Why don't officers wear marksmanship badges?

2014-10-31T09:19:23-04:00

The day I turned my chevrons in for gold bars I noticed something. All the officers I've ever seen never wore marksmanship badges in dress uniforms. I just assumed they were unauthorized for officers and removed it voluntarily. I honestly never desired to wear the badge (probably because I was only ever a sharpshooter), but I haven't found any documentation specifically preventing officers from wearing them. Do you think officers should wear them?

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Oct 31 at 2014 9:47 AM

2014-10-31T09:47:24-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member There is no regulation that prohibits commissioned officers from wearing marksmanship badges, it is just a tradition that they don't. I don't know how or why that tradition started, but it is just one of those strange facts.

I have seen many officers wear them in the past and I have found that most of them who do are former enlisted or members of the reserve components.

Interesting question ... May have to do a little research on that one.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 9:50 AM

2014-10-31T09:50:22-04:00

I have heard that it's tradition that officers set the example of what right looks like, therefore it is supposed to be assumed that officers are expert marksmen because we set the example

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 10:21 AM

2014-10-31T10:21:07-04:00

I didn't know that most officers don't wear them. Here's what I would say though if I were an officer and it ever came up in conversation.

"I don't wear the marksmanship badges because my job isn't to shoot a rifle or pistol, my job is to lead soldiers and direct them where to shoot!"

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Oct 31 at 2014 10:53 AM

2014-10-31T10:53:49-04:00

A few points on officers and marksmanship badges.
- Authority to wear. No reg that I am aware of that prohibits officers from wearing marksmanship badges.
- Culture. Officer culture is not to wear markmanship badges.
- Logic 1. NCO domain is individual while officer domain is collective generally speaking. One reason why officers are armed with pistols rather than rifles is because our primary weapon is a radio and our primary purpose is to integrate and synchronize a fight (lead it) rather than to be an individual Soldier in the fight. This logic might be the driver on the culture that I note above.
- Logic 2. Tied to above but what good is officer who is an expert shooter but who can not provide purpose, motivation, and direction to his/her formation? Can/should officers be experts on the weapons and systems within their formations? Yes but their focus should be on integrating and synchronizing these weapons and systems. Enlisted and NCOs should be the experts on the individual weapon or systems employment.

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 31 at 2014 11:28 AM

2014-10-31T11:28:45-04:00

While given a sidearm an officer's primary weapon of choice is leadership. Not sure how you qualify with that. Not to say NCO's don't offer leadership it just that it is more local in scope while an officer is more global in scope. Or another way to look at it is a NCO is focused on what the unit is doing while the officer is focused on what command is doing.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Oct 31 at 2014 12:21 PM

2014-10-31T12:21:16-04:00

Generally speaking it is assumed that Officers will already be experts and as such the display of it is unnecessary. This isn't the case with all units but in all the line companies I was in and even in the Heavy Weapons company at the 10th Mountain all the officers shot expert. In my first platoon I was the worst shot at 36. We even had a competition put on by General Townsend and my Weapons Company at the time outshot all other companies in the division. There is no specific regulation that I know of that prevents an Officer from wearing it however, so if you desire to do so go nuts. Just expect the occasional head swivel here and there.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 12:45 PM

2014-10-31T12:45:47-04:00

I had the same question LT Gillespie did when I turned to the dark side. The way it was explained to me by my former XO was that we don't wear it because we are expected to be experts in all fields to include marksmanship, how else are we supposed to train our men if we our selfs aren't fully qualified. General Miller, fort Benning CG, in one of his 20 LPDs with us made it a point to say that every infantry officer will quallify expert prior to PCSing to their respective units, to not only break the stigma of officers inability to quallify but to also promote my previous statement of technical knowledge to put in our tool bag.

Response by CPT Karen Nichols McAbee made Oct 31 at 2014 1:04 PM

2014-10-31T13:04:02-04:00

I wore mine, but I earned them when I was enlisted.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 3:34 PM

2014-10-31T15:34:58-04:00

The philosophy seems to stem from two schools of thought:

1. an Officer's primary role in combat is not to fight, but to manage the firepower under his charge. Part of this responsibility requires rapid movement between positions and locations, which makes firing (and even simply carrying) a firearm a secondary measure.

2. an Officer is expected to be a master of everything that occurs in a unit; he appoints NCOs to train and mentor, and expects junior officers to also attend that training... the assumption however is that Officers become experts because they are trained by NCOs, and since they're considered "experts by default", the badge is not necessary.

Personally, I don't see the point either way. I've noticed plenty of people (especially seniors) who don't even perform APFT events to standard... probably not the best strategy to have more things on the uniform when we need to focus on the standards in question.

Response by CPT Steven Harder made Nov 1 at 2014 1:39 PM

2014-11-01T13:39:37-04:00

I never thought about it . . . but, the only marksmanship badge I wore on my uniform was the EIC Pistol badge.

I know if I had worn any others, my Expert badge would have had a long ladder and just wouldn't have looked right. I also know that a vast majority of the NCO's I knew, only had 1-3 bars under a badge and whether they wore one or 3 badges, it still looks nice.

One thing that sticks in my mind is, Officers, especially INF Officers, have more ability to qualify on the various weapons systems, then do Enlisted. That may also be a reason that Officers don't wear the typical marksmanship badges.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 6:52 PM

2014-11-02T18:52:22-05:00

In our Stars and Stripes column on military trivia, we could not find any regulation prohibiting it; many officers related it was a tradition they learned at OCS and Officer Basic Courses....because most officers after WWII are issued pistols (when there are enough in the supply system). We did find photos of officers in WWI and WWII wearing marksmanship medals in Class A uniform, anda few with special marksmanship medals (such as Olympians).

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Nov 2 at 2014 8:39 PM

2014-11-02T20:39:47-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, it's the same reason that commissioned officers do not receive Good Conduct Medals -- the presumption is that our conduct should always be exemplary.

Likewise, it would be unbecoming for a gentleman (or lady) to brag about achieving a mandatory minimal standard.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 12:30 AM

2014-11-03T00:30:34-05:00

Is this custom followed by the Warrant Officer community?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 16 at 2014 2:36 PM

2014-12-16T14:36:15-05:00

It's not in any regs, but it's an Army officer custom thing. Just like not having facial hair and 2LTs not saluting 1LTs.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 17 at 2014 9:40 PM

2014-12-17T21:40:25-05:00

I do have to give props to SSG Saunders, whose uniform was pictured above. An E-6 rocking a LOM is pretty high speed!

Response by MSG David Rogers III made Jul 16 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-07-16T17:42:09-04:00

I believe they should wear them. If you look at old photo prior to the 80s, many wear them. I even saw many photos of Generals wearing them back in WWII. But, in the 80s, the culture did change, and Officers were discouraged from wearing them.
True, there is nothing in the regulations about this. But interesting note. If you look into the authorized Foreign Badges, you will see that the German Marksmanship Badges (Schuetzenschnur) is tagged with "Officer see Note 1", in which you may accept but not wear the award.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Jul 7 at 2016 4:34 PM

2016-07-07T16:34:16-04:00

Before my enlistment in the Army, I served in the Marine Corps. The Corps has a principle that every Marine, regardless of rank or MOS, is first and foremost a rifleman. That principle of universality of primary duty extends all the way to the Commandant of the Marine Corps, who shows the way by firing for qualification with all the other Marines under his command.
After my appointment as a Warrant Officer in the Army, I continued the tradition of the Corps, and wore my rifle and pistol badges proudly. I could not help but think that my fellow officers were either non-qualifiers, or ashamed of their low level of skill with the primary tools of our Military.

Response by PO3 Leroy Leftwich made Jul 10 at 2016 4:13 PM

2016-07-10T16:13:55-04:00

Only if earned.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 4:19 PM

2016-07-10T16:19:51-04:00

A better questions is why does anyone wear a marksmanship badge?

Response by CPT Michael Murphy made Jul 10 at 2016 4:36 PM

2016-07-10T16:36:33-04:00

I shot expert with every weapon I shot for qualification as an Army officer. That was 50 years ago. I still shoot that way and I'm an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor and Range Safety Officer today. Back then, officers were discouraged from wearing marksmanship badges because shooting was not what we were to do expect in self-defense. As a "1542" small unit officer infantry leader our fingers were supposed to me on maps and radio handsets, not triggers. That is why we did not wear those badges.

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Jul 10 at 2016 4:42 PM

2016-07-10T16:42:34-04:00

I suppose it started with someone who just couldn't hit more than 23 pop ups, and didn't want to wear the 'iron cross of shame' when everyone else shot expert. At any rate officers are managers. Even when armed with a rifle they are tasked with directing the battle.

I have had officers show up at EIC matches because they wanted to wear something marksmanship related on their uniforms. The EIC is a permanent award with orders cut from the AMU at Ft Benning so you earn it once you own it.

Response by CSM Michael Sweeney made Jul 10 at 2016 7:03 PM

2016-07-10T19:03:30-04:00

I can't believe I spent 40 years directly with the Army and never noticed that particular officer custom with the badges. I did notice the no facial hair. When I became a CSM I was gently told that perhaps I should discard my mustache, but I never did. I was a strong believer in displaying what was authorized. I was kind of friendly with some senior officers toward the end of my career, but never was curious enough to ask any why the unwritten rules.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 7:46 PM

2016-07-10T19:46:22-04:00

I'm seeing a lot of comments that range from "we're experts in everything" to "if we have to pick up a weapon, we're doing something wrong". Also, a lot of people have mentioned regulation vs. culture.

Yes, regulation states if you're awarded it you can wear it, there is no mention of rank. Yes, the culture is that no one wears it (including in DA Photos). You are in violation of no policy that I know of by wearing your marksmanship badges as an officer.

We are not experts in everything. It is my opinion that we are to be "jacks/jills of all trades." The only exceptions to that are the specialty branches (JAG, AV, Medical, etc.). It is true that we are leaders/managers, but if we weren't intended to fire anything short of a pistol, combat arms units wouldn't have a carbine for every officer in the battalion, including the battalion commander (except the field surgeon and physician's assistant). Now... if you're a Combat Service Support officer, I suppose something is wrong if you're picking up a weapon, but you never know.

There's also mention of wearing badges because of award in other services, and I would point those people to AR 670-1, 22-12c "...Marksmanship badges from other U.S. Services are not authorized for wear on the Army uniform."

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 7:54 PM

2016-07-10T19:54:24-04:00

Officers don't carry a rifle and just a pistol? Funny, I sure as hell don't remember that while leading my Platoon in Iraq. I lead and fought at the same time, guess it was because I was an NCO prior to becoming an Officer. These generic Officer responses on here is one reason why the Army can't retain good leaders any longer and why most get the hell out after making Captain, like myself.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jul 10 at 2016 8:33 PM

2016-07-10T20:33:03-04:00

the reason officers carry pistols is to shoot their own men in the back if they try to run away - that's why the Redcoats wore red coats - Cal Guard set up EIB/EFMB program one summer, as a Nat'l Guard Civil Service Technician with EFMB from my time with the 82d, made a snide comment the officers should have EIB to hold their jobs, my boss was kinda outraged that I suggested that he wasn't an expert - years later(04) a friendly insult to him about he should have been in a high speed Transportation Unit so he could have gone to Iraq, instead of a scum-of-the-earth Infantry with SLICK-SLEEVES!!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 8:58 PM

2016-07-10T20:58:28-04:00

Yes I am a retired medical officer and hospital commander I took pride in going to the range and
qualifying like my soldiers

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 10:59 AM

2016-07-11T10:59:31-04:00

I've always had the suspicion that the tradition started with a high ranking officer who couldn't shoot. Personally I think the tradition is silly at best. While the fight has to be going badly for me to shoulder my rifle, Officers are still Soldiers. Wouldn't you rather know your Commander can shoot if the shit hits the fan?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 11:19 AM

2016-07-11T11:19:55-04:00

I see this as being an additional disconnect between Officers and Enlisted. The bottom line is that we are all Soldiers and the badges represent the maintaining of our Soldier skills.
Perhaps it is time to break the recent tradition of Officers not wearing the skill badges that we have all earned as one Army.

Response by LTC Tom Barbeau made Jul 11 at 2016 11:55 AM

2016-07-11T11:55:12-04:00

I always wore mine as did most of the officers in my units, and also a moustache my entire career. Neither caused any problems for me, and I enjoyed giving back the grief to the occasional SGM that said something about the mustache. Too many officers are more concerned with everything that doesn't matter and less concerned about being competent.

Response by Cpl Debbie Dave LaVallie made Jul 11 at 2016 11:59 AM

2016-07-11T11:59:07-04:00

Of course this is an Army perspective, the Marine Corps takes a much different view of the matter. A Marine officer is expected to extoll the same warrior virtues as the enlisted Marines he leads. Even wing wipers are motivated to exhibit proficiency with the basic weapons, different culture.

Response by SSG Lucas Velez made Jul 11 at 2016 12:34 PM

2016-07-11T12:34:09-04:00

LOM on an E-6. That is fucking high speed !!! But he is a Ranger so he has high standards too !!

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Jul 11 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-07-11T14:14:58-04:00

If they are authorized to wear them then yes.

Response by CPL Freddy Travaglia made Jul 11 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-07-11T15:19:27-04:00

why not if they earn them.my cousin was a colonel in the air force and in the infantry in ww2.He worn his C I B.

Response by SSG Miguel Sanchez made Jul 11 at 2016 7:11 PM

2016-07-11T19:11:52-04:00

Am I the only one wigging out that SSG Saunders in the picture doesn't have a campaign star on his ICM....

Response by 1LT Gerald O'Hare made Jul 11 at 2016 11:51 PM

2016-07-11T23:51:41-04:00

It is tradition in the Officers Corps not to wear them and I never did.

Response by LtCol Mac McCarty made Jul 12 at 2016 12:15 AM

2016-07-12T00:15:14-04:00

I don't even know how to respond to this. Sounds to me like a lot of "I can't do it, and I don't want any officers who can to show me up for what I am--just a guy in a pretty soldier suit wearing a bunch of pretty patches." How can a leader look a soldier in the eye? Every Marine has a right to know if his officers can perform the single most important task of the warrior--kill the enemy with everything from bare hands to nukes, but especially aimed, killing rifle fire at maximum range. It is just one more of those things that we all do together that makes us Marines.

Response by SFC Jimmy Phillips made Jul 12 at 2016 12:29 AM

2016-07-12T00:29:50-04:00

Just another form of arrogance.

Response by SGT Steve Davis made Jul 12 at 2016 2:08 AM

2016-07-12T02:08:39-04:00

Obviously yall are the same pos's that I had in my time!!! Learn how to shoot you fuck head!!! Don't expect your 12. 6. 3. 9. To have piece shit

Response by COL R. Bruce Chisholm made Jul 12 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-07-12T08:04:13-04:00

The badges get caught on the Sam Browne belt.

Also, they are hard to align if you have more than one as they are different sized. Lieutenants were known to spend hours with a ruler trying to line up expert, sharpshooter and marksman. To save time, Lieutenants were forbidden to own rulers, thus officers don't wear marksmanship badges.

Response by COL James Pittman made Jul 12 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-07-12T09:01:19-04:00

In answer to the original question, they do-but not all. There is no prohibition on any soldier wearing a marksmanship badge as long as they are currently qualified with their weapon. That some choose not to is personal choice. However, your uniform and all you are authorized to wear on it serves two purposes; it provides a picture, or a story if you will of where that solider has been, what he has accomplished, and what he has earned in terms of awards and decorations. Your official photo should depict ALL of these things, and I have sat on promotion boards where questions were asked as to why a particular badge or medal that was on the ORB was NOT on the picture. Your awards etc. are part of your uniform; some. nobody will miss or question like a Marksman Badge, others WILL be missed by those who put you in for them or those who know you have earned them but choose not to wear them. You are essentially Out of Uniform. One of the biggest ass-chewings I ever got was from a General who knew I had 8 rows of riibbons and 5 US and 4 foreign badges and showed up at a social function wearing 3 US badges and my top 3 decorations. Not good. Best advice - if yoiu're earned it - wear it - and correctly!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 9:17 AM

2016-07-12T09:17:08-04:00

It was explained to me that officers are not to present themselves as superior nor inferior to the Soldiers there are leading. Therefore, marksmanship badges are not worn. The expectation is that officers can shoot, but their ability to lead is not tied directly to their shooting ability. A sharpshooter badge may lower the confidence others have in the officer. As officers we always strive to exceed the standard, and it is expected we do, from shooting to physical fitness, but that we don't flaunt it.

Response by SGT Norman Cordova made Jul 12 at 2016 9:22 AM

2016-07-12T09:22:34-04:00

i feel that if you earned the badge or badges then you should wear it on your uniform. be proud of what you accomplished in the military. i've earned numerous badges and ribbons during my 24 years of military service and i proudly display them on my uniform and in my self-made shadow box i having hanging on the wall in our family den,

Response by CPT John House made Jul 12 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-07-12T10:40:01-04:00

I was such a lousy marksman the instructor told me just to carry one bullet for myself.

Response by Sgt William Themann made Jul 12 at 2016 10:54 AM

2016-07-12T10:54:03-04:00

You earned you wear it! Or is that over simplifying?

Response by CPT Joseph Justice made Jul 12 at 2016 10:56 AM

2016-07-12T10:56:35-04:00

we've been at war for 15 years and that's all you guys have to cry about (green to gold officer speaking here)

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 11:14 AM

2016-07-12T11:14:28-04:00

One more thing to position incorrectly! haha (And pay for...)

Response by LTC William del Solar made Jul 12 at 2016 11:17 AM

2016-07-12T11:17:36-04:00

Just tradition. Who knows why it started? Because some new 2LT couldn't shoot expert or could get everything lined up right? Or because his commander told him/her that you are expected to be an expert in leading and managing your Soldiers and the chaos of the battlefield and not to wear marksmanship badges.

The real question is what does to mean to others superiors, peers, and subordinates? Looking back at my transition from enlisted through OCS to commissioning, I had the same question. My assumption (being IN) was that the standard for officers is to shoot expert, score 300 on the PT test, and be an expert in all facets of your job. Lead the way. Set the example. Unfortunately, it seems we have gotten away from officers being technical experts. Not their fault. The Army gets what it wants. When there is one year between deployments and/or the leadership is stripped out to do advise and assist missions - expertise like we used to have is lost. Can they be worn -yes. Should they be worn - you decide what is appropriate. I just hope that you are an expert. MG Miller's goal mentioned by 2LT Mayo below is a great goal. But it needs to be approached with caution. If the requirement is for everyone to be an expert. Then everyone will be an expert, no matter what it takes. Remember the pencil qualifications? And STRAC gets a vote too.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 11:19 AM

2016-07-12T11:19:13-04:00

I would love to hear the story behind the LOM. His NCOPDR doesn't have a numeral, so I doubt he was busted down from CSM. I've heard of PVTs getting MSMs, but I've only witnessed very senior leaders earning a LOM.

Response by CPL James Mellar made Jul 12 at 2016 11:44 AM

2016-07-12T11:44:31-04:00

I think an officer is not only there to lead, but also to inspire confidence in his or her enlisted soldiers, and showing capabilities lesser than one's soldiers could undercut that inspiration. Let's just say the officer was proficient in all of his marksmanship skills, should he wear those medals and make other officers look bad? I think not. We are a military that works as a team; sure, we advance on individual ability, but we won't retreat by undercutting other's shortcomings.

Response by LTC Tom Jones made Jul 12 at 2016 12:00 PM

2016-07-12T12:00:50-04:00

Drafted and trained in tanks (M-48's) at Fort Knox; D-3-1 beginning in the late summer of '67. First Saturday morning inspection was performed by our Brigade Commander whose Expert Badge displayed a "ladder" which extended from this khaki shirt pocket to his belt. Granted, he was not a tall man but this guy could obviously get it done with everything from the Bayonet to the M-60 Main Battle Tank or, at least, that's the impression we all had.

Response by Maj Sharon Malone made Jul 12 at 2016 12:01 PM

2016-07-12T12:01:20-04:00

They do in the Marine Corps

Response by PVT Paul Vary made Jul 12 at 2016 12:07 PM

2016-07-12T12:07:44-04:00

I would ask questions of the chain of command to see if there are any regs against the wearing of the marksman medal

Response by SFC Don Ward made Jul 12 at 2016 12:10 PM

2016-07-12T12:10:42-04:00

It's a confidence issue. What Troop would feel confident of an officer with a BOLO badge for marksmanship? Would you want a commander that it was evident couldn't fire his weapon??

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Jul 12 at 2016 12:12 PM

2016-07-12T12:12:20-04:00

I do believe it is because most officers cannot shoot so rather than having to explain a marksman badge to the private who nailed a 40 out of 40 on the last range, you just do not wear them. At least that is the story I tell at the range after qualifying expert so I do what I can to motivate the officers in my unit to qualify on their third or fourth attempt. Motivation is important.

Response by LTC Matthew Robinson made Jul 12 at 2016 12:22 PM

2016-07-12T12:22:43-04:00

It is a culture thing, not a regulatory thing. When I was enlisted I always wore mine and sported a mustache periodically. As an officer, I never wore mine, but still sported a mustache periodically. I occasionally ran afoul of a curmudgeonly CSM or SGM; however, nothing that impeded my ability to lead soldiers.

Response by 1SG Terrence Valenti made Jul 12 at 2016 12:36 PM

2016-07-12T12:36:11-04:00

It is a qualification Badge is it not? All soldiers regardless of rank should be allowed to wear qualification badges...if they have earned them.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 12:41 PM

2016-07-12T12:41:59-04:00

I know officers don't wear them. But I think they should. Technically, my understanding of Army Regs is that the regulations say if you've earned an award, you're required to wear it... so by choosing not to, wouldn't you be in violation of regulations as an officer? Also, the idea of "I don't wear my IMB because I'm supposed to be leading you, not shooting" doesn't fly with me. It's sort of like telling tall tales. "I'm an expert...I just don't have a way to show it on my uniform. But check out my Call of Duty & MOH scores online, Bruh."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 12:55 PM

2016-07-12T12:55:07-04:00

When I came in in 1977, we were told in the basic course that officers don't wear qualification badges because all officers are expected to be qualified with their weapon. In ROTC before that none of our officer cadre wore them either. Even when Infantry Branch Assignment officers at MILPERCEN (I think it's HRC now, but not sure) reviewed your photo for promotion boards, they never said to put a qualification badge on. i never saw a single Army officer in 22 years wear one.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jul 12 at 2016 1:15 PM

2016-07-12T13:15:14-04:00

I'll take a good officer that can't shoot over one that can shoot, but can't lead.

Response by COL Keith Geiger made Jul 12 at 2016 1:50 PM

2016-07-12T13:50:57-04:00

No. Its tradition not to wear them.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 12 at 2016 2:11 PM

2016-07-12T14:11:55-04:00

A year later: The rule of Common Sense!

Response by Cpl Dan A. made Jul 12 at 2016 2:17 PM

2016-07-12T14:17:41-04:00

My Marine officers did wear them. On a side note, every Marine from our cooks to our Scout Snipers and privates to Generals have to put rounds in the black at 500 yards with open sights just to become Marines in the first place.

Response by Sgt Roger Hornbuckle made Jul 12 at 2016 2:30 PM

2016-07-12T14:30:11-04:00

After reading all this babble, I am so glad that I am a Marine!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 2:40 PM

2016-07-12T14:40:46-04:00

So I do agree with the COL Jason Smallfield. We as officers should led from the front and are expected to do so. The actions of a good leader are reflected by the quality of their followers. Wearing badges and pursuing awards doesn't make you a better leader.

Response by Maj Ken Brown made Jul 12 at 2016 3:24 PM

2016-07-12T15:24:50-04:00

Marine officers lead by example. Most of us were expert with both pistol and rifle. It ain't braggin' if you can really do it. By the way, we approached physical fitness standards in the same manner. If you couldn't max out the PFT, there must have been something wrong with you.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 12 at 2016 3:40 PM

2016-07-12T15:40:23-04:00

Traditionally - In the 1920s:
1. It was a soldiers task, not one for an officer, since officer's had the pistol, the sword and horsemanship (except in the Cavalry).
2. Army leaders considered that soldiers needed something that was strictly 'their own'.
3. Officers were lousy shots :D just kidding.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 12 at 2016 3:46 PM

2016-07-12T15:46:26-04:00

Regardless of branch or rank everyone should be proficient. We spent two weeks a year on the range qualifying, and IMO that's still not enough. Even live firing for a week isn't close to satisfactory, especially for combat MOS. Its a shame really.

Response by SPC Maurice Tillman made Jul 12 at 2016 3:57 PM

2016-07-12T15:57:41-04:00

It's not really their job to shoot anything. They manage resources and are administrators.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Stone made Jul 12 at 2016 4:01 PM

2016-07-12T16:01:39-04:00

I think Marksmanship badges are stupid. I hated wearing the silly thing. Everyone should qualify Expert. Those that don't should stay on the range until they do. How can any soldier not be a expert and still have self respect? Maybe we need less sensitivity training and more combat skill training? Even a cook ,truck driver ,supply guy , Medic, ect should be Expert with a rifle and pistol. for some it is easy but it is not that difficult to keep training till you are Expert. The military should encourage troops to go shooting recreationally.

Response by MSgt Bill Loveli made Jul 12 at 2016 4:02 PM

2016-07-12T16:02:33-04:00

Marine Corps uniform regulations require Marines to display all decorations and awards to which they are entitled

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Jul 12 at 2016 4:27 PM

2016-07-12T16:27:44-04:00

First, Congrats on your Promotion. I had never even noticed that, but now that you have brought it up, I can't recall seeing any officers wearing them. They did wear the CIB though. Maybe they were bad shots and never qualified ? LOL. You got yours as an Enlisted man.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 4:30 PM

2016-07-12T16:30:03-04:00

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the picture supplied on this post is all jacked up. especially the marksmanship badges which is what this post is about.

Response by Sgt Gabriel Benavides made Jul 12 at 2016 4:38 PM

2016-07-12T16:38:02-04:00

I still get confused at all the badges, ribbons and cords is required in the Army uniform. I enjoyed the fact that in the Marines we were only required to wear unit awards. Personal decorations were not mandatory. So, in my opinion simplicity is always best.

Response by CW4 Edmund Parowski made Jul 12 at 2016 5:07 PM

2016-07-12T17:07:07-04:00

They want to avoid the embarrassment of everyone seeing that their enlisted troops shoot better than they do, especially when they don't do anything particularly well. But, yeah..let's call it tradition.

Response by SFC Rick H made Jul 12 at 2016 5:20 PM

2016-07-12T17:20:38-04:00

Yes, I think they should wear them like everyone else- tells me if he/she can or cannot hit what they hell they are shooting at and how often...

Response by CSM George DeSario made Jul 12 at 2016 5:33 PM

2016-07-12T17:33:15-04:00

one of the main reasons the army is not serious about small arms training or qualification.
Make Officers where the badge and watch how training and the flow of bullets start coming

Response by MAJ Jimmy M. made Jul 12 at 2016 6:14 PM

2016-07-12T18:14:06-04:00

I wore mine. But I was enlisted nine years before I was commissioned. So, I had expert pistol, rifle, and M60. I took the machine gun off because it had been quite some time since I fired it, much less qualified on it.
It is my opinion that the reason officers don't wear them is because they are embarrassed.

Response by SFC Christopher Van Loon made Jul 12 at 2016 6:38 PM

2016-07-12T18:38:27-04:00

Because they don't want to wear them. It is as simple as that. AR 670-1 and DA Pam 670-1 require marksmanship badges to be worn.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 6:46 PM

2016-07-12T18:46:04-04:00

Great question, as a direct commissioned officer, when I first qualified with the AR15 and 9mm, I was pissed to learn this cultural, or Enlisted vs Officer weapons and all. Such a b.s., have been carrying both weapons down range in all of my 3 deployments and they are both part of any military rank when you deploy. With that said, when shit hits the fan off the wire, i feel really sorry for those officers that are not carrying the AR15....I would wear the badges proudly if I could. This madness has to stop...lol

Response by SSG James Bigbie made Jul 12 at 2016 6:58 PM

2016-07-12T18:58:18-04:00

When I was in, officers never went to the range unless it was Tank or Bradley gunnery. Ranges were considered NCO business.

Response by CW2 Guy Compton made Jul 12 at 2016 7:19 PM

2016-07-12T19:19:50-04:00

But officers (at least in SF) have to qualify with their assigned weapons. On more than one occasion I saw officers repeatedly fail to qualify expert until after multiple iterations (I'm talking 5 or more). You can rationalize all you want but your NCOS will know.

Response by MAJ Brad Herzog made Jul 12 at 2016 7:46 PM

2016-07-12T19:46:46-04:00

I always thought that officers not wearing weapons skill badges was a mistake by the Army in general. The points made about "the officers job is to lead not fire his weapon" is hollow and sounds like some kind of stuffy British Army bs. The Army talks warrior culture doesn't follow through. Infantry, Rangers, and SF officers fight, shoot AND communicate. Combat is a full contact event, not some neat tidy white paper theory. Shooting skill is no indication of officer ability, no more than how shiny your boots are, how short your hair is, or how fast you run. But soldiers like to know their leaders have skills they can see. And shooting skill is one that can be displayed with the shooting badges. Good on MG Miller to emphasize shooting proficiency for the new Infantry LT's. I'll note that MG Miller is a former Delta commander and understands the value of shooting skill by all members of the team. The Army, and especially the combat arms branches, would be well served to emulate the USMC model that every one is fundamentally a rifleman work forward from that point. To answer the original question No, there is no regulation prohibiting officers wearing shooting badges they are qualified for. I for one encourage it. After all "It ain't bragging if you can do it!"
Brad Herzog
SF, ret.

Response by SPC Lynn Rogers made Jul 12 at 2016 7:47 PM

2016-07-12T19:47:18-04:00

My father earned his marksman, parachute, glider and CIB while he was Enlisted, after becoming a Warrant Officer W-3 he still wore all badges that he earned. If you earned them wear them Proudly! I did!

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 12 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-07-12T19:56:01-04:00

Maybe, the "O" that thought that up Just could not shoot, just like I think that the "O" that made it a capitol offense to have a bears just probably could not grow a beard and was jealous. OR I might be wrong, No I think I am right...It goes back a ways, perhaps a good academic project for the leadership department of IOBC to look it up

Response by SFC Patrick Vaughn made Jul 12 at 2016 8:32 PM

2016-07-12T20:32:28-04:00

I believe ALL military personnel according to AR 670-1 are required to wear all awarded badges, ribbons, and etc. no one is exempt, unless you are no current with your rifle. if your not current with your weapon then you must be in a none line unit or staff position.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 8:40 PM

2016-07-12T20:40:43-04:00

The regulation states that all Soldiers, with the exception of certain GO's, should wear the Marksmanship badge. Shortly after becoming a new officer and being a former MSG I had this discussion with my branch manager. ...after a good round of "show me the reg".....the MAJ pointed out one fact.....the senior GENTLEMEN that look at you for promotion have all given to this way of thinking.....the badge came off, at least for my DA photo.

Response by COL Michael Birchfield made Jul 12 at 2016 8:54 PM

2016-07-12T20:54:35-04:00

No question about the marksmanship badge. Just wondering the circumstances why highly decorated SSG Saunders pictured is not wearing jump wings, yet has a 75th Regt affiliation crest. I know one can go to ranger school and not be airborne qualified.

Response by COL Michael Freville made Jul 12 at 2016 9:21 PM

2016-07-12T21:21:08-04:00

I served for 30 years and when I first joined I was told the reason was that it was an assumption that all officers shot expert. Even though we all know they don't! It must be tradition. Officers who are prior enlisted are allowed to wear their marksmanship badges.
M Freville, COL (Ret.)

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Jul 12 at 2016 9:56 PM

2016-07-12T21:56:34-04:00

I suspect somewhere along the line were not as proficient as the soldiers they led and were embarrassed by that fact and quit wearing them. I wore mine as an ROTC SMP Cadet where I shot Expert (which I did almost everytime in my career) but was encouraged to remove it at my graduation from FAOBC

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 10:04 PM

2016-07-12T22:04:12-04:00

This discussion should never started. Officers and Enlisted alike most read and know the regulations. This is clearly stated in AR 670-1 for all members of the US Army. Is unprofessional that officers start this type of discussion online. If you don't know read, you should know how to and if not please ask an NCO, he or she should, must know. Marksmanship Badges are authorized for all Soldiers, however is not mandatory to wear the badge.

Response by MAJ Hugo B. Adelson made Jul 12 at 2016 10:41 PM

2016-07-12T22:41:19-04:00

As a retired Infantry Officer, I wore the US Army Distinguished Rifleman Badge and Presidents 100 Tab proudly. Officers command and NCO lead, but Officers set the example and when needed lead. There was not a weapon that I did not qualify Expert and set the example and bar for achievable goal.

Response by SGT Olan Aldrich made Jul 12 at 2016 10:47 PM

2016-07-12T22:47:39-04:00

Last thing I knew is an officer could not hit the broad side of the barn if they were even standing right next to it with their pistol. Maybe with a pen or pencil they could though, surprised they don't have qualifying badges for that.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 11:25 PM

2016-07-12T23:25:23-04:00

Officers don't wear marksmanship badges.... This is NOT in the regulations. In fact the regulations show proper placement of the marksmanship badges using an officer wearing them as the example. I once had a COL tell me that I should not wear mine. I told him that it was not regulation. He stated, "well that might be, but officers just don't wear them." I responded that "Most officers don't shoot as well as I do." Then I realized that my weight as a 2nd LT who knew the regs and was a competitive shooter had reached its limit. Point is, "A Soldier that can't shoot, isn't..." We should be experts in whatever we can be, and strive to be better in those that we are not. I am a competitive shooter for the USAR Competitive Marksmanship Team, and it is vital that we train others in our skill set and help them to advance themselves. I am a distinguished pistol badge holder, distinguished .22 pistol, distinguished revolver and halfway to my distinguished rifle badge. Go out and learn how to shoot, and be proud of your accomplishments, and then help others become proficient in their arms.

Response by COL John Hudson made Jul 12 at 2016 11:35 PM

2016-07-12T23:35:37-04:00

From the IG Desk: The local Commander directs uniform wear including accolade display. Most often, this is mission directed. In full combat, one doesn't want to take the field appearing as if a battery operated neon sign were flashing. There in no reg. to my knowledge acting to bar wear of any marksmanship badge by any officer. There may be local Command directive, but I've never seen that. I am proud of my weapons skills. As both Enlisted, Warrant, and Commissioned, I have fired "EXPERT" on every weapon given to me by the U.S. Army, including helicopter gunships (in flight school). My father introduced me and my three brothers to a match-rifle when I was 10 years old...safety, sighting, shooting, the whole works. Wonderfully competitive, I out-shot my siblings with bulls-eye scored every time. This skill blossomed during my 30 year Army career earning me EXPERT on the M14 rifle, M16, 45cal and 9mm handgun including Charley-model gunship weapons (Vietnam). I have both the Rifle and Pistol Expert Badge on my dress uniform and wear them proudly. Other accolades due to combat speak to my weapons skills in those arenas (Vietnam, Balkan Conflict, Iraq).

Response by SFC Scott VanKerkvoorde made Jul 12 at 2016 11:39 PM

2016-07-12T23:39:12-04:00

Having spent 10 years as a Marine and 14 as a soldier, I can say this is one way that the two services differ greatly. In the Marine Corps, when a uniform is prescribed for uniform of the day, an event or occasion, it is accompanied by specifics, i.e. service A uniform with ribbons and badges. As such, all Marines would wear them. I never noticed Army officers not wearing them until this posting. While shooting Expert in either branch is an excellent accomplishment, anyone who has had a bad day on the range can attest that shooting Marksman is also a qualification worth displaying. Marksmanship is a skill we all have in common and one I feel should be shown proudly.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 12:17 AM

2016-07-13T00:17:51-04:00

the reason for this is because officers are SUPPOSED to lead by example, so if they cant shoot expert then it would look bad on the officers corps so none of them wear it, i asked the same question to a captain and that is what i was told

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 12:18 AM

2016-07-13T00:18:05-04:00

Why advertise that youre only a marksman if you can just let them guess? Until range time that is.

