Where do you draw the line on workplace conversations about the opposite sex?

2019-10-04T16:21:20-04:00

Post-platoon leader in the hollowed land of BN S3.

While doing work, several O1s, E7, E8s were conversing about a GA college. To boil it down, a large proportion of the conversation revolved around the women of the college. "I would totally go to that college because of all the hot girls," "a 20:1 girl-to-guy ratio, where do I sign up," "I would [get turned on] when a girl says Howdy.," etc. etc. Other comments were revolved in saying how female physical features are more attractive versus others, and so on so on.
Essentially, the discussion was guys talking about how attractive females were, but never strafing into the degrading of females. I remained silent, when I think I should have said that sort of conversation isn't fit for a professional environment.

Where is the line between "this is normal "I-like-females" conversation" versus "This is inappropriate?"

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2019 4:24 PM

2019-10-04T16:24:46-04:00

That is hard to find. It would likely be dependent on the environment. But of course the best way is to not even talk about it in the first place. Leave the locker room talk in the locker room

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 4 at 2019 4:30 PM

2019-10-04T16:30:36-04:00

Just a simple reminder to them- Sexual Harassment is in the eyes of the complainer, could you defend yourself using this conversation- Bye I'm gone.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Oct 4 at 2019 5:17 PM

2019-10-04T17:17:57-04:00

Ask yourself how would you feel if some group was talking about your sister or girlfriend this way? How would she feel? If either of those questions raises an issue, just ask people to leave the locker room conversation in the locker room or at least somewhere away from the workplace

Response by COL Dana Hampton made Oct 4 at 2019 5:41 PM

2019-10-04T17:41:14-04:00

You just discribed “inappropriate” to a tee.

The fact that you are even asking this question, says you know where the line is...and when it is crossed.

Where’s the line? It’s where the brain connects to your vocal cords.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Oct 5 at 2019 2:07 AM

2019-10-05T02:07:39-04:00

Talking stuff outside work is like football. Three things can happen and two of them are bad. Confronting a group as a JO usually isn't a good thing. Even if you're right, they'll think you're skewed, or a threat, and will make sure you're isolated. One thing I taught my JOs early was let people much more capable deal with it. A private word with the SEL. A private word with a peer. I had the good fortune to have a couple of female SELs over my Skipper years. They really had good sense and could apply the correct tweaks, especially with errant female SMs. BTW my SELs knew I was heart attack serious about proper behavior and enjoyed my direct support of them making sure it happened.

Saw some other comments. The triggering of a problem is defined to a "reasonable person" standard, not the individual. That change came after several painful years in Title VII law. That and a number of court judgements that hammered many dinosaurs back to the stone age. They're still out there though.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2019 8:43 AM

2019-10-05T08:43:23-04:00

Perfect time for your Sr NCO to prepare an MDMP on the next FTX and prepare to brief in next 96 hrs to the CSM.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Oct 7 at 2019 10:13 AM

2019-10-07T10:13:21-04:00

Ideally, this type of conversation should not happen at the workplace, but people are human, and many of us spend more time in our workplace then anywhere else, and is the majority of social contact we have. This is a fact, especially in the Operations Shop. That being said, you have a right to a work environment where you are comfortable, and if the conversation is blurring the lines, then it is inappropriate. Dealing with it yourself all depends upon the relationship you have with your peers and co-workers, but I wouldn't recommend taking that route. If you are in the 3 shop, you have two informal avenues to utilize in order to make your environment less uncomfortable to you. One, speak to the OPS SGM, and let him/her attempt to remedy the situation Two, you can speak to the OPS Major, He/She is your direct supervisor. You have a third informal avenue as well, you can speak to the Battalion SHARP representative to intervene. There have been times when I was the SHARP representative and overhearing lines being blurred or crossed. Depending upon who the conversation involved, I either made an on the spot correction, or spoke to the supervisor that such conversations can lead to unintended consequences should someone decide to file a formal complaint. Hope this helps you and good luck.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Oct 7 at 2019 2:58 PM

2019-10-07T14:58:28-04:00

1LT Private RallyPoint Member, lots of good stuff below. I would heed CMSgt Virgil Horsley's advice. The solid line in a professional workplace is commonly when the subject matter has nothing to do with your job. There would be no "normal "I-like-females" conversation" by this standard. However, because of the social context that SSG Robert Perrotto mentioned, we as humans will invariably talk to each other at work about non-work stuff, this creates the gray area that gets Soldiers in trouble. I personally do not agree with A1C Chris Pointer's take, talking about who you find attractive in a professional workplace is never appropriate, simply because it sets the stage to explain why and you begin to set a new standard for acceptable conversations.
Best scenario for you have a conversation with your colleagues on what is professional workplace conversations in accordance with guidance and regulation. COL Private RallyPoint Member highlights a great point that acceptance is dependent on environment. But all it takes is one person to be uncomfortable with the conversation, and they only have to hear about someone else who overheard it.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Oct 13 at 2019 7:22 PM

2019-10-13T19:22:25-04:00

I'd leave that off my list of conversations