Who started the generic rank structure amongst all nations?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:07:28 -0500

This is in regards to NATO countries. I understand the pay grade structure but I noticed Belgium has an OR - 4 that is a Corporal, Just like how the Marines and the Army have as well. Then I noticed a Senior Master Sergeant in the USAF it’s an OR-8 for NATO, and the Spanish Air Force it’s exactly the same rank title and pay grade. Canadian Navy has Petty Officers just like the USN just in a different order and mix but a Petty Officer nonetheless. Where exactly did the Rank to Pay Grade similarities start? I understand the OR pay grade and where it started but I couldn’t find out who started the Rank Title for all of us to have the same rank for the same grade. It’s more for my own curiosity and knowledge, I just found it intriguing.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 25 at 2020 12:28 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:28:00 -0500

Have no real idea- but probably the brits several hundred yrs ago.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2020 12:59 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:59:57 -0500

The Romans had a rank structure, but today's ranks really took shape in medieval Europe. Officers were members of the aristocracy, commissioned by the King to lead, and enlisted men were commoners. Each lord would raise a company of men, commanded by a Captain (who was assisted by a Lieutenant), and make that company available to his King. There were three main enlisted ranks: Sergeant (roughly equivalent to US SNCOs), Corporals (in charge of a squad, comes from the Italian world for "head"), and Privates (called such because they signed a private enlistment contract with the Captain).
The Navy got its ranks from the British Empire, who developed the modern naval rank structure with their massive fleet. I'm not as well versed on that though, so I can't explain the individual ranks.

As time went on, ranks got sub-divided down, and here we are today!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 25 at 2020 3:19 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 15:19:10 -0500

After a very little research, it looks like the grades associated with military ranks for NATO nations were probably developed, or at least approved, by the NATO Military Committee. There are many similarities among NATO nation's rank structures, but also significant differences. Countries greatly influenced by the UK use a rank structure similar to the UK with Army, Navy, and Air Force officer ranks having many different names, for example, "commander" instead of "Lieutenant Colonel."

The introduction of the NATO rank codes or grades allows military personnel from different nations serving on NATO staffs or NATO Task Forces to understand their relationships in terms of rank. This is very helpful when the rank titles don't actually describe the job the Service Member holds. For example, not all RAF Squadron Leaders actually lead squadrons.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 25 at 2020 8:09 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 20:09:25 -0500

I think it just evolved in a mud puddle somewhere.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2020 2:24 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 02:24:05 -0500

Great question! Military history is a fascinating subject and well worth studying.

NATO standardized it ranks among member nations in 1978.
If you really really really are interested....
https://militaria.lv/stanag.htm

As far as the history of modern military ranks, from wiki

Origins of modern ranks[edit]
As the Middle Ages came to an end, the rank structure of medieval armies became more formalized. The top officers were known as commissioned officers because their rank came from a royal commission. Army commissions were usually reserved for those of high stature—the aristocracy of mainland Europe and the aristocracy and gentry of Great Britain.

The basic unit of the medieval army was the company, a band of soldiers assigned (or raised) by a vassal lord on behalf of his lord (in later times the king himself). The vassal lord in command of the company was a commissioned officer with the rank of captain. Captain was derived from the Late Latin word capitaneus (meaning "head man" or chief).

The commissioned officer assisting the captain with command of the company was the lieutenant. Lieutenant was derived from the French language; the lieu meaning "place" as in a position; and tenant meaning "holding" as in "holding a position"; thus a "lieutenant" is somebody who holds a position in the absence of his superior. When he was not assisting the captain, the lieutenant commanded a unit called a platoon, particularly a more specialized platoon. The word is derived from the 17th-century French peloton, meaning a small ball or small detachment of men, which came from pelote, a ball.

The commissioned officer carrying the (infantry) company's flag was the ensign. The word ensign was derived from the Latin word insignia. In cavalry companies the equivalent rank was cornet. In English usage, these ranks were merged into the single rank of second lieutenant in the 19th Century.