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made Jul 13 at 2016 12:24 AM

2016-07-13T00:24:17-04:00

Can't speak for the Army......The Marine Corps requires all officers to wear qual badges with SS A, and DB B uniforms. Never saw a reg but none of us (E's and O's) wore shooting badges with a ss khaki shirt. The Corps requires our officers to be expert shots, as the inability to hit displays resistance to instruction(it's not an art- it's science.as a Marine Primary Marksmanship Instructor, give me a railroad car full of bannanas, and I'll get a chimp to hit at 500 yds) And the aforementioned "Setting the example". But then again, only in the Marine Corps are ALL officers expected to be "Riflemen First". That, Gentlemen, is why the Marine Rifle Platoon Commander's T/O weapon is a RIFLE.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jul 13 at 2016 12:24 AM

2016-07-13T00:24:18-04:00

I don't wear one either and haven't for about 10 years.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 12:49 AM

2016-07-13T00:49:09-04:00

I am not a great shooter - I always qualify and i stot without CCO expert and expert with CCO; I am currently deployed and carry a 9 - I would much rather carry a M4!! I think it is a much better shot! Regardless of which one I carry, I can qualify with both and I am not a 60 holder nor have I shot one so if anyone expexts me, a personnel warrant to get behind a 60 and know how to shoot it, they are in for a rude awakeing LOL! What we wear on our uniform doesn't dignify the type of Soldier that we are! I agree with COL Smallfield!

Response by SGT Gregg Cummings made Jul 13 at 2016 12:54 AM

2016-07-13T00:54:04-04:00

officers don't want their subordinates know if they are a less caliber of shooter. That is my guess.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 1:32 AM

2016-07-13T01:32:41-04:00

If i knew then, what i know now. lol.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 2:47 AM

2016-07-13T02:47:13-04:00

USMC officers wear and are expected to maintain expert rifle and pistol qualifications but no one really cares about such trifles except junior personnel. If a Marine has been in at least ten years he doesn't care that much about how many or what kind of ribbons and badges another Marine wears. Competence in one's abilities, the ability to communicate in all forms and through all channels, and displaying compassion for one's Marines is what matters. I couldn't tell you anything about my previous leaders' marksmanship abilities but I could tell you everything about my perception of their leadership abilities.

Response by SFC Rick Emery made Jul 13 at 2016 3:12 AM

2016-07-13T03:12:38-04:00

SFC R. Emery, I enjoyed 3 years as a Drill Sergeant in the U.S. Army. I was approached by my COL, Brigade Commander that I should apply for OCS. At the time I was a Staff Sergeant and one of my questions to him was, could I still wear my Drill Sergeant badge. He replied that Officers normally did not wear enlisted earned Badges, but it was up to me. I may get some slack for it. I found myself at the time looking into the future saying I would for sure where my Drill Sergeant badge and thought the same of my Expert Marksmanship badges which I had three tabs. I look at it from a little different angle that sometimes our Soldiers beneath usgain, or beside us, gain inspiration, motivation and direction from our leaders who set an example in who they really are and to lead from the front. Shooting well, and wearing their expert badges shows who they really are. I wonderd many times what did that LT, CPT, etc. qualify with when we could see everyone else at our dining in or Class A time together. At the time I had three tabs and many Soldiers would comment. Maybe that inspired them, to work and train harder. Soldiers observing an Officer wearing them would definitely see them leading from the front as well. Wearing the Drill Sergeant badge as an Officer would for sure show them that I was once a part of them, so in conclusion I feel Officers wearing Marksmanship badges would be a welcome sight and show the backbone of the Army the NCOs as well as the younger and enlisted Soldiers that that Officer was also a leader and a true part of the unit. I'm sure many would disagree but I think being proud of who we are and what we have accomplished doesn't say were showing off but actually inspire our younger generation to work hard to train as we fight and truly pay attention and focus on the details. Attention to details as we used to say. God bless Godspeed gotta go!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 3:37 AM

2016-07-13T03:37:16-04:00

Not sure if anyone point this out already (couldn't find it) but besides the reasons I read on here, I have heard that:- "Officers are supposed to be all Expert marksmen"... I guess it's a mythical notion. Perhaps they're waiting for that day when thousands of officers all synchronize and become all Experts LOL I say good luck with that

Response by Sgt Jason Markvart made Jul 13 at 2016 4:29 AM

2016-07-13T04:29:43-04:00

Only badge that needs to be added for junior officers, is a "Land Navigation" qualification badge. At least then we'll know that the LT isn't taking us along the wrong route cause he can't read a map/compass :-)

As for earned awards, whether they are badges, medals, or ribbons... Wear them with pride!

Response by SSG Ray Petersen made Jul 13 at 2016 4:42 AM

2016-07-13T04:42:21-04:00

DA PAM 670-1. Section 22-15. Sub-Section B
How worn. Marksmanship badges are worn in order of precedence from the wearer’s right, and to the left of any special skill badges that are worn. Soldiers may wear up to three marksmanship badges (total does not include marksmanship tab), unless they fail to qualify in accordance with AR 350–1 or are exempt from qualification by Army regulations. No more than three marksmanship qualification clasps may be worn on each marksmanship qualification badge.

Response by SPC Dan Kissling made Jul 13 at 2016 5:34 AM

2016-07-13T05:34:03-04:00

Interesting question, as an enlisted I think it would be best for them to wear them. For if they are to lead by example then why not be able to prove that they can perform basic tasks and drills. My Drill Sergeants said it best, every soldier is first and foremost an infantryman regardless of rank.

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made Jul 13 at 2016 6:35 AM

2016-07-13T06:35:46-04:00

I know this tradition exists in some foreign militaries and is a matter of regulation. Officer in the German Army are not allowed to wear marksmanship badges by regulation. As far as our American Army Officer Corps tradition of not wearing the badges, I don't really like it. I qualified expert most of the time with rifle/carbine and pistol and wanted to wear those badges. I do concur though that I believe this tradition comes from the fact that all officers should be experts in the profession of arms which includes marksmanship. Of course, as many NCOs will point out, we have many officers who are horrible marksman who can hide their bolo status behind this tradition :)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 6:37 AM

2016-07-13T06:37:07-04:00

I submit that officers should wear them. With due respect to the officers who commented to the contrary, I believe their replies are bullshit and spoken by officers who have lost touch with those serving under them. You qualify on the weapons systems in your command, and should be expert. Period. Your men look to you for leadership. If you don't know a Mark-19 from an M-9, you have failed them. I have lost count of officers with this piss poor attitude. And unfortunately for most, the enlisted appointed under them have little or no respect for them. Officers should be experts, but should prove it every time the unit quals. PERIOD!

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 7:04 AM

2016-07-13T07:04:37-04:00

Us warrants are funny. I've seen more warrants wearing driver's badges but not qual badges on their DA photo than O grades. I am sure that is because few O grades have them but it looks silly IMO.

I think the real reason is that some nut job O got him/herself assigned multiple weapons are tried to look like a weapons master with 6 or more badge addons.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 7:17 AM

2016-07-13T07:17:46-04:00

I believe Officers should wear marksmanship badges. Leadership needs to be transparent. Officer or not, you should be an expert at everything you touch. So if you are assigned a rifle, you should be an expert at it; no excuses...and if you can't shoot straight, then probably everyone around you deserves to know that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 8:05 AM

2016-07-13T08:05:37-04:00

Honestly, I have always thought that it was a strategy to maintain their Soldiers confidence and giving the appearance of being the highest standard, even if they are not. LTs are already looked at, in many situations, as "over-paid privates" and if this young LT is only a marksman out would only reinforce that notion that officers cannot do "real Soldier work" and that officer loses some respect from his element. In a like manner any leader who struggles to pass an apft loses all respect when they smoke a Soldier. By not wearing the badge, their ability to perform this basic Soldier task is rarely, if ever thrown into question.

Response by COL Dave Sims made Jul 13 at 2016 8:20 AM

2016-07-13T08:20:38-04:00

As a country boy I did okay in basic training and fired expert on the M14. A little later , after commissioning, I found the 45 caliber pistol to be a area denial weapon and could not hit squat with it. Then I bought a 45 caliber colt pistol in a pawn shop in Aberdeen, Maryland. Took it to a gunsmith and had things tightened up. Things picked up thereafter...and it is a superb handgun.
Badges - hmm... I think we wear too many of them. Stick to the basics ...that identify with your core function. If you are an infantryman - the CIB....if you are Ordnance - the EOD badge...and so on. Generals today wear more medals than the mostly highly decorated heroes of WWII, Korea and Vietnam ( won for valor) ...check out the photos and the bios of Audie Murphy and the current CSA.
Final bit of advice : Work hard at being tactically and technically proficient ...and enjoy the voyage.

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Jul 13 at 2016 8:54 AM

2016-07-13T08:54:39-04:00

They do in the Marine Corps, both rifle and pistol. See photo of Commandant Neller, attached.

Response by COL Terrence Wright made Jul 13 at 2016 8:56 AM

2016-07-13T08:56:18-04:00

Officers wear expert (if awarded) or nothing at all is the reason I was given as a new second lieutenant. Col T. Wright, USA Ret.

Response by TSgt Douglas Withers made Jul 13 at 2016 9:16 AM

2016-07-13T09:16:39-04:00

All military service awards and decorations should be proudly displayed for recognition of the professional achievements in their career. It shows great pride in their dedication and commitment to the defense of the United States Constitution.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 10:23 AM

2016-07-13T10:23:44-04:00

COL Smallfield provided the best answer I've heard yet. I would also add "tradition." Every officer needs to read the Army Officers Guide, or the guide respective to their branch. Unspoken rules like these are discussed in the guide and other traditions that you may not be aware of.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 11:26 AM

2016-07-13T11:26:35-04:00

“A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon.” NAPOLEON BONAPARTE

Response by PVT Will Niles made Jul 13 at 2016 11:28 AM

2016-07-13T11:28:48-04:00

General wearing marksmanship badge

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 11:37 AM

2016-07-13T11:37:32-04:00

Wear them. If you don't like them. Learn how to shoot better.

Response by MSG Micheal P Floyd Jr made Jul 13 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-07-13T11:41:14-04:00

I agree with the Colonel (Smallfield), for there are Officers whom are "Expert Snipers". Officers lead, while soldiers fight. In case of need, Officers will pick up a weapon and become a soldier but their primary function is to Lead men and women into the Fight. There is no need for Officers to showcase their ability to fire down-range, but it is essential that Officers know which soldier can do a far better job in firing down-range among the enlisted rank. Officers should NOT wear their ability to fire any weapon, such knowledge is a given that they can...

Response by TSgt Sylvia Powell made Jul 13 at 2016 11:42 AM

2016-07-13T11:42:31-04:00

Worked for a Major in the Air Force he was an XO for the Logistics General. The enlisted members were the Generals Administrative staff. When we wore blues the Major told us not to wear badges or ribbons. When I saw his I then understood why.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 12:11 PM

2016-07-13T12:11:46-04:00

I believe even if there is no reg specifically saying a solider (officer or enlisted) must wear all ribbons, it is looked upon very badly if they don't wear all earned ribbons and medals. If it is on your record, wear it!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 12:36 PM

2016-07-13T12:36:41-04:00

Don't know why but in the Air Force after I was commissioned I wore my ribbon with one device signifying qualifying expert on two weapons. Never looked at other officers but in Security Police we definitely wanted all to know. Nothing we made any deal of but when you are going to the range as often as we did I didn't see a reason not to wear it.

Response by MAJ Todd Lamb made Jul 13 at 2016 2:09 PM

2016-07-13T14:09:05-04:00

Because Officers are supposed to be experts at everything. No sense in proving you can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Response by SFC Patrick Chapman made Jul 13 at 2016 2:10 PM

2016-07-13T14:10:09-04:00

Non commissioned Officers set the example

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 2:26 PM

2016-07-13T14:26:15-04:00

"expected to be experts" term....Gentlemen, you are experts. Now, Ruck up, spread out and move forward.

Response by SPC John Lebiecki made Jul 13 at 2016 3:02 PM

2016-07-13T15:02:58-04:00

Great topic. This can be viewed in many ways.

Response by LtCol Mac McCarty made Jul 13 at 2016 4:12 PM

2016-07-13T16:12:08-04:00

Question: Looking at the uniform in the photo above, how do you tell the difference between a soldier who was actually in the unit when it was awarded the PUC from the new guys who get it as sort of a freebie?

Response by LTC Charles Bonnell made Jul 13 at 2016 4:40 PM

2016-07-13T16:40:47-04:00

I wore mine. As an officer, I figured the Soldiers and NCOs would like to know that I qualified expert on a number of weapons. Kinda hard to be the example if you can't set the example.

Response by LCDR Daniel Lanotte made Jul 13 at 2016 5:52 PM

2016-07-13T17:52:21-04:00

As soon as an officer sights down the barrel of a rifle, he has lost control of the situation.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 6:45 PM

2016-07-13T18:45:24-04:00

I'm not an O, but my father was comissioned through Air Force OTS during a time when airmen were authorized to wear all or none of their ribbons on service dress. He said the newly minted LTs were advised not to display their ribbons because it would only serve to underscore their lack of experience in front of more highly decorated NCOs.

I can't help but think this same fear is at the heart of other commisioned customs which eschew personal military flair and put forth the idea that officers' competence is to be presumed by those they command.

In reality, joining a new unit as a butter-bar is probably one of the worst FNG experiences the military has to offer. Not only does everyone expect you to be useless, but you have no opportunity to keep your head down. Your job description is basically to learn by mistake in front of an anappreciative audience until you gain enough experience to organize a larger unit. It's totally understandable how young officers might worry about the effect of personal decorations while trying to weather their first commands.

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Jul 13 at 2016 7:06 PM

2016-07-13T19:06:55-04:00

The only time I wore mine was as a young LT, and the only when it served a specific purpose. For example when I was tasked as the Pay Officer, I had a .45 on my hip and $5,000 in a box. I wore my Pistol Expert badge, just to make sure nobody got any stupid ideas.

Response by 1SG Jerry Wilton made Jul 13 at 2016 8:26 PM

2016-07-13T20:26:15-04:00

As I was reading Col Smallfields reason that officers don't wear marksmanship badges and he states that officer culture is not to wear them I stopped. In the Army I remember when you stand inspection you are to wear all authorized awards and decorations not just what you want, I thought only a general officer was authorized to design parts of the uniform!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 8:56 PM

2016-07-13T20:56:13-04:00

Because the badge means nothing? Seriously, I remember hearing NCO's tell theor Joes in the 82nd "no one wears marksmen in the 82nd, change your badge". If it's so important, it would be required by regulation. Its not. So who really cares? I see all of these opinions from all ranks. The LT asked a question. Answer with facts. This site has become the FB of the military where opinion and sense of social jusice is expressed freely. All of you outside of the Army, this is a non issue for you and number of fucks given about your opinion is 0.0. All of you in the Army, for or against, who cares? Your social media warrior capability will not effect change.

Response by SGT Windell Tripp made Jul 13 at 2016 9:11 PM

2016-07-13T21:11:44-04:00

yes you can tell the sniper in Dallas was not a great shot to have only killed 5 out of twelve I would not have missed any not bragging just a fact and I only use hr17 but my weapon is for defense of me and my family not offense .and shells are really cheap but placed in the right death is just as instant like riding a bicycle once you know how you never forget Viet Nam 65 thur 68 us army

Response by CPO Brian Pederson made Jul 13 at 2016 9:34 PM

2016-07-13T21:34:46-04:00

Probably because they can't shoot.

Response by SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder made Jul 13 at 2016 10:53 PM

2016-07-13T22:53:42-04:00

In the 82nd they most certainly do! God forbid some 1SG, SGM, or CSM who once was an ROTC instructor catch some company grade not wearing their badges when all their men are wearing theirs.

Response by LTC John Calahan made Jul 13 at 2016 11:02 PM

2016-07-13T23:02:14-04:00

No good reason not to. I wore mine for 21 years. All the BS about culture, level of responsibility, etc. is a load of crap. I'm not aware of any collective skill badges so if you're going to wear your bling: jump wings, EIB, Ranger tab, etc. you oughta wear your marksmanship badge, you earned it.

Response by CPT Pat Dougherty made Jul 13 at 2016 11:40 PM

2016-07-13T23:40:19-04:00

Cpt. John Dougherty USA (ret)

In m command some did and some didn't no comment was made either for or against. I always wore my qualification badge, especially since I usually qualified Expert. But even if I didn't I still wore it. I did this for two reasons.

1. Professional: If I had marksmanship advice for one of my soldiers one glance my uniform told them I really did have a clue and was passing on useful information. They were much more likely to listen me or to listen to the NCO I wanted them to work with to improve their skill.
2. Personal: I was a maverick. Having been enlisted my Class A's just felt incomplete without them and I saw no reason to discontinue wearing them. Perhaps that was vanity on my part perhaps not. I always prided myself on my marksmanship skills and encouraged my soldiers to take pride in theirs.

Response by LtCol J W made Jul 14 at 2016 12:23 AM

2016-07-14T00:23:26-04:00

I have no idea why Army officers don't wear marksmanship badges, but the Marine Corps ( at least when I was aboard from 1945 -1975) all Marines, officer and enlisted wore shooting badges and proudly so. In fact if a Marine was qualified as Expert for 3 years on the service rifle (M-1 for me) he wore a small bar to indicate subsequent awards. Same for Expert Pistol. Marksmanship has always been respected in the Marine Corps . During WW II and shortly following we were paid $5.00 extra per month for rifle qualification as Expert, and $3.00 per month as Sharpshooter. When I went through boot camp, if you did not qualify, the Drill Instructors had a special assembly for you! That extra pay was great when a Private only received $50.00 per month and $10 of that had to be sent home for War Bonds. In my Marine Corps, ant time I wore the Service "A" uniform, I wore my proudly wore my shooting badges. I hope the they still do! I served both as enlisted and officer, but was proud more about my enlisted Good Conduct Medal than any other awards that I had earned. To all Marines who may read this, "SEMPER FI !"

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Jul 14 at 2016 1:29 AM

2016-07-14T01:29:46-04:00

We can dance around this with Officers theories and NCO speculations. The bottom line is no Officer is going to wear a badge that indicates marksman or sharpshooter. Nothing less than expert would be acceptable. (Understandably so). The real issue is and has been for years we expect our soldiers to be proficient on their weapon right out of the shoot. The only time a Soldier fires there weapon is in qualifying or in real world situations. And than we ridicule them as substandard soldiers if they fail to qualify and blame their NCO. We as an Army owe it to them and our mission to get our soldiers to the range as often as possible. Yeah yeah budget! Well how does the Army treat it's pilots almost every day they are out flying (training) and if they have a pilot who is having a difficult time maintaining their RL status we get them help and more time in the cockpit. All of this costs the Army big with maintenance hours and fuel cost etc but in the end you have a better force. But that is not the case for the enlisted soldier. Yes we have an EST but that is not the same just as a flight simulator is not the same as a actual aircraft. We as an Army must do a better job.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Jul 14 at 2016 1:49 AM

2016-07-14T01:49:08-04:00

If you earned it....wear it bro......nothing wrong

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made Jul 14 at 2016 2:22 AM

2016-07-14T02:22:24-04:00

I think the reason officers "choose" not to wear the marksmanship badges has more to do with being ashamed of their skill than anything else. Young Lts come into units basically brainwashed that they are "Leaders of Men" and the best of the best. How would it look if the officers showed up with qualification badges lower than the people they command? I don't believe AR 670-1 says that you are to wear all authorized awards and decorations except the ones that you don't want to. If you have a skill badged it should be worn. I agree with CW3 Keck above and the principle that the Marines have. Every soldier is a basic rifleman first last and always. The only reason for not wearing a badge is that you are not qualified. If you are not qualified on the military's basic weapon then you aren't qualified to serve.
How many five jump chumps are there that are wearing officer rank and not wearing their jump wings? I would guess that number would be zero. Shouldn't that same pride extend to marksmanship badges?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 3:59 AM

2016-07-14T03:59:31-04:00

Officers are not experts in all things, that is impossible. Many, if not most, are excellent marksmen. Officers compete with each other intensely so there is inherent motivation to be a good marksman even if we do not wear a badge.

We are one of the few armies in the world (if not the only) that recognizes enlisted personnel with ribbons more frequently than officers. For example, British Army culture used to be that ONLY officers received ribbons or medals, except for extraordinary cases like earning the Victoria Cross. Our culture is the reverse - enlisted achieve and wear awards largely for individual achievement until they reach senior ranks, officers achieve and wear awards that represent organizational achievement (most of the time). All of my awards are a product of the achievements of my units, not just my own, so although I could wear a marksmanship badge, I don't because it does not represent the accomplishments of those I lead.

The exception on my uniform is the German Armed Forces Proficiency Badge. Foreign awards are individual, but that is because of how we earn them. It is impossible to earn the GAFPB as a group. To address comments about the Schutzenschnur, officers do not wear the German marksman badge (Schutzenschnur) because German officers are prohibited from wearing the badge. Skills badges, such as Airborne or Ranger, would also be an exception and represent individual accomplishment.

Bottom line for me: wear it if you like. I don't intend to because I prefer the cleaner look of the uniform without it and I do not think it is necessary. If I need a marksmanship badge to prove to my Soldiers that I am qualified to lead, I am failing miserably. My ability to earn the confidence of those I lead should stem from the decisions I make, how I treat those I lead, and my character, not a badge or award.

Badges and ribbons are nice, but leadership is a must. Leaders must inspire others to follow by their character, not the bling they wear.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 5:49 AM

2016-07-14T05:49:57-04:00

If you earn it you wear it, and wear it proudly

Response by MAJ Richard Cheek made Jul 14 at 2016 7:19 AM

2016-07-14T07:19:02-04:00

Well I guess I am odd man out. I was a mustang officer direct commission from SFC to 1LT. Never went to knife a fork school. I wore my Pistol Qualification Badge and I wore my Drill Sergent ID Badge and never thought a thing about it. Never was told I should or shouldn't.

Response by 1LT John Fleming made Jul 14 at 2016 7:36 AM

2016-07-14T07:36:38-04:00

I used to wear mine. I was always expert, but no big deal, my weapon was my platoon, or company that I had trained and conditioned

Response by LTC Jason Carter made Jul 14 at 2016 9:26 AM

2016-07-14T09:26:53-04:00

When I earned my commission, my professor and the one who commissioned me, told me that all officers are considered experts in their field. I had earned my expert marksman badge so I just took it off and always remembered what he told me.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 9:36 AM

2016-07-14T09:36:51-04:00

I am a prior SSG- I wear mine sometimes, mostly for kicks. Most people don't notice. I agree with the Marine though...

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Jul 14 at 2016 9:39 AM

2016-07-14T09:39:24-04:00

Officers do wear marksmanship badges. Maybe not in the Army.

Response by Cpl Bruce Raftery made Jul 14 at 2016 9:58 AM

2016-07-14T09:58:37-04:00

Damn, why not? They wear everything else under the sun!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 10:15 AM

2016-07-14T10:15:53-04:00

Badges? We don't need no stink'in badges!

Response by PFC Stephen Barnes made Jul 14 at 2016 10:48 AM

2016-07-14T10:48:16-04:00

Why should`nt they?

Response by COL John Cuddy made Jul 14 at 2016 12:06 PM

2016-07-14T12:06:53-04:00

I am retired now, but as an Infantry Officer I felt that it was important to be very proficient with my assigned individual weapons and always wore my marksmanship badges just like I expected my soldiers to wear theirs. At some point in my career I switched my annual qualification badges with Excellence in Competition (EIC) badges - silver in rifle and bronze in pistol. Officers who didn't wear theirs and used the excuse of "officers should be expert in everything" generally weren't experts in much including shooting their assigned weapon. Officers who said its tradition not to wear them as an officer - I always thought that was an adequate answer since the regs generally state they are authorized for wear, not mandatory.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 12:33 PM

2016-07-14T12:33:05-04:00

As the Commander of a USAR Marksmanship Unit - 5150th Special Marksmanship Unit - I was proud of my Excellence in Competition (EIC) badges and always wore them. All Officers, NCOs and Enlisted also wore them. We felt it was simply part of the uniform and as a Marksmanship Unit an absolute on our uniform!

Response by COL David W. Spence made Jul 14 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-07-14T12:40:16-04:00

Nobody ever gave me any shit for wearing my expert rifle and pistol badges on my class A uniform.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 1:01 PM

2016-07-14T13:01:22-04:00

My answer wear it and if questioned or stopped then ask for them to find it in the Regulations to show you then you will take it off.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 1:11 PM

2016-07-14T13:11:02-04:00

because they never even seen the range, too busy in staff meetings or at the O Club.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Jul 14 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-07-14T13:36:11-04:00

I retired from HHB I Corps Artillery. Most of our officers wore their marksmanship badges. However not many of our senior command wore them. We had a Ltc shoot Hawkeye almost every year, and he wore his expert badge. I had expert driver, marksman and M-60, but I usually only wore the rifle badge. When half your unit is field grade officers and 1/3 of the enlisted are E-7 there really isn't a whole lot of people I had to impress. I found the two most important things were 1) you perform your job in a motivated and proficient manner. 2) you can take an ass chewing from a general and still be high speed low drag and complete the mission without excuses. That was how you got promoted. The junior grade officers were pretty much graded the same way, only they spent more time on the carpet feeling the bite!

Response by SPC James Butler made Jul 14 at 2016 1:52 PM

2016-07-14T13:52:01-04:00

The officer marksmanship badge would be a metal outline of the broadside of a barn. LOL
In all seriousness I agree with COL Smallfield. I was only an E-4 when I was in the Reserve and I appreciated the expert leadership that was in my unit.

Response by PFC Roland Pena made Jul 14 at 2016 2:03 PM

2016-07-14T14:03:31-04:00

I suppose it's a matter of preference?

Response by SFC Alvin Miller made Jul 14 at 2016 2:16 PM

2016-07-14T14:16:29-04:00

Yes officers should wear their Marksmanship Badges as does the Enlisted personnel. The absent of them only means they did not qualify with a weapon, or they were very low in qualification. SO HAVE THEM WEAR THEM. Then there is now questionable doubts.

Response by SFC Erich Orrick made Jul 14 at 2016 3:18 PM

2016-07-14T15:18:51-04:00

Maybe not to embarrass them when they aren't experts. The current culture of the officer in the Army is the epitome of what right looks like and NCOs are lesser creatures was appalling. Most NCOs at the SFC and above level have the same education they their officer counterparts have yet earned it while also leading troops not like most officers earning their degree and spending weekends at keggers.

Response by CW3 David Kaye made Jul 14 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-07-14T15:44:07-04:00

They do in many cases. I was an enlisted man for 13 years and shortly after making E-7 I became a warrant officer, retiring at the grade of CW3. I fired "Expert" with 6 different weapons as an EM/Sr. NCO and proudly wore my expert badge with a pretty long "ladder" on my uniform after becoming an officer.

Response by SGM John Barnett made Jul 14 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-07-14T15:50:59-04:00

I'm not sure but I do know why 2 Lt. and Majors rank insignia are gold while all others are Silver, that so you can tell them from real Officers. Chills it's NCO humor.

Response by Sgt Jim Killman made Jul 14 at 2016 3:56 PM

2016-07-14T15:56:03-04:00

Oh, heck. Let's man up. Most officers couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle. I wouldn't want that generally known either.

Response by SFC Joel Maddeaux made Jul 14 at 2016 4:09 PM

2016-07-14T16:09:34-04:00

Most Officers I knew couldn't hit the broad side of a Mountain..At least I can hit my hand....

Response by Col Jonathan Brazee made Jul 14 at 2016 4:49 PM

2016-07-14T16:49:39-04:00

As a Marine officer, I wore my rifle and pistol badges for my entire 30 years.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 4:51 PM

2016-07-14T16:51:15-04:00

The " Buckshot Willie" badge has yet to be authorized.

Response by CW2 Brian Beatty made Jul 14 at 2016 5:23 PM

2016-07-14T17:23:02-04:00

Officers are supposed to qualify so no need to show it. That is the theory. I believe no officer wants to be out done by his enlisted personal. But regardless of my thoughts that is the way we wear our uniform.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jul 14 at 2016 5:40 PM

2016-07-14T17:40:19-04:00

I can't help you on this one. I only know about the Marines, and every Marine wears their rifle and pistol qualification medals.

Response by SFC Michael Koger made Jul 14 at 2016 7:03 PM

2016-07-14T19:03:22-04:00

SGM Mark Davis,
Typical response from a SGM whom probably has little, or no, education. This comment is coming from a former Army E-7, with a BSM, two Master's Degrees and currently working as the Operations Manager for the NASA Space Network. My question is this; why should the level of award be predetermined by someone's rank? I am a believer in education, if the Army were to ever require at least a four year degree for promotion to the rank of E-9, how many current SGM/CSMs would be in that rank? Cheers!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 7:39 PM

2016-07-14T19:39:41-04:00

I don't wear them either and I'm enlisted. I think the Army uniform is over decorated and godey. I believe that if you can't shoot you need to find another profession. Unfortunately the Army prefers Soliders who are good at spreadsheets. I'm waiting for a spreadsheet badge.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jul 14 at 2016 8:03 PM

2016-07-14T20:03:31-04:00

Because most of them can't hit the side of a barn?

Response by MSgt Keith Houin (retired) made Jul 14 at 2016 9:14 PM

2016-07-14T21:14:44-04:00

As a Veteran of two services and currently serving as an Army civilian. If authorized to wear it, wear it. Put the placards or your office walls. But make sure it for the right reason. That recognition is not just about you, it is about inspiration. Actually, inspiration is the biggest factor. Your awards, lame as you may feel they be, might be the only thing that inspires the gal/guy following in your footsteps, to step up and make the critical call.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Jul 14 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-07-14T21:36:47-04:00

From the comments here, it seems there's both a lot of local variation on the wear/non-wear of marksmanship badges by officers "culture" and a variance in that "tradition" over time as well. It is well to keep in mind that we are discussing "tradition" in an organization that is over two centuries old.
A good deal of authority is exercised, if not arrogated, by lower level commanders who "discourage" if not outright forbid wearing of marksmanship badges authorized (but not necessarily required) by regulations. The result is that there is no standard, Army-wide consistency in the practice of officers wearing marksmanship badges, neither over time nor over the various subordinate units composing the Army.

Response by Capt Steve Torrent made Jul 14 at 2016 9:49 PM

2016-07-14T21:49:08-04:00

I am a Marine Mustang and we wear both pistol and rifle marksmanship badges. Every Marine is a rifleman. It's not the smoke or noise we make, but the HITS that count!

Response by LTC Chuck Abbott made Jul 14 at 2016 9:58 PM

2016-07-14T21:58:00-04:00

It is up to the individual on if they want to wear it or not.

Response by SGT Rick Hyatt made Jul 14 at 2016 10:53 PM

2016-07-14T22:53:32-04:00

I was told this by an Army Officer once, and I believe it. War is war, and some with run to the rear. Officers shoot them to prevent a mass panic and to continue the assault. And to make the point. Makes sense to me.

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Jul 15 at 2016 1:40 AM

2016-07-15T01:40:37-04:00

I have never heard of this "rule or reg" until now. I was a draftee and qualified on several weapons during basic. Then enlisted to get schools and qualified on another weapon, and went to, and graduated from Armor OCS. More different weapons. Since I was an expert shot before getting drafted, I believe I could have qualified expert on everything I touched. But as a 19 year old, I wanted "stuff", so purposely got Expert, Marksman, AND Sharpshooters badges. Most of the "tags" were on the Expert badge. No one, including my CG, Brigade, or Battalion commanders ever called me over and said "Lieutenant, you are out of uniform" while wearing all of them on dress greens or Blues. Now this was in 1966 - 1975, so maybe things have changed. 1LT Rich Voss

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2016 2:09 AM

2016-07-15T02:09:38-04:00

I never thought about it or gave it much thought. all that mattered to me was to do my job nothing more nothing less. What a Officer wears was up to him and not me.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2016 3:29 AM

2016-07-15T03:29:01-04:00

I'll give you an honest answer. I am an officer, a physician in the Army. Not all officers are created equally. Unlike soldiers in the MTOE units, I have been to the M-16/M-4 range two times over 7 years, both times to qualify. I barely qualified.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jul 15 at 2016 3:39 AM

2016-07-15T03:39:46-04:00

If officers are not expected to be proficient in their weapon systems then why are armor officers required to qualify with their tanks? All of this talk about how officers are planners and leaders and not in the shooting business seems to me to be a moot point when the bullets start flying. Every battalion commander, company commander, and platoon leader I ever served with qualified their tank with their tank crew. As officers they were expected to not only lead the battle, they were expected to actually fight their tank. They were tank crew members that were very much in the putting steel on target business and in the development and implementation of the plan. Someone mentioned the "burden" of command in an above post. I would suggest that if you believe that to command is a "burden" you should apply for an an immediate retirement of your commission. Command is a privilege not a burden. To insinuate otherwise is an insult to a long line of officers that have had the privilege of commanding soldiers and doing it better than any other military in the world. Officers are soldiers first. Leaders second. If all of your position is overrun and it is down to you and a few soldiers nobody cares what your rank is, they want you to be proficient at your fist job and that is to put bullets into bad guys.

I never really cared whether my officers wore their bolo badges or not. I only cared that they were proficient in their job. That included basic soldiering skills. I never cared about "officer" culture. Just do your job.

Response by MAJ Robert Lindsey made Jul 15 at 2016 5:06 AM

2016-07-15T05:06:21-04:00

Many Are NCOes on hear seam to assume officers can't be expert marksmen. Well as another former E-5, i make no apologies for"going to the dark side". I'm a strategic planner, soldier and Yes Expert Marksmen with rifle, pistol , and as an FA gunner. Disparaging remarks from E8 and E9s don't set a good example of professionalism, nor support for the service as a whole, when they openly put down officers. I've met and handled more than my share of do nothing , coffee drinkers, who are Stuck NCOES as well. MAJ , RL,

Response by CPT Robert Wiggins made Jul 15 at 2016 7:41 AM

2016-07-15T07:41:25-04:00

With all due respect to some of the other officers writing comments, I believe that if you earned it, wear it. I was an enlisted soldier "before" earning my bars, and I proudly wear everything. Always have, always did, and always will.

Response by MSG David Smoak made Jul 15 at 2016 8:40 AM

2016-07-15T08:40:10-04:00

There are two classes of military professionals. In one class, leadership and professional leadership development is highly valued with good pay and career protections followed by an even better retirement package. In the other class of patriots you treat like the proletarians in communist societies with minor differences in their own social structure and leave them with broken bodies and much reduced pensions compared to the first class. What is a good way to distract the second class from their real position in military society? Give them pretty uniforms with lots of colorful pieces of cloth and shiny medal badges and then let them argue and contest with each other on who can earn the most pretty things on their uniforms.....

Response by SSgt Justyn Stevens made Jul 15 at 2016 9:43 AM

2016-07-15T09:43:04-04:00

If you earned it sir, wear it!!

Response by CW3 Naomi Stewart made Jul 15 at 2016 11:56 AM

2016-07-15T11:56:09-04:00

I was told, upon graduation and pinning on my wobbly ones, that "tradition" says officers don't wear them, therefore we shouldn't wear them (this was from a schoolhouse Warrant). A week later, I was talking with a senior crusty old Warrant. He had his Expert Marksman badge on his jacket. We had the same discussion. He said "I am a Warrant, that means I was prior enlisted. I know it, the troops know it and the COL knows it. I earned this badge and I'm wearing it. The RLO's don't wear it because they don't have a clue how to shoot a rifle and couldn't qualify if they had to. Wear it." So I did. I may have been in the minority, but then again I've never been afraid to stick out. Honestly, I think it's rather deceitful and indicator of shame when prior enlisted try to remove all traces that they were enlisted. I am not ashamed that I was an NCO before I was a Warrant.

