What Role Does Religion Play Within Our Military?

2014-11-26T12:52:57-05:00

With member of the military identifying with 98 different religions, it is evident our Armed Forces is extremely diverse. Unfortunately, religious differences sometimes cause feelings of animosity between service members. Are you less likely to trust another service member who does not identify with the same religion as you?

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Nov 26 at 2014 12:54 PM

2014-11-26T12:54:11-05:00

I feel that it helps many people dictate their right from wrong and their direction in life. I have found that no matter the religion I am likely to trust those near me after learning of their actions, I could care less about what they believe.

I think the family unit is a much bigger driver in staying in the service, but that is another conversation.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-11-26T13:27:23-05:00

I'm a little disappointed that 30% of military members are unable to trust other service members with a different (or no) religion.

One hopes this is a factor in the abstract, but not where the rubber meets the road. Similar to what happened when DADT was repealed. Plenty of military folks held self-identified moral stances against "the gay lifestyle" and worried about unit cohesion...but when someone they had served with in combat, or for years, came out as gay it was no big deal. So hopefully, that 30% feels in the abstract that they would have a hard time trusting someone with different religious beliefs, but when told a close colleague is an atheist/Buddhist/etc, would look at it as no big deal.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 2:11 PM

2014-11-26T14:11:23-05:00

A person's religion holds no bearing on their worth as a person, co-worker, fellow Service Member, etc. Yes, it identifies you as a part of a group with similar beliefs, but a person is still an individual making their own decisions and interacting with others. As long as a person lives up to the values of their Branch of Service and their own ideals, I have no problem with them.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 26 at 2014 8:54 PM

2014-11-26T20:54:28-05:00

I don't need to know the exact statistics to see that differences in religion affect our military. I see the conflict on RallyPoint evey day. Freedom of Religion means just that. If you want freedom to practice your religion you live in the right country. If you want to serve your country by being in the armed forces, you have come to the right place. If you feel like you have to force your opinions, beliefs, and values on each other you may need to rethink the concept of "freedom."
Has religion played a role in driving wedges of dissention that truly affect readiness? I say no, but I also urge caution. This question can only be answered based on our own understanding of what religion truly means. But the way Uncle Mark understands his religion I will say don't be so quick to judge the actions of an individual based on what religion they claim to follow. When some deranged POP (piece of poop) kills and says it is because of their beliefs, that claim is made by a truly disturbed individual. Just because THEIR twisted mind uses THEIR understanding of religion to justify THEIR actions, it isn't the religion causing the actions. I'm no theologist, but I don't believe any one religion says to kill people who don't agree with each other.
What makes these "religious extremists" successful is their ability to twist religion to fit their needs and get followers to believe that their beliefs are under attack, and not their actions. It sickens me to see people attacking each others beliefs on RallyPoint. Some members go as far as to join conversations just to piss on their beliefs and then spew the most vile, hurtful comments back and forth; Officers, NCO's, and Enlisted alike. Respect each other's opinions and agree to disagree. Go convert elsewhere if you believe that you must save the world and force others to believe as you do. As I come down from my soap box, I say that I am a proud Christian who is respectful of everyones opinions and I will not engage anyone in discussion as to why I believe the things that I do. I do not speak for, or on behalf of RallyPoint. I come to this site to help, to offer support, and to build each other up. That is MY purpose. What is it that you gain, or hope to gain by tearing each other down?

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Nov 26 at 2014 9:01 PM

2014-11-26T21:01:16-05:00

I don't care what a person religion is because we serve only one God, many of my friends aren't baptist like me. But we have a lot in common and mutual respect for one another, some people become an fanatic and end up causing hate and discontent. But the role religion plays in the military just like anywhere else outside of the military, when someone is hurting and need the word of God for encouragement. For example, when we mourn a loss of a love one, relative, falling comrade, confuse and need direction, just to name a few.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 2:00 AM

2014-11-27T02:00:07-05:00

The enemy that is bearing down on you and your buddies, doesn't really care to much if you all practice the same religion or not. And I don't think they care if your atheist. They are going to kill you just the same. So practice your faith. But you better learn to trust your brothers and sisters. Your life may depend on it. So I have to say no, religion never figured in to my trust of individuals but rather their actions.

Response by SSG Leonard J W. made Nov 27 at 2014 3:27 AM

2014-11-27T03:27:32-05:00

I personally believe that this is why each service has core values that are taught upon entry. I'm an avid Christian, but that won't make me discriminate against another person's beliefs. There are many types of religious preferences that I have served with. There has never been a problem as long as they were upholding those values that we both agreed to uphold as service members. Integrity is one of the values that all branches have in common - and I think it's for that specific reason (trust amongst members).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 10:56 AM

2014-11-27T10:56:48-05:00

I personally think that religion and trust should not even be tied together. Trust comes from a persons character and ability to do their job. Not who or what they believe in.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 6:57 AM

2014-11-28T06:57:05-05:00

I don't believe religion is the "be all, end all" trust factor when looking at the person next to you. It is the ability to believe in a higher power and that we don't all have the answers. Essentially when we joined the military, we were supposed to be buying in to something higher than yourselves and while not all leaders need to believe in a god, I find it important to see the purpose of believing in something higher plays a role in. I try not to discuss religion unless someone asks me about what I believe in but at the same time, I make it clear that I believe in something, like our Core Values for the USAF. Sounds corny, maybe even unbelievable but this belief has served me well in my almost eight years of service.

Response by SPC John Decker made Nov 29 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-11-29T13:15:31-05:00

Not less likely, unless it is apparent that the other service member has a distrust of me.

Response by SFC Timothy Snapp made Nov 30 at 2014 12:04 PM

2014-11-30T12:04:26-05:00

I find it interesting that the basic poll for this article breaks down denominations not religions. Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc., are all Christian denominations. Buddhism, Muslim, Jewish, among the others are differing religions. As most of these responses have said, if it does not affect the completion of the mission it should not matter. Professionals should be able to put differences aside for the good of the organization.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2014 9:57 PM

2014-12-04T21:57:07-05:00

I also would have to say it serves a learning experience. I had a very skewed view of Christianity and Catholicism coming in because i am Wiccan. All the same, some people had skewed views of my religion as well but they did not dwell on it. Rather, they wanted to learn what the religion was all about and see if their beliefs had any weight. Upon discovering it did not, for both of us, we each came out better informed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 1:18 AM

2014-12-05T01:18:56-05:00

Every Religion will claim to be better than the next. i live by two mottos. "Ever since there has been a GOD, there has been a man willing to kill in his name". though i am Christian (non-practicing that is) i believe there is good in all religions. our military was built off christian values as our country was. but we have since grown. i think we play too much into the "politically correct" game and try to make every one happy. this tears up our core. you cant make everyone happy, so stop trying. ever wonder why we still pray before a ceremony. ive seen atheists bow their heads during an invocation. i asked them what they did when we bowed our heads. one said sleep, one said think about his wife at home naked. lol. they bowed their heads out of respect for the beliefs of those around them. religion is like meat. some love meat, some dont. so let those who like beef eat it and those that like veggies eat that. you cant change our core values to satisfy one group. otherwise you'll piss off another group. so if an atheist says that he will not join because the oath of enlistment ends with "so help me god" then he has the right not to join.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 5 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-12-05T12:39:40-05:00

For me I only had faith in two things in a fire fight. My God and the guy next to me. Depending on how the shit has hit the fan I would rate which one was more important at the time.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 11:33 PM

2014-12-06T23:33:44-05:00

Let's look at the the underlying themes of each view of God's desire for our view of how we should look at each other. Jesus Christ said to love each other as ourselves. Neither the Hebrew or Muslim texts give that advice; there is a lot of vengeance there. I believe that is a large reason why we can't move forward in the Middle East. Islam and Judaism is about vengeance. Only Christ Jesus preaches forgiveness and turning the other cheek. This is not a supplication. If you read the text in Matthew if someone strikes your right cheek to turn the other cheek, it is a call to stand against someone who thinks you are inferior. If a right-handed person (typically the majority) strikes your right cheek (a back-handed slap), they are back-handing you (treating you as an inferior). The Gospel implies, stand up and make them strike you as an equal on your left cheek (a fore-handed slap). Jesus was not a pacifist. He wanted to challenge the status quo. He challenged the entire religion that was at the time. In his words, He came to fulfill the laws, not to please the Pharisees (the ruling elite).

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Dec 7 at 2014 12:15 AM

2014-12-07T00:15:51-05:00

I thought it interesting that Catholic, Christian, ETC were all considered different religions? While I am willing to listen to the difference between Catholics and Protestants, they are both Christians. So the top five are all Christians, even if they label the same basic group with 90 labels.

Response by 1LT Keith Gannon made Dec 7 at 2014 5:35 PM

2014-12-07T17:35:35-05:00

I've got no problem with other faiths, but I can tell you the US army would have bigger problems than boys running around videotaping girls showering in their submarines if they had to share the demographics of the UK and other Western nations. The US miraculously finds itself with an overwhelming Christian majority amongst its ranks despite its open arms to the sick, tired, and poor of the world. I recall an especially cringe-worthy social experiment where our Basic Officer Leadership Course cadre took us to a mosque in El Paso to orient ourselves to unfamiliar territory...a few officers thought it an appropriate occasion to defend the teachings of Christ. Can't recall a more embarrassing situation in my life.

26% no preference...I specified atheist, and a Christian personnel soldier said "ok, we'll just list you as no preference." That's what was stamped on my dog tags, and that's what's reported here. My Battalion commander was Christian, and my O-3 supervisor on deployment was Christian....held daily prayer circles and told me to leave when I stood alongside my soldiers in an event that they felt was important on company time.

We also had a civilian (who got to wear an army uniform with LTC rank - was not, and never was in the army) operate as our battalion chaplain because the commander liked him and he knew the adjutant general of our state.

Then there was that glorious moment of tolerance in OCS when we were funneled into an auditorium and told that anyone who isn't a Christian can stand outside in the cold and wait for the Christian briefing and service to be over. Me and three Jewish soldiers stood outside and stared at each other as we took the walk of shame past the cadre for not sharing their religion.

