults for creating an easy system... You loose interest when you stop progressing or your seniors start playing favorites... Siting at E-4 for 4 years and was never given the chance for a board even after I spent a years saying sgt I'm ready... Then slapping me with Cpl strips as a bribe and yet still no board... Yeah.... They gave my board slot to a guy who enlisted when I got pinned SPC. just like that progress stopped I said my goodbyes and now I never have to work again if I don't want to. Sweet love for post army

Response by SGT Richard Ellis made Jun 28 at 2016 8:25 AM

SGT Richard Ellis — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:25:49 -0400

Back in '91 we had a troop say the same thing, and that he'd go AWOL if we got orders to deploy. He got a DD and wound up having to pay back his college money as well as his bonus

Response by SFC Benjamin Parsons made Jun 28 at 2016 8:55 AM

SFC Benjamin Parsons — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:55:21 -0400

My initial response would be to assume he's having a rough day and tell him, "Tough tutus. Get back to work." Realizing, from two perspectives, the situation merits observation and close, but as surreptitious as possible, monitoring. In fairly short order.
Is he sincere? Risk of AWOL....or worse.... And is he poisoning other minds with his new attitude?
Either way, if his attitude doesn't adjust, and regardless of what kind of soldier he is, I have to draw him a little close for some appropriate but friendly informal counselling for a few days until I figure out 'where he is coming from' and determine whether he's worth the effort to try and save. 'Cuz this is gonna steal valuable time from me.
At some point fairly early on I have notify my boss. That could go either way. I still gotta do it.
If separation is the final answer; can he still perform while being processed?; or, does the 1SG need a clerk?; or maybe Bn needs a runner/coffee maker.
Drawing these thing out isn't good. In my day, the Army was less than expeditious about such matters.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 10:01 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:01:29 -0400

Establish a profession emotional connection. My best NCOs were the ones that were very human to me when I had my own personal issues. If a soldier feels accepted, those feelings of wanting out could disappear. You will always have your hard-core "get me out of here" types, but I guess 95% of the time, soldiers can be given a good pep talk. The thing I hate is when intimidation and threats are used. You may keep them in, but they will need go above and beyond for you.

Response by PO1 Howard Doll made Jun 28 at 2016 10:35 AM

PO1 Howard Doll — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:35:12 -0400

While I have seen this attitude many times, a good leader can be a positive influence on said service member. Help him /her along. There is the responsibility to make sure this person follows your orders/decisions, still be firm - but fair.

The military is not for everyone. With patience, guidance, and by example, the service member can finish an honest hitch. I was one of those types earlier in my career. I was the one who wrote FTN all over the walls. I had jerks for leaders, but I was blessed with many good leaders outweighing the bad ones. I continued making rank, and qualifications, and did well for the next ten plus years. A medical discharge pulled the rug out from under me. I miss being in, but moved on to another great career.

When I was in, there was 180 day probation period. If the service member could not hack it, I think it was a discharge under general conditions. Is this still in play?

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 28 at 2016 10:41 AM

SSG Brian Kresge — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:41:07 -0400

What a great discussion from a decent question.

Maybe it was just my own experience, but it seems more common to find this with the nerdy kids who enlist to defy neediness. I was bound for being a professional violinist or computer science after high school, but I so wanted to impress my high school girlfriend that I enlisted for infantry with an Airborne contract.

And I hated it at first. I hated the hazing, I hated being treated like a mental midget by mental midgets. Over two decades later I'm still in.

What I had that changed it for me was good leadership and an unwillingness to allow my regrets to turn me into a poobag. I had an experienced platoon sergeant and squad leader that treated me like an adult and showed me what I could look forward to when I changed my perspective.

And I've tried so hard to send that elevator back down. Especially in today's society, this is a profound change for kids enlisting. So long as they do their jobs while they're feeling their way through reconciling with their new life, we old heads need to be paternal. And for the ones that start approaching Berghdal levels of "life is elsewhere"itis we can help them understand that they are turning "it's not for me" into self-fulfilling prophecy.

I swear we can answer nearly every RP post with "leaders, do your jobs."