Response by MAJ James Arnold made Jul 15 at 2016 12:03 PM

2016-07-15T12:03:17-04:00

I wore my Drivers Badge and Marksmanship Badge(s) with pride. Too many fellow officers could not hit the broad side of a barn from the inside. My enlisted career taught me how toe read AR 670-1 and comply with its guidance. I believe every Officer should show their soldiers they are competent in their basic soldier skills and wear the skill badge of their competence and not hide from their abilities, not wearing the badge.

Response by Cpl Glen Bradley made Jul 15 at 2016 1:07 PM

2016-07-15T13:07:36-04:00

It's not "officers" in general who do not wear marksmanship badges, it's the US Army Officers in specific. US Marine Officers certainly do wear them in their dress uniforms.

Response by SFC Mike Appleby made Jul 15 at 2016 1:10 PM

2016-07-15T13:10:51-04:00

Before WWII you saw many officers wearing marksmanship badges. Korea, Vietnam and on not at all. Something clearly happened in the officer corps to push this idea. Of course we haven't won a "war" since then either....coincidents?

Response by MAJ Ronald Burgy made Jul 15 at 2016 9:13 PM

2016-07-15T21:13:09-04:00

With all the above comments, it really boils down to the fact that the leadership of the US Army does not value small arms marksmanship and the Marines do............

Response by SPC Fred Scholl made Jul 15 at 2016 9:42 PM

2016-07-15T21:42:43-04:00

If you have earned the badge then you should wear the badge. Period.

Response by SSG Ricky R Jamison made Jul 16 at 2016 11:56 AM

2016-07-16T11:56:41-04:00

Response by LCpl Doug Gilmore made Jul 16 at 2016 12:05 PM

2016-07-16T12:05:24-04:00

I have always thought that the Army uniform was max tacky. A PFC has so much "stuff" on his jacket that he is easily mistaken as a General. The Army needs to tone the hardware way down to stop looking like a costume instead of a uniform. JMO.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2016 12:13 PM

2016-07-16T12:13:01-04:00

Response by SN Doug Hesson made Jul 16 at 2016 2:51 PM

2016-07-16T14:51:57-04:00

Military doctrine has taught that an officer is supposed to lead,and not fight so much.History has shown that battles go to the officers who are aggressive and fight.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Jul 16 at 2016 3:32 PM

2016-07-16T15:32:38-04:00

Who cares? If anyone doubts my shooting abilities, let's go to the range. Honestly, nobody has ever brought up that I don't have one on. But then I'm a gun pilot...we all like guns and shooting stuff anyways.

Response by 1SG Steve Purcell made Jul 16 at 2016 8:43 PM

2016-07-16T20:43:27-04:00

Seems that during my service (71-91, 3 years of that a Drill Sergeant) I observed Officers wearing the marksmanship badges. Understand, when I first entered, we wore fatigues, black boots, khakis and poplin shirts with our Class A Greens. OK, I know......that was Neanderthal days.

Response by CPT Michael Stephen made Jul 16 at 2016 9:00 PM

2016-07-16T21:00:51-04:00

It is not what we think, it is what we enforce. All Soldiers, officer and enlisted, enforce the standards. More especially the Noncommissioned Officer. NCOs do not enforce the "culture." NCOs do not care about the culture of training and leading Soldiers. NCOs authority is derived from their commander and their respective policies which therein are derived from regulations. Whether you have a "desire" to wear them or not is irrelevant. It means you place subjective over objective. Which means you look for grey where there only is only black and white. This "culture" that is talked about is a prejudice. It is a limited viewpoint that most officers are sourced from ROTC and West Point.* I was an NCO (E-7) with 16 years in the Army right before I graduated OCS and was pinned 2nd Lieutenant. I was a pretty good shooter (mostly Sharpshooter and occasionally Expert) and I was darn proud of it and I rolled it into my pride with being in the Army. And I sure was proud of being an NCO and given the rare honor of becoming an Officer. *Not a critique of commissioning source at all. Don't misconstrue.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2016 9:24 PM

2016-07-16T21:24:48-04:00

Same reason officers don't do a PFT with enlisted; they don't want us to know if they suck. At least that's how it was in the Corps

Response by LTC Michael Sternfeld made Jul 16 at 2016 10:53 PM

2016-07-16T22:53:05-04:00

I was an enlisted man for 3 years, including a 12 month stint in Vietnam. After that I took ROTC at college and made a career out of the Army Reserve that included Operation Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom [at age 58 no less!]. I was always proud to wear my marksmenship badges. Most NCOs and junior enlisted troops always complemented me on my skill set. I was sought out on the range for coaching marginal shooters. I wonder why some officers are afraid to show their skill level? It takes extra time to practice and its at your own expense but every military leader, no matter what his or her MOS is actually in the final analysis a leader of a platoon or company of riflemen. Our skills with military weapons is a bedrock part of our military skill set and leadership ability.

Response by SSG William Egan made Jul 17 at 2016 7:02 AM

2016-07-17T07:02:38-04:00

I NEVER NOTICED THAT AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL OFFICERS WEARING THEM. LEAD BY EXAMPLE. GO AND QUALIFY WITH YOUR UNIT AND BE PROUD. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN POSITION AND AN OFFICER IS NOT GOING TO BE ON THE FRONT LINE AS A SNIPER, BUT IT WILL BE GOOD FOR THE UNIT TO SEE THE OFFICERS WEARING MARKSMANSHIP BADGES.

DIFFERENT SUBJECT, BUT I ALSO THINK ALL BRANCHES SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE CRUCIBLE LIKE THE MARINE CORPS....SHIP OR PLANE GOES DOWN YOU BETTER KNOW HOW TO FIGHT.

Response by PFC Stephen Tomes made Jul 17 at 2016 9:43 AM

2016-07-17T09:43:16-04:00

Too embarrassing if it's not an expert badge.

Response by SGT Denny Shaw made Jul 17 at 2016 1:21 PM

2016-07-17T13:21:32-04:00

BECAUSE AN OFFICER CAN NOT SHOOT WORTH A DARN ONLY GIVE ORDERS THAT IS WHY I WAS AN NON COMMISSIONED OFFICER, I WAS ONE OF THE BEST WHILE IN COMBAT. I COULD FIGHT, SHOOT, SMELL, EAR AND BE ALERT TO HOSTILE FORCES. I AM ONE PROUD VET WHO WAS ALLOWED TO COME HOME BY THE GRACE OF GOD.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2016 6:48 PM

2016-07-17T18:48:52-04:00

Because it is expected...As an officer and an example of leadership...That officers know how to shoot a weapon.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2016 7:01 PM

2016-07-17T19:01:18-04:00

670-1 has guidelines for the wear of officers awards just as it does in the enlisted side... A person can choose to so pride I. Their accomplishment if he or she chooses.. While I was in the honor guard it was our commanders policy that all persons of our unit while in dress uniform will wear all awards earned..so if an officer chooses not to wear there awards i.e. Marksmanship badges then let them me personally when I get the new 2lt I'm showing him or her the right way to do things so when they are in charge of troops and standing in front of troops they are the standard to regulation not what is popular cause that is not my place but to enforce army regs is so if my joes have to wear their marksmanship badges I feel they leaders should too just my thoughts

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-07-17T21:36:39-04:00

Why is this a question? If you want to wear it and there is nothing in AR670-1 that say you can't, then slap it on.

Response by PO1 Mike Mulroony made Jul 17 at 2016 10:17 PM

2016-07-17T22:17:12-04:00

yes wear them you earned it

Response by SGT John Barker made Jul 17 at 2016 10:31 PM

2016-07-17T22:31:59-04:00

All any officer ever did for me was try to get me KIA, so I do not much care for them. Before all you shavetails go wild, many of my kin are/were officers and I have a military family history longer than Lt. Dan!

Response by SSgt William Callen made Jul 17 at 2016 11:58 PM

2016-07-17T23:58:34-04:00

To Col Jason Smallfield: Re your comment "Culture. Officer culture is not to wear markmanship badges" Tell it to the Marines!!!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2016 4:22 AM

2016-07-18T04:22:06-04:00

Because they can't shoot.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2016 10:01 AM

2016-07-18T10:01:13-04:00

This is due to the fact that officers, are expected to be experts in everything.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2016 11:47 AM

2016-07-18T11:47:18-04:00

I thought of this discussion as I watched the most recent MoH award. Check out his Marksman badge!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2016 12:07 AM

2016-07-20T00:07:58-04:00

I'm not convinced by all the rhetoric of this being some conspiracy enacted by incompetents. So there's a group of non-achieving marksman officers out there creating an un-written rule to mask their own shame?

Compare the percentage of officers with a mustache and those wearing marksmanship badges, and contrast those actions in terms of exactly why officers generally don't do them. Are officers without mustaches hiding some deficiency? Not likely. So why do we assume that is the case with marksmanship badges? Sure it's an easy escape for those officers poor at qualifying, but that doesn't make it the reason that in general terms officers do not usually wear them.

Perhaps a better question is: should the Army require officers to wear marksmanship badges in order to place due emphasis on our most basic warrior task?

I usually qualify expert, but have no real interest in wearing the badge. For one thing, the uniform is already a pain to set up and to switch between DA Photo standards, unofficial functions standards (unit balls and the like), and payday activities standards.

Response by Cpl Vic Eizenga made Aug 5 at 2016 4:30 PM

2016-08-05T16:30:48-04:00

they still do in the Marine Corps.

Response by LtCol J W made Sep 15 at 2016 12:44 PM

2016-09-15T12:44:35-04:00

When I traded my stripes for Gold bars, i did not stop realizing that the troops expect their leaders to be good at their job and the leaders expect the troops to be good at their job. I consistently qualified as expert with the service rifle (M-1) and pistol (Colt .45 cal) and I was proud to display the badges. Leadership means excelling in your job and that includes use of weapons!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-09-27T17:25:49-04:00

I earned my marksmanship ribbon for both long rifle and M9, and I'm authorized to wear the badge on my uniform, and I do. I don't agree with the whole "culture" aspect between Enlisted and Officers. Plus, I'd like my Airmen to know that they can count on me in a pinch :)

Response by SSG John Jensen made Sep 30 at 2016 5:15 PM

2016-09-30T17:15:40-04:00

the real reason for officers to carry weapons was to shoot their own men in the back when they tried to run away

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Oct 30 at 2016 12:33 AM

2016-10-30T00:33:12-04:00

I was award the Army EIC in Bronze (Pistol) for a sanctioned leg match in 2007. The 2-3x I wore my ASU before retiring / coming off AD in EUCOM I wore it. I was asked by several Army NCOs whether the badge was a National Guard award. LOL, Jeeze.

Ok, here's my take. I qualified for the German Bronze Schutzenschnur in Silver. The Bundeswehr awards it to be worn by Enlisted / NCO only award. Not for officers. I couldn't wear and I followed the Army tradition of officers not wearing BOLO badges. The EIC was my exception.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Nov 24 at 2016 3:04 PM

2016-11-24T15:04:57-05:00

I was both enlisted and officer and as an officer I never wore the badges either. I never wore it because everybody had this badge. I tried to wear those awards and badges most soldiers didn't wear. I was never told to wear it or not to wear it. That's my opinion.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 24 at 2016 4:20 PM

2016-11-24T16:20:13-05:00

interesting....

Response by Cpl Brian Johnston made Nov 24 at 2016 6:36 PM

2016-11-24T18:36:52-05:00

As USMC MOS 8531 Marksmanship Instructor, all Marines officers up to maybe Colonel had to qualify every year, or risk not being promotable. All officers wore shooting badges!

I was rather good as an instructor and coach, and was once exclusively assigned to a Marine 1st Lt who had difficulty qualifying.

Response by LTC Charles Bonnell made Dec 18 at 2016 10:12 AM

2016-12-18T10:12:54-05:00

Too much bull shit here. Rally Point, take this question down now. COL S, please keep your radio handy, you probably couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Response by Cpl Vic Eizenga made Jan 12 at 2017 2:06 PM

2017-01-12T14:06:13-05:00

I have said this before I do know that Marine Corps officers still wear what they earn even Generals. All Marines primary MOS is 0311 (rifleman). My MOS was 0351 ( Assault man) even though I did not carry an M14 the whole time I still had to qualify for every year. Because I was in Vietnam from 1965 -1966 and then Gitmo for the rest of 1966 they made me qualify 3 times in 1967 with the M14 and the .45. I will tell you there were plenty of officers out there with me.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2017 9:05 AM

2017-04-01T09:05:48-04:00

I was told by a senior officer that officers don't wear marksmanship badges because officers are expected to be experts in everything they do. The reality is is that it would be just too hard to get those people who can't qualify expert to qualify expert. A low score of the PT test is more easily hidden while an expert marksmanship badge is not. No, no, we would not want to embarrass the officer who could not qualify expert.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 3 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-04-03T13:41:44-04:00

Because most can't qualify...lol..sorry that was too easy.

Response by PO3 John Keas made Apr 6 at 2017 11:32 AM

2017-04-06T11:32:16-04:00

I admit I am not up on Army Regs, but I always just figured it was tradition. I never paid that close attention to the racks, so not sure I even saw them on Navy officers

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jul 2 at 2017 11:56 AM

2017-07-02T11:56:56-04:00

Lt. I served in the AF Reserve and then the AD Air Force and we had a ribbon. So
Whatever the Army says how to wear your uniform Sir, I would surmise you just follow along like a good Lt and do what is required(meanwhile read up on the why's and why-nots Sir and get a better understanding. Some officer who'd been in a way longer time may just give the proverbial "that's the way it is and always will be" Soldier, now buy the ol' man another drink). ...

Response by Lynne Crooks made Jul 5 at 2017 7:36 PM

2017-07-05T19:36:03-04:00

Why not? Earned it, wear it. Proudly❣️

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 13 at 2017 6:16 PM

2017-08-13T18:16:37-04:00

I just assumed all OFFICER TYPES WERE LOUSY SHOTS.

Response by SGT David Coulter made Aug 13 at 2017 6:17 PM

2017-08-13T18:17:28-04:00

I've seen my share of officers even a chaplain carry m_4s

Response by SGT David Coulter made Aug 13 at 2017 6:18 PM

2017-08-13T18:18:02-04:00

And no it's their rtos weapon

Response by SGT David Coulter made Aug 13 at 2017 6:20 PM

2017-08-13T18:20:39-04:00

That and you know who did all the actual training ? Ncos officers just said let's train this all the rest was nco

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 6:46 PM

2017-08-13T18:46:42-04:00

I served in the Marine Corps and then later in the Army. I couldn't figure out this Army thing about officers and marksmanship badges either. In the Corps when you saw an officer with the Expert Rifle and Pistol badges, at least you knew he could shoot as well as any enlisted man.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 6:55 PM

2017-08-13T18:55:18-04:00

Geez I must be getting old! When I served officers wore all their awards and decorations. IAW 670-1. Different Army after 1991. Just hope that all officer should qualify annually. Wonder who clean their weapons?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 7:24 PM

2017-08-13T19:24:27-04:00

There is no reg. Its unwritten tradition. Once when I was wearing my Expert Marksmanship badge and my Expert Field Medical Badge, someone told me it cheapens the EFMB; no logic I see in that; I earned both. Its a silly tradition. Is it because officers do have lower scores on the average (because they don't get the opportunity to practice shooting as oftern even though they must qualify annually as do enlisted.)? Don't know if that's the reason, but this unwritten tradition is silly!

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Aug 13 at 2017 7:33 PM

2017-08-13T19:33:29-04:00

I ran many a pistol range for qualification. Our Enlisted who were issued pistols, no problems. Warrants no problem. O grade offices, scary with a few exceptions.

Response by SGT David Coulter made Aug 13 at 2017 7:42 PM

2017-08-13T19:42:10-04:00

Yet 2lt that's not true in all my years as an mortar did we have one lt that knew anything at all about mortars in fact in higher level planning g missions the mortar plt sgt was the one advising the col not the lt

Response by MAJ Bill Riddle made Aug 13 at 2017 8:52 PM

2017-08-13T20:52:36-04:00

I qual'ed expert rifle and marksman pistol. Never wore the badges ... until I went to work civil service for the Marine Corps. I have put on my blues for one meds night (AKA dining in) and one MC birthday ball. When in Rome...

Response by SSG Marshall Paul made Aug 13 at 2017 10:54 PM

2017-08-13T22:54:40-04:00

Again it appears that do-dads and badges, ribbons, patches dominate the thinking of those who post here. In the process of explaining themselves, there are well written expositions that reassure me that our soldiers know their business. But there is a disconnect for me, seeing rag bag soldiers wearing camo in public, apparently never ironed and looking slovenly; yet there is a concerted effort among yourselves to show off the pretty goo gaws.

Response by SPC Tommy Faircloth made Aug 14 at 2017 12:16 AM

2017-08-14T00:16:17-04:00

My question is what the hell is going on with that badge setup in this picture?

Response by CPL Stephen Patterson made Aug 14 at 2017 11:32 AM

2017-08-14T11:32:21-04:00

The reply at the tip of this from the Colonel is great. That is also a clear display of you leadership value in that you left no room for missunderstaning, confusion, or otherwise of what you wrote.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2017 8:34 PM

2017-08-15T20:34:50-04:00

Sir, it is in the training manual

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 6:53 AM

2017-08-16T06:53:13-04:00

I was told early in OCS by the Col. that officers don't usually wear them because it is expected that they be experts in everything a Soldier does. What good does it do and how much confidence does it instill in leadership if a leader does not qualify as expert in one of the most basic skills a Soldier has? The solution, no officer wears qualification badges, usually. Not that I agree with it.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Aug 16 at 2017 10:09 AM

2017-08-16T10:09:38-04:00

because they barely qualify...lol.

Response by SPC Maurice Tillman made Aug 18 at 2017 7:31 PM

2017-08-18T19:31:17-04:00

They're not expected to shoot anything. Literally, they don't normally wear because they're not really marksmen. They manage combat, not directly participate.

Response by SPC Isaac Juarez made Nov 30 at 2017 10:22 AM

2017-11-30T10:22:05-05:00

Most of them avoid the range.

Response by SFC Killo Serafin made Jan 4 at 2018 9:06 AM

2018-01-04T09:06:28-05:00

Yes ! they earn it and it’s part of the uniform.

Response by SFC Killo Serafin made Jan 4 at 2018 9:09 AM

2018-01-04T09:09:33-05:00

Yes ! but your a rifleman first ! if that’s what it comes down to.

Response by SSgt Bob Flood made Jan 4 at 2018 3:12 PM

2018-01-04T15:12:32-05:00

After serving as a Marine for 14 years I received a direct commission as a 1LT in the Army Reserve. Could no longer my my Marine marksmanship badges on an Army uniform, so I entered into rifle completions and was awarded the Army Excellence in Competion for rifle and wore it until I retired as an O-4.

Response by CPL Ginger Strouse made Jan 5 at 2018 1:36 PM

2018-01-05T13:36:02-05:00

No they should not could lead to disrespect due to the officer only being a marksman.

Response by MAJ David Atkinson made Jan 6 at 2018 7:43 PM

2018-01-06T19:43:55-05:00

No need to let your subordinates know you can’t shoot.

Response by SFC Kevin Hathaway made Jan 7 at 2018 4:11 PM

2018-01-07T16:11:25-05:00

You can wear it if you earn it. My problem is to water down the award such as giving away Crewmember Wings to recruits who never flew an hour. Just Saying!

Response by SGT Lyndon Dellis made Jan 8 at 2018 5:55 AM

2018-01-08T05:55:04-05:00

I am not sure about now, been awhile since on active duty, but I believe it was thier choice whether they wore them or not. As an aside to this issue, I qualified expert on the M-60 general Purpose machine gun, in basic training, and had to keep my qualifying orders in my wallet the rest of the time was on active duty. That particular marksmanship badge was that rare!

Response by CPT Charlie Richmond made Jan 9 at 2018 7:09 AM

2018-01-09T07:09:37-05:00

As a former NCO and CWO I wore my marksmanship badges I found it gave me connection to the NCO’s and troops. It also showed maintaining my individual Soldier skills which was important to me.

Response by SGT Francis Abram made Jan 9 at 2018 10:49 AM

2018-01-09T10:49:52-05:00

Would not allow me to vote down on first response

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2018 1:54 PM

2018-01-09T13:54:33-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I think it is about the assumption that as officers we meet the standards just like we do not have service stripes or GCM.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2018 3:17 PM

2018-01-09T15:17:59-05:00

Don't get me wrong it lets you know who's who when it comes to individual weapons, but i take more pride in my drivers mechanic badge (91B) than my marksmanship badge, I've worn all three badges at different points in my career. Bottom line every soldier regardless or rank and position except the chaplain qualifies. Its no different or less important than a PT test. Fact of the mater is guard and reserve troops need more range time.

Response by A1C George Coffman made Jan 9 at 2018 7:56 PM

2018-01-09T19:56:00-05:00

Air Force sounding off here. As an air man up to NCO I had more respect for officers that could walk the walk . Knowing they trained and were as well qualified as their troops under them earned an unspoken respect.

Response by CPL Jeff DeYoung made Jan 10 at 2018 6:33 AM

2018-01-10T06:33:03-05:00

Yes. Officers should feel the same anxiety of displaying such skill.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jan 10 at 2018 7:50 AM

2018-01-10T07:50:34-05:00

Might want to qualify this just a bit. It is customary for Army Officers to not wear weapons qualification badges. Marine Corp Officers do wear them.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2018 8:10 PM

2018-01-11T20:10:28-05:00

I've never real thought about it but in OCS they told us no marksmanship/shooting badges, so I just assumed that was the rule.

Response by SP5 Randal Morrison made Jan 11 at 2018 9:11 PM

2018-01-11T21:11:48-05:00

Yes

Response by LTC John Griscom made Jan 22 at 2018 11:17 PM

2018-01-22T23:17:28-05:00

Could be a carryover picked up from the German Army since German Officers are not permitted to wear the German Shooting Cord and although an American Officer may qualify for it, it may not be worn,

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2018 9:42 AM

2018-01-30T09:42:37-05:00

Great post still helping out new mustangs. I will proudly wear my expert pistol and sharpshooter rifle with my driver badge. Thanks!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 12:16 AM

2018-03-22T00:16:53-04:00

We suck. Well, not me but most of us. We aren’t going to walk around with our marksman badge for all to see.

Response by LCDR Robert Brown made Apr 8 at 2018 9:56 PM

2018-04-08T21:56:02-04:00

As a Navy Chaplain I was a non-combatant. Although I was permitted to qualify with pistol and rifle, I was not permitted to wear the ribbons.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 9:08 PM

2018-04-19T21:08:28-04:00

Officers should qualify expert with their assigned weapon, and it should be identified on the OER like the APFT.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2018 4:04 PM

2018-07-20T16:04:16-04:00

I do still wear my Good Conduct Medal.

Response by MAJ Fred Peterman made Aug 22 at 2018 12:25 AM

2018-08-22T00:25:33-04:00

I was in the Guard and was on the state rifle team. I taught marksmanship, both rifle and pistol to soldiers of the units I was assigned to. The NCO's ran the rifle range and I ran the pistol range.

Response by MAJ James Litchfield made Sep 24 at 2018 6:26 AM

2018-09-24T06:26:35-04:00

Army Platoon Leaders (2LT and some 1LT) are issued rifles and are required to qualify with them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 7:03 PM

2018-12-17T19:03:25-05:00

As a reserve officer and hobbiest competitive shooter it isn’t unrealistic I shoot more rounds in a year than my entire company will.

I take no enjoyment at the range and put all my efforts on getting my reservists qualified in the one time a year they will fire a rifle.

Also, someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t qualification badges suppose to be current within the year? Such as the case, a lot of reservists shouldn’t be wearing them. I went 4 years once without pulling an army trigger.

Response by SSG Doug Terrel made Dec 18 at 2018 5:16 PM

2018-12-18T17:16:23-05:00

Do you carry a rifle during combat? Nobody is particularly proud of getting expert on the M9. It's a little easy.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2018 6:25 PM

2018-12-18T18:25:29-05:00

Maybe it is just an excuse that the officer can’t shit for sh!t and doesn’t want to be upstaged. Just saying.

Response by CPT Derial Bivens made Dec 18 at 2018 7:47 PM

2018-12-18T19:47:25-05:00

In every command I was in after commissioning (I was enlisted for 10 years), officers were REQUIRED to wear marksmanship badges. Furthermore, officers had to qualify on every weapon under their command. Wearing marksmanship badges served two purposes: 1) it showed that you were, in fact, qualified to fire every weapon in your platoon or company and 2) it provides incentive for officers to actually strive for an Expert badge. Here's the kicker, though, for non-combat arms types: if you only fire your weapon once a year, how can you be expected to be proficient? I was a marksman before I joined the Army and have always kept my marksmanship skills honed. 16 years after retirement, I maintain a rifle range on my farm and my sons, my oldest grandson and I still qualify fo Army standards once a month. And, yes, authorized or not, we ALL proudly wear Expert Rifle and Pistol badges on our range vests/jackets.

Response by MAJ Jeffrey Sacks made Dec 19 at 2018 1:36 AM

2018-12-19T01:36:28-05:00

Yes, and I proudly wore my expert badge for rifle and pistol on my Class A uniform, but not on Dress Blue or Dress White uniforms - back in my day.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2018 11:49 AM

2018-12-19T11:49:54-05:00

Officers are authorized to wear them but by tradition don't. I think that started with a commander who was a lousy shot.

Response by CPT William Jones made Dec 19 at 2018 11:55 AM

2018-12-19T11:55:15-05:00

Not wearing marksmanship badges by officers in the army must be a new thing. During my service(RVN era) officers wore all badges and awards on the uniform as required by the uniform. As an aside the Marine corps Commandant only wears his shooting badges on his every day uniform. Why would an officer not wear a marksmanship badge,it is one of the firs awards a member of the military EARNS.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Dec 19 at 2018 4:08 PM

2018-12-19T16:08:37-05:00

Yes, they should wear them if they EARNED them.....when the shit hits the fan it's all hands on deck and if a officer was SMART they would qualify with an M4 and carry one leg strap the pistol

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Dec 19 at 2018 4:46 PM

2018-12-19T16:46:34-05:00

I didn’t wear all I earned even as enlisted I wore my expert rifle badge even as an officer. If I had to work in dress uniform every day I probably wouldn’t have due to laziness to transfer all of it between Uniforms

Response by COL Brian Shea made Dec 19 at 2018 7:42 PM

2018-12-19T19:42:11-05:00

BLUF: I would like to see officers wearing their qualification badges. As to the "Logic" posed by COL Smallfield: 1: The Individual/Collective thing is a training, not a war fighting concept. And I never considered a radio to be my primary weapon though I understand what you meant. I do agree that if a senior officer wound up killing the enemy with a sidearm something probably went wrong - like that radio thing didn't work. But it is just as important for an officer to be qualified as any Pvt. More so in fact. 2: Demonstrating that an officer is tactically sound via weapons qual will go a ways towards providing the purpose, motivation and direction you speak of. Not unlike max'ing the PT test. It's easier to lead if you are in front of the formation as opposed to behind it.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Dec 19 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-12-19T23:21:39-05:00

AF doesnt have marksmanship badges except for National Distinguished Pistol /Rifle. We do have a ribbon for each as does the Navy and Coast Guard.

Response by SPC Robert Wray made Dec 20 at 2018 3:55 PM

2018-12-20T15:55:59-05:00

They do go to the range to qualify

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 20 at 2018 10:20 PM

2018-12-20T22:20:54-05:00

Sorry, as a Marine I gotta do this.

Because they missed the target every round. Bah dump tsss

Maggie's drawers.

Response by LTC Joseph George made Dec 26 at 2018 6:33 AM

2018-12-26T06:33:34-05:00

Mostly because 98% of the officers in the Army today do not read or understand the regulations governing wear and apparel of the uniform. AR 670-1 states "ALL SOLDIERS" that includes all officers as well. Now that stated, those 98% of officers think they are "EXPERTS" and they only fool themselves and their soldiers. Today's Army Officer is a joke who cannot lead properly, is an abusive sot, a suck ass who can't think and is taught that in the programs like USMA, ROTC and to a lesser OCS. I spent 40 years in the Army both as an Enlisted/NCO and as a Commissioned Officer. The only prestige in the officer corps is the respect that one gets by true leadership and the adherence to the Army ethos. Wear those badges and show your soldiers you have room for improvement.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Jan 6 at 2019 11:46 AM

2019-01-06T11:46:14-05:00

From the comments here, it is evident that there is both considerable local variation on the wear/non-wear of marksmanship badges by officers as a "tradition", and a variance in that "tradition" over time as well. It is well to keep in mind that we are discussing "tradition" in the U. S. Army, an organization that is well over two centuries old. In such a venerable institution, 20-30 years ago might well be viewed as the equivalent of “last month” in a younger organization

A good deal of authority is exercised, if not arrogated, by commanders who "discourage" their officers from wearing marksmanship badges authorized, but not required, by regulations. That deprivation (or is it the providing of a “cover story” for poor marksmen) is done under the guise of “officer culture” and “tradition”. Other commanders take the opposite view, encouraging their officers to attain marksmanship skills and wear their qualification badges.
From all reports in the comments on this site, the pendulum of “culture” and “tradition” may have swung from favoring officers wearing their weapon qualifications to looking upon it unfavorably any number of times in the history of the Army. A quick run-through of pictures of WWII Generals available on-line did not turn up any of Generals Eisenhower, Bradley, or Patton wearing marksmanship badges. However, I did find one of General MacArthur with such badges displayed. Perhaps the Army practice that General Officers no longer wear their branch insignia extends to marksmanship badges as well, if they even fire for qualification. Whatever the case with the top brass, the comments here indicate many officers from the WWII era to the present day have “violated the tradition” of not wearing weapon qualification badges.

The result --- there is no standard, Army-wide consistency in the practice of officers wearing/not wearing marksmanship badges, and it appears there never has been --- neither over the various subordinate units comprising the present-day Army, nor over the history of the Army, as found in these comments. To call such a haphazard practice, varying greatly over both time and the many constituent units of the Army, a “tradition” and attempt to define it as “officer culture” suggests a need to rationalize a desired practice by giving it a false aura of a long-standing, universally accepted custom. From all that has been presented here, it is not.

Response by SGT Garry Wehr made Jan 8 at 2019 5:09 PM

2019-01-08T17:09:33-05:00

Why Not ?

Response by LTC James Washington made Jan 9 at 2019 11:05 AM

2019-01-09T11:05:20-05:00

I just saw an MOH post of MG Patrick Henry Brady who won the CMH in Vietnam as a helicopter pilot for a series of wounded evacuations under heavy fire. The official photo of him as MG show him wearing His expert badge with two bars. I followed his lead through LTC and wore mine with the rifle and pistol bars.

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Jan 16 at 2019 8:20 PM

2019-01-16T20:20:17-05:00

I earned my expert badge at age 14 with a .22 in military school. When I was a junior I qualified with the M-1, sharpshooter, I think. (It's been awhile.). I qualified again in college on both .22 and M-1. Then I qualified with the M-14 and M-16 as a lieutenant. I never wore a qualification badge after I was commissioned. Now, if I could have been allowed to attempt qualification for the artillery bar, I would have worn that one! BTW, how come the artillery badge is only for the gun crew - why not FDC or FO?

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jan 19 at 2019 4:11 PM

2019-01-19T16:11:57-05:00

I was enlisted before commissioned. Therefore i had to complete weapons qualifications. However, in Officer Crops, weapons qualifications were equally required if you were a Combat Engineer because of the many types of weapons we had to experience, not to mention demolitions; field and expedient.

Response by TSgt Raul Losoya made Jan 26 at 2019 6:21 PM

2019-01-26T18:21:20-05:00

They should every ribbon they earned including the marksmanship ribbon.

Response by MAJ Bruce Wenger made Jan 29 at 2019 10:00 AM

2019-01-29T10:00:51-05:00

I always wore my marksmanship badges with pride. I earned several when I was enlisted but continued to wear then when I was commissioned including those I earned as an officer. I think some officers didn't want to wear anything less than an expert badge so they decided not to wear anything.

Response by 2LT Hap Rocketto made Feb 10 at 2019 11:23 PM

2019-02-10T23:23:21-05:00

Never hesitated to wear my Distinguished Rifleman badge,

Response by 2LT Hap Rocketto made Feb 10 at 2019 11:24 PM

2019-02-10T23:24:40-05:00

Never hesitated to wear my Distinguished Rifleman Badge but did not wear lesser marksmanship awards when wore the gold Badge.

Response by Sgt Larry Dillon made Feb 11 at 2019 5:46 PM

2019-02-11T17:46:44-05:00

An officer who scores low may be ridiculed by enlisted as well. Throughout history most military leaders were not experts but appointed or payed the men themselves. Royals, wealthy and professional soldiers. Being able to multitask with most weapon systems in use would make sense if leading combat troops.

Response by Terry Pinion made Feb 15 at 2019 8:36 PM

2019-02-15T20:36:36-05:00

If the officer is using a rifle instead of cordenating the battle response of his unit and hes not a Specops officer cause in a small unit he very well may have to be shooting while also cordinating the effort, but in a platton of inf or company setting like the scene we see where hal moore took out a baynet chaging nva things have really gone to shit, and he still never let go of the radio and doing his primary responsibility of cordinating his batalions efforts to hold a perimter against overwealming numers of enemy troops, his troops got inserted at xray within less than a days march of more than 2 enemy divisons 1 battlion fighting for its life for the net 3 days piled up enemy bodies at better than 10 to 1 but the vietnamesse were willing to pay that price and their were 17 million north vietnamesse plus teh soutehrn communist against 500,000 american by 68 and whatever arvn had the arvn would have been better if their officers were promoted based on merit instead of politics

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Mar 3 at 2019 3:07 PM

2019-03-03T15:07:24-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member - I don't have any argument with the other posts I looked through, and I didn't review them all; although I would say it is a shame that things have been the way they were historically, perhaps it is time for a change.
I had (when I was stationed in Germany) a new LT come to take over the platoon I was in that had just transitioned from enlisted to officer. Many of the things that impressed me most about this officer were the strong influence on his behavior that having been enlisted provided him. The worst LT I ever had was one that was running the platoon I was assigned to at Fr Stewart, who was a recent academy graduate. Army officers are no more perfect than the people they were before they became officers. Everyone is flawed.
The thing to think about with regard to your dress uniform is who will see it and under what circumstances. Are the troops you are leading going to be the ones checking out your uniform or will it be the officers that are reviewing your performance. You don't want to show-up the people over you because they also control your advancement. The troops under you will discern your quality by your behavior.

Response by LTC John Layton made Mar 17 at 2019 2:44 PM

2019-03-17T14:44:10-04:00

As a former officer I can tell you that they do wear them; but I noticed the trend of only those earning Expert on their Dress Greens. Since ALL soldiers must earn 1 of the 3 rating in Rifle to even stay in after Graduation from their respective basic. The trend for non-combat officers to only have ever earned a Marksman in Rifle, feel inferior and often even ridiculed. This is a personal choice based on self assessed shortcoming. Rather then Stand Tall, Stand Proud they cower to NCO's and enlisted that have earned higher ratings than mere Marksman, given their own self entitlement, that only a college degree is needed to be a superior soldier...

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Mar 17 at 2019 10:23 PM

2019-03-17T22:23:37-04:00

I do not think so. I never wore them as a SSG. Even though I was a expert with my M14. As a warrant I qualified with a 38 and 45. I ran the Arms room as the PBO.

