When is it that the army will start promoting soldiers for their knowledge and leadership?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 23:55:03 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 11:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 23:57:50 -0400

you have to earn promotion and i do not see the army moving in the direction you want. You want promotion you have to work your ass off and earn it

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Jul 2 at 2016 11:58 PM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 23:58:43 -0400

Well, that has been an age-old question for centuries. Within the current system that exists, it is hard to see this happening without the necessary Soldiering and MOS technical know-how. Simply be the best at what you have been trained to do, and you will be noticed.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 12:00 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 00:00:40 -0400

That's an answer we've been all waiting for I think.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 1:11 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 01:11:40 -0400

Million dollar question!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 1:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 01:41:46 -0400

I may be reading your question wrong but the army does base promotions on knowledge and leadership ability. I have yet to see a soldier promoted to sergeant without attending a promotion board which test their general military knowledge and are recommended by their leadership based on potential.
Now if you are referring to leaders who recommend their favorites for promotion, that is an issue with all services. Moreover the army promotion system is designed to prevent this. It doesn't matter If you are the favorite because If you don't have the points by doing the work, you still won't get promoted.
If you are referring to MOS knowledge test, never. We are not like the other branches of service and the army sees general military knowledge as more important that MOS specific knowledge. I didn't understand this until I reclassed. Going into a new MOS as a sergeant, I was nervous about leading soldiers who were more proficient in the MOS, but what I learned was my capabilities as a leader allowed me to learn WHILE leading. It also taught me to be humble enough to know I didn't know it all and I could learn from my subordinates which built a strong bond of trust.

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made Jul 3 at 2016 2:32 AM

SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:32:11 -0400

Just like in the private sector, you have people who test well on paper but aren't good with hands-on tasks & vice versa. You also have people who are book smart but not as gifted in common sense. Continue to take on responsibilities, always look for opportunities to learn more, be mentored, work on weaknesses and highlight your strengths. I saw quite a few folks in my time get promoted that left me shaking my head. But all we can do is learn from the good and bad qualities of leaders you work with, & don't give up.

I finally put on SGT when I deployed to the Middle East...3yrs after I left AD. My MOS was small, & none of the senior NCOs wanted to go for MSG because they became our sister MOS. So, our promotion points were maxed out at 798 from 1995 until I left Korea in 1999. Two months before I was supposed to ETS, they dropped to 650. I made the cut, but the only way I'd pin SGT was to reenlist. I had just gotten accepted into college, so I left the Army in 99 as CPL(P).

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 3:23 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 03:23:26 -0400

Well, they have been doing it since I have been it. That is all I have going for me.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 5:27 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 05:27:55 -0400

Easy Answer. E-5

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 6:26 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 06:26:31 -0400

The Army does promote Soldiers on their leadership and knowledge. The Promotion Board is designed to ensure the Soldier has the basic resources to begin leading and mentoring Soldiers. It does not mean he is guru and is the be all end all. When a young Soldier is new in rank they are still learning how to operate in their new rank. It will be some time before they are proficient. Once proficient they are ready for the next rank. The timing is different for everyone; that is one reason we have a TIS / TIG requirement. You cannot expect a new SGT to know everything. If a new SGT were to be judged against a SGT with three years TIG the less experienced SGT would be at a disadvantage. The new SGT has not been leading Solders as long and has not worked through or been exposed to the variety of Soldier challenges the more seasoned SGT has.

Additionally, every NCO has a different leadership style which is constantly inproving. I know I am not the same NCO I was 5 years ago; nor am I the same NCO as when I was first promoted in DEC04. I have changed my style with experience and mentor ship from my leadership.

I am thinking this question has some basis in a situation you are currently in. You have a SGT in charge of you and there is some friction. Be patient with them. They don't have all the answers and neither will you when you first get promoted. Being an NCO is not as easy as you think it is. You'll see. Take care.

Response by PFC Crystal Sprague made Jul 3 at 2016 7:27 AM

PFC Crystal Sprague — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 07:27:33 -0400

Although promotions to NCO and above require a board, all junior enlisted seem to have a promotion standard set on how well your PT score is anymore. I was passed up for a waiver for promotion even though I had better evaluations because my PT score wasn't as high as the individual who recieved the waiver.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 8:43 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:43:13 -0400

In all honestly I think we are the beginning of another change in the army. With the new STEP system you have to start looking at places to gain the extra knowledge to get points for the next rank. Schools and college have become more important. NCOES is mandatory to reach the next rank. CL and Distinguished Honor grad make a huge difference now.

Then you have the new NCOER that is very similar to the OER. This is making NCO's take another look at how they are standing apart from their peers. Not everyone can be the best now.

Just remember we arn't a new army. We are the best because we adapt and change. And this seems to be the next big change.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jul 3 at 2016 9:24 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 09:24:01 -0400

Why not? We have done that in the Navy since it's inception. Works well.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 9:31 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 09:31:56 -0400

How would this be applied objectively and uniformly without "yes men" bias? I agree with the overall statement but when it comes to actually executing this, it's virtually impossible on a scale of over a million strong military service.

