Why are soldiers being forced to promotion board?

2016-01-27T06:23:10-05:00

With most command teams, I know that some soldiers get told you are going to a promotion board even if you feel you are not ready. I believe that if a soldier wants to be promoted they will show me such actions encouraging me to send them. Thoughts?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 6:37 AM

2016-01-27T06:37:02-05:00

That's how it should be. Soldiers shouldn't be forced to go. If they want it they would show it and ask. But we as good leaders must know how to pick them and see who has true potential. I see too many soldiers get promoted to leaders and they lose their minds and go on a power hungry rampage and place a bad image on leaders who actually take care of soldiers.

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made Jan 27 at 2016 6:42 AM

2016-01-27T06:42:33-05:00

The Army is shitty at measuring personal and professional growth. It's even shittier at rewarding that growth. The only way to reward me for increasing my PT score by 50 points and earning a degree is with awards that are only useful as promotion points. Our pay grades are linked to our ranks. The only way to differentiate between a hard charging E-4 with leadership potential and a specialist that's simply meets all standards is to promote SPC #1 to SGT.

In my civilian job, once I increase m knowledge - say I was hired as a CCNA, but I earned my CCNP and maybe some specialized certs - I can go back to my boss and say "look at me. I've increased my knowledge. I've made myself more valuable to the team. I would like a pay raise." But the Army doesn't have that kind of system. There isn't a way to increase pay without increasing responsibility.

Conversely, its also seen as a huge detriment if you have soldiers that are comfortable and idling. As long as they're performing their mission to standards, I dont see why a soldier shouldn't be allowed to stay an E-5 til retirement. If he's good at his current job, why change anything? I certainly didn't earn my certs to demand more responsibility from my employer. I wanted more money, not a team of my own.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 7:38 AM

2016-01-27T07:38:01-05:00

The truth is that there are some damn fine E-4's out there. The ones I am talking about do not need to be promoted. They perform E-4 duties to the fullest. However, they do not have the bearing to be a good NCO. I am not disrespecting these individuals. Some realize that they only want to commit to a certain level. An NCO must be much more committed, especially in the Reserve Components, when a lot of activities do not get compensated.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-01-27T08:04:54-05:00

That's a tough one.
After reading some of the comments, I have to share one little "follower" piece of advice and then end it with the "leader" course of action, so to speak.
From an E-4 stand point, I had seen a few SGT's, who were well qualified in their minds and on paper, to be SGT's. But after a few years, the responsibility wore on them, and the BS of the National Guard took their toll as well. Their civilian careers became their only focus, where as, their Guard duties became a burden. I have also seen soldiers make E-5 before they seemed ready. They wanted it, proved themselves to the unit, and the soldiers around them. But in the end, it seemed like their only goal was to gain rank, thus more money or power. But not ready for the responsibility.
So, as a Newly established SGT, I have these experiences, and with some experience on the Air Force side (where most E-5's on the flightline have as much responsibility as an E-6 where I'm at now) I can more easily evaluate which of my troops require more training and evaluation and which show leadership potential but lack direction. And if I can assist in any of the categories they need help in, I will do so to the best of my abilities. If I can't, I'll learn how real quick or ask for help myself. Probably on here lol.
But I can't tell you why they're doing it. Sorry

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 9:49 AM

2016-01-27T09:49:31-05:00

For some leaders (after having sat through a few FY training briefings) some leaders are hurting in their metrics for leadership slots and are trying to plug those holes as best they can as fast as they can.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 27 at 2016 9:59 AM

2016-01-27T09:59:34-05:00

Sounds like a meet the quota type of situation if they are forcing soldiers to go to the promotion board.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 10:43 AM

2016-01-27T10:43:18-05:00

To answer your statement that you opened with. Once a Soldier is promoted to SPC or SGT and reaches TIG and TIS they should be getting a counseling monthly on why they are being recommended or why they are not be recommended to go to the promotion board. If the Soldier feels they are not ready, that can be put in the counseling with a statement of reassessing it the next month. If they are not ready, the issue for them not being ready needs to be addressed. If you as the leader feel they are not ready, you need to list what they need to do in order to get your recommendation.

Usually the issue that I have seen is that the team leader or squad leader have not done the proper counseling to not send the Soldier to the board. If there is no paperwork backing the reasons for not going, then the command is virtually forced to send a Soldier to the board once they reach TIG and TIS. When Soldiers find out they are eligible and the command is not sending them and have no paperwork to back it, the Soldier is quick to go to I.G., EO, or even a SHARP representative. This process is even harder under the National Guard and Reserve Soldiers because of the limited interaction between Soldiers. I recently was assigned to a Reserve unit and saw SPC and SGTs being recommended only because they met the TIG and TIS. We know this is the wrong answer. On the active side there is no excuse for this, only because people were lazy and didn’t do the right thing. The Reserve and National Guard use the excuse of not having the proper time because of limited time during drills and annual training. This also boils down to not doing the right thing. As SFC John Long said in his reply, “An NCO must be much more committed, especially in the Reserve Components”.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 11:36 AM

2016-01-27T11:36:16-05:00

They want those NUMBERS

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:01 PM

2016-01-27T12:01:12-05:00

way back in the day when I was in the Air Force reserves, I was promoted to TSgt against my will. In those days I was somewhat of a shammer and was perfectly happy being a SSgt and did not want the added responsibility that came with the promotion.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:13 PM