This is merely an anecdote to inform fellow soldiers that this institution is not the beacon of morality it totes itself as. There is a reason why strangers on the other side of the world do not like us. We are an organization with an identity crisis that finds itself unprepared for the burden of diplomacy that is necessary for 21st century warfare. Getting past religious differences would be a monumental first step.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2014 10:53 AM

2014-12-11T10:53:15-05:00

Regardless of one's religion (or lack of), proselytizing has NO PLACE in the service or by anyone in a uniform except for a Chaplain during a religious service or when counseling for a service member of their faith. It shouldn't happen between colleagues and it certainly shouldn't happen between superiors and their subordinates.

As a member of any service, enlisted or officer, you cannot make any sort of political statement in uniform or in a way that reflects your position in the military, the same should go for religion. Your religion has nothing to do with the execution of your duties and shouldn't come up.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Dec 11 at 2014 6:02 PM

2014-12-11T18:02:18-05:00

Looking at the: Religion In The Military Poster that RallyPoint has posted and uploaded, in 1972, the denominations of Christians, Baptist, Methodist and Protestant are all the same. Back then you had to be a Catholic or Protestant, they did not individualize denominations, you had to choice one during Boot Camp. Atheist did not exist, they considered you are the devil, and Physical Trained you all during church services.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Dec 11 at 2014 6:14 PM

2014-12-11T18:14:26-05:00

As with all other posts, I speak only for myself and my experiences. The one experience that I will share now is that in 2003/04 in IRAQ as a CO 1SG... this shows trust that transcends religion.

I, as a non practicing Methodist, had a orderly room SGT that was Wiccan, his clerk was LDS, my driver was an Iranian muslin (1st Gen. American), my Supply SSG was Southern Baptist, one of the supply clerks with a practicing Buddhist the other was Lutheran, my CO was Catholic and his driver was Jewish.

We shared many a hairy night in Baghdad, Mosul, Tal-Afar... you get the idea.... and a few other events like... Thanksgiving and Christmas.... and yes Ramadan and Hanukah... This was respect for the soldier and the person... like LDRSHIP says. I had their backs and I knew they had mine.

This did not change back in the states. We of course all went our separate ways as is life in the service... retiring, ETSing... a few are still in... and we talk all the time on various social forums.

Freedom of Religion is our right... not to trust because of someone's religion is not conducive to team building.... and building trust... and frankly... rather sad. That's our job in the military... building trust and building teams.

Oh, if the above doesn't show that trust and team building can transcend religious affiliation... I don't know what does.

my 2 cents

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2014 7:19 PM

2014-12-11T19:19:11-05:00

A persons religious affiliation is probably one of the last thing that I would learn about a person. Ones affiliation does not make them a good or bad Soldier. I have had the opportunity to talk with a few different views of who you someone may call "God" but it never leads to not being able to trust that person. I believe most everyone in the military has a general understanding that you can have your own beliefs and practices and not be judged by that. I always look forward to the opportunity to talk with different religions so I can learn more and be more educated with people.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 5:22 AM

2014-12-14T05:22:22-05:00

Much like any other aspect of your bias, your religion colors how you see the world, how you think people ought to treat each other, what you think is right and wrong (personally) and where you think you're going when you die. I don't think religion is the cause of conflict but it can be the reason for it and I don't think differences in religions degrade readiness. Fortunately, in the military, we have standards of character as well as standards of conduct. In the Army, we call them the Army Values. It doesn't matter what you believe personally, when you voluntarily enter the Army, you're supposed to live your life in accordance with those 7 values. If every Soldier were to do that, what they believed before he or she entered becomes less of an issue. The problem isn't the fact that one Soldier may be Mormon while the other is Wiccan. The problem is when either of those two belief systems get in the way of either Soldier doing his or her job.

Response by Sgt Harlin Seritt made Dec 15 at 2014 12:20 PM

2014-12-15T12:20:01-05:00

"Are you less likely to trust another service member who does not identify with the same religion as you?" -- No, not at all. It's best to evaluate another person by who they are, their morals and experiences but not by their religion.

Response by CW4 Laird Culver made Dec 20 at 2014 11:16 AM

2014-12-20T11:16:58-05:00

We are a nation founded on several principles one of them being religious freedom. Our military protects the principles important to the citizens of the United States of America. That being said it is an important part of the military, but it is a principle for which we are all responsible to one another to accomplish the mission and respect one another's differences of opinion and beliefs. The United States military has been at the forefront of protecting our freedoms and every non-believer gets that "foxhole faith" when it hits the fan. So whether you believe in God, Allah, Buddha... are Christian, Muslim, Hindi, Agnostic, Aetheistic... your religious beliefs as a service member do play an important part in who you are and what you are willing to do.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 8:56 PM

2014-12-20T20:56:17-05:00

I am personally Asatru and have found it very difficult to practice in the Army, When I was at Fort Riley I was in charge of the Pagan group and was told to remove the group from the post as they could no longer support us. I was frustrated because there were only a few groups asked to not practice on the post, Jewish, Pagans, Muslims, and any other small groups were told there were groups outside of post where we could go. However the Christians, Baptists, and Catholics were allowed to stay. I feel we should be allowed to practice how we want and I will not force my beliefs on another. I was even told by my OIC that I could not longer talk about or bring my books to the work place as it offended people. My response to her was then I do not want to see any bibles at work or hear about the bible in anyway. I knew who I offended because she would always try and convert me to her beliefs. I think that everyone should be allowed to believe what they want, no one religion is 100% correct. No one in a place of power should ever tell another that they can not believe or follow their practices just because it bothers one. Should she have come to me, yes I would have been more careful about not discussing it in front of her. Well my soap box, anyway every soldier has a right to believe whatever they want but not force it on another.

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Dec 21 at 2014 5:53 PM

2014-12-21T17:53:35-05:00

Religion is much like Politics. It will always be there under the surface. You should push your Religious point of views or believes onto anyone, no one has those Rights. Those Rights are spelled out in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. No other laws Federal, State, or Local and even local Military regulation are suppose to be able to deny these Rights. Yet, even in to many school districts, it seems you can't find anything related to Christianity in any subject, but Islam creep into many subjects in the name of diversity. Which is wrong, for if you can't teach information or facts of one Religion, you shouldn't teach facts or information from any. It should be the same in the Military, the only person(s) are the Chaplain and their assistants who speak and provide any type of information. Even then the individual soldier should have the right to end any conversation they don't want to be part of.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Dec 24 at 2014 10:42 AM

2014-12-24T10:42:09-05:00

Well, as a follower of Jesus, I think the statement "Unfortunately, religious differences sometimes cause feelings of animosity" means you're doing it wrong :-) - at least if you take Jesus as an example seriously. I've read through the bible in it's entirety and find no place ever that Jesus talked with animosity toward anyone, ever - and he KNEW if they were of a different belief! :-)

In both the old & new testament, there are many examples of God demonstrating His love for all people - never animosity.

For what it's worth, I would never let anything come before me trusting another military member with my life (and I would hope the same in return) unless they proved they were not worthy of that trust (the actions of Bergdahl comes to mind) - and their religious beliefs would not be a factor for me at all.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 12:27 AM

2014-12-29T00:27:50-05:00

I feel it plays a huge part in our military. no mater your religion you need something to hold onto and to keep you in line.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 2:16 PM

2014-12-30T14:16:50-05:00

Am I the only one that finds issues with separating out Christian, Baptist, Methodist, Protestant and Roman Catholic as different religions? There are most certainly differences in doctrine and practice, but all, arguably, carry the same belief in God and Jesus Christ.

As one who identifies as Christian, I don't consider Roman Catholics, Baptists, Methodists or Protestants to be any less Christian than myself.

After all, the difference is what is in the heart and only God can judge that.

Response by SPC Charles Griffith made Jan 11 at 2015 1:42 AM

2015-01-11T01:42:48-05:00

Religion is your Faith in YOUR God If you are having an issue I suggest you contact your Chaplin and have him explain your Faith to you again. All of the Religions I have studied save one are predicated on treating ALL humans with compassion and respect. If you are a member of the one exception that I have studied I suggest you do some soul searching and see where it leads you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2015 7:05 AM

2015-01-11T07:05:35-05:00

i think that religion is very important to the military. The word of God has been used many times in the founding of the military by some of our greatest Military leaders in the United States. We can not limit or stop what this nation was founded upon. Gen Washington Prayed and asked his Soldiers to pray before battle. Look at out values they are so alike to what the bible teaches. In our public schools the ten commandments are now not allowed to posted on the walls but look all around the units on the walls and read a bible and open your eyes to whats in front of you.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 18 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-01-18T22:19:31-05:00

As an anti-theist/atheist I only received degradation once while I was in. It was when I first joined and was getting my ID tags. They asked me my religious preference and I stated "atheist". The 'kindly' E-5 told me he won't put that on my tags and told me to get right with god. He stamped 'no religious preference recorded' on my tags, and I still have them to this day.
Other than that, never did someones religion seem to play any role, negative or positive, while I was in. Everyone seemed much more interested in having a good time.

Response by LTC Herman Valentine made Jan 19 at 2015 10:34 AM

2015-01-19T10:34:34-05:00

Trust, Camaraderie, unit cohesion and efficiency are all based on the deeds and personal performance of the soldiers, not their words or professions of faith/non-faith. In my 32+ years of service I have found that those who did follow a particular faith, were excellent Soldiers and were very close-knit with those Soldiers that did not profess a particular (if any faith), and they were also great Soldiers! Beyond that, it's no one's business but the individual Soldier.

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Jan 19 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-01-19T13:17:08-05:00

To answer the first question, religion does play an important role in the military. Many people's religion are their source of strength in adverse conditions, and is also their moral compass.

Based on my experience as a Marine, the last question is irrelevant. It did not matter a persons beliefs, we were brothers, and a team. regardless of our beliefs, we all had each others backs. I am also confident that many of us would have sacrificed for our brothers.

Religion is a personal thing that drives the individual. I have been out of the service for nearly thirty years now and the religious debate is more active now than when I served. I think it is a debate that is causing tensions within the military that should not be.