Response by SSG Shawn McInturff made Jun 28 at 2016 11:13 AM

SSG Shawn McInturff — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:13:27 -0400

1. Did he get a bonuses? If so he will have to pay it back if he doesn't finish out his time.
2. He can say good by to his college money if he is kick out.
3. Has anyone look at his contract?
4. Tell him to suck it up and soldier on.....
5. If he want's out then kick his ass out and have him bill for wasting tax payers money,

Response by PO3 Pj Clarke made Jun 28 at 2016 11:21 AM

PO3 Pj Clarke — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:21:03 -0400

If, as the individual states, he "doesn't want to play Army anymore and that all he was in for was college..." Well, his DI should tell him that you just got your wish, because I'm about to take you back to school.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 11:31 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:31:09 -0400

Along with the advice already listed, keep in mind there is an additional source you can rely on - the unit Retention NCOs and Career Counselors. Everybody seems to have the thought in their mind that they are just a number, and too few realize that reenlistment is really a privilege, not an option. Retention NCOs and Career Counselors aren't just there for Soldiers wanting to stay in - they're also there for those wishing to transfer to the Reserve Component, and also for those wishing to ETS. If your Soldier wasn't spoken to by at least one of the two within 90-180 days of arriving to your unit, then someone dropped the ball. It happens, especially in larger units, but the idea with that first meeting, regardless of whether they'll hit their retention window with that unit or not, is to ensure a solid transition to your post and double check that the Army has made good on its promises to date (bonuses, schools, etc). Notice, I say Army, not previous unit. If a Soldier says their prior unit promised them a school and that promise went unfulfilled, that is not on the Army - that's on the previous unit. Throughout the Soldier's time in your unit, there should be regular correspondence between your Soldier and the Retention team, including your Company Commander. It is primarily your job to take care of your Soldier - the Retention team is meant to be a resource and in some ways a backstop. Additionally, talk with them yourself after your Soldier does. Because they are typically mostly outside that Soldier's direct chain of command, they may feel more comfortable bringing up a grievance you may be able to fix with those NCO's.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jun 28 at 2016 11:41 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:41:05 -0400

Work from the person's strengths and do not highlight the weaknesses.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 12:50 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:50:09 -0400

Uncertainty should have ended the minute they signed the contract.

Response by 1LT Gerald O'Hare made Jun 28 at 2016 1:01 PM

1LT Gerald O'Hare — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:01:38 -0400

It doesn't matter what his motivation is at all. The only important thing is the quality of his work. He can easily be replaced and lose his scholarship. That is the way the world works. The same it true in civilian life and in college life. Shit or get off the pot.

Response by SFC He Scribbles made Jun 28 at 2016 1:57 PM

SFC He Scribbles — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:57:25 -0400

Give them purpose, direction and motivation.....too easy. Basic leadership.

Response by CW4 Kelvin Holt made Jun 28 at 2016 3:48 PM

CW4 Kelvin Holt — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:48:30 -0400

"Uncertain", well I'm sorry but it's time to put on the big underwear. Assuming the soldier is not "uncertain" to the point that they are at risk of hurting themselves, is not distraught over poor leadership, discrimination, sexual harassment or a similar issue that could be addressed by the command then treat the soldier with all the dignity, respect and solid leadership that is due an American soldier.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jun 28 at 2016 4:16 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:16:59 -0400

This is a tough question to answer in one try. There are 3 basic groups the enlisted person can fall into.
1 - A person who is brand new to the military and frustrated at trying to get on top of what they need to learn and to fit in with their comrades. This is where a pep talk comes in. Give them the light at the end of the tunnel type of talk. Don't be soft or treat them differently, just let them know that someday they will be the one giving the newbie a hard time.

2 - The person who wants out NOW and doesn't care how they do it as long as they don't end up in jail for too long. Not much you can do with this person. They are always late for muster, uniform is a mess, grooming out of regs etc etc. You talk to them, yell at them, make them scrub the COs car with a toothbrush ... nothing works. They just give you the one finger salute and continue screwing up. All you can do is give them their wish and bust them to parade rest and on out of the military. Don't make it easy on them and remind them that in the civilian world if they act this way they will be homeless because nobody will hire them for long.

3 - The squared away person who has just had enough of the bullshit. They will do their job to the best of their ability but really really have had enough and want out.