2016-01-27T12:13:01-05:00

Right now the Army is directing that all eligible Soldiers be boarded. I do not agree with this personally, but I don't have the option of choosing which orders to follow.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:24 PM

2016-01-27T12:24:21-05:00

I'm in the Reserves so my input might not apply for some cases but believe the problem is in what the desired strength of the Military is and who is available, in many units I've been in There are plenty of vacant NCO positions Soldiers may not feel ready, or may not be up to snuff, but it's the First Line Leaders job to coach, and develop them into what the unit needs, the alternative would be shutting units down and consolidating. I'm sure that's not always the case but it's what I've seen in certain areas.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 27 at 2016 12:34 PM

2016-01-27T12:34:32-05:00

As with lot of things in the Army, it's a numbers game I would imagine. That's my assumption. What bothers me isn't so much soldiers who may not feel as ready as they should be for promoted--maybe their leadership recognizes something in that soldier they themselves don't--but forcing those soldiers who expressly do not want promotion.

But who am I to say?

I was on the automatic promotion list after my 1st year but I worked with my chain-of-command to ensure I was NOT promoted when I knew (KNEW!) I wasn't ready-and they were happy to agree too! Having heard stories of soldiers who shouldn't be promoted or didn't want it, I should count myself lucky that my chain worked with me, and sent me to WLC and to the board when I was ready, not before...regardless of what "numbers" the Army was looking for.

Response by SPC Ryan D. made Jan 27 at 2016 1:13 PM

2016-01-27T13:13:16-05:00

To me, this question is only a piece of the larger conversation found in the below article.
Whether or not folks agree, not every single person who enlists in the military should become an NCO. The reality is, a large number are not, and will never be the type of people who should hold a leadership position. This is sadly all too easy to see when you look at our current military and the poor leadership that plagues it. To allow those people the ability to continue serving, but not as a leader, we should implement the old SPC ranking system.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/bring-back-the-specialist-rank

Bring back the Specialist rank? | RallyPoint

When I joined the Army we Specialist 4-6 (SP7 had just been discontinued). It provided those Soldiers who had technical expertise and experience the opportunity to progress and earn more pay. However they typically were not "green tab" leaders and were subordinate in rank to a "sergeant" of the same pay grade (SSG & SP6). I've often thought over the years that the Army deleted a program that brought added value to the organization by...

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 1:51 PM

2016-01-27T13:51:13-05:00

There are multiple answers to this question dependent on what compo. (Active USAR or ARNG) I think the answer depends on who exactly is forcing the Soldier. Everyone know that stuff rolls down hill. Sometimes battalion leadership puts pressure on company leadership basically stating you will provide Soldiers to attend both Soldeir of the month and promotion boards. This then trickles down to Platoon or Squad level. I don't agree with it but it happens. Especially if the are open vacancies. The company is getting any new Soldiers until our strength in certain tanks falls below a certain position. So we try our best to promote within rather than crossing our fingers that HRC is going to actually PCS an NCO into our organization.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 3:17 PM

2016-01-27T15:17:07-05:00

In my previous unit if you hit your tig tis to be elgible for promotion in the primary zone and your leadership had nothing on paper saying you should not be promoted you went to the promotion board. If you refused to go a bar was placed on you under the qmp for failure to progress. This actualy fixed a lot of problems with our soldiers lack of motivation and weeded u out the ncos that were only collecting a paycheck.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Jan 27 at 2016 5:29 PM

2016-01-27T17:29:11-05:00

Sometimes its a retention issue they fin a soldier almost ready to ets but they send soldier to board, soldier passes board and is promotable. They offer the promotion as part of a reup package. With the current stipulations of promote or ets and the forced downsizing. I'm not sure why they are sending mandatory boards. It would make more sense to send someone to the board that will re enlist. People want the educational benefits spend the first enlistment and get out. These are not your initial candidates for retention. Find the ones that enjoy the job that want to make a career of the military these are the candidates that you want to board

Response by SFC Steven Harvey made Jan 27 at 2016 10:32 PM

2016-01-27T22:32:28-05:00

All Soldiers are to be boarded unless there are justified reasons (i.e. Counselings) if CSM wants someone to go you better have legitimate reasons and a packet to go along with it or they are going and you'll have to take them.

I don't agree with it but that's the way it is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 12:31 PM

2016-01-30T12:31:48-05:00

I mean if you want to 'bag' the board, you could literally 'screw yourself over', but I don't think they are forcing anyone there. If the platoon leader, commander, etc see the potential in someone, he/she will get recommended. A good platoon leader can then take appropriate actions to get that soldier ready. But yall have to be proactive too...get all your ducks in a row and try to increase your points in every way you can.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 9:43 PM

2016-02-05T21:43:56-05:00

Probably because the army is chaptering e4 and above if they keep that rank for too long. They need new nco's and what not.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 12:34 AM

2016-02-08T00:34:02-05:00

It's a forced come-up or get out now because of the downsizing. It's basically the army's way of putting out a soldier without them doing anything wrong. If a commander circles "NO" three months in a row on the monthly reports, they can bar them from reenlistment, and recommend a chapter after the 90 day review if the soldier still isn't ready for the board. I don't like it, but this is unfortunately where we're headed.

Response by MAJ Mike Middleton made Mar 11 at 2021 5:22 PM

2021-03-11T17:22:03-05:00

When you are elegible: you should be seeking carrer progression. If you are counseled (which you should be)- what is the plan of action for your carrwr progression? Carrer progression should be covered in monthly counseling.