Response by CDR Logan Scott Ledbetter made Mar 25 at 2019 10:32 AM

2019-03-25T10:32:20-04:00

I guess you guys forget there are other branches of the service out there. I was an officer in the Navy, qualified Expert on rifle and pistol, and wore both of those ribbons as well as the associated medals when in the relevant uniform. The Navy doesn't have the pizza box type thingy, but does have and does wear marksmanship badges, officer and enlisted. Have a fine Navy day, Shipmates!

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Mar 29 at 2019 4:32 PM

2019-03-29T16:32:59-04:00

FWIW, I was Air Force, not Army, but every fellow officer I knew who earned the AF Small Arms Expert Ribbon wore it proudly on his/her service dress jacket.

Response by MAJ Victor Alarcon made Apr 4 at 2019 1:16 AM

2019-04-04T01:16:39-04:00

I went up from enlisted to O1and up the line. I was proud of my Expert Badges with rifle and 45 cal. I wore them as an officer.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Apr 22 at 2019 9:27 PM

2019-04-22T21:27:41-04:00

Maybe because they're aren't required to wear any, or maybe they're hoping the enlisted will be there doing their due diligence in protecting them, anyways there's got to be a good reason

Response by SPC Cesar Freytes made Apr 23 at 2019 1:17 PM

2019-04-23T13:17:05-04:00

You answered your own question.... its because officers cant shoot LOL

Response by MAJ Clyde Howell made Apr 23 at 2019 1:48 PM

2019-04-23T13:48:41-04:00

I always saw it as a matter of honoring enlisted soldiers. By not wearing marksmanship badges I wasn’t competing with them, even though I shot expert (38/39 out if 40). The same logic applied in not wearing the schutzenschnur rope that they wore. THEY are on the ground and in front. They get the glory.

Response by LTC John Bush made Apr 29 at 2019 6:48 PM

2019-04-29T18:48:23-04:00

I always wore mine and it was a point pf honor to be expert in my individual weapon and qualified on every weapon in my infantry unit, I can not remember any platoon leader that did not qualify expert. I also served in non Infantry units and no one was particularly concerned with anything but basic qualification. I think referring to officers in general is too broad. I think when you talk to an individual soldier he\she ought to be absolutely confident you know what you are talking about. In the case of a logistician core expertise is different from an infantryman. I have been both and as a logistician no one cared how well I could shoot but very intrested in how well I understood OST (order ship time management)

Response by SGT Charles Tittl made May 10 at 2019 1:12 AM

2019-05-10T01:12:32-04:00

Never saw an officer ever actually qualify... they usually just threw a bunch of 9mm downrange and didn't hit a darned thing...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2019 9:57 PM

2019-05-12T21:57:33-04:00

Spending some time in the training room and seeing some of the scores from the quals I would be ashamed and not wear the badge either. It was enlightening to me that the rest of the infantry is hammered to “have” to shoot expert and then to see the score cards for a few of the officers in ours and neighboring units.

Response by SPC Heath Hansen made May 26 at 2019 8:15 AM

2019-05-26T08:15:21-04:00

Probably the same reason they don’t wear good-conduct medals: it’s expected that they are experts with their weapons just like it’s expected they conduct themselves professionally at all times.

Response by CPT Ed Ferguson made May 26 at 2019 3:41 PM

2019-05-26T15:41:02-04:00

In my experiences prior to deployment train-up for Iraq, Officers only qualified with the pistol. My MTO&E weapon was a pistol even though I was issued and assigned an M-16. In our training for deployment, everyone was required to qualify with the M4 and the M9 in both day and night situations. I never thought about wearing my marksmanship badge on my uniform as I was enlisted in the Marine Corps prior to being commissioned as an Officer. I qualified Expert each year for the 8 years I served on active duty in the Marine Corps.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2019 6:31 PM

2019-05-26T18:31:13-04:00

While there are many opinions on the efficacy of officer's wearing marksmanship badges, I would only offer this simpler observation. In addition to leading by example officers should also strive for humility. At a certain point too many things on the uniform actually look gaudy and less than professional.

Response by COL Peter Anderson made May 26 at 2019 8:38 PM

2019-05-26T20:38:29-04:00

Check my photo and you will see marksmanship badges on my uniform.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2019 10:28 PM

2019-05-26T22:28:31-04:00

If they earned them, why not

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2019 12:33 AM

2019-05-27T00:33:48-04:00

I would expect officers to wear all earned badges. It's not just about showing off, but showing experience. I would think it would be more difficult for one to inspire excellence if they are not also exceeding. Leading from the front also comes to mind.

Response by PFC Brian Hoyt made May 27 at 2019 7:45 PM

2019-05-27T19:45:59-04:00

Marine officers wear them. Actually everyone in the Corp is considered a rifleman.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2019 6:43 AM

2019-05-29T06:43:08-04:00

I am Mustang, I earned my marksmanship badges as enlisted and maintained the same raiting as an officer. I still wear my badges on my Officer uniform. Yes, that is a break from tradition. However it also links my career as crossing over both enlisted and officer time.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made May 29 at 2019 10:25 AM

2019-05-29T10:25:10-04:00

Because as a commissioned officer, it's expected that you will be proficient in marksmanship. For the same reason, officers don't get good conduct medals, good conduct is the standard. On the flipside, there's no such thing as conduct unbecoming an enlisteman nor conduct unbecoming an NCO nor conduct unbecoming a WO but there is conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. Rank hath its privileges but it also hath its responsibilities.

Response by SFC Daniel Hardin made May 29 at 2019 9:27 PM

2019-05-29T21:27:20-04:00

To be perfectly clear, every Soldier who has attained the requisite proficiency can wear the appropriate badge. This is irrespective of rank and you need look no further than AR 670-1 to know it is so. It actually shows a picture of where to place it on male and female officer uniforms.

Some of the other comments allude to the beong experts across a variety of skills and I have personally heard this argument before on several occasions. Generally, I can tell you that given the level of proficiency some of us attain; I might also be inclined to not showcase to the world my skillsets limitations. The basis of this position is frankly sorely lacking. To say I don't wear something I've earned because I was supposed to be great at it to begin with might as well form an argument for not wearing any awards at all. Simply put: All Leaders are supposed to be subject matter experts and our expectations are higher as a matter of course, but if you're embarrassed by your own proficiency to the point you avoid showcasing it; then you're lying to yourself and your Soldiers when you imply expertise not earned.

Bottom Line: Never, ever insinuate to anyone that you are something you are not.

Others speak of the officer's role as being more aligned with collective rather than individual training. I would argue your role is more in planning than execution as every Soldier is directly involved in training at all levels. Who's doing the leg-work on all the training you plan? Your NCOs, who wear their badges whether it is marksman or expert. I fail to see a connection between showcasing personal skill and how it might translate to an officer's role in training development.

Whether you wear it or not, your Soldiers go to the range with you and generally they remember things like having to jam more mags for you or help you zero. I personally love teaching and am always willing to help. Currently I teach officer's in ABOLC. I have these types of conversations almost daily with the Tactics Officers (I literally spoke with one CPT yesterday about this very subject). But I'll tell you this that I learned from being an Army Instructor who teaches Lieutenants every day, one of the very few who gets to train their future bosses; you can gain the measure of an officer (or anyone) by how they see themselves and skirt that line between cocky and confident. I personally have a healthy respect for those (very few) Lieutenants who own mistakes and deficiencies in front of their peers and ask me how to fix their personal shortcomings. This Lieutenant is likely to be successful as he/she is always trying to be better. The flipside is the Lieutenant in the back of the huddle, not asking questions and nodding as if they understand, he fails because he doesn't understand fundamentals and only asks questions when he can pull you aside. In that officer's mind, shortcomings=weakness and he will only admit it when there is no other alternative. This person has higher potential to make horrible decisions and get people killed.

Now I know, I went off to an extreme, negative tangent but to my mind it's an integrity issue. If someone is unwilling to show their faults and own them they are unlikely to improve. I say, in your command, go the opposite way with it. Force everyone to wear their current qual level. Maybe the good-natured ribbing your Captains and Lieutenants eat for it will be the catalyst for them buckling down and improving so they can proudly earn the expertise they so flippantly claim.

I apologize for my psuedo-sarcastic and probably aggressive tone, but I care about our Leadership climate and its seeming shift during my career.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2019 12:30 PM

2019-05-30T12:30:46-04:00

So if I remember the history about this, it dates back to the Continental Army. COL Smallfield is correct in that there is no regulation prohibiting this, and that it is a culture part of officers.

In the Continental Army if you were an officer, it was expected that you were already an “expert” marksman. It ended up becoming a tradition, though nowadays that is not always the case.

Response by Sgt John Gray made May 30 at 2019 2:09 PM

2019-05-30T14:09:20-04:00

The Maine’s Corps commissioned officer ranks also wear their marksmanship medals. Every Marine is a rifleman first!

Response by Sgt Raymond Mirabile made Jun 1 at 2019 12:24 AM

2019-06-01T00:24:53-04:00

Marine Officers wear their shooting medals.

Response by MAJ William Silvia made Jun 1 at 2019 3:11 PM

2019-06-01T15:11:14-04:00

They train only with pistols and train must less than line soldiers. They are considered last line of defense

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2019 8:37 AM

2019-06-02T08:37:27-04:00

I tend to disagree with any separation in uniform articles. I believe that officers and enlisted should wear uniform articles alike. Another example is the AF (which I’m currently serving). When wearing the service blue uniform, officers are permitted to wear their ribbons but very few do. However, the regulation does not prohibit wearing them. Maybe it is my prior enlisted roots, but I wear that chest candy proudly. It is a sense of pride that I earned my decorations and ribbons.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2019 10:42 AM

2019-06-02T10:42:06-04:00

I'm not sure of the factual reason why officers dont wear the marksmanship badge, but here is what I was told as a WO1:
Officers are assumed to be experts with their weapon and anything less displayed on their uniform discredits that assumption.

Response by 1LT Scott Perrin made Jun 2 at 2019 7:05 PM

2019-06-02T19:05:17-04:00

Back when I was a 2Lt We did wear marksman ship badges.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Jun 2 at 2019 9:42 PM

2019-06-02T21:42:13-04:00

I served 7 years as an enlisted Soldier and later as an NCO before being commissioned as an Officer. As an enlisted Soldier and NCO, I earned weapons qualification badges in Pistol / Rifle / Grenade and also a Driver's Badge for (wheeled and track) vehicles. When I commissioned as an Officer, I was told by my Battalion Commander not to wear my weapons qualification or driver's badges. He said that all Officers are expected to be proficient tacticians in the weapons and vehicles their troops operate, and as such, enlisted troops should expect that their leaders are proficient without looking to compare their level of proficiency against that of an Officer - which could lead to an Enlisted Soldier or NCO wrongfully comparing their tactical proficiency (if better than the Officer) against an Officer's ability to lead. Now we all know that shooting skills have nothing to do with one's rank - I have witnessed great shooters in all ranks, and as a former Firearms Instructor and Range Master, I have spent days on the range with a few Agents, Enlisted Soldiers and Officers (fairly new to the military or government) in an effort to get them qualified on their weapons. Later, these same troops or agents become Expert shooters and some learned to master several different weapons. I often spent much time on the range with a SFC, a SGM and a CW2 who made me into shooter I am today... those guys could shoot the wings off of flies! Do I think Officers should wear qualification / proficiency badges... for Official Photos (always), and optional for the individual officer to decide, or may be it should be worn by Officers who were once enlisted in order to distinguish between Mustang Officers and those without prior Enlisted service.

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Jun 3 at 2019 12:33 AM

2019-06-03T00:33:09-04:00

All should, most don't because they could not hit the barn if they were inside, and aiming....

Response by LTC Michael Keenan made Jun 3 at 2019 1:06 PM

2019-06-03T13:06:52-04:00

I earned my Expert marksmanship badge in basic training. After nine years of enlisted service I received my commission, served another 20 years, ad always wore my Expert badge. No one ever questioned me about it. As long as there is no regulation forbidding wearing the badge, if youearned it, then wear it..

Response by CW3 Joseph Lawrence made Jun 3 at 2019 3:12 PM

2019-06-03T15:12:35-04:00

Once I was getting a photo for my records and ran into a Colonel who started to chastise me for wearing my Expert Badge. I explained to him that the regulation that governs the wear of badges says all (that means everyone) so I wear my badge proudly. I can imagine some officers being embarrassed by wearing a Marksman Badge, but if I was a Marksman I would still wear it proudly. Everything on your uniform was earned at one point or another and you should have pride in what your earned and the appearance of your uniform.

Response by Sgt Mike Cael made Jun 3 at 2019 9:44 PM

2019-06-03T21:44:20-04:00

In the Marines, we all wear Marksmanship badges whether officer or enlisted. All Marines must qualify annually with the rifle and wear the badge for the level they shot that year. SNCOs and officers must also qualify with the pistol every year and wear the badge for that level.

Response by TSgt Gwen Walcott made Jun 4 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-06-04T11:02:31-04:00

Because the enlisted Work for a Living
Officers drink coffee and supervise

Response by LTC Martin Glynn made Jun 4 at 2019 8:34 PM

2019-06-04T20:34:20-04:00

Yes, I think officers should wear them. I’m a retired LTC now, but when I was a 1LT in the 82nd Airborne Division, I learned that the 75th Ranger Regiment requires officers to wear marksmanship badges (and they’d better be Expert Marksman badges). So I decided to go ahead and wear one as well. I was required to qualify with my assigned weapon(s) every year, and I always scored Expert, so why not wear it?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2019 9:18 AM

2019-06-05T09:18:10-04:00

It was my experience when I served that most officers were badge bunnies anyhow so don't even get me started on the "Skillcraft Qualification". They would be sent to schools merely because of their rank to earn badges for skills that they would never use in the future. At Fort Campbell you would rarely, if ever see an officer without Airborne Wings, Air Assault Wings and a Pathfinder badge despite holding a logistics or clerical MOS. They never jumped again after Airborne School, never rappelled from a helo and damn sure never went out and established a forward LZ.
Additionally, they would go for the German Armed Forces Badge which in my day was an 18 mile ruck march for gold that is now 7.5 miles or the Schutzenschnur. The got Bronze Stars for staying inside the wire and working in an air conditioned TOC while the PFC would was running patrols in full kit in 120deg heat getting shot at got an AAM.
Am I a little bitter? Hell yeah and I'll bet there are thousands on this site that can attest to what I say.

Response by LTC Donald Donahue made Jun 7 at 2019 10:05 AM

2019-06-07T10:05:03-04:00

An interesting exchange. I recall once hearing that this is also a cultural issue, much like why in the day there were separate officer, NCO, and enlisted clubs. An Army specific observation, but back in the days of paper personnel records, officers’ GT scores were not reflected on the DA Form 2 and 2-1.
I would also note that this is not unique to the US. The Bundeswehr’s Schützenschnur badge – the far fancier equivalent to our marksmanship badges, can only be worn by enlisted.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Jun 12 at 2019 1:27 PM

2019-06-12T13:27:52-04:00

Well, in my experience, because most but certainly not all officers only qualify Marksman, if they do qualify. Me I do wear them, but what the heck I'm a retired CPT!

Response by SFC Michael Peterson made Jun 29 at 2019 12:42 PM

2019-06-29T12:42:46-04:00

An Officer's weapon is the Soldiers he commands. There's no badge for that but, if he's proficient with it, he shouldn't have a need for another one, except to snuggle with when he's in the field.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jul 2 at 2019 11:10 PM

2019-07-02T23:10:45-04:00

Officers not wearing marksmanship badges must be a new thing I am a RVN vet and when in class A and above we wore marksmanship badges.

Response by Sgt Jim Wirrell made Jul 18 at 2019 2:27 PM

2019-07-18T14:27:59-04:00

Not true for Marine Corps officers

Response by LTC Garry Stonecipher made Jul 18 at 2019 3:16 PM

2019-07-18T15:16:25-04:00

Why not if earned

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jul 19 at 2019 7:55 AM

2019-07-19T07:55:29-04:00

Marine officer wear marksmanship awards.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 11:49 PM

2019-07-19T23:49:47-04:00

I always wore my marksmanship badges after OCS. When other officers said I shouldn't, I'd point to the reg. It really isn't my problem if you're embarrassed because you can't shoot well.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jul 20 at 2019 4:48 PM

2019-07-20T16:48:01-04:00

In my old units nearly every officer was an expert marksman. I know this because I was range OIC and ran a lot of them through. None of us wore the badge however. I never really gave it deep thought as to why.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Jul 22 at 2019 10:01 PM

2019-07-22T22:01:44-04:00

Most officers would respond with a reason, to lead is to inspire, and if my qualification is not up to snuff, therefore how can I lead. Officer or Enlisted regardless of rank, some people shoot excellent, and other's, well lets just be truthful, they suck!! Shooting is a learned skill, and is perishable one at that; if you as an officer want to lead by an example and inspire your troops, then hit the range more than once a year; organize shooting competitions at the unit level to inspire your soldiers to learn to shoot better, not just a rifle, but with a handgun/pistol what ever is in your units armory. We are all Infantry; we need these skills, and what a better way to improve your skills getting that expert shooting badge while wearing it with pride on your chest to inspire and lead by example, because you truly earned it. Not only that "Sir," I promise your shit isn't in the wind for two reasons; one, you spent some time having fun training with your troops, working with and learning marksmanship. Two, when the time comes on the battlefield, you and your soldiers are wasting less ammo due to familiarity of weapons and greater confidence of shooting skills, which means less wounded on your side of the ditch and more on theirs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2019 10:39 PM

2019-07-22T22:39:46-04:00

As was explained to me it’s more of a tradition than a regulation. I have never seen anything in AR 670-1 profiting officers from wearing the badges.

Response by MSgt George Fillgrove made Jul 24 at 2019 9:18 AM

2019-07-24T09:18:00-04:00

I thought it was a matter of practice and not regulation. A practice related to officer leadership and the fact that an officer is expected, by virtue of rank, to be an expert on such matters. However, it isn't a uniform practice, as I have seen Army officers wearing their badges. In my case, in the Air Force, marksmanship proficiency is demonstrated by a ribbon and not a badge -- a ribbon that is sought after regardless of officer or enlisted. As you can see, I'm proudly wearing mine and still remember the cold, wet, windy day I earned it.

Response by LtCol Joe Waldron made Jul 25 at 2019 9:44 AM

2019-07-25T09:44:52-04:00

Marine officers do. Part of the uniform, and besides, you EARNED it (not like a lot of the things I see on others uniforms).

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Jul 25 at 2019 4:58 PM

2019-07-25T16:58:53-04:00

I like the discussion here. In my experience, I've either had officers who can't shoot and aren't necessarily required to due to the fact that they are leading troops and directing PLT SGTs and SQD LDRs to place fire at whatever location needed at the time OR I've had officers who shoot better than anyone in the company/battery/troop and they are told by their CO or BC to "not be a cowboy." There's also the reality that your marksmanship badge will help you out in promotions and boards on the enlisted side (in most cases), but it's sort of a moot point on the officer side as officers are often expected to be the best. So it seems unnecessary for an officer to put on a marksmanship badge in some circles. That shouldn't take away from the fact that every trooper, regardless of rank, gender, or branch of service, should be proficient with their assigned weapon because if you cross the LD, there WILL come a time in which you need to use it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2019 7:11 PM

2019-07-26T19:11:24-04:00

When I was in SF as an officer we all wore our marksmanship badges, from our Group Commander on down. And, as an ODA commander you were required to qualify with your team on all weapons, not just a side arm, and yes I know some will say SF we have a different mission than most, but still we generally wore all skill badges. The big difference now is that there are a lot more skill badges awarded than in the late 70's, so you are limited on both sides of the house on how many you can wear on Dress uniforms as I understand it.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Jul 28 at 2019 8:57 AM

2019-07-28T08:57:18-04:00

If no other officers wear them then no.

Response by LTC Christopher Hills made Jul 28 at 2019 11:02 PM

2019-07-28T23:02:19-04:00

No disrespect to those who responded otherwise and i dont disagree with comments about our roles synchronizing and leading the group. But, i was an OCS commission and many of us wore our marksmanship badges. I was expert rifle and pistol, and happy to wear it. As a paratrooper, we were all expected to be infantry until the objective was seized and then whatever role you transition to later. Infantry first.... and thank God i could shoot or i’d be dead today. One of the greatest men i ever worked for, LTG Robert Flowers used to say ... “Be in great physical shape, be an expert with your weapon and know your job. If you do that your men will follow you and you will succeed.” My soldiers were proud to see that the old man could hold his own on the battlefield and i had earned the right to wear it so I did. Airborne all the Way!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 12:24 AM

2019-07-29T00:24:15-04:00

This is obviously an Army cultural issue or tradition. I can say with rare exception ALL Marines wear rifle and pistol badges when appropriate.

Response by SFC Byron Perry made Jul 29 at 2019 5:45 PM

2019-07-29T17:45:58-04:00

They don't want to show the enlisted that they are bad at Marksmanship.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 2 at 2019 11:23 PM

2019-08-02T23:23:49-04:00

YES!

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 4 at 2019 4:33 PM

2019-08-04T16:33:37-04:00

Why not?

Response by COL Benny Richardson made Aug 8 at 2019 12:29 PM

2019-08-08T12:29:05-04:00

As a 2LT I earned the Excellence in Competition Bronze Rifle Badge at Ft. Campbell, KY in 1989. I wore that badge proudly on my class A and dress blues until the day I retired as an 0-6. I served a year on the Army Staff at the Pentagon and two years on the Joint Staff at National Guard Bureau. Not once in my career did I ever have anyone question why i wore it. However I was asked more times than I can count how one can earn the right to wear it. While it is for the most part tradition a lot of officers do not wear the marksmanship badge on their uniform, I would not think twice if I saw an officer who did. There are much more important things to think about than that.

Response by LTC John Czarnecki made Aug 8 at 2019 4:12 PM

2019-08-08T16:12:25-04:00

I turned in my SGT stripes for 2LT bars a very long time ago. But as a 1LT I had the happy occasion to earn the US Army Distinguished Rifleman Badge, which is a 10K solid gold hunk that is about as rare as a Tomb Guard Badge. I retired as a LTC, but damn sure still wore my DDB-R, despite having the occasional CSM who'd never seen one tell me that it was unauthorized.

Response by MSG William Hesser made Aug 28 at 2019 2:25 PM

2019-08-28T14:25:33-04:00

Usually only the officers that came up through the ranks in front line units won't be qualified for them.
All of our officers in the SF were at a minimum earned their EIB and many also earned their CIB during tours in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

As far as the "bolo" badges, I have never worn mine. Since those of us in SF had to qualify Expert with all weapons every year, our "crossed arrows" and SF tab says it all.
I am sure the Ranges are the same situation.
Officers in other branches usually don't have much of an opportunity to earn them. So if they have, usually are glad to wear them.

Response by PFC David Gettman made Aug 31 at 2019 4:06 PM

2019-08-31T16:06:16-04:00

Dad always wore his Distinguished Marksman Badge no matter his rank, from the time he was awarded the badge in 1935 as a PFC in the National Guard all through the enlisted ranks, as an officer (WW II battlefield commission), and as a warrant officer in the Regular Army between 1942-71. He was wearing it when he was buried in 1983.

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Aug 31 at 2019 5:44 PM

2019-08-31T17:44:37-04:00

All gentlemen must know how to shoot.
Therefore, no sense in giving out medals to all of them.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Sep 1 at 2019 8:37 AM

2019-09-01T08:37:50-04:00

Did a quick search for USMC Commandants images - Most are wearing marksmanship badges in Class A 's Dress blues not so much. While I do not disagree with Col Smallfield I would contend that the Marine corps mindset is slightly different in that we instill the mindset that every Marine is a rifleman FIRST. Those who master this skill are held in higher regard. I was always taught a good leader leads by example. I did not expect my squadron CO to be able to rewire a huey or troubleshoot the chin turret of a cobra but he better be able to pick up that M-16 and put holes in the black at 500 Meters!

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Sep 1 at 2019 12:15 PM

2019-09-01T12:15:17-04:00

They can if they want to

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Sep 2 at 2019 12:39 AM

2019-09-02T00:39:06-04:00

I wore my expert rifle badge. Authorized several other marksmanship badges but just wore the one as all those bars under the expert badge were a nuisance.

Response by CW3 William Oxx made Sep 2 at 2019 1:18 PM

2019-09-02T13:18:31-04:00

All the Warrant Officers, to include myself, wore them. AR670-1 authorizes them if you have earned them.

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Sep 4 at 2019 9:27 AM

2019-09-04T09:27:40-04:00

Because they do not want to be embarrassed ... LMAO /////

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Sep 4 at 2019 3:28 PM

2019-09-04T15:28:00-04:00

Marine officers do.

Response by MAJ Bruce Wenger made Sep 6 at 2019 10:29 AM

2019-09-06T10:29:50-04:00

I was prior enlisted Special Forces and continued to wear my marksmanship badges after I received a direct commission in the JAG Corp. Nobody ever quested me.

Response by MSgt Joseph Holness made Sep 6 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-09-06T18:18:26-04:00

Well quite honestly, the way things are going in this country concerning the displaying of certain inanimate objects, I'm surprised that the display of a any kind of weapon ie "gun" on a military uniform hasn't been banned by the "oversensitive & fragile" civilian types out there (lol) It would be great though if there could be a change of the Enlisted MOS Badges / Emblems for our Class-A's that didn't look so cheezee and non-descript like they currently do. I was an Army 19E & 19K before my USAF years and never cared for that little brass button representation of our MOS while the officers got to wear one that let everybody know that they were a Tanker.

Response by MAJ Michael Berry made Sep 6 at 2019 7:40 PM

2019-09-06T19:40:03-04:00

Served ten years enlisted before OCS. I continued to wear my assigned weapon qualification badge and the driver (track & wheel) that I earned while in the mech infantry. Had several (officer) supervisions, over the years, who required me to remove both qualification badges and the rest of my supervisions didn’t care or were indifferent.

Response by SPC Thomas Smith made Sep 8 at 2019 1:46 PM

2019-09-08T13:46:23-04:00

To be honest I never notice or even thought about it. As a former enlisted, I would just go from how I perceived officers and that was they were suppose to be better than enlisted. One way to leave that perception intact would be to not show weakness. Yes I know that they are not better and in fact can not compete in many areas but why not leave the impression anyway. Just my thoughts

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2019 3:18 AM

2019-09-09T03:18:27-04:00

When I was Infantry, I was told that officers didn’t wear those because it was expected that we all shot expert, so there was no need for a show of any delineation if we were all expected to be at the same standard as infantry officers, which was expert riflemen. Same as grenadier goes.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Sep 10 at 2019 6:59 PM

2019-09-10T18:59:16-04:00

I asked my father the same question. My father was a WW2 veteran (87th Mt. Infantry Reg. 10th Mt. Div.) and retired LTC of infantry. When I was an ROTC cadet I noticed the same thing and noticed he did not wear marksmanship badges in any of his pictures. So, probably around 1973 when I came home from basic and was very proud of my expert rifle badge, I asked him why don't officers were marksmanship badges. His reply, based on my memory, was something like this: officers are expected to be expert marksman. He also said something about they should go to the range again and again and again until they are expert marksmen. (Remember, that is the opinion of a WW2 infantry officer.)

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2019 9:30 PM

2019-09-15T21:30:47-04:00

I had been told during WOCS that you only wear the marksmanship badge if you had qualified in that weapon within the year. After seeing this question posted, I did some reading and found the following: DA PAM 670-1 paragraph 20-15b Where Worn: “Marksmanship badges are worn on the Army service/dress uniform coat and service uniform shirt. Female personnel may also wear marksmanship badges on the maternity tunic. Soldiers may wear marksmanship badges unless they fail to qualify in accordance with AR 350–1 or are exempt from qualification by Army regulations.” Therefore, I think the “may” verbiage has allowed officers to not “HAVE TO” put on the marksmanship badge on the uniform. Besides the fact that, in my experience, with JAG and Medical Corp officers they don’t qualify as often as other branches/units (that’s now changing with the focus on readiness/metrics) and thus, in my humble opinion, officers decide not go through the trouble of ever adding it to their uniform. To be honest, no one looking at their uniforms is really checking if they qualified within the year and are wearing the correct authorized one (unless they do it for a DA Photo that is)... I’m thinking more a dining in/out scenario.

Response by CPL Robert Short made Sep 17 at 2019 9:00 PM

2019-09-17T21:00:42-04:00

I am trying to go back in as a Officer.

If I do, you bet your booties that I will still wear my mortar qual badge and CIB unless some reg comes out explicitly forbidding it.

Response by MAJ Kevin Suitor made Sep 18 at 2019 2:10 PM

2019-09-18T14:10:41-04:00

I wore mine, prior service, earned them.

Response by MAJ Jim Cook made Sep 20 at 2019 7:49 PM

2019-09-20T19:49:56-04:00

In my Army Officers worn them. You don't like what you achieved you tried harder.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 23 at 2019 3:00 PM

2019-09-23T15:00:29-04:00

Basic rifle marksmanship only

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Sep 24 at 2019 11:29 PM

2019-09-24T23:29:44-04:00

Don't know about the Army, the navy only requires the highest 3 awards, unless its a full dress inspection or function.

Response by CMSgt Darin Haitsuka made Oct 5 at 2019 2:03 AM

2019-10-05T02:03:24-04:00

I've seen some officers wearing them. The ones that do know how to shoot and are "expert".

Maybe the ones that don't are shame since they don't know how to shoot?

Response by PO1 Neil Brennan made Oct 5 at 2019 2:39 PM

2019-10-05T14:39:48-04:00

They don't give marksmanship badges for either shooing yourself in the foot or shooting your mouth off.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Oct 6 at 2019 6:11 PM

2019-10-06T18:11:52-04:00

A matter of honor, should wear it.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Oct 6 at 2019 8:36 PM

2019-10-06T20:36:42-04:00

Probably because they can't hit the broad side of a barn I used to laugh at them on the ranges making asses of them selves. It's hilarious just watching them. Seriously some of them are pretty good however some stink. they don't even need a nerf gun.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Oct 9 at 2019 2:49 PM

2019-10-09T14:49:41-04:00

Marine Officers wear marksmanship badges. I see no reason why those of other services wouldn't but I do not know the regs for the other branches.

Response by Capt Ed Turner made Oct 9 at 2019 4:52 PM

2019-10-09T16:52:35-04:00

In the Marine Corps, all officers wear rifle and pistol marksmanship badges regardless of MOS. Marines are Marines are Marines are Marines.
The minimum acceptable standard is expert - if not qualified as such, every time one puts on their uniform, there is the reminder that it needs to be. (FWIW as a supply officer - I qualified expert rifle and sharpshooter pistol).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2019 9:35 AM

2019-10-11T09:35:54-04:00

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made Oct 11 at 2019 1:45 PM

2019-10-11T13:45:03-04:00

Navy Officers and Enlisted wear marksmanship ribbons or small/large medals on their uniforms depending on what is proscribed for the specific uniform.

Response by GySgt Ken Norwood made Oct 12 at 2019 12:42 AM

2019-10-12T00:42:25-04:00

When I was in the Marines, Retired Aug 1990. Marine officers wore shooting badges, still do from what I have seen. Whether or not to wear shooting badges was always determined by the uniform of the day,, fir example Charlie uniform with ribbons and badges...

Response by Sgt Lester Mount made Oct 12 at 2019 12:38 PM

2019-10-12T12:38:06-04:00

Marine officers were marksmanship badges.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2019 12:50 PM

2019-10-12T12:50:49-04:00

This obviously an Army thing, all Marines generally wear earned shooting badges. Some officers opt out, likely because they have “pizza boxes”...marksman.

Response by SgtMaj Mark Davis made Oct 13 at 2019 8:18 AM

2019-10-13T08:18:46-04:00

Maybe in the army, but in the Marine Corps they do. Then again, we don't have the cultural gap between officer and enlisted like the other services do. We are collectively Marines whether you are a PFC or a GO. Additionally, NCOs/SNCOs fill many billets in the Corps that are filled by officers in the other services and a much lower officer to enlisted ratio.

Response by MSG Mark Stinson made Oct 13 at 2019 9:54 PM

2019-10-13T21:54:57-04:00

I had a funny experience with a Major with a Ranger Tab. While I was the Operation’s NCO (S-3), of an Infanty Battalion we had a weapons qualification. When I left the firing line this Major with a big smile came up to me and said, “I just shot a 39 out of 40, how did you shoot?” I smil;ed back and showing him my target said, “thanks commendable Sir , I shot a 40 out of 40.” The Major, which by the way was a really nice guy and we were friends, frowned and returned to the firing line two more times but shot a lower score. I guess he felt that it wasn’t right in his world for a Long Tab to shoot better than a Short Tab. It was hilarious.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Oct 14 at 2019 6:15 AM

2019-10-14T06:15:48-04:00

One of two reasons:
It's not cool and officers have to be cool.
They can't shoot worth a shit.

Response by SSG Randall Ford made Oct 14 at 2019 4:34 PM

2019-10-14T16:34:28-04:00

Yes. The uniforms the uniform. It shows pride and professionalism. Are officers ashamed of the fact they have weaknesses where strength is essential. Most officers are not really qualified in their MOS or real leadership. I remember a captain that was a Provost Marshal that had his college degree in botany. An officer needs to show they at least qualify as a sharpshooter. Less is not acceptable. I can show more respect for a junior grade enlisted any time just by experience alone. Forget the dining ins and other political games that are player. As an NCO I was expected and required to maintain a level of expertise passing it on to junior enlisted soldiers to be carried on for future troops that get the job done. Officers may be required only to a certain level. There are to many and at least 75% or more should be RIFD and place NCOS in those position that can do a better job and cost taxpayers a lot less in wages and benefits afforded to those that can't qualify up to standards.

Response by SSG Ed Kirk made Oct 14 at 2019 6:03 PM

2019-10-14T18:03:24-04:00

Way back in the Horse Cavalry I always told my CO, the Officers and Warrants over me that the reason Officers don't wear marksmanship badges is because they couldn't hit a cow in the ass with a snow shovel from a foot away! I had a 2LT from VMI, (who wasn't salty enough to know that a lowly SSG could have humor AND the respect of most of my Officers), that I had for the majority of them, and challenged me to a match!? I immediately had huge grin and a hard on and accepted! The CO, who had seen me shoot, advised him to forget it, of course he didn't. He chose the 16, 60, (we were an Aviation unit in Vietnam), and (God I love big egos), the Colt 45! My CO asked me to take it a bit easy on him, I sorta did EXCEPT for my beloved 45. Suffice it to say we Enlisted and most of the Officers won a lot of drinks that day! We all shared a lot of laughs and the CO, God Rest His Soul, forbade the Butter Bar to ever attempt to fire a 60 again!! It was fun and he became my very favorite Butter Bar and close friend! "You know who you are M.S. from Armor Branch!" GOD REST ALL THE FALLEN AND THE FORGOTTEN FROM ALL WARS! GOD SAVE OUR COUNTRY!!

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Oct 14 at 2019 6:41 PM

2019-10-14T18:41:43-04:00

My career began in the old "Brown Boot Army" as an E-1. I soon found myself on a Army (NG)Marksmanship team and competing at Camp Perry. I moved up in rank after completing the 6th U.S. Army NCO Academy. Then OCS graduating and being awarded the Leadership award. During this time I never gave up shooting and earning ever Expert Badge I could. Then came a warning!!

I was advised Officers who competed in rifle/pistol marksmanship would not find this career enhancing and showing continued interest would not help me (officers) in future assignments.
So, is this still part of the Army culture today? If the AR's allow wearing appropriate earned awards
for Officers and NCO's they should be worn without predigest, but with pride.

Lastly, how many reading this truly understand your uniform and the non-verbal massage it sends to others. Duty to Blues, what is on the your uniform, rank, badges, stripes, pins etc. says a lot about you. Where you come/came from. Back ground, years of service, combat role, Milt. Training, specialty training and so much more. From this and more, able to assume (in part) your level of education. Staff and Command/Leadership experience. Why not add a shooting badge if you choose.
My shooting skills helped me survive and I wear my CIB and expert badges with pride.

