What mistakes have you learned from?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:39:50 -0400

Growing as a leader, I've learned some of my most valuable lessons from making mistakes.

People are so afraid to get it wrong, they sometimes cover things up, or plan things to perfection, or worse... PRETEND to understand. What is this really teaching? I would like to hear what mistakes others have made and how they grew from it.

I remember as a private I was assigned the M249 during the field. My squad leader was right behind me as we were getting "attacked." I couldn't remember how to put the ammo in. I thought he was going to yell at me, I felt like a complete baboon, but he just waited quietly, until I figured it out on my own. I put the blanks in and returned fire. I learned so many things from that. He let me try all the wrong ways, until I got it right.

A little further in my career, we were doing convoy live fire training, and I just didn't get it. I was in a unit with bad leadership. They yelled at me and called me insulting names each time I got it wrong. So I pretended to understand and hoped no one would notice. A month later we went downrange. I still didn't understand the basic TTPs because the fear of being ridiculed was worse for me than not knowing. I could have killed people. I COULD HAVE KILLED PEOPLE. I still feel sick about this, 7 years later. I never want to be that leader I had. I never want Soldiers to be afraid to make a mistake during training. When my subordinate makes a mistake, it is a great time to explain how to do it better, and why... then the lesson will stick.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 8:03 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:03:25 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, my response comes from a slightly different angle. You know the old saying that bad news doesn't get better with time, so it's best to tell the truth, get it out there, and deal with the consequences as soon as possible.

I work in the security/counterintelligence field, and the biggest mistake I've seen others make is this: Trying to cover something up, hide it, make believe it never happened. That's very bad news when the information is (inevitably, it seems) discovered. It's always better to tell the truth from the start and to deal with the consequences ASAP.

In my personal experience, whenever I have done that - truth from the beginning - my leaders have been more understanding. As I said, I've seen people take the other route, and the consequences get worse and worse as time goes by. Plus, it makes that person look dishonest.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 22 at 2014 8:06 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:06:14 -0400

Never be afraid to ask for help. When leaders assume we have the knowledge it can be disasterous. There was a flight surgeon that died walking into a tail rotor because everyone asumed a flight officer knew everything about aviation. I was given the controls of an aircraft because the pilot didn't know I was a reclass E-5 and he always had NCO's who could at least keep the aircraft in level flight. What is worse? Not knowing and assuming, which can lead to disaster? Sound off. The life you save can be your own....or even theirs!

Response by SSG Jacob Wiley made Sep 22 at 2014 8:23 AM

SSG Jacob Wiley — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:23:05 -0400

Lesson learned as a private: Don't marry her!
Lesson learned as a specialist: Dude, you didn't learn the first time??

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 22 at 2014 1:02 PM

SGT Richard H. — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:02:37 -0400

Simple answer: All of them. (I hope)

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Sep 22 at 2014 3:25 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:25:49 -0400

I have learned more from my failures than I did from my successes. One of the most important things was that gravity is a law, not just a really good idea!
I think we should remember the basics, when we are asked a question and do not know the answer we are trained to say, “(______,I do not know the answer, but I will get the answer (______).” Then, get the answer. Not for them, but for you. The good thing is, and yes I do mean good, that you learned so much from poor leadership it makes you sick to do the same to others! How awesome a leader you growing in to?
Do not forget, sometimes are job is to kill people…hopefully not our own…but sometimes we could kill people

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 5:37 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 17:37:10 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member First of all, I think you have learned multiple lessons from the one single incident (convoy). (1) If you don't get it, ask questions until you do - even if it means you get yelled at. Lives can depend on whether you get it right or not. (2) You now have the absolute best answer why jacka$$ leadership that yells at you rather than the silent squad leader that allowed you to figure it out on your own is something YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE! (3) You need a thick skin in this business. Don't be put off by someone cursing you out, using profane or vulgar descriptive words. Use the anger you build up when someone curses you out as a motivator to do better, work harder, learn more and improve faster.

Kudos to you for recognizing your previous leaders correct approach (M-249) and wrong approach (convoy) - keep those lessons close, you will see those types again! When you see the wrong approach, use your knowlege and experience to show them the errors of their ways - you now have the rank to make that stick. If you see another like the squad leader (M-249), you now know which of these you can trust with someone that is having trouble and which you may have to put in your "trouble child" listing that requires a bit more training in how to work with people.