Not all officers received a commission from the king. Certain specialists were granted a warrant, certifying their expertise as craftsmen. These warrant officers assisted the commissioned officers but ranked above the non-commissioned officers. They received their authority from superior officers rather than the king. The first NCOs were the armed servants (men-at-arms) of the aristocracy, assigned to command, organize and train the militia units raised for battle. After years of commanding a squad, an NCO could be promoted to sergeant, the highest NCO rank. While a sergeant might have commanded a squad upon promotion, he usually became a staff officer. While commissioned staff officers assisted their commander with personnel, intelligence, operations and logistics, the sergeant was a jack of all trades, concerning himself with all aspects of administration to maintain the enlisted men serving under his commander. Over time, sergeants were differentiated into many ranks as various levels of sergeants were used by the commanders of various levels of units.

A corporal commanded a squad. Squad derived from the Italian word for a "square" or "block" of soldiers. In fact, corporal was derived from the Italian caporal de squadra (head of the squad). Corporals were assisted by lancepesades. Lancepesades were veteran soldiers; lancepesade was derived from the Italian "lancia spezzata" meaning broken spear—the broken spear being a metaphor for combat experience, where such an occurrence was likely. The first lancepesades were simply experienced privates; who either assisted their corporal or performed the duties of a corporal themselves. It was this second function that made armies increasingly regard their lancepesades as a grade of corporal rather than a grade of private. As a result, the rank of lance corporal was derived from combining lancepesade and corporal.

As the Middle Ages came to an end, kings increasingly relied on professional soldiers to fill the bottom ranks of their armies instead of militiamen. Each of these professionals began their careers as a private. The private was a man who signed a private contract with the company commander, offering his services in return for pay. The money was raised through taxation; those yeomen (smallholding peasants) who did not fulfill their annual 40-day militia service paid a tax that funded professional soldiers recruited from the yeomanry. This money was handed to the company commanders from the royal treasury, the company commanders using the money to recruit the troops.

Origins of higher ranks[edit]
As armies grew larger, composed of multiple companies, one captain was granted general (overall) authority over the field armies by the king. (National armies were the armies of the kings. Field armies were armies raised by the king to enter the battle field in preparation for major battles.) In French history, lieutenant du roi was a title borne by the officer sent with military powers to represent the king in certain provinces. A lieutenant du roi was sometimes known as a lieutenant général to distinguish him from lieutenants subordinate to mere captains. The sergeant acting as staff officer to the captain general was known as the sergeant major general. This was eventually shortened to major general, while captain general was shortened to simply general. This is the reason a major outranks a lieutenant, but a lieutenant general outranks a major general.

In modern times new recruits attending basic training, also referred to as boot camp by some branches, are instructed in the hierarchical structure of military rank. Many new enlisted civilians find it difficult to understand the structure of General staff ranks as stated before, it becomes somewhat complicated to understand when applying basic rationale. In view of this, recruits are taught the statement "Be My Little General." This is so that it makes it easier to learn which General outranks which. The rationale behind the statement is as follow: "Be" Brigadier General (1 star), "My" Major General (2 star), "Little" Lieutenant General (3 star), "General" General (4 star).

As armies grew bigger, heraldry and unit identification remained primarily a matter of the regiment. Brigades headed by brigadier generals were the units invented as a tactical unit by the Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus II ("Gustav II Adolf," who was killed at the battle of Lützen 1632). It was introduced to overcome the normal army structure, consisting of regiments. The so-called "brigada" was a mixed unit, comprising infantry, cavalry and normally artillery too, designated for a special task. The size of such "brigada" was a reinforced company up to two regiments. The "brigada" was a 17th-century form of the modern "task force". In some armies "brigadier general" has been shortened to "brigadier".

