When an Officer resigns his commission to go Enlisted, how is his new Enlisted rank determined?

2020-10-28T09:45:53-04:00

This is research for a novel. Thank you for your help.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2020 9:51 AM

2020-10-28T09:51:14-04:00

If the officer was enlisted first, it's the previous rank held, E5 or higher. If not, it's E5 or higher based on a grade determination by HRC.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 28 at 2020 10:09 AM

2020-10-28T10:09:41-04:00

My experience shows a twice-passed over Air Force Capt can reenter as a SSgt (E5). I also met one MSgt (E7) who wore command pilot wings. Never asked but that indicates he was over 15 years rated so my guess was a former Maj who didn’t make Lt Col. Both cases were before DOPMA so they might have involved temporary reserve promotions.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Oct 28 at 2020 10:17 AM

2020-10-28T10:17:39-04:00

Each case is different based on the Officer’s circumstances; pre-commission rank, highest attained rank, etc...

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2020 10:17 AM

2020-10-28T10:17:56-04:00

By the Service, based on qualifications and needs of the Service. I knew a few Captains that reverted and in some cases were made SSgt or maybe GySgt. Depends on many factors.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2020 3:39 PM

2020-10-28T15:39:03-04:00

Typically LTs go SPC, pre command CPTs get SGT, and post command CPTs get SSG, but there are other factors.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2020 5:01 PM

2020-10-29T17:01:49-04:00

What in the haberdasheries and hemoglobins?? Who would ever do that?

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Oct 29 at 2020 7:32 PM

2020-10-29T19:32:47-04:00

I never heard of an officer (other than a warrant officer, and that was only once) going back to enlisted. Interesting question!

In the Marines anyways, while a Warrant Officer they are still considered for promotion in the enlisted ranks so if they revert they go to whatever that rank is they obtained.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2020 1:20 AM

2020-10-30T01:20:14-04:00

I thought top three enlisted grades were out of the question for former officers since one must go before a centralized selection board. I was told by a career counselor that former officers had to be enlisted for at least eight years before making SFC, even if it meant serving the whole eight years as a SSG. If the officer had a few years prior enlisted, as I did, it would be credited toward the congressionally mandated time requirement. One of my 1LTs reverted as he had much disdain serving as a junior office. The Army wouldn't let him go back to senior NCO glory either, but he did retire at the grade of MSG. For most officers, it is E5 or E6, depending on circumstances of course. When I was Navy enlisted, I served with a former Army National Guard Captain who was a a PO2 (E5), but made E3 by going AWOL for a couple of days. Another PO1 (E6) I worked for was wearing LT (O3) bars a year after not seeing him. I asked him how he managed to do it, and he told me he once held a commission as an Army Captain prior to enlisting in the Navy. Officers are reinstated to their former officer grade if they re-commission, as he did, later in their careers. Many service members have gone from enlisted to officer back to enlisted and then officer again, especially between World War II and the Korean War. This makes for very interesting conversation.

Response by COL R. Bruce Chisholm made Oct 31 at 2020 4:34 PM

2020-10-31T16:34:52-04:00

Just a personal observation:
If I were on a promotion board, as soon as saw a MOH in the record, I put the file in the promote immediately stack. If I saw 2MOH, I’d move it to the top of the pile.

Response by MAJ Christopher Thompson made Dec 24 at 2020 3:12 AM

2020-12-24T03:12:59-05:00

For your research, did not omit the conditions of why the officer resigned his commission. It is not as simple as potentially returning to previous (if any) enlisted rank. Young officers with no prior service can go to E-4 and even E-1, if for disciplinary justifications or contract failures!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2021 6:15 AM

2021-01-23T06:15:05-05:00

I was commissioned in 1993 as a 2LT in the Army Reserves and did a couple of years in the Guard and Reserves. When I got out, I was a 1LT. I decided after some life changing events to go back into the Army. When you get out of the Army, an officer must resign their commission. When I enlisted back into the Army, I came in as an E-4 because I had a four year degree. I could not become an E-5 because I did not have enough Active Duty time as a LT. In order to get my commission back, I had to reapply for my commission and was able to come back in as 1LT in the Reserves. Two years later, I was able to go on Active Duty via to the Call to Active Duty Program. Currently, I am a MAJ on Active Duty.

For your book, you could make him a SGT and then with time he would go up to SSG pretty quickly. When your character gets whatever rank, the only thing holding them back is the Time In Service requirement for each rank.

Response by Lt Col Andrew Brunetto made Jan 27 at 2021 9:12 PM

2021-01-27T21:12:23-05:00

My nephew recently did this and he enlisted as an E-5.

Response by CPT Charles Creed made Jan 30 at 2021 3:35 PM

2021-01-30T15:35:00-05:00

Out of curiosity, because I've always heard the same thing: resign commission and presto change-o E5, is there an actual policy letter or anything written down to say what the process or procedure is, or is this just a Needs of the Army, may the odds be ever in your favor that you get sergeant stripes, deal?

