Why after nearly 240 years, is 'all men are created equal' still a debatable topic?

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Fri, 20 May 2016 15:40:18 -0400

After numerous Civil Rights movements the people, especially those who claim to be constitutional/foundational loyalists, in America are still struggling with one of the first proclamations made by our founding fathers. The LGBT movement should not be necessary as it is covered by the D.O.I. and the Constitution. I find this to be disturbing, to say the least. What say you?

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made May 20 at 2016 3:42 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Fri, 20 May 2016 15:42:00 -0400

Can you clarify? Who exactly are you saying is "struggling" with the idea of all men being created equal?

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made May 20 at 2016 3:43 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Fri, 20 May 2016 15:43:14 -0400

Some people have nothing better to do than argue semantics. It is like the airman/seaman debate. Who cares really does it make a difference. Anyone with the intelligence promised a Twinkie understands that it is not literally man but people mankind. I think this debate is almost as retarded as the political correctness that is neutering this nation.

Response by SFC Jerry Humphries made May 20 at 2016 3:51 PM

SFC Jerry Humphries — Fri, 20 May 2016 15:51:18 -0400

Perhaps I can point out a two key words in the statement "Created Equal". This refers to an instant in time. After creation it up to you to become the best you can be or a failure. Our founders recognized that all of us as individuals were unique in our talents and failings. But after that instant of Creation it is up to the indivdual where his life leads.

Response by SGT David T. made May 20 at 2016 3:56 PM

SGT David T. — Fri, 20 May 2016 15:56:40 -0400

The equality provisions are not total equality in all things. The equality is referring that everyone is equal under the law and equal to pursue their own vision of the good life. Some laws were written that intentionally were unequal in how they treated different classes of people. Lawmakers brought in emotion and opinion into legislation instead of following principles outlined in the Declaration and the Constitution. A good example of this is the prohibitions against same sex marriages. Regardless of one's opinion on the matter it applied to a secular institution and as such those prohibitions violated the very principles we hold dear. Not only did those prohibitions violate the very notion of equality, but they violated the 1st amendment as well. It is sad that there needs to be civil rights movements because in theory, everyone should be covered in both the letter and the spirit of the founders' intent.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 4:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 16:34:10 -0400

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen, You have to remember women were subservient to their husbands back then and all the way up to the 20th century. Some still are subservient, or what you might call mental abused. Just my opinion. Good post.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 20 at 2016 4:35 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 20 May 2016 16:35:37 -0400

We are still a work in Progress.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 4:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 16:49:39 -0400

because those dudes back then were not feminine enough LOL

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 20 at 2016 5:13 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:13:00 -0400

When has it ever been "debatable"? Yes, I know there are those that debate it, but that doesn't mean that it's debatable. It simply means that those who debate against equality do not share an ideology that is compatible with the American ideal. Does that mean they're not true Americans? You decide...

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made May 20 at 2016 5:18 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:18:55 -0400

All people may have been created equal in the eyes of God but people are not equal mentally, physically or morally. If you discount God the idea of equality is simply a dream created by man.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made May 20 at 2016 5:44 PM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:44:58 -0400

Inherently we are only equal in the eyes of God. All of us were dealt different hands in life and some play their hands better. With that said equal opportunity should be sought for, but equal outcome will never happen as life isn't fair.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 20 at 2016 5:50 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:50:01 -0400

It's more of a hot topic.

Response by SPC Corbin Sayi made May 20 at 2016 6:10 PM

SPC Corbin Sayi — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:10:27 -0400

Just because specific groups claim to be for "equal rights," doesn't make that an honest assertion. Especially when they advocate for the lack of rights of others, or for special treatment (aka, unequal rights).