This is a no shitter. I was senior E-6 at the command and an E-5 came to me. He was an excellent sailor, worked hard and knew his job. But we had gotten a new command structure pretty much from the top down and his LPO a 7 year wonder Chief was a [fill in the derogatory name of choice]. So he wanted out RIGHT NOW. He wanted to know how he could do it. Totally off the record I told him he would have to do something and stick to it no matter what. Like pretending to be deaf.

Next thing I know he goes to the executive officer and says "I do drugs". The XO was cool and he says "go pee in a cup". Well, he didn't really do drugs so that didn't work. Next he goes to the XO and says "I'm gay" This was in the early 80s and would get you off a sub and out of the Navy REAL fast. Once again, the XO gets him. He dropped his pants and says "prove it". After he stopped gagging the poor sailor had to think up another tactic. So he says he wants to kill the engineering officer. He was off the boat for a week and came back all bummed out. "They didn't believe me".

So I told him if he is sincere he will have to actually DO something, not just say it. So he goes up to the XO again (this was over the period of a few months) and pulls out a joint and lights it. Funny thing was, he never got it near his mouth. Just held it and lit it. XO says "NOW you are out of the Navy." Busted to E-1, loss of all pay and benefits for 90 days. 90 days in the brig. Dishonorable discharge.

I got a letter from him about a year later (just as I was about to get out) and he was working in the TX oil fields and nobody cared he had been kicked out of the Navy. Not only that, after 6 months out, his discharge went to general and he would get an honorable after 2 years if he kept his nose clean. So he won out in the end.

Not saying I recommend this way, but it was interesting to see somebody put so much effort into getting out of the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 9:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:39:17 -0400

If you can't handle an issue like this, or you can only lament days gone by, I question your quality as a leader.

Response by SSgt Robert Williams made Jun 29 at 2016 12:40 AM

SSgt Robert Williams — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 00:40:47 -0400

Every person is different, and joined for different circumstances. I joined because it was in the wake of 9/11, and it was the feeling of patriotism I had at the time. When the few guys I supervised and brought up displayed "uncertainty" it was a case by case basis. I always reminded them they signed up to do great things, and the benefits of their service, and sacrifices would either urge them to stay in and continue until retirement, or to finish their contracts and proceed to whatever they had planned. Reminding them that actions like, the ones I believe we're trying to address gets them nowhere, and is harmful to the life they'll be living after their discharge. I always emphasized the more they rebel, or step out of line, the more, and more the enlistment becomes like a prison sentence. We all signed up for our own reasons, but while we're fulfilling that service, we're all hear to do a job.

Response by PFC Mark Blankenship made Jun 29 at 2016 3:30 AM

PFC Mark Blankenship — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:30:06 -0400

We all know what we are signing up for. There's not been a draft since Vietnam. I say push them just like you would push any other recruit. The military has changed a lot since I served. We have to push recruits in order to break them down and then build them back up. A person, especially someone who's seen combat knows that you can't be weak and do your job. Your responsible not only for yourself, but for your brothers and sister on that battlefield with you. It's not a game. If your weak, physically or mentally, then someone dies. If a recruit goes through boot and comes out the other end, they will never again know such pride.

Response by COL Andrew Burns made Jun 29 at 2016 7:55 AM

COL Andrew Burns — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 07:55:10 -0400

You explain to them their commitment and requirements! You work with them to teach their potential while reminding them of the consequences of their potentially negative actions!

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 9:51 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:51:01 -0400

I can't speak to the Army but it's the same issue regardless of which service. You have a member of the unit that is debating their future in the military and since people are the most valuable asset you have, you have to fix it. Use positive leadership with all members in the unit. Take the time to find out what the problem is and give it your best shot to fix it. Develop an action plan with realistic goals and get them to buy into the plan. If the member feels ownership in the plan they may begin to see that they control their destiny. They will be more likely to respond to a plan that they agreed to than one you are imposing on them without their input. The loss of motivation may be the result of failed or marginal leadership or a legitimate problem that nobody was aware of and whether you like it or not it's happening on your watch and it's worth the effort to salvage them. Remember that this is someone's child and in a perfect world we wouldn't face these challenges, but the military is far from perfect. It makes more sense to try and turn them around than kick them to the curb. Leaders often spend 90% of their time on 10% of their unit but it comes with the territory. You won't save all of them but that's reality, so once you see it's a lost cause then let the Chain of Command do their job by cutting them loose.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 10:21 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:21:18 -0400