Response by 1SG James Lampe made Jul 3 at 2016 11:20 AM

1SG James Lampe — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:20:23 -0400

My comments may be dated so please keep this in mind...I do not believe that the Army will ever promote based on knowledge and leadership or ever have, with the possible exception of battlefield promotions, but I haven't heard of this happening lately.
The Army doesn't promote on knowledge and leadership, but rather a Soldiers potential for success at the next rank. After all, there is no way to say for certain that a Soldier will be successful for certain at the next rank. The methods used to determine that potential have changed over the years, and none have been perfect. We have all seen those promoted who excel, those that meet the standard and those that struggle. It's not a perfect system, but it is what you have to work with. Additionally, skills other than knowledge and leadership are important in determining a Soldiers potential for success at the next rank, such as physical fitness, weapons qual, military and civilian education, current and past performance at the current rank as reflected in counseling, awards, commendations, etc.
Again, some of this may have changed since I retired, but I would recommend that you focus on the system that is used and do everything you can to maximize in every area to become as competitive as you can with your peers. Additionally, as you rise in the ranks, gaining skill sets that may not be specific to your MOS will make you more "valuable" to the Army and help a great deal when competing for promotion in the Senior NCO ranks.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jul 3 at 2016 11:57 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:57:34 -0400

This question will still be asked 100 years from now :)

Response by SP5 Chris Seltz made Jul 3 at 2016 2:00 PM

SP5 Chris Seltz — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 14:00:24 -0400

The system when i was nco was very flawed. The board i went to had little to do with my day to day as an 11b. For combat arms it should be more like the old eib lanes. Get a young man out there and manuever a team. Lots of knowledgable soldiers who cant aplly it in the field.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 2:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 14:11:23 -0400

I get was you're trying to say but the army does promote based on leadership and knowledge. With the integration of the Step program you cannot be promoted without passing the proper ncoes

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 6:49 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 18:49:59 -0400

You must be recommended to participate on a promotion board. With that being said, somebody, somewhere believed the Soldier had potential for the next rank. What that Soldier does when they receive that next rank is up to that specific Soldier

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 4 at 2016 12:20 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 00:20:15 -0400

When they ELIMINATE the Following:

1) Separate standards for males and females
2) Protected Classes of individuals, by Gender, Race or Orientation
3) Eliminate all references to Race, Gender and ANYTHING other than performance from ALL documentation.
4) Assign a number to records so that no one on DA Centralized boards knows the race gender or ethnicity of the record they are looking at.

Then Soldier, THEN will Leaders be promoted for ability and nothing else.

Response by SPC Koury Ramey made Jul 4 at 2016 4:09 PM

SPC Koury Ramey — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 16:09:42 -0400

When you have a 300 on the APFT...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 8:16 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 08:16:37 -0400

Never you'll have to earn it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 10:46 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:46:21 -0400

I think the problem is the wording of your question. The Army promotion system is designed to promote based on a soldiers knowledge and leadership. It's those that make those recommendations and implement the system that sometimes fail to promote based on those concepts. A soldier should only reach a promotion board of their unit feels as though the soldier has demonstrated their strong knowledge and leadership as well as potential. When you say Army, you're making the assumption that all units and leadership recommend promotion the same. But some units do not. The promotion system is designed correctly by the Army. It's those in the leadership position making those recommendations that sometimes fail to properly implement that program. The new STEP promotion system will help but again it's subject to those who are implementing it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 11:26 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 11:26:14 -0400

Spec Silver: The Army normally follows the Regulations for all promotions...TIS/TIG (Time In Service & Time In Grade), yet they have wide discretion on such things as you mentioned and can "waiver" up to 50% of the requirements for meritorious reasons. Commanders and Senior NCO's can recommend advanced Board Actions for promotion to the next grade levels. At least that's the regulation that I followed before retirement in 1995; AR-140-185....I believe it's now changed to AR 600-8-19? Keep doing a super job and let your actions speak on your behalf. All the best to you! - TOP

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 1:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 13:04:32 -0400

If you take the initiative, you will get promoted based on knowledge and leadership. I spend many night doing correspondence courses. I also volunteered for any assignments as I could get my hands on in order to learn more about how the unit runs. It certainly didn't hurt to go finish my degree. If you take the time to not only learn your job, but learn about how other soldiers' jobs affect yours (and you, there's) it is only a matter of time and you'll be promoted. Keep learning, keep growing, and you'll get there.

Response by SFC Rick H made Jul 16 at 2016 2:45 PM

SFC Rick H — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:45:31 -0400

To Specialist whoever you are and to entertain your question... when will the Army start promoting soldiers based on their knowledge and leadership skills? First up is this idea- if you are an E3 for example and want to be promoted to E4. Your unit 1SG receives a number of promotion allocations on a monthly basis. This is where positive counseling comes into play. Your unit has several sharp/on point troopers who deserve to be promoted based on their vast knowledge and excellent leadership skills. These skills must be captured via document (counseling statement), to show evidence of these skills- these (positive), 4856r documents, will be presented to the 1SG for review and to assist in deciding who will be promoted during that particular month. The 4856r is not the only evidence required to promote a soldier however, they are gold when decisions have to be made. Rock Steady and Continue to March... HOOAH