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 6:40 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:40:25 -0400

The Founders had very different notions of equality than we do. Only white men were considered full persons under the law. Hence the need for re-interpretation in the face of social change. However, the Founders do seem to have been aware of their shortcomings and drafted documents amenable to the kind of change we've seen over the years. So, while people do still argue passionately for and against full inclusion, the foundational principles established back then endure.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 20 at 2016 7:17 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 20 May 2016 19:17:43 -0400

I think the LGBT movement and its demands for civil rights is not about civil rights at all. It's about furthering the liberal agenda of fundamentally destroying the principles upon which the USA was founded. Being homosexual or bisexual or choosing to change ones gender are choices. There is no gene for these choices as there is for gender or race meaning these traits (gender and race) are passed on from parents to children without the children's input. Thus we are all truly created equal in the eyes of God who does not recognize gender or race in his justice, mercy, and grace.

Behavior is another matter entirely. Equal treatment based on behavioral decisions is not guaranteed by the Constitution. Behaviors that the founders wanted to promote, such as the free practice of religion, are protected in the constitution. Behaviors the citizens want to deter, such a murder, are punished under laws in the several states and the federal statutes. Fortunately the parts of the Constitution and state and Federal laws that discriminated against people because of gender or race have been fixed.

The "hate America First" people have tried to convert behaviors to civil rights to push an agenda that discredits the Constitution and the founding of the US. Their goal is to remake the country according to their socialist image destroying free enterprise and personal liberty in the process. Unfortunately they have held sway in the White House for the last 7+ years. God help us if they are given more years of executive power.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 20 at 2016 7:27 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Fri, 20 May 2016 19:27:11 -0400

I don't think it is a debate. It was something created which we did not follow.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made May 20 at 2016 9:48 PM

Capt Michael Greene — Fri, 20 May 2016 21:48:38 -0400

Many have conflated two completely different documents and phrases. "All...created equal" is a pronouncement to bolster the Founder's argument for Independence from England. But the important phrase is "no state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction "the equal protection of the laws" which is in the 14th Amendment. It is the highest law of the land, and is enforceable by the Feds.
Practically, it applies to all persons--not just citizens--within the jursidiction. If a cop could arrest you for anything, then you are in the juridication and the Equal Protection Clause applies.
Example: If the state builds a school in XYZ county, then ALL kids in the county can go to that school, including undocumented alien "illegals." They are persons within the jurisdiction, too.
Important today: You're right to say that Civil Rights Acts shouldn't be necessary. The states should have been treating people equally all along, including LGBTs. The bathroom bills are clearly discriminatory, and designed for the purpose of discouraging TG people from...existing!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 3:22 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 May 2016 15:22:45 -0400

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen Politically correct B.S.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made May 22 at 2016 9:56 AM

1LT William Clardy — Sun, 22 May 2016 09:56:26 -0400

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen, that oft-misunderstood bit of rhetoric from the Declaration of Independence was simply a declaration that all people are born with equal, inalienable rights. What each individual decides to do with those rights and whatever other talents and opportunities divine providence has given him or her will inevitably distinguish him or her from everybody else -- and no longer exactly equal, because we are each greater in some ways and lesser in others. Washington, Jefferson, and Arnold were not equals except in a very general sense. Would you really think of Martin Luther King as an equal of Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer?

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made May 23 at 2016 5:53 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Mon, 23 May 2016 05:53:37 -0400

Citizens United ended any hope of "all men are created equal" in America.

Response by SP5 Rod Cross made May 24 at 2016 1:32 PM

SP5 Rod Cross — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:32:22 -0400

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Response by SSG Donald Bramley made Sep 18 at 2023 12:04 AM

SSG Donald Bramley — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 00:04:19 -0400

Hold up, not so fast Rory, the LGBTQ+ movement IS, and WILL always be necessary "Sentinel", to stand down the intent, wherever, to challenge the EQUAL right to exist as in the Constitution of the United States of America.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Sep 18 at 2023 3:58 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:58:52 -0400

Perhaps because equal opportunities do not guarantee equal outcomes

Perhaps because equality is not the goal of any modern SJ activist

Perhaps because having been "created equal" in the eyes of the creator does not mean that everyone has identical abilities, talents, and interests.

Perhaps because victimhood has become a popular career choice