When should a leader take a passive approach and allow the soldier to make mistakes?

SPC Lukas Jones — Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:44:54 -0500

Hello community! I have a question about which leadership style you follow. But first let me preface with the backstory below:

this last weekend, my unit went to the range for our annual weapons qualification. Since there were several birthdays this month, the majority of the unit decided to go into town that night and celebrate. A leader whom I will not name is an active member with AA and she and I decided to not go into town with the group but rather stay back at the barracks with a handful of other soldiers. As we were waiting for the bus to come get us from the range and take us back to the barracks, we were discussing the responsibility of leaders to ensure the wellbeing of soldiers and she admitted to not knowing the proper approach to take when it came to intervening on a soldiers unhealthy habitual behaviors.

Her quandary is this; and I would like leaders to vote and comment on which approach they feel would be most beneficial: should a leader take a passive approach and allow the soldier to make mistakes then offer constructive counseling on how to change their lifestyles or should a leader take a more "spare the rod, spoil the child" approach and prohibit the activity before a life lesson can be learned.

I will note, this discussion was premised with talking about soldiers drinking specifically when on free time during a training weekend. As a reformed alcoholic, she was having a personal existential crisis on this matter as she has been on both sides of this scenario.

I will also say, thus leader ha been mentoring me for some time and has been helping me develop my own leadership abilities and therefore I wish to omit the remainder of our discussion as I want to draw a more impartial vote on this question.

Last thing, command allowed the trip into town and ensured there were sober designated drivers to transport the soldiers to and from the bar.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2015 10:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:48:55 -0500

I Chose the second option because the Command has a plan in place.

Now to caveat that I would also state that those who do not wish to participate be able to have that choice without being frowned upon.

Maybe even have a gathering of everyone that does not involve alcohol.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2015 11:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Feb 2015 23:53:07 -0500

This is a good question as I think many leaders struggle with this in their career. I don't think your question is really about allowing soldiers to go drink, but with your NCO's internal struggle. I think at this point a leader needs to separate their personal lives from their professional lives, and they shouldn't make leadership decisions SOLELY (not that it can't be considered) based upon their own personal experience. For example if a soldier goes to Airborne school and breaks their ankle, they shouldn't discourage other soldiers from pursuing this based upon their personal experience. You're asking the right questions, and I'm sure will be a successful leader.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 1:15 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 01:15:52 -0500

I personally do not approve the plan to do strait to the bar and drink all night; I find it hard to believe that most people are mission capable after that kind of night out.

I do believe that grown adults have the right to make their own choices.

As far as the commander, he/she did ensure a DD (for safety) and hopefully a safety brief to include the consequences of not being prepared for training/morning formation the following day.

In the past, especially during training, as a commander I have placed drink restrictions and time limits on outings but it was due to the nature of the mission. It is hard to impose restrictions during drill weekends mostly because the Soldiers are not use to being restricted.

As a leader, it is yours/mine/our responsibility to ensure the safety of our Soldiers. Sometimes that means cutting off the resources to negative influences and other times it means being available for DD or counseling.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 2:29 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 02:29:20 -0500

I tend to side with SFC James Sczymanski on this one. There are rules and regulations already in place to maintain good order and discipline i.e. drunk on duty, failure to report, etc. One thing that Soldiers always complain about is that they are not treated like adults so, I treat them like adults and if they fail to act like adults then they receive adult punishment. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Leaders are encouraged to mitigate risk which is a good thing but, you will never emplace enough measures to operate without risk. Safety briefings, curfews, two drink limits are all emplaced to mitigate risk yet everyday we have DUIs, drunk on duty, failure to report, etc. Sometimes those measures make doing the wrong thing more attractive but, most of the time Soldiers aren't even listening.

On another note, if you notice one of your Soldiers that has a problem with alcohol or drugs (high risk) you should definitely attempt to assist that Soldier. There are plenty of good options for you to reach out to and get that Soldier some help.

Response by 2LT Charley Gibbs made Feb 17 at 2015 5:11 AM

2LT Charley Gibbs — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 05:11:27 -0500

Alcohol and training (not AIT) needs to be a command interest and NCO's are the problem finders. By drink limit I mean DO NOT set foot outside intoxicated. Be sober enough to get to the designated driver's location ON TIME, EVERY TIME. Do not count on sobering up in the morning when training resumes. I welcome the sex, drugs, and rock and roll safety meetings some units have before dismissal for the day.

