What’s your opinion? Should unit standards supersede Army standards?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:08:07 -0500

We’ve all seen it. Unit says this but big Army says that. Which standard should be law and what would you do to correct unit standards that undermine the Army’s standards?

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 19 at 2017 5:11 PM

SPC David Willis — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:11:24 -0500

UCMJ or punitive action should be based off big army standards. I have no problem with advancement in rank or favorable actions being based off unit standards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2017 5:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:44:19 -0500

Honestly, I believe the Army as a whole is going H...... In a duffle bag.

Response by SFC Matthew Del Rossi made Dec 19 at 2017 5:46 PM

SFC Matthew Del Rossi — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:46:37 -0500

The Army standard is the standard. Unit standards cannot override that standard.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 19 at 2017 6:22 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 18:22:19 -0500

Ok In my day, the law was that the ARMY standard was the minimum, but that units could exceed that standard. Which is why 82nd,Rangers, SF, XVIIIABC standards almost always exceeded the Army's standards. Just passing isn't good enough when you are1st in the frying pan.

Response by CSM John Pepper made Dec 19 at 2017 8:58 PM

CSM John Pepper — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 20:58:46 -0500

Army Standard is law. Add to but never take away from. But remember, Regulations are "guidance".

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Dec 20 at 2017 10:38 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:38:19 -0500

A unit standard (Goal) should support, clarify or strengthen an Army standard. Generally you can incentivize reaching a unit standard but you wouldn't take adverse admin action against someone who fails to meet that standard. The Ranger Regiments standards are the one exception I can specifically remember as being an exception, those guys met the higher standard or were gone. (I was not a Ranger, just a support guy)
Like the old 18th Airborne Corps road march time standard was higher then the time standard in the FM for road marches. The Commander incentivized it by giving those who met the standard the rest of the day off and those who didn't had a standard duty day.
In all my years of service I never saw a Commander publish a unit standard or goal that "undermined" or did less then the Army standard.
I observed only one that tried to tie adverse admin actions to the standards and goals but in that case the standard and goal was rescinded and rewritten.
Command teams have access to the JAG and the IG who can provide input on "how to" achieve the commanders goal. Never ask those cats "Can I" ask them "How do I" and who's the Commander with Exception To Policy authority. Good staffing of these things help keep troops from getting hosed and Commanders from being embarrassed.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Dec 20 at 2017 3:54 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:54:07 -0500

An interesting question. I would say that the Army standard is kind of a baseline. No units can allow performance below this point, but units may have more stringent standards due to necessity. A 180 APFT might meet the Army standard, but an NCO in a combat arms unit needs to be pushing 270 or better. First the army's standards are for all, so a doctor at the hospital needs to meet that standard. I don't think that anyone would argue that the doctor's job requires as much physicality as an infantryman. Thus it would make sense that soldiers that meet, but don't exceed the Army standards are in the back of the line for promotion.