Leaders from the president down to the lowest in the military should try to unite service members. There are all kinds of diversity programs to teach us to be understanding and tolerant of those from different cultures and backgrounds. I think the politically correct mentality is cause unnecessary division in the ranks.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Feb 1 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-02-01T21:21:50-05:00

Seems to me that there should be no proscribed religion. However, because of what we do, individual religious practices (consistent with good order and discipline) should be encouraged for the resiliency of the Force.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-02-01T21:23:33-05:00

No where in the Constitution does it say we are a secular nation or that the government were not fond of religion.
We were founded on Christian values and beliefs.

Every anti religion person out there like to quote TJ. He wrote the separation of church and state line in a letter many years after.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-02-01T21:24:03-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member. ABSOLUTELY!!! ALWAYS!!! Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:31 PM

2015-02-01T21:31:46-05:00

The GAT tool tells me I need more spiritual in my life... What is the difference between spiritual and religion? Someone please try to differentiate these two for me..? Because I feel like it is telling me I need more religion in my life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-02-01T21:52:03-05:00

Sgt. Alt I suggest you read the federalist papers. We were far from secular. Massachusetts established a state religion shortly after ratification of the U.S. constitution. The first amendment, and therefore the establishment clause wasn't applicable to the states until after the 14th amendment was ratified during reconstruction. (The actual incorporation of the 1st amendment happened many many years after the 14th was ratified)

Also, you will find many many legal scholars that disagree with your living constitution view including several Supreme Court justices.

Unfortunately you are a product of talking points without learning history. I am not trying to offend but educate. Please take as so. Long story short -religion has a place in our military so long as no one is forced to attend any service and your faith doesn't interfere with your duty.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-02-01T21:52:56-05:00

Regarding atheist chaplains.

First if a Chaplain (regardless of religious faith) can't serve everyone in the unit (Army) they should not be a Chaplain! They are trained to be able to perform or provide every service needed by the members of their unit. (Perform means they do the service, Provide is when they figure out another person/organization that can perform if they are unable to because of the restrictions based on their faith endorser.)

Second, what does anyone need a chaplain for? In my opinion, it is to serve as a person of faith for the betterment of all in the unit within and without their faith. If someone has no faith, why would they need a chaplain? If the need is for a counselor, we have those (and Chaplains serve that role as well).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 12:47 AM

2015-02-02T00:47:10-05:00

You know... I feel like religion has a huge role in the military. It's deeply engrained in our culture. Especially during a time of war, where there is a possibility of danger, and death. Sometimes we see things that make us believe in miracles. It gives people solace to know that there is a higher power out there watching our backs.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 9:49 AM

2015-02-02T09:49:03-05:00

Allowing the exercise of religion is not a defacto case for establishment. By removing religion and all references, they would be establishing a "God free-zone" which would prohibit free exercise.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Either you take an oath to defend the Constitution as it's written and allow people including it's leaders to exercise their rights as individuals or choose not to take the oath and avoid places that require an oath to the Constitution. As an agnostic, I would have an issue if I was ordered to go to a particular service, but out of respect for a large body praying, I would bow my head in silence, because respecting others ideology is more important than my personal beliefs.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Feb 2 at 2015 10:40 PM

2015-02-02T22:40:40-05:00

This is so odd to me. The only time I ever felt anything negative toward my lack of belief was when I first joined and was told I could not have anti-theist on my tags. Other than that, there was not a single time I felt like any religion was against me.

You could look at my previous posts and see I do not like religion. I would be much happier if everyone simply stopped being religious. But that's not going to happen. Servicemen and servicewomen will be religious well past my lifetime.

I see no reason to impose any sort of religious ban as that would not just be a violation of our 1st amendment, but it would be a violation of our very basic human right of freedom of choice.

Also, I don't see a need for chaplains in the military. I don't see why we cannot all just speak with therapists, and if you want to see a priest, or any 'holy' man, there are thousands of churches in every direction.

Response by PO3 Sharon Ford made Feb 3 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-02-03T08:06:08-05:00

It sounds to me that you're not comfortable with your decision to be atheist. So the solution is to ostracize the people with religious beliefs like you feel. If we go back to multiple documents from the "Founding Fathers", most of them mention God or some form of religious reference.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Feb 3 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-02-03T12:57:56-05:00

Sgt Alt,

Your view is not uncommon these days but it is grossly incorrect. There is so much wrong in your post it would take a long time to go through them one by one. One thing I would ask you to consider is the Supreme Court Case of The Holy Trinity Church vs The United States as a starting point. The case was about a labor dispute but the justices, as part of their ruling, explored the founding of the US and the concept of this being a Christian nation or not. I pasted a small portion of their ruling below but the entire decision is easy to find on line by searching the case name.

You are entilted to believe what you wish but the facts are not really in dispute for those willing to do an honest examination of the history.

Also, you seem very concerned about Chaplains in the US Miltary which you might be surprised to learn were put in place by the Continental Congress and George Washington. They felt the Chaplaincy was essential to the military well being.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Church of the Holy Trinity vs the United States 1892

Even the constitution of the United States, which is supposed to have little touch upon the private life of the individual, contains in the first amendment a declaration common to the constitutions of all the states, as follows: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," etc., - and also provides in article 1, § 7, (a provision common to many constitutions,) that the executive shall have 10 days (Sundays excepted) within which to determine whether he will approve or veto a bill.

There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning. They affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons. They are organic utterances. They speak the voice of the entire people. While because of a general recognition of this truth the question has seldom been presented to the courts, yet we find that in Updegraph v. Comm., 11 Serg. & R. 394, 400, it was decided that, "Christianity, general Christianity, is, and always has been, a part of the common law of Pennsylvania; * * * not Christianity with an established church and tithes and spiritual courts, but Christianity with liberty of conscience to all men." And in People v. Ruggles, 8 Johns. 290, 294, 295, Chancellor KENT, the great commentator on American law, speaking as chief justice of the supreme court of New York, said: "The people of this state, in common with the people of this country, profess the general doctrines of Christianity as the rule of their faith and practice; and to scandalize the author of those doctrines in not only, in a religious point of view, extremely impious, but, even in respect to the obligations due to society, is a gross violation of decency and good order. * * * The free, equal, and undisturbed enjoyment of religious opinion, whatever it may be, and free and decent discussions on any religious [143 U.S. 457, 471] subject, is granted and secured; but to revile, with malicious and blasphemous contempt, the religion professed by almost the whole community is an abuse of that right. Nor are we bound by any expressions in the constitution, as some have strangely supposed, either not to punish at all, or to punish indiscriminately the like attacks upon the religion of Mahomet or of the Grand Lama; and for this plain reason that the case assumes that we are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply ingrafted upon Christianity, and not upon the doctrines or worship of those impostors." And in the famous case of Vidal v. Girard's Ex'rs, 2 How. 127, 198, this court, while sustaining the will of Mr. Girard, with its provisions for the creation of a college into which no minister should be permitted to enter, observed: "it is also said, and truly, that the Christian religion is a part of the common law of Pennsylvania."

If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters note the following: The form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, "In the name of God, amen;" the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation. In the face of all these, shall it be believed that a congress of the United States intended to make it a misdemeanor for a church of this country to contract for the services of a Christian minister residing in another nation?

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Feb 3 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-02-03T14:35:23-05:00

These types of questions come up quite a bit. I have spent some time reading documents from when our country was founded. The puritans and others came to the New World (US) to escape religious persecution. As John Winthrop stated, their goal was to create a new community that would be a "city on a hill" from Matthew 5:14.

As time went on, different denominations formed, there are hundreds of splinters of Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, etc.

When Thomas Jefferson was addressing the Danbury Baptists, many in the audience were fearful that one denomination would be put over another. This is when he said there would be no sponsored religion...or in the context of his speech, no one denomination over the other.

Fast forward decades, and now the Supreme Court has interpreted this to be no religion over the other. I am fine with that, I think that no one should be forced to believe another person's religion. At the same time though, i think we have taken it too far where we are stymieing people's expression of religion in an attempt to not offend anyone.

I also believe in response to the question, only in the military will you be in a profession that you can face life or death in a way others will not (aside from police, etc) and your faith plays a profound role in how you face death.

For me and many I have served with, our believe in God is crucial to finding peace in making the best decision under pressure to accomplish the mission and also for the betterment of the unit.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Feb 3 at 2015 6:39 PM

2015-02-03T18:39:00-05:00

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."

For those that have religion, it is a core part of who they are. It is ingrained into their belief system and personality traits. The Army values have always been a part of my life, because they have a foundation in my religion. It's not something I'll abandon or give up to serve, because its who I am. I think religion should play a bigger role in the military, because it would improve morale and the health of our service members to have more soldiers understand the foundation of each others beliefs.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-02-03T20:54:56-05:00

Currently I do not practice anything, but I do believe in a higher power then ourselves. I honestly believe that our men and women wearing the uniform need something to believe in, and who are we to judge them based on that particular belief structure, for the most part these beliefs have become who the are as a person. If they are able to function and complete the mission then why is their an issue?

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-02-04T16:48:59-05:00

I think its a good thing to give our guys the ability and option to follow their religion in their service. I like the way it is, but some more chances to practice our various religions would be a nice change.

Response by SPC Michael Murphy made Feb 4 at 2015 4:50 PM

2015-02-04T16:50:37-05:00

Our country was found in judeao Christian principals, our chaplains are not allowed to pray in the name of Jesus, because we do not want to offend others, have some one bad mouth Mohammed or destroy a Koran

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-02-05T14:30:32-05:00

Non-issue

No one is forced to pray. No one is forced to say "I swear..." You can now say, “I affirm..." We now say "Happy Holidays" rather than Merry Christmas. We have done enough to satisfy Atheists.

Don’t believe in God? No problem. But, I can guarantee that a believer’s need to be allowed to believe far outweighs a need to make it a religious free zone. Why does the mass majority have to subside for the sake of the very small minority? The believers in the military are not pushing religion down your throat. So, why are Atheists pushing their agenda down ours?

Religion within the military is not evil. Religion throughout history was not the source of evil. What makes religion so problematic are the fanatics and extremists that use religion as an excuse to commit evil atrocities.