The best way would be to educate him the more in order to make him understand even better

Response by PO3 Mack McLendon made Jun 29 at 2016 12:37 PM

PO3 Mack McLendon — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 12:37:16 -0400

Nobody nowadays is drafted -- every member of the military is there because he joined of his own free will and accord. He had ample time to consider his options before he joined. He made his choice, so he should live with it.
The only valid reason to join the military is to serve one's country. All else (schools, particular assignments, etc.) is secondary.
If someone joins the military, then whines "I don't wanna play soldier no more," explain to him that he made his bed and he can lie in it. If he still refuses to get with the program, give him undesirable duty, such as permanent latrine orderly. If he goes UA/AWOL, have him face a court martial -- reduce him to E-1, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, confinement at hard labor for (at a minimum) the duration of his enlistment, and a dishonorable discharge -- and make the news of that sentence public.

Response by PFC Timothy Rutledge made Jun 29 at 2016 3:16 PM

PFC Timothy Rutledge — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:16:37 -0400

You need to find out the source of their feelings for why they want out. Then address the issues as the soldier presents itself. I wish I had nco's that cared enough about the issues of their subordinates to get to the source of the issues at hand. It very well could of changed my attitude twards wanting to stay in. Now I'm not saying that subordinates need to be babysat. Let's face it some actually need that an you don't get paid enough for that. However having an nco actually care about his soldiers could make the difference.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jun 30 at 2016 4:51 PM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:51:46 -0400

I have told soldiers that if this is your first duty station and you are unsure if you want to stay in or not....at least reup and change duty stations or reclass. Many soldiers base their experience off of their present duty station. They have nothing else to go off of. If they are having a tough time dealing one can see how it is easy to just give up and get out at ets. We all been there... If he or she stay the course they will not regret it. I have also asked soldiers whether or not they are staying in and I get from time to time,"I don't know". And I usually respond with,"Well that is a good answer because there are so many doors to choose form with "I don't know". the sky is the limit..or at least as high as the in and out calls go....lol

Response by PO3 Mack McLendon made Jul 7 at 2016 2:59 PM

PO3 Mack McLendon — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 14:59:28 -0400

The new soldier is uncertain as to whether he, and who else, wants to be in the Army?

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Feb 15 at 2018 10:11 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 22:11:45 -0500

Tell them that they are stuck in the Army for their enlistment and they need to make the best of it. Find something they are good at and let them do it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2018 4:10 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 04:10:22 -0500

Have had this conversation with soldiers many times.
Simply lay out the facts. Hey you raised your hand. You are in. Here is the reality. You will serve as you swore with honor or will be discharged with dishonor which will have a negative effect upon your whole life. Make the best of it. Work hard for me and I will work to get you situated for your transition. What ever you do give it 100%, you never know you may like it.
Ive give a similar speech and had several soldiers decide to stay after they began to engage in Army life and enjoy it.

Response by SFC William Huse made Jan 4 at 2019 9:48 PM

SFC William Huse — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:48:46 -0500

It takes time away from good soldiers who want to be there. Been there. Kick them out and move on. It's not a discipline problem, it's a lack of responsible upbringing, and it's not worth wasting time on. You don't want to be here, simple gtf out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2019 10:36 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:36:15 -0500