If you are an officer and reading this, feel comfortable doing the same.

LTC. Lee Bouchard

Response by LTC John Bush made Oct 15 at 2019 6:55 PM

2019-10-15T18:55:00-04:00

I always wore mine and most junior infantry officers I knew did also, We all endeavored to fire expert after all that was our primary function. However as a field grade officer and a combat infantryman I usually just wore the CIB, what else matters really?

Response by 1SG Bernhard Mattulat made Oct 16 at 2019 11:42 AM

2019-10-16T11:42:26-04:00

Optionable except for DOD Master file folder...ALL awards and decorations required.

Response by SGT Gene Schwenke made Oct 16 at 2019 2:06 PM

2019-10-16T14:06:17-04:00

I’m not sure if there is any regulation saying whether they should or should not wear them.

Response by SGT Tom Moore made Oct 16 at 2019 9:21 PM

2019-10-16T21:21:19-04:00

Too once told me If I qualify expert with my m9 then In the court of public opinion I am not able to miss. Prosecutors will remind the journey you are an expert shot. Shoot sharpshooter and you can leave laudable doubt about your accidents

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2019 8:49 AM

2019-10-17T08:49:31-04:00

Yes. But they should wear them properly. That photo looks terrible. 1/8 inch, says so in AR 670-1. That Army regulation also includes officers uniforms. Look it up:)

Response by SGT John Kristjansson made Oct 18 at 2019 8:23 PM

2019-10-18T20:23:07-04:00

Officers aren’t supposed to compete directly with enlisted/noncoms. Would you want to follow a “Marksman” if you shot “expert?”

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Nov 7 at 2019 7:25 AM

2019-11-07T07:25:23-05:00

I had never dealt with that while in the military because I spent most of it in Nam. My belief, based on nothing more than personal belief is that if they are less than an expert, that lowers them in the eyes of the men under them. Image counts. As a Marine Sgt. the rank got as much if not more respect than I would have had as a Lance Cpl. In truth, I did not earn that rank. I just never got killed or hurt but developed experience in a combat zone. I never went to NCO school, learned the rules, etc. I also was there for 32 months.

Response by LCpl Victor Stringer made Nov 21 at 2019 12:30 PM

2019-11-21T12:30:19-05:00

If they earned them, they should ware ther.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Nov 22 at 2019 4:50 PM

2019-11-22T16:50:51-05:00

Maybe they can't hit anything with a rifle LOL

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Nov 22 at 2019 8:58 PM

2019-11-22T20:58:47-05:00

Most Marine officers wear their marksmanship badges.

Response by LTC Ed Kennedy made Nov 23 at 2019 11:20 AM

2019-11-23T11:20:44-05:00

As an expert marksman with the rifle, machinegun and pistol my entire career as an enlisted and commissioned officer, I found that many of my contemporaries could not hit the side of a barn. They could not shoot straight. Infantrymen with "Bolo" badges; e.g., "Marksman" or "Sharpshooter" badges were embarrassed and therefore advocated NOT wearing the badges. Unlike the Marines, who value marksmanship, our Army "Trainfire" "qualification" (implemented in 1958) does not instill precision shooting. Qualification is a check-the-block requirement whereas my Marine buddies take shooting to a much higher level. Check-it-out...…..photos of Army officers up to WWII showed them wearing the qualification badges. Few..... with notable exceptions ……Medal of Honor recipient COL Robert Howard being one …. show them wearing the badges after the Korean War. Bottom line: because we don't shoot well and most cannot be "Experts", they are against wearing the badges. Too bad. We need to take a lesson from our Marine buddies who are serious about shooting. I've run the known distance range that used to be at Fort Riley for the Marines and watched how they do it. They are superb at teaching and practicing rifle marksmanship and it is not a "check-the-box" exercise for them.

Response by TSgt Gwen Walcott made Nov 24 at 2019 4:02 PM

2019-11-24T16:02:24-05:00

cuz their purpose in life is to "FIRE FOR EFFECT"
cuz their weapons are more boy-toys than offensive machines
(course, I should talk, having holstered only Colt M1911 and S&W 38 Specials unless doing courier duty)

Response by Maj Aaron Kozloski made Nov 24 at 2019 10:20 PM

2019-11-24T22:20:17-05:00

We wear them in The Corps. And we lead from the front.

Response by Lt Col Walter Green made Nov 24 at 2019 11:14 PM

2019-11-24T23:14:49-05:00

As an Air Force officer my service did not have a marksmanship badge. But we had a Marksmanship ribbon - it was the second one I earned (after the National Defense Service Medal), and I was always proud to wear it with a bronze star for expert qualification with the M-16 Rifle and .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Combat Masterpiece Revolver. My next to last job in the Air Force was battle commander on the Air Force's only train mobile command post. Our job was to survive as long as possible as a command element and then to fight on foot. Anyone in any of the armed services can end up as an infantryman, and if you do you better hope that you are expert with your firearm. The ribbon might not have meant much to most people, but I stayed expert qualified throughout most of my career, and the ribbon meant a lot to me.

Response by SPC Tim LaFountain made Nov 25 at 2019 8:55 PM

2019-11-25T20:55:40-05:00

Our company Commander went to the range with us to qualify with us with the .45, he scored a 13 out of 50. His leadership skills were no better than his marksman skills.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Nov 26 at 2019 5:21 PM

2019-11-26T17:21:02-05:00

Officers in the Marine Corps wear marksmanship badges

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Nov 26 at 2019 5:21 PM

2019-11-26T17:21:41-05:00

Officers in the Marine Corps wear shooting badges

Response by Sgt William Collins made Nov 29 at 2019 11:49 AM

2019-11-29T11:49:50-05:00

Every Marine Officer I've ever seen wore his qualification badges.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Nov 29 at 2019 8:22 PM

2019-11-29T20:22:49-05:00

Marine Corps Officers DO wear marksmanship badges. individual proficiency with weapons is held in high regard in the corps no matter what your MOS is

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2019 11:41 AM

2019-12-05T11:41:36-05:00

The only marksmanship badges that are worn in the Navy are EIC and Distinguished. Both officers and enlisted wear them in the Navy.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 9:41 PM

2019-12-15T21:41:59-05:00

I still use my marksmanship badge and my Governor Dozen tab, both rifle and pistol and I am very proud of them. And by the way, no regulation states that officers can not wear them. It is just simply a habit that needs to be corrected. If you earned it, WEAR IT!

Response by Sgt Able Snider made Dec 26 at 2019 2:44 PM

2019-12-26T14:44:38-05:00

Because they can't shoot....LOL

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Dec 27 at 2019 12:24 PM

2019-12-27T12:24:59-05:00

Marine officers wear rifle and pistol badges at the level of qualification WHEN appropriate. Example: I have not seen them worn with mess whites while I have with dress blues, greens etc.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Dec 30 at 2019 10:35 AM

2019-12-30T10:35:38-05:00

If it is allowed and officers are qualified they should wear them proudly.

Response by LTC Philip Marlowe made Dec 30 at 2019 5:58 PM

2019-12-30T17:58:08-05:00

I never failed to wear any badge I earned and I qualified expert with the M16, .45 and the M9. I ran all of the marksmanship ranges at Ft McClellan from 7/1981 to 10/1982 and qualified on every weapons system used by Military Police. In Desert Storm, I qualified with and carried an M249.... it was a PITA, but hey, it was better than an M9 - which I also carried.

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Dec 31 at 2019 10:41 AM

2019-12-31T10:41:04-05:00

Coast Guard doesn't have badges, just ribbons with various devices. I can't recall ever seeing an officer with them, except for one Mustang.

Response by SFC Timothy Dutcher made Dec 31 at 2019 8:36 PM

2019-12-31T20:36:25-05:00

If an officer shoots expert, he/ she probably would look silly wearing it. If they don't shoot expert, they probably don't want to wear one. Everyone else would never know.

Response by PVT Robert Cameron made Dec 31 at 2019 9:09 PM

2019-12-31T21:09:43-05:00

I think everyone should wear their qualifications. It would give others something to strive for. Truthfully I couldn't shoot an M16A2 and only qualified marksman with it. But give me a SAW and I could out shoot just about anyone in my company.

Response by COL John Rosnow made Jan 1 at 2020 3:40 AM

2020-01-01T03:40:21-05:00

As someone who read a lot of regulations over the years, Officers are certainly authorized to wear marksmanship badges. Like others have said, it is more of a culture thing not to wear them.

Being able to qualify with your weapon is a basic Soldier skill. It is not a skill for just enlisted Soldiers to master.

I practiced shooting and was proud that I could shoot well, and I wore my qualification badge with pride, even in my official military photo. To me it was all part of leading by example.

Response by SFC Byron Perry made Jan 3 at 2020 4:47 PM

2020-01-03T16:47:16-05:00

They don't want the lower enlisted to see how bad they shoot.

Response by PO2 Matt Marriott made Jan 5 at 2020 8:56 AM

2020-01-05T08:56:44-05:00

Marines are like vegans, if they don’t tell someone within 5 minutes of meeting them, they will explode. “Also did I mention that every Marine is a rifleman? Even the cooks!”

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jan 7 at 2020 3:01 AM

2020-01-07T03:01:01-05:00

Man, this is a real tough one to answer. Officers aren't seen as marksmen, because the are only required to carry a compass, side arm (pistol) and a map. Many would qualify as a marksmen. They mostly lead, talk on the radio and dole out assignments. If a lot more officers would chime in on this subject, maybe we'd have better answers.

Response by MSG Hector Ramos made Jan 26 at 2020 11:02 AM

2020-01-26T11:02:54-05:00

If earned put it on the uniform, be proud of the uniform you wear; One most remember, this is not an 8 to 5 job no, but whoever beliefs it’s he or her are in the wrong business. That said, Read the Reg, and learn to be belong,HOOHAAA.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2020 4:17 PM

2020-01-29T16:17:45-05:00

Tradition

Response by SFC Jeffery Hodgkinson made Jan 29 at 2020 9:30 PM

2020-01-29T21:30:34-05:00

Officers don't where their badges, for the simple fact that officers are in a management role, there for they handle everything in that Avenue. The old saying goes, Officers plan, NCO's Train, and the enlisted execute ...

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made Feb 1 at 2020 3:32 AM

2020-02-01T03:32:34-05:00

One other thing I remember from my Army Days (Enlisted/Cadet (1974-1980) - Officer (1980 - 1988)) is that you have to qualify each year to wear a qualification badge. I qualified Expert in M-16, M-60, and Grenade as an MP. I qualified in Rifle in Officer Basic Course in 1980 and on the .45 Cal Pistol in 1981 at my first unit and never was in a unit that I had to qualify again. They were short .45 rounds in Korea (1982-1983) and did not want to waste them on qualification shooting; I was at MACOM level (1984-1987) at TRADOC HQ where I never saw BDU's, let alone a weapon; the Office Automation Course (1987); and was a floater awaiting my medical discharge at Fort Benjamin Harrison, IN (1988). So it isn't always that officers are not wearing their ribbons due to some Officer Corps Bushido, they are no longer qualified to wear them due to duty assignments.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Feb 1 at 2020 1:55 PM

2020-02-01T13:55:29-05:00

Its an unwritten rule in the AF that unless you were prior enlisted, Officers don't wear their Ribbons on
their Blue Shirts , Jackets yes....not the shirt.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Feb 1 at 2020 5:20 PM

2020-02-01T17:20:17-05:00

Until my eyes went totally south, I always shot expert, but never wore marksmanship badges because someone told me it's not done. Well and good. I always figured that my soldiers were my weapon. Nonetheless, I always carried a rifle when in action. And a sidearm. And a knife....maybe two. It never hurts to have backup.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2020 5:32 PM

2020-02-01T17:32:57-05:00

Because the basic marksman badge is laughed at in the Infantry.

Response by SSgt Paula L Glover made Feb 1 at 2020 10:34 PM

2020-02-01T22:34:54-05:00

If they earned it, why not?

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Feb 2 at 2020 3:15 AM

2020-02-02T03:15:06-05:00

It is a interesting discussion for sure. My first thought is that all soldiers should display their proficiency in a giving skill to earn the respect of their rank. Second in the past many officers led from the front. I know this has changed especially at the higher levels, but every enlisted soldier has a special level of respect for his officer that he follows who demonstrators confidence along with humility by leading from the front. In short show those you lead that you can do what your asking them to do.

Response by MSG John Joseph made Feb 2 at 2020 6:32 AM

2020-02-02T06:32:53-05:00

My wife who's an officer said its because the duties require them to lead the squads and not as an individual soldier. Thought this was a bs excuse, but the O culture runs with it, even in SF.

Response by PO2 Harold Hoffman made Feb 2 at 2020 1:34 PM

2020-02-02T13:34:25-05:00

BECAUSE MOST OF THEM COULDN'T HIT A COW IN THE ASS WITH A SHOVEL!!!!

Response by CPT William Fahey made Feb 3 at 2020 11:12 AM

2020-02-03T11:12:46-05:00

In my time - from ROTC through active duty - every officer I met wore the badges - '64 through '73.

Response by PO2 Kevin Cullen made Feb 3 at 2020 10:01 PM

2020-02-03T22:01:34-05:00

Ifyou have it where it...

Response by SSG Ricky Johnson made Feb 3 at 2020 11:49 PM

2020-02-03T23:49:27-05:00

I’m a little surprised by the comments from some of the officers on this subject. By saying it’s tradition to not wear them does not make sense. When we had to take our DA photos for the promotion boards, we had to have everything on that uniform that was on out 201 file. When an officer that is x-enlisted takes their photo, do they wear the badges? One the other hand, if they were awarded the Good Conduct Medal as a enlisted soldier, do they stop wearing it because it’s not awarded to officers?

Response by Cpl John Payne made Feb 4 at 2020 5:32 PM

2020-02-04T17:32:59-05:00

IN THE MARINE CORPS OFFICERS WEAR THEIR MARKSMANSHIP BADGES

Response by MAJ Jeffrey Sacks made Feb 4 at 2020 7:27 PM

2020-02-04T19:27:31-05:00

I took great pride in my shooting ability and always wore my expert with pistol and rifle when in service uniform. I was commissioned my entire career and knew other officers that also wore their expert badges. I note that I never saw a commissioned officer or warrant officer wearing a basic marksman badge. I also earned foreign shooting awards (West German), but regulation only authorized them for wear by enlisted soldiers. Excellence in Competition awards on the other hand were authorized.

Response by Sgt Glen Barnes made Feb 5 at 2020 1:18 PM

2020-02-05T13:18:59-05:00

Sure , why not! I wore mine!

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2020 3:19 PM

2020-02-06T15:19:04-05:00

USAF members wear a ribbon with a star (not OLC) for different weapon systems. If an officer fires "Expert"...they are able to wear the ribbon for ever.

Response by MSgt Oscar D. Trujillo made Feb 8 at 2020 9:06 AM

2020-02-08T09:06:36-05:00

Let's look at it in a simple way. Enlisted are the weapons for the officer. He points and the owner of the weapon fires. Officer's main weapon – sidearm – close range. About the only time, an officer will put the shooting badges on is when he can show that he is “Expert”; usually, I have seen it with previous enlisted. Have you seen an officer with a “toilet seat” on his chest? Pride will not let them when you have a choice or it is cultural.

Response by TSgt Andrew Harper made Feb 8 at 2020 9:56 PM

2020-02-08T21:56:52-05:00

You earned it, wear it proud!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2020 9:17 PM

2020-02-15T21:17:17-05:00

Marine corps all ranks wear marksmanship badges; all ranks are also authorized in the Army but it is an unwritten tradition that officers don't wear the marksmanship badge. I think it's a stupid tradition as somebody else said we are all soldiers and all soldiers are required to qualify for marksmanship. Marksmanship skills are important for people in all ranks it doesn't matter in any situation a soldier of any rank or branch might be required to use his or her weapon!

Response by PFC David Gettman made Feb 20 at 2020 5:46 PM

2020-02-20T17:46:09-05:00

I guess Lieutenant Colonel DeWitt didn't get the memo.

Response by GySgt Mike Grow made Feb 24 at 2020 3:19 PM

2020-02-24T15:19:22-05:00

Being a Marine SNCO, assigned to a joint command many years ago, I witnessed a cultural gap among officer and enlisted soldiers. Not that this is a bad thing, as Army history proves it works for them quite well.
In our service culture, the officer's identity as Marines before the rank. Same as the Privates through Master Gun's, and the SgtMaj of the USMC. We also notice when a Marine decides not to wear (optional for some uniform classes and duty assignments) awards and distinguishing devices.
The difference again, most Marines think, "That's odd." Next they look up the uniform manual, ask around, or ultimately ask the Gunny. To which most Gunny's will refer and recite the uniform manual then promptly point out how the Marine can better apply their newly acquired powers for "attention to detail".
The next formation the Marines and Corpsman will be reminded that the awards and badges are background noise. The actions and deeds of the individual Marine are represented in every award we wear as it takes the unity of action to earn them.
If you do not agree, look to interviews with Medal of Honor holder's. Most wear and accepted them to represent their comrades in arms.

Response by Cpl Richard Besser made Feb 29 at 2020 7:24 PM

2020-02-29T19:24:44-05:00

OMG, the Army does not make their officers quality on the range each year?? That's terrible :)
The Marine Corps officers do need to requalify each year and they all wear qualification badges.
Have you thought to GOOGLE this question? GOOGLE knows everything :)

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Mar 14 at 2020 2:54 PM

2020-03-14T14:54:52-04:00

I've seen some wear them, others not. There is nothing in any reg that says they, or anyone, has to wear them or isn't allowed to.
It seems some sort of tradition that nobody knows about anymore, so i'ts become "the way we've always done it." You'll see a lot of various reasons and while one might be true, it's likely to be military urban legend at this point.

Response by GySgt David Doddridge made Mar 15 at 2020 6:08 PM

2020-03-15T18:08:02-04:00

Marines do even the ones with low scores. No one I know/knew looked down on that officer, it just what he shoot. No big deal, We don’t all shoot expert. We all don’t qualify high swimmers either. Get over it. Wear your badge or ribbon.

Response by WO1 Dave Middleton made Mar 17 at 2020 1:54 AM

2020-03-17T01:54:27-04:00

I was a Vietnam Warrant; basic-AIT- Flight School-Vietnam-showdown-medically retired- civilian. Never got to wear my dress uniform, but think I would have wore the skill medals. One note; Just as proud of the “Good Conduct” medal as I am of the air medals. Not many Vietnam OH-6 pilots had one. LOL

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Mar 17 at 2020 6:32 PM

2020-03-17T18:32:08-04:00

The Marines officers do wear marksmanship badges .

Response by CPT David Walters made Mar 18 at 2020 7:57 AM

2020-03-18T07:57:53-04:00

I was a Drill Sergeant on Sand Hill, Ft. Benning in the late 60's. I always maintained an Expert rating in all weapons that I taught. I went to the "Benning School for Boys", Officer Candidate School in 70 eventually retiring as a Captain in 86. I always wore my Expert qualification badge even on dress Blues and wore them with pride alongside my Paratrooper wings and Aviator wings.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Mar 18 at 2020 1:16 PM

2020-03-18T13:16:25-04:00

It must be an officer Reg. I've been around every branch and have never seen an officer wear a marksmanship badge or ribbon. The only branch that I've seen a officer wear a marksmanship badge is the Marines.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Mar 18 at 2020 1:18 PM

2020-03-18T13:18:51-04:00

Some Naval officer wear them but it's rare. Bottom row right Rifle & Pistol

Response by CPT Ian Stewart made Mar 27 at 2020 1:21 PM

2020-03-27T13:21:36-04:00

This is an interesting point and never really thought about it during my 23 years in the Army. Just an FYI - The German Armed Forces wear marksmanship cords called a "Schützenschnur" which by regulation, is awarded only to NCOs and Enlisted personnel.

Response by CPT Edward Barr made Mar 28 at 2020 5:24 PM

2020-03-28T17:24:03-04:00

A good leader does not need to prove he is good enough. A good leader does not need to compete, to be the best. A good leader doesn't need to know everything, be better than, or superior to anyone in his command.
While a Marksmanship badge can be used to show: "Look at me, try to be as good." Or, "Look at me, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm always going to work at being better; follow my example."
It wouldn't usually work that way. No one can determine they way someone else views things.

A good leader needs to be able to recognize those around him/her, whom are the best at specific tasks, whom are knowledgeable in specific areas, etc. They need to recognize these things, then use them to their best advantage; and coordinate all the individual pieces into a unit greater than the sum of it's individual parts.

Response by SPC Patrick McNamara made Apr 12 at 2020 3:37 PM

2020-04-12T15:37:36-04:00

They would if they ever earned one.
Just kidding just kidding. :-)

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 13 at 2020 8:55 AM

2020-04-13T08:55:21-04:00

What I was told as Enlisted was that it was the expectation of an Officer to shoot expert on assigned weapons, so wear of the medal is frowned upon. Would be like wearing a perfect attendence award.

BTW, off topic but as trivia, Army Marksmanship badges can be worn by civilians on civilian clothes if earned via the Army Markesmanship Program. That has to be somewhere in the reg as I read it long ago.

Response by MAJ Mark Kottka made Apr 15 at 2020 2:19 AM

2020-04-15T02:19:17-04:00

As a retired Combat Arms, Field Grade Mustang, hell yes! Lead By Example is how I was brought up as a 19D! As a 11A, this badge would show the troopers, “he ain’t a desk jockey yet”

Response by Capt Mark Miller made Apr 17 at 2020 12:53 AM

2020-04-17T00:53:20-04:00

Must be an Army Thing. I wore one in the USAF Security Police. It showed I could be trusted to back someone up in a firefight.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Apr 17 at 2020 11:07 PM

2020-04-17T23:07:20-04:00

Here's a somewhat related question. Can Marine Corps shooting badges be worn on the Army uniform by prior service Marines who are now Soldiers?

Response by SgtMaj Phillip Orellano made Apr 21 at 2020 9:17 AM

2020-04-21T09:17:18-04:00

In the Marine Corps they have to.

Response by MAJ John Collins made Apr 24 at 2020 3:12 PM

2020-04-24T15:12:26-04:00

I wore a bronze excellence in competition medal for pistol that I earned as an officer. I was the only person in my unit(s) that ever had one. My additional duty for years was to run weapons ranges. I was a shooter and still am.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Apr 24 at 2020 9:06 PM

2020-04-24T21:06:17-04:00

I first served four years as an enlisted soldier and NCO. I qualified Expert with the M-16 rifle and 9 mm pistol. I also qualified with the German 9 mm pistol, G-3 7.62 rifle and MG-1 machine gun. After commissioning I initially wore my marksmanship badges but caught some flak for it. My fellow lieutenants eventually convinced me to not wear them. I felt then, and still do to some extent, that showing my soldiers that I had qualified well to fire my weapon would not be a bad thing.

Response by CW2 Francis M Balik made Apr 25 at 2020 8:21 PM

2020-04-25T20:21:50-04:00

If I earned the markmanship badges the I would wear the regardless of rank.

Response by LCDR Mike Morrissey made May 17 at 2020 8:02 PM

2020-05-17T20:02:43-04:00

After taking a cursory tour of the responses, I didn’t find a Naval Officer (or an Enlisted) addressing the fact that one will find rifle and pistol ribbons on basically all those who qualified Os and Es, and of course, wear the associated medals in full dress. Those devices will indicate marksman, sharpshooter and expert with the highest attained using attached letters. All ribbons and medals (some ribbons are not “medaled”) carryover when one moves from E to O.

Humorously, while deployed to Desert Storm, my wife (then an O-4) got pulled into a discussion re. the firearms qualifications when a guy made a disparaging remark about women not being able to qual. She got a copy of a page from her service jacket and handed it to the idiotic trog. She’s qualed Expert in both. He fully earned the HUYA award that day. I knew the E-8 Gunners-mate who qualified her. It certainly wasn’t just a lark on the range. Now retired, we both had earned the rifle and pistol Expert quals on active duty.

Response by SGT Josh Johnson made Jun 3 at 2020 8:55 PM

2020-06-03T20:55:37-04:00

I asked the same question when I was in, the response I got was just a bit different. the officers seemed to want their bigger accomplishments focused on, i.e. the ribbons which they earned. When in dress uniform, they may mingle just a bit with their enlisted soldiers, but they were always preening for their higher ups, hoping to be noticed. The marksmanship badges tend to blur the focus on those ribbons which they are really proud of.

Response by SSG(P) D. Wright Downs made Jun 5 at 2020 4:25 PM

2020-06-05T16:25:52-04:00

There are two kinds of people in the military…those who like to shoot and those who don’t like to. Those who like to shoot generally shoot pretty well, are full of pride of their shooting ability, and clean their assigned weapon to accepted standards or better without having to be reprimanded. Those who don’t like to shoot are hairballs regardless to rank, try to get an elnisted person to clean their assigned weapon and the whole nine yards.I know this because I love shooting and have always asked to shoot one of the .45s just because I have carried one from time to time for convienece along with my camera gear. Not an assigned .45 but just any one that is not assigned that is out at the range, a dry fire for me…and I shoot very well. I have been asked by my officers to clean theirs on occasion. I pleaded non involvement to servitude and explained I had a .45 and an M16 to care for and he had only a tiny .45. I have seen how poorly many offices shoot when I am waiting to shoot. Some are really fantastic, too, and proud of their marksmanship…those are the ones I always wanted to be around if the balloon went up. So, that is why I think they don’t wear badges. It could be embarrassing to some….especially if they were in the fraternity with the ring
.

Response by MSgt Morris Walsh made Jun 5 at 2020 6:04 PM

2020-06-05T18:04:59-04:00

Good Info. Thanks.

Response by MAJ Jeffrey Sacks made Jun 10 at 2020 9:45 AM

2020-06-10T09:45:51-04:00

This retired Major took pride in wearing his expert rifle and pistol badges (year after year still couldn’t do as well with the M-60 and grenade though).

Response by CSM Stuart Fuller made Jun 11 at 2020 8:10 PM

2020-06-11T20:10:58-04:00

I really don't care if they do or not. I do care if they wear it and didnt earn it.

Response by MSgt Currie C. made Jun 13 at 2020 1:04 AM

2020-06-13T01:04:02-04:00

In the Marines they do.

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made Jun 13 at 2020 11:27 AM

2020-06-13T11:27:17-04:00

It seems to me, if I recall correctly, that when wearing the Uniform, on should wear all of the medals, ribbons, and devices one is authorized to wear and that if one does otherwise, they are "out of uniform". The very word "uniform" implies sameness and consistency. For leaders to not be in proper uniform as a "culture" sets a poor example for subordinates and really shouldn't be tolerated. That's just my $0.02.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Jun 14 at 2020 6:22 PM

2020-06-14T18:22:49-04:00

they do in the Marines

Response by MAJ Fred Peterman made Jun 15 at 2020 5:46 AM

2020-06-15T05:46:38-04:00

I wore my marksmanship badges. I was on National Guard State Rifle team. I assisted the NCO'S on the range. When officers qualified with 1911's, I was in charge of the small group.
When the Battalion qualified before Bosnia, the NCO'S ran the range. I was available IF necessary.
In Bosnia, I shot my M9 and a random M16. Shot expert with the Berreta. Shot a 1 inch group with the M16.
My soldiers knew that "I could walk the walk".

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2020 7:16 PM

2020-07-01T19:16:04-04:00

I've been around for many years, enlisted, officer, active, reserve, and guard. I always wear my badges, they are part of the uniform.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2020 12:05 PM

2020-07-06T12:05:22-04:00

In one of the units I served generally the officers who were formerly enlisted wore their marksmanship badges but those who went ROTC often did not for some reason.

Response by SFC Alan Perlman made Jul 7 at 2020 9:42 PM

2020-07-07T21:42:10-04:00

I screwed u pand diid a good job running the range. So I got to do it over and over. From my experience most Officers cant shoot anyway, so why wear a badge.

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2020 11:44 PM

2020-07-08T23:44:10-04:00

Officers are expected to shoot expert.

Response by CPT Olen Ridling made Jul 10 at 2020 12:08 PM

2020-07-10T12:08:45-04:00

I always wore mine; BUT I was/am an expert w/ multiple weapons. I find some Officers are embarrassed to wear bolo badges -- answer is to work at it,, you should be an expert. I also wear my drivers badge.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2020 8:35 PM

2020-07-10T20:35:44-04:00

I was enlisted in the Navy and earned sharpshooter in both the pistol and rifle. Although not the highest badge the Navy offers, I took a lot of pride in my competence with a gun rather than the highest scores. When I traded chevrons for bars, I continued to represent my marksmanship ribbons along with all of my Navy salad. I use it as a tool of motivation to challenge the young Airmen I lead to be the best they can and earn their stripes.

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Jul 11 at 2020 2:32 PM

2020-07-11T14:32:36-04:00

They should wear everything their soldiers thay follow them wear. Lead from the front. I also think it may be time to reconsider the rank structure and begin to bring every soldier through basic training, officer and enlisted together. Let the officer train side by side with the ones they will lead upon commission.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Jul 12 at 2020 10:04 AM

2020-07-12T10:04:59-04:00

For Officers to wear marksmanship badges,
Some Officers may not use a weapon. Their jobs are peace makers or healers.
Having a weapon changes their category to fighter and not their real job.
Yes they need to protect their clients but their are other ways besides weapons.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Jul 12 at 2020 10:09 AM

2020-07-12T10:09:46-04:00

If an Officer who receives Marksmanship is lower than his soldiers how would that look. It's better to not wear them than to look weaker than his platoon.

Response by MSG Loren Tomblin made Jul 15 at 2020 4:39 PM

2020-07-15T16:39:18-04:00

Sometimes a junior officer does not get all the facts before he reacts. I was an E-2 (former E-5) sporting and EIB. A 1LT confronted me and asked where I got my CIB. I told him Germany and he was ok. But I had to correct his young self that it was an EIB. I should have told him the PX. lol. At any rate my PLT leader was a West Pointer (RIP) and he always requested me to go down range. My grandson is a 2LT ABN and I advised him to seek the counsel of the SGT's before before he made a disciplinary decision. Keep it in the family and treat it as learning experience if no one was hurt.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2020 12:23 AM

2020-07-16T00:23:12-04:00

I asked this in my unit and the answer was that the officers didn’t want to outshine solders and NCOs and it was an expectation for them to be proficient.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2020 10:23 PM

2020-07-16T22:23:46-04:00

Well, during my enlisted and NCO days, I was a member of the Marksmanship Training Unit (MTU) for the PRARNG and constantly we were training and qualifying as expert with both pistol and rifle. I attended numerous TAG Matches and military marksmanship competitions and earned the “Governors Dozen” tab for both pistol and rifle. I was on a good roll to obtain the “Presidents Hundred” tab which is very desirable amongst ARMY personnel (if you are into the marksmanship field) and so on. When I commisioned as a Warrant Officer, because basically we read regulations more often, I learned that there is no regulation that states that wearing my marksmanship badges was not permitted and that it was an “officers thing”!! Well, I wear my matksmanship badges proudly because I EARN THEM. Every year I go to the range and qualify and wear my badges with pride. It is funny that when I get to a new unit, soldiers and officers look at me with disbelief when I go 39-40 or 40-40.... And then they start saking for advise on how to properly perform marksmanship tasks and accomplish a good score... “The Chief can shoot”!!! So, wear your marksmanship badges with pride. YOU EARNED IT. ARMY STRONG.

Response by PO2 Steven Michaeli made Jul 20 at 2020 4:55 PM

2020-07-20T16:55:09-04:00

When the CMOH was first introduced it was only for enlisted and NCOs. Maybe marksman badges were never authorized for officers when first introduced

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 6:03 PM

2020-07-20T18:03:15-04:00

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges" - The Air Force has a ribbon and I wore it proudly since it was only the second one I ever received after commissioning as a 2nd Looey

Response by CPT Stephen Smith made Aug 7 at 2020 10:40 PM

2020-08-07T22:40:51-04:00

Funny, as an Infantry 1st Lt. In 'Nam in '67/'68, I caaried and used an M1 Garand, and later an AK47. In my time in the "Brown Shoe Army," I never knew that officers were not supposed to wear their marksmanship badges. My experience tells me I was glad I qualified as an "Expert" with the rifle. I found I needed those skills and I don't understand why officers should refrain from wearing their badges.

Response by SP5 Donald Johnson made Aug 10 at 2020 8:34 PM

2020-08-10T20:34:51-04:00

Yes

Response by SP5 John Anderson made Aug 11 at 2020 2:43 PM

2020-08-11T14:43:05-04:00

I served 1-1/2 years in combat, during Vietnam. I made SP/5 by "battlefield" promotions and I was up for SSG when I was wounded the second. I assure you that I was absolutely comfortable knowing whether the officers over me could shoot a weapon in a "pinch". I had to know where my protection was and how effective that protection was. "Charlie" and "Nathan" really didn't care whether a soldier was "politically correct " and I would never trust a political officer with my life!!!!!!

Response by MAJ Mike Pagotto made Aug 12 at 2020 12:27 PM

2020-08-12T12:27:00-04:00

I wore my rifle expert and wheeled driver badge my entire career. I felt it showed I was competent in tasks I was asking my Soldiers to perform

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 5:30 PM

2020-08-12T17:30:04-04:00

Some officers might not want to display that they've shot less than expert. I think that is silly. Context matters. If an officer has the opportunity to go to the range multiple times a month then their score should reflect that. I shoot marksman or sharpshooter and as a National Guard officer who most years zeros and shoots once I think I'm doing pretty good to maintain a passing score with no practice. Unless I buy an AR-15 I'm not going to get to shoot much more. Most years I've been the range OIC and my personal goal is to zero efficiently and qualify in one iteration so I can focus my attention on running the range.

I also wear my drivers badge which many others frown upon. I've driven, driven not TC'd, many more miles as an officer than when I was an NCO.

Response by CPT Ross Asher made Aug 13 at 2020 9:35 AM

2020-08-13T09:35:56-04:00

Frankly, I had no idea that “officer culture” and “tradition” said not to wear marksmanship badges. I was an Infantry rifle platoon leader in the mid ‘70’s and we all wore ours. And who posted the nonsense about officers only carrying pistols and not rifles? He never served in an Infantry company.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 9:56 AM

2020-08-13T09:56:18-04:00

Historically, Officers don’t wear marksmanship badges because it was assumed they were experts in marksmanship. (No need for sarcasm or wit needed here. I’m just providing the history lesson). There is no regulation prohibiting them from wearing them. In my experience (25 years of service) the best officers rarely wore any of the badges and medals they were authorized to wear in a duty uniform. They were humble, did their job, and on the rare occasion a dress uniform was worn, one would get a glimpse into their earned accomplishments with medals and ribbons.

Response by MAJ Albert McCaig made Aug 13 at 2020 2:22 PM

2020-08-13T14:22:10-04:00

Frankly I think they should especially if in a combat arms in a troop leading position. We should set the example for our soldiers. Yes, individual training is the NCO prerogative but we set the example for that, too. I was proud of my expert rifle, pistol, tank crew, grenade, and machine gun badges. If that would have made my fellow officers feel bad about what they earned, then go do the work to do better.

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2020-08-28T14:29:55-04:00

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Response by SSG Lloyd Kelso made Sep 2 at 2020 9:38 PM

2020-09-02T21:38:15-04:00

Yes indeed officers need to wear their weapons qualification badges, if not then they have no reason to go the range. Leave range control completely to E-6 and above.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Sep 23 at 2020 11:51 AM

2020-09-23T11:51:08-04:00

Had them when I was an EM out of basic. I still have them somewhere but they never were on the uniform after OCS. I was told as a newbie that officers didn't wear them. Oh geeze, and I had carbine on mine. I guess its best not to carry all that extra weigh that makes holes in the fabric. ???