There are so many other pressing issues that we need to address within our ranks. In my opinion, taking away something that is so sought over for support and strength is foolish. What does an Atheist rely on for comfort, or strength, or spiritual guidance? Regardless of the answer, are we looking to take that away from them?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-02-11T14:37:35-05:00

You're joking with this question right? This is why people need the word. Yes! I'm a southern baptist! I talk about my GOD on and off duty and can't no regulation make me do otherwise! I am not ashamed of my GOD. But yall really gotta stop making stuff about religion. Like what does that have to do with anything??

Response by SMSgt Bryan Raines made Feb 11 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-02-11T15:20:12-05:00

I see your point but disagree. Religion plays a large role in the moral and welfare of the majority of our servicemen and women. Since atheism is not a religion I don't really see how you can have an atheist chaplain, also all chaplains have to be able to interact on religious (spiritual) level with military members who request it regardless of the religion of chaplain or the service member requesting the chaplain's help/advice. By the very tenant of atheism it would be anathema for an atheist to do this. However that should not prevent you from having some sort of support mechanism in place for your own spiritual well being (spiritual not having anything religious in this context) In that vein of thought no person serving in the military in or out of combat should be denied the opportunity to speak with someone concerning their faith or spiritual well being and be able to do so free from persecution or ridicule. (This would mean don't substitute mental health for chaplains)

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Feb 11 at 2015 3:52 PM

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For anyone to say that religion should play no role in the military concerns me. It concerns me because we should be free to practice our religious beliefs without those being restricted as long as those religious beliefs do not contradict the Constitution.

Having chaplains in the US military does not force those who do not wish to take part in religious services to do so. However, to remove chaplains from the military and to remove religion from the military would force those who did want to do so not to.

Keep things the way they are. It's there, and it's voluntary.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 4:20 PM

2015-02-11T16:20:22-05:00

"Perhaps what is most interesting about all of these events is the great importance that Washington placed upon the presence of chaplains in his army. He thought they served a valuable function, and he advocated for them consistently. Remember that Washington often faced shortages of supplies and funds. Yet he thought it important to spend some of these valuable funds on chaplains." - Tara Ross

I disagree with the modern concept that the U.S. was a "secular" nation, but rather one that was "impartial" toward religion in general. There is a difference, I think. Regardless, it is impractical, if not impossible, to remove religion from the military without denying a large number of servicemembers the right to practice their faith. The line is drawn when you require others to conform to your beliefs, and limiting and denying chaplains is doing just that, in a way.

Response by SGT Justin Singleton made Feb 11 at 2015 4:24 PM

2015-02-11T16:24:49-05:00

What is a religion? If boiled down to simple belief in a higher order, many atheists become religious in their belief in nothing more than the natural order. Just as Christians believe in Christ, Muslims believe in Allah, so atheists believe in something completely untraceable in the scientific process (as science is defined as something both observable and repeatable). All of us use science in the modern world to understand the modern world, but the world of the past (whether designed by a creator or happened by chance and natural selection) is neither observable nor repeatable...it is a faith proposition (and I say this as an anthropologist). So...how could religion be taken out of the military? Force everyone to simply adhere to the atheist religion?

Response by PO2 Billy Payne made Feb 11 at 2015 5:16 PM

2015-02-11T17:16:03-05:00

America was not founded as a secular nation. It is obvious from your post where your views lie. I would advise you to really research the founding documents of this country, the letters written, comments and quotes from Washington, the first Supreme Court, etc. Not just regurgitate revisionist history learned in school.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 5:36 PM

2015-02-11T17:36:27-05:00

I am not sure why this question should really even come up unless someone is being forced to do something they don't agree with? As an NCO, you really shouldn't be discussing religion or politics with your subordinates as that can lead to strife and cause issues with your leadership abilities. If a person wants Religion and looks to it for counseling, what is wrong with that, if you don't need Religion for counseling, that is also great. To many people Religion brings comfort and a sense of home. But like I say, just like in Business in the Civilian world, don't discuss Religion or Politics at work because it can cause problems and leave it to Each His/Her own! The Religious folks shouldn't be making anyone do something they don't like and the Aethists shoudn't be trying to totally shut out religion. Really simple here folks!

Response by SSG Daniel Miller made Feb 11 at 2015 6:41 PM

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This is a subject with no definite solution. Religion means a lot to a lot of people, Soldiers are no dofferent. As an agnostic, I don't support or denounce any religion. The amount of stake religion has in the military should be the same as our Constitution states: freedom. Religion shouldn't be forced, yet should be readily available to those who wish to practice it. And that goes for all religions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 6:44 PM

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If you can't handle talking about politics and religion in the work space, don't do it. If you let your feeling about politic and religion differences affect your professionalism and performance as a Service Member, don't talk about them. Sadly, not many people can behave like a grown up. That's why there exists the UCMJ Article 134.

Religion has a big part in the military because it keeps people spiritually healthy. In turn, they become mentally and physically healthy. Loosely speaking, military providing religious service is like providing child care, school, MWR, and so on. These services may not be valuable to you, BUT they are to some people.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 11 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-02-11T19:46:57-05:00

Sorry, once again I can't click any of the predefined answers. The issue is too complex.

When it comes to the discussion of religion, I find that its defenders often do far more damage than its opponents.

Sad.

I wish those who engage in the debate would begin by separating religion and faith.

America obviously was founded by the faithful. Every one of the Founders expressed their faith. Their faith is clearly expressed in the founding documents. Our inalienable rights come from God, not from the will of men.

Most Americans are people of faith. Even those who aren't, usually find faith when faced with death (as in the foxhole).

The authors of the Constitution obviously understood that faith and religion were independent subjects. The First Amendment was written to protect individual faith by restricting the government from establishing one religion.

Religion is a communal interpretation of faith based on beliefs. Sadly, those who are insecure in their beliefs consider different beliefs as attacks on their own. Interestingly, atheism is very much like religion in this respect. Atheists seem to see all religious beliefs as attacks on their beliefs and have counterattacked with their own. They pervert the spirit and intent of the First Amendment to impose their beliefs on the faithful. How is that different from the faithful persecuting atheists?

Why can't we all just get along and leave faith as a personal choice?

That being said, I believe that chaplains are as important as medical corpsmen on the battlefield. Essentially, they serve the same purpose. Bear with me on this one...

Imagine if there were no medical corpsmen. Every service man and woman accepts the possibility that they may be killed. However, they know full well that they are far more likely to be wounded. Why would anyone voluntarily stand up in defense of the nation if they thought they would be abandoned if wounded?

As an aside, this is one of the most disturbing issues in the failures of the VA system. You can bet that active duty personnel have at least one eye on the poor care being provided to veterans knowing that they too one day may suffer the same.

I believe the same is true when it comes to spiritual care. No one is more spiritually vulnerable than the wounded, especially the mortally wounded. Who would be willing to go in harms way if they were told that no one would be there to hold their hand as they went to meet their maker or whatever fate they believed awaited them? Who would be willing to risk death and dismemberment if they didn't have an ordained clergyman to administer religious rites before the battle? Who would be willing to pull the trigger if there wasn't someone to help them wrestle with the conflict that every warrior feels as they face the prospect of committing murder and mayhem? (Unless of course they are sociopaths. Should we deny those who serve our nation their right to religious succor just to appease the sensibilities of sociopaths?)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 8:09 PM

2015-02-11T20:09:32-05:00

I believe the answer is simple. If you believe in a higher entity than yes God has a place on our military. If you do not believe in God then there is no place for God in the military. Our military is made up of us. Your perspective may feel one way regarding the topic but look at Leadership. We acknowledge, through the different styles of Leadership, that there is a necessity for difference to coincide within our armed forces. It brings awareness of cultural diversity and allows us to learn something new no matter where we go. As I said before, if you do not believe in God then be content that he doesn't have a place in your military service. Acknowledge that there are numerous service members who feel otherwise. There is nothing wrong with it until you tell someone they cannot. That would contradict the purpose of our Constitution.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 8:28 PM

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My opinion doesn't necessarily fall into any of those. I'm at a mix between it should play no role and things are fine the way they are. I believe religion shouldn't be prevalent in our ceremonies, but everyone has the right to their beliefs and those MUST be respected, while at the same time they MUST understand clear left and right limits of what is acceptable and what isn't.

I love the role Chaplains play - service members should be able to talk to someone for their spiritual or religious needs. I'm not at all religious and I love these guys. SMs should also be able to attend mass, synagogue, and whatever else is available, led by their Chaplains. Whatever isn't supported by the Chaplaincy (we can't have Chaplains for the thousands of religions that exist) should be sought elsewhere - the Chaplains I knew would go out of their way to try to accommodate everyone.

I used to hate, but don't really mind as much anymore, the benediction/mandatory-prayer-time present in most ceremonies. I don't feel they should be forced on anyone or part of the military culture, but I do understand that many people are religious to some degree and so I go along with it and give that respect to others and their beliefs. Heck, sometimes I even use that time for reflection, which is in the same vein as prayer albeit different. It bothers me when I have to listen to people thanking God during their promotion, or other, ceremonies, but that is totally okay because it is their day to thank those that helped them get there and they should be able to voice their religious beliefs in those situations, whether I believe the same or not. As I said before, clear limits are essential.

This is 2015 - not the 50's where "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance or "In God We Trust" was added to all currency due to the red scare. Tolerance is key, not the removal of religion, as Sgt Matthew Johnson put it in the top post.

Ultimately, I believe religion has a proper place - in one's personal life. I love learning about others' religious beliefs and practices, just don't thrust them upon me or preach to me. The only thing that legitimately angers me is the small minority who spew their religious fervor in an incredibly ignorant way, as if to combat/shield against logic or rational thought. Those are the ones that tend to be the most bigoted or racist.

Response by SPC Nicholas Cureton made Feb 11 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-02-11T21:45:42-05:00

I have never been in a firefight I didn't thank God for surviving. Whether people admit to it or not, a harrowing experience brings to mind the fragility of our being.

Response by Sgt Brandon Bunch made Feb 11 at 2015 9:56 PM

2015-02-11T21:56:32-05:00

How could it not? In the darkest of hours I saw my Marines believe in God for the first time!

