What role will automation play in the military drawdown?

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:59:56 -0500

I found this article very interesting. The authors maintain that some military functions now performed by people will soon (5-10 years max) be performed by robots and other automated devices. What are your thoughts on these developments?

http://theweek.com/article/index/273431

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Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 11:02 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:02:44 -0500

This has already started occurring in Field Artillery, the guys who used to do the weather analysis and send it to the FDC to use as METT Data have been replaced by a mechanical weather balloon.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 11:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:32:57 -0500

Bad plan all around. NEVER remove the human element. NEVER rely solely on technology.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Dec 14 at 2014 5:37 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 05:37:30 -0500

Thanks CW5 Private RallyPoint Member, I like being intrigued when I can't sleep. Nice article. I took it one step further to look at the Atlas Robot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkBnFPBV3f0. Pretty cool, though needs a little armor.

There are definitely places where automation is a good thing, especially where it takes SMs out of harm's way. SSG Private RallyPoint Member hits it right on the head, though I think we are, I'd venture to say a century, away from that level of thinking. Warfare is a human reaction and response and "Iron Man" mechanized mercenaries, "Star Wars" clone troopers and "Terminator" self-aware armies remove that element entirely.

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Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Dec 14 at 2014 10:52 AM

Cpl Dennis F. — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:52:54 -0500

Automation generally moves onto the scene too fast, before all of the assorted bugs and negative ramifications have been worked out. There are a few areas that automation should intrude on at a snails pace. I also believe that the bean counters will discover that it is cheaper in some cases to risk that bag of blood, rather than an over priced hardware system. There is precedent for this mindset in the auto recall industry.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 14 at 2014 2:23 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 14:23:36 -0500

I put other because automation is a good thing but you still need the human element. If we go to remove all human from all jobs well it will go to hell quick.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Dec 14 at 2014 6:09 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:09:07 -0500

I worked for 20 years with automated systems. The design work was exceptional and the longevity of the systems left nothing to be desired. Having worked as a designer in aerospace our machines were built (expensively) to the same standards as space craft with all top line components and hardware, aircraft aluminum and $5 fasteners. The quality astounded me. Most were built by Lockheed-Martin and I needed a security badge to train at their schools.

Now the horror story: One of our systems that operated throughout a very large building was managed by a computer in a central site. Real time detailed diagnostics were performed at this site. During its acceptance run ( a set time period that required it to perform to certain set of statistics or be removed and the vendor, an aerospace Co., not paid).

This was the set up: a tech with a radio was at the diagnostics site and immediately notified one of 12 techs stationed at logjam nexus around the system of a problem, that was instantly rectified. This system was to reduce staffing by six. Real world: The system was budgeted for 2 techs. and required endless overtime and was impossible to operate with this staffing to the required specs. To meet spec the system actually required and excess of higher level personnel to operate.....thus costing MORE to perform the same work previously performed manually.
Automation will eventually improve our lives, but the break even payoff period at present is far in the future.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 15 at 2014 1:46 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:46:51 -0500

It's always better to throw technology at an enemy rather than warm bodies. That being said, victory on the battlefield will never arrive unless it is the hands of an infantryman. I only hope that we can afford it.

Technology costs a lot. Hopefully, we can pay the price without sending our soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen to the poorhouse. We've already seen too many young service families living below poverty levels. We see them driven to near homelessness as politicians shift assets to illegal aliens. Our VFW post is sending toys for Marine tots while Marines are collecting Toys for (civilian) Tots, and donating diapers and other essentials to their families. Why can't we pay them a living wage? Why can't those deployed to battlefields half way around the world be free of concern for the well-being of the wives and children they leave behind?

Let's invest in the technology, but don't forget the people...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2014 1:46 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:46:12 -0500

Nothing is immune to downsizing, including automation programs.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 15 at 2014 1:57 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:57:29 -0500

What role will automation play in the military draw down? Eventually nearly all of them.

As CGP Grey points out, Robots don't have to so our jobs perfectly, they just have to do them better than we do, more consistently.
http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/humans-need-not-apply

But it's going to take some time, because the Infantry's task (and probably some others) is far too complex and generalized for AI on its own at this point. And something about killer-robots with no humans in the loop makes people uncomfortable, for now.

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Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Dec 15 at 2014 2:59 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:59:37 -0500

Technology in general and automation in particular can be either beneficial or detrimental depending on what is implemented and how. A few examples:
- Railroad in the Civil War provided strategic (but not tactical) mobility. Railroad itself, however, did not truly become beneficial for the Union until governance, process, and procedures were implemented to harness this new technology.
- Telegraph in the Civil War is another example. The ability to tactically and strategically communicate is limited without standard reporting formats, priority message traffic and other implementing factors (such as SALUTE report now).
- Typewriters to computers. Army used to have pools of secretaries to do admin work. No longer with computers. Computers are more effective/efficient but now senior leaders are sucked into doing admin type actions that secretaries used to take care of (think DTS and travel, typing memos, filling out forms, etc). Good example of where we cut too much.
- Way Ahead. There are some ways where automation can save money and lives. UAV is an example. Robotics for mine detection and "pack mule" operations is another. At the end of the day, however, there are some things that only humans can do such as interact with other humans within the human domain. These are areas which can not and should not be cut.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Dec 15 at 2014 2:59 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:59:56 -0500

I put a tiny portion of blame on losing my beloved Kiowas to the fascination with drone technology. I also want to put in a plug for all those brave aircrews. The Army is really giving them the shaft by cutting so many loose from the service due to the lack of transition slots. We are talking SERIOUS numbers folks.