I know of a certain Specialist-5 squad leader back in the day who inherited a soldier like this one. Seems the Soldier In Question (SIQ) just would not toe the line and perform. The SIQ was a big kid, college drop out, football player... He was transferred to the SPEC-5 because he had engaged in some fisticuffs south his previous chain of command.
One afternoon, the Spec-5 had had enough of the SIQ's BS and invited the SIQ to join him in the "mop well " (a semi private place outside the barracks at Fort Gordon). TheSIQ, knowing he was being invited to the traditional site for wall to wall counseling smiled at the skinny, non-imposing Spec-5 confidently and said "... sure... "
What the SIQ didn't know was that the Spec-5 had arranged for a couple of his fellow squad leaders to be waiting down in the well out of site. He also didn't know that the skinny Spec-5 had had some training in the "sweet sciences". Said Spec-5 wore the SIQ out making sure to only land punches in places that hurt (badly) and that wouldn't show. When the SIQ cried "no mas" (what he said was "... I'm sorry, stop, please stop... " the Spec-5 eased up and his associates laid hands on the SIQ. During the counseling, it came out that the SIQ stood to inherit substantial money on his 21 at birthday, 8 months away. He'd joined the Army after being kicked out of college and then out of his parents house. The Spec-5 explaimed that the SIQ could do his last eight months like a soldier or that the process would be repeated and that the associate leaders would assist if needneeded and deny that any of it ever happened. The SIQ straightened up and flew right with only the occasional reference to mops from that point forward. At the 8 month mark, the Spec-5 assisted the SIQ in obtaining a discharge under AR 635-200 Para 5-3.

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Jan 5 at 2019 1:41 AM

LCpl Jason Keiser — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 01:41:09 -0500

The best way to lead them, is to lead them as if they are currently in the army, the military life isnt for everyone, but while you are in it, you have to live it. There are no individual personal action planes for an individual. Many people say do your time, i did mine and then some, its up to the individual to make more of what the military offers, but thats kinda hard to do when your boots on the ground being shot at, blown up and of course the constant threat of the brig due to actions on the battlefield.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jan 6 at 2019 1:10 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 01:10:09 -0500

Encourage. Document. Discipline. Discharge. Not everyone who is in the service is worth your efforts. Your challenge is to weed out the non hackers who are contaminating the rest. Your troops will appreciate it and so will the taxpayers.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2019 1:33 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 01:33:36 -0500

As a senior NCO sit and talk to this soldier and listen see what their issue is and just remember some people are not meant to be in the army

Response by SPC Kyle Williams made Jan 6 at 2019 2:44 AM

SPC Kyle Williams — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 02:44:32 -0500

There should be a way out if u decide its not for you, one that doesnt damage yer reputation or ability to get another job. Shit happens and people realize after joining that its not for them. Now there should be a time limit of 1 year to opt out with a honorable. I have seen to many times soldiers who wanted out had to act a fool and risk a bad d/c to get out.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Jan 6 at 2019 12:51 PM

CPT Jeff Robinette — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:51:00 -0500

You can't go Drill Sergeant on him now. What you can do is just the simple basic Leadership 101 type thing, set the standards and lead by example. As far as some creative plan that depends on you and him.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 8:20 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 08:20:34 -0500

I had one they called the ‘NCO breaker’. He was super smart, excellant at his job and completely demotivated. He had gotten a bad shaft a couple of times decided to ets and would not do anything without specific instructions. He had worn out uniforms and hershey bar boots and did all the extra duty in the world but would not fix himself. I was a brand new buck sergeant and they said it was my first challange to fix him. (And trust me I had already fumbled a couple of times as a new E5). The kid kept saying he wouldn’t take a chapter, he would finish his tour with like a man. I asked him, that didn’t his oath so he would follow and uphold ALL the regulations not just time. This was Friday night after formation on the way to our cars. I was dreading Monday when he would show up looking like shit and we would be getting chewed on by the chain of command. He looked at me, and I continued, how is being a dirt bag being honorable, especially when you are a 1000 times better than that?

Sunday night rolled around and his girlfriend called me. She said it had been a hellish weekend of uniform purchases, new boot break in, haircut, and prep! He showed up Monday looking like the soldier of the year and acting line it as well. They sent us to NTC and he won accolades and awards. They fought to get him to re-enlist which he declined, but it taught me to listen and hear what a troop is really saying when they don’t want to be in the Army any more. I personally did not ask him to re-enlist, he had great plans for the future that I thought he needed to achieve.

Response by Cpl Charles Turnbull made Jan 7 at 2019 9:53 AM

Cpl Charles Turnbull — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 09:53:41 -0500

We only had 2 types of Soldiers in my Unit Them we were keeping in and the ones we were putting out! My platoon SGT’s let me know which one’s to keep!