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Feb 12 at 2015 6:01 AM

2015-02-12T06:01:00-05:00

Never even crossed my mind while I was in. For the most part Marines are Marines no matter their religion. Yeah, a few bad apples slip through, but the majority of us live the Marine ethos of having each other's backs regardless of what that Marine's beliefs, lifestyle, etc. are. I know that sounds like a lot of hype, and maybe in some units it is. But with my guys we didn't care whir what you were, you were out brother or sister Marine and that's what mattered.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2015 9:21 AM

2015-02-12T09:21:40-05:00

Absolutely it does. Without my faith I am a different man and a different leader. I would be less compassionate and be like many in society and only looking out for myself, out to get mine. I mean I am entitled to it right?

Saying there is no room for religion in the military is like saying there is no room for religion in schools. Look how well that turned out. If we keep pushing God out of our society we will have a godless society and things will be worse.

I am not saying we all become missionaries and thump the Bible on people until they believe. I am saying let me practice and exercise my freedom of religion that is defined so nicely in the Constitution in the Bill of Rights. That I really am entitled to thanks to those who fought before me and that is why I am here to continue to preserve these rights for future generations of Americans. If you want to give up your rights that is on you, but do not try to give up everyone else's rights in doing so.

Response by MSG Judith Schiavone Ramirez (Bemis) made Feb 12 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-02-12T11:54:07-05:00

If it brings comfort to those that want it, leave it alone. It's a choice to be atheist. It's not a matter of church and state or 'religion' in the military. You don't have to use a deity to enlist or reenlist, if it makes individuals feel better to have chaplains nearby, so be it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2015 12:58 PM

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Faith or lack thereof is a personal thing. While we all have our own distinct and personal perspectives, we should respect others so long as it does not impede the mission or the good order of the service. The only time it would become an issue if it is used a way to evaluate someone who is of a different faith, but we have EEO representatives to take care of such an incident.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Feb 12 at 2015 1:31 PM

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SGT Alex Alt - Have you ever visited Washington, D.C.? Almost every building has inscriptions from the Christian bible. Did you ever study American history? Ever read the writings of the founding fathers? Why did the first settlers come to this new world? Because they had nothing better to do on a Saturday? They risked their lives, many of them dying, for what? No one is saying you have to be a certain religion to live in America, well maybe some radical groups would want that but we have our Constitution for preventing it. Were you or anyone else ever told you could not believe what you want? No where else in the world would a country tolerate religious freedom the way it is in America.

You feel like you didn't belong because you are an atheist some the rest of the world should change to suit you? Well I feel I don't belong in the work place because everyone else where I work is so much younger than me so I want them all fired and old people can take their place. You hear how ridiculous my demand sounds? It is I who must adjust and be tolerant to others around me. I cannot get over people like yourself those riding in cars with the "Coexist" bumper stickers. You want to "Coexist" as long as no one disagrees with you.

Religion will always play a part in the military and any and all country's military. When you are in harms way getting shot at or bombed you will either be praying to someone or something or more than likely using God's name in vain. Something I respect very much about Muslims you will never hear a Muslim use Allah in vain.

Sgt Matthew Johnson - My Marine brother, I agree with you have written. I think what you have written is very well thought out and done with a kind and understanding heart.

However I think you and many young Americans today have been mislead on our history, and our Constitution. No where in the Constitution will you find separation of church and state. It is something that has been created by those who want to mislead and destroy. Hitler once said (I'm paraphrasing) "If you tell a lie loud enough often enough and long enough it will become the truth".

The First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". If we read the first 10 words and think about their meaning we understand the the government cannot establish a religion. Why would the founding fathers write that in the Constitution? It was because the King of England was the head of the state church therefore he controlled the government and religion. You had to believe what he said then pay him for saying it. Now the next 6 words protect our rights to believe whatever we want. It does not say "prohibit the free exercise of YOU FILL IN THE BLANK" Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam or any other isim. So now we see the 1st Amendment was written to protect religion from government not the other way around.

Congress open every session with prayer but don't let them catch your kids praying in school.

Amen and Ooh Rah!

Response by SGT Michael Ryan made Feb 13 at 2015 5:54 AM

2015-02-13T05:54:52-05:00

You apparently don't get it fool.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Feb 13 at 2015 9:26 AM

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I served honorably for 26 years, while not a deeply religious person, I have served with those that are and have served with those like the OP that are Atheist. I can never remember a time during my career where religion impacted or interfered with mission readiness or accomplishment. I have seen units bend over backwards to ensure that the religious needs of everyone of it's members were tended to as best they could without having a negative impact on the mission. Are there individuals that maybe express their religious views too openly, yes there are, however I feel that the military overall and the Army more specifically has done an overall good job of ensuring that this is the exception and not the norm. To the OP, I am sorry that you feel that one of your commander's personal religious views to impact you so negatively, but I can assure you that your Soldiers will not care what your views are, they only care that you train them properly and care for their needs and those of their family's.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Feb 13 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-02-13T09:29:40-05:00

Forcing a particular religion on anyone should never happen nor should there be repercussions on those who do or do not believe in a particular God. I remember hearing something a while back of people getting in trouble for not saying "So help me God" during their swearing in. I myself am a Christian and am fine with saying it but I do think that people should be able to swear to their own individual God or just remain silent during that part if they do not believe in any.

As far as Chaplains go, it is my understanding that even though they have their particular faith that they represent, they are supposed to accommodate to anyone of any faith with out discriminating. I know that if I was struggling with something and needed someone to talk to I will still have the trust to speak with a Chaplain whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Sith or whatever else they follow because they all serve the same purpose which is to help you.

If people in your unit are making you uncomfortable due to you being an atheist then that is something you should bring up to the chain of command to correct as we all agree to not discriminate based on anyone's religious preference or lack there of. If the chain of command is no help then there are plenty of other resources to correct the action.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 7:50 AM

2015-02-14T07:50:16-05:00

As a chaplain assistant I advise that you go talk to your chaplain personally instead for a direct answer instead of asking on the internet for abroad answers. If you do not know your chaplain I suggest you just sit down and talk with him. He or she is not a just a pastoral counselor because we must administer to people of all faiths. Also there is a place On your post called the Religious Support Office . They definitely would have a lot of answers for you SGT. If your ever on a Fort Bragg you can look me up SGT. I'll be glad to assist you Because My Chaplain and I love all Soldiers with out anytype of discrimination. However if you continue to hear people talking about you I advise you to use your 1st steps in the EO AND SHARP manual and CONFRONT them face to face and then report them to your chain of command.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 9:45 AM

2015-02-14T09:45:10-05:00

SGT, first America was not founded as a secular nation, it was founded as a nation where the government could not interfere with an individuals free exercise of their religion. Second, your statement that religion has no place in our government is wrong as well, when the POTUS is sworn in, what is his right hand on? How does a religious practice interfere with mission readiness? For the faithful, a prayer to their deity often will strengthen their resolve prior to a mission. Would you tell a Soldier with marital problems they can't go to a marriage counselor, or tell a Soldier they can't go to behavioral health if they are having other issues? For the faithful, a trip to the Chaplain may be more beneficial for them then a trip to BH, which then improves readiness. As to open the Chaplaincy to Atheist, will they be able to minister to someone with a belief in a diety? At least a Chaplain from another faith can minister to me on a basis of a shared belief in a diety. If we remove religion, should we then remove politics and make service members ineligible to vote? You lead Soldiers by gaining their respect, holding them to the same standard and attending to their needs. To deny a faithful Soldier's ability to tend to their sprititual needs because you don't have that need is akin to not allowing them to go to dental sickcall because you don't have a toothache. Certainly, religion and politics should not be discussed in the work place but if you have Soldiers standing by for a detail, whats the difference between one sitting back and playing angry birds on their phone or one reading their holy book? But we tend to tell the one that is reading their holy book in the corner that they are offending someone by the mere act of reading because it is a religious book or to tell someone who keeps their holy book near them in the work place that it is offensive but it's ok for the Soldier with the Tom Clancy book to have their book near.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 5:04 PM

2015-02-14T17:04:55-05:00

And by religion I mean 'Christianity'. Not only should it be mandated but it should be 'Do ask, do tell'. I just hope President Clinton can allow us to use DADT.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-02-14T20:02:02-05:00

I believe that the military should do everything possible to foster and support the spiritual lives of individual soldiers, however religion should play no role in any function where attendance is not completely voluntary.

Response by PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) made Feb 15 at 2015 10:56 AM

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I have meet several atheists over my years, including my Naval career. I always tried to talk to them to get an understanding about who they are and why they think the way they do. I'm a Christian, but I never put my beliefs on the table, until several atheists were telling me that they don't believe in Heaven and Hell, but do believe there is a higher power over everything. That's when I would argue whether or not they were truly atheist. It lead to some interesting conversations.
But here's the thing, just because you choose not to believe doesn't mean you have the right to force others who do believe not to have their time to worship! Someone mentioned that we aren't truly Christian if we don't take time to worship, but I argue that as a Christian, if my unit is involved in a fire fight I'm not going to call a time out on Sunday so I can read my bible! I guarantee ISIS and the Taliban weren't either!

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Feb 15 at 2015 2:24 PM

2015-02-15T14:24:20-05:00

I say yes. If you are religious then this is definitely the place for it.

It's a stressful environment and deals with death. One needs a way to cope.

Again, for those who don't know me, it still should be optional.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Feb 17 at 2015 8:26 PM

2015-02-17T20:26:34-05:00

Society is reflected within the ranks of the Military, you have people from all walks of life, all religions are represented, to include atheists, and agnostics and Wicca. So, even more so, Religion will and always play a role within the military, because of those people who follow a religion

Response by Cpl Robert Clark made Feb 25 at 2015 2:33 PM

2015-02-25T14:33:39-05:00

I'm confused. what founding father or signer of the "living document" told you it was a "living document?"

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Feb 25 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-02-25T14:37:55-05:00

Yes, for those who desire it.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 25 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-02-25T14:49:41-05:00

It definitely does. In the personal home, bed, cot, sleeping bag, or room of the individual soldier or in an optional group gathering.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 11:25 AM

2015-03-05T11:25:25-05:00

There are no vegans in Ethiopia and no atheists in a Fox hole!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 2:25 AM

2015-03-11T02:25:23-04:00

While I don't believe that religion should play a role in the military; if religion plays a role in your personal life... Awesome. I encourage you to love and follow your personal choice of religion or non-religion in a peaceful, tolerant, and respectful manner.