Around the end of the 16th century, companies were grouped into regiments. The officers commissioned to lead these regiments were called colonels (column officers). They were first appointed in Spain by King Ferdinand II of Aragon where they were also known as coronellos (crown officers) since they were appointed by the Crown. Thus the English pronunciation of the word colonel.[citation needed]

The first colonels were captains granted command of their regiments by commission of the king. The lieutenants of the colonel were the lieutenant colonels. In the 17th century, the sergeant of the colonel was the sergeant major. These were field officers, third in command of their regiments (after their colonels and lieutenant colonels), with a role similar to the older, army-level sergeants major (although obviously on a smaller scale). The older position became known as sergeant major general to distinguish it. Over time, the sergeant was dropped from both titles since both ranks were used for commissioned officers. This gave rise to the modern ranks of major and major general.

The full title of sergeant major fell out of use until the latter part of the 18th century, when it began to be applied to the senior non-commissioned officer of an infantry battalion or cavalry regiment.

Regiments were later split into battalions with a lieutenant colonel as a commanding officer and a major as an executive officer.

STANAG 2116

NATO standardization agreement (Edition 5) NATO codes for grades of military personnel Annexes : A. NATO Codes for Officer Personnel Army B. NATO Codes for Non-Officer Personnel Army

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 2:39 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:39:51 -0500

For the Navy (and thus, USCG), back in the good ole days of Britannia rule the waves...…
ok, so no Navy ships. King would "rent" merchant ships to go to war. An army Captain was in command of the military unit that was taken on board, while the ship's Master was the civilian who knew how to make the ships work. Eventually, when military personnel were permanently on board, and you had the nobility/officer to commoner/enlisted divide, the Master was also the Captain.

Landsmen=guys we just took off the shore, know nothing
Ordinary Seamen=eh, they can do ok stuff, like going up the masts without falling off
Able Seaman=guy's been around a while
Petty Officer=hmm, he actually knows what he's doing. let's put him in charge of things.
--BREAK BREAK--
Warrants=not commissioned, but we need a guy who knows this ship well, and we need a guy who can ________ and has technical knowledge in how to do stuff (surgeons, chaplains, etc).
Midshipmen=future officers, they can handle the watch or whatever we need a noble gentleman to do
--BREAK BREAK--
Lieutenants=ALL officers on the ship (except the CO). Might be one, might be six.
Commander=CO of a non-rated ship (not enough guns to be important)
Captain (and post-Captain)=CO of a rated ship (12-120 guns)
Commodore=admirals are important, and there are only a few of them, so senior captains commanding multiple ships are commodores
Rear Admiral=3rd leading admiral of a squadron
Vice Admiral=2nd leading admiral
Admiral=command of a squadron
Admiral of the Fleet=commands the Navy

to a LARGE degree, we still do this.

Seaman Recruit=guys we just took off the shore, know nothing
Seaman Apprentice/Seaman=learning how to do things, can do some basic things
Petty Officer=has passed tests that says he knows what he's doing, let's put him in charge of things.
Chief/Senior Chief/Master Chief=gotta have a top dog
--BREAK BREAK--
Warrants=we need a technical expert who knows this ship/job well
Midshipmen=hahahahahaha
--BREAK BREAK--
Ensign=actually does the same job as Midshipmen back in the day
Lieutenant (jg)/Lieutenant/Lieutenant Commander=junior officers, handle departments (note: the reason LCDRs don't wear scrambled eggs on their covers is they are a senior type of Lieutenant.....ok, so all officers aside from the CO were Lieutenants, from the newest guy to the 50 year old XO of the most powerful ships. Not fair to the XOs of capital ships, so we'll make them Lieutenants commanding/commandant, a "senior" type of Lieutenant)
Commander=1st command-grade officer
Captain=2nd command-grade officer (can be a Commodore)
Admirals=guys with stars and aides and desks and big ideas

Note: see how relatively little the enlisted side changed. that's why it was such a BIG DEAL that our rates were disestablished.

Also, Marines followed Army pattern, except that originally the highest guy was a Captain, and only then on large ships. Its when Marines detachments from multiple ships got together that you needed Majors and Lt.Colonels, with a Colonel-Commandant as the USMC Commandant.

Will gladly admit that I'm wrong if I got details incorrect. Teach history, and tried to do a decent study of my service branch.