Response by LtCol William Kroen made Sep 25 at 2020 9:17 PM

2020-09-25T21:17:45-04:00

Marine Corps officers always wear shooting badges. Lt. Col. ret

Response by LTC Walter Ringler made Oct 16 at 2020 8:27 AM

2020-10-16T08:27:22-04:00

I have been both officer and enlisted. I am the founder of "UNIFORM GUIDE"; the best selling booklet on the proper wear of USA military uniforms. Having been on both sides, holding multiple ranks at each level, I agree with those who are saying basically "Officers are embarrassed by not being as good at something as those they lead". Senior officers hiding behind "Officers are planners, organizers, etc." doesn't relieve them of the basics. Exceptional servicemen/women can do both.

Response by COL Frank Siltman made Oct 24 at 2020 9:58 AM

2020-10-24T09:58:26-04:00

Strictly cultural. Nothing in regs. I was in a Bn where the commander required officers to wear it. I always was expert so I didn’t mind, but some officers, especially with pistols (since the Army doesn’t train you to fire a pistol, they just hand you a pistol as a staff officer or commander) some probably didn’t want to wear them!

Response by SSG Ricky Johnson made Oct 24 at 2020 6:32 PM

2020-10-24T18:32:41-04:00

Do officers qualify? Or do they familiarize?

Response by LtCol John Munn made Oct 24 at 2020 8:05 PM

2020-10-24T20:05:16-04:00

Marine officers fire the rifle and pistol every year for qualification til they reach field grade (only the pistol then) and wear both marksmanship badges as part of the Service and Blues A uniform (green and blue blouse).

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2020 10:50 AM

2020-10-25T10:50:17-04:00

In USAF, there is a "Marksmanship Ribbon"...worn by any member achieving the score to authorize. A bronze star indicates a second or more qualified weapon. I qualified M-16, .38.and M9, so I wore ribbon with a star.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Oct 25 at 2020 2:51 PM

2020-10-25T14:51:25-04:00

Officers within the Air Force that had a requirement to carry a sidearm were awarded an expert marksmanship ribbon if they qualified. As a pilot and a senior command post controller carrying nuclear PAL codes, I was authorized either a 9mm SA or .38 revolver. It did not carry the weight of your marksmanship badge in the USA, however, the AF only allowed two badges on a dress uniform. For most officers this would be pilot, navigator or astronaut wings and the secondary would be a jump badge or missle badge. ATC, AAI, intel etc would be tertiary and not worn unless you didn't have either of the first and second. Enlisted troops had a similar expert marksmanship ribbon with a star for rifle expertese.

Response by MAJ Kevin Mason made Oct 25 at 2020 3:48 PM

2020-10-25T15:48:11-04:00

As an officer, I normally did not wear marksmanship medals with the exception of when I was a PLT LDR or CO CDR. I wore them then to reinforce the importance of marksmanship at the unit level.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Oct 25 at 2020 8:20 PM

2020-10-25T20:20:36-04:00

Generally speaking Marine do were their marksmanship badges,cultural thing?

Response by Cpl John M Dutrow made Oct 25 at 2020 11:38 PM

2020-10-25T23:38:37-04:00

MARINE OFFICERS DO

Response by PO2 Cyrus Barberia made Oct 26 at 2020 11:41 AM

2020-10-26T11:41:55-04:00

I wasn't in the army I'm just a sailor can't shoot unless the right unless it's a rocket or a cannon. But I feel like someone earned something they should probably wear it it

Response by Sgt Glenn Ratzel made Oct 27 at 2020 12:28 PM

2020-10-27T12:28:03-04:00

Marine Corps Officers wear marksmanship badges.

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Oct 29 at 2020 2:05 PM

2020-10-29T14:05:57-04:00

Infantry officers always wore qual badges. As everyone should.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Dec 2 at 2020 8:42 PM

2020-12-02T20:42:46-05:00

I believe Officers should wear them, as it is not often that we wear Class As anyway, unless assigned to a D.C. type of unit or embassy. It is a qualification insignia - no different than Aviator wings or EOD badge insignia... if a Soldier earns it and if it is authorized for wear and display - then wear it regardless of rank. I earned my Marksmanship badges as an Enlisted Soldier and as an NCO when serving as an M1-A1 Armored Crewmember. When I became MI Officer and later as a CI Special Agent, I discovered that by wearing my Pistol / Rifle Expert badge - my troops and civilian agents felt the desire to compete with me to see if they could perform better than me on the range. I admire that kind of team spirited competition. One day there was a Post Shooting Competition - and because I had spent time serving on both a Pistol and Rifle Team - shooting was a fun sport for me, and combat only enhanced my skills as a Soldier and as an Agent. I had done very well that day and the Post CSM approached me to make me aware that I was going to receive special recognition from him and the CG along with a coin and trophy. I asked if anyone else knew how well I had shot that day, and who was the next best shooter on the range. The CSM said a young 19 year old female MP was actually the next best shooter - only a year out of AIT, and she came within one point of my score! I told the CSM that was who really deserved the recognition and award... and while I appreciated the kind gesture by the CG & CSM - such recognition on a Captain with 15 years of service with prior Enlisted & NCO time + combat experience wouldn't mean as much as it would to a 19 year old female MP just beginning her career in the Army, and imagine her excitement and phone calls to her parents and siblings about this special recognition she just earned. I asked the CSM + the NCO running the range and the CG to please announce the young MP as the highest shooter as she had only missed outscoring me by 1 point. The CSM allowed me to announce the scores and I said I had officially been outshot by a young MP whose Army training and the time she spent with her Dad on the farm back home shooting had clearly paid off, and the Army was fortunate to have such an excellent Marksman in the MP Corps. I called her to the front of the formation and the CSM and the CG presented her with the awards. Her smile and excitement is one of those rare moments the Army prides itself upon as older Soldiers pass the torch onto younger Troops! We likely encouraged a young girl who had enlisted for college money and to gain experience to join a federal agency later after the Army, may have just decided at that moment to stay in the Army - because when I shook her hand and congratulated her after the CSM and CG presented her awards - she asked me about becoming an Officer or becoming a Warrant Officer and later serving as a CI or CID Special Agent. I spoke with her in detail about her career and opportunities to later serve as a Commissioned Officer or Warrant Officer and to serve as an Army CI or CID Special Agent. I explained that she made a wise decision to serve as an Enlisted Soldier first, and I told her to continue with her part-time college education and to pursue her opportunity for a commission or warrant commission after serving a few years as a NCO. That was 13 years ago... she is now a Commissioned Officer and doing very well in her career! The last time we spoke she talked about that day on the range and how that day motivated her to make the Army a career and how much she enjoys coaching and mentoring younger Soldiers now - and how much she especially enjoys going to the range with her Soldiers - and the friendly competition she puts forth on the range to see who serves for bragging rights as the unit "Top Gun"! I asked her if she had been outperformed on the range yet - and she said she had a young 21 year old female Lieutenant who is their unit "Top Gun"... she too grew up with a Dad who was an Army Ranger - apparently she spent some "Dad - daughter" time on the range too, and she was also on the high school Army JROTC air rifle shooting team. And so it begins - another generation leading the Army and another generation of excellent Marksman ("Markswoman") - as I am kindly reminded from time to time!

Response by SFC Lou Toncks made Dec 24 at 2020 8:43 AM

2020-12-24T08:43:59-05:00

Unless you went to the Academy, ALL Soldiers start out as Basic Infantrymen (11B). We all have to qualify. We ALL should wear the awards earned, except for expert grenade. No one I ever knew wore that one.

Response by LCDR Howard Tillison made Dec 24 at 2020 10:24 AM

2020-12-24T10:24:18-05:00

Most of them can't shoot . . . .

USMC Officers proudly wear Expert Marksman badges. Navy officers wear a ribbon that denotes marksmanship.

As a former Navy officer (LCDR) I can only say that the Army and Air Force are very different from the USN and USMC. Could it be that a junior Army officer wearing a badge showing that he's a better shot than his CO might be "bad form?"

Response by Eloisa Hood made Dec 24 at 2020 10:25 AM

2020-12-24T10:25:03-05:00

Back in 1991 I put the expert badge for pistol on my uniform. A female officer told me I should not wear it, that it was an enlisted thing. I was proud of it as hardly anyone, especially officers, were qualified to wear it. I asked her why not, but she could come up with no real reason. This is the first time I ever even heard of "officer culture." Of course I never wore any ribbons nor medals on any uniform except the dress uniform. After my encounter with the female officer I started to note if it was being worn and found a good number of officers wearing lower marksmanship badges. I never heard anyone complain at them. It does seem strange that some sort of informal "culture" would dictate not wearing something you earned and difficult to earn on top of that.

Response by Sgt Dennis Doty made Dec 24 at 2020 1:49 PM

2020-12-24T13:49:11-05:00

No idea about Army regulations or customs. However, for the Marine Corps, marksmanship badges are worn with dress blues when ribbons are authorized. For more formal dress occasions, medals will be required and marksmanship badges are never worn with the full medal. The applies to both officer and enlisted uniforms.

Response by Maj Phillip Leslie made Dec 24 at 2020 8:38 PM

2020-12-24T20:38:52-05:00

Marine officers WEAR the marksman badge they qualified.

Response by Maj Phillip Leslie made Dec 24 at 2020 9:12 PM

2020-12-24T21:12:12-05:00

Marine Officers wear their marksmanship badges.

Response by MSgt Ken Bishop made Dec 24 at 2020 10:39 PM

2020-12-24T22:39:57-05:00

yes officers lead from the front. Marines of all ranks wear their shoot badges

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Dec 25 at 2020 2:50 PM

2020-12-25T14:50:49-05:00

The two reasons I've been given are that officers are in charge of trigger pullers AND NOT pulling triggers & also that officers are experts in everything. Given my experience with all ranks, the first reason is more feasible.

Response by Capt Phillip Williams made Dec 25 at 2020 8:16 PM

2020-12-25T20:16:01-05:00

Officers who qualify can wear Marksmanship badges. I wear my rifle sharpshooter and a pistol expert badge when I wear my Dress Blues. I was a Marine Captain when I got my Medical Discharge in 1977 while on active duty.

Response by LTC Michael Sternfeld made Dec 25 at 2020 9:44 PM

2020-12-25T21:44:14-05:00

I was enlisted for the first 3 years of my over 30 year Army career. I came home from a 3 year enlistment as a SGT E-5. I served in Vietnam, Operation Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom the year before I turned 60. I always wore my marksmanship badges on dress uniforms. An officer should be proud of his or her marksmanship skills. Not wearing the badge(s) actually sends the wrong signals to NCOs and Jr. Enlisted soldiers. The sad truth is that many officers don't wear the badges because their individual weapons skills are weak. I practiced on my own time and bought my own ammunition. I found ways to borrow or rent M14 type weapons and M16 type weapon(s) and variants when I could not sign a weapon out of an arms room for extra practice. So for all of my fellow officers who didn't want to wear the badges it is my opinion you were not or are now not leading by example.
As for the Army Officers who claim their primary weapon is a radio I say this: Try that argument on a USMC officer of any rank and then tell me their response. Your primary job is to lead soldiers of all ranks in combat and if you do not have above adequate skill with the organizational issued weapons be they long guns or semiautomatic hand guns you are truly not leading by example. I am a graduate of the resident CGSC Course at Fort Leavenworth and have a masters degree. I worked in both the law enforcement and heavy rail transpiration career fields for 30 years while serving in both the AC and USAR. To end with a redundant statement may not be considered high quality professional writing but I will do it anyway...wear your marksmanship badge and lead by example , if your shooting skills are embarrassing then go out and and retrain yourself on your own time and your own dime.

Response by 1LT Mark Norman made Dec 29 at 2020 12:50 PM

2020-12-29T12:50:55-05:00

I always wore mine, including my excellence in competition badge. Part of leadership is demonstrating that you can do what you ask your soldiers to do. Yes the radio is your primary weapon, but you need to be competent with your personal weapon.

Response by COL John Power made Jan 2 at 2021 11:58 AM

2021-01-02T11:58:07-05:00

Interesting discussion. I never noticed whether or not officers wore weapons qualification badges. I didn't, but most of the time I didn't wear any ribbons or badges except jump wings. Having qualified with a variety of weapons I thought that wearing the badges (for me) was just gussying up the look. So when in class A or dress I wore the ribbons and other insignia, but not the weapons badges. For me it was just personal preference.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2021 12:20 PM

2021-01-03T12:20:32-05:00

If you have earned a reward, a decide not to advertise it, it is personal perogitive. There is only an issue if someone wears awards or rank they have not earned. Compelling individuals to brag is bizzare, distasteful, and in all a dishonorable action.

Response by LTC Clayton Hill made Jan 18 at 2021 6:31 PM

2021-01-18T18:31:10-05:00

I wore my "Expert" pistol and rifle badges on Class A my whole career - none on dress though. I qualified expert at Ft. Riley w/ M-14, and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn w/ 45. However, when 45 was my assigned weapon as CO of KCMO unit, I had a KC police officer in my Guard unit. He told me after familiarization that I couldn't demonstrate my inefficiency with the pistol in front of unit. So, after our range fire, we got many more rounds and worked 3 hours that evening until I could hit 50 out of 50.

Response by SSgt Robert Van Buhler III made Jan 19 at 2021 11:09 AM

2021-01-19T11:09:13-05:00

If they were required to wear them it might diminish the respect for an officer that can't do better than barely qualify with an M-4. I believe it would be the first thing the lower ranks would look at when they encountered an officer. Most officers quickly accumulate enough foofarol to decorate their uniforms without certain devices just because they are officers. That is true today more than ever.

Response by LTC Ltc Butera made Jan 27 at 2021 1:40 PM

2021-01-27T13:40:18-05:00

I don't think this is where the focus should be-- There is no Regulation that says it can not be worn, and there is a long standing 'tradition" that officers do not wear it, but it is commander's discretion. Why are we even debating something that is not a clear violation of regulation- Let's compare it to a similar issue-- In the modern United States Army, the Stetson was revived as an unauthorized, unofficial headgear for the sake of esprit de corps in the Cavalry. Because they are not authorized by AR 670-1, the regulation for wear and appearance of the uniform, wear and use of the Stetson and the similar spurs is regulated by the unit commander. Here is a case where a popular and expected item is deemed UNAUTHORIZED- and never thought of as being something you can not wear. It is a something that is done to provide PRIDE and esprit d'corps- If it was important enough to be debating- the Army would have had an applicable Regulation LONG AGO. Let's get back to understanding the regulations we already have in place and stop worrying about someone that has pride in what they've done. If anyone cares that much about it, please direct your responses to :
PATRICK HENRY BRADY- now retired General and Recipient of the Medal of Honor- who proudly wore his Weapons Qualification badge-

Response by LTC Ltc Butera made Jan 27 at 2021 1:53 PM

2021-01-27T13:53:45-05:00

I feel the focus of this issue takes us down the wrong road- first an explanation of what is being discussed, with fact other than presumptive opinion. THERE IS NO regulation that says it can not be done- THERE IS a LONG TIME TRADITION (for what ever reason) that it is not worn by officers but can be at a commander's discretion. We can do this very easily by examining another well know tradition that is done- but is in fact UNAUTHORISED : In the modern United States Army, the Stetson was revived as an unauthorized, unofficial headgear for the sake of esprit de corps in the Cavalry. Because they are not authorized by AR 670-1, the regulation for wear and appearance of the uniform, wear and use of the Stetson and the similar spurs is regulated by the unit commander. I doubt if anyone is complaining about the wear of the Stetson even though it is definitely defined as UNAUTHORISED wear. I'm pretty sure that the Army would have had a very distinct REGULATION if they felt that wearing an AWARDED badge was UNAUTHORIZED. There are already regulation that show differenced between officer and enlisted wear- and unfortunately this is not one of them-- We should be more concerned with the current regulation that we have that are often forgotten or morphed to allow definite unauthorized things to take place. An officer's capability is not judged by the left side of his uniform, rightfully so. If he/she wears a badge of honor and is not breaking an regulation- than so be it. I often said that the day a captain pins on an oak leaf, how they are expected, all of a sudden to be smarter (the rank he pinned on didn't make him smarter). For anyone that feels this is just WRONG- I would turn your attention to PATRICK HENRY BRADY (retired General0 and recipient of the MEDAL OF HONOR, who proudly wore his qualifications badge on his uniform- Opinions are fine- but let us not confuse Traditions and Regulations, many a TRADITION have been overturned in the years.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Feb 8 at 2021 10:04 PM

2021-02-08T22:04:07-05:00

Because they earned them.

Response by SPC Paul LaBelle made Feb 9 at 2021 7:55 PM

2021-02-09T19:55:31-05:00

Cause they don’t want the troops to see they need a spec 4 shooting their target in order for the platoon to finally get off the range at 8pm...

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Feb 11 at 2021 6:48 PM

2021-02-11T18:48:11-05:00

In the Marines officers wear their rifle and pistol badges. And those with pizza boxes are looked down on

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Feb 14 at 2021 9:16 PM

2021-02-14T21:16:01-05:00

CPT David Gillespie :
I expect some where in Rally Point you will get your answer , This is new to me, Would think there is nothing in uniform medals & ribbons that would discourage the wearing the marksmanship badge for Officers
possibly encouraged by culture but not enforced , then likely by choice.

Response by Sgt Joseph Drobniak made Feb 19 at 2021 8:04 PM

2021-02-19T20:04:30-05:00

If a marksmanship badge is earned, it should worn. As an enlisted Marine if no badge was worn the first reaction is "Unqualified" so if they want to appear as unqualified, then so be it.

Response by SP5 Norman McGill made Feb 21 at 2021 8:37 PM

2021-02-21T20:37:55-05:00

Good. An officer from the ranks. best kind I think. Good job Captain Gillespie and thanks for being there for us. As for the medal I don't suppose it makes any difference if it's worn or not. It's earned by firing a rifle and officers don't carry rifles so what's the point? I would like to know he qualified with his side arm though.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Mar 22 at 2021 1:25 AM

2021-03-22T01:25:02-04:00

Why don't they? Cause they actually use people like us who can do the shooting as they sit their asses in offices and collect bronze stars

Response by MSgt Robert Branscome made Apr 2 at 2021 2:22 PM

2021-04-02T14:22:03-04:00

Yes I think they should. Medals show your accomplishments and any thing that a leader can show to shown to gain the confidence of his personal he should do. If he or she is ashamed of it then it should make that person work on the problem even harder. Set an example and the troops will understand as everyone is not an expert to start with.
Maybe it is as you said yours was only a "marksmanship badge" and they may like you, are not so proud of it. ONLY A GUESS as I do not know.

Response by MSgt Robert Branscome made Apr 2 at 2021 2:49 PM

2021-04-02T14:49:13-04:00

As a Marine for 20 years all my officers "DID" wear their badges and if they were not expert they would work their asses off to get one.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 3 at 2021 1:18 PM

2021-04-03T13:18:13-04:00

Mighty bold of you to assume they qualified...

Response by Cpl Tom Glendinning made Apr 3 at 2021 11:30 PM

2021-04-03T23:30:44-04:00

USMC
Daily greens or standard uniform of the day with standard ribbons, marksman badges are worn. In dress blues with ribbons, yes. With medals, no. This statement from observation of uniform photos and practice.

Response by CPO Robert Turner made Apr 5 at 2021 12:14 PM

2021-04-05T12:14:38-04:00

Naval Officers wear marksmanship ribbons and medals on their dress uniforms. Especially the Seabee CEC Officers. Combat skills in the Seabees is a big part of the culture in the NCF.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Apr 5 at 2021 2:16 PM

2021-04-05T14:16:37-04:00

I can't answer for the Army; however, I can answer for the Coast Guard. We're only required to wear the top three highest medal or ribbons and if you have qual badges only two. However, when dressed in Bravos, Whites, or Mess Dress if you got it wear it. When someone is wearing the aforementioned uniforms, you will find marksmanship medals. I do not think I have ever seen a Marine Officer or Enlisted w/o their marksmanship medals. Frankly, we're an armed service, all of us and our marksmanship medals indicate just how deadly we can be if necessary. It means you can handle "the tool" adequately, the primary tool of your trade.

Response by CDR Vic Monzon made Apr 6 at 2021 2:45 AM

2021-04-06T02:45:58-04:00

That may be the case in some services. I always wore my Expert Pistol and Rifle ribbons (bottom row). I cant find the image of my also wearing my All Navy bronze medal.

Response by CDR Vic Monzon made Apr 6 at 2021 2:49 AM

2021-04-06T02:49:07-04:00

There are apparently different interpretations among the services. I always wore my Expert Rifle and Expert Pistol awards (bottom row). But then again, I was both an E5 and an O5. Cant find the image of me wearing my Excellence in competition Bronze medal from All Navy Rifle and Pistol competitions.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 6 at 2021 9:47 AM

2021-04-06T09:47:53-04:00

"The range?! No time, these slides are due!"

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 6 at 2021 3:43 PM

2021-04-06T15:43:27-04:00

I know I am in the minority, but I will call it out for what it is to me. The Army Uniform is so fracking gaudy looking it doesn't need extra merit badges, trinkets and other foolish stuff on it. What is the purpose of an epaulette? It sure isn't designed for tacky unit crests and green felt leadership tabs. If we are going to wear Berets, use that damn epaulette for what the rest of the planet uses them for, stuff your head gear in them. You throw one real hand grenade and people seem to think you can wear that one forever. Drivers Badge: you went a year without an accident now you get a merit badge. Does a Blue Cord and plastic backing make you a better Infantry person? The meaning behind it is diluted to the point where it has little to no value. Regimental Crests: Why are people assigned to a regiment that has not fracking thing to do with the actual unit they are in? Okay I am off of my soap box.

Response by PFC Thomas Heine made Apr 10 at 2021 6:52 AM

2021-04-10T06:52:03-04:00

In a command role an officers accuracy was in his/her leadership role. The ability to put a bullet on target would be a plus more the officers own self survival in close combat. So as to say an average dog face knowing an officers firearm qualifications would be moot compared to his/her combat training and leadership skills.

Response by Lt Col Demetrio Aguila made Apr 19 at 2021 1:00 PM

2021-04-19T13:00:45-04:00

I was an officer in the Air Force, so I know that this doesn't necessarily apply directly, but since much of the military culture of the Air Force was derived, at least indirectly, from our Army forebears, it might prove useful to share. In the Air Force, officers are discouraged from wearing our ribbons on our "blues," what I believe in the Army is called the Class B uniform. The rationale was that as officers, we already have a position of authority over the enlisted personnel, and that we should avoid seeming as though there is some kind of contest between the officers and the NCOs. The enlisted personnel, we were told, should have the opportunity show off their accomplishments with pride, without concern for potentially being "shown up" by the officers. You could argue that the average lieutenant wouldn't have much to show off, so why not let them wear their ribbons, but that was the rationale. Is it possible that the same rationale might apply to the marksmanship devices in the Army?

Response by SSG Ricky Johnson made Apr 22 at 2021 11:10 AM

2021-04-22T11:10:43-04:00

Just wondering, when officers get their official military photographs, must they wear those marksmanship awards? In the 70s enlisted had to be in complete uniform, including all awards listed in their milpo file.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made May 2 at 2021 3:35 PM

2021-05-02T15:35:43-04:00

Officers can and in the units I served in most did. Best we could figure there were two reasons they didn't. This was later confirmed by an OCS butter bar that was a great leader. 1: for what ever reason the officer missed qualification day at the range. Rare but it did happen, and trust me the enlisted did notice. 2 the officer simply didn't qualify. One worse they did qualify but only at marksman or as a sharpshooter. Once again the enlisted noticed. If they were too proud to ware marksman or sharpshooter. The enlisted really noticed, and that was sure to get talked about. It's one thing to not be able to shoot it's really bad when you can't shoot and refuse to own that fact. A leader that shot marksman, and when asked about it said something like. It looks like I need to put more range time in and get a few pointers from ( insert random private that shot expert name) and then did put in the training time in and shot expert next time

Response by COL John Rosnow made May 2 at 2021 11:52 PM

2021-05-02T23:52:08-04:00

I used to wonder the same thing, and was told it is just the culture. I know reading the regulation, there was nothing that prohibited it, and I was proud that I qualified expert, so I normally wore mine.

I did however remove them for my last official photo as I was told by the people at the General Officer Management Office (GOMO) that it would be frowned upon to wear it and see it in a board file.

Response by LTJG Jeb Raitt made May 3 at 2021 12:55 PM

2021-05-03T12:55:53-04:00

In the Navy, marksmanship qualifications are denoted by actual medals rather than badges. It's fairly common to see officers wearing the pistol marksmanship ribbon. It's not that common to see enlisteds wearing either the pistol or rifle medal unless they're in a billet that requires it (such as MA), or are SEALs.
The medals are temporary at first, but after one qualifies three times it is permanent. And one may continue to shoot to raise their qualification level. An S is added to the medal or ribbon for sharpshooter and an E for expert.

Response by CW3 Joseph Lawrence made May 3 at 2021 2:13 PM

2021-05-03T14:13:34-04:00

I was at Carlisle Barracks getting an official photograph taken for my file when I was questioned by a Colonel who was there for the same thing. He wanted to know why I, as a Warrant Officer was wearing a marksmanship badge. He told me that officers weren't permitted to wear the badge, and i told him that the regulation said all, and that meant everybody. I wore it like I wore every badge and ribbon given to me as symbol of my pride in my accomplishments and my Army. Officers have the right to choose and i chose my badge. I would have worn it if it was just a marksman. I think sometimes officers don't wear the badge either because they haven't qualified with a weapon for years or they are embarrassed that they can't hit the target with watermelon. By the way the Colonel left for a half an hour and returned wearing his marksmanship badge

Response by CPT Andrew Trimble made May 3 at 2021 6:02 PM

2021-05-03T18:02:54-04:00

Please allow me to put this wonderful debate to bed. General George S. Patton put this one to bed in his books "The Patton Papers" I am not going to go back through them and find the page to reference the quote for you (sorry). I had the same observation and question in 1984 when I enlisted. The answer is thus; General Patton said "Officers do not wear qualification badges because they are expected to be experts in their field! this includes ALL weapon systems they may encounter!"

Response by CPT Andrew Trimble made May 3 at 2021 6:08 PM

2021-05-03T18:08:06-04:00

I was originally told the answer by my Battalion Commander. He was an old Cavalry Officer that earned my respect and trust and drove me to earn my commission. I eventually read the "Patton Papers" to learn where he got it from.

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made May 5 at 2021 10:51 AM

2021-05-05T10:51:13-04:00

They don't want to show off that pizza box...

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made May 5 at 2021 12:20 PM

2021-05-05T12:20:21-04:00

As many have said, by and large what an officer does with their weapon isn't that important. For the most part they should be concentrating on other things. However, it's embarrassing to have your command photo on the wall with pizza boxes, so we try to avoid that.

From experience, the badges do absolutely come out to play for inspections/ceremonies when we like to look shiny for the audience.

Response by SgtMaj Charles Spidell made May 6 at 2021 8:35 AM

2021-05-06T08:35:25-04:00

Must be an Army thing. Marine officers wear theirs with the exception of a few uniforms where they are not worn, same as enlisted.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2021 10:39 AM

2021-05-07T10:39:54-04:00

In the old days it was normal to wear. This informal not wearing was probably a way for a poor shooting officer to cover his ass with “I am an expert” in all that I do etc. so I don’t wear it.

Response by SSG David Spooner made May 8 at 2021 9:27 AM

2021-05-08T09:27:44-04:00

Have you ever seen an officer at a firing range? Have you ever seen an officer, that wasn't in a SPECOPS group, try to qualify? Hell, I wouldn't want to wear a BOLO badge either... KIDDING... COL Smallfield summed it up well..

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made May 8 at 2021 9:30 PM

2021-05-08T21:30:50-04:00

I always did wear mine, primarily because I always shot Expert, as a soldier, an NCO and as an Officer. I wanted my troops to know that their officer could shoot straight if need be.

Response by Cpl James Kelly made May 9 at 2021 9:07 PM

2021-05-09T21:07:30-04:00

Marine Corps Officers wear theirs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2021 12:41 AM

2021-05-11T00:41:37-04:00

There is no reference to officers wearing qualification badges. It’s seems to be a tradition not to. Possibly started by the officers who couldn’t shoot well! Lol!

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made May 11 at 2021 6:33 PM

2021-05-11T18:33:58-04:00

If the Army did one thing, just one thing, it could really clean up the uniform and make it look so much better. Nothing, except name tag, on the right breast.

A comment to former Marines (yes, I know, there are no former Marines). When I made the switch from the Marine Corps to the Army I made comparisons and thought the Marines did it right. Stop comparing, they are separate branches with different missions and history. Marines win battles, the Army wins wars.

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made May 12 at 2021 2:47 PM

2021-05-12T14:47:46-04:00

Why would anyone care.

Response by Capt Phillip Williams made May 13 at 2021 9:43 AM

2021-05-13T09:43:26-04:00

Marine Corps Officers do/can wear Marksman ship badges.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2021 4:54 PM

2021-05-13T16:54:43-04:00

Its tradition. Soldiers will know if you can't shoot. I ensured my officers cared by including their qual score and APFT score in every one of their evaluations. Suddenly, they cared and would ask their NCO's for help if they needed it. I don't care what is on your chest, rather how well you and your Soldiers perform their primary mission.

Response by SFC Daniel Eliseuson made May 14 at 2021 12:45 AM

2021-05-14T00:45:16-04:00

If a us military person does not wear all earned accrued awards they are then out of uniform

The exception is US Coast Guard that cannot display parachute “Jump Wings”
(Airborne)

This may have changed in the past few years

Cheers
Rangoon

The only exception was USCoat Huard are not allowed to wear parachute wings…. This may have changed

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2021 6:37 PM

2021-05-18T18:37:58-04:00

When I looked at David Petraeus’ uniform I thought he had more badges, pins, and medals than Generals Eisenhower, MacArthur, and Patton combined. Almost Eagle Scoutish. Less is better. Balance is better. Thrilled the Pinks and Greens returned. Wish they had been authorized in 1967-70. A Big Red One patch on my right shoulder was all that was needed.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Jun 13 at 2021 11:09 PM

2021-06-13T23:09:46-04:00

After I was commissioned I continued to wear my marksmanship badges that I earned as an enlisted man, I made expert several times including the .45. I was not ashamed of that. When your fire base is overrun the officers fight too. Frankly I was never aware of the tradition; but rarely analyzed the medals someone else was wearing. We wore them only on special occasions anyway

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Jun 14 at 2021 2:07 PM

2021-06-14T14:07:24-04:00

When I got to Panama I was assigned to SOCSOUTH in the J2. I was assigned a 9mm pistol. I asked why am I not being assigned a rifle, the J2 reminded me that I am senior staff now. Your assigned weapon will be determined by your position; however, since all soldiers must qualify with their weapon I fail to see why officers don't wear them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2021 2:53 PM

2021-06-14T14:53:56-04:00

I was always told that it is something like you don't want to have the guy I'm charge showing that he is just a marksman when so many others are experts

Response by SFC George “Bones” Small made Jun 14 at 2021 5:44 PM

2021-06-14T17:44:06-04:00

I always considered it a thing of officer pride, rank seniority, and requirement of respect. No group of officers would ever want anything to visually show that they are lacking any superiority of skill that the soldiers they lead are required to have. I’m not saying it would ever happen just over skills in weaponry, but their are some lower enlisted knowing no idea of things yet, who might feel their officer is lacking when the only thing they display is basic pistol marksmanship while they’re currently an expert and sharpshooter in a number of different weapons.

Response by SPC Bryan Gustafson made Jun 18 at 2021 11:55 AM

2021-06-18T11:55:07-04:00

This is a very good question. Some years ago (1986) while attached to 1st SFG(A) at Ft. Lewis, I had a platoon sergeant (who was an SFC(P) and very conversant with AR670-1) who was acutely aware of the fact officers did not wear marksmanship badges. He then removed badge. He was occasionally challenged by inspecting officers in formation but after explaining that officers are not exempt, per regulation, from the wearing of the badge in question but do not do so, they left him alone.

Response by CPT Matthew Lee made Jun 18 at 2021 12:09 PM

2021-06-18T12:09:23-04:00

Officers are expected to be experts in everything. Wearing or not wearing a badge does not change that expectation. Wearing a badge says yes I am an expert, here is my badge to prove it. Not wearing a badge allows it to remain implied that that I am an expert. The dirty secret is: NO ONE CAN BE AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING. Being an officer, subtlety is one of our secret weapons. Knowing who is an expert and delegating or deferring to a subject matter expert is one of the best skills an officer can develop.
I am not a Master Gunner. I don't know the ballistic coefficient of every weapon in my MTOE. I know the Master Gunner. He can rattle that off from memory. I can cook an MRE and spice it up to my liking. But others would not like the food if I prepared it for a company or battalion sized element. I am not the first cook. I let cooks handle cooking for everyone... (and I should let the troops eat first. They are the ones doing the work.)
Stick to this:
If you can't figure it out yourself, ask a NCO you trust. Make sure you verify before you execute. You can trust me and what I say because I am a Retired Officer. Also, did I mention that I am an Expert at everything?

Response by COL David Petray made Jun 22 at 2021 9:23 AM

2021-06-22T09:23:54-04:00

When I was a new Lieutenant, I was told that officers don’t wear marksmanship badges because it was assumed officers always qualified as expert. Yes, I know, ridiculous. The other maxim was that as an officer you were required to max you APFT every time (which I did until I tore my ACL). It was the whole, “zero defects” mentality which the Generals swore didn’t exist but really did. One mistake, you’ve seen your last promotion. Hopefully things are better now than they were when I was on AD (86-2008).

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made Jun 24 at 2021 8:04 PM

2021-06-24T20:04:10-04:00

Never wore marksmanship badges as a warrant officer, just didn't. Don't have them in a retirement shadow box either.

Response by LTC Martin Glynn made Jun 25 at 2021 4:08 AM

2021-06-25T04:08:03-04:00

When I was a Lieutenant in the 82nd Airborne Division, I learned that the officers of the 75th Ranger Regiment were required to wear the marksmanship badges they had earned, and those badges had better be Expert badges. It made sense that all leaders in the 75th were expected to set the example, so a lot of us in the 82nd decided to do the same. I wore my Expert badge on my Class A’s until I retired, and I kept it current too.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2021 6:49 PM

2021-07-04T18:49:39-04:00

One component of this is the collective leadership of the battle that officers are trained and equipped to lead, and all USMC dogma aside, all Army officers must qualify with the basic infantry rifle to earn the commission. Their recognition and awards - and efficiency evaluations - are about what they are able to achieve with their unit.

Response by TSgt Ray Lewis made Jul 5 at 2021 11:47 PM

2021-07-05T23:47:35-04:00

Some Officers do wear Marksmanship Badges. I just depends on the type of Badge. I have know a number of Officers that have warn a Distinguished Rifle or Pistol Badge including International Distinguished Rifle or Pistol Badges.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Jul 6 at 2021 8:03 AM

2021-07-06T08:03:27-04:00

I used to shoot Expert, and I had the jewelry to prove it. But the most memorable "qualification" I received was in April, 2006 in Afghanistan. After watching our ANA shoot, for the most part poorly, we took a little time to verify our zeros at 100 meters. One of our SF NCOs looked at my target, then turned to me and said "Yep, you're a killer." They don't make a badge for that.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Jul 6 at 2021 4:01 PM

2021-07-06T16:01:09-04:00

I enlisted and became a Sergeant before earning my commission. I did wear my marksmanship badge as an officer because I fired Expert and was proud of that. Also wore my German Army Schutzenschnur as well.