Just understand that not everyone should/will have the same viewpoints nor does anyone have to be a part of it or believe it. =) The true meaning of "Coexist".

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 2:06 AM

2015-03-13T02:06:38-04:00

I think that as long as you have confidence in your team and they are not proselytizing, you should drink water and rub some dirt on it.

It was your choice to debate religion with your commander. You could have said, "Sir, I don't want to have this discussion with you - it makes me feel weird."

Don't get me wrong - I'm am atheist. I just don't think religion has any place being discussed in the workplace (particularly our workplace). I understand that you might be offended by their beliefs, but maybe you should check why you were offended, as well as why you now feel like you don't belong. It's not that you should hide your non-belief - it's just that it's your business and nobody else's.

Response by SPC D W made Mar 16 at 2015 6:04 AM

2015-03-16T06:04:25-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member:

There are a couple short points I want to remind you of, facts you appear to be missing or confused about.

1) monopoly on truth and morality.

Now, are you claiming a monopoly on truth that America was established secular? ("nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof" comes to mind, along with "endowed by their Creator")

Do you believe that every religious belief is false? That is itself claiming a monopoly on truth.

Are you claiming absolutely that 2+2=4 and doesn't equal anything else? I mean, you don't want to claim a monopoly on truth, right?

2) the hatred of those who don't proselytize.

Welcome atheist Penn Jillette, and his complete lack of respect for those who DON'T proselytize.

A Gift Of A Bible: https://youtu.be/6md638smQd8

3) most horrendous acts in history.

Actually, it's atheists, and specifically Jesus-mythers, who have committed the worst atrocities in history.

Professor R.J. Rummel is professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii and talks on how "free thinkers"/atheists have caused the most harm in all history of any ideology (doing the math from the research on his site shows that atheism has been involved in killing ~30 times more than all religions in all history, even counting ALL the most absurd and falsest ones, COMBINED).
----
Q: Haven’t established religions been the greatest killers?*
A: Most contemporary democide, far greater than any historical cases, has been by free thinkers, i.e., those who believe that the established religions are superstitions, and one should be scientific, objective, rational, etc. Communism is a case in point, where out of the 174,000,000 murder 1900 to 1999, about 110,000,000 were by communists, who are professed atheists.

Q: Do you feel that countries with a secular government generally have a better way of life compared to countries ruled by religion?
A: Historically, secular governments have also been very repressive and murderous. All communist and fascist governments (Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc) have been secular, and also murderous. The worst of all such governments have been atheistic and communist, and murdered overall around 110,000,000 people in the 20th Century.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/QA.V2.HTML

4) overly PC

I would remind you of George Orwell, 1984. The politically correct movement is nothing more than newspeak and doublethink. Be careful that you don't fall into the same bigoted trap you accuse Christians of.

5) atrocities

So, I'm assuming you think William Wilberforce, SGT Alvin York, William Booth, Operation Mercy Ships all committed horrible atrocities as a result of their religious beliefs, yes?

What a bleak outlook on life. And quite anti-factual, anti-historical.

Let me leave you with this final question: what makes you think your religious beliefs of atheism (after all, you are trying to impact the religious practices of others with your beliefs right now) are right? And, please, don't hold a monopoly of truth from the rest of us. Share why you are right, and everyone else is wrong. After all, if you were wrong, and they were right, you wouldn't be telling everyone to reject truth, no?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 6:43 AM

2015-03-16T06:43:24-04:00

It's obvious you take a very dim view of religion and likely a left wing view of politics as well. I personally value Chaplains of all denominations. While Christian Chaplains are the most common, I've seen everything from Jewish to Buddhist Chaplains within our ranks. I'm not sure which religion you find to be underrepresented, but I wouldn't have an issue with commissioning a Norse Pagan or other uncommon religion if the individual wanted to fill the role. A line would need to be drawn with religions that actively promote violence or evil, but that should be common sense.

I'm not sure what an Atheist "Chaplain" would accomplish, since religious services are only a part of the duties of a Chaplain. Any Chaplain worth their salt will be there for every Soldier in the formation, regardless of affiliation. You being unwilling to engage them due to their religion is your problem, not the Chaplain's.

Ultimately this is where I think the flaw in your argument is: Chaplains have been around since the beginning of the Continental Army. If religion within our ranks is so antithetical to what our founding fathers intended for this country don't you think they would have eliminated Chaplains then?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-03-16T14:51:51-04:00

Religion is important to some and those individuals should be allowed to celebrate their religion and have their own feelings. I have issues with being prostelized to at every major function. Your desire to believe and my willingness to appreciate your beliefs does not mean I should be forced to have to accept it for myself. Live and let live.

Response by SGT Justin Fischer made Mar 16 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-03-16T15:16:21-04:00

Religion is a personal thing, but I think it's important for the military to provide religious support for those that desire it. I am a distinct faith group leader at Fort Gordon, providing religious services and education for pagan/heathen service members and their families. I love that the military has a means to provide for religions without established chaplains. We also have a Jewish and a Muslim DFGL here.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-03-16T15:24:52-04:00

Should religion play a role in the military? No. Should religion be freely practices by military members IF THEY CHOOSE? Absolutely. It's a 1st Amendment right under the Constitution. Restricting it has no benefit towards mission accomplishment or good order and discipline. Let's not confuse having a role with being practiced.

I get why we, as service members, don't have complete Freedoms of Speech and Expression. I can't get in front of my Airmen and say the President and our Commander are worthless, stupid, traitors, etc. That is foul and destroys the credibility of the entire chain of command. If I did this, I fully expect to get backhanded by the UCMJ.

Religion, however - nah. If I were practicing, I shouldn't be afraid to tell people that I was practicing. HOWEVER - I should be MAKING people attend church with me or believe what I believe. I get it...it happens and it's wrong and we need to put a stop to that nonsense. You won't necessarily put a stop to it by saying "you can't do anything or say anything that has anything to do with religion at all, ever". That is a severe unlawful order. The freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution can't be completely removed just because we want to add more value to "separation of church and state" than was intended.

It all boils down to tolerance. Again, I am a non-practicing Christian. I believe in God and Jesus...but I haven't been to church in forever and haven't read a bible in longer than that. I don't mind Atheists or Muslims or Jews or Pagans. If someone said to me "Blessed Ramadan" - I'd THANK THEM. They respect and care enough about me to wish a blessing from what they believe upon me. I think that is great. Why people get offended by it - it amazes me. If I, as a Christian, wish someone a Merry Christmas or I say "God bless you" - I am not attacking you, I am not trying to convert you, I am not saying in code that "You must go to Catholic church with me or I will deny your promotion chances!". I am wishing good tidings and respect upon you based on my beliefs.

Atheists - I respect you. You don't believe and that's fine. I am a Christian and I in no way care to attempt to put Jesus into your life. I don't look down on you, I don't distrust you, and I certainly am not going to threaten you. However, if you overhear me talking about religion or if I say "Merry Christmas" - don't jump down my throat. Take it for what it is REALLY meant to be and at the very least just say thank you if not wish me one back. It's called respect. This is what true tolerance is all about.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-03-16T15:42:30-04:00

Uh.... I'm going to write this and waste my breath because it seems you have your mind made up all ready as a practicing "Atheist." Which in itself is not an organized religion and which you probably do not hear much complaining about. (as for people talking about you in the hallway, half the time, that's just paranoia.)

1. SHOW me where "Separation between Church and State" is (Because it doesn't EXIST) in the Constitution, please.

2. I would like to understand how you think "Faith" would prohibit someone from doing their job...

3. Do you not believe in Faith???

They always say there is not a atheist in a foxhole, but you'd disagree. As long as you don't complain, whine, try to prevent me from my practice, and I'm SURE they don't MAKE you go to church, then there should be no reason for complaint. You all (us vets included) fight to practice whatever you want. Don't take it away from them because you disagree.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-03-16T19:21:50-04:00

My only gripe about religion in the military is how unfair the treatment is to believers. This is what I mean. At the schoolhouse, we must accommodate our Muslim ally students (Iraqi, Saudi Arabia, etc) the right to pray and ensure they have the time and place to do so. I'm ok with that; however, we as Christians are not allowed to discuss God or our beliefs unless we walk on the line very tightly. I've been in many situations like that but I talked about my beliefs but what we all need to understand is how we represent ourselves and talk about it.

In the past, a friend from college approached me but in away that I didn't appreciate. That turned me against Christians and God. I thought they (Christians and other believers) that they always made themselves better than me. Well, I can say after 20 years I forgave that person and now understand what he was trying to say.

I don't if this makes sense but more and more religion and God is being taken out of places that shouldn't be; however, we are fully accommodating other religions like it is ok. It doesn't seem fair. Wow...our money has In God We Trust on it. So please, need to go back to our roots and stop being so anti-Christian/anti-God.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 10:07 AM

2015-03-17T10:07:18-04:00

The old saying goes "There's no atheist in a foxhole"

When I was in Afghanistan, the chaplain would always have a voluntary prayer circle before every mission. I would venture to guess that 90% of the Marines and Corpsman would be huddled around praying.

Those who didn't join in never complained that we had these prayer circles.

Response by PO2 Christopher McClintic made Mar 17 at 2015 8:53 PM

2015-03-17T20:53:53-04:00

I agree with to to some degree. First let me say, I am a devout Christian. When I served, I served with many different religions, one of my best friends, whom I work security with, is an athiest, and we would have discussions about this topic quite a bit. You are correct, the constitution does specify that the government cannot control religion or have a state religion, but with that being said, the government cannot completely discard religion either. Believe it or not, atheism is a religion itself. By definition, religion is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause,nature, and purpose of the universe,especially when considered as the creationof a superhuman agency or agencies,usually involving devotional and ritualobservances, and often containing a moralcode governing the conduct of humanaffairs." Atheism is just a group of people who believe that religion, or God, does not exist, if I remember correctly. So if the military got rid of religion, they would in fact be making a state religion.
Now, as for people looking down on you for being an athiest, I have yet to find or learn about a religion that teaches their member to look down on those who are not part of their religion. If they are looking down their noses at you for what you believe, and not embracing you, they are in the wrong and their God will judge them for it, as I understand my faith and others that I have learned about.