We all have our moments. Some take a bit longer to realize it.

I won't bore with my "lessons" - but I will tell you that leadership sometimes has it's price. Onboard ship I had a promise I made to my sailors - if you break something, tell me, don't hide it. If you hide it, and I discover you did it - I'll do everything I can to boot your sorry ass out of the Navy. If you break it and tell me and it's an honest mistake - there will be NO punishment. If you break it and tell me and you were being stupid (assuming proper training) - you'll pay a price, but not anything drastic or career ending.

One very early morning I was awakened by the duty watch - one of my smallboats was inoperative due to a fuel pump issue. I got up, stole a new pump from supply (I can admit that now) and grabbed the sailor responsible for that boat. I instructed him on the who, what, when, how and why - provided all the tools he needed and let him start the job while I went below to smooth things out with the supply pukes and the Cheng. Ten hours later I'm called up to the Captain's atsea cabin. It seems that the repairs had not gone so well, the new pump had exploded internally due to a single piece that was to have been removed prior to installation - a mistake I myself had made on other occasions. The CO wanted someones head on a platter and wanted a name. I refused to name the sailor, explaining why. The CO refused to accept my response and pressed hard - to the point of writing me up for dereliciton of duty. Now my career is on the line. What do you do? As the charge sequence continues up the COC, everyone in the chain, including the CMC is urging me to give up the name. I had some choice words for the CMC - leaving no doubt in his mind what I thought of him, his family heritage and his sense of honor. I probably would not be able to say the CMC was in my corner at that point. However, the Cheng, saw through what was going on and backed me. The XO was not happy but forwarded the charges. At CO's mast (article 15 for you non-Navy types) the Cheng instructed me to let him do the talking. End result; charges dropped but I could expect no medals and awards for the deployment. I changed into my coveralls, went down to the supply shack and got another fuel pump and handed it to the sailor - who apparently thought I'd dropped him under the bus. I told the sailor to install the pump, gently reminding him to remove the proper piece and call me when he was ready to do the optest. Two hours later at 2200, 20 hours after my day started with a shake on the shoulder by the watchstander, the boat was satisfactorily optested. I gave the sailor a thumbs up, went below to start paperwork for the next days work schedule.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 22 at 2014 6:24 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:24:17 -0400

Never allude to PO1 Private RallyPoint Member, officers and crayons in the same post, unless you want some really great E vs. O comebacks. Just did it again didn't I :-0

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 22 at 2014 6:41 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:41:49 -0400

If the posted question follows this pattern, "Should a (lower rank)_(action verb clause)_(higher rank)..." RUN!!!!!

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Sep 22 at 2014 7:07 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:07:31 -0400

Never, never, never, let an idiot clean the batteries below the turret deck of a M48 tank.
I had a gomer Pvt. loader in RVN that managed a short with an adjustable wrench that burned through the sides of three 90mm canister rounds causing a very brief turret fire and quite a mess. He was only allowed to run for cokes from that day on.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Sep 22 at 2014 7:16 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:16:22 -0400

With my private carbine training, I push my guys to 'shoot to failure'. Not shoot to fail, but until something, weapon, gear, or them does not work...and they need to understand how to overcome that failure, because something will ALWAYS fail. If you are having a good day of shooting, you are not learning anything!

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Sep 22 at 2014 8:00 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:00:39 -0400

"If you can't be smart or at least funny, quote someone who is..."

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
- Mark Twain

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 23 at 2014 2:48 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:48:45 -0400

The list is long and distinguished (and all actual blunders performed by yours truly) but the key is I learned:

The star on the red plate for a general's vehicle points upwards. And 100 pushups later...

When the horn goes off at 0300, do not ask, "is this an alert" over an unencrypted network while on the Korean DMZ - and I'm a Signal Officer.

When your CO throws a smoke grenade into the Bde CDR's tent at annual training, run! - that is not the time to stand there and be honest while the boss is steaming.

Be sure the driver knows you are adjusting the antenna on the hmmwv before you do it and he decides to make a call. OUCH!!!