Response by CPL Theodore Moore made Feb 22 at 2021 2:51 AM

2021-02-22T02:51:10-05:00

You can do that? I have never heard of that.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 1:45 PM

2021-03-02T13:45:16-05:00

I left the Navy as a 7-year O3, accepted to Surface Warfare Department Head School and enlisted in the FLNG to go SF. I came in as an E5 in Air Defense Artillery because I had attended cruise missile engagement school (which has absolutely nothing to do with ADA). Within 4 years, I was an SFC in SF. Subsequently, I was recommissioned AD Navy to go through med school. That's how you can make O1 times two, O3 times two and O4 in just 20 years. I was the first one in my USNA class to put on E7 and the last one to put on O4. However, I did not earn a DFC and 2 MOH. Wouldn't it be okay to have a protagonist have just one DFC or even a Silver Star? You still have to be pretty BA to earn those awards.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2021 1:53 PM

2021-03-02T13:53:27-05:00

I resigned my (original) commission as on O3 in the Navy to enlist in the FLNG as an E5, ADA branch (I had attended cruise missile engagement planning school as a Surface Warfare Officer, and someone mistakenly thought it had something to do with Air Defense Artillery). I put on E6 going through the Q course, and within 4 years, I was a SFC in SF. I subsequently recommissioned AD in the Navy to go to medical school. I distinguished myself by being the first member of my USNA class to make E7 and the last to make O4. On a book related note, can't protagonist ever just have a simple Silver star or maybe even a single DFC? A knuckle-dragger is probably pretty BA to earn either of those awards. Other than the possible exception of Bob Howard, it seems like overkill to have a DFC and two MOHs.

Response by SFC Mario DeRogatis made Mar 4 at 2021 6:45 AM

2021-03-04T06:45:07-05:00

We had a LTCOL in the NG and he resigned his commission and became an E5, but he was still treated as an officer.

Response by LTC Charles "Pappy" Patchin made Mar 4 at 2021 10:44 PM

2021-03-04T22:44:03-05:00

There are time frames involved. WW2, Korea and VN had a lot of direct commissions and fast promotions, 6 month OCS and 20 year old Captains (O-3). At drawdown or 'peace dividend" or "needs of the service" most Direct Commissions, as a Reserve Officer on Active Duty, were given a choice to go resign their commission or get out OR retain their Reserve Commission and revert to an enlisted rank, usually E-5 or their previously held higher NCO rank AND some because of their higher commissioned rank be advanced a rank or 2 as an NCO. I can specifically recall a SGM in Vietnam the troops called General. I asked why. He had been a Brigadier, was given his choice and he went to MSG then got promoted and at that time would have retired as an O-7. Also we had a SMG that had his Reserve Commission reactivated and moved into a set of Captains bars. A few years later he was SGM, again. It is a bit different for Regular Officers. They usually go out after 4 or 8 years, depending on what their obligation to the service is. Some will resign and go out. Some will request reserve status then enlist as E-1 to E-5. When they want to or "needs of the Service" asks them to re-Commission they go back as the prior O rank or an advanced rank based on reserve promotion status. Today, almost everything is bean counter heaven and Human Resources civilians pretty much have a dart board or Magic 8 Ball with answers as to what a persons status is to become.

Every once in a while there will be an O that becomes a Warrant Officer. CWO2-5 are commissioned now. There used to be 2 grades of WO. WO and CWO. Then it became 4 then 5. Completely different animals all together and believe it when a reference is made about WOPA: Warrant Officer Protective Association.

Response by LTC David Howard made Mar 5 at 2021 5:46 PM

2021-03-05T17:46:20-05:00

I literally have never heard of such of action, and for the life of me cannot imagine a scenario where that would be done. Although I was a military personnel officer at one time, I can't recall even knowing about a regulation which would govern such a request.

Response by MAJ Louis Giamo made Mar 7 at 2021 9:44 PM

2021-03-07T21:44:50-05:00

Depends on why. My first Active Duty assignment, my Co Cdr (Cpt) was a for SSG who went through OCS. However, he only had an Associates Degree and never finished his BA degree. He was passed over for Major because he didn't get his BA. Rather than leave AD, he reverted back to his previous NCO rank as an SSG. He put in 30 years and retired. Now for the kicker, while an NCO he completed his BA and his officer rank was Reserve. In the Reserves he was promoted to LTC and when he retired, that was his highest rank for retirement pay.

Response by SFC Craig Titzkowski made Mar 8 at 2021 5:51 PM

2021-03-08T17:51:48-05:00

Okay I have seen and heard a lot on this check it out. I had Col that was enlisted and made the rank of E-7 if he needed to he could go back to his rank then retire at the officer rank and it would reflect it on his ID upon retirement. He didn't he retired as a Col. 2nd one was a LTC he was from the Marine corps he got out and came back into the National Guard as an E-5 he made all the requirements and stayed as an E-5 then got sanctuary and retired an LTC. The 3rd one was a Jr officer didn't make the cut and went to enlisted ranks he was bad as enlisted and was being processed out he jumped states and got his commission back I heard it didn't work out for him. I just hope they have fixed that loop hole. Being an NCO was great but retirement pay of an officer is better.

Response by CW3 Joseph Lawrence made Mar 9 at 2021 12:05 PM

2021-03-09T12:05:02-05:00

I was fortunate as I was the last person in the Guard to receive a Certificate of Eligibility for Warrant Officer, I went to the board and because of my qualifications I was waivered from SFC to W2. When I went to get my Warrant I had a very long discussion with a Captain who said I couldn't go from SFC to W2, even though the certificate said so. When he went to the latrine, I had the Colonel sign my documents and made my warrant. During my time I saw several rank determinations, one from CW3 to Major (Never see that again) One from PFC to 1st Lt. (Education and Experience) One from Captain to W2. It all depends of the need in the field and the experience and education of the officer. No doubt all his OER's will enter in to it.

Response by MAJ Gregory Moon made Apr 25 at 2021 9:47 PM

2021-04-25T21:47:20-04:00

I didn't resign I had been put out of the the reserves for failure to get promoted. I had 17 years at that point I got some good advice to enlist to at least earn my 20 retirement letter. In my case the Reserve Support command was the approving authority for my rank I was shooting for E-7 as I had been a senior CPT . If you are going into the Reserves the authority to approve enlisted rank is in the RSC Like the 81st. My packet was not being referred for GO sign off. So I got E-6. After 6years and 1 deployment I was recommissioned and went on with 2 more deployments to serve out to my max commissioned service time.