Response by PFC Rebecca Robertson made Mar 18 at 2015 12:21 AM

2015-03-18T00:21:02-04:00

i think that no matter your religion it should be allowed as well as accepted. i also feel it should be encouraged more to see the chaplin.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 19 at 2015 9:18 AM

2015-03-19T09:18:01-04:00

I don't force my beliefs on anyone. You ask we can have a DISCUSSION on it. If there is prayer tell me how this is a bad thing. My squad leader is a PAGAN. I still respect him in his beliefs and is achievements in the military. He is a SSG and a good person. He has had several combat(hand to hand) missions in the early years of the war. He is a good leader. Does that effect my role as a team leader to follow his orders me being a christian. No. I look at him as a military leader. I don't agree with his religious views. He doesn't agree with mine. We have a job to do and we get it done. There is no animosity between us. I pray and do my job. Why is it that people want to take away my rights because you think that it is fringing on YOURS. The fact that we where built on the a fore mentioned belief then why is it so hard to let everyone worship the way they believe. I the Chaplin comes by and wants to pray with any believer then how does that effect you, in any way. You mentioned that it effects mission readiness, how is that. every time we held prayer on previous deployments it was in enough time to do PCC's, PCI's and PMCS before the mission. So there for your point is mute!

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Mar 19 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-03-19T10:14:45-04:00

I'm not voting because I don't agree with any of the choices.

The whole reason for chaplains is accommodation of religion; allowing those with religious beliefs to not have their ability to follow those beliefs to be impeded by their service. Another accommodation is for local churches to partner with bases to provide opportunities for service members whose faith is not covered by their local Chaplin i. e. Mormons, Hindus and others. Accommodating service members with religious affiliation is not the same thing as establishing a religion. Creating a religion free military would be infringing on the rights of service members constitutional right to freedom of religious belief and affiliation.

Religious freedom also includes your right to have no religious belief. The people of faith around you likely consider you missing out on something that gives them great guidance and comfort. Don't mistake intolerance for concern unless it truly is an intolerant attitude. In that case, you have a right to complain and get it dealt with.

As long as there are people in the serivces and we have a constitution, there should be freedom of religion in the services.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Mar 19 at 2015 2:10 PM

2015-03-19T14:10:37-04:00

I voted no on this, because there was not a fourth option for NOT in its current form.

Religion is a deeply personal issue. The military should take no role in a person's spiritual path regardless of what that may be. The Chaplain Corps is ineffective as it is. If you are go to see a Chaplain, you get the duty Chaplain. If you are lucky, the Duty Chaplain is of your beliefs. If not, you have a person who is trying to help you, but does not have the tools to do so.
You could not send an infantry man into battle with an M-16 and .9mm rounds with a reasonable expectation of success. Nor can you send a Jewish Chaplain to assist a Muslim with a problem and have similar expectations. It is not fair to the service members or to the Chaplain.
In the movie "The Tuskeegee Airmen," there is a line about handing someone a fixed deck, and then asking why they can't win. It is the same thing with the Chaplain Corps. The problem is that there are too many different religions. None is more valid than any other, but the military does not, and cannot from a logistical aspect provide religious guidance to them all.
The system needs to be changed. There either needs to be no Chaplain Corps, or a Chaplain Corps that caters to the needs of all service members. Unfortunately neither one of those is possible.
The most feasible solution would be to have a spiritual hall with no religious symbology on it that groups of like minded service members could use for their spiritual growth. As for the Chaplain Corps itself, the process for becoming a military chaplain needs to be re-evaluated. Additionally, if the military cannot provide a chaplain for each religious group, they should invite clergy from those religions that they cannot provide for to come and assist those of their faith.
If it is a true spiritual leader, they will jump at the opportunity to help our service men and women. I know I would endure any background check, paperwork, and red tape if it meant providing for the needs of those who fight for our freedoms.

Sorry for the rant.

Response by PO1 Henry Sherrill made Mar 19 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-03-19T15:46:11-04:00

There is an old saying. There are no Atheist in foxholes, Especially when heavy artillery is inbound.

Response by CPL Jesse Vasconcelos made Mar 19 at 2015 9:56 PM

2015-03-19T21:56:16-04:00

Absolutely. Faith keeps us going and hope up which allows a better troop as having a higher power allows troops to have someone to be there for them in a time of extremely tuff situations.

Response by PFC Chris Hemingway made Mar 20 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-03-20T15:10:08-04:00

Here's my problem with the whole situation as a follower of a pagan religion I was discriminated by my highly catholic nco who even had a chaplain bless our small arms repair shop. I didn't mind that however the nco in question on more then one occasion made it his duty to try to convert the "heathen". I went to eo and up the chain of command multiple times they'd lecture him in front of me and then two days later he was back at it. One day I lost my temper and asked to speak freely which he granted. I told him to take his religion and shove it. I know it was wrong however the next day I received an article 15 for disrespect. Honestly religion does have its place but when others are not respected for their religions we become as bad as the extremist Arabs. Also I don't believe many Christians realize how much they discriminate until they are discriminated against.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Mar 20 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-03-20T15:13:39-04:00

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Mar 20 at 2015 4:01 PM

2015-03-20T16:01:18-04:00

I never saw religion as a big part of the military, its a big part of the person and the military provides religious leaders of various faiths to provides the religious services to service members. I have had people make fun of me over my years of service for attending Catholic mass, I have seen people all of a sudden get religious after 9/11. Its up the person and I think that the military does a great job of supporting those with religious needs with the restrictions that can come with your service location, such as a ship underway, its almost impossible to have a Kosher kitchen for the Jewish service members but I have seen them be accommodated on special occasions with being allowed to prepare certain items for their celebrations. So I say leave it alone, there will always be people in need or not in need of it and no one forces anyone to attend a service of any type.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 20 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-03-20T23:21:15-04:00

Oh no, not again. Someone needs to research "Separation of Church and State" because there's no violation.

Response by SSG Gary Shorts made Mar 20 at 2015 11:46 PM

2015-03-20T23:46:47-04:00

Sparenly, but yes, lol!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2015 12:11 AM

2015-03-21T00:11:18-04:00

I chose "Religion should play no role in the military". I have pasted this response several times in the last few days. What I mean by that is explained below. Very "popular" topic.

I am rather indifferent about people's personal religion choice, but I feel that attitudes, policies, leadership philosophies, laws, regulations, mission statements, etc. that cannot stand on their own without reference to god(s) have no place outside of the individual's home.

Basically, if it affects anyone outside of your immediate family, religion and/or your religious beliefs should not be part of it and shouldn't be mentioned.

I have no issues if your religious beliefs helped you get to your point of view, but if you cannot translate that into leadership philosophy, policy, mission statement, regulation, etc. without reference to that religion, it's not a valid standard to expect anyone besides yourself to follow.

The ONLY exception to this is if your job is literally religion related (Chaplain, church grounds-keeper, Rabbi, etc.).

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2015 2:14 AM

2015-03-21T02:14:02-04:00

Keep it the way it is, there are services available if you choose to seek them out. This is the optimal balance. We are not preaching but we can find services if desired in most circumstances other than combat (which is understandable).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2015 8:58 AM

2015-03-21T08:58:18-04:00

Religion is a choice. It should never be forced, nor should it play a factor in a SM's career. If you choose to be religious, then kudos. If not, cool.

Personally, I am not religious. However, when doing a Change of Command/Change of Responsibility, I bow my head to maintain uniformity. I don't pray, but I go through the motions, and I am not in any way offended by it.

I don't see why it is a big deal to keep religion in the Military. As I said before, if people complain, I think it is because they can, not because they are really offended by anything.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2015 5:21 PM

2015-03-22T17:21:29-04:00

In essence what you are saying is to take away the 1st amendment constitutional right of freedom of religion from the very defenders of the constitution. Makes a lot of sense....said one ever.
You have a right to believe in whatever you wish to believe in. The problem is when you don't want others to believe in their faiths in order to make you feel comfortable with your decisions.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Mar 23 at 2015 3:32 AM

2015-03-23T03:32:42-04:00

There are two answers to this. Religion should have absolutely no role in the military as an organization (I find religion to be encouraged by many a CO, which is grossly unacceptable and a violation of the constitution). However, its members should feel free to practice their religion, so long as it remains a personal experience, with reasonable attempts made to accommodate one's religion so long as it doesn't interfere with unit cohesion, moral, or mission.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 7:38 AM

2015-03-23T07:38:14-04:00

I chose, "This is not an issue." The chaplain is the only person in the military that has a water-tight clause preventing them from saying anything you tell them to anybody. Don't believe me? Try it! You can't tell the doctor or therapist you're going to kill someone, or even yourself. They still have to inform the authorities and your chain of command. The Chaplain is the only person that you can confess to grievous bodily harm, and they have to keep quiet. It helps a lot of people that are seeking/crying out for help, but don't want to be kicked out for being depressed or hurting inside.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 9:15 AM

2015-03-23T09:15:32-04:00

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Mar 23 at 2015 9:35 AM

2015-03-23T09:35:59-04:00

First off. This Nation was not founded as a secular Nation. It was founded under God our Creator. Our Founding Fathers wanted God in the government. People used Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danville Baptist Church for their Separation of Church and State rants. They misinterpreted his original letter. Thomas Jefferson's letter was about the Government being separate from Religion, but He wanted God in the Government.

Response by TSgt Tim Walker made Mar 23 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-03-23T11:54:24-04:00

This shouldn't even be a question. I thank God for allowing me to live every day. Some don't get the chance.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Mar 23 at 2015 3:28 PM

2015-03-23T15:28:49-04:00

SGT Alex A., I am not a religious person, but I can understand how comforting it is for someone in combat to believe that when they die they will have everlasting life in a better place; peace of mind enhances the effectiveness of soldiers; so I think religion in the military for those who want it is a good thing. If you don't want to believe, no one is forcing you to. If you feel uncomfortable because those around you are religious, well, that sounds like a personal problem to me; just because you feel uncomfortable doesn't mean someone has done something to make you feel that way. You should work on getting over your intolerance and try to see people as more than just their religion just as those who are religious keep getting told they need to be more tolerant toward gays, transgenders, atheists, etc.