Get your promotion and advancement required schools done as early as possible so you don't have to attend one the week prior to deployment.

Do not let your non military spouse keep driving on and off post because they think its cool that the gate guards salute them. Getting a "don't let it happen again" speech from the Provost Marshal at any post is NOT a good experience.

ALWAYS, always, always do a 360 degree perimeter sweep prior to saying anything remotely derogatory about someone, but especially one senior in rank by at least 2 pay grades. I still have the ass scars from that little ditty.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 5:12 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:12:45 -0400

I have a great lesson learned not from failure but from success. As a Cpl. COG on duty during a weekend shift, one of my duties was to inspect off site secure warehouses containing mission gear. Because of the nature of the mission, deadly force was authorized in and around these locations. I was taking a junior enlisted with me on rounds, when I note that one of the doors to a secure building is unlocked and open. I go to check things out and try to radio down to the shack that we had an unsecured building. No response, radio is out of range. Next option is to call the shack, which would require entering the building. SO recalling SOP which I memorized upon joining unit, I instructed junior enlisted back-up to draw duty pistol, point down of course, finger off trigger, and act as my back up to clear the building. We get to the third floor and find an office with allot of people making allot of noise. Give furtive instruction to backup along the lines of "don't kill anyone" "don't point unless you intend to destroy" "Talk first fire second" stuff like that. We come to agreement and we make entry forcing everyone to the floor prostrate, spread eagle, palms up you know all that goofy stuff.

After collecting ID's and checking in with the Shack via land-line find out that these were all people who worked there during the week. No-one had checked the key out, so there was an illegal key floating around which I confiscated, and they did not sign in that they were would in on the weekend per regulation.

We let them go after taking all information.

Next Day their NCOIC was up in arms that his men where held at gun point and what was the world coming to. Essentially the sky was falling.

My NCOIC brings me up on office hours for dereliction of duty and excessive show of force. Of course I did not know this until I was standing before the man during office hours, at which point I recited my response was dictated by regulations, which could be located in SOP, Chptr X, Page Y, Section Z. The colonel looks at me, looks at the Cpt., Looks at the MGySgt. and asks "Is that right?"

A few minutes and a copy of the SOP validates my statement. I am dismissed to continue my day.

SO what did I learn from this what could be considered mistake if viewed from one angle, is that doing your job and knowing your job are two different things. I can do my job and without knowing it, would have been held accountable. Thereafter I have always "Known" my job.

As well, having successfully defended my honor I was now considered, the SME regarding SOP. At which point I was asked to review and re-write.

Always know your job before your do your job.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 6:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 18:28:40 -0400

I too have had my phase of pretending to understand. I have learned...repeatedly in the past...that it's way better to suffer the wrath NOW, and fix the issue NOW, before it gets out of hand. If you don't speak up now, the issue will get to a point that no one can do anything about it AND you get in trouble in addition with them being pissed you never said anything. Now I just say, "Hi I'm a dope. Here is what happened...." and then I hide around a corner while they yell haha

Ensuring BFT systems were ready for Annual Training (when I knew nothing about them but pretended I did so I can focus on other things) was among those experiences. Yep, they weren't ready, and it was too late :-)

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Sep 23 at 2014 7:47 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:47:33 -0400

I was in Hanua Germany as an MP. Got a 'shots fired' call to one of the housing areas. The desk sergeant said this was probably BS but requested that I and my good buddy both go, we were specialist at the time. He gave me strict instructions, that I'm do whatever it takes to keep the situation calm and make her happy (but not that way, you perverts).

We get there and spoke with the 'witness'. She was a dependent and her husband was deployed downrange. We actually found shell casings from a starter pistol or other small caliber blank. I called the desk sergeant, after a few minutes I was instructed that no further action was to be taken. Once she was calm, we were to leave. She was so stressed but we managed to calm her down, my buddy who was a bit more tactful than I actually took a statement (wasn't needed, done for her benefit). Just when we thought we had her calm she started up again.

So, I thinking perhaps she would prefer an NCO, I called for the patrol supervisor. When he got there he proceeded to chew me out for wasting time, yelling and screaming about what a waste of time this was and on and on.

Well if anyone remembers the old VW vans the MP's used to drive, know there was a work station in the back for writing reports and taking statements and such... That's where she was, listening to all this...

