What should I do if I make on-the-spot corrections that land on deaf ears (leaders are included)?

2017-05-31T03:32:13-04:00

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2017 7:21 AM

2017-05-31T07:21:28-04:00

Some contextual information would be helpful, but I'm guessing what you're asking is this: What do you do if you make a correction, someone refuses to fix themselves, and their chain of command doesn't support you?

It's a tough situation without "top cover." I was in a similar position recently. I made an on the spot correction and an NCO outside my formation straight up blew me off. It wasn't "chickenshit" either. Said NCO was creating a safety issue and violating well known Army policies. Knowing what I do about his chain of command, his Commander would've likely told me to kick rocks. I elevated it to my BN XO instead, who said he'd handle it. Sometimes that's all you can do. I've also seen firsthand where a senior leader refused to discipline a Soldier based upon their ethnicity and gender. Essentially they were more worried about a potential EO complaint over good order and discipline. Those are the situations I write about in my green notebook, under "what I'm not going to do when I'm in charge."

At any rate it's frustrating to see leaders who fail to enforce standards. This would be my advice: If you can't elevate the issue, then remember that situation when you're in that position of leadership.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 31 at 2017 8:18 AM

2017-05-31T08:18:23-04:00

Well, if the soldier is truly deaf, I think it is best to move on and hope the Med Board speeds this soldier out of the military.
I have never actually been in the situation where someone was ate up and did not want to correct it when it was pointed out...so I am only guessing at what I would do? I guess it depends upon the level of the correction? Somethings MUST be elevated, somethings I would let go because I do not need to be that far out of my lane. You know what, I could not just let it go...they need to correct the error now and if not, the issue gets elevated.

Response by MGySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2017 9:14 AM

2017-05-31T09:14:27-04:00

Tough spot to be in. I worked in a Joint environment where cultures behind the services were very different. Sometimes it gets down to how you are raised in the service and how you are held accountable. In the Marines, a junior Marine is supposed to render the appropriate greeting of the day to a senior Marine (good morning/afternoon/evening *insert rank here*). Recently in a Joint environment I noticed Soldiers weren't performing the same act. I asked a SSG who was working for me why this was, and he let me know it is something Soldiers are taught, it's just never enforced. I started giving appropriate greetings and some Soldiers caught on when junior Marines would walk past myself or officers I was with. My recommendatoin is to hold the fiath.

Hold everyone accountable for their actions and don't be afraid to speak up. You'll be setting a proper prescedent holding true to a valued standard. Best of luck!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 31 at 2017 9:53 AM

2017-05-31T09:53:32-04:00

If correcting a subordinate outside your chain of command and its minor ..make it and move on. If major (cussing at spouse in the PX ) make it, note SM's CofC and have a word with leadership, one rank up.
If correcting a subordinate inside your chain of command and its minor ..make it and move on, make note to let their leadership at lowest level "marquez was not wearing his headgear between car and PX"... If major (cussing at spouse in the PX ) make it, have Sm meet you and his leadership for a talk...so both sides of the event can be heard at the same time by leadership, and move on.

If its a senior person and minor... offer the information needed to know what is being done is wrong and move on.
If it's a senior person and major deal offer the information needed to know what is being done is wrong, if they accept it move on..If they do not accept the constructive, professional, supported by reg, not just opining correction...My suggestion is bring it to YOUR chain of commands attention and ask them to handle it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-05-31T13:41:16-04:00

I appreciate all the responses. The soldiers in question are not deaf. And it's not just one on particular, it's a good amount. If I correct a leader than I usually get the "Oh! Roger that Sergeant", in like a sarcastic tone. Usually they correct it but later that day or week they're back at it. The lower enlisted will fix it the same but since thier leadership does it they usual follow suit of they're leadership. You are correct it's very frustrating when you have to fix a "leader". I'll defiantly take all the advice the group has offered and see if it makes any head room. I've considered just giving up but I'm pretty relentless and I won't allow them to bring me down lol. Thanks

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jun 1 at 2017 11:46 AM

2017-06-01T11:46:51-04:00

In the Air Force you get One verbal warning. If that doesn't work you get a letter of counseling (LOC), if you do it again its a letter of reprimand (LOR), if that doesn't work it is an article 15. An LOR and article 15 both effect your annual performance report and of course the article 15 is a demotion also.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2017 12:30 PM

2017-06-01T12:30:19-04:00

Barring a traumatic event, people don't change much: that is basic psychology. Don't support them when it comes to promotion or reenlistment. There are people who want it.

Response by PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson made Jun 1 at 2017 12:47 PM

2017-06-01T12:47:06-04:00

In my command we had positional authority. As an E3/E4 I occasionally had to train someone of E6/E7 level on an air traffic control position, and we had absolute authority on that position. The admiralty could not tell us what to do or not to do on that position. The only person we reported to was the on-duty RADAR or Tower Supervisor, and they to the Facility Watch Supervisor. That's not to say that we didn't have to follow orders, and if someone didn't like the way we were handling our position, they could have another *qualified* individual take over, but while on position our word was (literally, it's FAA regs) the law.

Having said that, if someone (even an E7) did something that I didn't like on position while I was training them and I corrected them but they didn't obey the correction, I would immediately eject them from training and notify the FWS. I would then write a training report and hand-deliver it to our CPOIC (E8) detailing why I ejected them and how they failed to properly train.

With the issue of air traffic control being a major public safety issue and something like firearm qualiifcations also being a major safety issue, I would expect that I am not unique in having the absolute positional authority over my field of responsibility as long as I am responsible for it, and I also don't expect that I'm the only one would not hesitate to eject a superior for failing to follow instructions/corrections.

OUTSIDE of that situation, I would say take it up with their immediate supervisor or if you are their immediate supervisor take some time out when it's appropriate to more thoroughly instruct the SM.