Response by SGT James Morrissette made Jul 8 at 2021 7:16 PM

2021-07-08T19:16:27-04:00

I was only a medic and when deployed was the most I had used my rifle and didn't qualify with a pistol until trainup but I believe that officers should not only proficient with all the weapons that their soldiers use but should wear the qual badges so that it instills confidence in their soldiers that they are competent with said weapons. The reasoning behind my opinion is that in iraq not only were our platoon leaders relaying orders from the battle captain but they were right there participating in the fight where they were needed as well. Not sure how other guard units in other states operated but that is how we operated in Vermont and our unit was told we set the standard for operations for the iraq and afghanistan theater.
Signing off, Sgt. James "doc" Morrissette

Response by Sgt Dennis Doty made Jul 11 at 2021 7:16 PM

2021-07-11T19:16:52-04:00

Depends on the traditions of your branch of service. General David H. Berger, Commandant of the Marine Corps.

Response by SFC Warren Jueschke made Jul 18 at 2021 12:54 PM

2021-07-18T12:54:38-04:00

Because they are ashamed of their lack of prowess with a weapon!!!!! V/R, MSG Ret.

Response by SPC Marvin Darling made Jul 19 at 2021 5:20 PM

2021-07-19T17:20:39-04:00

Back in my time we called them bolo badges. Unless it has changed AR670-1 stated that it was a temporary award since it could change whenever you had to requalify. Temporary awards do not ( or at least did not then ) have to be worn. If regulation has not changed nobody is required to wear marksmanship badges. Drivers badges would be required because it is a permanent award. Check that out because if it wasn't optional for all it wouldn't be optional for any no matter the rank.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Jul 19 at 2021 9:46 PM

2021-07-19T21:46:26-04:00

I will push the easy button on this. Because they can’t shoot and they do not want to be embarrassed.

Response by SPC Stephan Baker made Jul 19 at 2021 11:35 PM

2021-07-19T23:35:45-04:00

officers wearing a markmanship badge is kinda like a poog wearing a grenade markmanship badge,,, although I will comment... some of the officers couldn't pass the grenade range. and don't be super impressed with officer rank... ask their NCO sidekick before you drool

Response by Cpl Brian Escobar made Jul 21 at 2021 3:06 PM

2021-07-21T15:06:47-04:00

Reminds me of my time in the Corps as a well deployed and traveled Marine Combat Vet ....Our newly minted butter bar Lt. fresh out of Quantico.... Made a comment about my Army Jump Wings being off centered (they weren't and neither was my Rifle Expert Badge...) and my C.A.R. Ribbon being dingy (it wasn't)...I made the fatal mistake of responding..."I'll be sure to get them as squared away as your "pizza box" (3rd Class Rifle Badge) Sir"...I thought I saw a blood vessel burst in his eyeball! Lol....after that SSgt. made sure...I got every shit working party and assignment under that jack off's command....It was worth it though, especially a year later when we all went to re-qual in Okinawa, I re-qual'd Expert and he ended up only upgrading to a Maltese Cross (Second Class)! Lol...But yeah, that's how much the freaking Rifle Qual Badge means in the Marine Corps...whether you lay down lead on an MG Crew, Sling Arty, Bake the Commandants B-Day Cakes or Shoot down Migs in your F-35....the Rifle Marksmanship Badge ain't everything on the Uniform...It's the only thing...We don't have a "Soldiers, Sailors, or Marines Creed, we have The....

Rifleman's Creed (Prayer)

"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than the enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, or the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit.

My rifle is human, even as I am human, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy."

-Amen

Response by MSG William Hesser made Jul 24 at 2021 2:39 PM

2021-07-24T14:39:20-04:00

Depends on the unit.
When I was in the Airborne unit, all who had qualified wore their "bolo" badge.
When I went SF, we all, officers included, had to qualify "expert" every year (at least in my group), so it was not necessary to show the "bolo" badge on our "class A's". Our Special Forces Tab said it all.

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Jul 25 at 2021 11:07 AM

2021-07-25T11:07:43-04:00

After reading the comments I'll throw in my retired two cents for what it's worth. I spent the vast majority of my career as an Infantryman. In an Infantry platoon everyone wants to know that their leaders are physically fit and can shoot (among other things). Enlisted men in the Infantry would like to see how their PL or CO shoots. They already know, but excluding it from your uniform is almost like hiding your PT score from Soldiers. An Infantry leader or any Army leader needs to leads from the front and at the very basic be able to out PT and out shoot most of your platoon/company. Soldiers want to see leaders who are physically fit and can shoot. One of our basic duties as a Soldier E-1 or O-9 is to shoot. If you leave IBOLC and can't shoot expert get with your new platoon and hit the range to be a better shot. Your great shots can coach and train you to be an expert. Don't hide the fact that you're not an expert and learn to shoot better. Lead from the front by setting the example. Not wearing your marksmanship badges gives the appearance that officers can't shoot and/or are hiding that fact. Wear your marksmanship badges in front of your Soldiers good or bad then thrive to better yourself instead of hiding it. This will get you more respect with your soldiers.

Response by PO3 Lynn Spalding made Jul 25 at 2021 8:41 PM

2021-07-25T20:41:48-04:00

If an Officer has earned the badges he should wear them.

Response by SPC Julio L R. made Jul 27 at 2021 5:31 PM

2021-07-27T17:31:01-04:00

They probable can't shoot anywho. :-)

Response by SGT Dennis Bolin made Aug 2 at 2021 9:42 PM

2021-08-02T21:42:00-04:00

They just weren’t smart enough to put them on there uniform by reg. Lol

Response by LTC Richard Wasserman made Aug 18 at 2021 10:06 PM

2021-08-18T22:06:17-04:00

It's not their primary mission. Leadership should be. It should be secondary, but maybe necessary if the situation calls for it.

Response by SP5 James Elmore made Aug 19 at 2021 1:20 AM

2021-08-19T01:20:40-04:00

Why would an officer point out that he didn’t shoot expert? Undermines confidence? Speculating of course.

Response by SP5 James Elmore made Aug 19 at 2021 1:25 AM

2021-08-19T01:25:16-04:00

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Response by SFC Lyle Green made Aug 21 at 2021 2:19 PM

2021-08-21T14:19:44-04:00

Excuse my maybe senseless rambling, I’m certified nuts. Knowing that my opinion based on my impressions that were formed during my combat experience, will more than likely create a dodo storm. That is not my intention, nor do I disagree with many of the other posts on the matter of wearing any “earned” insignia on one’s uniform. If it complies with the standards, stated in applicable regulations. So, what I hope to emphasize is not one’s skill to place a projectile in a 1”, 5”, or even a 2 ft. spot on a static target at any distance required (not a target that shoots back). That is a must for any military personal, period, regardless of the weapon one is required to be armed with during a hostile encounter or environment. The badge or badges discussed only depicts a warrior’s skill, what is not only important but essential is the “ability” to perform that skill in any and all situations. What was a shocker for me (personally speaking) was the first, second reactions I “suffered” in a real honest to goodness, fire fight, or directly confronting a live target that was shooting at yours truly. If not for the abilities of those next to me, I would be just another name of that Black Wall. My father (a WWII Veteran of Italy, Omaha Beach and severely wounded entering Germany 1945) gave me my first rifle when I was 9 years old. A single shot Remington 22 bolt action. Due mainly to luck, once when he and I were shooting I zeroed in on a single crow at what I have always guessed to be at around 100 yds., I almost swallowed my teeth when that crow fell outa that tree to the ground. In my disbelief encouraged by my father, I was hooked that day and have been since, a passionate, addicted shooter. In the military 1967 they were changing from the M-14 to the M-16, as I had to qualify on the M14 in Basic all had to requalify on the new weapons of that time. Jumping the opportunity to Volunteer for so called special weapons training, I was in hog heaven getting to fire and fire alot to qualify with those new weapons before going to Vietnam. I have to admit I was one cocky 19-year-old with my new shooting skills. In Vietnam, I spent several weeks attending all sorts of other training with all sorts of fun dodas to blow up things and kill people, also I was highly qualified in Cutting 50 gallon barrels in half and burning tons of dodo, I still smell that burning dodo and diesel fuel ( JP-4 was much better, didn’t smoke so much). To my point, I considered myself well trained and qualified to enter the ranks of warfare, emphasizes on “I considered”. Later the truth of war, conflict and reality came to bear and should have been my end. On search patrol at night in a suppose friendly villa, my platoon leader and I came face to face with a female sporting an AK, when I put my flashlight in her face, I recognized her as one of our laundry girls. I knew as she raised her weapon and got off a short burst, I was going to get shot but for the life of me I could not move, froze, hoping it wouldn’t hurt to much getting shot. Standing there, with the light still in her face I may have heard one or two rounds she fired but could see the muzzle blasts, I saw her grimace and she fall backwards. My Platoon leader had put 2 rounds of 00 buck shot in her chest and I never heard the sound of his shotgun blasts with him maybe a foot or two away. There I stood, so qualified, trained, yet locked up like a statue with the enemy 15 ft. away lying on the ground. The next occasion I took direct fire, I was able to snap out of the fear freeze, take cover and return fire. This phenomenon was common with many FNG’s during their initial encounter with up close and personal direct fire encounters, also happened amongst experienced men. Few others I knew of, or I had witnessed, that survived, would ever admit to their experiences of locking up. I must tell of my father and I having our little discussion several days after I returned from Vietnam. Understand my father and I were never close nor did he discuss much of his war details, once I mustered the nerve to ask my father “ dad did you ever piss in your pants during the war? A smile came to his face as he told me, yes, I did several times, if someone ever says they didn’t they are a lying SOB”. At times my job was to talk down others that had froze up and remained in shock, several of the worst cases we had to talk down while they hunkered in a bunker with their weapons threatening to kill themselves, some did. In my company three or four had to be locked up for attempting suicide, UCMJ section 8s were fairly common during my tenure in Vietnam. After VN I was in law enforcement, it was a frequent curse of many police depts. That their officers would not shoot when involved in a deadly encounter at the cost of officers or innocents’ lives. It was and continues to be a serious problem in law enforcement agencies across the country, officers will not fire their weapon, freeze or panic. They have the skills, training to fire accurately with their but lack the Ability to use the weapon in deadly force encounters. Most of my years after VN I have attended training schools, so called training classes for self-defense, worked with law-enforcement agencies, gave individual classes to teach the Mindset of being able to overcome these conditions that prevent a person from firing their weapons. Create their skills to fire their weapons and the Ability to do so. Any warrior that has been in a “no fire” situation, or was accused of being a coward, was never guilty of such. They had never been taught to overcome, dealt with or expect the natural human instinct of survival. This was problem was addressed after WWII by Gen. S.L.A.M. Marshall who found only 12% of solo riflemen would fire their rifle, not considering group operated/fired weapons, direct motivation by a superior, distance fired weapons i.e., Machine guns, artillery, aircraft bombardment, etc. Training was improved, primarily converting from paper bulls eye targets to human silhouettes, solo firing rate then increased to 55% in Korea to 95% in Vietnam. I have been a staunch follower of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman for many years. His excellent books “On Combat” “On Killing” are required reads for many government agencies and law enforcement. Everyone in military or law enforcement should read these two books over and over again. So many of Vietnam Veterans (self-included) who suffer the devastating life long effects of their War experiences, could have been avoided completely or drastically reduced severity of, by knowing what to expect and learn/know the natural reactions of the human being to War and it’s traumas. The military during the early 90’s realized this problem and began the excellent and effective methodology of training, instilling the mindset, etc. to over come these negative effects. Now I don’t know if the disgusting (IMO) boy scout, woke, lie don’t tell BS, everybody gets a medal, everybody is a winner, etc. attitudes have voided that valuable training, by being deemed “offensive or Hurtful” or some brand of ism..

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Aug 21 at 2021 5:31 PM

2021-08-21T17:31:35-04:00

Marine Officers do.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2021 9:13 AM

2021-08-23T09:13:58-04:00

A more likely thought here, no offense to other ideas, but as an officer, we are supposed to lead, that I agree upon, and in that, Officers are supposed to be already at the top of the capability ladder in shooting, etc.
A second thought, is that if it was by regulation mandatory, it could easily say to the enlisted, "why doesn't THAT officer have the marksmanship badge or this or that?" Best to leave the skills where they are and recognize the enlisted with due badges where it will count first and the most, in battle. Beyond that, Officer's don't need it and frankly, if you cannot shoot as an officer, you should be ashamed, but you also don't need to show everyone else all the badges like some of the officers I've seen wear their various patches - just to show off. My $0.02.

Response by CPO Robert Turner made Sep 3 at 2021 10:29 AM

2021-09-03T10:29:11-04:00

Naval Officers wear marksmanship badges for the M9 and the M16. CEC Officers wear them proudly. Properly maintaining, safety protocols and shooting a weapon in the Seabees is one of the most important of all training evolutions. Seabee Officers must be able to handle a weapon properly. The places we go we need them. We Build, We Fight.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Sep 12 at 2021 8:34 PM

2021-09-12T20:34:36-04:00

My experience most of them can not shoot to save there butt's.
Not saying that is all but that is most of the one's I have seen on the ranges.
There targets usually get the PEN punch on the targets.

Response by MSgt Jim Bob made Sep 18 at 2021 1:51 AM

2021-09-18T01:51:33-04:00

Marine officers wear them, js

Response by SGM Robert King made Oct 27 at 2021 12:48 PM

2021-10-27T12:48:55-04:00

The comment of officers don’t wear the marksmanship badges because they are individual I will say BS. The officers wear a chest full of ribbons that are individual. I think that they don’t wear them is because e they can barley shoot.

Response by COL Billy Welch, PMP made Oct 27 at 2021 6:05 PM

2021-10-27T18:05:36-04:00

One of my Infantry Bn Commanders emphasized that officers lead the way with individual skills and Officers were encouraged to earn the EIB. Officers wore marksmanship badges. The most coveted was for the Bayonet.

Response by Cpl Tom Glendinning made Dec 7 at 2021 8:56 PM

2021-12-07T20:56:58-05:00

They do in the Marine Corps. Expert badge was a sign of high achievement. One Marine saying is "Every Marine a rifleman." That holds true throughout. But Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard do not stress that skill in jobs that are not infantry or front line. Every Marine qualifies every year at the range. I have heard that most MOS in the Army do not require annual qualification. But who knows?

Response by LCDR Stuart Howard made Dec 8 at 2021 9:50 AM

2021-12-08T09:50:26-05:00

Navy doesn't have marksmanship badges, (medals and ribbons). I earned, requalified and wore mine whenever I wore the whole set but most days it was just top three below aviators wings if any at all

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2021 11:26 AM

2021-12-08T11:26:51-05:00

There is no document or regulation preventing Officers from wearing qualification badges. I am proud to say that throughout my 25+ year career I never shot less than expert (M4 & M9). However, when I made the transition from NCO to WO, I had a mentoring session with a Senior Warrant. He told me that Officers don’t wear them. I told him that I earned it. He very wisely told me that Officers are expected to be perfect. The reality is that we all are not. Anything less than perfection (Expert) reduces them in the eyes of subordinates. Your image as a leader is very important.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Dec 8 at 2021 3:04 PM

2021-12-08T15:04:16-05:00

I wore mine.
In Class As, not on TWs.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 8 at 2021 8:40 PM

2021-12-08T20:40:42-05:00

Nobody who shoots "Marksman" likes to wear badges ;o)

Response by MAJ Robert Whitman made Dec 9 at 2021 8:18 PM

2021-12-09T20:18:29-05:00

When I was commissioned, I had almost two years enlisted. I, and my fellow OCs, were told officers don’t wear marksmanship badges. It was explained as a “cultural thing,” and no regulations prohibit an officer from wearing those badges. Another thing the instructors pointed out was the officer who did wear those badges was prior enlisted. I asked why it seemed to be such a problem to some officers that other officers came up through the ranks? The instructor was a WP graduate and made sure we knew it. Other instructors, like most of our class, were prior enlisted and were the ones we learned the most from. Our TAC officer was ROTC and no one really liked her.

Response by Col Col Wayne Morris USMC (Ret) made Dec 10 at 2021 10:47 AM

2021-12-10T10:47:23-05:00

Some interesting comments and yes, somewhat culturally oriented towards Branch of Service, etc. I'm a Mustang Mud Marine, Pvt-Col, multiple tours in RVN and 17+ months in AFG on DoD contract. In that regard, I've served with all branches of our great armed forces and have had this issue come up for discussion numerous times. Speaking solely for the Marines...we ALL wear our "shooting badges" when appropriate with the uniform being worn. Wishing all y'all a Merry CHRISTmas and the best 2022 we can come up giving all the crap going on around us! Semper Fidelis, Lobo Sendz

Response by Cpl Raymond Wiltshire made Dec 10 at 2021 12:39 PM

2021-12-10T12:39:40-05:00

In the Marine Corps marksmanship badges are worn by both enlisted and officers.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Dec 10 at 2021 4:40 PM

2021-12-10T16:40:59-05:00

I first enlisted before becoming an NCO and then later earning my commission. During my second marksmanship qualification as an enlisted soldier I fired Expert and always thereafter. I also qualified with German Army weapons and earned a Schutzenschnur from the German Bundeswehr.

I was proud that I was competent with my assigned weapons, so I wore the Expert Marksman badge. I see no issue with it, other than some officers didn't shoot well and did not want to display that fact.

Response by LTC Robert Gray made Dec 11 at 2021 4:13 AM

2021-12-11T04:13:34-05:00

My experience is that the Officer corps is generally lacking in marksmanship and are ashamed of their lack of aility.

I always wore my badges. I expected my subordinate officers and senior NCO to all qualify Expert. When they started wearing their badges overall marksmanship in the unit improved.
When I was assigned to a Higher headquarters, Command. I wore my Expert badges. Other officers who were shooters donned theirs. Eventually, the badges started to appear our officers set the example and focused on their shooting skills.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Dec 11 at 2021 10:59 PM

2021-12-11T22:59:27-05:00

Interesting observation. If it is not prohibited by reg, I would wear something that I had earned. Is it possible that you received your commission through OTS and the others were West point or ROTC grads? The difference may be that they were not afforded a marksmanship badge. I know that in the USAF, officers qualified on side arms such as 9mm and .38 pistols. Enlisted and NCOs qualified on rifles such as the M-16. We only received ribbons vs badges for qualification and you had to fire in the expert category to receive authorization. We had a whole lot of "retread" officers that came through OTS/OCS that had been enlisted and wore all sorts of ribbons and medals that officers only did not have. One got used to seeing "Good conduct" medals on officers, which signified that they had prior enlisted time. The bizarre ribbons were the ones from other services that you couldn't find on an AF ribbon/medal poster, and had to go to a DoD poster instead. I might consult with a fellow company grade officer and ask if there is a protocol or is it a choice?

Response by MSG Harvey Kane made Dec 12 at 2021 1:45 PM

2021-12-12T13:45:56-05:00

I was in a reserve detachment of 8 commanded by a full colonel. We had to do our yearly qualification. The Colonel was given a worn out barrel shaking .45. He took his stance aimed and fired. He didn't break paper. He hrumphed and moved closer to the target and after continued misses he was about 3 feet from the target and finally scored. The range sgt said: Sir I can't qualify you to which the colonel replied: Sgt, I'm a full colonel I would command a division, there are about 21,000 troops between me and the enemy and believe me if the enemy gets to me they will be about 3 feet away. The Sgt passed him. And that's why officers don't wear marksmanship badges!

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2021 11:52 AM

2021-12-27T11:52:28-05:00

We wear them in the Navy. Must be an Army culture thing.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jan 5 at 2022 6:51 PM

2022-01-05T18:51:10-05:00

Bit ironic that the army with all the shiny brass and buttons they wear that the officers don’t add on the shooting badges. Seems a do dad medal driven branch. Just my opinion on that one.

Response by CPT Ian Stewart made Jan 6 at 2022 1:58 PM

2022-01-06T13:58:01-05:00

This is a bit off subject, but I'll provide it as an FYI
It is customary, and in some cases by regulation, that officers in many foreign armies do not wear weapons qualification awards - example: In the German Bundeswehr (Armed Forces), officers must qualify with their sidearm, but do not wear the "Schuetzenschnur" (weapons qualification cord or rope). Only NCOs and EM wear it. The logic is that as an officer he/she is "expected" to qualify and therefore does not receive the award.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2022 2:21 PM

2022-01-07T14:21:03-05:00

I’ve worn them and haven’t worn them. Frankly, I don’t spend too much time thinking about a uniform that I rarely wear. Too many leaders spend entirely too much time focusing on things that simply don’t matter.

If you’re an NCO, why are you worried about what Officers do? I’d rather you worry about ensuring your female Soldiers aren’t being sexually harassed by your peers. Can your young Sergeants train 10 level Soldiers, not just on technical and tactical tasks…but are they giving and teaching good life skills, providing advice, and creating atmospheres where Soldiers enjoy serving. Are you giving them their quarterly counseling’s that give them the right career azimuth to be successful?

Are our young Company Commanders being led to make smart choices or are they just being yes men/women and doing what they think is going to put them in a good light with their BN Commander? Can they identify Soldiers who are struggling mentally, physically, or chemically within their formations and get them the support they need and deserve before they go off the deep end?

Are our Warrant Officers continuing to earn their Warrant as Officers by giving the boss the information that will assist in keeping the unit afloat? Are they making sure that Junior Warrant Officers are being treated as such, or are they allowing them to be looked at as LTs and not SMEs?

Lots and lots on our plate, that merits deeper and more critical thinking.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Jan 17 at 2022 10:59 AM

2022-01-17T10:59:27-05:00

Perhaps one the higher up Officers could help your understanding'
my vote would be to wear it !
Vietnam Vet /

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2022 6:27 PM

2022-01-17T18:27:54-05:00

My old Brigade Commander would wear his badges. It's just not commonly done with officers.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Jan 17 at 2022 8:12 PM

2022-01-17T20:12:44-05:00

My dad was a 1st sgt.....He told me if I couldnt qualify as expert, to not advertise my failures. lol. I got expert in Rifle, Pistol, Hand grenade, M3 submachinegun, and Tank weapons,,,,Having all that hanging under the expert badge felt awesome.

Response by LTC John Bush made Jan 18 at 2022 11:45 AM

2022-01-18T11:45:37-05:00

all good points. I stayed away from Army shooting though I was a competitor in college and concentrated on learning my trade in the field which served me well.

Response by GySgt Thomas Lieb made Jan 28 at 2022 12:04 PM

2022-01-28T12:04:56-05:00

Must be an Army thing https://www.google.com/search?q=show+photos+of+Marine+Corps+General+officers+with+marksmanship+badges&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=qstsrPLOs26GxM%252CS9zbcFk16c8hVM%252C_%253BKU3QIj1_DrLLoM%252COPnFn9gzbQhJXM%252C_%253BLv-YzrBoGX8eJM%252C0CASYt7tuyymgM%252C_%253BSM1EEbdeHL2mPM%252CZS-keJttfD0nBM%252C_%253Bd4pG3XWDMOl1PM%252CuD4IZKzYNBQplM%252C_%253BSr2O9j-4ccqLOM%252CVAxrAhkyH9M47M%252C_%253BeJN2BZbXyVRQFM%252Ci5IdvI8TOjUiCM%252C_%253BPnczuXJfB_R5ZM%252CNRwVpPrM81woKM%252C_%253BaiaqY_DYYRFQjM%252Ci5IdvI8TOjUiCM%252C_%253BNjIv-LZh2u10RM%252C6brKayVKl9iQQM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kSO2xp0ROCMtWIZLnsqQ8W1V0Rs1w&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjs4seh9tT1AhXCJ0QIHbZzC0QQ9QF6BAgiEAE#imgrc=SM1EEbdeHL2mPM

show photos of Marine Corps General officers with marksmanship badges - Google Search

Response by CDR Matthew McLaughlin made Feb 24 at 2022 9:31 AM

2022-02-24T09:31:35-05:00

This is one of those RP discussions that assumes a particular branch of service; in this case, the Army. It would be useful if such assumptions were stated.
As a number of Marines have pointed out, this practice doesn't seem to exist in the Corps. In the Navy, marksmanship awards aren't that common in the big three communities (aviation, surface, and submarines), except for boarding parties and such. There's a general perception that "Sailors and small arms don't mix", mostly due to a lack of training. It's not a primary mission requirement.
OTOH, in the brown water Navy, officers were closely observed by the enlisted folks when we shot for qualification, and expected to wear what we earned. I saw it as similar to submarine quals; I knew that a Sailor wearing Dolphins had the basic knowledge to contribute to our safe return home if "bad stuff" happened. Similarly, my shooting Expert on rifle and pistol ensured my team that I took that aspect seriously and would be part of the solution if the SHTF. When we deployed, my security team leader (a former USMC Gunny) made sure there was an M-16 with my name on. Not my official carry weapon, and I'd probably never use it, but I took it as a sign of respect and confidence from my team.

Response by CPL Todd Herman made Feb 24 at 2022 8:32 PM

2022-02-24T20:32:26-05:00

To embarrassed because they didn't score any higher on their quals? Lol

Response by PO2 Joan MacNeill made Feb 25 at 2022 12:49 AM

2022-02-25T00:49:11-05:00

This thread goes into marksmanship in general, beside the badge issue. That takes me back to my time in, the 1960s. The Navy seemed not to encourage small arms proficiency. True, most Naval weapons are really big arms, and sailors rarely actually see enemy personnel. But that isn't a good reason to not support shooting. On one ship, as a known shooter, a shipmate invited me to come along on a pistol team practice. Afterward, some official told me I shouldn't have attended since I wasn't a team member. Shameful attitude. I had a .45 that I checked in on reporting for duty. On one base I checked it out for practice outdoors, and when I returned it I was told that I couldn't just check it out and in like that. Also shameful. At least on another ship the Gunner's Mate who ran the small arms locker felt differently. I could take it out and in anytime, and he supported me with ammo and supplies. Rare, it seems. At least on many submarines, it is common to come to a stop sometimes, and let the crew have a little practice on floating targets (trash). On the surface, of course. Har. A shooting day is still one of my highlights. Sort of off the subject, I recall a bumper sticker: "Happiness is a belt-fed weapon."

Response by CPT Larry Birkner made Feb 25 at 2022 3:55 PM

2022-02-25T15:55:49-05:00

Custom is not to wear.

Response by LTC Brett Weeks made Feb 26 at 2022 2:31 PM

2022-02-26T14:31:00-05:00

In my 23-plus years, l never heard a satisfactory answer to that question either, although l learned about it the first day l reported to my first unit at Fort Hood as a newly minted 2LT. I reported to my CO in my dress greens, with nothing on my chest but an ASR, airborne wings, and weapons qualification badges from IOBC. I was proud of them, because l have been a good shot since l was a little kid. The company commander- who was not a nice person, and who l grew to dislike more over time- looked me up and down and said: “take that shit off! Officers don’t wear qualification badges!” Later, l asked the XO about it, and his answer gave me a clue about the command climate, and awards policy. He said that officers were leaders of units, not weapons operators, and qualification badges were “trinkets and baubles” intended to keep the EMs happy- make them feel like they had accomplished something, since they rarely received any awards. You just about had to die to be considered for any kind of award- more so if you were an officer. While it is (or was) tradition in most places that officers got at least an ARCOM when they PCSed, when l left Hood, l got nada, zip.

Of course, we still were expected to qualify “expert” on the rifle for EIB testing, and on my worst days, l never shot less than 38/40.

I like the theory, that somewhere in the past, some senior officer couldn’t shoot worth a damn, so rather than embarrass himself with a “marksman” badge, or no badge, he outlawed the badges for officers. But we’ll never know for sure…

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2022 3:19 PM

2022-02-26T15:19:23-05:00

Former Marine, current Army officer. I wear my marksmanship badges. For two reasons. I earned them and it rubs some of my fellow officers the wrong way.

Response by MAJ Joseph Martin made Feb 28 at 2022 5:54 PM

2022-02-28T17:54:45-05:00

SSG ROCK is a leg Ranger twice awarded CIB... MMMMMMM

Response by SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman made Mar 4 at 2022 9:15 PM

2022-03-04T21:15:27-05:00

For some odd reason that never made any sense to me, officers prior to WW2, only carried side arms. Ergo, marksmanship was not an award issued to officers The typical firearm for a general was a 32 caliber pistol. Patton carried the 45 single action Colt revolver (tank gunners don't get marksmanship medals). Most other officers carried the 45 automatic. In the first place, a man with a pistol who faces an enemy holding a rifle, is in deep yogurt. Secondly, few people can reliably hit a target at 25 years with a handgun....regardless what the movies show. By WW2, infantry officers were were beginning to insist on a "real weapon". While the GI was issued the 30-06 M1 Garand, officers found a compromise in the lightweight 30 caliber M1 Carbine...while only 1/3rd as powerful as the M1 Garand, it had twice the power of the 45, and far more accuracy (up to 300 yards). None the less, officers continued to portray themselves as leaders of men rather than marksmen. Old traditions are difficult to discard. US Army, Vietnam

Response by PO1 Thomas McMurray made Apr 5 at 2022 10:26 PM

2022-04-05T22:26:22-04:00

Absolutely. In the Coast Guard as instructor I always had the officers firing with the enlisteds. The competition was always friendly, but fierce.Our recognition is in ribbons that are at the bottom of the ribbon rack. We have one ribbon for pistol and one ribbon for rifle. We use letters, "S" for sharpshooter, and "E" for expert. Marksman was the plain ribbon and it was the entry level.
Once a person qualifies for a letter they can wear it as is, or they can request a requal on the basic course to upgrade to sharpshooter or expert at any time. Competition is great to get the Expert qual, and everybody tries until they earn it. I would put any of our Coasties, including officers, up against any other branch. They have to qualify twice yearly on the CQB courses to be on a boat as a boarding officer, but the others come out because they like the competition. They must qualify every 6 months on the pistol, the M-4 and the 14 inch 870 shotgun to maintain boat crew status.

Response by PO1 Thomas McMurray made Apr 5 at 2022 10:56 PM

2022-04-05T22:56:37-04:00

Everyone in the Coast Guard that does boat duty as a Boarding Officer must qualify on the CQB courses twice yearly. They must qualify on the basic courses for pistol and rifle to graduate up to the combat courses. We have a ribbon for pistol and rifle and anybody passing the basic gets the plain ribbon, Sharpshooter gets an "S" to add to it and anybody qualifying as Expert gets the letter "E" to add.
Officers in the Coast Guard can be assigned to Boarding Officer in charge of 6 man "LEDET" ( Law E nforcement Detachments") on Naval ships around the world to lead their teams on boarding suspicious foreign shipping. Besides the requals on pistol and rifle they must qualify on the 14 inch mdl 870 shotgun and once yearly on the M-60.

Response by MAJ Shawn Fox made Apr 6 at 2022 5:55 AM

2022-04-06T05:55:42-04:00

Been many, many years now (70s, 80s, 90s), but I recall wearing my rifle & pistol qualification badges. The others... machine gun, hand grenade, etc... no.

Response by CW2 Gale Dorman made Apr 6 at 2022 9:19 AM

2022-04-06T09:19:16-04:00

Before I became a Warrant Officer in the Army, I was an enlisted Sgt First Class. I wore my medals with pride and honor. Never did I have any officer or enlisted tell me that I could not wear or I should not wear! I also checked the regulations when I wore my uniform and retired in 1994. If one does not want to wear their medals they have the right to not wear them. Their are possibly many reasons for each individual for wearing or not wearing those items they that can be displayed on the uniform. Be it a Recruiting Badge or the Medal of Honor. Their are choices in this world and in the service and not every one will agree with those choices. Unless the regulations mandates that something is to be worn that choice is one for the individual! Yes I chose to wear my awards, I earned them, they meant much to me and I am very proud to have been given the honor to wear them as my choice as should all military members.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2022 10:55 AM

2022-04-06T10:55:08-04:00

It's just culture. I think it started with a CPT or MAJ that couldn't qualify.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Apr 6 at 2022 7:22 PM

2022-04-06T19:22:59-04:00

Whether Or Not Any Of Us Wore Our Badges, It Changes Nothing.
When I Had But 2 Stripes,
I Had 2 Rows Of Badges & Ribbons,
I looked Absolutely STUPID, So I Only Wore 3..
Appeared Far More Likely For Me To Have The 3.
I Almost Made General Eisenhower Look Bad

Response by MAJ Kevin Mason made Apr 6 at 2022 7:50 PM

2022-04-06T19:50:22-04:00

It depends. If you look at former commanders photos in various HQs you will notice back in the 40s and 50s many Cols and LTCs wore them; in some cases it resembled a ‘ladder’ with all the bars.

I had the honor of commanding two infantry companies. I valued marksmanship highly and to impress that value on our soldiers, I and the LTs would wear our marksmanship badges; in other assignments I did not.

The photo is a past 9th Infantry Regimental Commander with his ladder of Marksmanship bars

Response by Cpl Ryan Lowe made Apr 6 at 2022 10:36 PM

2022-04-06T22:36:45-04:00

They don’t wear it because they suck at shooting. Simple as that.

Response by PO3 Terry Miller made Apr 8 at 2022 5:34 PM

2022-04-08T17:34:09-04:00

I can't speak to other branches, but the only officer I have known who had actually received the Expert Ribbons for rifle and pistol proudly wore them both. He retired as a Rear Admiral. They are not separate from the ribbon rack as in the Army.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Apr 12 at 2022 12:16 AM

2022-04-12T00:16:24-04:00

There is an obvious difference between the Army and the Marines and the Navy. I am not sure what it is or why in the Navy we wear our Medals and Ribbons more but that is what happens from E-1 to CNO. If we earn it we wear it.

As CW3 Harvey K. stated, in the Marines everyone is a rifleman. Therefore everyone is going to wear his/her qualification badges.

Response by CPT Ray Doeksen made Apr 30 at 2022 1:09 PM

2022-04-30T13:09:53-04:00

They’re more of a post-war peacetime Army award and I’m indifferent to them on officers uniforms

Response by SSG Stewart Ritchey made May 1 at 2022 5:27 PM

2022-05-01T17:27:21-04:00

Optional. Go with local culture.

Response by TSgt Andrew Harper made May 8 at 2022 12:41 AM

2022-05-08T00:41:28-04:00

If you earn them, wear them, pretty simple.

Response by MSgt George Murray made May 14 at 2022 6:17 AM

2022-05-14T06:17:33-04:00

I had one when I spent two years in the Army and then when I went back to the Air Force I prequalified on the M16. My stepson who is in the Air Force used to be E7 and is now a Captain wears his. I'm not sure on the regulation regarding but believe it's an individual thing.

Response by PO1 Lawrence Silk made May 14 at 2022 9:02 PM

2022-05-14T21:02:13-04:00

My experience as a small arms instructor and range safety officer is that most of the officers could not hit the broadside of a barn.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made May 14 at 2022 10:30 PM

2022-05-14T22:30:57-04:00

Have you been around when they qualified lol

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made May 15 at 2022 12:35 PM

2022-05-15T12:35:58-04:00

Because most are too dumb to train. Lol

Response by SFC Eddy Weezar made May 15 at 2022 10:25 PM

2022-05-15T22:25:40-04:00

Response by LtCol Barry Fetzer made May 16 at 2022 2:31 PM

2022-05-16T14:31:28-04:00

Marine officers are proud to wear marksmanship badges, always do, and are almost embarrassed if they're not sporting "expert" pistol and rifle badges on their "Alpha" uniform jacket. It may be that US Army officers do not generally wear them, but US Marine officers always do. The old saying that Marines quote often, "Every Marine's a rifleman" and the Marines' shooting heritage is partly the reason why this is so.

Response by COL Einzel Ganger made May 16 at 2022 5:27 PM

2022-05-16T17:27:48-04:00

All this word salad about collective vs individual Soldier responsibility is BS. An Officer must master their profession of arms. An Officer leads by example. That includes being an expert marksman. AND so all that other stuff. Officer generally breath a sigh of relief about not wearing the marksmanship badge, because they can’t shoot expert… because they don’t train to shoot expert. Tell me how much respect an Officer earns as a mediocre APFT performer, or who falls out on a run.
In my Battalion, every Officer wore what they earned. They showed all Soldiers what their current competency in their shooting craft is. It’s a perishable skill.
Enough of this weasely rationalization. Sounds sage, but if you gotta talk so much to explain it…probably hiding the obvious.