I told the NCO, thank you for your assistance we will wrap this up and go as soon as the statement was done. He left without much more to say. She wrapped up her statement fairly quickly after that, thanked us for responding, and wished us a nice day.

We go back to the MP station, the desk sergeant 'talked' to us about it. He said we handled it well. That was that...

nooooo...

She apparently called my company commander directly. About two weeks or so later we are sitting in a briefing in the old movie theater on Fliegerhorst when my buddy and I were told to report to the captain, in the lobby.

As in "Specialist Fleming reporting as ordered, sir" (salute)... He says he heard good things about the two of us but wanted to know the full details of what had happened. My extremely nervous buddy says "it happened as you heard, sir"... there was a long awkward pause before the captain says "what did I hear?"

Well my buddy was now lost for words, couldn't speak... so I said, "If I may sir, what he meant was, that there wasn't much to the event and that it didn't require follow up actions" (or something along those lines). So the captain says ok, and asks about the NCO (patrol supervisor). My buddy still reeling from his earlier statement couldn't answer so, I explained the very basics of what happened (downplaying the sergeant's outburst). Then we get the professionalism and respect speech... {Why do officers always give that?} And he could talk (but I didn't see how it pertained to my buddy or I). Talk... talk... talk... silence. For a good 10 seconds or so there was not a sound. Finally my buddy and I both say "sir?"

To which he says "Come on Fleming I know you have more to say..." So, I proceed to explain how it was all a misunderstanding and she was upset by the events and that she misinterpreted his gruffness for disrespect, and that perhaps she made it out to be a bigger issue than it really was. (She hadn't, if we were deployed I would have smacked him in the mouth and still downplayed his inappropriate behavior).

Well, the captain was satisfied, proceeded to speak to us a bit socially, non-related to the topic. (In hindsight that bit was probably to calm my buddy more than anything...) Once he was done and dismissed us my lieutenant said "Fleming stop by my office, I'll be there shortly".

Being the good specialist I was, I went straight there. Inside was my platoon sergeant, he asked what I wanted and told him I didn't know, the Lt wanted me. We proceeded into idle chitchat about nothingness when all of sudden the door SLAMMED SHUT!

The platoon sergeant jumped to attention his eyes were the size of dinner plates (literally). It was all over the sergeant's face "what did you do?" He had a sign hanging behind his desk that said "I don't need any help getting in trouble" and his eyes darted towards it. Well I found this funny.

The Lt proceeded to rip into me about my behavior and that when you speak the 'man' it's yes sir, no sir and that's it. It found that amusing as I didn't know what I had actually done that was so wrong. His voice raised as he got madder, that made it funnier, the madder he got... the madder he got the funnier it seemed... I mean I could feel the heat in my face from holding back laughter. Then he called me a "dadgum numbskull" this was just too much and the look on my platoon sergeants face... I was about to burst! The Lt had gotten so mad that he began stuttering and couldn't speak except to say "get the hell out of my office" and "send in 'the patrol supervisor'" (name withheld).

I barely stepped through the door when I began to laugh. The long hallway was filled with people all looking to see who the LT was yelling at. The patrol supervisor was standing there and said "what did you do?" I replied "I don't know but your next..."

So of course I listened at the door. The Lt forced himself to calm down then said, "Specialist Fleming spoke with commander, the matter is dropped. Dismissed..."

Moral of the story... if your gonna cover for someone be prepared for the consequences.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 12:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2015 12:30:16 -0400

I remember as a young private, and 11B. We were training for my very first ever live fire exercise. Squad level. They were going over everything and I made like I understood. Which I didn't. During the live fire when we "took contact" I took a knee in the open and started shooting. My team leader, a SPC at that time, looked at, got up, made me put my M4 on safe, grabbed me by the back of my LBV, and placed me behind cover and said, now shoot. From then on I learned, that If I didn't know, ask. That day I knew I could get my buddies killed if I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I took that and rocked with it. I try to be same with any Soldiers I train and teach now. There are other lessons I've learned in my 13 years, but this one immediately stuck out when I read this post.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 19 at 2020 3:18 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 19 May 2020 15:18:26 -0400

Not having enough compassion until it was my turn to break down.