Which UCMJ Articles should be stated in Event-oriented Counseling?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 14:50:22 -0500

<p>Should  UCMJ Articles you feel were violated be included in a counseling statement or; should you only address the offense and let the CoC along with the legal office decide what Articles to proceed with when UCMJ action is recommended?</p>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2014 2:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 14:58:43 -0500

Per my BDE legal. Only address the offense and let them decide what AR to use or not use. Good luck........

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 25 at 2014 3:27 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:27:06 -0500

SFC Crouch and SSG Szika hit the nail on the head.  Only state the facts about the offense. 

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2014 3:43 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:43:58 -0500

Naturally each installation's TDS and brigade legal representatives do things different from one installation to another but to answer your question, NO. A good rule of thumb is to leave out whatever articles and legal jargon from your counseling statement(s) and stick to the facts like time, date, and infraction. Also in your plan of action, leader responsibilities, or assessment do not put corrective training. TDS and legal views this as action already taken and punishment complete. 

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2014 4:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:19:59 -0500

SSG Whittington,

1SG Rink pretty much nailed the way I have always been taught. Both by my Unit legal teams and SJA's I have had the opportunity to learn from. I always keep a copy of the punitive articles of the UCMJ on hand, and may use them as reference. But limit the statement to facts, times, dates, etc.

The plan of action is always "I am referring this to the chain of command for further action".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2014 4:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jan 2014 04:17:25 -0500

The problem when people quote Articles of the UCMJ in a counseling is that they only look at the title of the Article, they don't actually look into what the article defines as a violation of the UCMJ.

A good rule of thumb is to not put it in there, right now my job is the Squadron Legal Liaison...I'm not legal but all I do is handle Chapter Packets and Article 15's, and I can tell you that I kick back packets/counselings where someone fails to fill them in properly.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2014 4:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jan 2014 04:21:05 -0500

I worked with legal and in most cases they don't want them put in. It's a precaution to keep NCOs from putting the wrong ones in and messing up a article 15 case

Response by SSG Robert Blum made Mar 23 at 2014 5:30 AM

SSG Robert Blum — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 05:30:26 -0400

I personally have had sucess noting the articles, however I do not say that the Soldier is in violation of that article, I say that he/she could be, inform them of the maximum punishments they could receive if found guilty by a court martial. Leaving room for the Command and leagal to decide what was actually violated.

Response by SSG Zachery Mitchell made Mar 23 at 2014 5:52 AM

SSG Zachery Mitchell — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 05:52:35 -0400

I never put UCMJ article in event oriented counselings. I always put the facts of what happened and let the COC/Legal decide if they are in violation of any article of the UCMJ.