Response by COL Einzel Ganger made May 16 at 2022 5:40 PM

2022-05-16T17:40:06-04:00

I noticed that one officer who made a lengthy “logic” explanation about the US Army Marksmanship badges being absent from most Officer uniforms, is depicted wearing a Foreign award over his right breast uniform pocket. That folks, is the German Sports Badge. The fifth requirement among the seven is Marksmanship. To earn the gold badge, you must demonstrate EXPERT MARKSMANSHIP PROFICIENCY.
I guess the US Army Marksmanship badge is either not cool enough, or someone couldn’t shoot expert.

Response by COL Einzel Ganger made May 22 at 2022 2:05 PM

2022-05-22T14:05:08-04:00

I do believe both my CSM & myself would like my own ass and the asses of any officers not wearing their marksmanship badges. Expert rifle & pistol is on you as an officer. Go be the example. All this other crap is word salad by substandard marksman.

Response by Jack Couch made Jul 1 at 2022 4:05 PM

2022-07-01T16:05:36-04:00

As a never served civilian, I have two questions on this topic. First, isn’t there a limit to the number of badges, etc., an officer can wear on his uniform, and a hierarchy of badges or tabs that determines what they wear?

Second, do officers these days still carry only sidearms in combat?

Thanks for tolerating my ignorance.

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Jul 10 at 2022 2:45 PM

2022-07-10T14:45:01-04:00

You earned it. You wear it if you want.
Unless there's a regulation saying otherwise.

Response by 1SG Michael Brooks made Jul 10 at 2022 6:26 PM

2022-07-10T18:26:19-04:00

Because many Qualify with a pencil , rather the assigned weapon. I ran many a range, saw some stuff. And yes I stay in Holiday Inn Express.

Response by LtCol Bruce Janis made Aug 3 at 2022 10:42 PM

2022-08-03T22:42:05-04:00

Before I was in the ARNG, I was a Marine Captain. Marine officers always wore marksmanship badges when possible, as did all Marines. I continued while in the Guard. Earned them and wore them…

Response by COL Hugh Stirts made Aug 6 at 2022 2:22 PM

2022-08-06T14:22:42-04:00

Because we can't shoot??

Response by COL Hugh Stirts made Aug 6 at 2022 2:23 PM

2022-08-06T14:23:43-04:00

Because we cant shoot ?

Response by LtCol Don Kaag made Aug 7 at 2022 1:20 PM

2022-08-07T13:20:31-04:00

Officers of Marines wear their marksmanship badges.

Response by LTC George Monsson made Aug 8 at 2022 6:46 PM

2022-08-08T18:46:44-04:00

During my service, active and reserve, (1960s-90s), Infantry and Field Artillery units, I always wore my marksmanship badges along with other awards on my greens. Why would you not? Maybe in some units there may be a culture thing about not wearing certain awards depending on rank but that is new to me. this may be similar to the culture in the Infantry in Viet Nam that you didn't put in for a Purple Heart unless your injury was serious enough to require a medevac. This was a reaction to a couple officers at the Division TOC who, while on duty, were across the road drinking at the Officers' Club and when there was a rocket attack had to crawl back to the TOC across a gravel road, tearing up their knees for which they got Purple Hearts. We grunts in the bush were pretty unsympathetic.

Response by Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. made Aug 8 at 2022 11:46 PM

2022-08-08T23:46:13-04:00

All Marines were marksmanship badges for Pistol and Rifle qualification on their blouses.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 9 at 2022 5:22 PM

2022-08-09T17:22:43-04:00

Because they're ashamed of scoring "Marksman".

Response by SPC Ed Kittle made Aug 10 at 2022 7:14 AM

2022-08-10T07:14:36-04:00

It would make a good target to aim at.

Response by SPC Ed Kittle made Aug 10 at 2022 7:15 AM

2022-08-10T07:15:32-04:00

it would make a good target to aim at. saw 1 officer in vietnam that was worth around

Response by SSG Michael Schneider made Aug 10 at 2022 8:30 PM

2022-08-10T20:30:12-04:00

Not personally aware of the reason why not but, do know that it is not universal. My Father started his career as a EM, fought in WWII and then in Korea. In early 1951 he was given a 'Battlefield Commission'. Thereafter he wore not only his Marksmanship Badge but, his Good Conduct Medal as well, until he retired as a Major in 1966.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Aug 10 at 2022 11:40 PM

2022-08-10T23:40:39-04:00

It's an interesting question and I too have heard the "officers are supposed to be expert with their weapons" so no point displaying it. I never did wear mine on my uniform but it was a special point of pride for me every time I ran a range and waited to till all my guys had gone through and then proceed to shoot 40 out of 40 while they all watched. My small way of dispelling rumors that we all can't shoot

Response by Capt Mark Miller made Aug 12 at 2022 1:10 AM

2022-08-12T01:10:36-04:00

If you earn it, you wear it. My experience is that if an Officer is a good shot and you go into tactical situations, it gives the troops some confidence that if the sh-t really hits the fan, there is an extra decent marksman to help out.

Response by COL Andrew Burns made Aug 13 at 2022 7:56 AM

2022-08-13T07:56:04-04:00

I was always told that officers were assumed to be experts. However, the EIC (Excellence In Competition) Awards which are for the top 10% in either Pistol and Rifle are the exception. The President’s One Hundred is the highest Tab, higher than SF and Ranger Tabs.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Sep 19 at 2022 1:47 AM

2022-09-19T01:47:15-04:00

Short answer? Cause most can't shoot wirth a damn. CNN proved that

Response by A1C John Weiss made Sep 30 at 2022 11:34 AM

2022-09-30T11:34:45-04:00

My thoughts on this topic are as an Air Force enlisted E-3 Security Police K-9 officer. I would prefer that the officers I served under be at least proficient with the basic weapons of our career field. And while I realize that Officers rotate in and out of career fields I'd sure like to know that when the shit hits the fan my leadership can and will be proficient with a weapon. Because the lessons learned in Vietnam is when it gets really nasty for Air Base defense everyone including Officers better be able to defend the base as well as themselves.

Response by SPC Stan Modjesky made Oct 3 at 2022 10:02 AM

2022-10-03T10:02:12-04:00

I haven't read every last comment here, so this may be redundant... every time I went to the range to qualify, it was required that there be a commissioned officer in charge of the range. That being true, officers should, in theory, be more qualified than enlisted troops. As a civilian, I am certified by NRA as a marksmanship trainer, but would need additional credentials to be a Range Officer. Is it possible that civilian marksmanship is more organic than military marksmanship? After 6 years as a contractor serving on an honor guard, I suspect so. Even though other HG members were current National Guardsmen (some with multiple deployments) I can think of only two who showed any sense of muzzle and trigger discipline. As I contractor, I had no authority even to mention this, except to the unit leader.

Response by LTC Carlene Salazar made Oct 31 at 2022 12:30 AM

2022-10-31T00:30:36-04:00

As a "Mustang" going from enlisted to officer, I think it's a good idea to wear them. Any officer should show that he or she can do as well or better than an enlisted, or simply show they are willing to do so. (not everyone can qualify expert). It's called leadership. I always wondered why the officers in my units didn't wear them. My fault for not checking the regs and taking the word of those above me in rank.

Response by MSG Bob S made Oct 31 at 2022 1:04 AM

2022-10-31T01:04:08-04:00

I suspect that is because outside of Special Operations most officers couldn’t shoot a garage door even if they were standing in front of the house.

Response by LTC Martin Glynn made Nov 3 at 2022 5:57 PM

2022-11-03T17:57:12-04:00

I had the same initial impression. When I was enlisted everyone wore marksmanship badges with at least the Rifle and Grenade hangers, but when I reported to the MI Officer Basic Course, none of the officers were wearing marksmanship badges, so I didn’t either.

That changed when I was serving in the 82nd Airborne Division. That’s where I learned that all of the officers in the 75th Ranger Regiment wore marksmanship badges, and they had better be Expert level. There’s a lot of “cross-pollination” between the 75th, the 82nd, and the 173rd, so a lot of Infantry officers in the 82nd wore their marksmanship badges. That’s when I decided to do the same, and I always wore my marksmanship badge after that. The only exception was when I was getting an official DA photo made; in that case , you don’t want to do anything that may stand out as unusual.

Response by PO3 Tamara LeMay made Nov 9 at 2022 10:23 PM

2022-11-09T22:23:23-05:00

Yes! I think officers should wear marksmanship badges...

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Dec 3 at 2022 11:12 AM

2022-12-03T11:12:25-05:00

When I shot on a state team in the Guard I had officers ask me how they could earn an EIC badge. One officer actually told me he wanted an EIC because with orders no one could say bunk about him wearing it.

Response by TSgt Michael Brandt made Dec 4 at 2022 1:21 PM

2022-12-04T13:21:32-05:00

Officers in the Air Force would wear them but only if they achieve the high scores on their shooting

Response by SP6 Michael Butterworth made Dec 5 at 2022 8:09 AM

2022-12-05T08:09:58-05:00

After 23 years of service 4 years as a firefighter,4 years as a ROMAD pre terminal air controller, and 15 years in the Army my senior leadership all carried a long gun. Most of our missions would be three vehicles 10-12 personnel or convoy’s.
In my second career one was good but that was all we had. Now one is good two is better and bring you friends for more help.

Response by Sgt Ed Bowers made Jan 11 at 2023 8:54 AM

2023-01-11T08:54:51-05:00

I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps. Just about every officer I served with wore whatever shooting badge he or she earned. A few in the Air Wings did not but that was rare. Since every Marine, regardless of rank, is a rifleman then those shooting badges become very important.

Response by SN Russell Helberg made Jan 16 at 2023 5:23 PM

2023-01-16T17:23:30-05:00

makes sence, your the first one a sniper will look for

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2023 12:49 AM

2023-01-17T00:49:36-05:00

It’s also tradition (or at least it was) for officers not to wear their ribbon rack in class B’s whereas enlisted did. Officers would just wear nameplates and skill badges like airborne/air assault. Always thought it was strange, but officers are kind of off anyway lol.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Jan 22 at 2023 8:59 AM

2023-01-22T08:59:22-05:00

Captain, I suppose it depends on the service. Officers from the Coast Guard, Navy, and Marine Corps all wear their marksmanship ribbons/Medals depending on the uniform. I would suspect Army Special Forces would wear them full-time also. One is not required to wear them, but it is an accomplishment.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Jan 27 at 2023 10:10 PM

2023-01-27T22:10:47-05:00

Officers wearing marksmanship awards... More 'pizza boxes' than Dominoes, Little Caesars and Pizza Hut combined! LOL

Response by SP5 Timothy Cooper made Feb 12 at 2023 8:09 PM

2023-02-12T20:09:12-05:00

Most can not hit the side of a barn if in side it. LOL No I have seen officers wearing them but most have been combat officers.

Response by Maj Jarrod Graham made Feb 15 at 2023 9:28 PM

2023-02-15T21:28:56-05:00

Even though I have hung up the uniform for over a year, they are still there.

Response by COL Carl Jensen made Feb 19 at 2023 2:48 PM

2023-02-19T14:48:27-05:00

LOL, I bolo'ed in Basic, so this covers me for not wearing it. It wasn't my fault, it was 5365601's. towards the end 5555333 saved the day. That was the fall of 63, it was either a great M-1 or Sgt Glass's pencil. Best advise from that Korea Vet; "Make yourself comfortable, rest the rifle on the sand bag for steady shots. When they come charging at you, you will resort to it anyway." When I left the service I volunteered to join the Guard and USAR, went to OCS and when I returned to my assigned unit I wore the expert badge. The other officers said they don't wear them because we were expected to be experts. LOL+, That leads to my GCM ribbon, during an inspection in the guard I was asked by a Major what is that medal for? (Along with the NDM one.) All the short tours and AFT's later I never wore Marksman medals. I qualified and familiarized with 4 weapons as part of training. They are only on paper. and yes I followed Sgt Glass's advice when on the rifle range.

Response by SPC Steven Cook made Feb 19 at 2023 9:04 PM

2023-02-19T21:04:17-05:00

My question is why a college graduate with a degree in studying rocks becomes an officer in a combat m. o.s.

Response by CAPT Christopher Kule made Feb 22 at 2023 6:31 PM

2023-02-22T18:31:01-05:00

Because they don't want to embarrass their juniors.... who mainly never served.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Feb 28 at 2023 4:17 PM

2023-02-28T16:17:06-05:00

Officers are in general qualified in many areas where weapons are demanded. If we wore every qualification badge we would look like the Korean officers. Officers are to create morale and directions with emphasis on weapons within his specific areas of command and rely upon NCO's to coordiante a level of qualification in weapons used.

Response by SPC Paul Gooch made Apr 14 at 2023 10:02 PM

2023-04-14T22:02:54-04:00

I started hunting and fishing when I was 10 years old. I cherished those years. That experience pretty much made me an expert outdoorsman and expert marksman.
Being the Commander's Driver and him understanding my test scores, background and experience, made him quite comfortable with me at his side during stressful times. He carried a 45, we never fired a bullet, never had to, but we still helped bring the Berlin Wall down.
Lots of hand to hand fighting, mind to mind stuff. We very rarely had to dress up and show off

Response by Col Ronald E Gionta made May 24 at 2023 7:30 PM

2023-05-24T19:30:30-04:00

In the Air Force, AFR and ANG, Officers do wear the Marksmanship award. It is a ribbon added to the rack.

Response by Col Ronald E Gionta made May 24 at 2023 7:32 PM

2023-05-24T19:32:11-04:00

Air Force and Air Reserve Component Officers do wear the Marksmanship Award. It is a ribbon added to their rack.

Response by CW3 James Ives made May 25 at 2023 12:12 AM

2023-05-25T00:12:03-04:00

I was an Officer, and I wore my marksmanship badges. I earned them and was proud of my "Expert Badge. Was also the Marksmanship range Officer.

Response by MAJ Robert Wilson made May 25 at 2023 10:10 PM

2023-05-25T22:10:38-04:00

I never wore my marksmanship badges once I became an officer. Tac Officers during OCS told us that it is improper to wear them. Most officers minus OCS officers are not taught marksmanship and if they have some weapons training, it's basic if any. Definitely not what is taught at basic training. All of my 27 years in the Army, I qualified expert and was assigned as a weapon instructor after attend weapons and sniper school. Enough about my qualifications.
Now to your question, Most officers that I taught, both in the classroom and right beside them on the range, taught me that is would be an embarrassment if they wore the badges. I have had them turn their heads away right before they pull the trigger to shacking so much they couldn't hit the target. I have also taught officers that are very good shots. I believe they were never trained properly in any school. I know from attending a combat arms Officer Basic Training, we never went to the range. It has been stated the officers only wear pistols and that is a bunch of BS! I had to become a commander before I was issued a pistol. During my deployments I saw the same results about officer's qualifications. I am glad they issued both a rifle and pistol on deployments and stayed away from those officers.
It all goes back to officers DO NOT get enough marksmanship training. Most units do not get enough ammunition for everyone to qualify every 6 months and officers often say that their soldiers need to training. That's where 'Qualification by Pencil" came about. It is bullshit for anyone to think the officers that can shot quite well can't do their 'management' job!
From reading the remarks left, you can tell who was a REMF and never had to shoot their weapon in combat to others, combat arms personnel who has to rely on their weapon to keep them alive!

Response by MAJ Robert Wilson made May 25 at 2023 10:10 PM

2023-05-25T22:10:44-04:00

I never wore my marksmanship badges once I became an officer. Tac Officers during OCS told us that it is improper to wear them. Most officers minus OCS officers are not taught marksmanship and if they have some weapons training, it's basic if any. Definitely not what is taught at basic training. All of my 27 years in the Army, I qualified expert and was assigned as a weapon instructor after attend weapons and sniper school. Enough about my qualifications.
Now to your question, Most officers that I taught, both in the classroom and right beside them on the range, taught me that is would be an embarrassment if they wore the badges. I have had them turn their heads away right before they pull the trigger to shacking so much they couldn't hit the target. I have also taught officers that are very good shots. I believe they were never trained properly in any school. I know from attending a combat arms Officer Basic Training, we never went to the range. It has been stated the officers only wear pistols and that is a bunch of BS! I had to become a commander before I was issued a pistol. During my deployments I saw the same results about officer's qualifications. I am glad they issued both a rifle and pistol on deployments and stayed away from those officers.
I always thought that marksmanship badges and ribbons/medals were individual awards and the person who was awarded them decide if they want to wear them or not.
It all goes back to officers DO NOT get enough marksmanship training. Most units do not get enough ammunition for everyone to qualify every 6 months and officers often say that their soldiers need to training. That's where 'Qualification by Pencil" came about. It is bullshit for anyone to think the officers that can shot quite well can't do their 'management' job!
From reading the remarks left, you can tell who was a REMF and never had to shoot their weapon in combat to others, combat arms personnel who has to rely on their weapon to keep them alive!

Response by SSG Don Maggart made May 26 at 2023 10:20 AM

2023-05-26T10:20:24-04:00

Cause Under Pressure they Couldn't hit a Bull.in Butt with a Barn Door.... 22B Out

Response by COL Al Cooney made May 27 at 2023 10:50 PM

2023-05-27T22:50:29-04:00

Interesting badges, Ranger Tab without a parachute badge. I thought that changed in the 80's

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made May 28 at 2023 8:00 AM

2023-05-28T08:00:06-04:00

I wore the expert rifle and pistol ribbons I had earned in the army when I became an officer in the navy. (Not allowed to wear the badges in the navy; there is a reg against that) Not wearing them must be an army thing.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Moody made May 28 at 2023 4:14 PM

2023-05-28T16:14:07-04:00

No,,, Do they really need to shoot?/ lol...

Response by LTC David Howard made May 28 at 2023 5:25 PM

2023-05-28T17:25:38-04:00

I've been retired for a long time, but I recall some officers wearing marksmanship badges on their Class A's, but they were the exception. I never gave it a moment's thought.

Response by LTC David Howard made May 28 at 2023 5:26 PM

2023-05-28T17:26:45-04:00

I've been retired for a long time, but I recall some officers wearing marksmanship badges on their Class A's, but they were the exception. I never gave it a moment's thought.

Response by SSG Robert Pratt made May 28 at 2023 6:43 PM

2023-05-28T18:43:04-04:00

Because they're experts in everything? Just joking!

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made May 28 at 2023 8:13 PM

2023-05-28T20:13:08-04:00

Can't figure out how the pin-thing works? Here's my question: during 'Nam, why did some EM have brassards/bars that stated the weapon that they'd qualified on specifically: not 'rifle' but 'M-14' or 'M-16", etc? I did too, but only got 'Rifle'.
My late dad wore two marksmanship badges in WWII, one Expert with 'Rifle' and one Sharpshooter, with 'Carbine'. He was in the invasion of Okinawa, a three-stripe/two rocker Tech SGt, with XXIII Corps, X Army.

Response by LtCol Matthew Rajkovich made May 30 at 2023 4:11 PM

2023-05-30T16:11:24-04:00

Simply put; officers DO regularly wear marksmanship badges. The OP left out the distinction that this is an “Army thing”. I would bet that it's primarily a 'cultural' thing. Army leadership prefers certain optics regarding the appearance of their officers. The uniform and how it is worn sends a non-verbal message to those who view it. "Big Army" has their reasons. (But talk to 5 people and you might get 10 different opinions.)

I can imagine or speculate a couple different reasons for it, but I personally hold the opinion that the badges should be worn for at least two reasons.
1) To display that you are qualified to handle a weapon (probably the most basic of military skills).
2) Because you'd have it on display for the world to see; it creates an incentive to be more than just competent in that skill.

Response by SN Russell Helberg made Jun 7 at 2023 1:50 PM

2023-06-07T13:50:35-04:00

well i see a CIB medal and thats all you really need---

Response by SN Russell Helberg made Jun 7 at 2023 1:51 PM

2023-06-07T13:51:45-04:00

and i see ranger, that to is enough--

Response by MAJ Kevin Mason made Jun 28 at 2023 9:32 PM

2023-06-28T21:32:19-04:00

I only wore marksmanship badges when I led platoons or companies. I wore them because I wanted to stress the importance of marksmanship to the Soldiers. Otherwise I didn’t. If you look at past commanders pictures in command buildings a lot of officers from the late 1940s thru 1950s you’ll many wore theirs.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2023 4:38 PM

2023-07-07T16:38:26-04:00

The reason i was given as i am a Mustang, is that as an officer, i am supposed to be expert in everything. It is also up to an officer, to uplift, mentor, and guide the enlisted to be, know , do great things. It does not do one well to out shine those that we are trying to guide or the reverse for that matter, to be shown that we are wanting. While i shoot expert in the weapon systems that i am authorized in, its not that important that i show it. If i am required that i am on the line, shooting the enemy, we are truly and absolutely FUBAR’d.

Response by MAJ Albert McCaig made Jul 8 at 2023 9:05 AM

2023-07-08T09:05:54-04:00

Could be, too many officers are not as technically proficient as they should be. I earned expert in rifle, pistol, tank weapons, machine gun, and hand grenade. I wore all the bars on my badge. That told the troops their commander knew what he was talking about when I said, “Let’s go train.” Lead from the front, especially in combat arms.

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Jul 8 at 2023 10:40 PM

2023-07-08T22:40:42-04:00

In the AF you never even get to fire a M16 let alone qualify. You shoot 50 rounds from a 38 and that is the extent of your marksmanship training. Even flying combat mission hand guns are optional

Response by SGT Drue Rockwell made Jul 10 at 2023 5:41 PM

2023-07-10T17:41:13-04:00

This reminds me of the ceremonial uniforms of TOG. If you check our ceremonial uniforms, we don't wear our marksmanship badges, either. There are several parallels between TOG and the way officers do things. I'm always a fan of at least one uniform showing the bread and butter of our skills, though.

Response by CPT Dr Elizabeth Pepe made Jul 12 at 2023 11:41 AM

2023-07-12T11:41:25-04:00

FINALLY... after 30 years, I was sent my Expert Marksman (combat pistol) badge. You may scoff at me, but as a female captain in the Medical Corps it meant a lot to me. When I was active duty, females were not allowed in any combat positions and so I was denied the right to go to any combat-oriented school. To top it off I am (and was then) a physician. So the general attitude was "you're a girl, and a doctor. You don't need to go to these schools". The attitude should have been "no one takes the Medical Corps seriously in the military. You should go to these schools and set them straight."
They wouldn't even allow me to go to the Expert Field Medical school to get the EFMB.

Response by 1stLt David Meyers made Jul 16 at 2023 10:35 AM

2023-07-16T10:35:25-04:00

All the Marines I knew wore them, especially pistols.

Response by LTC Ernest Edge made Jul 16 at 2023 7:06 PM

2023-07-16T19:06:03-04:00

I never wore mine except for when I was a cadet. It was definitely culture that stopped me once I was commissioned. That, and that I was told by my commander that officers do not wear them.

However, my expert badges are proudly displayed in my shadow box now that I’m retired.

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Jul 21 at 2023 9:40 AM

2023-07-21T09:40:45-04:00

most likely because they have problems identifying the part of the weapon that they should hold on to

Response by Col Robert Lucania made Aug 14 at 2023 5:10 AM

2023-08-14T05:10:55-04:00

I earned the marksmanship ribbon in enlisted Air Force Security Forces training. I was authorized and proud to wear it throughout my career and in retirement when wearing uniform at special functions. I also fired 9mm as a medical officer giving me a chance to earn the ribbon.

Response by SPC Donald Donovan made Aug 16 at 2023 9:06 PM

2023-08-16T21:06:35-04:00

This has been covered before. There is nothing in Army Regulations that prohibit it. Marine Officers wear them, with pride, I might add.

Response by 1st Lt James Lipski made Aug 20 at 2023 10:12 AM

2023-08-20T10:12:11-04:00

In the Air Force I got my marksmanship ribbon and had no issue wearing it. I earned it. I displayed it.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Aug 20 at 2023 8:34 PM

2023-08-20T20:34:17-04:00

I'm just spitballing it. But, don't officer's generally qualify on the 45 or 9mm side arms. Just my two cents

Response by SA Clifford Junior made Aug 21 at 2023 4:57 PM

2023-08-21T16:57:43-04:00

Well if they're not required to or if it isn't mandatory why should they rock the boat .

Response by CPT John Green made Aug 23 at 2023 10:35 AM

2023-08-23T10:35:21-04:00

When I became an officer I also took mine off. Once in a while Id see an O wearing theres but never cared. Personally I wished Officers would wear there marksmanship badge but I can easily see how anything less than Expert would detract from an officers credibility. Its bad enough when I was in a DA photo could be used against you if you looked bad. I volunteer with the MDNG and sometimes I see guard guys/gals wearing them but very few.

Response by SGT Shawn Coulter made Aug 24 at 2023 12:58 AM

2023-08-24T00:58:45-04:00

Not always true officers in a mortar plt of any size have no clue so direction and all that an officer is supposed to provide is done by the highest ranking nco no matter the rank called pltsgt

Response by SGT Gabe Dickson made Aug 26 at 2023 5:31 PM

2023-08-26T17:31:39-04:00

My CO in Germany had a Tab for being one of the 100 best marksman.

Response by SGT Gifford Allaire made Aug 26 at 2023 6:27 PM

2023-08-26T18:27:08-04:00

I wasn't an officer, but I did wear all my qualifications; I earned every one from the M2 to pistol and most everything in between. If I didn't qualify as at least sharpshooter I practiced as much as I could to do better next time. To me, everyone needs to know how to use as many weapons effectively as that's the basics.

Response by SGT Bill Braniff made Aug 27 at 2023 7:49 PM

2023-08-27T19:49:42-04:00

I am a Vietnam Veteran and I have never seen any officer wearing weapon badges. So it has been a part of tge officer badges. I’ll keep an eye on WWI and II Veterans uniforms.

Response by 1SG Dave Brown made Sep 5 at 2023 4:53 PM

2023-09-05T16:53:40-04:00

The ONLY reason is that too many of the senior officers and West Pointers would be embarrassed not to have it. As an officer who was an expert marksman, I hated that "rule." By the way, it is strictly enforced by the Army chain of command, whether regulation or not.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2023 3:25 AM

2023-09-23T03:25:06-04:00

I absolutely am under the methodology that officers should wear their marksmanship badge. I agree with the domains of responsibility between NCOs and Officers. That's how it's always been. I do get into the grey area a little where PSGs are also responsible hand in hand for the collective tng along side their Platoon Leader, 1SG with the CDR, and so forth. But regardless, yes, we are masters at the technical side of our job which often correlates down to individual level stuff.

However, based off of the methodology of officers are expected to be experts so don't wear badges, and the badge they choose is a marksmanship badge of all things, then why do Infantry officers wear Ranger tabs when it's expected of them to be Ranger qualified? Kind of an "unwritten rule" in the Infantry, right? Yet I see hundreds of proudly worn Ranger tabs (as they should be worn). In my experiences at qualification ranges, a number of officers actually do NOT qualify expert because of the mindset "if I'm firing my weapon then something is wrong." I think it boils down to being a professional. If I'm expecting my Soldiers to qualify expert, then I will shoot until my fingers bleed to get expert. If my Soldiers see me with an expert badge, they know that I'm an expert, and its not assumed. It's a sense of pride and shows that your not "above" wearing a simple qualification badge because of being an officer. I'd go even a step further and say since we are NCOs, it is actually 1000% expected that we are experts at the individual tasks, so why would we wear the qualification badge?

Just my opinion. I don't think any rank is above wearing badges that they are authorized.

Response by SSG James Bradshaw made Sep 23 at 2023 6:09 AM

2023-09-23T06:09:35-04:00

I have never thought about that! Great point! I was a MP, 95B3V5H and I don’t think that I ever had saw an officer with marksmanship badges either.
Correction, I do remember a time when I saw a female officer wearing her marksmanship badges on the Class A uniform. And when she and another male officer were them again. I was stationed at Ft Moore (Ft Benning) back in 1987-1989. She was assigned to our 988th MP Company there. But after that, I didn’t remember seeing any other officers wearing them in Class A’s.

Response by TSgt Andrew Harper made Oct 22 at 2023 1:03 AM

2023-10-22T01:03:43-04:00

Sure, why not? Earn it, then wear it. Inspire the young troops.

Response by SGT John Overby made Nov 5 at 2023 5:27 PM

2023-11-05T17:27:46-05:00

Who would want a CO, Platoon Leader, or a anything O that could not hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle. Show me you can shoot, then you can command me. We aren't there for a party, are we? I wasn't that proud of my Marksman M-14 qualifying, but threw my shoulders back over my Expert M-16 qualifying. Officers should have to wear all identifiers like everyone else!

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Nov 5 at 2023 7:18 PM

2023-11-05T19:18:09-05:00

Navy Officers wore them when I was in. They qualify too at the same time.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made Nov 5 at 2023 8:21 PM

2023-11-05T20:21:45-05:00

Who the hell cares?

Response by LCpl Jason Ball made Nov 13 at 2023 2:28 PM

2023-11-13T14:28:37-05:00

Because they can't shoot well enough to earn one

Response by Bud Bert made Nov 13 at 2023 11:58 PM

2023-11-13T23:58:13-05:00

Chaplains don't usually earn and wear marksmanship badges. AFAIK only the Navy precludes this: Secretary of the Navy Instruction 1730.7E, Religious Ministry within the Department of the Navy, states, “Chaplains are non-combatants. They cannot bear arms or seek weapons training in connection with their military duties nor will they seek weapons or warfare qualifications.”

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Nov 17 at 2023 6:33 AM

2023-11-17T06:33:04-05:00

I earned the M16 and .45 cal expert badges while in the Army and those badges transferred over to the Navy, but there were no marksmanship badges; the Navy wears ribbons/medals instead. Always wore them as a Naval Officer. There weren't very many of us that were qualified, officer or enlisted.

Response by MAJ Galloway Gaskins made Dec 15 at 2023 9:39 PM

2023-12-15T21:39:57-05:00

I don't think it should be a requirement for officer's. I like that it was an option. I saw officer's that wore their marksmanship badge, but Many didn't. I wore my marksmanship badge when I was a 2Lt and 1Lt. Mainly because I didn't have didn't much else to wear on my uniform. As soon as i received other badges I stopped wearing it.

Response by 1LT Michael Warner-Burke made Dec 17 at 2023 9:44 AM

2023-12-17T09:44:56-05:00

As an infantry officer, I was proud of my rifle and machine gun badges. Many of the awards that the Army gave me were for showing up, but the marksman badges and my Ranger tab were hard earned and I was proud to wear them.

Response by LTC Stuart Knade made Dec 19 at 2023 8:50 PM

2023-12-19T20:50:00-05:00

Yes, they should, but . . . Early in my 32 commissioned years, starting as a mechanized rifle platoon leader, it was explained to me that officers did not wear marksmanship qualification badges on their dress duds. I could never find any rule or reg saying that or why. The explanation I was given was that as a matter of custom officers were expected to be proficient on all weapons under their command so the badge was irrelevant. It sounded like BS to me, but I went along and never wore them, even though I consistently qualified expert on every weapon under my command for which there was such a badge. I always suspected that the real reason was that the higher ranking officers never showed up on a range for practice or qualification, mainly because they had a bunch of other stuff to take care of that would not get done if they spent an entire day going through the qualification process, which as I progressed in rank I realized was very true. But, that meant the range cards for senior officers and very senior NCOs were typically "pencil whipped" to show that they had indeed qualified on their assigned weapon, which meant that they couldn't wear any badge without committing yet another UCMJ offense. Oh yes, as a 2LT range OIC it was demanded that I look the other way while that pencil whipping was going on, and when I didn't go along I got called on the carpet.

SIDE NOTE: there is or was a policy in writing that allowed Army soldiers who earned the German "Schutzenschnur" (which I did) to accept the award, but said that only enliisted soldiers could wear them on their dress uniforms. So, mine was only ever displayed on a shelf in my office. Sigh.

In my later years as a senior JAG, I insisted that the officers working for me qualify for real every year, and to make that possible I supplied out of my pocket the weapons, ammunition and private range time they could practice with, since in the Army, so-called "office soldiers" in the reserve components were never given ammo or range time for practice. Officially, you were expected to show up on Q day and qualify without any practice, which anyone who knows anything about shooting knows is incredibly unrealistic.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2024 2:21 PM

2024-01-23T14:21:13-05:00

I think it’s based on tradition. Kind of like enlisted wearing ribbons on class B but officers only wear their AB AS wings if they have them. It’s just one of those us/them things between officers & the enlisted.

Response by MAJ Rob Kiser made Jan 24 at 2024 5:40 PM

2024-01-24T17:40:56-05:00

As a former NCO and officer, I had this come up often. I wore my marksmanship badges in both parts of my career, even though almost no other officers wore them. I was questioned just about every time I did. Had to quote regs to everyone from enlisted to colonels. My logic:
1. The uniform reg said wear it. At one point, 670-1 (although I could quote great parts of it at one time, I haven't read that one in a while) stated explicitly that everyone who meets the requirement should wear a marksmanship badge. In fact, every picture of an officer's uniform where a marksmanship badge would be appropriate showed one worn. How does an officer enforce any reg he doesn't follow himself?
2. An officer somewhere signed off on 670-1 before it was published. If it had acceptable to leave off the badge, it would have been easy enough to make that known in the reg itself.

Despite being proud to have served as an officer, I can also state with full authority that they can be pretty weird about some things.

Response by LCpl George Gocheff made Jan 27 at 2024 3:44 AM

2024-01-27T03:44:28-05:00

My experience in the corps is simply that officers are not trained, as we NCO's, to shoot worth a shit - just to give us shit! They're really good at the latter but not so much the former. Before I trained them, most of the time one was safer in front of an officer armed with a handgun than anywhere else.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 27 at 2024 1:48 PM

2024-01-27T13:48:06-05:00

Its a bizarre Army culture thing. Officers supposedly say it came from Britain
Officers as gentleman, not warriors. Stupid practice.

Response by CW5 Roger Jacobs made Jan 29 at 2024 1:27 AM

2024-01-29T01:27:14-05:00

Where are your wings Ranger?

Response by LTC J Williams made Feb 22 at 2024 12:06 PM

2024-02-22T12:06:37-05:00

I believe Army officers should wear marksmanship badges along with any and all other badges earned just like the Marine Corps officers. I've always worn mine throughout my career, and by the end, I have earned a little more than most.

Response by WO1 Michael Shackley made Mar 1 at 2024 10:47 AM

2024-03-01T10:47:52-05:00

I was a Marine Warrant Officer, and I wore mine (rifle expert, pistol sharpshooter) on my Class A's. I think this might be an Army thing.

Response by SFC Frank Quiroz made Apr 11 at 2024 3:26 PM

2024-04-11T15:26:22-04:00

Because they would probably shoot their foot off.

Response by CPT Earl George made Apr 12 at 2024 3:04 PM

2024-04-12T15:04:48-04:00

My brother served as an Army officer on active duty from Jan 64-Jan 66. His DD214 shows under awards- Expert rifle badge. I qualified with the M16 in 1971 and my DD214 does not show anything related to my rifle qualification

Response by CDR Jim M. made Apr 21 at 2024 12:58 PM

2024-04-21T12:58:24-04:00

Always wore mine, as a Navy officer. But then I shot expert with rifle and pistol and subsequently became the unit range master thanks to the US Marine Corps training as a youngster. I believe you lead by example.

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made May 1 at 2024 10:02 PM

2024-05-01T22:02:32-04:00

I don't remember ever seeing a Marine Officer in Dress Uniform without them on. One of my favorite things to do at formal functions was to let the Senior NCO's and Officers that I could help with raising their shooting scores if they didn't like wearing a lower ranked badge. I did Avionics most of the time, but I was also a Rifle and Pistol Coach for our less talented shooters at the range. Still love shooting today, just different models and calibers.