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Feb 17 at 2015 7:01 AM

MSgt Michael Durkee — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 07:01:28 -0500

Sharing your personal experiences and possibly any consequences you've realized from them can be effective, but ultimately the soldiers have to work through the lessons themselves. I'm not saying let them just go out with the sole purpose of getting blottoed, as SFC James Sczymanski said, provide them with a safety net within reason, and let them take responsibility for their choices.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 17 at 2015 7:23 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 07:23:50 -0500

For the most part, we're adults, and should be treated as adults. There is not a person alive who doesn't know better than to drink & drive. Assuming they were given a proper safety briefing, which includes contact information and hopefully guidance to have a designated driver, there is no reason to set a drink limit, as this was not a "command function."

A "command function" is a different beast entirely, and is essentially a social activity that is happening during working hours.

Now that said, if people are unable to perform as adults, especially when it comes to drinking... during a range week... when weapons are involved, nail them to the wall.

My personal level of intervention would be making sure folks had my number, my bosses number in case the couldn't reach me for whatever reason, and a reminder what time the work day begins in the morning and what the training schedule entails (live fire). I do this as a courtesy, not as babysitting. If there are personnel who have had specific issues in the past, they may get more than gentle reminders.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 8:29 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:29:19 -0500

Hard to figure out where to start with this one. At no point should the two go out drinking together. A responsible leader may have offered to be a dd, however, there are taxis everywhere.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 9:25 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:25:10 -0500

I beleive that if my Soldiers have demonstrated responsible behavior, I will extend to them priviledges such as the one in this scenario - with a proper safety brief, of course. Individuals who have identified themselves as being irresposible either don't go or have an NCO responsible for ensuring proper conduct. Disregard the priviledges I extend to you and don't do the right thing, expect to be held accountable, along with any others who should have intervened to prevent bad behavior.

Look. I am a simple man. We are all grown ups. You may do as you please during your spare time if authorized to do so. If you get on my radar, you will pay. Don't be that guy, and we will get along smashingly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 10:26 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 10:26:18 -0500

I've been on both sides of the coin when the unit was not allowed to drink and when the unit would intentionaly try to drink the bar empty.

We entrust Soldiers with weapons and leaders with their Soldiers lives. Why not allow them to let their hair down and have a drink.

If we've done the mandatory alcohol and drug classes, a safety briefing with outlined expectations and enforcing consequences of bad behavior, established designated drivers or given Soldiers the taxi phone number or FLL phone number then the unit has done their CYA. A unit could go furthur by establishing one place to drink, drink limit, a courtesy patrol, battle buddy teams, and a curfew.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 12:22 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:22:04 -0500

This sounds like a working weekend.

If so, then I think light social drinking ok, very light.

If at the range, I'd err on the side of caution and prohibit drinking. That's a time when we need folks to have 100% clarity when handling live ammo and weapons.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 2:20 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:20:50 -0500

Allow them to drink, those that choose to do something stupid will be held accountable for their actions. The point of discipline is to build more self discipline. If you limit drinks or prohibit drinks then you are not encouraging self discipline, you are in fact creating a crutch.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 4:58 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:58:02 -0500

Depends on the behavior. Is the soldiers are of age and drinking responsibly then there is nothing wrong with decompressing. However, if there is some destructive behavior associated with these gatherings then some some peer intervention may be necessary followed by some senior leadership if constituted.

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Sep 25 at 2016 2:50 PM

TSgt Melissa Post — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:50:55 -0400

You cannot instill your own beliefs on others. They may not believe the same as you or have the same struggles as you. There are times when leaders do need to enact preventative measures. These usually involve instances that will jeopardize life and limb. In this particular instance though, I think the best thing a leader can do is to let his/her people know that they have a standard to uphold being part of the military and to monitor and conduct themselves accordingly as well as that of their buddy. In the Air Force we call this wingman concept, i believe the army calls it battle buddy. I would also let them know that should something happen with their plan, they need to call you and you will be there for them. Again each situation is different, and that is part of being a leader. You have to learn how to adapt to each situation. I am finishing up leadership school and recently we had a briefing by our O-6. I asked him "What is something you do for your new subordinates to get them started on the right path?" He said that he sits down with them and gets to know them and their personality, what they need, and how they respond to different types of leaders. Then he adapts to help them accordingly. He said "It is not the follower's responsibility to change to match the leader, but the leader's responsibility to adapt to their followers to get the best possible response from them." Just my thoughts. :) Good luck.