Response by Cpl Daniel Mercer made Mar 23 at 2015 8:29 PM

2015-03-23T20:29:52-04:00

In every military in history warriors always fought in the name of their God they worshipped. For most it was an integral part of who they were/are as a warrior.

Response by SSG Bill M made Mar 25 at 2015 12:05 PM

2015-03-25T12:05:53-04:00

It was wrong of both you and that CO to talk about religion while on duty. As a wise person once said, "Never talk about politics, money, and religion in social environments that don't warrant such conversations." The military is filled with people of all different beliefs, races, political affiliations, and economic backgrounds. I feel that anyone who wishes to worship or not should have that ability. It should NEVER become an issue of contention between family. After all, the military is one big family- disfunctional, but still family.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 12 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-04-12T18:12:23-04:00

Religion plays an important role in the armed svcs. No question.

Response by SFC Charles S. made Apr 12 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-04-12T20:13:06-04:00

Religion is a big issue, I don't believe that it should be forced on anyone who doesn't want it but I do believe that it should be protected and remain as an option to be available to all who seek it.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Apr 14 at 2015 9:18 PM

2015-04-14T21:18:26-04:00

Religion is there for anyone and there are religious leaders of almost every faith available to service members.
I remember just before taps onboard ship they had the evening prayer over the 1MC, even those who didn't follow religion were respectfully quiet during the few minutes it took.
I think for those who follow religion its good to have it available and for those that don't, they don't seem too bothered by it, or at least that's what I have observed.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-10-09T10:44:07-04:00

This particular poster can be offensive to Roman Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, and Protestants. All of these are denominations of Christianity, not separate religions...They're *all* Christians. There are too many who are quick to denounce many of these as not Christian.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Oct 9 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-10-09T11:08:27-04:00

Jefferson needs to come back and lecture us on the "wall of separation between church and state."

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Oct 16 at 2015 1:05 PM

2015-10-16T13:05:38-04:00

There are many ways to God, but as a Christian you must Believe in the Father and the Son. Churches sometimes worship Religious Covenant, that doing the will of man made covenants rather then God, for example: If your Pastor preaches or teaches without his Bible, and don't encourage you to bring your Bible to follow along on what's being preached or taught, you are trusting him at his word, Not the Word of God. Never believe a Pastor's word, unless its backed up by Scriptures of the Bible. Remember always, what Jim Jones done to his congregation in Guyana. I remember serving with a atheist on the way to Vietnam., the closer we got to Vietnam, as a Fire Team Leader, the Marine stated "to me, no way no how that he were going to fire his weapon against a foreign enemy that had done nothing to him, he freaked out everyone on the team, I passed this information to the Gunnery Sergeant, the Gunnery Sergeant relayed this information to the CO., the information got back to me, to tell that Marine, that as soon as the shooting started if he didn't fire that weapon, the whole fire team were to start firing upon him, and I could say we had no further problems.

Response by SPC Joshua Heath made Nov 19 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-11-19T12:00:58-05:00

There are actually more than 98 different religions present in the US Military. We are still actively working to get our religious preference recognized by the DoD.

In general, I am a huge fan of the pluralism in our country, and in our military. I will gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone willing to serve our country honorably. Regardless of faith, we should all have a dedication to the mission and protecting and supporting our fellows.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/05/24/thor-asatru-humanism-hammer/27598169/

After 6 years, Heathenism religious code still in limbo

A six-year quest by multiple soldiers to add Heathenism to the Army's list of faith group codes appeared to wrap up in January, with word from a

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 19 at 2015 12:17 PM

2015-11-19T12:17:06-05:00

It is extremely diverse, if you think that 93 different denomination or branches of Christianity, of the 98 'different' religions, are really extreme or diverse.
I have never seen animosity over religion in the service, but I am sure it could happen?
In truth, I am not sure where any of those I served with really were as far as the break down presented would be? I think, but do not know, that most were Christian, of one denomination of branch, a couple were Jewish and some were Atheist...or at least Agnostic. The few who I did not trust, I do not know what there faith was and the reason I did not trust them was because of the character and not their faith, but faith does play a role in a person's character.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 19 at 2015 12:34 PM

2015-11-19T12:34:26-05:00

Religion is a part of our Military history. Everyone has their right to believe In whom they desire to believe in but as I always say you want to start a huge debate or argument, bring up Religion or Politics the discussion will go on for days. Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech we should uphold.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 19 at 2015 8:57 PM

2015-11-19T20:57:39-05:00

The military has to remain secular. But now Obama and his administration have come down hard on Christians who don't toe the line.

Response by Cpl James Cassarino made Nov 30 at 2015 3:35 PM

2015-11-30T15:35:51-05:00

Religion is largely only an issue in the military when it's forced upon people. This is done in a variety of ways some religious or like minded individuals might not even notice. Stuff like forcing people to check in/out with the chaplain. Prayers said over the speakers for the entire ship. Religious invocations. Religious symbolism in units such as the Crusaders. This particular stuff in and of itself would be largely innocuous and easily brushed aside for all but the most thin skinned of individuals. But the more obtrusive stuff, like my chaplain insisting repeatedly that I put down a religion when filling out whatever form he forced to me to fill out to check in. The sometimes blatant proselytization and recruitment done on bases. Having the base chaplain at Camp Geiger shove his religions moral code (not the Marine Corps), down a room of captive marines throats. Forcing recruits to go to church as the only way to escape the DI's on Sundays. Forced prayer at virtually every ceremony. That's when religion becomes a problem in the military. I don't care what your personal belief system is, we all adhere to a singular organization for our conduct guidelines. The rest can be talked about candidly amongst willing participants but never forced upon those who have no choice but to follow orders. Follow that very simple guideline and you will annoy far less people and find that most believers and non believers alike can be very respectful when they feel like they are on even footing for once.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 9 at 2016 7:26 AM

2016-08-09T07:26:27-04:00

I have next to no issues with other religions. I will listen and comment, and I'll respect your beliefs, as long as it is returned in like fashion.

Response by Ken Kraetzer made Aug 9 at 2016 12:17 PM

2016-08-09T12:17:05-04:00

Interesting. We have a committee working on Chaplains Hill at Arlington National Cemetery. In 2011 we donated the Jewish Chaplains Monument honoring 14 veterans who died in service including Rabbi Goode one of the "Four Chaplains" who died on torpedoing of the Dorchester in 1943. Our two current projects are:

1. Replacement of aging Protestant Monument with new granite upright and bronze plaque which will add names of Protestant Chaplains who died in service in Korea, Vietnam and Cold War.
2. Donation of Interfaith "Going Forward" Monument honoring US military chaplains who have died in service since 9-11 of all faiths. This will be a footstone monument presented in front of four existing monuments with plaque presented at angle. This project may require Congressional approval, as did the 2011 Jewish Chaplains Monument, which received unanimous votes in House and Senate.

The next phase will be a walkway to ease access for all to the top of the steep 25 foot hill to ease access for all from scouts to "Honor Flights". We are seeking organizations and companies able to donate walkway materials and possible construction service.

Chaplains Hill in section 2 faces Eisenhower Drive beyond the arched McClellan Gate, the route taken by caissons to Section 60. We believe the Chaplains honored on the Hill provide a blessing to each military member and family member who passes by.

Designs are available on our Facebook page: Chaplains Hill, Arlington National Cemetery.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Jan 18 at 2018 9:58 AM

2018-01-18T09:58:02-05:00

Brigham Young, the second prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, once said (and I paraphrase), "Let them worship the yellow dog down the road so long as no harm is given to their neighbor."

Response by SSG K Johnson made Dec 3 at 2018 12:58 PM

2018-12-03T12:58:08-05:00

I was a Chaplain Assistant for most of my time in and I have found that as important as faith is, I saw Muslims Bleed for Catholics, Catholics fighting for protestants, and Atheists helping Baptists. Faith aside we are all on the same team.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Dec 22 at 2022 10:39 AM

2022-12-22T10:39:00-05:00

thanks for sharing

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Dec 22 at 2022 12:35 PM

2022-12-22T12:35:19-05:00

I believe that religion (and I mean all or lack thereof) is a personal choice and those people should be afforded the opportunites to worship, pray, display whatever they want in their private space (work station, desk ets) or base chapel. I believe that at a promotion ceremoney or a retirement ceremony the honoree should be able to pray or not based on their faith.

NOW...professionally at work I don't care what you believe or don't believe, has no bearing on what I or the unit needs from you. All I care about is when I am needing overwatch you have my back and I have yours...when you are injured I am not gonna say well, he is an atheist so he gets last priority for rescue...I am gonna come get you and I hope you would do the same for me. If you ask about my religion I will be glad to share it with you but I willnot force it on you. Hopefully my actions speak for themselves.

Response by Amn Dale Preisach made Dec 22 at 2022 1:07 PM

2022-12-22T13:07:12-05:00

No. Actions speak truth. Words are just vibrated air .

Response by Amn Dale Preisach made Dec 22 at 2022 2:04 PM

2022-12-22T14:04:01-05:00

It's a question that echos the What nationality are you?
A while back, we all said American.
Now everybody is an adlective American. That is, Italian American/ African American, German American... and most if us are several generations removed from the Country we identify as. Now most people deal with others superficially. That is to say, they group identify and broker no middle ground. Whether political or Religious, the wall themselves in with the group they identify as and don't want to discuss most anything with a person that isn't allied with their group.. i mean they only see things the group's way . Any other way is just crap. And those that vote differently are just crap too.
And they are in the military . Tell me now, how many people believe party over Country.
How many of us , yes i've done this too, are solely devoted to group-think?? These types of people Are not only in the military, and at all ranks, and they HATE the people from the opposing party. True Hate. They wish them dead and all.
Tell me will they defend against someone of there group that shoot up the populace due to opposing political beliefs... or would they let fheir member of the group escape?? What help would they give civilians in a Rally for the opposing view?? What the hell are they doing serving in a position of any type in a Military??

Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made Dec 22 at 2022 3:45 PM

2022-12-22T15:45:53-05:00

I never understood why one Christian religion called by a different name was/is called wrong by a group with a different name for it.